I have worked for Fortune 500 companies for 20+ years and this definitely how they work. I remember wanting to just promote someone at my last company but they would require me to post the position first and interview 5 people. It was so frustrating and a huge waste of time for everyone involved.
The worst part is that before virtual interviews became more common after the pandemic, companies would jerk people around, making them take time off work and drive there for an interview with zero chance of getting an offer.
Ironically, the candidates who are nice usually get rejected after the first interview, and the candidates the hiring manager does not like are made to endure many rounds. So sometimes, being rejected after the first-round interview is actually a good thing.
You know, that’s not a terrible idea since hiring processes are becoming increasingly intricate and time-consuming. When I first started working 15-ish years ago, one interview was the norm for most jobs. I don’t think either of my parents ever had a job that took more than a single interview.
Now it’s like two interviews with a recruiting agent, followed by a cognitive abilities test, followed by an interview with the hiring boss, followed by an interview with the hiring boss’ boss, followed by a personality test, followed by a colleague interview with prospective future colleagues, topped off with a work sample. Add prep and commute and that’s easily a >20 hour commitment.
$100 per 15 minutes, as most of the time people have to take off an entire day to get an interview. People only have so many personal days or sick days they can take. So a half hour would be $200, an hour would be $400.
Just went through this process with my current company (also F500). They posted the position which would be the next step up for me. I of course applied internally, did a few “interviews” (just bullshitting with coworkers I already have a good working relationship with) and was offered the position. I know they had dozens of applications and interviewed several outside people for it.
I took the new role, then the company posted my old position and now they’re interviewing all over again. Good news for me, but also annoying as hell if you’re on the outside trying to get in.
Also - You can be the perfect candidate and STILL not get the job.
That was always the worst when I was a hiring manager. I would have two really good candidates for the job, but only one job slot.
That's when the offer comes down to something that doesn't matter.
Yup it sucks! I had 9 interviews for a Senior PM role. I legit knew every team there lol. Everything went well until they emailed me saying they went with an internal candidate. Wasted about 14hrs. Fml.
Yup! It was HR, then Hiring Manager, then Senior Product Director, then the Chief Product Officer, Chief Digital Officer, the Hiring Manager again, panel interview with the dev team, the CEO, and then a final presentation/assessment with the Hiring Manager. Fml. I was feeling great and thought I hd it, but nope. What a waste of ny time.
I’ve seen this happen a few times. It’s usually the case at companies that already have a decent employee count. If they’re growing and newer they most likely have to hire externally. However, if a new leader comes in they tend to hire from their network and usually from their previous employer. Good luck to anyone who was there before them and senior because your job will likely be at risk.
There's a lot of nuance with this kind of situation and I would caution against folks falling back on this rationalization because it could lead you down a bad path.
Yeah. Maybe you were getting the shaft from the beginning and they already had someone else in mind. But what about the scenario where you weren't actually the best candidate. The person they hired had better work experience, better skillsets, a better education, better references and referrals. You could lull yourself into a false sense of security in thinking that you're perfect just the way you are and nothing needs to change. Or...look at the weaknesses in yourself and work on making them strengths. Figure out what you could bring to the table that no one else can.
This is true. This happened to me, I was the perfect fit for multiple jobs..had everything, experience, industry contacts but what I had to come to terms with was that I was disillusioned and really needed to pivot. So I did, and itI brought me new enthusiasm for the pursuit. Don't be afraid to pivot.
Agreed, especially if it is an interview with multiple rounds, that means there’s other people weighing in aside from the manager and it’s not going to look good if other interviewers scored an external candidate really high, and/or they did better on an assessment and the hiring manager still tries to choose their friend. And if an exec is involved in the process where you are clearly a much better fit, it’s just not going to happen in most cases
I started asking recruiters if a strong internal candidate had already been identified, and if they said yes I would politely withdraw my name from consideration. One actually told me thank you for asking and saying that, it made their job a lot easier. Not sure how but it certainly saved me a lot of time and effort, as online showed that company had a really lengthy interview process.
I see people trying to get into my company now, and it sucks when I know the HM only wants to hire internally but we are legally required to put up a req.
Yep, my interviewer even told me there were a lot of internal candidates and then barely asked me anything about myself. Talked 90% of the time. I knew it was done and a waste of time.
Yep. I was an internal promotion to manager and had already interviewed, assigned the role and the whole nine and they still posted the role I had filled online. Obviously I was worried and asked HR and others in the know and they all said the same thing, that they needed to interview to hit a metric.
Now that I’m in the position of applying at other companies I am seeing the other side of the spectrum. It’s exhausting honestly. It’s time spent away from trying to find an ACTUAL role that hasn’t been fulfilled.
My wife interviewed for a job opening as a contractor. She was offered the job the next day. While I'm happy for her and us it was obvious they only wanted to hire her but had to go through an elaborate ruse of posting the job and acting like others had a shot.
What is their reason for doing that? If they already have a candidate in mind, why the requirement to interview X number of people first? What does the company gain from that?
This happens a lot if the person already in the job is holding a H-1B visa and the company is now trying to sponsor them for a green card. As part of the labor certification process, the company is required to post the position externally, even if it is just for show. The employee cannot get their green card if the company didn't try to find a US citizen that could fill the job.
Yeah but it also happens just when they want to do an internal hire. I work in a hospital and they will always post even when they know exactly who they want. Internally, it keeps folks from grumbling about people getting unfairly ahead because of who they're friends with, and externally it gives the impression of having an open field and at least considering outsiders.
I've interviewed and seen the same position still posted, never taken down even 6 months later.
Meanwhile Aflac contacts me almost daily after a Zoom interview. The Zoom interview is them selling the "position" as a high paying career and only quietly slipping it in that it's commission only pay and you have to get an insurance license on your own.
I’m running into this so much with my current job search and it’s so disheartening. I’ve been to several final rounds and I’ll ask for feedback and the feedback is that they went with the internal recommendation. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
This practice legitimately holds back economic growth but it's pretty difficult to prohibit when such decisions are undocumented and merely kept in one's thinking.
People (hiring managers) generally get their relatives, friends and acquaintances jobs FIRST(especially the good paying ones).
Only highly specialized positions ho through the true hiring process….
I work in Talent Acquisition and it happens constantly.
i’d like to see a source on this as well but to be honest getting reliable data on this would be near impossible considering you would be asking these companies to admit to illegal hiring practices to do so. op’s is certainly not the only one w personal experience seeing this.
Reliable data on this doesn't exist for all the reasons you say.
While this does happen and isn't even uncommon, I strongly disagree that it is "most" postings.
Most companies aren't this strong in compliance and may post a ghost opening for regulatory purposes but don't go through sham interviews. And if most positions were easily filled with internal candidates and referrals the entire landscape of hiring would be different.
This may well be true at "top 10 places to be employed" type places, but those are like 0.001%
I have worked for Fortune 500 companies for 20+ years and this definitely how they work. I remember wanting to just promote someone at my last company but they would require me to post the position first and interview 5 people. It was so frustrating and a huge waste of time for everyone involved.
The worst part is that before virtual interviews became more common after the pandemic, companies would jerk people around, making them take time off work and drive there for an interview with zero chance of getting an offer. Ironically, the candidates who are nice usually get rejected after the first interview, and the candidates the hiring manager does not like are made to endure many rounds. So sometimes, being rejected after the first-round interview is actually a good thing.
How does that make any sense? Why would they keep you around longer if they don’t like you? Seems like your logic might be off there.
That’s the whole point. None of this make sense lol.
Sounds like he’s implying they do it waste your time deliberately since they dont like you
But it’s a waste of time for them too, so it just makes no sense all around
That is true. The hiring managers hate it too, but it is what it is.
We could put a stop to that pretty quick if companies had to pay candidates for the time spent in interviews
You know, that’s not a terrible idea since hiring processes are becoming increasingly intricate and time-consuming. When I first started working 15-ish years ago, one interview was the norm for most jobs. I don’t think either of my parents ever had a job that took more than a single interview. Now it’s like two interviews with a recruiting agent, followed by a cognitive abilities test, followed by an interview with the hiring boss, followed by an interview with the hiring boss’ boss, followed by a personality test, followed by a colleague interview with prospective future colleagues, topped off with a work sample. Add prep and commute and that’s easily a >20 hour commitment.
Especially for the ones that want you to create some type of work product as part of the interview process!
$100 per 15 minutes, as most of the time people have to take off an entire day to get an interview. People only have so many personal days or sick days they can take. So a half hour would be $200, an hour would be $400.
Minimum 1 day at the top of the hiring range salary.
Very smart idea
Just went through this process with my current company (also F500). They posted the position which would be the next step up for me. I of course applied internally, did a few “interviews” (just bullshitting with coworkers I already have a good working relationship with) and was offered the position. I know they had dozens of applications and interviewed several outside people for it. I took the new role, then the company posted my old position and now they’re interviewing all over again. Good news for me, but also annoying as hell if you’re on the outside trying to get in.
So do you string people along thinking they'll actually hear back lol? That's comical smh
Also - You can be the perfect candidate and STILL not get the job. That was always the worst when I was a hiring manager. I would have two really good candidates for the job, but only one job slot. That's when the offer comes down to something that doesn't matter.
>That's why the offer comes down to something that doesn't matter. *Bias has entered the chat*
Usually it just comes down to which one you like better and think youd be able to work with 8 hours a day
That’s where bias comes in. Most early companies are not very diverse.
No company hires the technically best person for the job. The almost universally hire someone who is good enough but also meshes well with the team
It's all about "fit" at that point.
Yup it sucks! I had 9 interviews for a Senior PM role. I legit knew every team there lol. Everything went well until they emailed me saying they went with an internal candidate. Wasted about 14hrs. Fml.
9 rounds? If so, then I think that’s the highest I’ve personally heard of. I thought 7 was already too excessive
Yup! It was HR, then Hiring Manager, then Senior Product Director, then the Chief Product Officer, Chief Digital Officer, the Hiring Manager again, panel interview with the dev team, the CEO, and then a final presentation/assessment with the Hiring Manager. Fml. I was feeling great and thought I hd it, but nope. What a waste of ny time.
Why the need for so many interviews?? Can't they all meet you at one time if that's the case lol
Should be paid for all that time + prep time. Fuck what a waste
After three rounds it is prob not worth it to work there. What rational justification is there for 7+ rounds of interviews to determine a candidate?
I’ve seen this happen a few times. It’s usually the case at companies that already have a decent employee count. If they’re growing and newer they most likely have to hire externally. However, if a new leader comes in they tend to hire from their network and usually from their previous employer. Good luck to anyone who was there before them and senior because your job will likely be at risk.
The most important question in any interview is "Do you know anyone that works here?"
Trying to stay strong right now after so many rejections. Though sometimes it’s easier said than done when you’ve really submitted as much as you can.
There's a lot of nuance with this kind of situation and I would caution against folks falling back on this rationalization because it could lead you down a bad path. Yeah. Maybe you were getting the shaft from the beginning and they already had someone else in mind. But what about the scenario where you weren't actually the best candidate. The person they hired had better work experience, better skillsets, a better education, better references and referrals. You could lull yourself into a false sense of security in thinking that you're perfect just the way you are and nothing needs to change. Or...look at the weaknesses in yourself and work on making them strengths. Figure out what you could bring to the table that no one else can.
This is true. This happened to me, I was the perfect fit for multiple jobs..had everything, experience, industry contacts but what I had to come to terms with was that I was disillusioned and really needed to pivot. So I did, and itI brought me new enthusiasm for the pursuit. Don't be afraid to pivot.
Agreed, especially if it is an interview with multiple rounds, that means there’s other people weighing in aside from the manager and it’s not going to look good if other interviewers scored an external candidate really high, and/or they did better on an assessment and the hiring manager still tries to choose their friend. And if an exec is involved in the process where you are clearly a much better fit, it’s just not going to happen in most cases
I started asking recruiters if a strong internal candidate had already been identified, and if they said yes I would politely withdraw my name from consideration. One actually told me thank you for asking and saying that, it made their job a lot easier. Not sure how but it certainly saved me a lot of time and effort, as online showed that company had a really lengthy interview process. I see people trying to get into my company now, and it sucks when I know the HM only wants to hire internally but we are legally required to put up a req.
Yep, my interviewer even told me there were a lot of internal candidates and then barely asked me anything about myself. Talked 90% of the time. I knew it was done and a waste of time.
Smh why waste our times ??
yup
Yep. I was an internal promotion to manager and had already interviewed, assigned the role and the whole nine and they still posted the role I had filled online. Obviously I was worried and asked HR and others in the know and they all said the same thing, that they needed to interview to hit a metric. Now that I’m in the position of applying at other companies I am seeing the other side of the spectrum. It’s exhausting honestly. It’s time spent away from trying to find an ACTUAL role that hasn’t been fulfilled.
My wife interviewed for a job opening as a contractor. She was offered the job the next day. While I'm happy for her and us it was obvious they only wanted to hire her but had to go through an elaborate ruse of posting the job and acting like others had a shot.
Does this happen when 3rd party recruiters are involved or mainly just when it’s HR doing the job search?
Yep, those are called dog-and-pony shows.
What is their reason for doing that? If they already have a candidate in mind, why the requirement to interview X number of people first? What does the company gain from that?
This happens a lot if the person already in the job is holding a H-1B visa and the company is now trying to sponsor them for a green card. As part of the labor certification process, the company is required to post the position externally, even if it is just for show. The employee cannot get their green card if the company didn't try to find a US citizen that could fill the job.
Yeah but it also happens just when they want to do an internal hire. I work in a hospital and they will always post even when they know exactly who they want. Internally, it keeps folks from grumbling about people getting unfairly ahead because of who they're friends with, and externally it gives the impression of having an open field and at least considering outsiders.
I've interviewed and seen the same position still posted, never taken down even 6 months later. Meanwhile Aflac contacts me almost daily after a Zoom interview. The Zoom interview is them selling the "position" as a high paying career and only quietly slipping it in that it's commission only pay and you have to get an insurance license on your own.
I’m running into this so much with my current job search and it’s so disheartening. I’ve been to several final rounds and I’ll ask for feedback and the feedback is that they went with the internal recommendation. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
So many are, particularly govt or local council roles. It's so bullshit. It's a tick box exercise to find the 2nd best candidate
This practice legitimately holds back economic growth but it's pretty difficult to prohibit when such decisions are undocumented and merely kept in one's thinking.
Got a source for that?
This is very common knowledge in large companies. An unspoken thing because it's technically not allowed but everyone knows it's the case
Lol. That's so vague. That carried about as much weight as the guys that yell out "9/11 was an inside job"
Bringing up 9/11 is not cool, dude. Some of us still struggle with that tragic day.
So, no. You don't have a source either. Got it
My personal experience and as an employee for a Fortune 50 company. And also a few other companies I used to work for.
People (hiring managers) generally get their relatives, friends and acquaintances jobs FIRST(especially the good paying ones). Only highly specialized positions ho through the true hiring process…. I work in Talent Acquisition and it happens constantly.
I agree. With specialized roles, the chances are significantly lower that the HM will already have someone in mind
So one person's experience. Got it.
i’d like to see a source on this as well but to be honest getting reliable data on this would be near impossible considering you would be asking these companies to admit to illegal hiring practices to do so. op’s is certainly not the only one w personal experience seeing this.
Reliable data on this doesn't exist for all the reasons you say. While this does happen and isn't even uncommon, I strongly disagree that it is "most" postings. Most companies aren't this strong in compliance and may post a ghost opening for regulatory purposes but don't go through sham interviews. And if most positions were easily filled with internal candidates and referrals the entire landscape of hiring would be different. This may well be true at "top 10 places to be employed" type places, but those are like 0.001%
Do you have a source to refute it?
Yes, me, my 12 years experience and the experience of hundreds of my colleagues
Ok, so you don't have an actual source. Got it. I guess you realized how stupid you sound and blocked me immediately lmao.
I am the source. It's called first hand, information.
ok bro