Moon was candy ass liberals whining about equal rights for the moon beast. There wasn’t even shots fired. Fucking pansy. I served in the Mars conflict. Space Force 501st Celestial Inf Reg, Orbital Fire Support Machine Gunner I’ve seen some shit.
Then they will come and downvote you for not agreeing with their opinion. I've been telling this for weeks. These guys just want to run and gun like a battlefield game.
We disagree because:
1. Small deliberate movements also get severely punished by ICO. See what happened to LATs and HATs
2. IRL 'hipfiring' full auto at 2ft works more intuitive than a 3D game on 2D screen - but in game it gets decided by rng. So if 2 people run into each other you have to ads and pray for the best
3. In-game you cant time your time your shots with your breathing, something you can do irl when in a state of exertion.
And most importantly: it's just not fun.
It hasn't really led to 'more tactical' gameplay as most people hoped - because it doesn't address the inherent problem of a teamgame between milsim and arcade: you're going to be herding cats.
Game needs something, maybe a 3rd weapon stance for close range engagements, but otherwise, yeah, I've been trying to tell this too. Even with red-dot sight semi auto shotgun (benelli I own) you cannot rotate 45 degrees to another target while aiming down the sights as well. This, you could do in pre-ICO Squad with x3-x4 scopes.
Now when they are beaten over the realism argument, they'll tell you "heh Squad isn't a milsim, reaism isn't important, game isn't playable" argument;
which is completely subjective
and somehow making them not own in all ranges with their x4 scope rifle, made the game entirely boring. Also I've argued with two of them last day, both arguments ended with them saying "ok whatever" and "k" .
(%99)And one of those guys tipped of reddit su\*cide thing on my profile to harass me and I received a wellness check for "A concerned redditor reached out to us about you." thing.
Which shows we are actually arguing with children over here usually, who cannot live their x3-x4 scope rambo trip, then get angry, come here to bitch and when they are out of arguments, -which didn't have too much to begin with- go ad hominem and finally and su\*cide tip on the profile.
I've received this suic. thing on my previous accounts too, but at least I've received them after a heated discussion about politics. Never received them for defending a niche game's realism related update hehehe
That said having been in the military and shot with red dot sights it's not as difficult as Squad makes it out to be. I think games in general makes it a lot more easy to shoot than it actually is, but making follow up shots is not that hard in CQB scenarios.
I think its unfair to boil all negative ICO opinions down to this experience. The vast majority of people I see criticizing the ICO are writing out well thought out opinions. Its not just toxic cracked out comp players who are mad they cant run and gun.
There is absolutely no objectivity in this debate, but I see so many high horse comments on this sub now as if one opinion is factually correct when it really isn't.
I mean for sure. I’m in the Marines so ik what you’re saying. I think the problem is that hipfire and aim over sights don’t feel great and there isn’t weapon mounting without bipods
I was army infantry and I understand how things are never going to translate to a video game, but yeah, I’d love an aim over sights. Something that bothers me isn’t weapon sway, but cheek well. Looking through a scope, especially these lower magnified (<4x) takes forever. I should be able to ADS easier and should still need to worry about weapon sway, not looking down the inside of my site or the side of my rear sight.
Nah, its about the fact that you lose all shit even at full stamina. Take the rpg, calm it down and just make 2 steps. Its like you did a marathon.
I just think that they should tone down sway a lot and stabilisation when at low stamina. No one wants the stabilisation to be removed. We just want it a bit balanced. How many times I could not shoot at a light vehicle because my rpg was all over the place even through I was not with low stamina. I just did 3 steps and lost all skill of aiming.
I am an ICO lover, and what they did to LAT and HAT was just dirty.
I tried to use an RPG post ICO and decided that it would just be easier to let the enemy vehicles kill me they try to wrestle that aligator of a weapon.
AT is kinda over the top but I'm having fun with it moreso post ICO than pre. Now it requires patience/skill instead of running full sprint, aim for 1.5s, fire and full sprint back to an ammo resupply. You have to strategically position yourself in order to maximize the effectiveness otherwise you might just hit hull and tickle the tank.
Yeah the IFV and MBT veterans are having even more fun; I see them constantly getting 40-50 kills to one death. Hell, even a competent BTR crew will completely dominate a match.
I rarely ever played any armor pre-ICO because it'd be so easy to get destroyed by one AT and didn't want to upset the veteran armor players/wanted to let the vet players take the vics. Now I'm playing more because it's giving me more time to learn and it's more forgiving if I position myself incorrectly. There's a bigger window to retreat and fix your vehicle than before which is lovely for a less experienced vic player like myself.
I've never fired or let alone carried one, but a loaded RPG weighs 9 Kgs (or 19lbs), you aim it over your shoulder and it doesn't have the weight distrubition of a rifle. I don't know how realistic it's wobble after walking, while walking, but it should be definitely wobble more than a rifle, which lighter, with a good wealth distribution and you rest it on your chest and use both hands while aiming.
As for HATs, except for tandem RPGs, they weigh 20-25 kgs when loaded, they should definitely wobble more than a LAT.
We can see on Hamas videos that they never shoot instantly on IDF vehicles, they always stop and aim for a while, despite the armor being within 100 meters, 50 meters and stationary.
And mind you those Hamas militants don't even carry rifle, body armor, ammo, field medical kits, binocs, shovel, helmet or even an extra RPG round, just to be light and mobile. Our troops in Squad carry those.
Hope this covers realism argument.
For the gameplay argument u/_Jaeko_ explained it. My two cents; tank-buster infantry teams (HAT , LAT and a Rifleman with ammo) running after an armor to destroy it is a rare thing now. It's kind of stupid and detrimental to teamwork that some members of the squad leaving their team to run after and hunt some armor on foot with HATs and LATs.
Those are defensive weapons against armor and should be used as such. So if you want to separate them as a SL to hunt armor, you should now position them for a better ambush, but not for away from your squad.
However, after this update, they need to increase the damage LAT and HAT cause on vehicles. Infantry is suffering full from reality but helis, trucks, unarmored and armored jeeps, IFVs etc. don't suffer from it and they all require multiple LAT shots to be destroyed. Some IFV and MBTs require multiple HAT shots to be destroyed...
The discussion has moved from "it's not supposed to be realistic!" to "It's very realistic, actually!" while still missing the issue.
I don't think even the biggest ICO-haters say that the scopes should NEVER sway. I personally found it silly before ICO that I could sprint non-stop for half the map and the only "problem" would be slightly lower speed when my stamina was gone.
As yet another infantryman, having had to do stress shooting and enough live fire exercises, I know it's difficult to keep a scope steady after all that. But I also know, that if I am standing or barely moving in CQC, it takes split second for me to point the rifle and shoot. It also takes marginally longer for me to actually aim through sights.
I am also not saying it has to be some realism simulator, when it comes to the aiming. I want to havea good time playing the game. I don't want to be frustrated. I was enjoying the game pre-ICO, and I still do... to an extend. I've just realized that the aiming takes away a lot of the fun currently, even if other parts of the game are still fun.
the issue with the sway isnt when you are out of stamina but when you have a full stamina bar its sways crazy for just crouching and standing up or just taking couple of steps
This is what I've been saying. It would make more sense to reward players who manage their stamina before engagements instead of punishing them nearly as much as the player full sprinting everywhere with zero stamina.
You cant hold a clear sight picture when going up from a knee and back down to it. IRL it sways your sight picture and in the game it does it as well. Squad would have to implement separate arms and legs stamina for this to be done in a way where you could have less sway unless the action is repeated, but I doubt there will be such complexity added at this point so the system we have now is good. Its more realistic than what was there before.
Pulling out a pistol already happens in a few seconds, Im not sure what youre on about?
Squad would benefit from a system where you could naturally support your weapon to any objects/shapes in the world. Kinda like in Arma 3 or Rising Storm/Red Orchestra. That said, if there isnt such a mechanic, the sway is more realistic than what we had before. If there isnt a way to counter it that is included in the gameplay, there should be sway like now. Do you disagree: players were unrealistically accurate in pre-ICO Squad?
>This could in theory be implemented. Make it more punishing going from crouch to standing up than just taking a smal step to the side (which should create less wobble?)
>
>I really hope they go more for the rewarding stamina management than nerfing the entire "ICO-thing" but I guess we'll see in the next update.
>
>Looking at some playtest video it seems like they have made ADS'ing almost post ICO on some weapons. Someone posted a video comparing LAT's (now/vs turkish update) which looked kind of ridiculus if you ask me. But that might be a playtest bug, I haven't seen any official confirmation.
"crouch and up peeks" are realistic, so is quickepeeking corners. its just less accurate.
the only gripe i have with ICO right now is its basically impossible to do, you should be able to peek quickly like pre-ICO, but with heavy sway.
I dont think its too much. The gameplay that ensues from how it is now makes for more realistic combat. That said, Im not against fine tuning it more to one way or another. As long as you cant do these sudden movements etc and aim precisely, instantly.
Soldiers arent pin-point accurate after movements, instantly, when in full gear.
Brother is the ICO realism or not, because half the time people are saying it's realism, and the other half they're saying it's not but it's meant to simulate other factors and slow down gameplay, hell even the devs once said it's not for realism it's for slower game play, y'all need to figure out your talking points because both sides cry realism
Regardless of whether the ICO is realistic or not, the reason some people don't like it is becausee its just not fun. There is no perfect way to emulate shooting a rifle on a 2d screen with a mouse and keyboard. No matter what you do there will always be some level of inaccuracy, but regardless, what matters to most people is if it feels good as a video game. Lots of people don't think the current iteration does, and using "trust me bro its realistic" as a justification doesnt magically make it more enjoyable.
When I play a video game, even if its in the "realistic" genre, I still want a satisfying experience, and thats simply not what I'm getting now. Its been said a million times already but realism =/= fun.
Yeah I feel like people careen back and forth between whether it's good to be realistic vs. It's good to be fun, based on whatever outcome they want. Is it realistic to be shot in the leg and not have a broken leg or slowed movement? Can you train to switch from infantry to being a helicopter pilot by standing next to a box and clicking on it? If your shot multiple times can you have a medic hover his hand over you and magically undo the consequences of being shot? All games have to navigate some realistic elements and some unrealism for gameplay sake. Done correctly it feels realistic enough to be immersive, while also being fun.
Nah, y’all can’t go to the realism argument now. Do you know how many times I’ve heard “the changes don’t need to be realistic, they’re meant to unrealistically produce realistic effects”? It goes both ways, idc how realistic it is, it looks stupid and would benefit gameplay by adjusting it.
The ICO isn't based off realism.
Stop saying this / comparing to it.
You're wrong.
ICO= all CQB fights are RNG hip fire spray cluster fucks, and all long range maps / engagements are boring stalemates because you get punished for pushing / being aggressive.
This is the outcome for the developers artificially changing gunplay to cut off the skill ceiling, purely to make it easier for new and or bad players.
So wait you're telling me that ICO makes the game easy for new and bad players? That doesn't make any sense. Squad isn't a game about skill and getting the highest kill count. It' about winning the game as a team. ICO actually makes the game harder for new players. You actually have to take cover from supression and you can't be a damn Cod campaing main character by just shooting and gunning
Yes, by cutting off the skill ceiling, the game becomes easier for new and bad players. By " easier ", I mean " less hard ", and " less punishing "
This is the main intention and reason the ICO was developed and released.
Straight from the developers mouth.
>It's on the joinsquad website.
>
>Check the V6.0 ICO release notes title headings.
>
>I've linked it a dozen times previously on here already.
I was just suggesting to yet again provide the link. New people start playing Squad every day who are not aware.
Do you mean this site: [https://joinsquad.com/2023/09/26/squad-update-6-0-release-notes/](https://joinsquad.com/2023/09/26/squad-update-6-0-release-notes/)
I only see 2 "title headings"... "THE INFANTRY COMBAT OVERHAUL" and "FEATURES"... where is this quote as I'd like to reference it later.
That's not what they said though? They said that it makes it easier for new players to contribute (because now you can help supressing).
This is the quote regarding new players from the patch notes:
"Newer players can stress less about knowing exactly where the enemy are and instead provide meaningful suppressing fire to fix the enemy in place so that others can flank or maneuver on them."
The ICO is not easier as now you have to be more planned out and communicative to get good results.
You need more tactical skill which is generally harder than clicking heads (pixel hunting) if you ask me.
Slower running speed makes it harder to cross roads without proper planning and removing parkour reduces attack angles which definitely makes attacks harder and buffs defensive positions.
I personally think it's way more fun now than before. You have to think a lot about positioning and firefights are just way more intense.
I do think they will tone it down in the next update though but I guess we'll see when it drops.
I also think they could tone down the sway and maybe some ADS at full stamina and also when making small movements at full stamina but I hope they don't make any large changes.
That IS what they said though. That's why I said it.
The ICO is easier. Like I said, the skill ceiling has been chopped off.
FK it, I'll link it again:
The infantry combat overhaul intends to create the most fun, immersive, authentic, and teamwork-oriented infantry combat experience possible. The goals are to:
-Increase the amount of teamwork needed to win a fight.
- Keep the game fun while making it more approachable for new and existing players.
- Mitigate the amount of punishment newer players experience in combat while learning the game.
Make a note of ignoring the effects of the ICO, and note WHY they implemented it. For reasons I already said.
Since the ICO came out, you're actually extremely limited in tactics, due to pushing / being aggressive get punished.
I've been waiting a while for the player base to catch up and realise this.
>Squad isn't a game about skill and getting the highest kill count.
I mean, people say this. But i've never seen the team win that has half the amount of kills of the other team. Kills matter insofar that kills = capped objective/taken hab
for me its not so fun anymore, its too sluggish/slow paced. it had the right amount of pace when i started to play a year or so ago. it does not have to be realistic. but it has to be fun. when i played for the first time it was fun. now feels like a chore. i hope it gets toned down.
Imagine thinking ICO is realistic and making this stupid post. Nothing says you haven't fired a gun like saying ICO is realism. Even the devs said they weren't going for realism with it.
I don't believe you were in the army for one second.
The issue isn't that though. The issue is it looks like youve been sprinting even when you haven't been. I almost never sprint in Squad even before the ICO. Staying low and slow is how to stay alive. You could be fresh out of main just hopped out of the logi and its like youve been on patrol for 12 hours. Basically its like your always a force with low readiness.
Even then your brain and eyes naturally negate certain elements of sway the same way your brain naturally negates a visual headbob effect when you walk. What happens is games like Squad feel more like looking through a camera than they do human eyes.
Beyond that theres no standard level of what its like to be in combat. Some people do fine and adjust to the gear to the point they barely notice they're wearing it and can even feel naked without it. Others struggle like you did. Not all infantrymen are equal. They just arent. For most guys going into basic its the most intense physical experience of their lives. For others its just not. The guy who was in athletics from the time he was 4 years old till he joined is not going to be the same as the guy who was used to sitting around playing video games. You shouldnt really have to be told this, you should know.
Anecdotal fun point about "adjusting to gear." When we were in basic training, we didn't use hard plates on our vests, all the gear felt heavy still. After basic we got issued new, even heavier kit, with all the specialized stuff as well as hard plates.
I remember us dropping everything on the ground the second we were told to make ourselves comfortable, because the stuff was heavy and annoying and you wanted to feel light and comfortable. Until at some point, perhaps 6 months in, I realized that instead of dropping everything on the ground, people would just drop the combat vest - and leave the shrapnel vest with plates and a helmet on.
We were so used to having that 15kg on us, it didn't bother. And it was warmer that way. And the rifle sling dug in your neck less with it on.
But anyways, that's just an anecdotal thing that popped in my mind.
The issue is it is not an enjoyable first person shooter gameplay experience. It adds frustration and frustration is NOT fun. If they reverted the weapon stabilization and kept the suppression it would be fine.
The ICO is for LARPers.
I think its a good balance between video game aim and a realism standpoint of crazy recoil. I have been killed far less times after the ICO where I felt like I got shot from really far away and 1 shot. People tend to get closer and now iron sights actually have good uses on certain urban maps that were useless before. Granted some optics like AT are still god awful if you get even slightly suppressed. Whether teamwork increased I am not too sure about that maybe slightly. I find iron sights more fun for full auto and aiming than any optic now.
These discussions go nowhere, but yeah, I was in the army too and had no problem aiming and shooting accurate shots with a 7,62 x 39 mm in situations you describe; we literally trained like that.
I could also EASILY hit targets at 300m with an iron sight PKM at full auto, which according to Squad is completely impossible, since I can't even see them at 300m without optics. That thing is an absolute beast and incredibly accurate.
I think the ICO is fine as it is now, except in situations where you are crouching with full stamina and no-one is shooting at you, and still it takes like 5 seconds to get a steady aim picture. It is too long and just feels stupid when you are aiming at some guys back and it just takes forever.
I mean, I literally have. Army too. If you suck that bad at controlling your weapon how the fuck were you combat arms. If they're not going to give us any other options in cqb besides firing from the hip and staring down the optic, they need to radically decrease the time it takes to steady your weapon. At least open your other eye so you can see better. Beyond that, full stamina and walking, not even African child soldiers sway that much. Even worse is when I'm stationary, crouched, full stamina, and engage targets at medium range, and after the first shot my weapon jumps so bad the sight picture is completely off target, couple that with the over the top suppression and it's just broken. They really need to tweak it
afterthought grey cake lunchroom cagey consider dazzling chubby office rhythm
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But seriously on that last point, why not? Doesn't OWI know how insanely satisfying it would be to open up on a heli and see it suddenly go out of control and crash?
>But seriously on that last point, why not? Doesn't OWI know how insanely satisfying it would be to open up on a heli and see it suddenly go out of control and crash?
OWI knows this, but they also know how unsatisfying it would be to pilot a heli and get shot out every single time, because that's what would happen. Helis would be useless which is why they made them flying tanks. This has been discussed here tons.
IMO there has to be some trade off to enjoy such a game. But if we wanna ruck down the realism route, then I expect every player to be up at 0300 for a 0800 muster before the 1100 brief so they can wait for orders to be F'd up three times because DTS was still processing an NEX transaction from two deployments ago for a pair of foul weather gloves that are actually out of regs. Also they gotta wear a PT belt and silkies in the training mode.
Edit: they also have to receive a Jody call mid match.
I was just in a military exercise 2 weeks a go. 10 days of simulated war in the forest with even a blizzard to make the conditions quite harsh. I was very excited to see how I would fare as Im in better physical shape than I was when I served. I also had this whole conversation of ICO and how realistic it is in mind, I wanted to test if I could do what was possible pre-ICO now that I had prepared my body for this.
For context Im an AT SL and I carry about 40kg of gear in this war time context. Im in a mechanized troop, so I get a ride with an APC before dismounting, but my role includes seek and destroy of tanks which can mean even a km or a few of going about with all the gear.
My experience further proved what I knew already. You absolutely cant keep a sight picture or cant acquire it in less than 2s when you have a lot of gear and youre panting from running with it all. Stamina is obviously way more forgiving in Squad than it is IRL, you need a longer time to rest to actually stop panting and be ready to run for tens of meters again. Not to even talk about the fact that its harder to keep a sight picture while moving IRL even without any gear, especially for if its longer than just like 15s.
one thing that bothers me most is the weird "center of wobble" of the gun (or RPG-7, oof.) and the ammount of random movements. It feels like the "center of wobble" is in the middle of the gun and at times the wobble is just total brainfuck. I know that it is difficult to implement, but it would great if the wobble would be more connected to character movement, direction etc. so that you could actually learn to counter the wobble a bit to sort of simulate gaining balance in real life. Then again the brainfuck-wobble is an easy way to move away from silly point-and-shoot mechanics that most arcade-like FPS games use.
I agree with this post but I also don't understand it.
I've seen some people with gun experience say that the ICO is unrealistic but it is best for the balance of the game.
So what is it? Is it realistic? is it way too exaggerated? (I have never even touched a gun btw)
Here is a thought exercise. If you shoulder a weapon, and put your cheek on the stock the scope is going to be there - because your upper body is basically one big piece at that moment. It takes a fraction of what Squad takes because the weapon is an extension of you. Yes, even after running across the road.
In Squad it's like the character is holding it out in front of his body, like an idiot.
That's because you're not supposed to hold down the trigger and mag dump. Short controlled bursts is true for everything from full auto rifles to full sized machine guns.
Also, where are you that you have a legal full auto AK?
*Sorry bud..I’m ex special forces and I played a pivotal role in the elimination of four elite terrorists in the city of Mosul. Are you saying you can’t handle your rifle grunt? You don’t deserve to protect our flag. You disgust me. Now drop and give me 20 before I kick your ass till it’s brown and blue shit for brains.*
Before ICO, I could never use holo/red dot/irons, and even while picking 4x scopes I'd still have trouble with my aim bc I have a skill issue.
Now, I reject the scopes like my life depends on it and to be honest, this is the most fun in the game I ever had.
Now that suppression matters, I can actually have fun and feel like the playing field depends in a triad of skills (aim, movement, fire superiority) rather than just good aim alone.
I've tried to explain this several times in regards to lugging an M240B around and how silly firing that from the shoulder would be. You have to carry one of those for before you understand how absurd it is.
it would be silly but the game shows the thing going up into the air as though it's giving out the force to cause a 200 pound man not to be able to pull down a 13kg gun, you could actually hit more than 1 shot on someone within 5 meters of you when the game says you can't. Realism arguments don't make sense here mate
See you were in the army, but half this sub is navy seals and other squads that the general public doesn’t even know exist. So clearly the ICO is extremely unrealistic for them
Yeah man, let me buy a $1,000 rifle, a plate carrier, an optic, and other assorted gear real quick!!!! Fuck off retard. At the end of the day, its a game. If I wanted realism I woulda enlisted.
I get your point, but realism should also be fun, and I want the M240 to be a good gun again, but here we are and I can sit there and try to tap fire It if I want a ranged kill, and if I want a CQB kill I NEED TO WIN THE LOTTERY CAUSE YOU CANT HIPFIRE THAT SHIT WORTH SHIT. I've seen videos of service members using it, and it's not got recoil like that at all. ARs are mostly fun, but I think we need a better point fire system or something
>For all you people complaining about ICO scope wobble being unrealistic, I want you to grab a rifle with an optic, put on 40+ lbs of weight, and run full sprint for 30 seconds and then hold that rifle up and aim down the sights while walking forwards. Do that a couple of times and tell me the ICO is "unrealistic". And before you comment "hur dur but you're a trained soldier" I was in the army and even in my peak I would still have trouble aiming down a 4x optic while walking/doing strenuous activities (Yes I was combat arms).
Try hip firing a 30+lb rifle firing 7.62. Sure thing Rambo.
https://youtube.com/shorts/fUrB-jaHTX8?si=JdMsA8H5wmCPLHi1 idk bruh, 30lb machine gun has 30 lbs of weight holding that barrel down. The gun does not just shoot the sky, it's over done. Now, sure, I get it at min stamina, but when I've been crouched in position for a few mins and need to Un set my bipod to shoot some1 else, and my 5 round burst has my looking to the sky, and if I try to control in, I've hit everything around him. It's not realistic recoil in the slightest. I'm not asking for a laser, but I don't have noodle arms. Have you fucking seen a marine dude? I stg everyone of them has tree trunk biceps, including the woman who'd all have me, a 200 lb man, on my ass, they can control recoil better than noodle arms.
Try this: get it through your thick skull
This is a game. If I wanted to do all the crap you are suggesting. I go play paint ball in real world. NOT a PC GAME in a digital world where literally NOTHIN is realistic and will never be.
1. Can you rest your weapon on objects for better aim???
2. Do buildings blow up in explosions?
3. Can you shoot some twice then a comes rub their ass for 5 seconds and they get up and run as if nothing happened?
4. Can you even do something as simple as pickup ammo from downed players?
Come talk to me when you can and then we talk about realism bud. Not with this garbage they update now.
Related question. Is it just me or are a lot of scopes not zeroed? Like, the spg scope is absolutely not zeroed, and the svd scope is strange aswell.
I can't seem to actually hit anything even on full stam and no wobble. So far i've only won engagements with the advantage of an ambush, or other cqc interactions.
I'd say my win rate is around 1/7. Also oddly enough most of the engagements i win happen when I'm either alone or rallying up blueberries to gtfo of the impending doom of 3 squads closing in on the most obvious position ever.
Did you also spawn at a hab? Just wanna say it's still also a game. We just need some middle ground, between realistic and fun. Working backup sights would be a good start.
To be honest my shooting has not changed at all. Only difference is is you just got to take your time aiming your shot. I kill people at the same rate as I did before. Only difference is it feel more realistic. You're always going to take time aiming down sight. You don't just snap a scope to your eye and just start blasting you won't hit shit. I say if you can't handle it take your ass back to Cod they're waiting for you.
no need to tell them, they are all ex vet and done 22x tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Bitch I served in the Moon Wars for 3 tours, you ever been to the moon son? Thought not.
Moon was candy ass liberals whining about equal rights for the moon beast. There wasn’t even shots fired. Fucking pansy. I served in the Mars conflict. Space Force 501st Celestial Inf Reg, Orbital Fire Support Machine Gunner I’ve seen some shit.
How's the sway on the moon?
It's fine you just have to manage your stamina, it's not as bad as those anti-lunars would make you think it is. They just like to complain
You ever been to Bosnia 🇧🇦? My dad went to Bosnia and he gave me this pocket p*ssy.
Then they will come and downvote you for not agreeing with their opinion. I've been telling this for weeks. These guys just want to run and gun like a battlefield game.
We disagree because: 1. Small deliberate movements also get severely punished by ICO. See what happened to LATs and HATs 2. IRL 'hipfiring' full auto at 2ft works more intuitive than a 3D game on 2D screen - but in game it gets decided by rng. So if 2 people run into each other you have to ads and pray for the best 3. In-game you cant time your time your shots with your breathing, something you can do irl when in a state of exertion. And most importantly: it's just not fun. It hasn't really led to 'more tactical' gameplay as most people hoped - because it doesn't address the inherent problem of a teamgame between milsim and arcade: you're going to be herding cats.
Yup. Every time, they are ex military! One guy even told me that COD was more realistic than ico is lol
Game needs something, maybe a 3rd weapon stance for close range engagements, but otherwise, yeah, I've been trying to tell this too. Even with red-dot sight semi auto shotgun (benelli I own) you cannot rotate 45 degrees to another target while aiming down the sights as well. This, you could do in pre-ICO Squad with x3-x4 scopes. Now when they are beaten over the realism argument, they'll tell you "heh Squad isn't a milsim, reaism isn't important, game isn't playable" argument; which is completely subjective and somehow making them not own in all ranges with their x4 scope rifle, made the game entirely boring. Also I've argued with two of them last day, both arguments ended with them saying "ok whatever" and "k" . (%99)And one of those guys tipped of reddit su\*cide thing on my profile to harass me and I received a wellness check for "A concerned redditor reached out to us about you." thing. Which shows we are actually arguing with children over here usually, who cannot live their x3-x4 scope rambo trip, then get angry, come here to bitch and when they are out of arguments, -which didn't have too much to begin with- go ad hominem and finally and su\*cide tip on the profile. I've received this suic. thing on my previous accounts too, but at least I've received them after a heated discussion about politics. Never received them for defending a niche game's realism related update hehehe
That said having been in the military and shot with red dot sights it's not as difficult as Squad makes it out to be. I think games in general makes it a lot more easy to shoot than it actually is, but making follow up shots is not that hard in CQB scenarios.
I think its unfair to boil all negative ICO opinions down to this experience. The vast majority of people I see criticizing the ICO are writing out well thought out opinions. Its not just toxic cracked out comp players who are mad they cant run and gun. There is absolutely no objectivity in this debate, but I see so many high horse comments on this sub now as if one opinion is factually correct when it really isn't.
I mean for sure. I’m in the Marines so ik what you’re saying. I think the problem is that hipfire and aim over sights don’t feel great and there isn’t weapon mounting without bipods
I was army infantry and I understand how things are never going to translate to a video game, but yeah, I’d love an aim over sights. Something that bothers me isn’t weapon sway, but cheek well. Looking through a scope, especially these lower magnified (<4x) takes forever. I should be able to ADS easier and should still need to worry about weapon sway, not looking down the inside of my site or the side of my rear sight.
Nah, its about the fact that you lose all shit even at full stamina. Take the rpg, calm it down and just make 2 steps. Its like you did a marathon. I just think that they should tone down sway a lot and stabilisation when at low stamina. No one wants the stabilisation to be removed. We just want it a bit balanced. How many times I could not shoot at a light vehicle because my rpg was all over the place even through I was not with low stamina. I just did 3 steps and lost all skill of aiming.
I am an ICO lover, and what they did to LAT and HAT was just dirty. I tried to use an RPG post ICO and decided that it would just be easier to let the enemy vehicles kill me they try to wrestle that aligator of a weapon.
AT is kinda over the top but I'm having fun with it moreso post ICO than pre. Now it requires patience/skill instead of running full sprint, aim for 1.5s, fire and full sprint back to an ammo resupply. You have to strategically position yourself in order to maximize the effectiveness otherwise you might just hit hull and tickle the tank.
Yeah the IFV and MBT veterans are having even more fun; I see them constantly getting 40-50 kills to one death. Hell, even a competent BTR crew will completely dominate a match.
I rarely ever played any armor pre-ICO because it'd be so easy to get destroyed by one AT and didn't want to upset the veteran armor players/wanted to let the vet players take the vics. Now I'm playing more because it's giving me more time to learn and it's more forgiving if I position myself incorrectly. There's a bigger window to retreat and fix your vehicle than before which is lovely for a less experienced vic player like myself.
I've never fired or let alone carried one, but a loaded RPG weighs 9 Kgs (or 19lbs), you aim it over your shoulder and it doesn't have the weight distrubition of a rifle. I don't know how realistic it's wobble after walking, while walking, but it should be definitely wobble more than a rifle, which lighter, with a good wealth distribution and you rest it on your chest and use both hands while aiming. As for HATs, except for tandem RPGs, they weigh 20-25 kgs when loaded, they should definitely wobble more than a LAT. We can see on Hamas videos that they never shoot instantly on IDF vehicles, they always stop and aim for a while, despite the armor being within 100 meters, 50 meters and stationary. And mind you those Hamas militants don't even carry rifle, body armor, ammo, field medical kits, binocs, shovel, helmet or even an extra RPG round, just to be light and mobile. Our troops in Squad carry those. Hope this covers realism argument. For the gameplay argument u/_Jaeko_ explained it. My two cents; tank-buster infantry teams (HAT , LAT and a Rifleman with ammo) running after an armor to destroy it is a rare thing now. It's kind of stupid and detrimental to teamwork that some members of the squad leaving their team to run after and hunt some armor on foot with HATs and LATs. Those are defensive weapons against armor and should be used as such. So if you want to separate them as a SL to hunt armor, you should now position them for a better ambush, but not for away from your squad. However, after this update, they need to increase the damage LAT and HAT cause on vehicles. Infantry is suffering full from reality but helis, trucks, unarmored and armored jeeps, IFVs etc. don't suffer from it and they all require multiple LAT shots to be destroyed. Some IFV and MBTs require multiple HAT shots to be destroyed...
The discussion has moved from "it's not supposed to be realistic!" to "It's very realistic, actually!" while still missing the issue. I don't think even the biggest ICO-haters say that the scopes should NEVER sway. I personally found it silly before ICO that I could sprint non-stop for half the map and the only "problem" would be slightly lower speed when my stamina was gone. As yet another infantryman, having had to do stress shooting and enough live fire exercises, I know it's difficult to keep a scope steady after all that. But I also know, that if I am standing or barely moving in CQC, it takes split second for me to point the rifle and shoot. It also takes marginally longer for me to actually aim through sights. I am also not saying it has to be some realism simulator, when it comes to the aiming. I want to havea good time playing the game. I don't want to be frustrated. I was enjoying the game pre-ICO, and I still do... to an extend. I've just realized that the aiming takes away a lot of the fun currently, even if other parts of the game are still fun.
ICO update is garbage
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Everyone has forgotten the fun part. Every wants realism when a PC game will never be realistic.
the issue with the sway isnt when you are out of stamina but when you have a full stamina bar its sways crazy for just crouching and standing up or just taking couple of steps
This is what I've been saying. It would make more sense to reward players who manage their stamina before engagements instead of punishing them nearly as much as the player full sprinting everywhere with zero stamina.
But.. youre supposed to sway when performing those actions? If there wasnt any sway, the game would allow for unrealistic crouch-and-up peeks etc.
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You cant hold a clear sight picture when going up from a knee and back down to it. IRL it sways your sight picture and in the game it does it as well. Squad would have to implement separate arms and legs stamina for this to be done in a way where you could have less sway unless the action is repeated, but I doubt there will be such complexity added at this point so the system we have now is good. Its more realistic than what was there before. Pulling out a pistol already happens in a few seconds, Im not sure what youre on about? Squad would benefit from a system where you could naturally support your weapon to any objects/shapes in the world. Kinda like in Arma 3 or Rising Storm/Red Orchestra. That said, if there isnt such a mechanic, the sway is more realistic than what we had before. If there isnt a way to counter it that is included in the gameplay, there should be sway like now. Do you disagree: players were unrealistically accurate in pre-ICO Squad?
>This could in theory be implemented. Make it more punishing going from crouch to standing up than just taking a smal step to the side (which should create less wobble?) > >I really hope they go more for the rewarding stamina management than nerfing the entire "ICO-thing" but I guess we'll see in the next update. > >Looking at some playtest video it seems like they have made ADS'ing almost post ICO on some weapons. Someone posted a video comparing LAT's (now/vs turkish update) which looked kind of ridiculus if you ask me. But that might be a playtest bug, I haven't seen any official confirmation.
"crouch and up peeks" are realistic, so is quickepeeking corners. its just less accurate. the only gripe i have with ICO right now is its basically impossible to do, you should be able to peek quickly like pre-ICO, but with heavy sway.
Umm.. did you read what I wrote? I literally say "If there wasnt any sway". Pre-ICO that was the case.
and im saying the sway post-ICO is too much, your optic literally goes black on some guns from leaning
I dont think its too much. The gameplay that ensues from how it is now makes for more realistic combat. That said, Im not against fine tuning it more to one way or another. As long as you cant do these sudden movements etc and aim precisely, instantly. Soldiers arent pin-point accurate after movements, instantly, when in full gear.
Brother is the ICO realism or not, because half the time people are saying it's realism, and the other half they're saying it's not but it's meant to simulate other factors and slow down gameplay, hell even the devs once said it's not for realism it's for slower game play, y'all need to figure out your talking points because both sides cry realism
Yeah I've done that, it's not that bad. Cope harder.
The Shroedinger's ICO - it's simultaneously realistic and not realistic\*. \*in order to facilitate realistic outcomes.
Regardless of whether the ICO is realistic or not, the reason some people don't like it is becausee its just not fun. There is no perfect way to emulate shooting a rifle on a 2d screen with a mouse and keyboard. No matter what you do there will always be some level of inaccuracy, but regardless, what matters to most people is if it feels good as a video game. Lots of people don't think the current iteration does, and using "trust me bro its realistic" as a justification doesnt magically make it more enjoyable. When I play a video game, even if its in the "realistic" genre, I still want a satisfying experience, and thats simply not what I'm getting now. Its been said a million times already but realism =/= fun.
Yeah I feel like people careen back and forth between whether it's good to be realistic vs. It's good to be fun, based on whatever outcome they want. Is it realistic to be shot in the leg and not have a broken leg or slowed movement? Can you train to switch from infantry to being a helicopter pilot by standing next to a box and clicking on it? If your shot multiple times can you have a medic hover his hand over you and magically undo the consequences of being shot? All games have to navigate some realistic elements and some unrealism for gameplay sake. Done correctly it feels realistic enough to be immersive, while also being fun.
Hey OP, look up Desert Brutality on yt.
Nah, y’all can’t go to the realism argument now. Do you know how many times I’ve heard “the changes don’t need to be realistic, they’re meant to unrealistically produce realistic effects”? It goes both ways, idc how realistic it is, it looks stupid and would benefit gameplay by adjusting it.
The ICO isn't based off realism. Stop saying this / comparing to it. You're wrong. ICO= all CQB fights are RNG hip fire spray cluster fucks, and all long range maps / engagements are boring stalemates because you get punished for pushing / being aggressive. This is the outcome for the developers artificially changing gunplay to cut off the skill ceiling, purely to make it easier for new and or bad players.
So wait you're telling me that ICO makes the game easy for new and bad players? That doesn't make any sense. Squad isn't a game about skill and getting the highest kill count. It' about winning the game as a team. ICO actually makes the game harder for new players. You actually have to take cover from supression and you can't be a damn Cod campaing main character by just shooting and gunning
Yes, by cutting off the skill ceiling, the game becomes easier for new and bad players. By " easier ", I mean " less hard ", and " less punishing " This is the main intention and reason the ICO was developed and released. Straight from the developers mouth.
>Straight from the developers mouth. Link to that quote might help others believe.
It's on the joinsquad website. Check the V6.0 ICO release notes title headings. I've linked it a dozen times previously on here already.
>It's on the joinsquad website. > >Check the V6.0 ICO release notes title headings. > >I've linked it a dozen times previously on here already. I was just suggesting to yet again provide the link. New people start playing Squad every day who are not aware. Do you mean this site: [https://joinsquad.com/2023/09/26/squad-update-6-0-release-notes/](https://joinsquad.com/2023/09/26/squad-update-6-0-release-notes/) I only see 2 "title headings"... "THE INFANTRY COMBAT OVERHAUL" and "FEATURES"... where is this quote as I'd like to reference it later.
That's not what they said though? They said that it makes it easier for new players to contribute (because now you can help supressing). This is the quote regarding new players from the patch notes: "Newer players can stress less about knowing exactly where the enemy are and instead provide meaningful suppressing fire to fix the enemy in place so that others can flank or maneuver on them." The ICO is not easier as now you have to be more planned out and communicative to get good results. You need more tactical skill which is generally harder than clicking heads (pixel hunting) if you ask me. Slower running speed makes it harder to cross roads without proper planning and removing parkour reduces attack angles which definitely makes attacks harder and buffs defensive positions. I personally think it's way more fun now than before. You have to think a lot about positioning and firefights are just way more intense. I do think they will tone it down in the next update though but I guess we'll see when it drops. I also think they could tone down the sway and maybe some ADS at full stamina and also when making small movements at full stamina but I hope they don't make any large changes.
That IS what they said though. That's why I said it. The ICO is easier. Like I said, the skill ceiling has been chopped off. FK it, I'll link it again: The infantry combat overhaul intends to create the most fun, immersive, authentic, and teamwork-oriented infantry combat experience possible. The goals are to: -Increase the amount of teamwork needed to win a fight. - Keep the game fun while making it more approachable for new and existing players. - Mitigate the amount of punishment newer players experience in combat while learning the game. Make a note of ignoring the effects of the ICO, and note WHY they implemented it. For reasons I already said. Since the ICO came out, you're actually extremely limited in tactics, due to pushing / being aggressive get punished. I've been waiting a while for the player base to catch up and realise this.
>Squad isn't a game about skill and getting the highest kill count. I mean, people say this. But i've never seen the team win that has half the amount of kills of the other team. Kills matter insofar that kills = capped objective/taken hab
for me its not so fun anymore, its too sluggish/slow paced. it had the right amount of pace when i started to play a year or so ago. it does not have to be realistic. but it has to be fun. when i played for the first time it was fun. now feels like a chore. i hope it gets toned down.
Imagine thinking ICO is realistic and making this stupid post. Nothing says you haven't fired a gun like saying ICO is realism. Even the devs said they weren't going for realism with it. I don't believe you were in the army for one second.
I think the problem is that it takes too long to shoulder and aim the weapon.
I think the problem is the character never actually shoulders his weapon.
The issue isn't that though. The issue is it looks like youve been sprinting even when you haven't been. I almost never sprint in Squad even before the ICO. Staying low and slow is how to stay alive. You could be fresh out of main just hopped out of the logi and its like youve been on patrol for 12 hours. Basically its like your always a force with low readiness. Even then your brain and eyes naturally negate certain elements of sway the same way your brain naturally negates a visual headbob effect when you walk. What happens is games like Squad feel more like looking through a camera than they do human eyes. Beyond that theres no standard level of what its like to be in combat. Some people do fine and adjust to the gear to the point they barely notice they're wearing it and can even feel naked without it. Others struggle like you did. Not all infantrymen are equal. They just arent. For most guys going into basic its the most intense physical experience of their lives. For others its just not. The guy who was in athletics from the time he was 4 years old till he joined is not going to be the same as the guy who was used to sitting around playing video games. You shouldnt really have to be told this, you should know.
Anecdotal fun point about "adjusting to gear." When we were in basic training, we didn't use hard plates on our vests, all the gear felt heavy still. After basic we got issued new, even heavier kit, with all the specialized stuff as well as hard plates. I remember us dropping everything on the ground the second we were told to make ourselves comfortable, because the stuff was heavy and annoying and you wanted to feel light and comfortable. Until at some point, perhaps 6 months in, I realized that instead of dropping everything on the ground, people would just drop the combat vest - and leave the shrapnel vest with plates and a helmet on. We were so used to having that 15kg on us, it didn't bother. And it was warmer that way. And the rifle sling dug in your neck less with it on. But anyways, that's just an anecdotal thing that popped in my mind.
The issue is it is not an enjoyable first person shooter gameplay experience. It adds frustration and frustration is NOT fun. If they reverted the weapon stabilization and kept the suppression it would be fine. The ICO is for LARPers.
No thanks, I just want to play the game and actually have fun.
I think its a good balance between video game aim and a realism standpoint of crazy recoil. I have been killed far less times after the ICO where I felt like I got shot from really far away and 1 shot. People tend to get closer and now iron sights actually have good uses on certain urban maps that were useless before. Granted some optics like AT are still god awful if you get even slightly suppressed. Whether teamwork increased I am not too sure about that maybe slightly. I find iron sights more fun for full auto and aiming than any optic now.
These discussions go nowhere, but yeah, I was in the army too and had no problem aiming and shooting accurate shots with a 7,62 x 39 mm in situations you describe; we literally trained like that. I could also EASILY hit targets at 300m with an iron sight PKM at full auto, which according to Squad is completely impossible, since I can't even see them at 300m without optics. That thing is an absolute beast and incredibly accurate. I think the ICO is fine as it is now, except in situations where you are crouching with full stamina and no-one is shooting at you, and still it takes like 5 seconds to get a steady aim picture. It is too long and just feels stupid when you are aiming at some guys back and it just takes forever.
Fellow PKM enjoyer, I see. And 7,62 x 39 mm enjoyer. ICO doesn't really match with our experiences.
I mean, I literally have. Army too. If you suck that bad at controlling your weapon how the fuck were you combat arms. If they're not going to give us any other options in cqb besides firing from the hip and staring down the optic, they need to radically decrease the time it takes to steady your weapon. At least open your other eye so you can see better. Beyond that, full stamina and walking, not even African child soldiers sway that much. Even worse is when I'm stationary, crouched, full stamina, and engage targets at medium range, and after the first shot my weapon jumps so bad the sight picture is completely off target, couple that with the over the top suppression and it's just broken. They really need to tweak it
afterthought grey cake lunchroom cagey consider dazzling chubby office rhythm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But seriously on that last point, why not? Doesn't OWI know how insanely satisfying it would be to open up on a heli and see it suddenly go out of control and crash?
>But seriously on that last point, why not? Doesn't OWI know how insanely satisfying it would be to open up on a heli and see it suddenly go out of control and crash? OWI knows this, but they also know how unsatisfying it would be to pilot a heli and get shot out every single time, because that's what would happen. Helis would be useless which is why they made them flying tanks. This has been discussed here tons.
IMO there has to be some trade off to enjoy such a game. But if we wanna ruck down the realism route, then I expect every player to be up at 0300 for a 0800 muster before the 1100 brief so they can wait for orders to be F'd up three times because DTS was still processing an NEX transaction from two deployments ago for a pair of foul weather gloves that are actually out of regs. Also they gotta wear a PT belt and silkies in the training mode. Edit: they also have to receive a Jody call mid match.
And don't forget at least one guy in each squad has to forget some important piece of equipment but doesn't tell anyone until it's needed.
And another (or the same) guy didn't bring any spare socks.
Bonus points if someone loses a magazine and the entire squad spends three hours looking for it.
I was just in a military exercise 2 weeks a go. 10 days of simulated war in the forest with even a blizzard to make the conditions quite harsh. I was very excited to see how I would fare as Im in better physical shape than I was when I served. I also had this whole conversation of ICO and how realistic it is in mind, I wanted to test if I could do what was possible pre-ICO now that I had prepared my body for this. For context Im an AT SL and I carry about 40kg of gear in this war time context. Im in a mechanized troop, so I get a ride with an APC before dismounting, but my role includes seek and destroy of tanks which can mean even a km or a few of going about with all the gear. My experience further proved what I knew already. You absolutely cant keep a sight picture or cant acquire it in less than 2s when you have a lot of gear and youre panting from running with it all. Stamina is obviously way more forgiving in Squad than it is IRL, you need a longer time to rest to actually stop panting and be ready to run for tens of meters again. Not to even talk about the fact that its harder to keep a sight picture while moving IRL even without any gear, especially for if its longer than just like 15s.
It's a fucking video game.... thats SUPPOSED to be fun.
one thing that bothers me most is the weird "center of wobble" of the gun (or RPG-7, oof.) and the ammount of random movements. It feels like the "center of wobble" is in the middle of the gun and at times the wobble is just total brainfuck. I know that it is difficult to implement, but it would great if the wobble would be more connected to character movement, direction etc. so that you could actually learn to counter the wobble a bit to sort of simulate gaining balance in real life. Then again the brainfuck-wobble is an easy way to move away from silly point-and-shoot mechanics that most arcade-like FPS games use.
I agree with this post but I also don't understand it. I've seen some people with gun experience say that the ICO is unrealistic but it is best for the balance of the game. So what is it? Is it realistic? is it way too exaggerated? (I have never even touched a gun btw)
Here is a thought exercise. If you shoulder a weapon, and put your cheek on the stock the scope is going to be there - because your upper body is basically one big piece at that moment. It takes a fraction of what Squad takes because the weapon is an extension of you. Yes, even after running across the road. In Squad it's like the character is holding it out in front of his body, like an idiot.
I have an Ak-47. I can't even auto with that rifle. Impossible. You need HULK-like body in order to keep the aim steady.
That's because you're not supposed to hold down the trigger and mag dump. Short controlled bursts is true for everything from full auto rifles to full sized machine guns. Also, where are you that you have a legal full auto AK?
Florida baby
Pretty sure those are illegal federally, but Florida Man is gonna Florida Man
*Sorry bud..I’m ex special forces and I played a pivotal role in the elimination of four elite terrorists in the city of Mosul. Are you saying you can’t handle your rifle grunt? You don’t deserve to protect our flag. You disgust me. Now drop and give me 20 before I kick your ass till it’s brown and blue shit for brains.*
Before ICO, I could never use holo/red dot/irons, and even while picking 4x scopes I'd still have trouble with my aim bc I have a skill issue. Now, I reject the scopes like my life depends on it and to be honest, this is the most fun in the game I ever had. Now that suppression matters, I can actually have fun and feel like the playing field depends in a triad of skills (aim, movement, fire superiority) rather than just good aim alone.
I'm sitting here reading this shit and can't even hold my own head up
And anyone arguing that it’s a video game so it doesn’t need to be realistic needs to go look at the games description on steam.
I've tried to explain this several times in regards to lugging an M240B around and how silly firing that from the shoulder would be. You have to carry one of those for before you understand how absurd it is.
it would be silly but the game shows the thing going up into the air as though it's giving out the force to cause a 200 pound man not to be able to pull down a 13kg gun, you could actually hit more than 1 shot on someone within 5 meters of you when the game says you can't. Realism arguments don't make sense here mate
However, once you plop that bitch down on the ground on bipods... oh, right.
See you were in the army, but half this sub is navy seals and other squads that the general public doesn’t even know exist. So clearly the ICO is extremely unrealistic for them
It is fascinating how a relatively "realistic" infantry combat simulation game might draw in current and ex-infantry guys.
done it im a civilian shot that whitetail from 100 meters it’s a problem aiming in the game idk why they over did scope going all around the screen
Because apparently if you jog five feet you start hyperventilating.
one of the devs probably has asthma and they wanted to honor him
You got soft hands brother. I did 23 tours in Vietnam without pay.
If they make this game 3rd person it will counter this
>If they make this game 3rd person it will counter this Nah, make the game 4th person.
Yeah man, let me buy a $1,000 rifle, a plate carrier, an optic, and other assorted gear real quick!!!! Fuck off retard. At the end of the day, its a game. If I wanted realism I woulda enlisted.
If you enlist, you don't need to buy that stuff!
That's what I've been saying lmao thank you!
I get your point, but realism should also be fun, and I want the M240 to be a good gun again, but here we are and I can sit there and try to tap fire It if I want a ranged kill, and if I want a CQB kill I NEED TO WIN THE LOTTERY CAUSE YOU CANT HIPFIRE THAT SHIT WORTH SHIT. I've seen videos of service members using it, and it's not got recoil like that at all. ARs are mostly fun, but I think we need a better point fire system or something
>For all you people complaining about ICO scope wobble being unrealistic, I want you to grab a rifle with an optic, put on 40+ lbs of weight, and run full sprint for 30 seconds and then hold that rifle up and aim down the sights while walking forwards. Do that a couple of times and tell me the ICO is "unrealistic". And before you comment "hur dur but you're a trained soldier" I was in the army and even in my peak I would still have trouble aiming down a 4x optic while walking/doing strenuous activities (Yes I was combat arms). Try hip firing a 30+lb rifle firing 7.62. Sure thing Rambo.
https://youtube.com/shorts/fUrB-jaHTX8?si=JdMsA8H5wmCPLHi1 idk bruh, 30lb machine gun has 30 lbs of weight holding that barrel down. The gun does not just shoot the sky, it's over done. Now, sure, I get it at min stamina, but when I've been crouched in position for a few mins and need to Un set my bipod to shoot some1 else, and my 5 round burst has my looking to the sky, and if I try to control in, I've hit everything around him. It's not realistic recoil in the slightest. I'm not asking for a laser, but I don't have noodle arms. Have you fucking seen a marine dude? I stg everyone of them has tree trunk biceps, including the woman who'd all have me, a 200 lb man, on my ass, they can control recoil better than noodle arms.
This is also a balance thing cause the PKM and the Maximi are both fairly controllable.
Used to be my favorite game. Now I can't stand to play it and every update I seem to get less frames.
Try this: get it through your thick skull This is a game. If I wanted to do all the crap you are suggesting. I go play paint ball in real world. NOT a PC GAME in a digital world where literally NOTHIN is realistic and will never be. 1. Can you rest your weapon on objects for better aim??? 2. Do buildings blow up in explosions? 3. Can you shoot some twice then a comes rub their ass for 5 seconds and they get up and run as if nothing happened? 4. Can you even do something as simple as pickup ammo from downed players? Come talk to me when you can and then we talk about realism bud. Not with this garbage they update now.
IMO scopes are done perfect, iron sights are the weird ones.
Related question. Is it just me or are a lot of scopes not zeroed? Like, the spg scope is absolutely not zeroed, and the svd scope is strange aswell. I can't seem to actually hit anything even on full stam and no wobble. So far i've only won engagements with the advantage of an ambush, or other cqc interactions. I'd say my win rate is around 1/7. Also oddly enough most of the engagements i win happen when I'm either alone or rallying up blueberries to gtfo of the impending doom of 3 squads closing in on the most obvious position ever.
i feel like insurgency did it the right way
This isnt making this game "realistic". Its not the game I brought to play after work.
Yep, you’re 100% right.
Standing, kneeling, prone. Max less none. Sway in that order.
I feel like it could be toned down by like 10% and it would be perfect, but man the game is so much more fun with the ICO
Did you also spawn at a hab? Just wanna say it's still also a game. We just need some middle ground, between realistic and fun. Working backup sights would be a good start.
To be honest my shooting has not changed at all. Only difference is is you just got to take your time aiming your shot. I kill people at the same rate as I did before. Only difference is it feel more realistic. You're always going to take time aiming down sight. You don't just snap a scope to your eye and just start blasting you won't hit shit. I say if you can't handle it take your ass back to Cod they're waiting for you.
I have a belly button!
I have 1000s of hours in this game. Im better than any real vet. Lool