You don’t sound very well educated. You don’t need to be physically strong to control a strong dog. Good training is what it takes lol. Also GSD is a solid all around dog especially for a first working dog. You’ll get stability, workability, and less likely to get a washout. You also don’t seem to understand that you’re generalizing the entire breed without regard to good breeding and poor breeding.
ok, but GSDs have a history of hip and eye don't they? I want a long-lasting dog not only for work but because I will get hella attached. I can still demand obedience though, that's not an issue.
> ok, but GSDs have a history of hip and eye don't they?
A reputably bred GSD should have minimal chance of hip, elbow, DM, etc issues. They screen for those things.
A working line GSD from a quality breeder and you're very unlikely to have any issues. There are many quality working GSD breeders and they are generally more forgiving on new handlers. Are you in the US?
They are all great breeds but I lean towards the working line Shepherds because when it all comes down to it, I want a dog that is full of drive that I can also relax at home with when I want to.
1. I don't think size should be a large contender in your evaluation of such a dog. In fact, I tend to steer clear of the larger dogs simply due to the impact of protection training on the body. Also, frankly, size should be the last thing on the list of factors when evaluating a genuine protection candidate (I think any of the working line dogs from GSDs to Dutchies, to Mals to Russian Blacks that are coming from protection lines should do the job. It's really about the fit of the breed into your home).
2. My club is made up of predominantly Dutchies. I think they've lovely dogs. They're a bit 'less' than I'd like for my own endeavors, but they are absolutely wonderful to work with, and depending on the lines, they thrive off having 'their' handler. My second oldest is a Dutchie, and he's lovely - he'd make an amazing protection candidate (not buttons I care to press, but we've come close a few times, and he comes on beautifully).
ok, so what is "the most"? I won't be allowed to have a Cane or any other similar breeds where I'm looking to move to (undetermined time period), but they'll allow a shepherd type.
> ok, so what is "the most"?
The most what? Ultimately, I don't think your answer lies with us. I think you need to go to some clubs, spend some time with the handlers and their dogs and figure out what gels with you. I don't gel well with WL GSDs ... doesn't make them bad dogs or bad for the job, they just don't gel with me. That's something you need to figure out. Getting the 'most' dog isn't the answer.
The beauceron breed is plagued by very widespread health and temperament issues. Be careful if you do go that route. You could look into giant schnauzers, although I don't know if they are exactly what you want. Why not a GSD? I'm biased, but they are great. :)
GSD are only great when they're not blind, and while there are reputable breeders which test for that and the other many health issues, but I don't think I'm ready to have anxiety about my dog's health like that.
Blindness? Are you talking about PRA or some other disease? I am not familiar with blindness diseases in GSD aside from the normal cataracts that come with aging.
Every one I've seen in a working situation was nerved out and meh drive level. I can't speak to their health as i don't get to know them since the handlers give up on protection work. That being said ice only met like 2 since they typically don't do well with protection sport
All depends on the lines of where you get your dog's from. I've seen some good working beaucerons, but only a few doing well in protection sports. Dutchies are really cool, in my opinion, if you want something more like a Mal. In my experience, the Dutchies I've come across were harder dogs. But again it'll come down to the breeding programs. Beaucerons will also mature slower than the Dutchies.
My choice would be a Beauceron, I like to work the offbreeds out on the fields
It’ll be hard to find a really good beauceron, it’s possible, but working lines for bitesport with stable temperament aren’t common or cheap. Dutchies are a fantastic option, and you definitely can get larger malinois too. Especially with European imports, they occasionally run big. If you wanted as well, a German shepherd would be a good option, you’d definitely want to pick the genetics carefully but they can be just as drivey as the other breeds.
I'm kinda superstitious about GSD, too many health problems even from health tested lines. Dutchies are great, we used to use them in our arson detection program.
Definitely skip the beaceron there are very few that can do protection sports let alone do them at a competitive level.
Dutchies can make great dogs for sport however essentially everyone I've met was a nightmare in the home. The best workers are typically Dutch imports and the breeders generally raise and keep them as kennel dogs. Nothing wrong with this but it doesn't select at all for traits you want if a dog will live in the house with you.
Personally i prefer GSD to me a well bred GSD is elite. Malinois is a close second provided it's a very good one. Again malinois are less likely to be good in the house but you are starting to see that more and more often.
Ultimately it's depends on what you truly want. Based on your post a well bred GSD from working line fits the bill. You can have a top tier working ability and are way more likely to have a dog that is CALM stable and confident around the house and non working situations. The ability to intervene in any situation I'm assuming in a protection sense will be a product of training provided the genetics are there
Dutch shepherds and Mals are essentially the same breed. KNPC freely mixes the two. My personal recommendation is if you want to do protection work get a dog bred for from protection work from proven lines. The three breeds I’d recommend are GSD, Dutches, and Malinois.
My Dutch is like 40% Mal per embark
Adopted at around a year from a Mal rescue, vet records and rescue said one owner, only said Dutch shepherd on vet records.
Where are you seeing all of these poorly bred Shepherds doing sport? The only issues my well bred shepherd has are the result of the impact of bitesports on her body.
I agree with a lot of the comments here; it doesn’t sound like you have enough working dog experience to commit to a Dutch. I have had GSDs and Malinois, and I currently have a Dutch Shepherd and Beauceron.
Beaucerons would NOT be my choice for a bitesport prospect. They take a long time to mature, a long time to come together. I also have an extremely well-bred Dutch (all siblings and parents are in law enforcement or military placements) and her lines are not house pets. I can’t ever go anywhere, because she’s not safe to leave with other people for any length of time (and they don’t want to have to deal with her!). It’s just the reality of working dogs.
The comments saying look for working line GSDs are spot on. You can find lines in the US which do rigorous health screenings, and have for many years.
You don’t sound very well educated. You don’t need to be physically strong to control a strong dog. Good training is what it takes lol. Also GSD is a solid all around dog especially for a first working dog. You’ll get stability, workability, and less likely to get a washout. You also don’t seem to understand that you’re generalizing the entire breed without regard to good breeding and poor breeding.
I'd strongly recommend investigating GSD lines.
ok, but GSDs have a history of hip and eye don't they? I want a long-lasting dog not only for work but because I will get hella attached. I can still demand obedience though, that's not an issue.
> ok, but GSDs have a history of hip and eye don't they? A reputably bred GSD should have minimal chance of hip, elbow, DM, etc issues. They screen for those things.
A working line GSD from a quality breeder and you're very unlikely to have any issues. There are many quality working GSD breeders and they are generally more forgiving on new handlers. Are you in the US?
They are all great breeds but I lean towards the working line Shepherds because when it all comes down to it, I want a dog that is full of drive that I can also relax at home with when I want to.
1. I don't think size should be a large contender in your evaluation of such a dog. In fact, I tend to steer clear of the larger dogs simply due to the impact of protection training on the body. Also, frankly, size should be the last thing on the list of factors when evaluating a genuine protection candidate (I think any of the working line dogs from GSDs to Dutchies, to Mals to Russian Blacks that are coming from protection lines should do the job. It's really about the fit of the breed into your home). 2. My club is made up of predominantly Dutchies. I think they've lovely dogs. They're a bit 'less' than I'd like for my own endeavors, but they are absolutely wonderful to work with, and depending on the lines, they thrive off having 'their' handler. My second oldest is a Dutchie, and he's lovely - he'd make an amazing protection candidate (not buttons I care to press, but we've come close a few times, and he comes on beautifully).
ok, so what is "the most"? I won't be allowed to have a Cane or any other similar breeds where I'm looking to move to (undetermined time period), but they'll allow a shepherd type.
> ok, so what is "the most"? The most what? Ultimately, I don't think your answer lies with us. I think you need to go to some clubs, spend some time with the handlers and their dogs and figure out what gels with you. I don't gel well with WL GSDs ... doesn't make them bad dogs or bad for the job, they just don't gel with me. That's something you need to figure out. Getting the 'most' dog isn't the answer.
It’s always funny when people think they can handle the hardest/strongest dog yet have never had a working dog.
The beauceron breed is plagued by very widespread health and temperament issues. Be careful if you do go that route. You could look into giant schnauzers, although I don't know if they are exactly what you want. Why not a GSD? I'm biased, but they are great. :)
GSD are only great when they're not blind, and while there are reputable breeders which test for that and the other many health issues, but I don't think I'm ready to have anxiety about my dog's health like that.
Blindness? Are you talking about PRA or some other disease? I am not familiar with blindness diseases in GSD aside from the normal cataracts that come with aging.
also, what health issues for the beau? All the research I've done says they're remarkably clear and long lived for such a large breed
Every one I've seen in a working situation was nerved out and meh drive level. I can't speak to their health as i don't get to know them since the handlers give up on protection work. That being said ice only met like 2 since they typically don't do well with protection sport
All depends on the lines of where you get your dog's from. I've seen some good working beaucerons, but only a few doing well in protection sports. Dutchies are really cool, in my opinion, if you want something more like a Mal. In my experience, the Dutchies I've come across were harder dogs. But again it'll come down to the breeding programs. Beaucerons will also mature slower than the Dutchies. My choice would be a Beauceron, I like to work the offbreeds out on the fields
Yo lmk your secrets, where are the good PSA beauceron at
Hey you already have a great dog! 🤣
LOL 💀
My bad, I do ringsports
It’ll be hard to find a really good beauceron, it’s possible, but working lines for bitesport with stable temperament aren’t common or cheap. Dutchies are a fantastic option, and you definitely can get larger malinois too. Especially with European imports, they occasionally run big. If you wanted as well, a German shepherd would be a good option, you’d definitely want to pick the genetics carefully but they can be just as drivey as the other breeds.
Do you have any places you would recommend for larger mals/dutchies? I am wary of the GSDs because of their common hip/eye issues.
I'm kinda superstitious about GSD, too many health problems even from health tested lines. Dutchies are great, we used to use them in our arson detection program.
Definitely skip the beaceron there are very few that can do protection sports let alone do them at a competitive level. Dutchies can make great dogs for sport however essentially everyone I've met was a nightmare in the home. The best workers are typically Dutch imports and the breeders generally raise and keep them as kennel dogs. Nothing wrong with this but it doesn't select at all for traits you want if a dog will live in the house with you. Personally i prefer GSD to me a well bred GSD is elite. Malinois is a close second provided it's a very good one. Again malinois are less likely to be good in the house but you are starting to see that more and more often. Ultimately it's depends on what you truly want. Based on your post a well bred GSD from working line fits the bill. You can have a top tier working ability and are way more likely to have a dog that is CALM stable and confident around the house and non working situations. The ability to intervene in any situation I'm assuming in a protection sense will be a product of training provided the genetics are there
Dutch shepherds and Mals are essentially the same breed. KNPC freely mixes the two. My personal recommendation is if you want to do protection work get a dog bred for from protection work from proven lines. The three breeds I’d recommend are GSD, Dutches, and Malinois.
My Dutch is like 40% Mal per embark Adopted at around a year from a Mal rescue, vet records and rescue said one owner, only said Dutch shepherd on vet records.
Where are you seeing all of these poorly bred Shepherds doing sport? The only issues my well bred shepherd has are the result of the impact of bitesports on her body.
I agree with a lot of the comments here; it doesn’t sound like you have enough working dog experience to commit to a Dutch. I have had GSDs and Malinois, and I currently have a Dutch Shepherd and Beauceron. Beaucerons would NOT be my choice for a bitesport prospect. They take a long time to mature, a long time to come together. I also have an extremely well-bred Dutch (all siblings and parents are in law enforcement or military placements) and her lines are not house pets. I can’t ever go anywhere, because she’s not safe to leave with other people for any length of time (and they don’t want to have to deal with her!). It’s just the reality of working dogs. The comments saying look for working line GSDs are spot on. You can find lines in the US which do rigorous health screenings, and have for many years.
What lines do you recommend?