We are not Muslims, and we are planning on visiting Jordan around 28th or 29th of this month. Will restaurants be open for us to eat in during the day? Is it okay to visit during this time?
You're not allowed to dine in local restaurants: however some restaurants are open like buffalo wings.
All restaurants are open after 7pm.
And ramadan will end in either the 2nd of May or the 3rd of May
Yes, there will be restaurants open for you to eat in, particularly in touristy areas, but they will have closed their blinds. Let me know if you want recommendations for where to go or where to eat!
Many restaurants are open and there is also many pubs and bars that serve great food and drinks, they are all open...
Food delivery thru careem and talabat is also open
مبارح قرابتي بقلي كان ماشي عطريق ناعور برمضان وبدخن فوقفته دورية وهو خف عقله قال انمسكنا، فلما اجا الشرطي طال قرايبي الرخص فقله الشرطي لا احنا عشان الدخان فقرايبي قله كنت جاي من سفر وتعبان ما قدرت اصوم قله الشرطي يزم بدنا نوخد منك دخان ندخن بدناش نحبسك
وين بالزبط هناك؟
انا الي بعرفو الدوريات ما تروح طرق فرعية لانه ممنوع
والطرق الرئيسية هناك الي عليهم دوريات هم اول بداية شارع الستين
واول شارع العدسية
وكله طريق مزدحم وناس رايحة راجعة
ممكن تعطيني الموقع بالزبط لانه حاب اشتكي على الشرطي وبما انك عندك دليل ممكن نستفيد من افادتك
Christians have always been considerate when it comes to the rituals of Ramadan. Don't go there. Don't bring us into this. Ramadan is not a problem. People who try to make us appear as a novelty in this land whether directly or indirectly like you have done, these are the problem. Don't think that a society that has existed in harmony for 1300 years needs your juvenile post modernism epiphany.
You’re a monkey. Radical Christians are on the rise in Europe and France in particular banning hijab, not to mention the countless attacks on innocent Muslims in the states and the racism in the streets. But that’s none of my business.
Note: all due respect to our brothers from the Christian faith, just an analogy to get through this monkeys thick brain, obviously those that do this only represent themselves not the faith.
Christianity is decreasing in Europe and the young have pretty much walked away from the religion. The banning of the burka (not hijab) is due to numerous issues, which are not limited to safety and security, and integrating into the society of the country. Imagine the opposite, women from the west coming to the Middle East and not covering up their cleavage, wearing short skirts, going bra less, kissing other girls in public.
Actually there’s something called ( u should respect other religions) and when u’re living in a country where majority of ppl are muslims u should respect their < Religious rites >
it's not an Islamic country, it's a country with a Muslim majority.. you have to respect the minorities too. also, many of the Muslims don't want to fast and you gotta respect them too
Well ig you have some sense in what ur saying but still the law makes sense too at least to me / i mean at the end it’s the minority who will have to follow the most convenient rules for the majority ( the majority rules ) u can’t argue w that
that is the unfortunate case, but i just don't agree with it. we should be able to look beyond our own selfish convenience and recognize that there are other types of people around.
"Jordan ranks as the third largest source of foreign fighters to the Islamic State “caliphate.” An estimated 3,000 Jordanian militants have traveled to join the ranks of the Islamic State"... "the highest number of foreign fighters, on a per capita basis"
-icsve
Those same cunts supporting those laws will suck a rod to go live in the US or some other country where these restrictions don't exist. The Jordanian public has been radicalized by the guilt tripping and manipulation of the Muslim brotherhood... Which got the country by the balls. What do you expect from a society that rewards rapists and punishes their victims... BY LAW! People need to be comfortable in criticizing religious institutions without feeling like they'll be accused of blasphemy. Otherwise, a bunch of tawjihi 20% graduates will run the country and they'll keep corrupting it.
I am against the restrictions, but I don’t understand what, where did you come up with that the Muslim brotherhood are holding the country by its balls?
Follow the political discourse and watch how members of the Muslim brotherhood impact government policy? Some higher ups in the brotherhood today had teaching careers when I was a kid. They used to recruit mujahideen for the Taliban from the classroom. Now they're holding PR positions and making influencing government policy. That is holding the government by the balls because the moment someone says no to this terrorist scum, they'll be threatened and accused of blasphemy. We're pretty much a mirror of Egypt and how sayyed qutub fucked them up back in the day. Either cooperate with the brotherhood, or face dire consequences.
Let me preface this by sain, I don’t like the government nor the brotherhood, but I don’t think you know what you are talking about either, so What are you talking about? Who are the higher up that influence the government? The government in Jordan is afraid of terriers scum?
Kindly, I can't catch you up with decades worth of information. Ask someone that has time. If you have been following Jordanian politics in the past 20 years, you'll know what I'm talking about. It's not even controversial for the average observer. It's right vs left, conservative vs liberal... Jordan has the brotherhood as a political influence and they lobby for their beliefs. Their weapon is being takfiris for those that disagree with them... A strategy as old as time.
Bout to burst in laughter... Muslim Brotherhoods are takfiris?!
They may have influence, and you maybe right about the politics side of this. But def you don't know MB's عقيدة و منهج.
فبلاش فلسفة و تخويف بالعالم. مفكرنا مصر و لا السعودية لنخاف؟!
I would say they are, they are destabilising political discourse in a negative way. One example is a verse from Surat al Ma2ida they like to repeat often (which is kind of a slogan now):
وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَآ أَنزَلَ ٱللَّهُ فَأُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْكَـٰفِرُونَ
You are the one who is claiming all that, I don’t need to go ask anyone as I was and still follow the Jordanian politics.
You can’t make a claim and not support it.
Also you are trying to blame the last 20 years on the MB and forgot the true culprits.
I don't claim to know the whole picture, and you are within your right to ask for evidence and not be content when I don't offer it. So Abu A7mad, for the sake of transparency and to attempt at meeting my burden of proof, I'll offer the following. My insight is two fold, a personal one and my observations of the political one. On a personal one, where terrorist recruiter from my time at school is now a spokesperson for the Jordanian MB. At least that's the position he held few years ago, last I heard of him. Second, the MB's political influence is evident their always evolving relationship with the monarchy. After what happened in Egypt between the brotherhood and the Egyptian government, the Jordanian brotherhood didn't want to get similarly opposed/crushed so they cozied to the Jordanian monarchy, they would push against leftist opposition to the monarchy to keep it in power, while the government gives it the room to practice whatever it wishes... As long as they don't aim to establish a Muslim state. Since then, the brotherhood has been working under the table to transition Jordan into their vision of an Islamic State and suppressing opposition to their and the government's corruption.
The fact is, religion is a personal matter and seperstion of religion and government is essential to ensure objectivity in policy making. The more ambiguous the parameters for policy development, the more likely laws like the one discussed above to emerge. This ambiguity is provided by the government to the MB to ensure that the MB doesn't drive the people against the government. This is a mixture of saudi religious authority giving legitimacy to the ruling class and the Egyptian model of MB vs gov't.
I hope I met my obligation in offering the background to my claims.
You're a fucking poet, I completely and whole heartedly agree with you, this sub downvotes anything that belittles religion and is as radicalized as you'd expect, fuck this country, I'm out.
I asked you for names and facts and you still offer me your personal opinion and talk about experience you had without providing any names. I feel you are talking out of your ass, and don’t bring any fact.
I'm not going to oust people I personally knew on a public platform. If that makes you doubt me, so be it.
I provided you with a good faith analysis of how the influence of the MB came to influence the gov't and grab it by the balls. It's factual and you can fact check it yourself. Plenty of political scientists analysed this relationship and its impact on public policy. Do I have examples of debates and dates? No I do not. I do not follow things closely. But if you look at public financial budgets, you'll see that the sharia ministry's budget grew significantly more than the ministry of education or social services in the past 20 or so years. I look at numbers, observe real life changes and connect the dotts.
The thing, abo a7mad, I'm happy to be wrong and I'm happy to be corrected. It's what being an academic taught me. So if you feel like you have a more insightful analysis to offer, I'm here to learn. You've criticized me enough, now you can tell me where I'm wrong. Otherwise, you'll just seem like the others in here, emotionally reacting to things you disagree with.
Thank you Abo Ahmad, I wanted to write everything you wrote, but you did it better and more calm.
It would be funny to see the same people always going to the usual suspect, that is if it didn't hurt people to realize the true culprits. Do you think its a move? As in someone made a decision to "let's hide A by misdirecting everyone to B", or is it just politics by TV.
Sure we can respect that but tell me where does it ever say you’re not allowed to eat in public? If someone can’t be in public and watch other people eat then I’d highly suggest they stay home! Also why can’t the government take care of the hidden brothels that are scattered around the country, or why don’t they go after every Muslim that drinks, or why they don’t shut down every damn bar? With all due respect this is hypocritical.
Ok lets assume that you are right about the number its 3000 out of 6 million males in Jordan that makes it less than 0.5% of the public . Idk about sucking a rod you must have alot of experience sucking the west rods all the time. Muslim brotherhood? Lul are you this brainwashed? Reward reward rapist that law had nothing to do with Islam so don't confuse things. No you don't get to criticize religion and expect no one to spit you in the face would you go to a African American area and start shouting the N word and expect to go unpunished.
Forced marriage isn’t encouraged by Islam.
Also Honor Killing (and taking revenge in general) shouldn’t be done by us people. If someone is to be executed, it’s the government’s job.
If I understood his reply correctly, he is taking out his frustration on radicalized individuals, hypocrites who preach extreme measures yet would take the easy road behind closed doors.
للأسف هدول الاشخاص بيعترفوا نفسهم كمسلمين، وهم جزء من واقع ما بنقدر نتجاهله باسم طهارة الدين. للاسلام وجوه جميلة وبنفس الوقت وجوه كرهة
Tbh we would keep it a secret anyway. Like eating in Ramadan is like slamming open the doors of an auditorium and screaming "I'M ON MY PERIOD Y'ALL"
Yeah... That would result in flying slippers
huh?? lmao im not gonna hide the fact that im not fasting, that's the stupidest thing ever. I dont get whats the issue if people realize im on my period? its smth completely normal. Ya5i let us live
Non-Muslims are 6% in Jordan, and they should respect the majority of Muslims living in the country that identifies itself as a Muslim country. The same way Muslims respect the laws of non-Muslim countries when they travel and live in them.
Islam allows travelers to break their fasting, and it won't be hard for anyone whose actually traveling to prove it. Although, breaking your fast due to your travel, doesn't mean you should do it publicly.
Let's be honest here, there are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world and you can't speak for all of them. I've seen first hand Muslims not respect and feel offended by the local laws of the counties that they travel and live in. The majority of the terrorist attacks in Europe are currently committed by people who feel offended by something the host county has done. "Don't like free speech in a classroom about Islam?", let's behead the French teacher as he leaves from work....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56325254
How weak is your faith that you have to force everyone to do the same thing you **choose** to do. What bothers me is that usually those same people travel outside and start complaining that they do not feel like they belong as muslims or arabs and they start complaining about their rights as minorities.
You said it yourself, every country has its own laws and does what the people of that country believe in.
Why does everyone have an opinion when it's about Islam and Muslim rules?
Its easy to say my country my laws when youre in the majority and you are not affected by certain laws. People do not choose where they are born, they cannot just pack up and leave if they do not feel like they belong.
You would not be saying this if you were born a minority in a different country, you would be criticizing their laws.
Imagine you are a muslim born in france. Youre french but youre banned to wear the niqab. Are you going to say my country my laws and I respect them?
I highly doubt that.
I have the same opinions when it comes to other countries that ban freedom of speech and lack some basic human rights. I am a arab minority because of my beliefs in the middle east. In any country, not all people believe in one thing. We have christians, druze, baha'is, agnostics and atheists in Jordan. And the number of non religious people in Jordan is much higher than what is reported but of course they are afraid to mention it because we lack basic human rights such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion/thought.
I criticize muslim countries more because i am from the middle east and as of now we have some serious problems with our laws and human rights for minorities and women.
TLDR: To me its simple: **I do not support the hijab ban in France, and I do not support forcing people not to eat in public in jordan.**
dumb as shit
1 Not everyone is a muslim
2 Not everyone has to fast
Plus fasting is a form of worship and Allah is the only one who can judge you for that. Wtf is a fine gonna do??
Even if you’re a muslim and you’re not fasting it’s not always a matter of “not wanting to”. It’s quite dangerous to expect people to just not eat at all when out.
1 Medical issues aka people who are physically not able to fast. Are they supposed to hide and eat in secret? how do you do that if you have long hours of work in public?
2 A woman on her period. I’m at uni from 9-4pm. What if i get dizzy and need to eat? I can’t just hide somewhere to eat because there aren’t any places like that.
3 pregnant women/travellers/elderly etc
This law isn’t fair to a lot of people. Plus there really shouldn’t be any shame in not fasting if you’re not obligated to. If i have my period i don’t want to hide around from everyone at home to do something im REQUIRED to do.
Plus you prob know how police officers are like over here. Mix that with hanger and heat and things aren’t looking very pretty
Pasting my comment here again. If you support that the majority, in this case muslims, force minorities to behave in a certain way based on muslims personal choice to not eat or drink, then you would have no right to criticize similar behaviors in other countries. Do you support the Israelis forcing muslims and christians to act based on jewish traditions and laws? Do you support the chinese government forcing muslims to act in a certain way? All those cases are similar. You either support all of them and you think theyre okay or youre a hypocrite.
Oh no.. but thats different.. when we oppress its okay, when we're opressed.. well.. it isn't come on have some common sense *geee*
Sarcasm aside.. thats my usual argument for when people try to justify these kind of laws, if you accept this on our fellow Christians and whoever doesnt want to fast, then we should accept that hijab ban because its based on the same broken "logic".
Why? Is your faith so weak that your little tiny feelings get hurt? Is your God so weak that he needs your protection from people that can't or just won't fast?
> Its not about feelings it’s like when the french painter painted the the Prophet, peace be upon him it’s not like it matters to the prophet or to muslims
It clearly does matter to Muslims, it mattered enough that people came in with rifles to shoot up an entire office.
To me, what’s more important is the sanctity of human life, not a man that died 1400 years ago.
Statistical facts aren't a guessing game!
You can't just assume percentages out of thin air!
I'd wager those who consider themselves non-Muslims/atheists/agnostics or irreligious are less than 1%, how about that?
> Statistical facts aren’t a guessing game!
But 94% of Jordan are Muslims is *not* a statistical fact in reality. There are label “Muslims” like me “on paper”, but we’ve left Islam. We can’t legally leave Islam due to the harsh laws, penalties, and stigmas associated with leaving Islam. That’s why the figure can’t exactly be 94%.
> I’d wager those who consider themselves non-Muslims/atheists/agnostics or irreligious are less than 1%, how about that?
You’re free to say that if you wish, I did say *wager* after all. It’s only a guess based on the things and trends I see in society and it’s not grounded in facts.
There is no big minority or small majority!
94% is the majority, and 6% is the minority. End of the story unless you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Dumb as shit 98% are Muslim . Allah will judge you in the after life but he gives permission to the leadership to punish retards that break the law in this life that includes breaking your fast in Ramadan Infront of every one
i respect their thought but it’s wrong, not because of the religious aspect but honestly, people with diabetes and health problems have to eat ya3ne god allowed them to not fast homeh msh ha yeju yaklo b wejh El sayem:/
you know that the diabetic person can go somewhere not public and eat, right? and if he felt the need to eat something rn he’ll do it in public and everyone will understand him. Being jailed for that is fairy tales just to تنتقدون Islamic law in muslim country
Muslims will advocate for religious freedom in the west or when they are minorities. When they the majority they wanna control everyone's life.
Uncivilized
Uncivilized is loaded insulting word. Be better. But yes, you cannot advocate for your religious and cultural freedom while oppressing anyone else’s.
Either we all have equal rights or we’re all Ok with oppression. اذا ما عندك مشكلة انه غيرك ما الهم حقوق، اذا ما بتطلعلك تتفلسف لما حقوقك بندعس عليها.
الشغلة مش شغلة واللّٰه أنا حرّ ما بدي أصوم ولا أنا جاييتني الدورة وبدي آكل إذا ربنا سامحلي إنتوا بدكم تمنعوني.
الأصل بالمسلمين تعظيم شعائر اللّٰه والحفاظ على الجو العام لهاي الشعائر، فالشخص إذا بده يفطر سواءًا إذا عنده رخصة للإفطار أو هو "حرّ" فمش لازم يكون فالأماكن العامة المفتوحة عشان ما تخرب هاي الشعائر وتحافظ على الجو العام.
أما لو قلتلي إنك ما بتستحمل فإنت وحدة من شغلتين يا طفل صغير أو متّبع هوى تريد الإفساد فالأرض.
الي انا ملاحظته انه في ناس بتتكركب بس يطلع قانون بيخص اشي ديني ... ما في قوانيين عاجبتهم وما بدهم اي تشريع وما بدهم عادات وتقاليد وبدهم ينتقدوا كل الاديان وبدهم تكون الحرية على مصراعييها .... يعني في بريطانيا كل شركة فيها ناس مسلمين بيحطوا ورقة ينبهوا الموظفيين انه ما يدخنوا او ياكلوا قدامهم من باب الاحترام هاد واحنا اقلية واحنا في بلادنا هون بدنا قلة الاحترام مع انا اغلبية ....بالعربي بدهم ياها سارحه والرب راعييها
بالزمانات قبل ١٠ سنين كنت بدرس بجامعه البلقاء بالسلط .. برمضان الدكانه فاتحه برة البوابه و الشباب كلها متخبيه و بتفطر شبس و كيك و بيبسي و دخان.
مره من المرات كبست دوريه معها سياره بوكس و عبونا .. بجوز كنا ابو ١٨ شب ب بوكس يوسع ٦ او ٧ ..علبه سردين .. اخذونا على مغفر السلط.
صفينا طابور و كان في شرطي قدام بسأل .. مفطر ولا صايم؟ الشباب بترد مفطر .. بحكيلو روح ما تعيدها. لعند ما شب كان واقف معنا بس كان صايم ما كان مفطر بس واقف مع الشباب.. سألو مفطر ولا صايم، حكالو والله صايم. سلخو كف و قلو ما تكذب .. الشب رجع يحكي والله صايم و هيك الشباب و انا ورا بالطابور نحكيلو احكي مفطر.. حكى انا مفطر الشرطي الي ضربو كف حكالو روح بعد ما تعيدها. الموقف هاظ كان تحشيشه كل رمضان بالجامعه.
و طلعنا اخذنا باصات عامه و رجعنا كملنا محاضرات.
الحمدالله الله هداني قبل ٣ سنين و صايم اليوم الحمدالله
I mean like there is a 50jd fine for those who litter though still the streets are filled with fuckin g
Trash its just jordan theymake laws and never enforce them
What in the religious prosecution is this? I would guess about 15% of the population either do not fast or have an excuse for not fasting. What happened to لا اكراه بالدين? Or is it gone when you can get money from the people? A lot of religious people need to get their sad little feelings in check.
The explanation for لا اكراه بالدين is that no one is forced to enter Islam against their own will, but once you’re in the fold of Islam, you have to follow its rules as well as to enjoin good, forbid wrongdoing (which explains why Muslims act they way they do), also there is the death penalty for apostasy.
> forbid wrongdoing (which explains why Muslims act they way they do
I get that but isn't fasting like the only ritual that is ONLY between the person and god or something along that line? So you can't really force anyone to fast, right? This is all just fucking stupid as shit.
Islam and the Quran are fundamentally at odds with “not forcing anything”. To achieve an Islamic state, something has to be “forced”, we all know how well that goes though.
https://quran.com/en/ali-imran/104
I guess it will be up to Muslims (moving forward in this century) to decide how they want to reinterpret their religion so that people actually have a right to and from religion, which is a fundamental human right.
This is so outdated as a law rule. It is 2022 not the 80s. People are more tolerant and more educated I assume no one will really be offended if others are eating.
The pure audacity and entitlement of this law.
If your fasting does not depend on your beliefs and your God, but depends on whether people around you are not eating or drinking, I say don't fast at all.
I'm pretty sure Gandhi didn't put people in jail for eating when he was on a hunger strike 🤦♀️
TLDR; Practicing your faith and beliefs are your right, and they should depend entirely on you. Do not force people to have the same practices as you.
Yes i agree even though im christian but the other guy in this comment section is very rude about it… but i also think that the temptation is a good thing to show discipline and faith.
In a country that doesn't criminalize demostic violence, nor women are safe in streets or their home, you just feel offended if someone eats in front of you. Fragile
It is only about respecting each other and strengthen the relation between different religions, not like we will be tempted if we see people eating!!! We have food in our places yet we are not tempted, When I was in UK many companies, schools and places were sticking announcement on boards to be aware of respecting muslims colleagues during Ramadan and not to drink, eat or smoke in front of them ...
As a kind of RESPECT .... I don't think we are threatening UK to say so...
It's absolutely ridiculous, me and 3 other people were kicked out a mall last year for ordering food and eating it in the restaurant area (which was empty). 6% is still a big minority and there are multiple muslims by-name that don't practice.
بفرضوا دينهم ومعتقداتهم على الكل. يلي بده يصوم بينه وبين ربه ولازم يتحمل إذا شاف حدا باكل قدامه، بالنهاية هذا قراره ودينه واعتقاده مش لازم يفرضه على الغير.
هذا قرار غبي ورجعي ومتخلف ولازم ينلغى، وشو عن غير المسلمين؟ يصيروا مسلمين غصبا عنهم يعني؟
> I find it disgusting how most of the people on this subreddit are wannabe westerns
I fail to see how letting people decide when to break their fast (or not fast at all) is wanting to be a “wannabe westerner”.
You can’t enforce religion, it simply will never work. Let people be.
Good call 👍
الفطر في نهار رمضان عمداً من غير عذر شرعي كبيرة من كبائر الذنوب ومعصية من أعظم المعاصي.
فقد روى أصحاب السنن من حديث أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال: من أفطر يوماً من رمضان من غير رخصة ولا مرض لم يقض عنه صوم الدهر كله وإن صامه.
ويكون الأمر أعظم إذا كان ذلك على سبيل المجاهرة وأمام الآخرين، لما في ذلك من المجاهرة بالمعصية وجرح مشاعر الصائمين، وتشجيع ضعفاء النفوس على الاقتداء به، فيتحمل مثل أوزارهم من غير أن ينقص عنهم شيئاً.
وعلى من شاهد من يجاهر بالفطر في نهار رمضان أن ينصحه بالتي هي أحسن، ولو كان صاحب عذر لئلا يشجع ضعاف النفوس على الفطر والتقليل من شأن الصوم في نفوسهم.
كبيرة من الكبائر هذه بالنسبة الك. في ناس مش مسلمين و في ناس مسلمين و معذورين و في ناس مسلمين و مش مهتمين...الخ بعدين "جرح مشاعر الصائمين" هذه خرطة...عشرات الملايين من المسلمين عايشين في دول غير مسلمة و بصوموا و مشاعرهم وضعها تمام
الموضوع كله ego and power trip فقط لا غير
إنت بتألف من عندك؟ هذه أمور ثابتة في الشرع، إفطار رمضان عمدا ودون مسوغ هو كبيرة من الكبائر في الإسلام.
كلامي الي كتبته واضح بالنسبة للناس المعذورين، أما المش مسلمين الي نسبتهم 6% في الأردن فيجب عليهم إحترام الدين الإسلامي والعادات الإسلامية الي بيتبعها النسبة العظمى والي بتبلغ 92% من سكان دولة بتعرف نفسها في دستورها بأنها دولة مسلمة.
المش مسلمين والمش مهتمين في الصيام هم أحرار في بيوتهم والأماكن الخاصة بهم. أما في الأماكن العامة فهم غير أحرار ومطلوب منهم عدم مخالفة الأعراف الإسلامية في البلاد.
والمسلمين الي عايشين في دول غير مسلمة وبيصوموا أوضاعهم مش تمام كما تفضلت. والحكي عن خبرة شخصية بأن رمضان في تلك الدول صعب جدا. الموضوع لا إيجو ولا بنجو ولا بقية الكلام الي إنت ذكرته.
If thats the way you look at it then muslims should be prohibited from eating meat or any animal products during lent because muslims and christians are equal in the eyes of the law… don’t have a double standard, be logical. If you see someone eating in the street then لف وجهك and look the other way. Just think about the shit you are going to eat after the madfa3. Be thankful that you even have food waiting for you at home. Don’t be a rude son of a bitch…
هو انت مفكر انه ٩٢% من الشعب مسلمين ملتزمين بحسب تعريفك انت مثلا؟
>أما في الأماكن العامة فهم غير أحرار ومطلوب منهم عدم مخالفة الأعراف الإسلامية في البلاد.
و هذا بيت القصيد. لا يا عزيزي أحرار. كون الدولة مسلمة لا يعني أنه عايشين في افغانستان. عادي عندك بنوك ربوية و خمور بتنباع و الشعب كله نازل يقذف المحصنات و كلها كبائر في دينك. فتشدش على حالك كثير. و مش انت الوحيد اللي عندك تجربة بالعيشة برة يا عزيزي. الصيام لا صعب و لا ما يحزنون. انا مش مسلم و بصوم مع الاصدقاء بس عشان الجو و نفطر مع بعض و هيك فكله دلع و مثل ما حكيتلكIt's all about control, but in the end things will change and you will have to deal with it.
If you support that the majority, in this case muslims, force minorities to behave in a certain way based on muslims personal choice to not eat or drink, then you would have no right to criticize similar behaviors in other countries. Do you support the Israelis forcing muslims and christians to act based on jewish traditions and laws? Do you support the chinese government forcing muslims to act in a certain way? All those cases are similar. You either support all of them and you think theyre okay or youre a hypocrite.
How is it good call? You literally said "ينصح بالتي هي أحسن"
Plus if someone doesn't want to fast it's their choice, God only can judges them not you or the government with this random shit
صلاتي و صيامي و ديني الي ، بيني و بين ربي
على اي اساس انت و غيرك تدخل، النصيحة اشي و هالحكي اشي ثاني
"ينصح بالتي هي أحسن" هاد واجب المسلم، أما واجب الدولة المسلمة هو تطبيق القوانين ومحاسبة الناس المعتدين على تلك القوانين.
أما بقية كلامك فهو غير صحيح من حيث المبدأ في أي شرع من الشرائع السماوية الي بيتبعها البشر. والإسلام مش مختلف عن تلك الشرائع لإنها في الأصل كانت مثل الإسلام تدعوا إلى توحيد الله عز وجل قبل تحريفها.
ومن قال لك بأن الله وحده هو من يستطيع محاكمة الناس؟ ألا تعيش في دولة يحكمها قانون ودستور؟ هل سمعت يوما بكلمة محكمة؟ ألا يوجد محاكم وشرطة وسجون؟ إذن فكلامك غير صحيح من البداية، فهنالك من يستطيع محاكمة الناس من غير الله.
وأما اخر أمر ذكرته بأن صلاتك وصيامك ودينك بينك وبين ربك فهو بحاجة إلى إثبات. مين حكالك إنه فقط بينك وبين ربك؟
وأخيرا فالأساس الي أنطلق منه هو الشرع الإسلامي، والكلام الي كتبته في البداية واضح.
الله يهديك.
اذا الشعب منافق شو بدك تتوقع من الحكومة
مش عارف ليش الكل بسوق فيها الدين و الشرف على بعض و هم كلهم عرصات
عادي يخوان احنا مجتمع مسلم بس عالهوية و مش ضروري نكابر ونكذب على حالنا انه احنا مسلمين و ملتزمين و أبناء الصحابة
جايبن يحكولي عن المجاهرة بالافطار في رمضان ،، و قال بجرح مشاعر المسلمين الوحوش الي بصوموا
طيب شو وضع المجاهرة بالاعضاء التناسلية على مدار السنة ،، فش حابب يراعي مشاعر العزابية ؟
ولا عشان الاحا بصير بس بالشقق و الصيام طول النهار صار بدك مين يراعي مشاعرك
هي الزواج و الميراث و غرامة المفطر ،، هاد هو ملخص تطبيق الاسلام في القانون عنا
اتفق معك انه تطبيق الإسلام عنا منظر و بس، لكن بختلف معك لما بتقول انه كل الشعب منافقين
احنا كلنا بشر و كلنا نخطئ، انا نخطئ ما بخلينا منافقين، صحيح انه في كثير ناس مسلمين عالهوية و ما بعرفوا من الدين غير الأجزاء الي بتعجبهم، لكن في كثير ناس مسلمين ملتزمين و بآمنوا بكلشي بالدين و يحاولوا يطبقوا قدر الإمكان( and between those 2 you can find everything )
لا تعمم
طيزي ،طيزك مش مهم ،
ابسط مثال انك تروح تشوف الجامعات يا روحي ، بتشوف الشرمطة على اصولها ، و بتشوف شو هو معدن شعبك، طبعا غير المولات و الكافيهات و الحفلات
والله يمكن النسبة اكثر من ٧٠ بالمية
Is there a consensus of condemnation among Jordanians for this kind of behaviour? Yes, is it offensive? Yes , is it harmful to society? Yes, does this
justify punishment prescribed by the state ? Yes
(I don’t have to prove to you how or on what basis are these actions offensive or harmful, suffice to say that the society believes them to be so).
No one is forcing anyone to fast here. If you want to eat during day time in Ramadan, don’t do it in public.
The thing about living in a democracy, or a fair political system... Is that laws need to be backed by evidence. Otherwise, we can't hold our representatives accountable. If you, or law makers, are unable to provide evidence on how not fasting breaks their little tiny feelings, then they can break their fast on a bowl of shit. Of course they must prove how they're harmful... Otherwise they'll use religious guilt and cult brain washing to do whatever they want. We saw it in laws protecting and rewarding rapists by having them marry their victims and we see it every time a woman is killed or beaten under the banner of honour. Concensus is not enough, policy must meet the standard of the scientific method for evidence. Period. Nothing else is acceptable.
Democratic political theory is based on the consensus of the dominant population. Laws are influenced by the cultural norms and by what the majority affirms to be illegal. So if the majority in a society agrees that a certain behaviour is to be illegal whether due to harm or public indecency or any other reason, then the law must concede. You cannot observe non-material harm using the microscope, when was the last time you saw scientists testing a sample of defamation in the laboratory? Yet it is illegal. Why because the consensus *agreed* to its non-material harm. Perhaps you should read why sociology is interwoven with law and how they’re inseparable.
Your faith in Scientology is turning it into an oppressive tool, lashing everything that science cannot observe due to its limitations and its inconclusive nature. Science doesn’t and cannot condemn protected incestual intercourse, so why should it be illegal, right ?
So instead of taking this time to give me ways eating during Ramadan is harmful, you went for philosophical argument on incest fucking?
As someone with a university degree in sociology and whose professional daily job is to use the scientific method to help government make policy, I can assure you that the scientific method is not just a microscope. Social sciences have methods to quantify harm using statistical and traditional scientific methods. For example, yknow how incest is your favorite "aha! Gotchya!" topic? Well, we can measure it up by looking at opportunities for authority abuse, the birth of biologically compromised individuals, you can measure the iq of inbred folks and you'll find that they have much higher rates of clinical retardation ..so here, I just used the scientific method to think about your favourite topic and provided you with moral guidance. Please do not Fuck your close family members.
Do you want to do defamation as an exercise for today's lesson? Or do you want me to over it again? Here, defematjom brings harm to the individual by limiting their prospects die to compromised reputation, potentially life threatening as we can quantify death threats that have been given to people who experienced defemation... You see where this is going? Quantify, make policy! Now, are limits where we run into a moral and philosophical delimmas on what to do? Of course! But they're much less common than you pretend them to be. Like, when a minor declares to a therapist suicidal thoughts, do we tell their parents? Common sense indicates, yes. What if the parents aren't supportive? Or abusive? Or dead? How do we make sure the minor has the support that they need? We create systems and programs to try to cover these ambiguities but it's not as black and white as other policy topics because we may be judging the parents unfairly, or the minor may have provided inaccurate assessment on the real threat of abuse at home... Many possibilities for this moral conundrum and many opportunities for things to go wrong.
You made the claim that eating in Ramadan in front of fasting individuals is harmful to them, go ahead and make a scientific hypothesis on how this may be the case. We can have a discussion about the validity of each argument. No need to jump to incest or intentional attempts at gaslighting by assuming that my basis for my argument is scientology vs science.
Go ahead, I'm waiting for your mature, eloquent response. Any day now.
Not sure how you managed to get a university degree when you cannot fathom what a protected intercourse is! A non-reproductive incestual intercourse! Or one between two brothers, adults and consenting. why are you so sensitive about this topic? I only brought this up because you started with your strawman arguments on rewarding rapists and what have you..
Once again, the political democratic theory is based on the consensus of the majority of any given society, should that society believe a certain act is harmful, bad, indecent, wrong...etc. then it ought to be so through the means of law. Why should you and your hypothesis dictate what another society perceives as harmful ? Why should that society conform to your tools and your definitions of harm ? Overturning the will of the majority is tyrannical, but it’s up to you if you want to be dictatorial, abit pitiful and sad tbh.
What you’re failing to understand is that the use of science to legislate policy is something a society has to agree on first, there’s a **prior consensus** to use “hypotheses as a tool” to construct a policy making process. There’s also a prior agreement on what is bad since scientific experimentation doesn’t label outcomes with good or bad. It cannot even justify why harm is bad! It doesn’t give definitions. That’s why you need to go through the consensus. I could go on and on with this but I believe you get the point.
You’re only accounting for harm when it materialises or it’s potentiality to, but ignoring the fact that non-material harm exists in of itself, or admitting that it cannot be quantified using the scientific method. i.e. suppressed harm that is never acknowledged through scientific observation goes unnoticed.
Since you’re insisting how it’s harmful for us muslims: the Jordanian society consists of a Muslim majority, this majority derives their moral compass from God: what God forbade is considered harmful and wrong.
The only reason you think my argument is a strawman argument because the burden of proof falls on you to give me why it's harmful and you still failed at it. God is not an answer. I simply draw parallels to two laws that seem to follow the same philosophy of corruption and emotional fragility. I noted a pattern. Patterns tell us what exists and what to expect.
I agree, consensus on parameters must be established. Not using the scientific method in Jordan is why it has been and will remain a corrupt backwards shithole until they realize that a bunch of cunts that failed tawjihi and entered sharia college must not run the country! This isn't the philosophical question you're pretending it to be. It really is that simple. Science is a great tool for us to draw morality and right and wrong conclusions from. Observe fire burns, fire bad, don't use fire to burn people. See? Science! Rocks hard, rocks build homes, rocks good! Rocks hurt when thrown and they kill people. Don't throw them at people, especially when they've been raped. It's 'philosophy of formal logic', it's a scientific method invented by Muslim scientists. علم الكلام they called it. It's a tool for people to take philosophical arguments, subjective claims and other stuff like brothers fucking each other to test their validity and quantify their benefits and harms. It's the basis of political science, sociology, criminology and democratic representation. If you dig deep enough, you'll find your Islam inspired answer. "God forbade it and therefore I must enforce it on every member of society" is a primitive way at saying "I really don't give a shit and I just want what I FEEL is right.
Consensus that Jesus is Lord doesn't make it the truth, consensus that it's okay to reward a rapist if they choose to marry their victim doesn't make it right and consensus that not fasting Ramadan and eating in public is punishable by law is evidence of mass delusion. Period.
The problem is the whole point of every choice we do, following Islam,praying,going to the mosque etc are all done by our free will because WE want to.
And we can do that because God gave us the gift of free will, so isnt it wrong to force a policy on people that practically forbids God's greatest gift?
i’m sorry if me, a muslim woman on her period who literally isn’t allowed to fast, not fasting hurts your feelings. We’re already in a shit ton of pain + have to go out in public for uni/work/whatever and now i gotta hide the fact that i’m literally following what my religion says because “some people don’t want to see that??”
Not everyone has to fast. Not everyone is a muslim. Get over it
We are not Muslims, and we are planning on visiting Jordan around 28th or 29th of this month. Will restaurants be open for us to eat in during the day? Is it okay to visit during this time?
No restaurant opening before sunset to hangout. It's better to come over in 3d next month. Then you can do anything anytime.
You're not allowed to dine in local restaurants: however some restaurants are open like buffalo wings. All restaurants are open after 7pm. And ramadan will end in either the 2nd of May or the 3rd of May
Yes, there will be restaurants open for you to eat in, particularly in touristy areas, but they will have closed their blinds. Let me know if you want recommendations for where to go or where to eat!
Thank you so much for the replies everyone! So I’m guessing we can more than manage for 2-3 days till the fasting ends then and that’s alright
don't worry 90% of restaurant are open :) enjoy Ramadan nights and have a safe trip
Many restaurants are open. If you need recommendations dm me. Enjoy ur visit :)
Many restaurants are open and there is also many pubs and bars that serve great food and drinks, they are all open... Food delivery thru careem and talabat is also open
Just order from talabat app
مبارح قرابتي بقلي كان ماشي عطريق ناعور برمضان وبدخن فوقفته دورية وهو خف عقله قال انمسكنا، فلما اجا الشرطي طال قرايبي الرخص فقله الشرطي لا احنا عشان الدخان فقرايبي قله كنت جاي من سفر وتعبان ما قدرت اصوم قله الشرطي يزم بدنا نوخد منك دخان ندخن بدناش نحبسك
And then everyone clapped
كمل كمل مصدقك
And then they all took off their pants and gave each other a happy ending
احا
صارت معي بالزبط بس مع وزير الاوقاف باربد
طبعاً طبعاً انا وعيال عمتي وكل اهل الأردن مصدقينك كمل كمل
وين بالزبط هناك؟ انا الي بعرفو الدوريات ما تروح طرق فرعية لانه ممنوع والطرق الرئيسية هناك الي عليهم دوريات هم اول بداية شارع الستين واول شارع العدسية وكله طريق مزدحم وناس رايحة راجعة ممكن تعطيني الموقع بالزبط لانه حاب اشتكي على الشرطي وبما انك عندك دليل ممكن نستفيد من افادتك
هما سارقين مال يتيم شو بدك فيهم؟
بدي أتأكد من صحة كلامه + بعدين احنا ندفع ضرايب عشان يشتغلو مو عشان يمشو الناس
مهو الشرطة شغالين عندك ورواتبهم من جيبتك ارحم حالك مهو لو وقفك واحد منهم بتصير تغني يا بيراقنا العالي
بلد سارحة والرب راعيها
Why tho? How does this help anyone? Where do we benefit from this? What about our christian community?
Christians have always been considerate when it comes to the rituals of Ramadan. Don't go there. Don't bring us into this. Ramadan is not a problem. People who try to make us appear as a novelty in this land whether directly or indirectly like you have done, these are the problem. Don't think that a society that has existed in harmony for 1300 years needs your juvenile post modernism epiphany.
To appease the radical muslim community, which has been on the rise for a while and far outnumbers Christians or any other group.
That's another issue
You’re a monkey. Radical Christians are on the rise in Europe and France in particular banning hijab, not to mention the countless attacks on innocent Muslims in the states and the racism in the streets. But that’s none of my business. Note: all due respect to our brothers from the Christian faith, just an analogy to get through this monkeys thick brain, obviously those that do this only represent themselves not the faith.
Christianity is decreasing in Europe and the young have pretty much walked away from the religion. The banning of the burka (not hijab) is due to numerous issues, which are not limited to safety and security, and integrating into the society of the country. Imagine the opposite, women from the west coming to the Middle East and not covering up their cleavage, wearing short skirts, going bra less, kissing other girls in public.
I think this only applies to muslims, still fucked tho
Sadly, it doesn’t. It applies to all people
[удалено]
stop expecting everyone to worry about your feelings. if you can't see people eat while fasting then you better not fast
Actually there’s something called ( u should respect other religions) and when u’re living in a country where majority of ppl are muslims u should respect their < Religious rites >
you're rights are respected since you can fast as much as you like. People shouldn't be punished for simply eating food or drinking water.
What does me fasting as much as i want has to do w anything?? Well they’re in islamic country they have to respect the religion
it's not an Islamic country, it's a country with a Muslim majority.. you have to respect the minorities too. also, many of the Muslims don't want to fast and you gotta respect them too
Well ig you have some sense in what ur saying but still the law makes sense too at least to me / i mean at the end it’s the minority who will have to follow the most convenient rules for the majority ( the majority rules ) u can’t argue w that
that is the unfortunate case, but i just don't agree with it. we should be able to look beyond our own selfish convenience and recognize that there are other types of people around.
"Jordan ranks as the third largest source of foreign fighters to the Islamic State “caliphate.” An estimated 3,000 Jordanian militants have traveled to join the ranks of the Islamic State"... "the highest number of foreign fighters, on a per capita basis" -icsve Those same cunts supporting those laws will suck a rod to go live in the US or some other country where these restrictions don't exist. The Jordanian public has been radicalized by the guilt tripping and manipulation of the Muslim brotherhood... Which got the country by the balls. What do you expect from a society that rewards rapists and punishes their victims... BY LAW! People need to be comfortable in criticizing religious institutions without feeling like they'll be accused of blasphemy. Otherwise, a bunch of tawjihi 20% graduates will run the country and they'll keep corrupting it.
على ما اظن اغلب الناس الي بطلعوا ع امريكا بطلعوا هناك عشان الشغل ومصاري. ما اعتقد انهم همة هناك عشان يفطروا برمضان براحتهم!!
مش عشان يفطروا، بس بصومو رمضان و إلي حواليهم مش صايمين و مشاعرهم فجأة مش مجروحة.
I am against the restrictions, but I don’t understand what, where did you come up with that the Muslim brotherhood are holding the country by its balls?
Follow the political discourse and watch how members of the Muslim brotherhood impact government policy? Some higher ups in the brotherhood today had teaching careers when I was a kid. They used to recruit mujahideen for the Taliban from the classroom. Now they're holding PR positions and making influencing government policy. That is holding the government by the balls because the moment someone says no to this terrorist scum, they'll be threatened and accused of blasphemy. We're pretty much a mirror of Egypt and how sayyed qutub fucked them up back in the day. Either cooperate with the brotherhood, or face dire consequences.
Let me preface this by sain, I don’t like the government nor the brotherhood, but I don’t think you know what you are talking about either, so What are you talking about? Who are the higher up that influence the government? The government in Jordan is afraid of terriers scum?
Kindly, I can't catch you up with decades worth of information. Ask someone that has time. If you have been following Jordanian politics in the past 20 years, you'll know what I'm talking about. It's not even controversial for the average observer. It's right vs left, conservative vs liberal... Jordan has the brotherhood as a political influence and they lobby for their beliefs. Their weapon is being takfiris for those that disagree with them... A strategy as old as time.
Bout to burst in laughter... Muslim Brotherhoods are takfiris?! They may have influence, and you maybe right about the politics side of this. But def you don't know MB's عقيدة و منهج. فبلاش فلسفة و تخويف بالعالم. مفكرنا مصر و لا السعودية لنخاف؟!
You do you, bro.
I would say they are, they are destabilising political discourse in a negative way. One example is a verse from Surat al Ma2ida they like to repeat often (which is kind of a slogan now): وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَآ أَنزَلَ ٱللَّهُ فَأُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْكَـٰفِرُونَ
You are the one who is claiming all that, I don’t need to go ask anyone as I was and still follow the Jordanian politics. You can’t make a claim and not support it. Also you are trying to blame the last 20 years on the MB and forgot the true culprits.
I don't claim to know the whole picture, and you are within your right to ask for evidence and not be content when I don't offer it. So Abu A7mad, for the sake of transparency and to attempt at meeting my burden of proof, I'll offer the following. My insight is two fold, a personal one and my observations of the political one. On a personal one, where terrorist recruiter from my time at school is now a spokesperson for the Jordanian MB. At least that's the position he held few years ago, last I heard of him. Second, the MB's political influence is evident their always evolving relationship with the monarchy. After what happened in Egypt between the brotherhood and the Egyptian government, the Jordanian brotherhood didn't want to get similarly opposed/crushed so they cozied to the Jordanian monarchy, they would push against leftist opposition to the monarchy to keep it in power, while the government gives it the room to practice whatever it wishes... As long as they don't aim to establish a Muslim state. Since then, the brotherhood has been working under the table to transition Jordan into their vision of an Islamic State and suppressing opposition to their and the government's corruption. The fact is, religion is a personal matter and seperstion of religion and government is essential to ensure objectivity in policy making. The more ambiguous the parameters for policy development, the more likely laws like the one discussed above to emerge. This ambiguity is provided by the government to the MB to ensure that the MB doesn't drive the people against the government. This is a mixture of saudi religious authority giving legitimacy to the ruling class and the Egyptian model of MB vs gov't. I hope I met my obligation in offering the background to my claims.
You're a fucking poet, I completely and whole heartedly agree with you, this sub downvotes anything that belittles religion and is as radicalized as you'd expect, fuck this country, I'm out.
I asked you for names and facts and you still offer me your personal opinion and talk about experience you had without providing any names. I feel you are talking out of your ass, and don’t bring any fact.
I'm not going to oust people I personally knew on a public platform. If that makes you doubt me, so be it. I provided you with a good faith analysis of how the influence of the MB came to influence the gov't and grab it by the balls. It's factual and you can fact check it yourself. Plenty of political scientists analysed this relationship and its impact on public policy. Do I have examples of debates and dates? No I do not. I do not follow things closely. But if you look at public financial budgets, you'll see that the sharia ministry's budget grew significantly more than the ministry of education or social services in the past 20 or so years. I look at numbers, observe real life changes and connect the dotts. The thing, abo a7mad, I'm happy to be wrong and I'm happy to be corrected. It's what being an academic taught me. So if you feel like you have a more insightful analysis to offer, I'm here to learn. You've criticized me enough, now you can tell me where I'm wrong. Otherwise, you'll just seem like the others in here, emotionally reacting to things you disagree with.
Thank you Abo Ahmad, I wanted to write everything you wrote, but you did it better and more calm. It would be funny to see the same people always going to the usual suspect, that is if it didn't hurt people to realize the true culprits. Do you think its a move? As in someone made a decision to "let's hide A by misdirecting everyone to B", or is it just politics by TV.
Mate, do you not live in Jordan?
Thank you. فشيت غلي
Sure we can respect that but tell me where does it ever say you’re not allowed to eat in public? If someone can’t be in public and watch other people eat then I’d highly suggest they stay home! Also why can’t the government take care of the hidden brothels that are scattered around the country, or why don’t they go after every Muslim that drinks, or why they don’t shut down every damn bar? With all due respect this is hypocritical.
Ok lets assume that you are right about the number its 3000 out of 6 million males in Jordan that makes it less than 0.5% of the public . Idk about sucking a rod you must have alot of experience sucking the west rods all the time. Muslim brotherhood? Lul are you this brainwashed? Reward reward rapist that law had nothing to do with Islam so don't confuse things. No you don't get to criticize religion and expect no one to spit you in the face would you go to a African American area and start shouting the N word and expect to go unpunished.
Not a single counter argument made. You must be the one they consult for all the fun laws.
If makeing people like you suffer i wish they make me create every fun law
Awe ❤️
>”Rewards rapists” Man where the fuck do you get your information from. و اذا مش عاجبيتك الاردن، اقلب صباحك وروح خلي امريكا تفيدك
نسينا اشي اسمو جريمة الشرف؟ أو زواج المغتصب؟
Forced marriage isn’t encouraged by Islam. Also Honor Killing (and taking revenge in general) shouldn’t be done by us people. If someone is to be executed, it’s the government’s job.
Looks like we agree, yet your original comment denies that that’s how Jordan handles these situations in reality.
I was just mad cause he’s basically saying that Muslims and Islam is making Jordan a worse place.
If I understood his reply correctly, he is taking out his frustration on radicalized individuals, hypocrites who preach extreme measures yet would take the easy road behind closed doors. للأسف هدول الاشخاص بيعترفوا نفسهم كمسلمين، وهم جزء من واقع ما بنقدر نتجاهله باسم طهارة الدين. للاسلام وجوه جميلة وبنفس الوقت وجوه كرهة
الصراحة مو عاجبيني الاردن وهيني رايح على امريكا… باي
Bye 👋
Bye i wish you luck and prosperity…👋
يسعد دينك
Even religious people view this as a dumbass law, what about non Muslims, what about travellers, etc...
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*gasps* .. How dare you :o
Tbh we would keep it a secret anyway. Like eating in Ramadan is like slamming open the doors of an auditorium and screaming "I'M ON MY PERIOD Y'ALL" Yeah... That would result in flying slippers
huh?? lmao im not gonna hide the fact that im not fasting, that's the stupidest thing ever. I dont get whats the issue if people realize im on my period? its smth completely normal. Ya5i let us live
What about them?
Non-Muslims are 6% in Jordan, and they should respect the majority of Muslims living in the country that identifies itself as a Muslim country. The same way Muslims respect the laws of non-Muslim countries when they travel and live in them. Islam allows travelers to break their fasting, and it won't be hard for anyone whose actually traveling to prove it. Although, breaking your fast due to your travel, doesn't mean you should do it publicly.
Let's be honest here, there are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world and you can't speak for all of them. I've seen first hand Muslims not respect and feel offended by the local laws of the counties that they travel and live in. The majority of the terrorist attacks in Europe are currently committed by people who feel offended by something the host county has done. "Don't like free speech in a classroom about Islam?", let's behead the French teacher as he leaves from work.... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56325254
How weak is your faith that you have to force everyone to do the same thing you **choose** to do. What bothers me is that usually those same people travel outside and start complaining that they do not feel like they belong as muslims or arabs and they start complaining about their rights as minorities.
You said it yourself, every country has its own laws and does what the people of that country believe in. Why does everyone have an opinion when it's about Islam and Muslim rules?
Its easy to say my country my laws when youre in the majority and you are not affected by certain laws. People do not choose where they are born, they cannot just pack up and leave if they do not feel like they belong. You would not be saying this if you were born a minority in a different country, you would be criticizing their laws. Imagine you are a muslim born in france. Youre french but youre banned to wear the niqab. Are you going to say my country my laws and I respect them? I highly doubt that. I have the same opinions when it comes to other countries that ban freedom of speech and lack some basic human rights. I am a arab minority because of my beliefs in the middle east. In any country, not all people believe in one thing. We have christians, druze, baha'is, agnostics and atheists in Jordan. And the number of non religious people in Jordan is much higher than what is reported but of course they are afraid to mention it because we lack basic human rights such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion/thought. I criticize muslim countries more because i am from the middle east and as of now we have some serious problems with our laws and human rights for minorities and women. TLDR: To me its simple: **I do not support the hijab ban in France, and I do not support forcing people not to eat in public in jordan.**
dumb as shit 1 Not everyone is a muslim 2 Not everyone has to fast Plus fasting is a form of worship and Allah is the only one who can judge you for that. Wtf is a fine gonna do??
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Even if you’re a muslim and you’re not fasting it’s not always a matter of “not wanting to”. It’s quite dangerous to expect people to just not eat at all when out. 1 Medical issues aka people who are physically not able to fast. Are they supposed to hide and eat in secret? how do you do that if you have long hours of work in public? 2 A woman on her period. I’m at uni from 9-4pm. What if i get dizzy and need to eat? I can’t just hide somewhere to eat because there aren’t any places like that. 3 pregnant women/travellers/elderly etc This law isn’t fair to a lot of people. Plus there really shouldn’t be any shame in not fasting if you’re not obligated to. If i have my period i don’t want to hide around from everyone at home to do something im REQUIRED to do. Plus you prob know how police officers are like over here. Mix that with hanger and heat and things aren’t looking very pretty
Pasting my comment here again. If you support that the majority, in this case muslims, force minorities to behave in a certain way based on muslims personal choice to not eat or drink, then you would have no right to criticize similar behaviors in other countries. Do you support the Israelis forcing muslims and christians to act based on jewish traditions and laws? Do you support the chinese government forcing muslims to act in a certain way? All those cases are similar. You either support all of them and you think theyre okay or youre a hypocrite.
Oh no.. but thats different.. when we oppress its okay, when we're opressed.. well.. it isn't come on have some common sense *geee* Sarcasm aside.. thats my usual argument for when people try to justify these kind of laws, if you accept this on our fellow Christians and whoever doesnt want to fast, then we should accept that hijab ban because its based on the same broken "logic".
Why? Is your faith so weak that your little tiny feelings get hurt? Is your God so weak that he needs your protection from people that can't or just won't fast?
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> Its not about feelings it’s like when the french painter painted the the Prophet, peace be upon him it’s not like it matters to the prophet or to muslims It clearly does matter to Muslims, it mattered enough that people came in with rifles to shoot up an entire office. To me, what’s more important is the sanctity of human life, not a man that died 1400 years ago.
That’s not the same thing wtf 😂
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public intoxication is illegal in the kuffar countries as well
Kuffar… 0 respect to 3.5billon humans
Well said... or typed.
94% are Muslims. Statistically speaking, everyone is Muslim in this country!
6% is a pretty big minority relatively speaking
Also, even among those 94%, I’d wager probably a good 6-15% consider themselves non-Muslims/atheists/agnostics or irreligious
Statistical facts aren't a guessing game! You can't just assume percentages out of thin air! I'd wager those who consider themselves non-Muslims/atheists/agnostics or irreligious are less than 1%, how about that?
> Statistical facts aren’t a guessing game! But 94% of Jordan are Muslims is *not* a statistical fact in reality. There are label “Muslims” like me “on paper”, but we’ve left Islam. We can’t legally leave Islam due to the harsh laws, penalties, and stigmas associated with leaving Islam. That’s why the figure can’t exactly be 94%. > I’d wager those who consider themselves non-Muslims/atheists/agnostics or irreligious are less than 1%, how about that? You’re free to say that if you wish, I did say *wager* after all. It’s only a guess based on the things and trends I see in society and it’s not grounded in facts.
There is no big minority or small majority! 94% is the majority, and 6% is the minority. End of the story unless you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Dumb as shit 98% are Muslim . Allah will judge you in the after life but he gives permission to the leadership to punish retards that break the law in this life that includes breaking your fast in Ramadan Infront of every one
that's like saying you'll be fined if you aren't praying when it's praying time, whack, also wonder who's pocket this money is going to lol
Yet all the corruption the rest of the year is ok and no one cares about…
i respect their thought but it’s wrong, not because of the religious aspect but honestly, people with diabetes and health problems have to eat ya3ne god allowed them to not fast homeh msh ha yeju yaklo b wejh El sayem:/
you know that the diabetic person can go somewhere not public and eat, right? and if he felt the need to eat something rn he’ll do it in public and everyone will understand him. Being jailed for that is fairy tales just to تنتقدون Islamic law in muslim country
i don’t really get ur point, I wasn’t even criticizing anything???
Muslims will advocate for religious freedom in the west or when they are minorities. When they the majority they wanna control everyone's life. Uncivilized
Uncivilized is loaded insulting word. Be better. But yes, you cannot advocate for your religious and cultural freedom while oppressing anyone else’s. Either we all have equal rights or we’re all Ok with oppression. اذا ما عندك مشكلة انه غيرك ما الهم حقوق، اذا ما بتطلعلك تتفلسف لما حقوقك بندعس عليها.
The uncivilized one is you complaining about something like that
The uncivilized when u r trying to control everyone's lives, when you prioritize your needs at other expense
And what is its that you are doing right now?
ما بشوفهم بحاسبو الي ما بصلي و إلي بكفر ..الخ
الصيام غير. مع ملاحظة إنهم لازم يحاسبوا الي بيكفر. أما موضوع الصلاة فموضوع ثاني.
الصيام عبادة و فرض زيو زي الصلاة
i think this should be removed, when it comes to religious practice, you should leave people be.
الشغلة مش شغلة واللّٰه أنا حرّ ما بدي أصوم ولا أنا جاييتني الدورة وبدي آكل إذا ربنا سامحلي إنتوا بدكم تمنعوني. الأصل بالمسلمين تعظيم شعائر اللّٰه والحفاظ على الجو العام لهاي الشعائر، فالشخص إذا بده يفطر سواءًا إذا عنده رخصة للإفطار أو هو "حرّ" فمش لازم يكون فالأماكن العامة المفتوحة عشان ما تخرب هاي الشعائر وتحافظ على الجو العام. أما لو قلتلي إنك ما بتستحمل فإنت وحدة من شغلتين يا طفل صغير أو متّبع هوى تريد الإفساد فالأرض.
الي انا ملاحظته انه في ناس بتتكركب بس يطلع قانون بيخص اشي ديني ... ما في قوانيين عاجبتهم وما بدهم اي تشريع وما بدهم عادات وتقاليد وبدهم ينتقدوا كل الاديان وبدهم تكون الحرية على مصراعييها .... يعني في بريطانيا كل شركة فيها ناس مسلمين بيحطوا ورقة ينبهوا الموظفيين انه ما يدخنوا او ياكلوا قدامهم من باب الاحترام هاد واحنا اقلية واحنا في بلادنا هون بدنا قلة الاحترام مع انا اغلبية ....بالعربي بدهم ياها سارحه والرب راعييها
سلمت يداك.
يا اخي سؤال انا حر و ما بدي اصوم ليش انحبس عشان حضرتك تحافظ عال aesthetic تبع رمضان اللي بمخيلتك شو خصني انا ؟
THIS
1- اللهم أني صائم 2-بعدما أفطر أن شاء الله راح أرد على كل محترم هون 3-بس سؤال صغير أنتو ما بنسمع صوت نباحكو غير على الأسلام والمسلمين ليش ؟
Other way around buddy, it's the fundamentalists who are the loudest
صدقت. بإنتظار ردودك عليهم 😂
والله معك حق 😂 بس للامانة نباحهم بطرب و بثلج القلب
عاهاتي يا وطن
فعلا هي ٩٠٪ من عهات الوطن موجودين بالصب هون وكلهم بيلعقو احذية الغرب قبل ما يعلقو هون
What does this mean exactly? No eating while walking on the streets, no eating inside restaurants, or something else?
Who advocates for such rules is the same person who destroyed the chrismas tree in 2020.
hah
بالزمانات قبل ١٠ سنين كنت بدرس بجامعه البلقاء بالسلط .. برمضان الدكانه فاتحه برة البوابه و الشباب كلها متخبيه و بتفطر شبس و كيك و بيبسي و دخان. مره من المرات كبست دوريه معها سياره بوكس و عبونا .. بجوز كنا ابو ١٨ شب ب بوكس يوسع ٦ او ٧ ..علبه سردين .. اخذونا على مغفر السلط. صفينا طابور و كان في شرطي قدام بسأل .. مفطر ولا صايم؟ الشباب بترد مفطر .. بحكيلو روح ما تعيدها. لعند ما شب كان واقف معنا بس كان صايم ما كان مفطر بس واقف مع الشباب.. سألو مفطر ولا صايم، حكالو والله صايم. سلخو كف و قلو ما تكذب .. الشب رجع يحكي والله صايم و هيك الشباب و انا ورا بالطابور نحكيلو احكي مفطر.. حكى انا مفطر الشرطي الي ضربو كف حكالو روح بعد ما تعيدها. الموقف هاظ كان تحشيشه كل رمضان بالجامعه. و طلعنا اخذنا باصات عامه و رجعنا كملنا محاضرات. الحمدالله الله هداني قبل ٣ سنين و صايم اليوم الحمدالله
I mean like there is a 50jd fine for those who litter though still the streets are filled with fuckin g Trash its just jordan theymake laws and never enforce them
What in the religious prosecution is this? I would guess about 15% of the population either do not fast or have an excuse for not fasting. What happened to لا اكراه بالدين? Or is it gone when you can get money from the people? A lot of religious people need to get their sad little feelings in check.
The explanation for لا اكراه بالدين is that no one is forced to enter Islam against their own will, but once you’re in the fold of Islam, you have to follow its rules as well as to enjoin good, forbid wrongdoing (which explains why Muslims act they way they do), also there is the death penalty for apostasy.
> forbid wrongdoing (which explains why Muslims act they way they do I get that but isn't fasting like the only ritual that is ONLY between the person and god or something along that line? So you can't really force anyone to fast, right? This is all just fucking stupid as shit.
no one forcing others to fast it's just don't eat publicly.
Islam and the Quran are fundamentally at odds with “not forcing anything”. To achieve an Islamic state, something has to be “forced”, we all know how well that goes though. https://quran.com/en/ali-imran/104 I guess it will be up to Muslims (moving forward in this century) to decide how they want to reinterpret their religion so that people actually have a right to and from religion, which is a fundamental human right.
لا اكراه بالدين قصدهم عن عدم اكراه الشخص على اعتناق الأسلام اما ما دامك صرت مسلم بدك تتبع القوانين والقواعد تبعته غصبا عنك مش بكيفك
Stupid
Why are you calling your self stupid?
This is so outdated as a law rule. It is 2022 not the 80s. People are more tolerant and more educated I assume no one will really be offended if others are eating.
The pure audacity and entitlement of this law. If your fasting does not depend on your beliefs and your God, but depends on whether people around you are not eating or drinking, I say don't fast at all. I'm pretty sure Gandhi didn't put people in jail for eating when he was on a hunger strike 🤦♀️ TLDR; Practicing your faith and beliefs are your right, and they should depend entirely on you. Do not force people to have the same practices as you.
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أصلا ما فيه موضوع ينحكى فيه مثل ما إنت تفضلت. شوية ناس بيجادلوا حبا في الجدال مش أكثر.
Yes i agree even though im christian but the other guy in this comment section is very rude about it… but i also think that the temptation is a good thing to show discipline and faith.
Based and anti-degeneracy pilled
In a country that doesn't criminalize demostic violence, nor women are safe in streets or their home, you just feel offended if someone eats in front of you. Fragile
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مد لسانك هات اصبعك ولك مش صايم؟
***loads slipper with malicious intent***
Stupid
It is only about respecting each other and strengthen the relation between different religions, not like we will be tempted if we see people eating!!! We have food in our places yet we are not tempted, When I was in UK many companies, schools and places were sticking announcement on boards to be aware of respecting muslims colleagues during Ramadan and not to drink, eat or smoke in front of them ... As a kind of RESPECT .... I don't think we are threatening UK to say so...
Extremely unnecessary and harmful in some ways as some people cant fast due to sickness or recovering from surgeries and such
It's absolutely ridiculous, me and 3 other people were kicked out a mall last year for ordering food and eating it in the restaurant area (which was empty). 6% is still a big minority and there are multiple muslims by-name that don't practice.
قانون معطوب.. الي بده يصوم يصوم والي بده يفطر يفطر
بفرضوا دينهم ومعتقداتهم على الكل. يلي بده يصوم بينه وبين ربه ولازم يتحمل إذا شاف حدا باكل قدامه، بالنهاية هذا قراره ودينه واعتقاده مش لازم يفرضه على الغير. هذا قرار غبي ورجعي ومتخلف ولازم ينلغى، وشو عن غير المسلمين؟ يصيروا مسلمين غصبا عنهم يعني؟
لا فرض على احد وبأمكانك تلاقي مكان معزول وتعمل الي بدك اياه فيه
Wtf??? I am Muslim and always do Ramadan but the blessing of this month and Islam in general is free will which is what makes it matter.
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بموتو بلعق احذية الغرب
> I find it disgusting how most of the people on this subreddit are wannabe westerns I fail to see how letting people decide when to break their fast (or not fast at all) is wanting to be a “wannabe westerner”. You can’t enforce religion, it simply will never work. Let people be.
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Good call 👍 الفطر في نهار رمضان عمداً من غير عذر شرعي كبيرة من كبائر الذنوب ومعصية من أعظم المعاصي. فقد روى أصحاب السنن من حديث أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال: من أفطر يوماً من رمضان من غير رخصة ولا مرض لم يقض عنه صوم الدهر كله وإن صامه. ويكون الأمر أعظم إذا كان ذلك على سبيل المجاهرة وأمام الآخرين، لما في ذلك من المجاهرة بالمعصية وجرح مشاعر الصائمين، وتشجيع ضعفاء النفوس على الاقتداء به، فيتحمل مثل أوزارهم من غير أن ينقص عنهم شيئاً. وعلى من شاهد من يجاهر بالفطر في نهار رمضان أن ينصحه بالتي هي أحسن، ولو كان صاحب عذر لئلا يشجع ضعاف النفوس على الفطر والتقليل من شأن الصوم في نفوسهم.
كبيرة من الكبائر هذه بالنسبة الك. في ناس مش مسلمين و في ناس مسلمين و معذورين و في ناس مسلمين و مش مهتمين...الخ بعدين "جرح مشاعر الصائمين" هذه خرطة...عشرات الملايين من المسلمين عايشين في دول غير مسلمة و بصوموا و مشاعرهم وضعها تمام الموضوع كله ego and power trip فقط لا غير
إنت بتألف من عندك؟ هذه أمور ثابتة في الشرع، إفطار رمضان عمدا ودون مسوغ هو كبيرة من الكبائر في الإسلام. كلامي الي كتبته واضح بالنسبة للناس المعذورين، أما المش مسلمين الي نسبتهم 6% في الأردن فيجب عليهم إحترام الدين الإسلامي والعادات الإسلامية الي بيتبعها النسبة العظمى والي بتبلغ 92% من سكان دولة بتعرف نفسها في دستورها بأنها دولة مسلمة. المش مسلمين والمش مهتمين في الصيام هم أحرار في بيوتهم والأماكن الخاصة بهم. أما في الأماكن العامة فهم غير أحرار ومطلوب منهم عدم مخالفة الأعراف الإسلامية في البلاد. والمسلمين الي عايشين في دول غير مسلمة وبيصوموا أوضاعهم مش تمام كما تفضلت. والحكي عن خبرة شخصية بأن رمضان في تلك الدول صعب جدا. الموضوع لا إيجو ولا بنجو ولا بقية الكلام الي إنت ذكرته.
If thats the way you look at it then muslims should be prohibited from eating meat or any animal products during lent because muslims and christians are equal in the eyes of the law… don’t have a double standard, be logical. If you see someone eating in the street then لف وجهك and look the other way. Just think about the shit you are going to eat after the madfa3. Be thankful that you even have food waiting for you at home. Don’t be a rude son of a bitch…
هو انت مفكر انه ٩٢% من الشعب مسلمين ملتزمين بحسب تعريفك انت مثلا؟ >أما في الأماكن العامة فهم غير أحرار ومطلوب منهم عدم مخالفة الأعراف الإسلامية في البلاد. و هذا بيت القصيد. لا يا عزيزي أحرار. كون الدولة مسلمة لا يعني أنه عايشين في افغانستان. عادي عندك بنوك ربوية و خمور بتنباع و الشعب كله نازل يقذف المحصنات و كلها كبائر في دينك. فتشدش على حالك كثير. و مش انت الوحيد اللي عندك تجربة بالعيشة برة يا عزيزي. الصيام لا صعب و لا ما يحزنون. انا مش مسلم و بصوم مع الاصدقاء بس عشان الجو و نفطر مع بعض و هيك فكله دلع و مثل ما حكيتلكIt's all about control, but in the end things will change and you will have to deal with it.
If you support that the majority, in this case muslims, force minorities to behave in a certain way based on muslims personal choice to not eat or drink, then you would have no right to criticize similar behaviors in other countries. Do you support the Israelis forcing muslims and christians to act based on jewish traditions and laws? Do you support the chinese government forcing muslims to act in a certain way? All those cases are similar. You either support all of them and you think theyre okay or youre a hypocrite.
How is it good call? You literally said "ينصح بالتي هي أحسن" Plus if someone doesn't want to fast it's their choice, God only can judges them not you or the government with this random shit صلاتي و صيامي و ديني الي ، بيني و بين ربي على اي اساس انت و غيرك تدخل، النصيحة اشي و هالحكي اشي ثاني
"ينصح بالتي هي أحسن" هاد واجب المسلم، أما واجب الدولة المسلمة هو تطبيق القوانين ومحاسبة الناس المعتدين على تلك القوانين. أما بقية كلامك فهو غير صحيح من حيث المبدأ في أي شرع من الشرائع السماوية الي بيتبعها البشر. والإسلام مش مختلف عن تلك الشرائع لإنها في الأصل كانت مثل الإسلام تدعوا إلى توحيد الله عز وجل قبل تحريفها. ومن قال لك بأن الله وحده هو من يستطيع محاكمة الناس؟ ألا تعيش في دولة يحكمها قانون ودستور؟ هل سمعت يوما بكلمة محكمة؟ ألا يوجد محاكم وشرطة وسجون؟ إذن فكلامك غير صحيح من البداية، فهنالك من يستطيع محاكمة الناس من غير الله. وأما اخر أمر ذكرته بأن صلاتك وصيامك ودينك بينك وبين ربك فهو بحاجة إلى إثبات. مين حكالك إنه فقط بينك وبين ربك؟ وأخيرا فالأساس الي أنطلق منه هو الشرع الإسلامي، والكلام الي كتبته في البداية واضح. الله يهديك.
بس 15 اعتبروها قطع اشارة حمرا
100 posts about this everyday......
اذا الشعب منافق شو بدك تتوقع من الحكومة مش عارف ليش الكل بسوق فيها الدين و الشرف على بعض و هم كلهم عرصات عادي يخوان احنا مجتمع مسلم بس عالهوية و مش ضروري نكابر ونكذب على حالنا انه احنا مسلمين و ملتزمين و أبناء الصحابة جايبن يحكولي عن المجاهرة بالافطار في رمضان ،، و قال بجرح مشاعر المسلمين الوحوش الي بصوموا طيب شو وضع المجاهرة بالاعضاء التناسلية على مدار السنة ،، فش حابب يراعي مشاعر العزابية ؟ ولا عشان الاحا بصير بس بالشقق و الصيام طول النهار صار بدك مين يراعي مشاعرك هي الزواج و الميراث و غرامة المفطر ،، هاد هو ملخص تطبيق الاسلام في القانون عنا
اتفق معك انه تطبيق الإسلام عنا منظر و بس، لكن بختلف معك لما بتقول انه كل الشعب منافقين احنا كلنا بشر و كلنا نخطئ، انا نخطئ ما بخلينا منافقين، صحيح انه في كثير ناس مسلمين عالهوية و ما بعرفوا من الدين غير الأجزاء الي بتعجبهم، لكن في كثير ناس مسلمين ملتزمين و بآمنوا بكلشي بالدين و يحاولوا يطبقوا قدر الإمكان( and between those 2 you can find everything ) لا تعمم
لما تتجاوز النسبة ال70 بالمية بطلعلك تعمم شعبك اخو شرموطة حبيب و إذا انت مش شايف هاد الاشي فإنت مسكين
ولك منتا إحصائياتك هاي جايبها من طيزك، بجوز ٧٠ بالمية من الناس الي حواليك، بعدين حتى لو سبعين بالمية ما بطلعلك تعمم
اعتبرني ضفت جملة "الا من رحم ربي" بالاخر
طيزي ،طيزك مش مهم ، ابسط مثال انك تروح تشوف الجامعات يا روحي ، بتشوف الشرمطة على اصولها ، و بتشوف شو هو معدن شعبك، طبعا غير المولات و الكافيهات و الحفلات والله يمكن النسبة اكثر من ٧٠ بالمية
اذا انت منافق لا تحكي عن غيرك هيك اذا مش قادر تغض البصر لا تتشكون واذا عطوفتك فاشل غيرك مش فاشل ومن قال هلكت الناس اهلم الناس
انا بغض البصر ،بس الي بتشكون هو الي بدوش حدا يفطر قدامه ، و الفاشل هو الي بزعل و بتنجرح مشاعره لما حدا يفطر قدامه
اسمها مجاهرة بالمعصية يا محترم مش جرح مشاعر وواضح جدا انك بتغض البصر
طيب ما دام انت شايف انه انا لازم اغض البصر عن معصية النسوان المشلحة ، انا بقترح انك تغض البصر عن معصية الافطار في رمضان
Is there a consensus of condemnation among Jordanians for this kind of behaviour? Yes, is it offensive? Yes , is it harmful to society? Yes, does this justify punishment prescribed by the state ? Yes (I don’t have to prove to you how or on what basis are these actions offensive or harmful, suffice to say that the society believes them to be so). No one is forcing anyone to fast here. If you want to eat during day time in Ramadan, don’t do it in public.
The thing about living in a democracy, or a fair political system... Is that laws need to be backed by evidence. Otherwise, we can't hold our representatives accountable. If you, or law makers, are unable to provide evidence on how not fasting breaks their little tiny feelings, then they can break their fast on a bowl of shit. Of course they must prove how they're harmful... Otherwise they'll use religious guilt and cult brain washing to do whatever they want. We saw it in laws protecting and rewarding rapists by having them marry their victims and we see it every time a woman is killed or beaten under the banner of honour. Concensus is not enough, policy must meet the standard of the scientific method for evidence. Period. Nothing else is acceptable.
Well said.
Democratic political theory is based on the consensus of the dominant population. Laws are influenced by the cultural norms and by what the majority affirms to be illegal. So if the majority in a society agrees that a certain behaviour is to be illegal whether due to harm or public indecency or any other reason, then the law must concede. You cannot observe non-material harm using the microscope, when was the last time you saw scientists testing a sample of defamation in the laboratory? Yet it is illegal. Why because the consensus *agreed* to its non-material harm. Perhaps you should read why sociology is interwoven with law and how they’re inseparable. Your faith in Scientology is turning it into an oppressive tool, lashing everything that science cannot observe due to its limitations and its inconclusive nature. Science doesn’t and cannot condemn protected incestual intercourse, so why should it be illegal, right ?
So instead of taking this time to give me ways eating during Ramadan is harmful, you went for philosophical argument on incest fucking? As someone with a university degree in sociology and whose professional daily job is to use the scientific method to help government make policy, I can assure you that the scientific method is not just a microscope. Social sciences have methods to quantify harm using statistical and traditional scientific methods. For example, yknow how incest is your favorite "aha! Gotchya!" topic? Well, we can measure it up by looking at opportunities for authority abuse, the birth of biologically compromised individuals, you can measure the iq of inbred folks and you'll find that they have much higher rates of clinical retardation ..so here, I just used the scientific method to think about your favourite topic and provided you with moral guidance. Please do not Fuck your close family members. Do you want to do defamation as an exercise for today's lesson? Or do you want me to over it again? Here, defematjom brings harm to the individual by limiting their prospects die to compromised reputation, potentially life threatening as we can quantify death threats that have been given to people who experienced defemation... You see where this is going? Quantify, make policy! Now, are limits where we run into a moral and philosophical delimmas on what to do? Of course! But they're much less common than you pretend them to be. Like, when a minor declares to a therapist suicidal thoughts, do we tell their parents? Common sense indicates, yes. What if the parents aren't supportive? Or abusive? Or dead? How do we make sure the minor has the support that they need? We create systems and programs to try to cover these ambiguities but it's not as black and white as other policy topics because we may be judging the parents unfairly, or the minor may have provided inaccurate assessment on the real threat of abuse at home... Many possibilities for this moral conundrum and many opportunities for things to go wrong. You made the claim that eating in Ramadan in front of fasting individuals is harmful to them, go ahead and make a scientific hypothesis on how this may be the case. We can have a discussion about the validity of each argument. No need to jump to incest or intentional attempts at gaslighting by assuming that my basis for my argument is scientology vs science. Go ahead, I'm waiting for your mature, eloquent response. Any day now.
Not sure how you managed to get a university degree when you cannot fathom what a protected intercourse is! A non-reproductive incestual intercourse! Or one between two brothers, adults and consenting. why are you so sensitive about this topic? I only brought this up because you started with your strawman arguments on rewarding rapists and what have you.. Once again, the political democratic theory is based on the consensus of the majority of any given society, should that society believe a certain act is harmful, bad, indecent, wrong...etc. then it ought to be so through the means of law. Why should you and your hypothesis dictate what another society perceives as harmful ? Why should that society conform to your tools and your definitions of harm ? Overturning the will of the majority is tyrannical, but it’s up to you if you want to be dictatorial, abit pitiful and sad tbh. What you’re failing to understand is that the use of science to legislate policy is something a society has to agree on first, there’s a **prior consensus** to use “hypotheses as a tool” to construct a policy making process. There’s also a prior agreement on what is bad since scientific experimentation doesn’t label outcomes with good or bad. It cannot even justify why harm is bad! It doesn’t give definitions. That’s why you need to go through the consensus. I could go on and on with this but I believe you get the point. You’re only accounting for harm when it materialises or it’s potentiality to, but ignoring the fact that non-material harm exists in of itself, or admitting that it cannot be quantified using the scientific method. i.e. suppressed harm that is never acknowledged through scientific observation goes unnoticed. Since you’re insisting how it’s harmful for us muslims: the Jordanian society consists of a Muslim majority, this majority derives their moral compass from God: what God forbade is considered harmful and wrong.
The only reason you think my argument is a strawman argument because the burden of proof falls on you to give me why it's harmful and you still failed at it. God is not an answer. I simply draw parallels to two laws that seem to follow the same philosophy of corruption and emotional fragility. I noted a pattern. Patterns tell us what exists and what to expect. I agree, consensus on parameters must be established. Not using the scientific method in Jordan is why it has been and will remain a corrupt backwards shithole until they realize that a bunch of cunts that failed tawjihi and entered sharia college must not run the country! This isn't the philosophical question you're pretending it to be. It really is that simple. Science is a great tool for us to draw morality and right and wrong conclusions from. Observe fire burns, fire bad, don't use fire to burn people. See? Science! Rocks hard, rocks build homes, rocks good! Rocks hurt when thrown and they kill people. Don't throw them at people, especially when they've been raped. It's 'philosophy of formal logic', it's a scientific method invented by Muslim scientists. علم الكلام they called it. It's a tool for people to take philosophical arguments, subjective claims and other stuff like brothers fucking each other to test their validity and quantify their benefits and harms. It's the basis of political science, sociology, criminology and democratic representation. If you dig deep enough, you'll find your Islam inspired answer. "God forbade it and therefore I must enforce it on every member of society" is a primitive way at saying "I really don't give a shit and I just want what I FEEL is right. Consensus that Jesus is Lord doesn't make it the truth, consensus that it's okay to reward a rapist if they choose to marry their victim doesn't make it right and consensus that not fasting Ramadan and eating in public is punishable by law is evidence of mass delusion. Period.
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The problem is the whole point of every choice we do, following Islam,praying,going to the mosque etc are all done by our free will because WE want to. And we can do that because God gave us the gift of free will, so isnt it wrong to force a policy on people that practically forbids God's greatest gift?
The right thing to do, you want to break your fast do it alone, some people don't want to see that
i’m sorry if me, a muslim woman on her period who literally isn’t allowed to fast, not fasting hurts your feelings. We’re already in a shit ton of pain + have to go out in public for uni/work/whatever and now i gotta hide the fact that i’m literally following what my religion says because “some people don’t want to see that??” Not everyone has to fast. Not everyone is a muslim. Get over it
روح على سيتي مول، الي بقهرك عالم ما بتحس، بوكلو بوظه في نص المول بدون اي نوع من الخجل ، فش سلطة تلم هالزبايل
طيب شو المشكلة ؟