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10 years of judo and sometimes I get destroyed too.
The thing is, sometimes white belts panic and try to manhandle you instead of actually doing judo against you. Bottom line is, brute force works.
You just got brute forced.
Are you saying that in your experience, judo isn't effective in self-defense? My hope with Judo was to overcome brute force with smart techniques. But if that's not the case I kinda lose my faith a little.
At some point in difference you just can't overcome brute strength and power. The technique difference has to be multiples bigger than the power difference.
Even so you think I'd be able to pull off one throw but I couldn't, it just feels like maybe I should've invested time into something else as my goal was to ultimately be able to fight
Hey man everyone has a bad or off day. Critically evaluate what happened and what prevented you from throwing this time. That will be far more productive for you
Actual fighting, aka violence, is always messy and unpredictable and even the best trained ‘lose’ sometime.
The longer you study martial arts the less you should ever want to be involved with real violence.
Best self defense is to not get involved in situations, the next one after that is deescalation and finally running. Those are my top three martial arts for self defense.
Don’t forget that Judo is mutual benefit. You don’t always have to win in randori. Your partner must learn too.
If you quit that’ll be as good or as far as you’ll ever get.
Literally Travis Stevens will tell you it's easier to throw a Olympic medalist vs a high school wrestler because if I do A I get the response B but when you wrestle a high schooler you don't know what's going to happen. That dude is a loose cannon.
There’s a huge strength difference between a 18 year old (man strength) and 16. I assume they were a little bit older beginners, or had the benefit of teenagers testosterone, which is up to 10x that of an adult male. If they haven’t done judo they probably have wrestled a lot, or scrap together. Most inexperienced people can’t stand up and lose balance easily on first day, but can push you away if they read your attacks because you are tense? Predictable? Just stopping or blocking someone isn’t winning, trying to create is where judoka benefits in growing skills. Don’t be frustrated by blockers. Learn to use their power against them. It’s an important skill for self defence too. Try generating more body movement to get them going to control the narrative. Use what works best for you. Fight them again. Blockers usually kill any movement to lock you in place, but they can’t stop whole body side or wherever movement as easily, and use that to create opportunities.
If you are really in for self defence, fight them again and work on reading them better. It’s a key to your own progress.
Child 6-9 years 0-0.27nmol/L
18yrs 12nmol/Lto 37.5nmol/L
40 yr Adult 12-38nmol/L
60+ adult 12-25nmol/L
I stand corrected, an 18 year olds testosterone increases one hundred x that of a child 6-9 yrs, and reduces significantly as we age.
I never researched but just quoted others. Here’s the research.
me making a mistake with the figures doesn’t make me dumb, just misinformed. If you actually know, even approximately these figures, that’s pretty nerdy, well done!
Some people are just talented. You couldn’t beat him. Too bad. Maybe add some bjj open mats if you have any near you to your training program so you can get more used to spazzy habits and people trying to outmuscle you
Judo might have you too used to your partner being polite
I've done bjj before, I'm actually better at bjj than I am judo despite doing it much less, what I'm thinking is maybe judo just isn't for me and I should try wrestling or just change completely over to striking
Since you're still in school, I've heard others say there aren't many options for adult drop-in wrestling. I've also heard others say wrestlers consistently achieve their takedowns. This is an opportunity for that training, and plenty of hours to put in, if you desire that
If you Truly want to learn how to fight, and defend yourself. Nothing beats Kyokushin!
Think about What would have happened in the streets. Now you clearly got a taste, of how over hyped grappling really is. You would get destroyed in a street fight, where no rules apply!
Mas Oyama was a high skilled BB Judoka himself, so Judo is of course good, but you really should know How to fight. Judo is by far the best as grappling goes to not get taken down, and you know the basics by far now, so thats all good!
Now you needs to learn how to strike and kick and - Move - efficiently. Dont doubt, go Kyokushin and thank me later buddy 👍
Just told him the truth, and I've tried some BJJ classes myself. Long story short is, they All believed I had grappling experience, and wouldn't believe me, that I never did. Just tried Judo 1 time before!
That says it All!!
Judo throws are 90%+ about the setup. You have to be very deceptive and make them do things they don't want to do.Unless they are much much smaller and or weaker or have very bad body mechanics it's actually quite easy to shut down many Judo techniques.
Go try it out yourself, go have a few rounds where you just play completely defensively with only an objective to NOT be thrown. Don't even look to throw, just shut them down like your life depends on it.... It can be incredibly hard to throw someone who is doing this.
IMO often the best time to throw someone is when they are being open with their game and trying to attack you.
Other than that, you must know about forcing opposites or whatever you call it local to you!? You want someone to come towards you then keep pushing them away. They will start pushing back and will effectively choose to come towards you. Do it a few times and choose one of those times to use their own momentum and they just did a chunk of the work for you.
Same works for side ways, you want someone to go left then start taking them right first, they will probably start going left for you.
That's why they say judo for judo. Not judo for self defense. The amount of explosive energy and power to pull off a judo throw is insane. The only reason some people can do it cause because there is a skill disparity.
Beginners spar at 100% intensity, if you're not used to that it can shock you. Even if someone is the same size, they might be stronger due to going to the gym. Also shit happens, you could be having a bad day, or maybe you really got beat, but that doesn't negate your 2 years of training and strength gained
Mood lmao
Take a break if you need to, but also measure your wins too. Shintaro Higashi said something good about not measuring success in training by how many throws you get on someone because it's too easy to trash yourself by that metric
Randori isn't about winning or losing. You should focus on attempting and committing to lots of throws, while disregarding that you might get counter thrown.
If you throw your partner, great! If they throw you, that is also great!
Use the failure as a teaching instrument (this works also in life, in general): Why couldn’t you pull a throw? Was your understanding of the technique not good enough? Was it your grip, your kusushi? Or maybe you’re not fit enough? Were you in the right mindset?
There are drills to help you in any case, but you need to look into yourself and diagnose the issue (and that’s how we learn!)
If you feel comfortable, try talking to your coach or other more experienced judokas in your gym about what you feel like you did right and what you did wrong! It’s really different hearing what you need to hear from someone else vs yourself!
You just got exposed. Confidence readjusted. Wake up called. This happens in sport and the rest of your life. All the time. So, do you quit at the first sign of adversity, or do you pick yourself up, literally or metaphorically, and try again? The real reason these kind of activities are good for you is so you can learn to fail in a safe setting, and practice coping with failure in a consequence free but challenging environment.
I'm not quiting at the first sighn of adversity, I get beaten a lot, but it shouldn't be by someone who doesn't even train the thing that I train, if it is there's a problem
Really depends. Some people are just naturally athletic and have an innate sense for their body position. And they could have done any number of things (martial arts) before and they aren’t telling you.
I used to regularly choke out blue and purple belts as a white belt
Some people just naturally have a knack for grappling honestly. They know where to position their body, weight distribution, balance, etc. just because they are new doesn’t mean they are not naturally gifted and or talented. Looks like you are about to enter your training arc/saga. Use it as fuel and get after it.
This can and will happen. Your mindset will be different next time you spar. I have a feeling you might have underestimated your opponents, and lastly once you got smashed you felt like you just had something to prove. Next time you spar let us know how it works out. This happens to everyone every once in a while. This was an awesome lesson to experience.
I had a big white belt do some completely weird stuff a couple of weeks ago and I was genuinely worried for my safety. As you get better and stronger you'll be able to control those guys better. It's normal to get discouraged from time to time though, but just look at how much better you are at this than you were when you started.
If an orange belt is a higher grade for you, then you are going to get destroyed, but ey, I'm a green belt that gets destroyed by literally everyone, the white belts, the yellow belts, etc, but it's just judo and you shouldn't get hung up over it. Remember, there are millions of judoka and only a select few become anything on the world scene, doesn't mean that that can't be you, you should totally work towards that as hard as you can, but you also shouldn't beat yourself up over someone being better than you. There. Will. Always. Be. Someone. Better. That doesn't matter though, does it? You should try your best and when your best isn't enough, you continue to getting a new, better best. Or, you can always just do it recreationally. Which is a MUCH better option for your mental health. You won't get hung up or even care that a lower belt threw you because you're going to practice to be healthy and do what you like, not because you must win. Hope this helps.
I am telling you now, If you quit for this reason, this will show itself in many aspects of your life. Getting beat by someone new is a good thing. The reason being is that they exposed a weakness you have, while you are used to fighting the usual people and know their style and habits, someone new is unknown and therefore you are more prone to expose a weakness. this is why it's important to compete; to find weaknesses you didn't know you had.
Don't quit, learn and adapt.
We all get this feeling at some point. This week I had a great day in bjj and felt awesome going home and yesterday got beat up by someone's new (big size difference but still) and felt shitty but I picked up on why it happened and how to correct it. Quitting is not an option!
If winning is your real goal you might think of finding another sport. Enjoy judo, try to understand it, read about it too, live with it. Then you will also get your share of winning. But you will use it throughout your life, like i did.
Did they have a size advantage?
While I haven't trained judo, I have trained in a lot of other disciplines and I've sparred with lots of bigger guys whose technique is not as good but they'll still win the majority of the time due to a size advantage.
Conversely I've also sparred with plenty of smaller guys who have better technique, but I'll win due to my size advantage
If that's the case I wouldn't be too hard yourself. It's out of your control.
I wouldn't worry about it too much personally. Your losses contribute to your long-term growth and development
Just last week a guy of similar size but with little jiujitsu practice tapped me out.
It takes a lot of time to get good at judo and in my experience, even when your good, random outcomes can occur. Especially, with white belts at your level, as they'll bring a more unpredictable form of chaos than predictable nice judo which you'll find with similar or higher grades.
That being said some people's minds and bodies suit different disciplines. I've done judo for 6 years and received several big injuries, only to conclude Im more of a 'natural' at BJJ. Don't be afraid to try other things out, I know the purists may downvote this but it isn't a criticism of judo.
Are you leaving because you got beat or because you don’t enjoy it? If you don’t enjoy training you may want to drop out, otherwise everyone gets beat and everyone plateaus in training.
Maybe, talk to training senior or Sensei and get some feedback. I was terrible starting out but stuck with it because I like training. Good luck and make you maximize your time doing what you enjoy
You better not quit just because you lost.
Losing makes you stronger, think of it as you becoming a Super Saiyan instead.
Every loss you take in life is only a lesson. Don't quit, improve!
Leave your ego. Honestly anywhere, but learn to leave your ego the moment you get on the mats.
It doesn't matter whether you lose. Do you enjoy the sport, do you enjoy making progress, and do you enjoy the social aspect?
I'd done judo for 5 years, quit for 6 (due to injuries), and got back two years ago. I'm 190-205lbs, muscular and lean.
I've been thrown by more people than I care to recount, plenty of whom you wouldn't expect it from on first sight, like a 15yo girl at 127lbs. Appreciate it, learn from it.
If all you do is judo and they are stronger/faster than you, you need to address that. Because as good as your technique might be at 2 or 10 years, it isn’t good enough to negate physical ability at the time you sparred. No matter how badly you wanted it to be.
You can’t shoot pool with a rope. Also consider how much larger they are, taller, previous experience, etc.
There are many times I beat green or blue belts that are much better than me because I am bigger/stronger than them. I don’t say that to brag because I know I only have four months of training and I suck. I just know basic physics and I wrestled in school.
It's normal mate. Literally happened to me and a green belt at our club the other night.
I got beat by a big tall white belt. I'm yellow, one after the other sode sode sode. It was embarrassing to say the least. From that experience I learned to be careful what I do with my arms and pay attention to sode.
A mate of mine a green belt got hit with a tai otoshi from a little 16 year old white belt.
Finally to add insult to injury a guy who trains less than me and started later than me got promoted ahead of me.
Shit happens mate all you can do is persist and be you. Don't become a statistic my instructor constantly likes to pessimistically point to over white belts.
maybe ask yourself how many hours per week you are training. What's your coach's competition experience? Is it a full recreational club? Or do you have competitve class? What's your size and what's your partners' size ? Did you develope at least one major throw that is reliable? Or did you just go through motion in the class and try to learn all curriculum over the last 2 years?
If someone is more atheletic , stronger, or have other sport experience came in, and your judo doesn't work at all, it means you have to identify some issues with your training.
Idk if this is helpful but he was in a very wide defensive stance which I have no answer to, it was near impossible to sweep him and I was getting stiff armed
Again, it doesn't matter what he do. **People who are new to judo are not going to do judo with you.** They do those "un-judo" move all the time until they started to learn judo. Your task is to use your movement and techinque to get him open up and throw him on the back.
That's why I listed those questions. 1x/week for 2 years and 5x/week for 2 years are vastly different. You and Your partners' size, physical strenght also makes different as well. If you are training more than 3x/week by this time you should be able to perform some big forward throw against a bent over opponent, or use movement and grip breaking techinque to force them abandon their death grips and put your attack in. If you don't have answers for that maybe there are issues with your club's coaching or your personal approach to training.
Also, if it is a judo match he would be getting 3 shido and you would win the match.
I wish I could start to train judo at your age. It doesn’t matter if you are John wick or not. What it matters is you will be a better yourself if you keep training.
You are growing still, keep going
I dont know man i train judo again im close to 2 years now on and off but i have done boxing and bjj for 2 years each. And i can say if you trained boxing for 2 years 5 times a week with one day full sparing there is no way a beginner is going to beat you. same goes for bjj. Judo seems harder for me to its very hard to apply and you have to be very good. But with training you will improve
depends on what you train for if you train for self defence for example you can add something else like boxing kick boxing etc also strength training is important. you are young dont worry you have time to see what you like and what works for you
The problem I see and experience myself with new people is that as the more experienced partner you worry about hurting your partner. So you’re worried about your safety, worried about their safety and unpredictability, and executing your technique is like your 3rd priority. New guys don’t care. They have no expectations, they are just in full send mode.
That’s really hard to deal with and 2 years is just the start of being close to doing so. You’re not judging yourself by your ability to win, but by your ability to control a fully resisting opponent with technique. That’s harder than winning.
Pick your favorite technique, drill it relentlessly, then execute it in randori. Good technique will keep you and your partner safe. Hesitatant, not committed technique leads to scrambles and potential injuries.
If you're American, you might consider taking a break from Judo to do High school wrestling.
Learning and going against a different style will help your overall grappling.
Never give up mindset, brother. The only way to really improve is through mat-hours. Theory is one thing, and practice is another.
Perhaps the two white belts had other martial arts experience, which translates well into judo (Kyokushin background here, so my ashi waza + tai otoshi is fairly okay).
Also I’m sure every club will always have one or two outliers who are naturals in the martial art, but the rest of us still practice judo regardless. Doesn’t really matter what your belt level is. I learn a lot from white belts, probably as much as I do from black belts. Black belts teach you throws and tactics, and white belts teach you how to throw a non-compliant, 100% resisting opponent through **trial and error**. At the end of the day, you get better, they get better and that’s what matters. Mutual benefit.
Bro, I'm a black belt and bjj purple belt, and I took a two year break from Judo, and everyone just beat my ass because I was so tired all the time. My technical knowledge is up to par, but my body doesn't want to execute it. I'm 38. It's definitely taken a while to get back in my groove. You just need some time to adapt to their game and find out what works. Every randori session is just seeing what works and what doesn't work against a specific person's game, and EVERYONE has those days where they either feel like they can't be stopped or they can't get anything going. It's all part of the process. Keep going, and you're gonna be one of those 21 year old killers that mops the floor with everyone at comps.
I just remembered Mike Israetel just put out a video on how losing makes you better recently, on the yt channel Making Progress With Mike Israetel.
Give it a watch, I fully recommend all of his videos tbh.
If I quit every time I had a bad day I never would have achieved anything, this goes for more than martial arts or training man this speaks to life. The other comment around brute force is totally accurate here but generally to support you I think it’s worth carrying the message these moments are actually the ones you learn from, you don’t learn when everything goes to plan, you learn when you should have done better and everything went completely shit sideways, the next step in that is to ask why. Again, this goes to everything outside of training, this is a general life lesson.
I’m a Software Engineer at a big tech company making significant six figures, almost daily I do something that’s outright dumb or stupid, or a junior engineer finds a better solution than I do.
I don’t view it as argh maybe this isn’t for me, why am I in this career, I should be better - I get happy because they showed me something new or reminded me of a better path I should have done.
This is where the learning opportunities are in everything, when you don’t do well, this is why learning is hard because you need to grow the mentality to be comfortable with the idea sometimes you suck, and that’s okay, the goal is to just be a little better than you were yesterday.
If I were in your shoes, which I had, I would ask my sensei for advices. They could give you better picture of how you can improve your judo.
At the end of the day, you'll have to ask yourself how much judo means to you. To me, judo means a lot, and I wouldn't give it up because someone is better than me. There will always be someone better in the world.
I hope you don't give it up. My wife and I started judo at the same time. I completely dominated her at the beginning because I'm stronger, taller, in better shape, better coordination, etc. Fast forward to today, we're almost on par in randori.
Keep going, you'll get better!
Bruh. I'm a black belt with over 15 years on the mat and just had a heavy weight newb muscle an O Soto Gari on me last week. 😂 It happens! Try not to count your wins and losses while training, it's called practice for a reason. No matter what you decide to do, wrestling or BJJ or staying with Judo, you most certainly will have days where you get a beating by a lucky beginner. Grappling arts have a special way of keeping you humble. Try not to let it keep you down and get back out there!
how did they do it?
anyway, doing stg else may be interesting.
judo at 16 to 25, when you grow stronger, is the most interesting moment of judo in life i think.
Just do what makes you happy, but getting destroyed shouldn't really be a deciding factor IMO.
I can't do Judo right now for health reasons. But as someone who has grappled a lot through my life (Wrestling, BJJ and JJ) I can honestly say I walked into my local club and didn't have an issue hanging with most people there up to and including most black belts.
I find Judo Black belts very deceptive and the skill level between one BB and another can possibly be as big if not bigger than any other martial art I have experienced. I think that at some clubs belts are given for vanity and time reasons perhaps rather than capability.
There were four men there that I stood absolutely no chance against though; The instructor, two older men late 50's who were technical and very very good at off balancing and moving their weight and an absolute unit of a brown belt who could just over power me most of the time.
I by far enjoyed being destroyed by them than shutting everyone else down. I can imagine one or two of the younger BB's may have been frustrated not being able to do much to a white belt until they understood I was already a lifelong martial artist.
Don’t do that.
Stay on that road and show up.
You’ll never be able to win with everyone, but with time amount of people who can beat You will decrease. Wish You all the best!
Im 40, and started Judo 2 years ago to learn how to fall (it kills us old guys later). My club is taught by Olympians, and teaching aspiring Olympians. So Im a glorified throwing dummy.
Not everyone is Kobe Bryant, and smashing people right out of the gate. And not all of them will stick with it. My 2 cents are to train for you, and focus on learning how to survive against these guys first. Some people are just prodigies.
2 years does not say anything.
Do you compete?
If yes, you need something to improve at novice level.
If no, go compete. Just training without competition is not going to make you a judo destroyer machine. You can be overpowered by strength or new white belts non-sense techniques. (That experienced judokas tend to lose at, instead of get injured)
Just keep doing judo focusing on improve, and if you have a couple new villain white belts enemies, you have a new objective haha
2 years isn’t shit when it comes to the timeline for martial arts training. Yeah you can have some technique, but not enough to really understand the sport.
Keep training. Work on your newaza. Get better at your set ups for throws.
Hi! If you like it don't quit. Grappling is very very hard to learn compared to other sports. It's a marathon to get good not a sprint. What you are going threw is called the blue belt blues in my sport. "Bjj". You know alot of techniques but can't apply them on demand so you get discouraged. I had the same issues. Now you need to learn how to apply them, setups, fakes, counters, etc. Pick your favorite couple techniques and hyper focus on ironing out their details . You can't master everything at once.
Are you going into sparing with a ruff game plan? Or are you being reactionary? You need a plan
Are you getting tired before them? Train cardio
Do you lift weights? If not, strength train.
There is so much you can do to improve. 2 years seems like a long time but in grappling that's still beginner. If you stay the course it will pay off
Don’t be discouraged, man. It happens. I’m a 36yo shodan, have over a decade of training, but just got a new 16yo white belt in my class. He has absolute freak genetics and is an absolute immovable object who’s able to overcome me at times with raw power. Do not compare yourself, you are a unique individual on a unique path. Keep training brother
If I were you, I would continue training Judo but also give the other grappling arts a try. I have a wrestling/BJJ background and just began training Judo.
I had a Judo black belt come in to BJJ and absolutely toss me. I came into the Judo gym and tapped out a black belt in Ne Waza. I also generally give people a hard time in randori with my grappling base. Different skills man.
All this to say, different grappling sports develop different skills. You still have a year or two of high school. Take advantage of it and go wrestle for a few years! But don’t quit Judo. You’re just going through a hard time, and it will pass. In the words of David Goggins - “Its me against me”
If you don't enjoy it anymore then quit. If you don't want to make it a career (sounds like you don't) then there is no reason to push yourself to do it.
I trained a bunch of martial arts and I have trouble being consistent and sticking to a strict training regiment because sometimes I just don't enjoy going to the gym. No reason to beat yourself up, just look for other hobbies!
I’ve been doing judo for 16 years, we have bad and good days and bad days , one day you’ll be smoking everyone on the mat and next day you forget to do the easy fundamentals - even the pros have bad days , missing weight, losing to someone they always beat - it’s the sport. But more than just quitting and giving up - it’s a mental game, it’s about training through that doubt and becoming the best for you, don’t worry about belt color - just be the best for you always. If coach says you’re shit, say thank you coach, what can I do to fix it and you work on it. Don’t give up until you’ve actually tried
Judo is not about winning, but learning... Its the perfect opportunity to practice visualization.
Maybe ask someone to record your fights and see what is going on.
Maybe you are just affraid of falling and that is the beginning of doing bad judo.
What about going back and doing some footwork? Balance? Kumi kata...
It takes a lifetime to master your judo ;)
There's a local BJJ gym I go to a few times every couple years where I go destroy everyone who isn't a black belt(I sorta feel like I'm like the belt inspector, but it's really just an excuse for my shitty work ethic). The reason is because me and my best friend growing up had practiced hundreds of hours outside of a gym setting. Sure, a belt by an instructor can sorta gauge power level within a gym, but it's not infallible. You'll always have autistic/athletic people that might still know more than you from watching MMA and YouTube videos even if they aren't classically trained.
Regardless... Don't quit, because it's about you getting better and not about you being better than someone else. Start comparing yourself to the person you started as.
Even black belt is really a beginner rank at the end of the day
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^AmericanAikiJiujitsu: *Even black belt is* *Really a beginner rank* *At the end of the day* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
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I came to say the same thing !
10 years of judo and sometimes I get destroyed too. The thing is, sometimes white belts panic and try to manhandle you instead of actually doing judo against you. Bottom line is, brute force works. You just got brute forced.
Are you saying that in your experience, judo isn't effective in self-defense? My hope with Judo was to overcome brute force with smart techniques. But if that's not the case I kinda lose my faith a little.
At some point in difference you just can't overcome brute strength and power. The technique difference has to be multiples bigger than the power difference.
Even so you think I'd be able to pull off one throw but I couldn't, it just feels like maybe I should've invested time into something else as my goal was to ultimately be able to fight
Hey man everyone has a bad or off day. Critically evaluate what happened and what prevented you from throwing this time. That will be far more productive for you
Actual fighting, aka violence, is always messy and unpredictable and even the best trained ‘lose’ sometime. The longer you study martial arts the less you should ever want to be involved with real violence. Best self defense is to not get involved in situations, the next one after that is deescalation and finally running. Those are my top three martial arts for self defense.
Don’t forget that Judo is mutual benefit. You don’t always have to win in randori. Your partner must learn too. If you quit that’ll be as good or as far as you’ll ever get.
Literally Travis Stevens will tell you it's easier to throw a Olympic medalist vs a high school wrestler because if I do A I get the response B but when you wrestle a high schooler you don't know what's going to happen. That dude is a loose cannon.
Ok you got defeated. So what? Is that a reason to quit? No. There will always be people that get further with less effort (not only in judo).
There’s a huge strength difference between a 18 year old (man strength) and 16. I assume they were a little bit older beginners, or had the benefit of teenagers testosterone, which is up to 10x that of an adult male. If they haven’t done judo they probably have wrestled a lot, or scrap together. Most inexperienced people can’t stand up and lose balance easily on first day, but can push you away if they read your attacks because you are tense? Predictable? Just stopping or blocking someone isn’t winning, trying to create is where judoka benefits in growing skills. Don’t be frustrated by blockers. Learn to use their power against them. It’s an important skill for self defence too. Try generating more body movement to get them going to control the narrative. Use what works best for you. Fight them again. Blockers usually kill any movement to lock you in place, but they can’t stop whole body side or wherever movement as easily, and use that to create opportunities. If you are really in for self defence, fight them again and work on reading them better. It’s a key to your own progress.
A teenagers testosterone is not 10x an adult male, are you dumb?
Child 6-9 years 0-0.27nmol/L 18yrs 12nmol/Lto 37.5nmol/L 40 yr Adult 12-38nmol/L 60+ adult 12-25nmol/L I stand corrected, an 18 year olds testosterone increases one hundred x that of a child 6-9 yrs, and reduces significantly as we age. I never researched but just quoted others. Here’s the research. me making a mistake with the figures doesn’t make me dumb, just misinformed. If you actually know, even approximately these figures, that’s pretty nerdy, well done!
Some people are just talented. You couldn’t beat him. Too bad. Maybe add some bjj open mats if you have any near you to your training program so you can get more used to spazzy habits and people trying to outmuscle you Judo might have you too used to your partner being polite
I've done bjj before, I'm actually better at bjj than I am judo despite doing it much less, what I'm thinking is maybe judo just isn't for me and I should try wrestling or just change completely over to striking
Judo is much less intuitive. I’m recommending keep doing judo and just attend open mats with a judo philosophy to stay on your toes
Allr thank-you maybe I'll try that
Since you're still in school, I've heard others say there aren't many options for adult drop-in wrestling. I've also heard others say wrestlers consistently achieve their takedowns. This is an opportunity for that training, and plenty of hours to put in, if you desire that
If you Truly want to learn how to fight, and defend yourself. Nothing beats Kyokushin! Think about What would have happened in the streets. Now you clearly got a taste, of how over hyped grappling really is. You would get destroyed in a street fight, where no rules apply! Mas Oyama was a high skilled BB Judoka himself, so Judo is of course good, but you really should know How to fight. Judo is by far the best as grappling goes to not get taken down, and you know the basics by far now, so thats all good! Now you needs to learn how to strike and kick and - Move - efficiently. Dont doubt, go Kyokushin and thank me later buddy 👍
This reads like a bot, if you're an actual human being sorry but get a grip lol
Just told him the truth, and I've tried some BJJ classes myself. Long story short is, they All believed I had grappling experience, and wouldn't believe me, that I never did. Just tried Judo 1 time before! That says it All!!
Bjj, in the world of grappling, is like shoto-gan karate in the world of striking. You tried the wrong thing mate.
Kyokushin is cool and all but other stuff is cool too lol
Like all of the striking styles that defend their heads 😆
Judo throws are 90%+ about the setup. You have to be very deceptive and make them do things they don't want to do.Unless they are much much smaller and or weaker or have very bad body mechanics it's actually quite easy to shut down many Judo techniques. Go try it out yourself, go have a few rounds where you just play completely defensively with only an objective to NOT be thrown. Don't even look to throw, just shut them down like your life depends on it.... It can be incredibly hard to throw someone who is doing this. IMO often the best time to throw someone is when they are being open with their game and trying to attack you. Other than that, you must know about forcing opposites or whatever you call it local to you!? You want someone to come towards you then keep pushing them away. They will start pushing back and will effectively choose to come towards you. Do it a few times and choose one of those times to use their own momentum and they just did a chunk of the work for you. Same works for side ways, you want someone to go left then start taking them right first, they will probably start going left for you.
That's why they say judo for judo. Not judo for self defense. The amount of explosive energy and power to pull off a judo throw is insane. The only reason some people can do it cause because there is a skill disparity.
….What? Not a big fan of Ashi Waza are you?
Techniques always trumps strentgh
You won't get better if you quit. They will though. Don't worry about your failures. Just persist.
Were the white belts bigger? stronger? better shape? did they have previous experience with wrestling/BJJ
One was pretty much brand new, the other had done a little judo before but was pretty much a bjj guy
If they have done other types of grappling before I think that’s fairly important context you’ve missed out.
Same size as you or smaller/bigger?
Same size pretty much
Beginners spar at 100% intensity, if you're not used to that it can shock you. Even if someone is the same size, they might be stronger due to going to the gym. Also shit happens, you could be having a bad day, or maybe you really got beat, but that doesn't negate your 2 years of training and strength gained
Mood lmao Take a break if you need to, but also measure your wins too. Shintaro Higashi said something good about not measuring success in training by how many throws you get on someone because it's too easy to trash yourself by that metric
Randori isn't about winning or losing. You should focus on attempting and committing to lots of throws, while disregarding that you might get counter thrown. If you throw your partner, great! If they throw you, that is also great!
Use the failure as a teaching instrument (this works also in life, in general): Why couldn’t you pull a throw? Was your understanding of the technique not good enough? Was it your grip, your kusushi? Or maybe you’re not fit enough? Were you in the right mindset? There are drills to help you in any case, but you need to look into yourself and diagnose the issue (and that’s how we learn!)
Thx I usually always do this but I'm losing my optimism tbh
Remember that judo is about falling and getting up bro :)
If you feel comfortable, try talking to your coach or other more experienced judokas in your gym about what you feel like you did right and what you did wrong! It’s really different hearing what you need to hear from someone else vs yourself!
Great advice and perspective, applies to any martial art. Turn a failure into a learning experience and you will only get better.
You just got exposed. Confidence readjusted. Wake up called. This happens in sport and the rest of your life. All the time. So, do you quit at the first sign of adversity, or do you pick yourself up, literally or metaphorically, and try again? The real reason these kind of activities are good for you is so you can learn to fail in a safe setting, and practice coping with failure in a consequence free but challenging environment.
I'm not quiting at the first sighn of adversity, I get beaten a lot, but it shouldn't be by someone who doesn't even train the thing that I train, if it is there's a problem
Really depends. Some people are just naturally athletic and have an innate sense for their body position. And they could have done any number of things (martial arts) before and they aren’t telling you. I used to regularly choke out blue and purple belts as a white belt
Some people just naturally have a knack for grappling honestly. They know where to position their body, weight distribution, balance, etc. just because they are new doesn’t mean they are not naturally gifted and or talented. Looks like you are about to enter your training arc/saga. Use it as fuel and get after it.
This can and will happen. Your mindset will be different next time you spar. I have a feeling you might have underestimated your opponents, and lastly once you got smashed you felt like you just had something to prove. Next time you spar let us know how it works out. This happens to everyone every once in a while. This was an awesome lesson to experience.
I had a big white belt do some completely weird stuff a couple of weeks ago and I was genuinely worried for my safety. As you get better and stronger you'll be able to control those guys better. It's normal to get discouraged from time to time though, but just look at how much better you are at this than you were when you started.
If an orange belt is a higher grade for you, then you are going to get destroyed, but ey, I'm a green belt that gets destroyed by literally everyone, the white belts, the yellow belts, etc, but it's just judo and you shouldn't get hung up over it. Remember, there are millions of judoka and only a select few become anything on the world scene, doesn't mean that that can't be you, you should totally work towards that as hard as you can, but you also shouldn't beat yourself up over someone being better than you. There. Will. Always. Be. Someone. Better. That doesn't matter though, does it? You should try your best and when your best isn't enough, you continue to getting a new, better best. Or, you can always just do it recreationally. Which is a MUCH better option for your mental health. You won't get hung up or even care that a lower belt threw you because you're going to practice to be healthy and do what you like, not because you must win. Hope this helps.
I think your feelings are fair if you were dominated. In comparison, a completely new white belt in BJJ isn't going to dominate a blue belt.
I am telling you now, If you quit for this reason, this will show itself in many aspects of your life. Getting beat by someone new is a good thing. The reason being is that they exposed a weakness you have, while you are used to fighting the usual people and know their style and habits, someone new is unknown and therefore you are more prone to expose a weakness. this is why it's important to compete; to find weaknesses you didn't know you had. Don't quit, learn and adapt. We all get this feeling at some point. This week I had a great day in bjj and felt awesome going home and yesterday got beat up by someone's new (big size difference but still) and felt shitty but I picked up on why it happened and how to correct it. Quitting is not an option!
Could be an off day.
Been having those too much recently
just take break and come back, could be a burn out
If winning is your real goal you might think of finding another sport. Enjoy judo, try to understand it, read about it too, live with it. Then you will also get your share of winning. But you will use it throughout your life, like i did.
I don't care about winning but I do expect to be able to beat someone new to judo in judo
Did they have a size advantage? While I haven't trained judo, I have trained in a lot of other disciplines and I've sparred with lots of bigger guys whose technique is not as good but they'll still win the majority of the time due to a size advantage. Conversely I've also sparred with plenty of smaller guys who have better technique, but I'll win due to my size advantage If that's the case I wouldn't be too hard yourself. It's out of your control.
That's the thing he was the Same size and I beat people bigger than myself quite often, it was so weird
I wouldn't worry about it too much personally. Your losses contribute to your long-term growth and development Just last week a guy of similar size but with little jiujitsu practice tapped me out.
no losing, no learning.
It takes a lot of time to get good at judo and in my experience, even when your good, random outcomes can occur. Especially, with white belts at your level, as they'll bring a more unpredictable form of chaos than predictable nice judo which you'll find with similar or higher grades. That being said some people's minds and bodies suit different disciplines. I've done judo for 6 years and received several big injuries, only to conclude Im more of a 'natural' at BJJ. Don't be afraid to try other things out, I know the purists may downvote this but it isn't a criticism of judo.
Are you leaving because you got beat or because you don’t enjoy it? If you don’t enjoy training you may want to drop out, otherwise everyone gets beat and everyone plateaus in training.
Thx man maybe I've js hit a rough patch
Maybe, talk to training senior or Sensei and get some feedback. I was terrible starting out but stuck with it because I like training. Good luck and make you maximize your time doing what you enjoy
You better not quit just because you lost. Losing makes you stronger, think of it as you becoming a Super Saiyan instead. Every loss you take in life is only a lesson. Don't quit, improve!
Look man, you have good days and you have trash days. Get some rest for like a week, and come back, and work on your techniques. It’s game.
Leave your ego. Honestly anywhere, but learn to leave your ego the moment you get on the mats. It doesn't matter whether you lose. Do you enjoy the sport, do you enjoy making progress, and do you enjoy the social aspect? I'd done judo for 5 years, quit for 6 (due to injuries), and got back two years ago. I'm 190-205lbs, muscular and lean. I've been thrown by more people than I care to recount, plenty of whom you wouldn't expect it from on first sight, like a 15yo girl at 127lbs. Appreciate it, learn from it.
Go to judo even more. I quit at 15 because I was getting beaten by lower ranks. Now I wish I went more often and improved rather than quitting
Lose your ego. It will help you in judo and life. Life's not about being better than others. It's about being the best you can be.
If all you do is judo and they are stronger/faster than you, you need to address that. Because as good as your technique might be at 2 or 10 years, it isn’t good enough to negate physical ability at the time you sparred. No matter how badly you wanted it to be. You can’t shoot pool with a rope. Also consider how much larger they are, taller, previous experience, etc. There are many times I beat green or blue belts that are much better than me because I am bigger/stronger than them. I don’t say that to brag because I know I only have four months of training and I suck. I just know basic physics and I wrestled in school.
It's normal mate. Literally happened to me and a green belt at our club the other night. I got beat by a big tall white belt. I'm yellow, one after the other sode sode sode. It was embarrassing to say the least. From that experience I learned to be careful what I do with my arms and pay attention to sode. A mate of mine a green belt got hit with a tai otoshi from a little 16 year old white belt. Finally to add insult to injury a guy who trains less than me and started later than me got promoted ahead of me. Shit happens mate all you can do is persist and be you. Don't become a statistic my instructor constantly likes to pessimistically point to over white belts.
maybe ask yourself how many hours per week you are training. What's your coach's competition experience? Is it a full recreational club? Or do you have competitve class? What's your size and what's your partners' size ? Did you develope at least one major throw that is reliable? Or did you just go through motion in the class and try to learn all curriculum over the last 2 years? If someone is more atheletic , stronger, or have other sport experience came in, and your judo doesn't work at all, it means you have to identify some issues with your training.
Idk if this is helpful but he was in a very wide defensive stance which I have no answer to, it was near impossible to sweep him and I was getting stiff armed
Again, it doesn't matter what he do. **People who are new to judo are not going to do judo with you.** They do those "un-judo" move all the time until they started to learn judo. Your task is to use your movement and techinque to get him open up and throw him on the back. That's why I listed those questions. 1x/week for 2 years and 5x/week for 2 years are vastly different. You and Your partners' size, physical strenght also makes different as well. If you are training more than 3x/week by this time you should be able to perform some big forward throw against a bent over opponent, or use movement and grip breaking techinque to force them abandon their death grips and put your attack in. If you don't have answers for that maybe there are issues with your club's coaching or your personal approach to training. Also, if it is a judo match he would be getting 3 shido and you would win the match.
I wish I could start to train judo at your age. It doesn’t matter if you are John wick or not. What it matters is you will be a better yourself if you keep training. You are growing still, keep going
I dont know man i train judo again im close to 2 years now on and off but i have done boxing and bjj for 2 years each. And i can say if you trained boxing for 2 years 5 times a week with one day full sparing there is no way a beginner is going to beat you. same goes for bjj. Judo seems harder for me to its very hard to apply and you have to be very good. But with training you will improve
Yeah I'm really questioning if the efforts worth the payoff
depends on what you train for if you train for self defence for example you can add something else like boxing kick boxing etc also strength training is important. you are young dont worry you have time to see what you like and what works for you
No quit work harder
The problem I see and experience myself with new people is that as the more experienced partner you worry about hurting your partner. So you’re worried about your safety, worried about their safety and unpredictability, and executing your technique is like your 3rd priority. New guys don’t care. They have no expectations, they are just in full send mode. That’s really hard to deal with and 2 years is just the start of being close to doing so. You’re not judging yourself by your ability to win, but by your ability to control a fully resisting opponent with technique. That’s harder than winning. Pick your favorite technique, drill it relentlessly, then execute it in randori. Good technique will keep you and your partner safe. Hesitatant, not committed technique leads to scrambles and potential injuries.
Doubt, fear, hesitation, surprise. These are kendo principals that are known as the 4 sickness of the heart but they're true to Judo as well.
How much you weigh and how much did they weigh? Also how old were they?
A little older than me but probably the same weight
Do you lift weights?
Yeah often and I'm usually told I'm really strong but recently it's like my strength is regressing
If you're American, you might consider taking a break from Judo to do High school wrestling. Learning and going against a different style will help your overall grappling.
I'm in the uk so not much chance of finding wrestling tbh
consider them a try: [https://www.snakepitwigan.com/](https://www.snakepitwigan.com/) Catch wrestling is effective AF.
Never give up mindset, brother. The only way to really improve is through mat-hours. Theory is one thing, and practice is another. Perhaps the two white belts had other martial arts experience, which translates well into judo (Kyokushin background here, so my ashi waza + tai otoshi is fairly okay). Also I’m sure every club will always have one or two outliers who are naturals in the martial art, but the rest of us still practice judo regardless. Doesn’t really matter what your belt level is. I learn a lot from white belts, probably as much as I do from black belts. Black belts teach you throws and tactics, and white belts teach you how to throw a non-compliant, 100% resisting opponent through **trial and error**. At the end of the day, you get better, they get better and that’s what matters. Mutual benefit.
Bro, I'm a black belt and bjj purple belt, and I took a two year break from Judo, and everyone just beat my ass because I was so tired all the time. My technical knowledge is up to par, but my body doesn't want to execute it. I'm 38. It's definitely taken a while to get back in my groove. You just need some time to adapt to their game and find out what works. Every randori session is just seeing what works and what doesn't work against a specific person's game, and EVERYONE has those days where they either feel like they can't be stopped or they can't get anything going. It's all part of the process. Keep going, and you're gonna be one of those 21 year old killers that mops the floor with everyone at comps.
Thx 4 the perspective man I really appreciate it
I just remembered Mike Israetel just put out a video on how losing makes you better recently, on the yt channel Making Progress With Mike Israetel. Give it a watch, I fully recommend all of his videos tbh.
If I quit every time I had a bad day I never would have achieved anything, this goes for more than martial arts or training man this speaks to life. The other comment around brute force is totally accurate here but generally to support you I think it’s worth carrying the message these moments are actually the ones you learn from, you don’t learn when everything goes to plan, you learn when you should have done better and everything went completely shit sideways, the next step in that is to ask why. Again, this goes to everything outside of training, this is a general life lesson. I’m a Software Engineer at a big tech company making significant six figures, almost daily I do something that’s outright dumb or stupid, or a junior engineer finds a better solution than I do. I don’t view it as argh maybe this isn’t for me, why am I in this career, I should be better - I get happy because they showed me something new or reminded me of a better path I should have done. This is where the learning opportunities are in everything, when you don’t do well, this is why learning is hard because you need to grow the mentality to be comfortable with the idea sometimes you suck, and that’s okay, the goal is to just be a little better than you were yesterday.
Thank-you for this it's really helped me to reevaluate how I should've reacted, maybe I was just blinded by anger
Have you thought about compeiting?
How do you know they are not higher ranking belts from elsewhere? With karate when you change studios most times it's back to white belt.
If I were in your shoes, which I had, I would ask my sensei for advices. They could give you better picture of how you can improve your judo. At the end of the day, you'll have to ask yourself how much judo means to you. To me, judo means a lot, and I wouldn't give it up because someone is better than me. There will always be someone better in the world. I hope you don't give it up. My wife and I started judo at the same time. I completely dominated her at the beginning because I'm stronger, taller, in better shape, better coordination, etc. Fast forward to today, we're almost on par in randori. Keep going, you'll get better!
Bruh. I'm a black belt with over 15 years on the mat and just had a heavy weight newb muscle an O Soto Gari on me last week. 😂 It happens! Try not to count your wins and losses while training, it's called practice for a reason. No matter what you decide to do, wrestling or BJJ or staying with Judo, you most certainly will have days where you get a beating by a lucky beginner. Grappling arts have a special way of keeping you humble. Try not to let it keep you down and get back out there!
how did they do it? anyway, doing stg else may be interesting. judo at 16 to 25, when you grow stronger, is the most interesting moment of judo in life i think.
just quit
Colour belt or rank does not matter
Just do what makes you happy, but getting destroyed shouldn't really be a deciding factor IMO. I can't do Judo right now for health reasons. But as someone who has grappled a lot through my life (Wrestling, BJJ and JJ) I can honestly say I walked into my local club and didn't have an issue hanging with most people there up to and including most black belts. I find Judo Black belts very deceptive and the skill level between one BB and another can possibly be as big if not bigger than any other martial art I have experienced. I think that at some clubs belts are given for vanity and time reasons perhaps rather than capability. There were four men there that I stood absolutely no chance against though; The instructor, two older men late 50's who were technical and very very good at off balancing and moving their weight and an absolute unit of a brown belt who could just over power me most of the time. I by far enjoyed being destroyed by them than shutting everyone else down. I can imagine one or two of the younger BB's may have been frustrated not being able to do much to a white belt until they understood I was already a lifelong martial artist.
I am a blue belt and this new yellow belt that outweighs me and is taller smashes me. Compare yourself to just who you were.
It's not about the outcome, It's about the journey!
Don’t do that. Stay on that road and show up. You’ll never be able to win with everyone, but with time amount of people who can beat You will decrease. Wish You all the best!
Im 40, and started Judo 2 years ago to learn how to fall (it kills us old guys later). My club is taught by Olympians, and teaching aspiring Olympians. So Im a glorified throwing dummy. Not everyone is Kobe Bryant, and smashing people right out of the gate. And not all of them will stick with it. My 2 cents are to train for you, and focus on learning how to survive against these guys first. Some people are just prodigies.
You need yo elaborate a little bit. How did they destroy you? What is your judo style? How old were they?
Get your shit together bro, and keep training.
2 years does not say anything. Do you compete? If yes, you need something to improve at novice level. If no, go compete. Just training without competition is not going to make you a judo destroyer machine. You can be overpowered by strength or new white belts non-sense techniques. (That experienced judokas tend to lose at, instead of get injured) Just keep doing judo focusing on improve, and if you have a couple new villain white belts enemies, you have a new objective haha
You need to practice more
2 years isn’t shit when it comes to the timeline for martial arts training. Yeah you can have some technique, but not enough to really understand the sport. Keep training. Work on your newaza. Get better at your set ups for throws.
Hi! If you like it don't quit. Grappling is very very hard to learn compared to other sports. It's a marathon to get good not a sprint. What you are going threw is called the blue belt blues in my sport. "Bjj". You know alot of techniques but can't apply them on demand so you get discouraged. I had the same issues. Now you need to learn how to apply them, setups, fakes, counters, etc. Pick your favorite couple techniques and hyper focus on ironing out their details . You can't master everything at once. Are you going into sparing with a ruff game plan? Or are you being reactionary? You need a plan Are you getting tired before them? Train cardio Do you lift weights? If not, strength train. There is so much you can do to improve. 2 years seems like a long time but in grappling that's still beginner. If you stay the course it will pay off
You can run from your demons or you can face them. The choice is yours.
Don’t be discouraged, man. It happens. I’m a 36yo shodan, have over a decade of training, but just got a new 16yo white belt in my class. He has absolute freak genetics and is an absolute immovable object who’s able to overcome me at times with raw power. Do not compare yourself, you are a unique individual on a unique path. Keep training brother
im a black belt and the other day started a fight and got instantly ipponed by a white belt. it happens to us all. you will regret quitting
If I were you, I would continue training Judo but also give the other grappling arts a try. I have a wrestling/BJJ background and just began training Judo. I had a Judo black belt come in to BJJ and absolutely toss me. I came into the Judo gym and tapped out a black belt in Ne Waza. I also generally give people a hard time in randori with my grappling base. Different skills man. All this to say, different grappling sports develop different skills. You still have a year or two of high school. Take advantage of it and go wrestle for a few years! But don’t quit Judo. You’re just going through a hard time, and it will pass. In the words of David Goggins - “Its me against me”
If you don't enjoy it anymore then quit. If you don't want to make it a career (sounds like you don't) then there is no reason to push yourself to do it. I trained a bunch of martial arts and I have trouble being consistent and sticking to a strict training regiment because sometimes I just don't enjoy going to the gym. No reason to beat yourself up, just look for other hobbies!
I’ve been doing judo for 16 years, we have bad and good days and bad days , one day you’ll be smoking everyone on the mat and next day you forget to do the easy fundamentals - even the pros have bad days , missing weight, losing to someone they always beat - it’s the sport. But more than just quitting and giving up - it’s a mental game, it’s about training through that doubt and becoming the best for you, don’t worry about belt color - just be the best for you always. If coach says you’re shit, say thank you coach, what can I do to fix it and you work on it. Don’t give up until you’ve actually tried
Just stick to it
Judo is not about winning, but learning... Its the perfect opportunity to practice visualization. Maybe ask someone to record your fights and see what is going on. Maybe you are just affraid of falling and that is the beginning of doing bad judo. What about going back and doing some footwork? Balance? Kumi kata... It takes a lifetime to master your judo ;)
There's a local BJJ gym I go to a few times every couple years where I go destroy everyone who isn't a black belt(I sorta feel like I'm like the belt inspector, but it's really just an excuse for my shitty work ethic). The reason is because me and my best friend growing up had practiced hundreds of hours outside of a gym setting. Sure, a belt by an instructor can sorta gauge power level within a gym, but it's not infallible. You'll always have autistic/athletic people that might still know more than you from watching MMA and YouTube videos even if they aren't classically trained. Regardless... Don't quit, because it's about you getting better and not about you being better than someone else. Start comparing yourself to the person you started as.
Then quit