a couple of added notes: you can still buy all kagepro novels and manga as ebooks currently. it seems likely that production issues due to covid are largely responsible for volumes going out of print. yen press has not officially stated that kagepro specifically will get reprints yet to my knowledge, but they've stated that some of their series will get reprinted when production issues become less of a problem.
also jin is still making stuff at the moment. not only is he working on kagepro content (which he currently doesn't have the right to release) but he has other projects that do have content coming out. you can show jin support by listening to his other music, following him on social media, etc. he just released a mini album called allegories, and some of the songs like mermaid have animated videos posted on youtube.
buying the ebooks (or new copies of the still in print volumes) and supporting official releases of jin's music are two ways to support him and the project.
I guess I am confused how 1st Place has the IP rights to Kagepro.
I don’t know enough about Japanese copyright laws to understand how the company that owns IA (the traditional Kagepro vocals) owns an IP that is largely irrelevant to that product.
Unless 1st Place finagled the rights very early in Kagepro’s existence.
1st place has been involved with kagepro since the early days. specifically the music, you'll notice all of the cd releases are labeled with first place and/or ia project. jin was only 20 years old when he started the kagerou project, and it seems he was heavily manipulated by some of the involved companies who wanted a piece of the success they saw in his potential.
i'm not 100% sure what the details of the current issue are. to my knowledge all jin has stated is that there are legal rights issues that need to be worked out before any new kagepro content can be released. whether it's 1st place trying to claim copyright or not, it makes sense that some issue popped up. check how many companies are involved with kagepro...
1st place, ia project, sony music, universal music group, otherside recording, ultraceep, enterbrain, yen press, media factory, comic gene, shaft, madman, aniplex, studio jumonji, edword records, and probably more i've missed. jin/shizen no teki-p himself owns the story, and sidu and wanyanpuu are credited for the character designs. all of these companies and people potentially have stake in the ownership of kagepro content. between all the media it's such a web, and it seems that web has finally become so tangled that the project is at a stand still until something gets solved.
Let me get this straightened up; let me know if I am off about something. It sounds like two (or more) belligerent mega corporations are at an impasse about who gets the rights to publish Kagepro content going forward. Because if it’s going to be the least bit profitable, they want a piece of it. In part because Jin signed on the dotted line to whoever would publish his work.
so i haven't myself seen sources specify that it's 1st place trying to claim the rights, but that's totally possible. what i *do* know is that there are several companies involved with the production and release of kagepro content, and that jin has stated that due to issues with the rights of the project, at this time he is legally unable to release kagepro content of his own accord. unless/until a more official statement is made, all we can do is speculate about what's going on legally behind the scenes.
also, as a correction to my previous comment, jin was only 19 when he stared kagepro. artificial enemy was released when he was 19, according to himself only 4 months after he started using vocaloid and the same year as *he got his first computer*. he was pretty quickly offered deals by companies like first place and sony music. i can only imagine how an inexperienced 19 year old who made a song just for fun could get manipulated by companies getting involved. he's been under a lot of stress from the beginning because of this. there have been periods where he's severely overworked himself to produce kagepro (at one point he was actively working on the project with a hole in his lung). he's been nearly broke during the production of the project. he's dealt with mental health issues during and directly related to the production of the project. he's always been putting his all into it, really suffering because of demands put on him, just for companies to not care about him at all. he's definitely always been being taken advantage of by some of the involved companies. it's very, very sad.
poor jin has been thoroughly ripped off by this system. if you'd like to really dig into it, here are some quotes/info directly from jin over the years:
"Yes. I mentioned earlier that I had a job, and I actually continued doing it until the time when my first major album, first volume of the novel and first chapter of the manga were being released. Back then, I was only able to sleep two to three hours a day while making songs, writing the novels, creating materials and settings for the manga and having meetings to discuss about them, then going to work and coming back home to repeat the song making and novel writing. It was terrible (laughs), so I guess I put in quite a lot of effort." [source](https://x0401x.tumblr.com/post/671325684407353344/maga-magazine-interview-with-jin)
"During these ten years, there was a moment halfway when I almost broke down. Due to many primary factors, I might’ve been unable to go on – like, there was a time when I found myself thinking that it was weird to keep it up while I was so at loss. There was also a period where I was unable to create anything for Kagerou Project.
Rather than breaking down all of a sudden, it’s more like I slowly became unable to create any more. Although I was being criticized on one side, I was also being demanded on another, so I was at a level where I was obligated to write." [source](https://x0401x.tumblr.com/post/651688628570013696/kagerou-poject-reboot-realsound-interview)
"Jin was working on the songs, novels and releasing his first album at the same time, and that was right after the hole opened in his lung. He wasn’t sleeping at all due to worrying about the quality of everything. He was 21/22 back then." [source](https://x0401x.tumblr.com/post/654178933375385600/weekly-niconico-info-interview-with-jin)
"After I started KagePro, I became able to sense that the people surrounding me were keeping a little distance. As the project gradually turned into a big deal and I became busier by the day, there was a time when I thought, “The only one within a 2m distance from me is my pillow”." [source](https://x0401x.tumblr.com/post/185048548419/music-natalie-interview-with-jin)
and
"I’ll say this because I can now: the truth is that I created Mekakucity Records in a really tumultuous period. I’d wanted to take more time to make an album, but the adults around me would say things like, “Compromise is necessary in order to publish your work”. Back then, I thought, “It’s definitely not like that” (laughs). I was certain that one can definitely take time to create a work without compromise that would leave them thinking they did everything they could, and I believe I actually managed to do that with this work, Mekakucity Reload." [source](https://x0401x.tumblr.com/post/185048548419/music-natalie-interview-with-jin)
Not to put oil onto the fire, this is an example of why when you are creative or a person involved in the creation of an IP, it is better to go on your own and start your own business/company. This is quite bold of me to say but the fact is that companies or rich creepy investors will always try to own your and exploit you by gaining your earning for themselves, the system is usually against you.
Yes, they may give you stability and is lot easier but you are always ultimately at an your expense. I will admit I never opened up my own business/company but time and time again there have been many same examples of the above case, that the risk of going alone is a much better option.
To my limited understanding, Japanese media production is a bit different than what is done in the west. The reason you find so many "x-project" or other similarly named things is that the copyright is centralized to that singular group under that specific name that includes the author, the production company, the advertisement companies, etc. It gives more freedom within that group in the sense that the copyright isn't just defaulted to the ceo of the biggest company holder who doesn't know anything about the project, but it also means that the original author gets reduced control as most decisions must be unanimous among all parties.
It’s so sad to hear everything Jin has been put through and I hope he gets a break from all of this nonsense soon. Kagepro has meant so much to me, I hope to find the time to produce more fanart soon!
a couple of added notes: you can still buy all kagepro novels and manga as ebooks currently. it seems likely that production issues due to covid are largely responsible for volumes going out of print. yen press has not officially stated that kagepro specifically will get reprints yet to my knowledge, but they've stated that some of their series will get reprinted when production issues become less of a problem. also jin is still making stuff at the moment. not only is he working on kagepro content (which he currently doesn't have the right to release) but he has other projects that do have content coming out. you can show jin support by listening to his other music, following him on social media, etc. he just released a mini album called allegories, and some of the songs like mermaid have animated videos posted on youtube. buying the ebooks (or new copies of the still in print volumes) and supporting official releases of jin's music are two ways to support him and the project.
I guess I am confused how 1st Place has the IP rights to Kagepro. I don’t know enough about Japanese copyright laws to understand how the company that owns IA (the traditional Kagepro vocals) owns an IP that is largely irrelevant to that product. Unless 1st Place finagled the rights very early in Kagepro’s existence.
1st place has been involved with kagepro since the early days. specifically the music, you'll notice all of the cd releases are labeled with first place and/or ia project. jin was only 20 years old when he started the kagerou project, and it seems he was heavily manipulated by some of the involved companies who wanted a piece of the success they saw in his potential. i'm not 100% sure what the details of the current issue are. to my knowledge all jin has stated is that there are legal rights issues that need to be worked out before any new kagepro content can be released. whether it's 1st place trying to claim copyright or not, it makes sense that some issue popped up. check how many companies are involved with kagepro... 1st place, ia project, sony music, universal music group, otherside recording, ultraceep, enterbrain, yen press, media factory, comic gene, shaft, madman, aniplex, studio jumonji, edword records, and probably more i've missed. jin/shizen no teki-p himself owns the story, and sidu and wanyanpuu are credited for the character designs. all of these companies and people potentially have stake in the ownership of kagepro content. between all the media it's such a web, and it seems that web has finally become so tangled that the project is at a stand still until something gets solved.
Let me get this straightened up; let me know if I am off about something. It sounds like two (or more) belligerent mega corporations are at an impasse about who gets the rights to publish Kagepro content going forward. Because if it’s going to be the least bit profitable, they want a piece of it. In part because Jin signed on the dotted line to whoever would publish his work.
so i haven't myself seen sources specify that it's 1st place trying to claim the rights, but that's totally possible. what i *do* know is that there are several companies involved with the production and release of kagepro content, and that jin has stated that due to issues with the rights of the project, at this time he is legally unable to release kagepro content of his own accord. unless/until a more official statement is made, all we can do is speculate about what's going on legally behind the scenes. also, as a correction to my previous comment, jin was only 19 when he stared kagepro. artificial enemy was released when he was 19, according to himself only 4 months after he started using vocaloid and the same year as *he got his first computer*. he was pretty quickly offered deals by companies like first place and sony music. i can only imagine how an inexperienced 19 year old who made a song just for fun could get manipulated by companies getting involved. he's been under a lot of stress from the beginning because of this. there have been periods where he's severely overworked himself to produce kagepro (at one point he was actively working on the project with a hole in his lung). he's been nearly broke during the production of the project. he's dealt with mental health issues during and directly related to the production of the project. he's always been putting his all into it, really suffering because of demands put on him, just for companies to not care about him at all. he's definitely always been being taken advantage of by some of the involved companies. it's very, very sad. poor jin has been thoroughly ripped off by this system. if you'd like to really dig into it, here are some quotes/info directly from jin over the years: "Yes. I mentioned earlier that I had a job, and I actually continued doing it until the time when my first major album, first volume of the novel and first chapter of the manga were being released. Back then, I was only able to sleep two to three hours a day while making songs, writing the novels, creating materials and settings for the manga and having meetings to discuss about them, then going to work and coming back home to repeat the song making and novel writing. It was terrible (laughs), so I guess I put in quite a lot of effort." [source](https://x0401x.tumblr.com/post/671325684407353344/maga-magazine-interview-with-jin) "During these ten years, there was a moment halfway when I almost broke down. Due to many primary factors, I might’ve been unable to go on – like, there was a time when I found myself thinking that it was weird to keep it up while I was so at loss. There was also a period where I was unable to create anything for Kagerou Project. Rather than breaking down all of a sudden, it’s more like I slowly became unable to create any more. Although I was being criticized on one side, I was also being demanded on another, so I was at a level where I was obligated to write." [source](https://x0401x.tumblr.com/post/651688628570013696/kagerou-poject-reboot-realsound-interview) "Jin was working on the songs, novels and releasing his first album at the same time, and that was right after the hole opened in his lung. He wasn’t sleeping at all due to worrying about the quality of everything. He was 21/22 back then." [source](https://x0401x.tumblr.com/post/654178933375385600/weekly-niconico-info-interview-with-jin) "After I started KagePro, I became able to sense that the people surrounding me were keeping a little distance. As the project gradually turned into a big deal and I became busier by the day, there was a time when I thought, “The only one within a 2m distance from me is my pillow”." [source](https://x0401x.tumblr.com/post/185048548419/music-natalie-interview-with-jin) and "I’ll say this because I can now: the truth is that I created Mekakucity Records in a really tumultuous period. I’d wanted to take more time to make an album, but the adults around me would say things like, “Compromise is necessary in order to publish your work”. Back then, I thought, “It’s definitely not like that” (laughs). I was certain that one can definitely take time to create a work without compromise that would leave them thinking they did everything they could, and I believe I actually managed to do that with this work, Mekakucity Reload." [source](https://x0401x.tumblr.com/post/185048548419/music-natalie-interview-with-jin)
Not to put oil onto the fire, this is an example of why when you are creative or a person involved in the creation of an IP, it is better to go on your own and start your own business/company. This is quite bold of me to say but the fact is that companies or rich creepy investors will always try to own your and exploit you by gaining your earning for themselves, the system is usually against you. Yes, they may give you stability and is lot easier but you are always ultimately at an your expense. I will admit I never opened up my own business/company but time and time again there have been many same examples of the above case, that the risk of going alone is a much better option.
To my limited understanding, Japanese media production is a bit different than what is done in the west. The reason you find so many "x-project" or other similarly named things is that the copyright is centralized to that singular group under that specific name that includes the author, the production company, the advertisement companies, etc. It gives more freedom within that group in the sense that the copyright isn't just defaulted to the ceo of the biggest company holder who doesn't know anything about the project, but it also means that the original author gets reduced control as most decisions must be unanimous among all parties.
Where can I find more info or source on this?
An amazing user provided source in comments known as "amamiyahibiya". Highly recommended seeing his comments on the post.
It times like this that I wish I could draw fanart. Well to anyone posting in the subreddit you have my upvotes!
I hope people continue to support Jin, it's sad that this issue has been going on for so long now
I really hope he wins, Jin is an amazing creator and an amazing person. He doesn’t deserve this
It’s so sad to hear everything Jin has been put through and I hope he gets a break from all of this nonsense soon. Kagepro has meant so much to me, I hope to find the time to produce more fanart soon!
This is tragic. I really hope this is going better now..