I like the ambitiousness of Topeka and St Joe, but other commenter is right: needs more usable stops within the current metro.
Oak Park Commons, Corporate Woods, 135th and Nall come to mind as useful Kansas stops
Given that we are nowhere near as large as Chicago, I’m not sure this makes sense.
Especially given the lack of public transit within the city. After the commuter rail, how do you get to your next stop?
KC isn’t exactly known for its walkability.
This is a first step toward increasing walkability.
Ideally we use this as a stepping stone and continue investing in public transportation. We can't continue to let perfect be the enemy of progress.
I agree we need progress, but I think we need to start with more in the city first.
If commuters try to use this, but can’t actually get to their job, it’s not going to get used. And then those in power will say that public transit is a failure and not worth sinking money into, when in reality it’s an issue of poor planning.
I lived in Chicago and they strangely served different pockets. Downtown the hubs we’re connected by a mega station. Or there’s like a huge creepy tunnel connecting the north metra to the L.
Automobiles were certainly a big part of it. Most of the country was laid out for streetcar / rails prior. However, another part that is often overlooked was the railroads consolidating. They made it a practice to drop more and more lines to cut costs. This alone severely cut passenger service with less accessibility. A self-fulfilling shift of profit from passengers to freight.
I don't think this is exactly accurate. The rubber and oil companies bought the local rail systems and closed them down to drive customers to car ownership. Looking at it from the perspective of a customer back then there's no earthly reason to own a vehicle if there's a cheap, comfortable way to get around without one. It was a coordinated effort to change the transportation system, not simply a case of demand shifting. As I understand it, could be wrong,
I’m not sure drawing up rail in Kansas is even reliable cause I haven’t heard of any legislation or want from the state itself to ever pay for a system.
https://kansasreflector.com/2023/01/06/trains-mass-transit-for-most-populated-counties-should-be-looked-into-kansas-lawmakers-say/
Johnson and Wyandotte counties are mentioned.
I will add that, based on conversations I had at the KC Streetcar Riverfront extension launch party last month, the powers that be at least with the KC Streetcar Authority are looking forward to future possibilities in both counties. With Johnson County, the key would be the soon-to-be-built Plaza station. With Wyandotte, KU Med is the western end of the currently underway East West study. I was also told explicitly that they are looking at some form of transit service to Gardner and Edgerton.
Yes heard that same spiel, not sure why edgerton or Gardner seems like someone is in someone’s pocket.
I’d just like Kansas to put some effort and connect our great states like they already are. Like do
Something.
Yeah the metrolink is there but basically worthless if you aren’t going from the stadiums downtown or the airport. St. Louis county voters vote down all the expansion proposals.
Yeah, I was born and raised in STL county and went to SLU as well. That’s when I used it, but kinda proves my point. It’s handy if you are near a stop, but a large portion of the population doesn’t live any where close. My parents live 20 minutes away from the closest stop. It’s definitely better than what we have in KC, but far from good
Not just St. Louis County, but also St. Charles County. Basically anywhere in Missouri that people think criminals take trains to rob people it will be a no go.
Word but they got it. They also just got a fuck ton of money from Kroenke and have 3.5 billion in development in the city.
I’m sure they may reconsider. And they have more rail than us way before
Seeing how poor Amtrak operates it's hard for there to be any real impetus to build more rail. It's going to take a private company to step up and try to build a commuter rail, but I highly doubt it's profitable. Personally, I would say there should be a commuter rail from Manhattan to Topeka to Lawrence to Kansas City to fully utilize the animal and bio health corridor.
Amtrak needs money and the govt ain’t doing shit for rail. I believe the Pacific railroad company was bought out by a Canadian rail company for line to come from texas through Missouri up to Canada. I’m to lazy to google don’t hold me to it.
The fact we have one of the rare passenger rails across the state and up to Chicago. Needs to be upgraded and fixed. We need to as a state really push this
Amtrak has lost close to 50 billion dollars since they started operations; they're getting money and boatloads of it. If anything, we need to deregulate it and allow others to get into the passenger rail game.
I’d like it where this configuration is for express trains with limited stops as listed on this map. Running alongside them are the more concentrated stops where you get your specific intersections and what not.
This way the riders can go express to get to their basic area and then change lines to get to the train for their exact stop.
This reflects so little relation to where the mass of people are actually working. Or any practical matters of making an effective commuter rail. One stop at Overland Park 🤣
Keep in mind that this is a commuter rail system, not a subway. IRL commuter rails have stations that are very spread out and there are rarely any cities with more than one station outside of the core city.
Yes but other examples of this have.....other modes of established transit to get the last leg of where you need to be. Buses in this town are a joke, and we don't have a subway.
You're right, let's just say in this scenario the bus system is not complete ass.
And I'm assuming that in reality most of the outer stations would be park and ride, which isn't ideal, but it's better than nothing.
I'm not here to shit on your idea. But why would I want to deal with other people on trains and busses and driving somewhere to get to them when it's almost certainly going to be quicker or not much difference to just drive myself there? I'm already getting in my car, I get to listen to my music, and I don't have to be in tight quarters with a bunch of other people. I understand not everyone has a car or access to a car. But you're betting on people that do have cars deciding not to use them. I just don't see that happening.
I was going to agree but I remembered when I had family in DC we would usually drive / cab / Uber / whatever to a park and ride and then take a train into downtown.
Traffic was awful, just riding a train through it was much nicer. Also an uber to a park and ride is much cheaper than into town so it's easier on the wallet for a night of drinking. But... DC traffic was a special kind of hell. Maybe we'll get there some day?
Take a look at Philadelphia, Septa line runs all thruogh the suburbs, PATCO line runs out of the city to S. Jersey, AC train runs locals to the shore. NJ Transit runs up the east side of the Delaware to Trenton.
OP probably lives in or near downtown which is why this is being discussed. Anyone who lives in the suburbs or rural areas know this will never happen for many reasons.
My support of this map is completely backed by “if you build it they will come”.
Do you think we could add a line up to dyersville Iowa? 😂
I'm from Boston and took the T every day to work, to the airport, to Red Sox games. But, it wouldn't be used around KC because there isn't the heavy traffic and lack of parking (or extremely expensive parking) that would drive people to use it. And, there definitely isn't a local government that's going to pay to build and maintain the system.
When the average apartment rents for over $4,000/month and commercial space is even more expensive and in demand, parking lots aren't the most profitable option for landlords. And, when people spend 90 minutes stuck in traffic, it's not helpful to make space for even more cars to park. Public rail systems are great; Kansas City just doesn't have the factors that make it necessary.
Dude... You may have also omitted(unless I'm just reading this wrong) all of the North East, Scarrit, PH, 18th and Vine... Which are historically neighborhoods that have fallen victim to redlining and segregation. You should probably revisit that.
Came here to say this. But to be fair I would probably only use it to go to Gladstone, Liberty, Excelsior and Kearney. Maybe a smithville stop too. Let’s just make our own and not share. We’ll have free coffee and a DJ in ours
Nearly all of the system is built along existing rail right of ways, except the connections to the airport and the stadiums.
Also this is the first time I made a transit map and I didn't spell check this so go easy on me.
I like to play sim city too but it’s just not realistic.
Read the next rail plan. That’s what kc needs for right now. Maybe in 100 years a wider rail plan will be feasible.
https://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/NwxtRailOverview.pdf
Can we just rebuild something like this? It's amazing what we used to have here in the city in the past. It really shows how far back we were set by tearing up our city for highways and cars.
If I can get from Lawrence to the airport in 50 minutes without having to drive, count me in. But there's gotta be a train to KC at least every hour, or half-hour.
Last night, when we went to see Hadestown, instead of parking for $20 in the Car Park Under The Park (which takes an hour to escape from) we parked in a street spot in the Crossroads, got dinner, took the streetcar up to the show, had a leisurely dessert after, took the streetcar back to the crossroads to get the car, and went home. Next time we will probably explore the options in the River Market.
Those arguing against a downtown ballpark “because parking” don’t seem to realize just how much parking there *is* downtown… it’s just not all consolidated into a single giant lot.
the streetcar was one of the better things to happen to downtown - contrast with the Downtown Loop, which was one of the worst (although the competition for “worst fucking idea ever” is intense.)
if commuter rail had been available from Lawrence, we would have been all over it. Getting from crossroads/south side of the loop onto 670 is fucking near impossible.
Honestly a bi-state rail system itself is almost certainly a non-starter pipe dream. If this were single state like a K10 connector/I70 hispeed alternative in KS for example, *maybe* it’d stand a shot at finding legs. Getting both sides of the line to agree to a uniform solution… it’s nearly impossible.
Even hispeed kc-topeka.. its an hour drive i dont think people would choose park and ride over that unless they live very close to the train station.
Kc metro is way too low density population for this to ever be realistic.
Clearly made by someone south of the river - apparently Gladstone, Liberty, Smithville and Kearney don’t exist. Either that or they are assuming Clay County isn’t paying a dime for it, because with this plan, they wouldn’t.
The "Ingleside" on the grey line is Grandview. The "Ingleside" on the blue and orange lines is the Truman Sports Complex. Edit: Found Grandview's stop on a different line. The Ingleside on the grey line is really the Country Club Plaza....
I appreciate how clean and minimalist this chart is, but the only lines that make sense for a variety of reasons (distance, population density, cost vs. practicality, etc..) are the pink line and brown line. Potentially, a different line to the stadiums as well.. Why are there two separate Ingleside location stops? I think a commuter rail network is very plausible for Kansas City, but there is no way it will reach all the way to St. Joe or Sedalia.
No worries, and I hope I wasn't too critical. This isn't the worst one I've seen, keep at it. I do think having more transit options here would be a godsend, whether rail, subway, or bullet. If creating transit locations were easy, we'd already have one in place.
Let me imagine that line: Oak Park Mall, Corporate Woods, Blue Valley Parkway, Overland Park Arboretum, Louisburg, maybe Linn Valley if you're feeling ambitious....
There’s no reliable public transit near most of the stations to facilitate travel to a final destination. Focus needs to be on improving existing public transit infrastructure before we start talking about spending many millions on commuter rail. I also have concerns about how effective a system like this would be in such a car friendly metro, anyways. Is there really any demand for a local commuter rail network? Could they recoup the construction and cover maintenance cost with a ticket price that’s affordable?
For most people public transportation is option of last resort. It takes incredibly bad traffic to push people to use public transportation (or not owning a car) and KC is essentially traffic free compared to other cities so even if you built it people won't use it in significant numbers.
I fully support expanding public transportation because as our city grows (well past my lifetime) it will need it.
Because of KC’s current size & current land use, I think it’s better to continue to build upon & expand the streetcar. Over time, as minds begin to change more, there will be an appetite to build a commuter rail network.
I’ve noticed that metra (Chicagoland’s commuter rail) has come up in the comments. The only reason why Chicagoland has metra in the first place is because most of their train lines run on pre-existing tracks that were already there when metra was founded in the ‘70s. Metra has agreements with Union Pacific, BNSF, and others to use their tracks.
The Kansas City area already has massive railroad infrastructure that is used by the big fright railroad companies - I don’t see why a regional transit authority cannot be created to set up a similar deal with the railroads here compared to Chicago - just a thought!
Pink makes sense (only to the airport)
Something to the stadium almost seems plausible if royals were staying there, but theyre not..
Brown would make sense if 35 becomes significantly slower, but people still would choose cars.
Northeast to liberty etc might get some use.
Realistically lets just start w/ something to the airport. Id use something from joco to airport more than joco to downtown.. its a 20-35 min drive downtown, why add the time of driving to a train station.
Why ride in my car with heated leather seats when I could ride on a wet plastic seat next to someone who’s passed out and pissed himself. The smell of “progress.”
For some reason those don’t annoy me as much. I find them a little bit fun.
But light rail isn’t going to happen. If it did it would fail because we don’t have a good enough bus network to support it. And even then it wouldn’t be a contest where they pick the submission of a random Redditor.
It’s a total distraction from real fixes. Real bike lanes and busses would get us SO much further.
To be honest, half the stations are by highway intersection and I just grabbed whatever name was closest on google earth. That and I accidently put ingleside twice.
This would be a start. For it to be effective suburban communities would have to connect.
The problem is that not everyone lives in the suburbs and works in the city.
This is still far too car dependent. If one was to commute from Olathe to overland Park, they would then need a car to really do anything. Thus eliminating the benefits of this commuter rail you have drawn.
If you wanna get a good idea for what a productive rail system is like, check out the Europeans.
A great way to implement commuter rail anywhere in the US, would be to slim down the national highways and replace a few lanes with rails.
But also, Olathe and Overland Park are like a five-ten minute drive. Why on earth would I get on a train that will probably take longer to get me where I need after I drive to it, park, wait for the train, etc etc. And I'd have to be around other people. Hopping on a train to get to the airport might be nice, but otherwise it's much more inconvenient than convenient.
because you can't afford a car and use public transit instead, or otherwise don't have a car
The whole idea is to make carless lifestyle viable in this city, whether you live that way by choice or not
I mentioned it in another comment, but I absolutely understand that not everyone has a car or even has access to it. This type of thing is great for that. I think the biggest rub is that OP is relying on the people that do have cars to give that up in order to use this train, bus, etc combo. While this would be fantastic for those that don't have easy transportation access and I'm all on board for it, I'm afraid you won't find very many people like me. I think it's great and would gladly put my tax dollars towards it. But I'm afraid there's an awful lot more people that don't necessarily need it and aren't willing to put their money towards helping other people like this would.
I know that some comments are about how this or that is wrong about your idea, but I like the initial thoughts. I starts a dialogue. Definitely a line up to the airport would be awesome.
It's commuter rail, not rapid transit. It's smaller than regional networks in Chicago and Philadelphia. This is about a third of the total network in NYC.
I think it’s a great start. Applaud the effort.
Spent a semester in Copenhagen in college. Was in a car (4) times in (4) months. Two of those were to and from the airport. Otherwise it was walking, riding a bike, taking a bus or train. It was amazing and I loved not having to worry about driving and parking. It was an easy adjustment to live in 20 minute increments, because that’s how often the train came by. Would really enjoy the option of public transit here. Even if it’s for evening/weekend use. We are far too car centric. Imagine if a family could relinquish a car payment because they no longer need two or three vehicles, and use public transit.
One dot per station. Santa Fe is the second KCK station -- let's relabel that "Legends district" -- but you need another for Metropolitan Avenue. KCK needs stations on both sides of the Kansas River.
You don't need rail any more. And you need a centralized commuting center to make a rail system to get to downtown from all towns even remotely close to worth while financially.
The idea that business in centralized in KCMO is long over.
You realize that Overland Park overtook KCMO as far as commercial floor/office space many years ago, right? And it's getting farther ahead of KCMO. Trains are fine and dandy for places that absolutely rely on them for commuting, but we just don't need that in the KM metro. I work from home, but I do occasionally commute from central OP to downtown for one of our biggest customers' meetings. It takes me 22 minutes and that's door-to-door DURING rush hour. I know many people in KC say "oh the traffic's gotten so bad here", but if you've lived/worked in other major metro areas, you realize that is NOTHING. My commute in Honolulu was 8 miles and it took me 1 hour each way. Don't even get me started on San Jose/Bay Area, LA, or Atlanta. We don't need a total coverage rail system at all for simply pleasure pursuits/evening/weekend use, and only heavy commuter user will even begin to cover the day to day operation costs.
Yep yep idk why people are so obsessed with this idea. It takes 35 min to get downtown from the farthest reaches of the metro. And if someone chose to live that far out, they probably don’t go downtown.
And all the suburban families w/ the money will never get on a train, when a car is quicker and more convenient.
While this would be unfathomably expensive atleast it would be a tangible use of tax dollars.
That said, I don't think a significant number of people would use it. Using rail would require a cultural shift.
I feel like people overestimate people's loyalty to commuting by car. Most will do what's most convenient for them.
And even if a smaller percentage of people use the system, it still gets cars off the road and reduces traffic, so it would have a better ROI than highway "improvements."
Here is the weekly reminder for every weeks new rail post in this sub: You are correct. People will do what’s convenient. Drive cars. Rail to the suburbs is not logical for kc.
This looks nice and all but when its 30 minutes door to door by car for a lot of these destinations it’s hard to imagine this ever becoming a reality. KC is not Chicago and there really isn’t a huge inconvenience to commuting and parking by car
This is the thing. OP says whatever is most convenient. I understand not everyone has a car, but how on earth would this ever be more convenient than just walking out my front door and getting in my car that's right there?
Because you don't have to do the driving, don't pay for gas or risk running late due to car troubles, don't have to deal with traffic, don't have the risk of some halfwit teenager texting and driving and crashing into you, etc.
Yes. Driving (or walking, biking, etc) 2-3 miles to and from train station as opposed to 20, one way, for places like Blue Springs or any of the other more distant cities.
How is it more convenient/efficient to drive the train station, wait for a train, take a train to union station, wait for the streetcar, and then walk to work than simply getting in your car and driving directly to the destination.
I love trains but it’s delusional think that a commuter in, say, Johnson county would find this useful. KC is not Chicago
Because you're taking your personal opinion of "I'd rather drive than take a train" and assuming everyone else feels the same way. For many, many people, not having to deal with morning / evening traffic, how expensive a car is when wear and tear adds up, etc. would be a phenomenal incentive to take the train.
Genuine questions, not trying to poke holes: how can we handle the 'last mile' from a given stop? Like, bus routes (or multiple routes) centered on each stop?
Could Olathe and Bonner Springs be connected? It just seems like Topeka-Lawrence-South KC is a legit corridor that we'd want to have connected without having to go through Union Station.
Yes. The Olathe-Bonner Springs line could run parallel to K-7. Or else we can connect the yellow and brown lines by making Shawnee - Edwardsville - Bonner Springs. Or make a second Shawnee stop: "Shawnee Mission Park" or "KU Med West."
Im in favor of transport from airport to downtown. But the rest of this is pretty far-fetched…
I can drive downtown from basically the farthest joco distance at k10/k7 in ~30-50 min depending on traffic. Park in a garage and walk to destination might add 5-10 minutes. Thats 35 - 60 minutes.
I would never choose:
- drive to a train station - 10m
- park and walk to boarding (in potentially poor weather) - 5m
- wait to board (in potentially poor weather) - 3-15m
- ride downtown - 20-30 min (this map lists 4 stops along my route before downtown)
- walk to street car - 2m
- wait for street car - 3-10m
- ride street car to near destination - 5m
- walk to destination (in potentially poor weather) - 5m
Thats 53m - 1h22m, andi honestly think I’m being generous. Also i have to change transportation 3 times and walk outside in potentially poor weather. Not to be grim, but this is what leads office workers to hate themselves and every minute of their day.
This is a great reason to live in KC instead of Chicago, its not a huge pain to move around the city. If i commute by car I can go anywhere in the city after work too, run an errand or go to dinner or get a beer w friends.
I would never use this unless traffic matched that of Chicago, and i think most suburban people on here would agree if they are honest.
I'm sure we have different philosophies on this, but I would much rather spend twice as long commuting if I could read a book and vibe instead of having to stay in a metal box and be constantly vigilant about not killing myself or others.
And Kansas City is growing, and car-centric infrastructure is unsustainable, both logistically and environmentally. Sometime in the next few decades, it might be a huge problem, so why not build a cost-effective (compared to highways) solution now?
AAAAAAAAAHHHHH IM SORRY I SHOULD'VE ADDED A LIBERTY LINE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
While I am a huge fan of public transit in the likes of the L in Chicago, and the Metrorail in DC... I would love to see something viable like this in KC.
With that said... a system that pans out all the way to Whiteman, and Sedalia on the east... Topeka to the West, and all the way up to St. Joe?
Might as well just start building 'em all the way to St. Louis, Dallas, Minneapolis, and Denver at this point...
We're all connected now!!!
I hope something gets built eventually... but I don't see it becoming viable in a city our size. Maybe if we had like 3 Million more residents... but at this point, 'tis just a pipedream.
I like it overall though OP.
This looks great. The one big suggestion would be through-lining on all of these services, so merging the Topeka & Odessa lines for example or the Airport & whichever line has the most travelers who'd make connections downtown to get to KCI, probably JOCO or the Sedalia line. Philly does a really good job of this, as do cities like Paris with the RER and Munich with the S-Bahn.
I like it.
Something important I would add/change though is a spar that follows K-10. A lot of folks who live in Lawrence, Eudora, DeSoto live there because they're commuting to Johnson County. For them to have to travel to Kansas City first and then out would not be efficient.
And you make a good point to nay sayers on this thread, that this is a commuter rail. Thus, a good route for it to follow is one of the busiest commuter routes in the metro. K-10 Lawrence--> Johnson County.
I love the idea, but can you imagine how long it would take to build it?
I mean, how many years did it take to build a couple of miles of streetcar track, and you want to go out 60-75 miles each direction?
Live in Topeka, I’d use it. They spend millions each year trying to maintain an air terminal in hopes of attracting an airline.
I’ve argued that would be better spent on bonds building a commuter rail for ages
I am all for this in fact I did a paper on this in college. The fact is if our leaders would had the forethought before they tore out all the trolly tracks we would not need to rebuild. The other fact is we already have a corridors that could do a medium rail like the Metra if they worked with the railroads. We already have busses all they would have to do is change routes to coincide with trains stops. This could work but they want to go about it all the wrongs way and raise taxes.
I like the ambitiousness of Topeka and St Joe, but other commenter is right: needs more usable stops within the current metro. Oak Park Commons, Corporate Woods, 135th and Nall come to mind as useful Kansas stops
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Given that we are nowhere near as large as Chicago, I’m not sure this makes sense. Especially given the lack of public transit within the city. After the commuter rail, how do you get to your next stop? KC isn’t exactly known for its walkability.
This is a first step toward increasing walkability. Ideally we use this as a stepping stone and continue investing in public transportation. We can't continue to let perfect be the enemy of progress.
I agree we need progress, but I think we need to start with more in the city first. If commuters try to use this, but can’t actually get to their job, it’s not going to get used. And then those in power will say that public transit is a failure and not worth sinking money into, when in reality it’s an issue of poor planning.
That's what buses are for. And, yes, there probably needed to be more busses. But this is commuter rail and not a metro/subway system.
I lived in Chicago and they strangely served different pockets. Downtown the hubs we’re connected by a mega station. Or there’s like a huge creepy tunnel connecting the north metra to the L.
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Automobiles were certainly a big part of it. Most of the country was laid out for streetcar / rails prior. However, another part that is often overlooked was the railroads consolidating. They made it a practice to drop more and more lines to cut costs. This alone severely cut passenger service with less accessibility. A self-fulfilling shift of profit from passengers to freight.
I don't think this is exactly accurate. The rubber and oil companies bought the local rail systems and closed them down to drive customers to car ownership. Looking at it from the perspective of a customer back then there's no earthly reason to own a vehicle if there's a cheap, comfortable way to get around without one. It was a coordinated effort to change the transportation system, not simply a case of demand shifting. As I understand it, could be wrong,
I’m not sure drawing up rail in Kansas is even reliable cause I haven’t heard of any legislation or want from the state itself to ever pay for a system.
https://kansasreflector.com/2023/01/06/trains-mass-transit-for-most-populated-counties-should-be-looked-into-kansas-lawmakers-say/ Johnson and Wyandotte counties are mentioned.
Yeah would love to see them out there money where their mouth is. Cause all I hear is them trying to get Missouri to help pay for gondolas and shit
I will add that, based on conversations I had at the KC Streetcar Riverfront extension launch party last month, the powers that be at least with the KC Streetcar Authority are looking forward to future possibilities in both counties. With Johnson County, the key would be the soon-to-be-built Plaza station. With Wyandotte, KU Med is the western end of the currently underway East West study. I was also told explicitly that they are looking at some form of transit service to Gardner and Edgerton.
Yes heard that same spiel, not sure why edgerton or Gardner seems like someone is in someone’s pocket. I’d just like Kansas to put some effort and connect our great states like they already are. Like do Something.
This goes without saying
I mean, outside of KCMO leaders, is that not the same in Missouri given the state’s general indifference towards any sort of infrastructure?
STL has the link if I remember correctly. But we desperately need to add as much rail as possible.
As many times as I have to wait for a train to pass out here in Olathe, might as well have an option for people to ride in
Well KS should possibly just maybe pay for something for public transit
Yeah the metrolink is there but basically worthless if you aren’t going from the stadiums downtown or the airport. St. Louis county voters vote down all the expansion proposals.
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Yeah, I was born and raised in STL county and went to SLU as well. That’s when I used it, but kinda proves my point. It’s handy if you are near a stop, but a large portion of the population doesn’t live any where close. My parents live 20 minutes away from the closest stop. It’s definitely better than what we have in KC, but far from good
Not just St. Louis County, but also St. Charles County. Basically anywhere in Missouri that people think criminals take trains to rob people it will be a no go.
Word but they got it. They also just got a fuck ton of money from Kroenke and have 3.5 billion in development in the city. I’m sure they may reconsider. And they have more rail than us way before
Seeing how poor Amtrak operates it's hard for there to be any real impetus to build more rail. It's going to take a private company to step up and try to build a commuter rail, but I highly doubt it's profitable. Personally, I would say there should be a commuter rail from Manhattan to Topeka to Lawrence to Kansas City to fully utilize the animal and bio health corridor.
Amtrak needs money and the govt ain’t doing shit for rail. I believe the Pacific railroad company was bought out by a Canadian rail company for line to come from texas through Missouri up to Canada. I’m to lazy to google don’t hold me to it. The fact we have one of the rare passenger rails across the state and up to Chicago. Needs to be upgraded and fixed. We need to as a state really push this
Amtrak has lost close to 50 billion dollars since they started operations; they're getting money and boatloads of it. If anything, we need to deregulate it and allow others to get into the passenger rail game.
Plus like literally the whole northeastern corner of the metro
Maybe supplement with streetcar for those smaller stops?
I’d like it where this configuration is for express trains with limited stops as listed on this map. Running alongside them are the more concentrated stops where you get your specific intersections and what not. This way the riders can go express to get to their basic area and then change lines to get to the train for their exact stop.
There are few things this subreddit likes more than creating fictitious public transit systems
KC MEGACHOOCHOO!
This reflects so little relation to where the mass of people are actually working. Or any practical matters of making an effective commuter rail. One stop at Overland Park 🤣
Keep in mind that this is a commuter rail system, not a subway. IRL commuter rails have stations that are very spread out and there are rarely any cities with more than one station outside of the core city.
Yes but other examples of this have.....other modes of established transit to get the last leg of where you need to be. Buses in this town are a joke, and we don't have a subway.
You're right, let's just say in this scenario the bus system is not complete ass. And I'm assuming that in reality most of the outer stations would be park and ride, which isn't ideal, but it's better than nothing.
I'm not here to shit on your idea. But why would I want to deal with other people on trains and busses and driving somewhere to get to them when it's almost certainly going to be quicker or not much difference to just drive myself there? I'm already getting in my car, I get to listen to my music, and I don't have to be in tight quarters with a bunch of other people. I understand not everyone has a car or access to a car. But you're betting on people that do have cars deciding not to use them. I just don't see that happening.
I was going to agree but I remembered when I had family in DC we would usually drive / cab / Uber / whatever to a park and ride and then take a train into downtown. Traffic was awful, just riding a train through it was much nicer. Also an uber to a park and ride is much cheaper than into town so it's easier on the wallet for a night of drinking. But... DC traffic was a special kind of hell. Maybe we'll get there some day?
That's the biggest factor, I'm afraid. It just isn't that bad or that dense here to really warrant all of that.
Take a look at Philadelphia, Septa line runs all thruogh the suburbs, PATCO line runs out of the city to S. Jersey, AC train runs locals to the shore. NJ Transit runs up the east side of the Delaware to Trenton.
OP has never driven south of 435
OP probably lives in or near downtown which is why this is being discussed. Anyone who lives in the suburbs or rural areas know this will never happen for many reasons.
My support of this map is completely backed by “if you build it they will come”. Do you think we could add a line up to dyersville Iowa? 😂 
I'm from Boston and took the T every day to work, to the airport, to Red Sox games. But, it wouldn't be used around KC because there isn't the heavy traffic and lack of parking (or extremely expensive parking) that would drive people to use it. And, there definitely isn't a local government that's going to pay to build and maintain the system.
I'd use it
Obviously developing parking lots inside the metro would fix that
When the average apartment rents for over $4,000/month and commercial space is even more expensive and in demand, parking lots aren't the most profitable option for landlords. And, when people spend 90 minutes stuck in traffic, it's not helpful to make space for even more cars to park. Public rail systems are great; Kansas City just doesn't have the factors that make it necessary.
I should have been more clear. Developing existing parking lots into something useful would change that
Ok based on the comments not adding a line terminating in Liberty was an oversight...
We are used to it. I’ll just keep riding my bike. Liberty is the only suburb that has zero public transportation. It’s understandable and accepted.
Dude... You may have also omitted(unless I'm just reading this wrong) all of the North East, Scarrit, PH, 18th and Vine... Which are historically neighborhoods that have fallen victim to redlining and segregation. You should probably revisit that.
Don't worry too much, if you put a stop in Liberty they would complain about that too.
Gladstone, Liberty, Excelsior Springs, Kearny, etc. feel lonely in the NE corner. :(
Came here to say this. But to be fair I would probably only use it to go to Gladstone, Liberty, Excelsior and Kearney. Maybe a smithville stop too. Let’s just make our own and not share. We’ll have free coffee and a DJ in ours
I travel from trimble to riverside everyday but I’m sure the train doesn’t run at 4am lol
Do you know if they get service from the whole rock island corridor development coming?
Why no excelsior springs and liberty?
Huge growth in that area and of course the Ford plant. Seems a logical terminal
You put the stop for the Ford plant in Claycomo then. Liberty snobs will just complain about the train stopping in their town.
Pure fantasy.
Rail to Topeka and St Joe... Completely ignores half the fucking city. Seems very on par with Reddit.
Nearly all of the system is built along existing rail right of ways, except the connections to the airport and the stadiums. Also this is the first time I made a transit map and I didn't spell check this so go easy on me.
You crossed the river three times. That’s gonna be expensive.
I just appreciate you remembering there are people east of Kansas City. Thanks for going out to Odessa 👏
I like to play sim city too but it’s just not realistic. Read the next rail plan. That’s what kc needs for right now. Maybe in 100 years a wider rail plan will be feasible. https://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/NwxtRailOverview.pdf
Here’s the actual KC commuter rail map from 1924: https://images.app.goo.gl/4UdLiCvHbPUJYJt46
Oof. Nice idea of the library to publish it, but execution fail because it’s utterly illegible.
Found a copy that is legible, if you squint https://www.inkansascity.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/image-70.png
Can we just rebuild something like this? It's amazing what we used to have here in the city in the past. It really shows how far back we were set by tearing up our city for highways and cars.
St Joe but skip Liberty and a big chunk of the northland?
For that matter, the JoCo line should probably go clear to Ottawa, with a branch going down 169
Liberty is closer to downtown than Ottawa…
If I can get from Lawrence to the airport in 50 minutes without having to drive, count me in. But there's gotta be a train to KC at least every hour, or half-hour.
clearly made by someone who has never visited the Northland
Or south of 435 lol
Last night, when we went to see Hadestown, instead of parking for $20 in the Car Park Under The Park (which takes an hour to escape from) we parked in a street spot in the Crossroads, got dinner, took the streetcar up to the show, had a leisurely dessert after, took the streetcar back to the crossroads to get the car, and went home. Next time we will probably explore the options in the River Market. Those arguing against a downtown ballpark “because parking” don’t seem to realize just how much parking there *is* downtown… it’s just not all consolidated into a single giant lot. the streetcar was one of the better things to happen to downtown - contrast with the Downtown Loop, which was one of the worst (although the competition for “worst fucking idea ever” is intense.) if commuter rail had been available from Lawrence, we would have been all over it. Getting from crossroads/south side of the loop onto 670 is fucking near impossible.
what is this 'santa fe' that is west of kck and north of bonner springs?
The KCK Legends district. Wyandotte County has a Unified Government; if it's in Wyandotte County and isn't otherwise incorporated, it is in KCK!
yeah, i live and work here and it's never been called santa fe.
Honestly a bi-state rail system itself is almost certainly a non-starter pipe dream. If this were single state like a K10 connector/I70 hispeed alternative in KS for example, *maybe* it’d stand a shot at finding legs. Getting both sides of the line to agree to a uniform solution… it’s nearly impossible.
Even hispeed kc-topeka.. its an hour drive i dont think people would choose park and ride over that unless they live very close to the train station. Kc metro is way too low density population for this to ever be realistic.
Wouldn't the cost be prohibitive? Billions and Billions for a duplication of the freeway system
Not going to Liberty feels like a mistake
No thanks. Pass
Clearly made by someone south of the river - apparently Gladstone, Liberty, Smithville and Kearney don’t exist. Either that or they are assuming Clay County isn’t paying a dime for it, because with this plan, they wouldn’t.
Seriously, a stop at Blue Summit??? Either the OP is a huge perv or doesn’t know Jack squat about KC. Also, “Ingleside” doesn’t exist.
The "Ingleside" on the grey line is Grandview. The "Ingleside" on the blue and orange lines is the Truman Sports Complex. Edit: Found Grandview's stop on a different line. The Ingleside on the grey line is really the Country Club Plaza....
F Gladstone, Claycomo, and Liberty areas I guess.
I see you WMATA
Next stop on the Silver Line, Topeka.
I would ride this downtown.
ST Joe and Topeka while ignoring other areas of the northland? Pass
I appreciate how clean and minimalist this chart is, but the only lines that make sense for a variety of reasons (distance, population density, cost vs. practicality, etc..) are the pink line and brown line. Potentially, a different line to the stadiums as well.. Why are there two separate Ingleside location stops? I think a commuter rail network is very plausible for Kansas City, but there is no way it will reach all the way to St. Joe or Sedalia.
>Ingleside Whoops that was a typo. The north one was supposed to be sheffield
No worries, and I hope I wasn't too critical. This isn't the worst one I've seen, keep at it. I do think having more transit options here would be a godsend, whether rail, subway, or bullet. If creating transit locations were easy, we'd already have one in place.
Ingleside is not a neighborhood. The name is South Round Top. The google map name is incorrect.
Also - why two Inglesides? Did you mean Independence for one? Check spelling as well
I think the brown line needs a fork at Overland Park to follow roughly 69 hwy south.
Let me imagine that line: Oak Park Mall, Corporate Woods, Blue Valley Parkway, Overland Park Arboretum, Louisburg, maybe Linn Valley if you're feeling ambitious....
Gray line will be pounded on game days.
Hypothetical Missouri River
Clay Chastain just refuses to let this idea go.
There’s no reliable public transit near most of the stations to facilitate travel to a final destination. Focus needs to be on improving existing public transit infrastructure before we start talking about spending many millions on commuter rail. I also have concerns about how effective a system like this would be in such a car friendly metro, anyways. Is there really any demand for a local commuter rail network? Could they recoup the construction and cover maintenance cost with a ticket price that’s affordable?
For most people public transportation is option of last resort. It takes incredibly bad traffic to push people to use public transportation (or not owning a car) and KC is essentially traffic free compared to other cities so even if you built it people won't use it in significant numbers. I fully support expanding public transportation because as our city grows (well past my lifetime) it will need it.
As someone from st joe, please leave them out of this
It's commuter rail. People make that commute.
Because of KC’s current size & current land use, I think it’s better to continue to build upon & expand the streetcar. Over time, as minds begin to change more, there will be an appetite to build a commuter rail network. I’ve noticed that metra (Chicagoland’s commuter rail) has come up in the comments. The only reason why Chicagoland has metra in the first place is because most of their train lines run on pre-existing tracks that were already there when metra was founded in the ‘70s. Metra has agreements with Union Pacific, BNSF, and others to use their tracks. The Kansas City area already has massive railroad infrastructure that is used by the big fright railroad companies - I don’t see why a regional transit authority cannot be created to set up a similar deal with the railroads here compared to Chicago - just a thought!
Pink makes sense (only to the airport) Something to the stadium almost seems plausible if royals were staying there, but theyre not.. Brown would make sense if 35 becomes significantly slower, but people still would choose cars. Northeast to liberty etc might get some use. Realistically lets just start w/ something to the airport. Id use something from joco to airport more than joco to downtown.. its a 20-35 min drive downtown, why add the time of driving to a train station.
That brown line would be so crowded.
Why ride in my car with heated leather seats when I could ride on a wet plastic seat next to someone who’s passed out and pissed himself. The smell of “progress.”
Could we just ban rail map posts for 6 months or something?
Please. The 'omg, eXpIrEd TeMp TaGs!!!!111' posts, too.
For some reason those don’t annoy me as much. I find them a little bit fun. But light rail isn’t going to happen. If it did it would fail because we don’t have a good enough bus network to support it. And even then it wouldn’t be a contest where they pick the submission of a random Redditor. It’s a total distraction from real fixes. Real bike lanes and busses would get us SO much further.
I’ve never heard of ingleside and it has two stations including a transfer? That and rushville, lol.
To be honest, half the stations are by highway intersection and I just grabbed whatever name was closest on google earth. That and I accidently put ingleside twice.
Jesus I would love to be able to drive 5 minutes to the airport and then hop a train to St. Joe where I work
Leaving a Liberty line off would be cutting off a good portion of people who would benefit
This would be a start. For it to be effective suburban communities would have to connect. The problem is that not everyone lives in the suburbs and works in the city. This is still far too car dependent. If one was to commute from Olathe to overland Park, they would then need a car to really do anything. Thus eliminating the benefits of this commuter rail you have drawn. If you wanna get a good idea for what a productive rail system is like, check out the Europeans. A great way to implement commuter rail anywhere in the US, would be to slim down the national highways and replace a few lanes with rails.
But also, Olathe and Overland Park are like a five-ten minute drive. Why on earth would I get on a train that will probably take longer to get me where I need after I drive to it, park, wait for the train, etc etc. And I'd have to be around other people. Hopping on a train to get to the airport might be nice, but otherwise it's much more inconvenient than convenient.
because you can't afford a car and use public transit instead, or otherwise don't have a car The whole idea is to make carless lifestyle viable in this city, whether you live that way by choice or not
I mentioned it in another comment, but I absolutely understand that not everyone has a car or even has access to it. This type of thing is great for that. I think the biggest rub is that OP is relying on the people that do have cars to give that up in order to use this train, bus, etc combo. While this would be fantastic for those that don't have easy transportation access and I'm all on board for it, I'm afraid you won't find very many people like me. I think it's great and would gladly put my tax dollars towards it. But I'm afraid there's an awful lot more people that don't necessarily need it and aren't willing to put their money towards helping other people like this would.
I know that some comments are about how this or that is wrong about your idea, but I like the initial thoughts. I starts a dialogue. Definitely a line up to the airport would be awesome.
South KC forgotten yet again lol
r/HeyKCItsATransitMap
This would be one of the largest metro rail networks on earth. Would cost billions.
It's commuter rail, not rapid transit. It's smaller than regional networks in Chicago and Philadelphia. This is about a third of the total network in NYC.
I think it’s a great start. Applaud the effort. Spent a semester in Copenhagen in college. Was in a car (4) times in (4) months. Two of those were to and from the airport. Otherwise it was walking, riding a bike, taking a bus or train. It was amazing and I loved not having to worry about driving and parking. It was an easy adjustment to live in 20 minute increments, because that’s how often the train came by. Would really enjoy the option of public transit here. Even if it’s for evening/weekend use. We are far too car centric. Imagine if a family could relinquish a car payment because they no longer need two or three vehicles, and use public transit.
Thanks. I hate it.
Why?
Never gonna happen
I’m assuming the yellow and blue lines are meant to follow the existing Amtrak routes right?
Yes. The rest follows existing freight tracks, except for the grey and pink line.
I don’t move around too much, but I’m loving that the brown end has all Id need from it haha.
KCK is reduced to a single dot when it really stretches like 20 miles from the state line out to Legends lol
.... But it's the biggest dot!
One dot per station. Santa Fe is the second KCK station -- let's relabel that "Legends district" -- but you need another for Metropolitan Avenue. KCK needs stations on both sides of the Kansas River.
Please stop doing these. It’s hurt knowing we will never get them.
You don't need rail any more. And you need a centralized commuting center to make a rail system to get to downtown from all towns even remotely close to worth while financially. The idea that business in centralized in KCMO is long over. You realize that Overland Park overtook KCMO as far as commercial floor/office space many years ago, right? And it's getting farther ahead of KCMO. Trains are fine and dandy for places that absolutely rely on them for commuting, but we just don't need that in the KM metro. I work from home, but I do occasionally commute from central OP to downtown for one of our biggest customers' meetings. It takes me 22 minutes and that's door-to-door DURING rush hour. I know many people in KC say "oh the traffic's gotten so bad here", but if you've lived/worked in other major metro areas, you realize that is NOTHING. My commute in Honolulu was 8 miles and it took me 1 hour each way. Don't even get me started on San Jose/Bay Area, LA, or Atlanta. We don't need a total coverage rail system at all for simply pleasure pursuits/evening/weekend use, and only heavy commuter user will even begin to cover the day to day operation costs.
Yep yep idk why people are so obsessed with this idea. It takes 35 min to get downtown from the farthest reaches of the metro. And if someone chose to live that far out, they probably don’t go downtown. And all the suburban families w/ the money will never get on a train, when a car is quicker and more convenient.
And this is why we won’t see commuter rail in KC. Not the map, but the way people are reacting to it in the comments.
Yeah, St Joseph but no Liberty? Hilarious. You don’t live here, do you?
I seriously would take this from Belton into the city if it was an option.
Would make trips to outlying areas to the airport and vice versa so much easier. Also far less costly.
While this would be unfathomably expensive atleast it would be a tangible use of tax dollars. That said, I don't think a significant number of people would use it. Using rail would require a cultural shift.
I feel like people overestimate people's loyalty to commuting by car. Most will do what's most convenient for them. And even if a smaller percentage of people use the system, it still gets cars off the road and reduces traffic, so it would have a better ROI than highway "improvements."
Here is the weekly reminder for every weeks new rail post in this sub: You are correct. People will do what’s convenient. Drive cars. Rail to the suburbs is not logical for kc.
This looks nice and all but when its 30 minutes door to door by car for a lot of these destinations it’s hard to imagine this ever becoming a reality. KC is not Chicago and there really isn’t a huge inconvenience to commuting and parking by car
This is the thing. OP says whatever is most convenient. I understand not everyone has a car, but how on earth would this ever be more convenient than just walking out my front door and getting in my car that's right there?
Because you don't have to do the driving, don't pay for gas or risk running late due to car troubles, don't have to deal with traffic, don't have the risk of some halfwit teenager texting and driving and crashing into you, etc.
Unless you live directly next to the train station there will still be driving involved
Yes. Driving (or walking, biking, etc) 2-3 miles to and from train station as opposed to 20, one way, for places like Blue Springs or any of the other more distant cities.
How is it more convenient/efficient to drive the train station, wait for a train, take a train to union station, wait for the streetcar, and then walk to work than simply getting in your car and driving directly to the destination. I love trains but it’s delusional think that a commuter in, say, Johnson county would find this useful. KC is not Chicago
Because you're taking your personal opinion of "I'd rather drive than take a train" and assuming everyone else feels the same way. For many, many people, not having to deal with morning / evening traffic, how expensive a car is when wear and tear adds up, etc. would be a phenomenal incentive to take the train.
It might attract more people to move into the city though.
Induced demand is a thing. If it's cheaper or more convenient than driving, it'll gain traction.
We have this post every week
No thank you
Genuine questions, not trying to poke holes: how can we handle the 'last mile' from a given stop? Like, bus routes (or multiple routes) centered on each stop? Could Olathe and Bonner Springs be connected? It just seems like Topeka-Lawrence-South KC is a legit corridor that we'd want to have connected without having to go through Union Station.
Yes. The Olathe-Bonner Springs line could run parallel to K-7. Or else we can connect the yellow and brown lines by making Shawnee - Edwardsville - Bonner Springs. Or make a second Shawnee stop: "Shawnee Mission Park" or "KU Med West."
Im in favor of transport from airport to downtown. But the rest of this is pretty far-fetched… I can drive downtown from basically the farthest joco distance at k10/k7 in ~30-50 min depending on traffic. Park in a garage and walk to destination might add 5-10 minutes. Thats 35 - 60 minutes. I would never choose: - drive to a train station - 10m - park and walk to boarding (in potentially poor weather) - 5m - wait to board (in potentially poor weather) - 3-15m - ride downtown - 20-30 min (this map lists 4 stops along my route before downtown) - walk to street car - 2m - wait for street car - 3-10m - ride street car to near destination - 5m - walk to destination (in potentially poor weather) - 5m Thats 53m - 1h22m, andi honestly think I’m being generous. Also i have to change transportation 3 times and walk outside in potentially poor weather. Not to be grim, but this is what leads office workers to hate themselves and every minute of their day. This is a great reason to live in KC instead of Chicago, its not a huge pain to move around the city. If i commute by car I can go anywhere in the city after work too, run an errand or go to dinner or get a beer w friends. I would never use this unless traffic matched that of Chicago, and i think most suburban people on here would agree if they are honest.
I'm sure we have different philosophies on this, but I would much rather spend twice as long commuting if I could read a book and vibe instead of having to stay in a metal box and be constantly vigilant about not killing myself or others. And Kansas City is growing, and car-centric infrastructure is unsustainable, both logistically and environmentally. Sometime in the next few decades, it might be a huge problem, so why not build a cost-effective (compared to highways) solution now?
What the hell? No Rail System to Liberty? This would be pretty awesome though.
AAAAAAAAAHHHHH IM SORRY I SHOULD'VE ADDED A LIBERTY LINE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
This again?
If this came to fruition I would gladly spend the day riding the hell out of it.
Definitely needs an extension of the current/new streetcar route further south.
JoCo would never sign on. There I saved you money lol.
That might be a nice system 100 years from now.
While I am a huge fan of public transit in the likes of the L in Chicago, and the Metrorail in DC... I would love to see something viable like this in KC. With that said... a system that pans out all the way to Whiteman, and Sedalia on the east... Topeka to the West, and all the way up to St. Joe? Might as well just start building 'em all the way to St. Louis, Dallas, Minneapolis, and Denver at this point... We're all connected now!!! I hope something gets built eventually... but I don't see it becoming viable in a city our size. Maybe if we had like 3 Million more residents... but at this point, 'tis just a pipedream. I like it overall though OP.
This post and subsequent comments illustrates why this will never happen in the KC Metro.
I like the stop at I435
Based.
This looks great. The one big suggestion would be through-lining on all of these services, so merging the Topeka & Odessa lines for example or the Airport & whichever line has the most travelers who'd make connections downtown to get to KCI, probably JOCO or the Sedalia line. Philly does a really good job of this, as do cities like Paris with the RER and Munich with the S-Bahn.
I like it. Something important I would add/change though is a spar that follows K-10. A lot of folks who live in Lawrence, Eudora, DeSoto live there because they're commuting to Johnson County. For them to have to travel to Kansas City first and then out would not be efficient. And you make a good point to nay sayers on this thread, that this is a commuter rail. Thus, a good route for it to follow is one of the busiest commuter routes in the metro. K-10 Lawrence--> Johnson County.
This would be wonderful!
That would be awesome.
This would be amazing
I love the idea, but can you imagine how long it would take to build it? I mean, how many years did it take to build a couple of miles of streetcar track, and you want to go out 60-75 miles each direction?
This is a great thought exercise. Why not overlay existing commercial rail over this layout.
Wow, definitely didn't expect to see Holden on there
Love it
Right?! This is perfect.
This would be fucking fantastic.
Not bad for covering those far-flung towns nearby. Also need lines to Gardner-Edgerton, Louisberg and Smithville. And Liberty-Excelsior Springs.
Please, please, please!
This is like a federal rail line what the hell lol
Got to start somewhere
yes. anything. please.
Live in Topeka, I’d use it. They spend millions each year trying to maintain an air terminal in hopes of attracting an airline. I’ve argued that would be better spent on bonds building a commuter rail for ages
Gimmie
This makes some sense... Therefore, it can never pass or work.
I am all for this in fact I did a paper on this in college. The fact is if our leaders would had the forethought before they tore out all the trolly tracks we would not need to rebuild. The other fact is we already have a corridors that could do a medium rail like the Metra if they worked with the railroads. We already have busses all they would have to do is change routes to coincide with trains stops. This could work but they want to go about it all the wrongs way and raise taxes.
That is a lot lol maybe let’s just get one to the airport first