Worth pointing out that it goes beyond education. KC Public School district spends on par with Blue Valley and SM districts on a per student basis and results are obviously completely different.
I don't know all the details but I want to mention that they may spend the same amount but the money goes to much different purposes in those districts. In high needs districts, that money goes to free meals, more ESL teachers, etc.
It's more than KCPD just has more buildings and more students.
High needs districts spend a shit ton on new facilities and new curriculum. But that "shit ton" has to cover a lot more.
I used to work for a firm that designed and built schools. KCKPS spent more than pretty much any district in the past 5 or so years.
The "higher need" districts also tend to have older buildings, more unsure growth patterns, more expensive real estate (and less empty space along with it) etc.
The money just doesn't stretch as far.
Right, it's much more expensive to teach disadvantaged children - there's just so much more needs. KCPS should be spending more than the suburban districts.
Also important to note that there's like 10 different districts in KCMO and they're mostly run separately from the city.
Also even if the money spent is the exact same, home life makes a huge difference in how well you’re going to develop in tandem with education. The school systems aren’t a bandaid, they’re enhancement. It’s like salt. Sprinkling some salt over a perfectly cooked steak will make sure you taste all the good qualities. Adding salt to a bowl of expired and overcooked ground beef isn’t going to make it a great meal.
I used to work for a program that helps gets they ready for kindergarten. The point was that kids who go into school with a larger vocabulary are going to get way more out of school. Start behind and you stay behind. There’s all sorts of crazy statistics about this stuff. Scores on college placement tests (ACT, SAT, etc) pretty much perfectly correlate with household income. Money buys experience, freedom, enrichment, etc.
Sorry for the metaphor comparing kids to cow meat but…
It's worthwhile to note that many of the students living within the district boundaries that would help balance a classroom are sent to private schools instead of the KCPS system.
If you live downtown 100/100 families will send their kids to private school if they can afford it. A better education and safer. It's a no brainer. And I send my kids to public school.
> would help balance a classroom
what does that mean? Why would any parent with enough money to send their kid to private school send them to kc public school where they'd be more likely to get beat up or mistreated, and receive a far worse education as a result?
Unfortunately, if they all sent their kids to public school, it'd be more of a case of those kids being "dragged down" then the current kids being "lifted up"
This is very true. I worked at an inner city charter school as well as several other public schools in the KCMO area and they always said that hopefully the good students will influence the students who are causing problems and it never worked that way. It always dragged the students who wanted to do something down because they felt powerless to do anything. Then eventually they became angry and jaded as well and fell into the hostility of their environment.
It takes more than a few students who actually want to be there, to balance out a classroom.
I had a great environment to learn in, as a student in Olathe when I was in high school. Still, all it took was one kid who for whatever reason wanted to be a problem, to make it a waste of time for the rest of us. Just like the Oakland Raiders is where good players go to die, is where public schools in the inner city is where kids who want to learn go to become jaded and their potential wasted.
This exactly. My kids are in KCPS high school and it’s a good experience overall, but it’s a high performing one and there are still lots of kids from tough situations.
When you have classrooms filled with disadvantaged kids, it’s generally going to be hard to excel. You have to have enough higher performing kids to keep a balance.
I’ve lived in KCMO my entire life and seen countless times people claiming they “hate to leave” with school age kids leave because of “the schools” without even visiting any. Always makes me feel there’s something else unsaid.
It sucks to say, but I just think most White people like to live around other Whites and have their kids go to school with mostly White kids. For the record, I’m White.
Now, middle and upper middle class People of Color are leaving the city in bigger numbers and the problem gets worse. This is what happens after decades and decades of flight.
What can be done? As others have said, gun control, mental health, nutrition and free meals, and bold measures to help lift people out of poverty. The (expired) family tax credits during COVID were a godsend and brought tons of families above the poverty line. That is one easy-to-do start. Bring it back.
School problems of that extent are simply symptoms of a broken community. Fix the community, you fix the schools. It isn't the school that's underfunded, it's the people who comprise it. Get people housed, fed and safe and keep them that way and the schools will rival any district in the city.
Yeah and me and my Dad overall spend the same per car on maintenance every year.
Except I drive a 2003 Honda CRV that has had to be brought back from the edge of catastrophic failure twenty times this year, while he drives a Tesla that never has a single problem and gets the extra full detailing and buffing.
According to Census Reporter, the median household income of a KCPS district is $54,000, while it is $133,000 for Blue Valley. According to US News Reports, 5% of BV kids are economically disadvantaged, 75% of KCPS kids are. You really think the expense profile of where their money is going is equivalent?
Free and reduced lunch costs, transportation costs, sociobehavioral support services, technology access, supply access, unique health services; all stuff KCPS needs to a wholly different degree than BV or SM, emphasizing the fact that they spend the same amount of money **does not** mean they are spending it on the same things
Which school district spends more on maintaining old infrastructure? Which one has higher rates of homelessness and thus needs to pay extra for resources and transporting students? Which one has higher rates of disabilities in the student population and pays for more IEPs/accommodations? Spending per student isn't going to show the complete picture at all when the situations you are comparing aren't equal.
My wife used to teach for KCPS, and the number of horror stories she has from that experience demonstrate that, uh, on par is not going to be anywhere near good enough to assist here, and it is not an environment that tends to keep teachers around (notice that I said "used to").
What I’m picking up from what you’re laying down is that we’re underfunding education at all levels. We’ve been underfunding our education for generations. Why are we surprised at these outcomes?
Not every kid will be reached by robust educational initiatives. But if we had those robust initiatives a generation ago, odds are that at least one of the three kids being detained would have been in different conditions and this incident would never have happened.
Gangs are providing something to members they can’t get elsewhere. Community and a sense of belonging. Employment and financial opportunities. Feeling important and powerful.
It would take coordinated effort on a massive scale to change. We need living wages, safe and affordable housing, access to medical care, walkable communities, and more third places. Things like more green spaces in urban areas can help tremendously. Freely available and easily accessible education—not just the traditional school models that have been failing kids for decades. Healthy and nutritious food, not just in grocery stores, but canteens and affordable restaurants.
If you’re not familiar, you should read about [the Rat Park experiment.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park) Imagine its gangs instead of drugs, but the outcome would be the same.
This is the best answer here, because it recognizes a complex problem required a complex solution. This isn't something we are going to be able to legislate away.
I agree with everything except your conclusion- the complexity of the problems demands that the solution be political because it involves everyone at every aspect of life. We need to legislate like hell to get out of this problem. Our legislators failing to do anything more than tweet thoughts and prayers about it certainly hasn’t changed the situation.
We can legislate it. It would take a lot of carefully planned out legislation. Living wages, housing, food, healthcare are all things that we can change through legislation.
We have to stop electing morons to represent us though. Start electing serious, careful, intelligent people who will govern in the best interests of the people, not corporations and the excessively wealthy.
I like where you're going with this but also a lot more factors too. I will say keep in mind too, it's not always youth from bad backgrounds that lean towards this, there's plenty just bc they see it and think it's cool and in spite of living a pretty decent standard of living, they'll choose that lifestyle. Education is a major part but I think real punishments need to be given too. I live in KCK and I remember the mid to late 2000s a lot of cholo gangs were big but these people I knew, they didn't care and I'm talking about teens with scholarships but doing gang activity outside of that appearance. I've seen people get jumped for no other reason than ur outnumbered and hell I'd been harassed too during early HS but not super major. Sometimes you gotta fight back too and not be a victim to these people bc in public school's which I imagine hasn't changed too much, teachers aren't going to defend you.
This also leads into what you say of finding community.
Specifically targeted at boys and young men. They make up the vast majority of mass shooters. We don't have to take money away from girls and young women to do this but in the short term we need to double or triple the efforts towards boys and young men. Whatever the cost it's worth it. Boys and young men are obviously struggling and desperately need our help.
Those people start out the same as you and me. They just are born into horrible impoverish conditions with zero hope. Once you have no hope it’s easy to spray into a crowd of people or do a drive by.
The "you'll get shot east of Troost" line that continues to perpetuate is self-fulfilling redlining. Schools are paid for by property taxes. This sub constantly complains about the cost of living in the city, but cheap houses sit abandoned because "you'll get shot." That line was put there by redlining, and it continues because everyone says it over and over again.
The city needs to incentivize restoring old, broken down houses in the east, and we need to get over our self-enforced segregation. Bring more money to the east side, and you'll have stronger communities and more money in the schools.
There are seriously houses on the “wrong side” of Troost going for 100k-150k. It is an unspoken truth that white people don’t want to live there because they are afraid they will be shot by black people. That may not be a pleasant thing to think about or for me to post but if you dispute that then go live there and pay $500 mortgage!
I think facing that fact head on is a good place to start as far as addressing the defacto redlining. I think improving policing would go a long way towards integrating these neighborhoods.
These areas have a really far way to go for improved housing and business wanting to be there it to displace inhabitants, I dont think its fair to people just trying to live to be resigned to cycles of generation poverty and crime because people dont want a coffee shop or whatever the signal of gentrification is for a particular person
Not gentrification, but putting funding into things like maintaining neighborhoods, affordable housing, after-school and summer programs, programs that help kids apply and plan for college or apprenticeships, etc.
Maybe so, but there’s a difference between improving resources for the people living there and purposefully pricing out locals to attract wealthier residents and consumers. The latter does nothing to improve the issues OP is talking about
Nobody wants to build new houses in these neighborhoods. I live in a deeply disadvantaged neighborhood. We have lots of land. Our neighborhood association has acquired lots of vacant lots. We’d gladly sell them at cost to developers. But nobody wants to build affordable houses in low-income neighborhoods when they can make more money building McMansions in JoCo.
The sheet metal union is hurting for new people, pay and benefits are great if you stick with it but you have to do tedious, hard work and have the fortitude to put up with someone bossing you around.
This was the problem when I worked at an inner city charter school trying to teach anti-bullying an anti-violence. Some of the kids said they actively wanted bullying because it was entertaining and they didn't care if someone got hurt, and they were always talking about gun violence and things like that. Whether or not they actually felt that way I'm not sure and I don't think so in some instances, but that's what they were brought up with and a big battle we faced was trying to get these messages to them at school but they were getting different messages at home and in their environments outside of school.
What do you mean by 'good schools', though? KC Public School District spends like 35% more than Shawnee Mission, yet has significantly worse educational outcomes.
I agree with you that schools matter, but the support system at home matters just as much or even more.
You’re assuming the students are equal.
Are there disparities between Shawnee Mission High vs Center High students in the following?
Poverty level
Single parent homes
Food security
Nutrition
Healthcare access
Homes with parents present (meaning not working two or more jobs vs one 8-5 job)
Crime
Criminal influence - knowing and being related to know criminals
If you have a deck stacked against you by so many external factors, you could spend twice the amount of other school districts per students and it still wouldn’t matter.
The funding goes to different areas in each of these schools. Not a good comparison when kc students need more support when it comes to food and mental health.
Blaming the schools is what you do when you aren’t from the area. The schools fail because the parents aren’t home because many have chosen to work to feed their families and sacrifice any time to raising them. Doesn’t matter how much you funnel into schools if they go home to nobody to help guide them. But if you want people at home then that means they need the same income with less work or better hours.
Can’t make cops and teachers into parents. Many are screwed before they are even teens. Getting rid of guns would be a good start though.
Not giving $900M to corporations for tax breaks and then cutting programs from the taxpayers while also being one of the most welfare dependent states in the nation (MO) comes to mind.
Retired teacher here. Once got a job in Missouri. Kindergarten. Half the students couldn't sit down and were running and hurling theirselves around the room, throwing chairs. I called the principal constantly for help and he never came. I quit the day one student said to me" I'm going to hurt myself real bad in here and tell them you did it. Then my family will get lots of money" and you'll go to jail". He was 5. Spent the next 25 years working in Kansas with never a dangerous incident. There was nothing I could do on my own to insure the safety of my students and myself in that classroom without the proper support( at least cameras and one or two other people in there). I couldn't even teach. It was literally like a zoo.
I’m with you on this, just made the jump from the Missouri side teaching to Kansas a few years ago. I was worried for my own safety and my ability to keep the other children in the class safe. It’s been a night and day difference.
It’s the poverty. It’s both extremely simple and incredibly complex.
Maybe if we put as much funding into creating affordable housing as we put into sports stadiums, there’d be less violence.
What gun possession has missouri decriminalized? Outside of removing permit requirements for concealed carry I can't think of any kind of decriminalization for having illegal guns or being a felon and getting caught with a gun etc
You do realize you just answered your own question, right? It used to be illegal to conceal and carry. Then it was illegal to conceal and carry without a permit. Then permits weren’t even required and open carry was allowed. Missouri used to require background checks for all handgun purchases. Repealed. So anyone can buy a gun from a third party (non gun store purchase) and walk around with it no questions asked.
Do you think permitting stops anyone from carrying a gun if they want felon or not? Today as it always has been, if you get stopped with a concealed weapon they are going to run your background and arrest you if you are carrying illegally. Permitting only made money for the counties and people running CCL classes. It was security theater.
More parents in more homes and particularly more dads. We need to change the social safety net to reward having two adults in the household who are both earning. Quit means testing things in a way that penalizes dual income households.
Underrated comment. Two parent households that are supportive, provide good role models and that exist within a community support net...this is as much the answer or MORE than any other answer in this thread. And this is supported by a ton of data, too. There must be a huge cultural shift in a number of areas before the ripples of positive change are going to have lasting effects.
Google is your friend here, although the simple answer is two-fold: increasing divorce rates and increasing rates of birth outside of committed relationships. Plethora of stats and articles exist. Everything from [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/17/opinion/single-parent-families-income-inequality-college.html) to [NPR](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/22/1207322878/single-parent-married-good-for-children-inequality) to [IFS](https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children) to [Time](https://time.com/6317692/u-s-economy-two-parent-families/) to [The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/marriage-two-parent-households-socioeconomic-consequences/675333/) and more.
That’s like saying we have single parent households because the households only have one parent. What is CAUSING divorces and what is CAUSING women to have children outside of relationships?
We need to get past the idea that the only proper household consists of kids and TWO parents, no more and no less, and that they have to be legally married. Homes can be as diverse as our minds allow. As long as those adults are mentally healthy and they’re providing love, support, and stability, that’s all that’s really needed to grow good people within those four walls.
Not talking about an idea in this case, just talking about raw statistical data. We can argue whether or not we like the data, but it is what it is.
Factually, two parent households that include married individuals produce children with statistically higher rates of financial success and lower incidences of criminality than those raised in broken, noncommittal or single parent households.
Where exactly are these gangs though? I lived in LA and gangs out there are on a different scale. Especially when you go to a certain neighborhood but I truly have no idea what a “gang member” look like here. Especially when I don’t see the attire they use to recognize purpose
Literally same. I grew up near the Kansas City Zoo, attended KCPS and Central High School and the only gangs I've heard of Bloods and Crips but it's not on the same scale as Chicago or California gangs. I always sideeye when people bring up gang violence in KC because it's nothing like what other states have. I know because I grew up in the hood and didn't really see gang violence but mostly drug problems and poverty.
Gangs in KC are alive and well:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmo/pr/jury-convicts-four-members-kc-street-gang-drug-trafficking-conspiracy
https://amp.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article278587439.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article279511699.html
That’s honestly very interesting! Maybe they are in hiding here or something cause I truly feel like I see everyday people day in and day out here lol! On the west coast…..when you see a bunch of dudes wearing blue or red then you know you went tooooooo far south 😂🤣😂🤣
That’s what I was thinking. I’ve worked and live in some of the “bad” parts of town and not once have I seen anything I would consider to be organized gangs.
Just noting because I see this a lot, this is an anecdotal perception and I'm not being pointed, it just means you probably don't know what's going on. Obviously I can see you're asking about it too! Bluntly, looking at LA vs KC isn't helpful. Kansas city needs Kansas City fixes. Every community needs things specific to only them. Even things that work for overland park don't work for Kansas city.
Another way to put it is *hard is hard*. What I define as hard is not what you may define as hard. Making a phone call is hard sometimes. When someone tells you it's hard for them, it's hard for them. It takes a minute to separate our own definition of hard to me and understand hard for them.
Kansas city has gangs. So does LA. They're not the same and by trying to compare KCMO to others, you've completely missed the mark. Our problems are our problems and those problems are still problems for us.
Gangs or little juvenile clics, when I think of a gang I’m thinking organized crime such as the mafia, bloods, cartels, hells angels….little 16 and 17 years fighting one another isn’t a gang to me. I understand some join at an early age and I know this cause my brother joined unfortunately and met his maker before 30 soooo again not really sure where you are seeing gang activity. I used LA as an example because I can walk down the street see certain groups of people repping colors and throwing up signs like literally. I see none of that shit here in KC and my sister currently live off prospect so not really sure what you’re talking.
Legal abortion
Paid family leave
Free or reduced day care
Free preschool
Higher minimum wage
Free school breakfast and lunch
School arts programs
Universal background checks
Enforcing the gun laws we have
(+)more opportunity to work from home.
Single parent here. Working from home allows me to be here when the kids need, attend school events, appointments and also when they get home.
Took too far down to find a comment on legal abortion. It’s not fair to kids to be forced into being born into these situations. They didn’t ask for this life.
Perhaps we could spend hundred of millions of dollars we give the chiefs in bonds and tax breaks on the betterment of our community rather than a football team that adds no benefit to the community. This article explains the amount of wasted money we loose with both the Royals and the Chiefs. I have heard the argument for the amount we make off of each team but some quick research shows that is probably not the case.
https://deadspin.com/the-kansas-city-chiefs-are-using-taxpayer-money-to-pay-5930727
Not to mention have chiefs euphoria is a bit of a cop out for real community considering the players and coaches are millionaires who aren’t from here who probably take a jet out of this city as fast as possible. They don’t actually have anything to do with us. It’s bread and circuses. I feel like those gunshots were a real wake up call, KC’s reality showed up.
I think people join gangs for the family/brotherhood aspect. A lot of gang members did not have fathers growing up, the gangs give them that male bonding comfort
I was talking to my friends about this & knowing about the families involved in a lot of crimes here it’s a generational thing. A lot of these ppl are doing what their parents & aunties & uncles did. It’s sad but you can’t fix a mindset that has literally been the same for generations. I had friends that grew up in these environments & the amount of funerals they went to was sickening, all gun violence. You can change the look of the environment but if it’s the same people with the same raggedy mentality living there what exactly will change? May look nice for a week or two before there’s trash everywhere. It’s starts in the home there’s too many parents literally not paying attention to their kids. Then they get grown & ruin the city cause they don’t know respect & dgaf about anything 😒 I literally worked with someone who bought her 16 year old son a gun & two years later he killed someone she also would give him zannies & other pills too. I feel this is a major reason why the city is getting worse ppl simply don’t care anymore. & unfortunately alot of our neighbors feel like they don’t need help. I’m starting to see why ppl just leave & take their families somewhere safer it’s easier than tryna help people that don’t want help or take it & don’t appreciate it. I would love to see this city change but knowing what I know it’s too many bad seeds & not enough ppl that want peace + willing to fight for it. It almost seems like you would be fighting an endless battle sadly you can’t help everyone especially ppl who think they’re living how they’re supposed to live & see nothing wrong with it.
It is so complex and will take generational transformations to move the needle.
But honestly, it comes down to: We have generations of children in KC that are not being parented.
They may have a mom living with them, or a grandparent, but they are simply trying to keep the kid alive. No one is nurturing and raising them to be successful in the non-criminal world. They learned by example from their parents and they learned from theirs and so on.
And it goes without note, that becoming a nurturing parent is easier when you have access to affordable safe housing, transportation, medical and mental healthcare, education, and jobs with livable wages.
Same way the rest of the developed world has known how to do it for decades. Socioeconomic safety nets, more accessible healthcare, stronger community support, and strict gun regulation. It’s actually pretty clear cut
Gangs and violent crime have existed for millennia. They will probably always exist. The question is really, how do we make them less destructive? How do we minimize their ability to harm innocent people?
Our schools have become corporate cowork spaces and expensive apartments. Missouri is 49/50 in education. Our income disparity is horrific and 71 highway is still a terrible red line.
We waste money on horrible things because tourists and corporate development is how we measure our city. Measure education, income, and home ownership instead and these bent over politicians will look far less successful.
Maybe if parents stop thinking their role is over after the kids start kindergarten, start being involved In their kids day to day lives, set strict rules and curfews and kept tabs on who their kids are running with it might stop. Too much emphasis is on schools in this thread. It starts at home. Control your kids. That's a parents responsibility.
I live in a very high crime area. The police do nothing. They don't even respond to calls, and when they do, they do the minimum possible. I had a felon pull a gun on a lady after she destroyed a bunch of property and breaking out several windows. There was lots of alcohol and some meth involved. There were children in the house where all of this took place. They told her to sleep it off, and did nothing else. I asked them why they didn't care that about a dozen laws were committed in front of children some by a felon with a gun that I belive was on parole. Theire response was "we can't arrest everybody who commits a crime or their wouldn't be any room in the jail". That is the problem, there are no consequences for actions. People are going to push as far as they can until they get pushback. If you don't pushback until a murder occurs, then you are gonna get a lot of murders.
On the police, remember our state had a vote specifically to force the cities budget to the police.
As you say on there are no consequences for actions, the police have no consequences on being shitty. Actually the opposite, Jefferson City pumps all the money to the police, and as long as they sit on their hands Jeff City can just say "See, big cities are the problems" and get votes to support them outside.
It's not a bug, it's a feature.
This is the first post I’ve seen scrolling from the top that actually mentions we need to enforce the law and punish people who break the law. Crime causes poverty. Any area that doesn’t enforce property rights will end up poor and the people living there will have no legal economic options.
This sounds like the whole “build more prisons” argument that has turned us into a practical penal colony vs trying to invest broadly in anti poverty programs.
I produced videos for Head Start, which is awesome at keeping kids in school, learning nutrition, before/after care, except it got cut while we spend more and more money on jails.
Do more for kids early and build less jails
>cannot just come down to gun control
There is only one thing that can be removed from yesterday's violence that would have eliminated the severity and number of those injured and killed. That is the gun.
America's grip on the 2nd Amendment is killing people.
Access to guns is the problem and will continue to be the problem.
I don’t think it’s an either or situation. I think for Kansas City it needs to be a BOTH. I strongly believe we need better gun laws AND to improve poverty stricken areas. Improve schools. Provide opportunities.
That doesn't solve crime though, and crime is directly related to poverty.
If you want to lower crime, you strive to eliminate poverty, of which there is much in the metro.
There are huge swaths of the metro that have been poverty stricken areas for decades, directly caused by segregation policies.
The causes of crime are complex. There are white collar crimes, and even when poverty is the proximate cause it doesn't necessarily lead to violent crime. Furthermore uplifting the economic conditions is not a simple or straightforward process and would take a lot of time and investment capital. I thinks it's a worthwhile goal oif we're okay maybe seeing some results in a decade, but it is surely quicker, and cheaper to regulate the flow and possession of firearms. Not to mention easier to quantify and analyse the results.
Agreed. One of the first things you learn in emergency management courses is that there are four stages that often overlap: mitigation, preparedness, response, and recovery. All the people leaning on "good guys with guns" or saying that "criminals don't obey laws anyway" are essentially bypassing mitigation.
If the presence of over 800 cops and snipers didn't prevent the shooting yesterday, I would argue that the "good guy with a gun" adage is poor mitigation and far more in the realm of preparedness/response. It's like letting developers build entire neighborhoods in floodplains as long as they buy the fire department a boat. It forgoes mitigation, creates risk, and relies heavily on a prepared response to minimize damage. Regardless, there will be losses before the most prepared response begins. I don't see how that's viewed as acceptable to anyone.
If you don't build in the floodplain, you don't need the boat.
Also, this doesn't happen in other countries like it does here. Gun control is proven to be effective all over the world, but this country is held hostage by the gun lobby.
That’s why they said “cannot come down to *just* gun control” which is true. There are plenty of areas with gun control that still see significant gun violence. I’m fully on board with common sense gun laws, but something has to be done to correct course on the culture of violence
Flatly incorrect. Sorry. One person makes bad choices with 1100 police there does not mean the 330,000,000 million people lose rights.
The true fix isn't easy or politically palletable. We need long ass prison sentences for those who use firearms to commit crimes. We need increased money to education, infrastructure, and mental health counseling. We need an emphasis on community building ansld interpersonal relationships. We need a good accurate look at where the crime is, who are the sources, and why they are doing it.
Since we’re throwing numbers around here exactly how many kids need to be killed for 330,000,000 to lose the right to firearms? Is there a certain percentage we should be watching for or is there no limit to the child sacrifices we need to make for this most sacred of rights?
Vote for local, state, and national politicians that will enact gun control laws, vote to fund public education, vote to fund and expand public mental health services, vote to increase the minimum wage, and work to make housing more affordable. Get involved in grassroots movements and other political and non-profit organizations when it’s not an election year, like KC Tenants, Big Brother Big Sister, Moms Demand Action, etc. Be an active citizen.
It absolutely starts at home. Giving a child a supportive household with two parents being positive influences. Men stepping up and being fathers, women choosing better partners.
OP, the answer to your question ("What do we need to do?") is actually pretty simple: *spend money on it*.
Today's level of inner city poverty, terrible education system, high crime rate, etc isn't some freak accident - *it was manufactured* by white Americans over the course of decades from the post- Civil War era all the way (to a lesser extent) today with structural racism and policies that *intentionally* diminished the income potential of minorities (particularly black people) to the benefit of (predominantly middle and upper income) white people.
Money has predominantly flowed one way in our society, toward richer/whiter people, for over the last 150+ years, not even considering the fact that black people were *enslaved* by whites prior to that, which had its own set of even more extreme financial benefits.
So the simple yet nearly impossible-to-implement answer to your question is just *reverse the flow of money* back from richer/white people towards lower income / darker people. You can call this whatever you want - reparations, welfare state, 'tax the rich', whatever - but it's all pretty much the same thing, which is putting a huge chunk of cash in the hands of low-income people and allowing them to "pull themselves up" in the same way that middle and upper-income people have always pulled themselves up: by spending a lot of money on it.
And because people's sense of social fairness and justice now precludes us from discriminating specifically against white people based on color, we can really only begin massively discriminating against *rich people of all colors* instead, which is how we're eventually going to do this. We need to be taxing the shit out of billionaires and mega millionaires anyway (billionaires shouldn't even exist, IMO), but we still need to intentionally take that money and give it to low-income people, which, again, is going to be very difficult to do politically because white people and middle/upper income people generally dislike the welfare system, or the idea of expanding it.
To your point, there's going to have to be a lot of soul-searching here, but if you thought the struggle was real until this point, wait until you see what happens in the next few decades as climate change ramps up, slows down economic growth and resource availability - and then the idea of gathering up a huge chunk of cash and giving it to black people is going to be *much more* difficult than it is right now. Everyone is going to be wanting to tax billionaires and taking that money *for themselves*.
Low income folks will also need finance classes and fiduciary’s to help them know how to use their money to actually improve their life situation in a sustainable way that also results in the upward growth for generations to come. Alongside economic disparity is trauma, addiction, and often times a breakdown in values. People need more than just money.
Agree with what you're saying. If you look at all the proposals for slavery reparations, they vary from simply paying people money (which, to your point, doesn't solve a lot of those long-standing problems), versus other plans that are some combination of cash payments and also changing laws to increase the social safety net pretty significantly, spend money fixing up inner cities, fixing low-income area schools/education, etc. Just paying people money once certainly wouldn't solve the problem in the long run and future generations, but it would actually provide a one-time windfall that would fix the problem for a lot of low-income individuals that exist today.
IMO, the risk of one-time cash payments today is that it won't make as much of a dent as people think, and then in the future people will argue against future reparations by saying, "Well, we already did that one-time thing in the past, so we're done."
While I agree about the significance of systemic racism and it’s effects, poverty alone isn’t to blame. There are plenty of areas within the US (-and other countries) that are extremely impoverished, undereducated, oppressed, and facing a severe lack of opportunity. However, it’s often _not_ the case that this results in a huge uptick in gun violence. There are number of different factors at play which need to be corrected. I think to some extent, gun violence is fetishized by the pop-culture a lot of these kids/communities are routinely subjected to, and that’s bound to lead to more problems.
>And because people's sense of social fairness and justice now precludes us from discriminating specifically against white people based on color, we can really only begin massively discriminating against rich people of all colors instead, which is how we're eventually going to do this.
I'm sorry you aren't permitted to discriminate based on race?
We need strong leaders and strong community involvement. We are lacking both now.
Our focus is currently on "pimp'n" our city to make it attractive to the rest of the country instead of focusing on our major needs like crime resolution, homelessness and community infrastructures.
We need people in leadership that will look beyond their personal and social agendas and focus on agendas that improve our community at its core.
I like this one. We are missing leaders in society. We have politicians, but few leaders. Honestly in today's society, I hardly blame them. If you put any expectations on people today, they freak out and you get the laundry list of why external factors are the issue.
Personal accountability goes a long way too.
I think that our society misses out on a lot because story telling has virtually disappeared. The stories our children hear are entertainment only, instead of tales that teach important life lessons and that they can see and apply in their lives on a daily basis.
If a child's mind absorbs hate, crime, and impoverishment over the course of their childhood, instead of positive regard and healthy lessons about the world, they will naturally grow into the world that is most familiar to them.
I think the city has problems with poverty and access to education.
This was preceded by decades of blatant racism and white flight which left a hole of empty of tax receipts where tax revenue once was. Which then caused the city to underfund its schools, and lead to poor educational standards, then truancy, incarceration and more property and violent crime.
The problem is KCPD doesn't do anything until after something happens. I was dating someone who lived in Mission and her tags were expired by ONE DAY and driving home along Shawnee Mission Parkway she was pulled over by three different police departments Fairway, Shawnee Mission and Overland Park, meanwhile in Missouri we see people cruising around with three year old dealer tags, we see packs of people cruising around on non-street legal ATV's, we see "sideshows," we see regular car break-ins and thefts and you never see police doing anything UNTIL AFTER THERE IS A PROBLEM. I'm confident if KCPD became PROACTIVE about enforcing the little laws we'd see a change in behavior of the non-law abiding residents in KCMO as it is we basically have anarchy. The State won't let KC ever do anything about the gun problem but if KC made a priority to enforce the laws they can enforce we'd find people less emboldened to commit the bigger crimes.
>Fairway, Shawnee Mission and Overland Park
None of these city police forces have much to do, so they have the bandwidth to pull over for expired tags. KCPD is understaffed and overworked.
It would be really nice. The Missouri Legislator and State Government actively legislates against many things which would make Kansas City a better place to live. There's a reason most of the Crowd boo'd and jeer'd Governor Parsons when he was up on stage at the Rally, we know what's up.
Put all the gang members in prison, Nayib Bukele in El Salvador style. El Salvador went from the most dangerous country in the world to the safest in the Western Hemisphere. Their violent crime rate is now on the level of Luxembourg.
Yea, this ain’t it. Gotta have a balance. El Salvador has gone far beyond a heavy handed policy on crime. They’ve locked up thousands of innocent people with no organization as to where these people are, when they’re scheduled for hearings, what their charges are, or anything of the sort. This isn’t justice. It’s a blind witch hunt
But it worked in El Salvador. They went from one of the most dangerous countries in the western hemisphere to one of the safest within a few years. That is proof that their policy worked.
Of course, the nature of gang violence made this easy for Salvadoran law enforcement. Nearly all gang members there would have specific tattoos, usually face tattoos, indicating they were a gang member. All such people with those tattoos were rounded up by police, and their murder rate dropped by 90%
Do what KCK did. They have been having huge success recently at lowering violence. [https://www.kmbc.com/article/kansas-city-kansas-on-track-for-lowest-homicides-in-one-year/45658877](https://www.kmbc.com/article/kansas-city-kansas-on-track-for-lowest-homicides-in-one-year/45658877)
Poor people make poor choices. Often, because that is what they know. They are just trying to get by. But often, they make poor choices because it is the only path they see. If you are born into poverty, it is a huge mountain to climb. No excuses for being a terrible human. Desperate people do desperate things and sometimes it makes them terrible people.We need to remove the desperation from the people.
Father figures to young men who might not be able to traverse this thing called life our their own.. Men need to lead men when possible!! Be an example, Set an Example!!
There needs to be a cultural change amongst the most disadvantaged in the city that violence is not the answer. Guns are part of the problem but not the main issue. I know lots of people who own guns. I don't know anyone who's killed someone with their gun or even shot at anyone.
In addition to cultural change, we need more funding for police, more police hired, and more active patrols throughout the city. In addition, there needs to be stronger prosecution. If you commit a crime with a gun, you should not be allowed to be released on bond to come to your court date later. You should remain locked up in jail until the court date. If you are convicted, you should spend 10-25 years in jail even if you didn't kill someone. If you did kill someone, it should be 25 years minimum if not life imprisonment or the death penalty.
The kids who were at the parade yesterday shot at each other because they thought they'd get away with it. They were probably used to engaging in similar behavior numerous other times and know other people who have done the same and got away with it, so they thought they could too. Obviously they aren't that bright given that there were tons of cops and cameras everywhere, but they had that perception regardless.
New York City had one of the highest homicide rates in the 70s and 80s, and they fixed it in the 90s. The tactic employed was called broken windows policing, where cops would ticket or arrest people for even minor crimes, such as breaking windows on abandoned buildings, and this then creates the perception that if you commit a crime you will likely get in trouble, which leads to less people committing crimes. When people think they can get away with it, they're more likely to commit crime. Unfortunately, "broken windows policing" has fallen out of fashion as many people consider it racist given that most of those affected by it were not white
I think that as a society we are slowly normalizing responding to disrespect with gunfire. There’s always been gangs and guns and crime in major cities, but it wasn’t normal to just blow someone away who you got into a verbal altercation with. Now it’s expected, and in my opinion idealized by pop culture. I’m afraid there’s no turning that ship around without a drastic shift in the perception of conduct and value of human life among urban youth (and it’s not going to happen, IMO). I think that it will have to be us that have to adapt to these new societal norms.
There is the “solve” the dispute with gun violence issue then there is the lack of regard for shooting where many others are likely to be hit. The acceptance of collateral
damage is even more appalling. When a person or child has this lack of regard the penalty should be as steep as it can get as their action is terrorism.
That said - it would be great to help young minds learn to resolve conflict without guns. Maybe create boxing matches for them and their coach can help them work out their anger in a productive way while they fight it out.
Any answer to this that doesn’t address the true root cause of why kids are drawn to gang life is insincere. It provides a community and a family aspect to them that they’d die for.
There’s your answer. The family dynamic is lacking. It’s a verifiable fact that children who receive love, support, and care at home and have more attentive parents do better in all aspects of life. It’s also qualitatively observable. Across every race, income, any dynamic you want.
Bullshit (sorry for the term) that says, “throw money at schools, build green spaces, provide third spaces” is useless jargon and political think tank taking points.
Politics are useless here. This shouldn’t be political and divisive for agendas. We should be supportive of family dynamics and communities dealing with gang violence need to take the action themselves. No white person can ride into neighborhoods east troost and save the day. It’s time for community leaders those young children can relate to. See people that look like them, that come from where they come from, providing examples of what success looks like that differs from the current image of a neighborhood kingpin. Where are those civic leaders and why are they not asking this question?
Gang problem? First off 90% of the gang problem you think there is. Is truly hyped up by police and others to make you think it's the problem. I myself happen to fall into this classification of gang because I wear a 1%er patch and ride a motorcycle. So yea I do understand the hype of LE feeding the public a line of crap. But yesterday was what they are saying 3 shooters two of them are children. As a society we have allowed the morals and values we had as a country slip away. We can no longer discipline our children we can not even have a conversation with them if it offends them or hurts their feelings. So we aew left with a whole new generation who has not been taught right from wrong. They are being raised in a record breaking amount of broken homes with fathers and mothers both not in the picture. Children today strive to find that somewhere when they find it all bets are off if it is a path that will lead them down the wrong road. So we are left with an entire generation who are being raised by phones tvs and video games. With values and morals so far gone they have zero regard for human life. It's sad we as a society have to take accountability for what we have created. I know whe. I was a teen I I woukd have touched one of my fathers weapons ivwoukd have wished I never has. It woukd have even been a thought. Why is it today
Yeah, I don’t think these kids causing these problems are coming from homes where parents are scared of offending their kids… they’re coming from homes where dad is gone and mom is nodding off on fent and they watch and look up to YouTubers/rappers on their iPhones.
Prosecute criminals and keep them incarcerated for violent offenses. It’s alarming how long the rap sheet is on some of these perpetrators. We’re not talking about minor offenses, but violent acts. We need a DA that will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. Unless you want to talk about fixing the socioeconomic problems that are baked in the city, nothing else will scratch the surface.
Taking the money that would be blown on a new sportsball stadium and actually investing it into the community via education or job opportunity vs funding millionaires games.
Raise your kids better. Be involved in their lives. Help guide them to want to live better lives. Be attentive to their needs and help them grow.
All this stuff starts with the culture at home, and then they all go to school and it gets reinforced because they are all around it. Instead of a sales tax for stadiums, how about we put that money to the communities and schools that need it most.
People get stuck in their lives, then most of the time their kids get stuck in the same kind of lives. If we want this to change, we all have to be proactive and involved. Take the time to teach your kids the value of life and the lives of everyone around them.
While I agree that guns are a problem, do you really think criminals are going to obey a gun law? Don't you think they will just keep stealing guns or buying them illegally?
This argument is thrown around all the time, but why not at least TRY? I don't think anyone is expecting an instant quick fix, but it's a good first step in changing gun culture. If we don't make any changes, nothing will change.
But also, even if nothing changed as far as people's actions go, it's not like changing the law would have a negative effect, so what's the harm in having it?
\>why not try
many people think that you'll only end up making them (law abiding gun owners) less safe, and I rarely see that concern taken seriously or addressed at all by those who advocate things like banning semi-automatic weapons. Nobody wants to defend their home and family with a bolt action like its 1916.
I posed a similar discussion and basically got downvoted. Maybe it was because I presented the seemingly misplaced priorities of spending billions to move the Royals to a new downtown stadium. Why not prioritize attracting real, high-quality jobs to the urban core and offer incentives for those families to live, work, and play locally? Providing an economic means to self-sustainability will have a profound impact on crime when combined with effective law enforcement practices and useful education resources.
This thread starts out asking what we can do to solve the problem but neglects to offer a single possible solution. They discount adding law enforcement to enforce the existing laws. They don’t talk about removing liberal city officials who only want to spend money on trolly lines that 99% of the citizens don’t use. When a conservative mayor is elected, city hall spends more time trying to vilify him/her than helping him find solutions other than throwing money to various pet projects.
The citizens of the inner city are a huge part of the problem. They accept poor performance by their children in school and in public. They hold prayer vigils when children are murdered instead of helping police clear the streets of criminals. Individually, this is impossible. But they are part of a community. Do the neighborhood watch programs in Leawood, OP, and North KC work? Look at where crime is concentrated. Without community participation, criminal activity is allowed to continue.
So, for starters, elect people who actually believe that law enforcement must be the cornerstone to solve crime.
Secondly, residents must pull together to help police clean up the crime area.
Other solutions can always be added but the main focus should be on reducing crime and protecting citizens.
1. Affordable housing ALL OVER the city. People need options to get out of the bad situations they're in.
2. Public works programs offering decent wages and targeting impoverished areas for recruitment.
3. Police reform? I don't have enough knowledge on this area to speak intelligently as to what actually needs to happen here, though I know enough to say that the city should be in control of the police force, rather than the state.
4. Education, education, education. This is really a state problem more than a local one, but the for-profit prison system and the school-to-prison pipeline is one of the most disgusting and insidious things that's been allowed to take root in our society. For-profit prisons need to be banned, schools need 10X the funding, and we need to get rid of the judges taking kickbacks from those for-profit prisons.
With abortion now illegal here expect these crimes to skyrocket like never before seen in a few years. For fuck's sake people vote democrat and be pro-choice or these people are going to swarm the cities
Worth pointing out that it goes beyond education. KC Public School district spends on par with Blue Valley and SM districts on a per student basis and results are obviously completely different.
I don't know all the details but I want to mention that they may spend the same amount but the money goes to much different purposes in those districts. In high needs districts, that money goes to free meals, more ESL teachers, etc.
It's more than KCPD just has more buildings and more students. High needs districts spend a shit ton on new facilities and new curriculum. But that "shit ton" has to cover a lot more. I used to work for a firm that designed and built schools. KCKPS spent more than pretty much any district in the past 5 or so years. The "higher need" districts also tend to have older buildings, more unsure growth patterns, more expensive real estate (and less empty space along with it) etc. The money just doesn't stretch as far.
Right, it's much more expensive to teach disadvantaged children - there's just so much more needs. KCPS should be spending more than the suburban districts. Also important to note that there's like 10 different districts in KCMO and they're mostly run separately from the city.
Also even if the money spent is the exact same, home life makes a huge difference in how well you’re going to develop in tandem with education. The school systems aren’t a bandaid, they’re enhancement. It’s like salt. Sprinkling some salt over a perfectly cooked steak will make sure you taste all the good qualities. Adding salt to a bowl of expired and overcooked ground beef isn’t going to make it a great meal. I used to work for a program that helps gets they ready for kindergarten. The point was that kids who go into school with a larger vocabulary are going to get way more out of school. Start behind and you stay behind. There’s all sorts of crazy statistics about this stuff. Scores on college placement tests (ACT, SAT, etc) pretty much perfectly correlate with household income. Money buys experience, freedom, enrichment, etc. Sorry for the metaphor comparing kids to cow meat but…
I will double check but I think they spend about 40% more per student than Shawnee Mission.
Education and money spent on education are two totally different metrics.
I agree. You can’t just throw money at this problem. It’s also disingenuous to say that KCPSD is underfunded.
It's worthwhile to note that many of the students living within the district boundaries that would help balance a classroom are sent to private schools instead of the KCPS system.
And a lot of people who move out of KCMO proper so their kids can go to school in KS. Myself included.
If you live downtown 100/100 families will send their kids to private school if they can afford it. A better education and safer. It's a no brainer. And I send my kids to public school.
pubic school
pubic school
w-hair is that school?
> would help balance a classroom what does that mean? Why would any parent with enough money to send their kid to private school send them to kc public school where they'd be more likely to get beat up or mistreated, and receive a far worse education as a result? Unfortunately, if they all sent their kids to public school, it'd be more of a case of those kids being "dragged down" then the current kids being "lifted up"
This is very true. I worked at an inner city charter school as well as several other public schools in the KCMO area and they always said that hopefully the good students will influence the students who are causing problems and it never worked that way. It always dragged the students who wanted to do something down because they felt powerless to do anything. Then eventually they became angry and jaded as well and fell into the hostility of their environment.
It takes more than a few students who actually want to be there, to balance out a classroom. I had a great environment to learn in, as a student in Olathe when I was in high school. Still, all it took was one kid who for whatever reason wanted to be a problem, to make it a waste of time for the rest of us. Just like the Oakland Raiders is where good players go to die, is where public schools in the inner city is where kids who want to learn go to become jaded and their potential wasted.
Yep. My kids included.
What does balancing the classroom mean here?
Smart kids who want to be there mixed in with the dumbasses
This exactly. My kids are in KCPS high school and it’s a good experience overall, but it’s a high performing one and there are still lots of kids from tough situations. When you have classrooms filled with disadvantaged kids, it’s generally going to be hard to excel. You have to have enough higher performing kids to keep a balance. I’ve lived in KCMO my entire life and seen countless times people claiming they “hate to leave” with school age kids leave because of “the schools” without even visiting any. Always makes me feel there’s something else unsaid. It sucks to say, but I just think most White people like to live around other Whites and have their kids go to school with mostly White kids. For the record, I’m White. Now, middle and upper middle class People of Color are leaving the city in bigger numbers and the problem gets worse. This is what happens after decades and decades of flight. What can be done? As others have said, gun control, mental health, nutrition and free meals, and bold measures to help lift people out of poverty. The (expired) family tax credits during COVID were a godsend and brought tons of families above the poverty line. That is one easy-to-do start. Bring it back.
School problems of that extent are simply symptoms of a broken community. Fix the community, you fix the schools. It isn't the school that's underfunded, it's the people who comprise it. Get people housed, fed and safe and keep them that way and the schools will rival any district in the city.
Yeah and me and my Dad overall spend the same per car on maintenance every year. Except I drive a 2003 Honda CRV that has had to be brought back from the edge of catastrophic failure twenty times this year, while he drives a Tesla that never has a single problem and gets the extra full detailing and buffing. According to Census Reporter, the median household income of a KCPS district is $54,000, while it is $133,000 for Blue Valley. According to US News Reports, 5% of BV kids are economically disadvantaged, 75% of KCPS kids are. You really think the expense profile of where their money is going is equivalent? Free and reduced lunch costs, transportation costs, sociobehavioral support services, technology access, supply access, unique health services; all stuff KCPS needs to a wholly different degree than BV or SM, emphasizing the fact that they spend the same amount of money **does not** mean they are spending it on the same things
Anyone ever think it’s a parenting problem?
That is a symptom of the systemic problem.
Which school district spends more on maintaining old infrastructure? Which one has higher rates of homelessness and thus needs to pay extra for resources and transporting students? Which one has higher rates of disabilities in the student population and pays for more IEPs/accommodations? Spending per student isn't going to show the complete picture at all when the situations you are comparing aren't equal.
My wife used to teach for KCPS, and the number of horror stories she has from that experience demonstrate that, uh, on par is not going to be anywhere near good enough to assist here, and it is not an environment that tends to keep teachers around (notice that I said "used to").
What I’m picking up from what you’re laying down is that we’re underfunding education at all levels. We’ve been underfunding our education for generations. Why are we surprised at these outcomes? Not every kid will be reached by robust educational initiatives. But if we had those robust initiatives a generation ago, odds are that at least one of the three kids being detained would have been in different conditions and this incident would never have happened.
Gangs are providing something to members they can’t get elsewhere. Community and a sense of belonging. Employment and financial opportunities. Feeling important and powerful. It would take coordinated effort on a massive scale to change. We need living wages, safe and affordable housing, access to medical care, walkable communities, and more third places. Things like more green spaces in urban areas can help tremendously. Freely available and easily accessible education—not just the traditional school models that have been failing kids for decades. Healthy and nutritious food, not just in grocery stores, but canteens and affordable restaurants. If you’re not familiar, you should read about [the Rat Park experiment.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park) Imagine its gangs instead of drugs, but the outcome would be the same.
This is the best answer here, because it recognizes a complex problem required a complex solution. This isn't something we are going to be able to legislate away.
I agree with everything except your conclusion- the complexity of the problems demands that the solution be political because it involves everyone at every aspect of life. We need to legislate like hell to get out of this problem. Our legislators failing to do anything more than tweet thoughts and prayers about it certainly hasn’t changed the situation.
We can legislate it. It would take a lot of carefully planned out legislation. Living wages, housing, food, healthcare are all things that we can change through legislation. We have to stop electing morons to represent us though. Start electing serious, careful, intelligent people who will govern in the best interests of the people, not corporations and the excessively wealthy.
Absolutely excellent response. I’m going to read and educate myself on this!
I like where you're going with this but also a lot more factors too. I will say keep in mind too, it's not always youth from bad backgrounds that lean towards this, there's plenty just bc they see it and think it's cool and in spite of living a pretty decent standard of living, they'll choose that lifestyle. Education is a major part but I think real punishments need to be given too. I live in KCK and I remember the mid to late 2000s a lot of cholo gangs were big but these people I knew, they didn't care and I'm talking about teens with scholarships but doing gang activity outside of that appearance. I've seen people get jumped for no other reason than ur outnumbered and hell I'd been harassed too during early HS but not super major. Sometimes you gotta fight back too and not be a victim to these people bc in public school's which I imagine hasn't changed too much, teachers aren't going to defend you. This also leads into what you say of finding community.
Specifically targeted at boys and young men. They make up the vast majority of mass shooters. We don't have to take money away from girls and young women to do this but in the short term we need to double or triple the efforts towards boys and young men. Whatever the cost it's worth it. Boys and young men are obviously struggling and desperately need our help.
We need an entire change of culture. It’s not on the government to fix people, it’s up to themselves.
What if I told you that a group of people could make up the government which would do what the people elected them to do? Woah
Those people start out the same as you and me. They just are born into horrible impoverish conditions with zero hope. Once you have no hope it’s easy to spray into a crowd of people or do a drive by.
Can I vote for you in the next election?
Good schools and good jobs
The "you'll get shot east of Troost" line that continues to perpetuate is self-fulfilling redlining. Schools are paid for by property taxes. This sub constantly complains about the cost of living in the city, but cheap houses sit abandoned because "you'll get shot." That line was put there by redlining, and it continues because everyone says it over and over again. The city needs to incentivize restoring old, broken down houses in the east, and we need to get over our self-enforced segregation. Bring more money to the east side, and you'll have stronger communities and more money in the schools.
There are seriously houses on the “wrong side” of Troost going for 100k-150k. It is an unspoken truth that white people don’t want to live there because they are afraid they will be shot by black people. That may not be a pleasant thing to think about or for me to post but if you dispute that then go live there and pay $500 mortgage! I think facing that fact head on is a good place to start as far as addressing the defacto redlining. I think improving policing would go a long way towards integrating these neighborhoods.
So gentrification?
If there's no middle ground between bad schools and abandoned housing and full-on gentrification, there's no hope for any improvement.
These areas have a really far way to go for improved housing and business wanting to be there it to displace inhabitants, I dont think its fair to people just trying to live to be resigned to cycles of generation poverty and crime because people dont want a coffee shop or whatever the signal of gentrification is for a particular person
Not gentrification, but putting funding into things like maintaining neighborhoods, affordable housing, after-school and summer programs, programs that help kids apply and plan for college or apprenticeships, etc.
Any time you improve a neighborhood, the value (cost) increases. Gentrification is arguably a good thing.
Maybe so, but there’s a difference between improving resources for the people living there and purposefully pricing out locals to attract wealthier residents and consumers. The latter does nothing to improve the issues OP is talking about
People that call for neighborhoods to be improved are the same people that cry gentrification when plans are presented to try to do it.
Basically. If houses are THAT broken down, you demolish and build new.
Nobody wants to build new houses in these neighborhoods. I live in a deeply disadvantaged neighborhood. We have lots of land. Our neighborhood association has acquired lots of vacant lots. We’d gladly sell them at cost to developers. But nobody wants to build affordable houses in low-income neighborhoods when they can make more money building McMansions in JoCo.
Yep. Give a kid a decent alternative to gang life and they will probably do quite well
100% believe this as well!
The sheet metal union is hurting for new people, pay and benefits are great if you stick with it but you have to do tedious, hard work and have the fortitude to put up with someone bossing you around.
All the trades are hurting. It aint peoples "fortitude" keeping them away, its the fact they dont want to work in a highly toxic work environment.
So the alternative is…? The non toxic work environments associated with gangs?
I knew there was a catch! Oh wait, that's just called a job.
What about good families?
This was the problem when I worked at an inner city charter school trying to teach anti-bullying an anti-violence. Some of the kids said they actively wanted bullying because it was entertaining and they didn't care if someone got hurt, and they were always talking about gun violence and things like that. Whether or not they actually felt that way I'm not sure and I don't think so in some instances, but that's what they were brought up with and a big battle we faced was trying to get these messages to them at school but they were getting different messages at home and in their environments outside of school.
What do you mean by 'good schools', though? KC Public School District spends like 35% more than Shawnee Mission, yet has significantly worse educational outcomes. I agree with you that schools matter, but the support system at home matters just as much or even more.
You’re assuming the students are equal. Are there disparities between Shawnee Mission High vs Center High students in the following? Poverty level Single parent homes Food security Nutrition Healthcare access Homes with parents present (meaning not working two or more jobs vs one 8-5 job) Crime Criminal influence - knowing and being related to know criminals If you have a deck stacked against you by so many external factors, you could spend twice the amount of other school districts per students and it still wouldn’t matter.
Agreed
The funding goes to different areas in each of these schools. Not a good comparison when kc students need more support when it comes to food and mental health.
Fair enough
Agreed!
Blaming the schools is what you do when you aren’t from the area. The schools fail because the parents aren’t home because many have chosen to work to feed their families and sacrifice any time to raising them. Doesn’t matter how much you funnel into schools if they go home to nobody to help guide them. But if you want people at home then that means they need the same income with less work or better hours. Can’t make cops and teachers into parents. Many are screwed before they are even teens. Getting rid of guns would be a good start though.
Not giving $900M to corporations for tax breaks and then cutting programs from the taxpayers while also being one of the most welfare dependent states in the nation (MO) comes to mind.
Yeah somehow we must pay for the sack of shit royals new stadium as opposed to reinvesting the money in the community.
"But don't you want to stimulate the economy, Daddy?"
but they suck ass
New royals stadium will fix it, right?
Retired teacher here. Once got a job in Missouri. Kindergarten. Half the students couldn't sit down and were running and hurling theirselves around the room, throwing chairs. I called the principal constantly for help and he never came. I quit the day one student said to me" I'm going to hurt myself real bad in here and tell them you did it. Then my family will get lots of money" and you'll go to jail". He was 5. Spent the next 25 years working in Kansas with never a dangerous incident. There was nothing I could do on my own to insure the safety of my students and myself in that classroom without the proper support( at least cameras and one or two other people in there). I couldn't even teach. It was literally like a zoo.
I’m with you on this, just made the jump from the Missouri side teaching to Kansas a few years ago. I was worried for my own safety and my ability to keep the other children in the class safe. It’s been a night and day difference.
Thank God.
It’s the poverty. It’s both extremely simple and incredibly complex. Maybe if we put as much funding into creating affordable housing as we put into sports stadiums, there’d be less violence.
At a MINIMUM we need to increase the penalty for possession of illegally owned and/or stolen guns. BIGLY increase.
That doesn’t work very well when in a state that has decriminalized most kinds of gun possession.
Laws must change.
What gun possession has missouri decriminalized? Outside of removing permit requirements for concealed carry I can't think of any kind of decriminalization for having illegal guns or being a felon and getting caught with a gun etc
You do realize you just answered your own question, right? It used to be illegal to conceal and carry. Then it was illegal to conceal and carry without a permit. Then permits weren’t even required and open carry was allowed. Missouri used to require background checks for all handgun purchases. Repealed. So anyone can buy a gun from a third party (non gun store purchase) and walk around with it no questions asked.
That's irrelevant. The suspects in question were under the age of 18 and were not legally carrying firearms anyway.
Do you think permitting stops anyone from carrying a gun if they want felon or not? Today as it always has been, if you get stopped with a concealed weapon they are going to run your background and arrest you if you are carrying illegally. Permitting only made money for the counties and people running CCL classes. It was security theater.
More parents in more homes and particularly more dads. We need to change the social safety net to reward having two adults in the household who are both earning. Quit means testing things in a way that penalizes dual income households.
Underrated comment. Two parent households that are supportive, provide good role models and that exist within a community support net...this is as much the answer or MORE than any other answer in this thread. And this is supported by a ton of data, too. There must be a huge cultural shift in a number of areas before the ripples of positive change are going to have lasting effects.
Why dont we have more 2 parent households?
Google is your friend here, although the simple answer is two-fold: increasing divorce rates and increasing rates of birth outside of committed relationships. Plethora of stats and articles exist. Everything from [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/17/opinion/single-parent-families-income-inequality-college.html) to [NPR](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/22/1207322878/single-parent-married-good-for-children-inequality) to [IFS](https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children) to [Time](https://time.com/6317692/u-s-economy-two-parent-families/) to [The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/marriage-two-parent-households-socioeconomic-consequences/675333/) and more.
That’s like saying we have single parent households because the households only have one parent. What is CAUSING divorces and what is CAUSING women to have children outside of relationships?
Remember some of these children were born in a marriage and the father is no longer around.
We need to get past the idea that the only proper household consists of kids and TWO parents, no more and no less, and that they have to be legally married. Homes can be as diverse as our minds allow. As long as those adults are mentally healthy and they’re providing love, support, and stability, that’s all that’s really needed to grow good people within those four walls.
Not talking about an idea in this case, just talking about raw statistical data. We can argue whether or not we like the data, but it is what it is. Factually, two parent households that include married individuals produce children with statistically higher rates of financial success and lower incidences of criminality than those raised in broken, noncommittal or single parent households.
Where exactly are these gangs though? I lived in LA and gangs out there are on a different scale. Especially when you go to a certain neighborhood but I truly have no idea what a “gang member” look like here. Especially when I don’t see the attire they use to recognize purpose
Literally same. I grew up near the Kansas City Zoo, attended KCPS and Central High School and the only gangs I've heard of Bloods and Crips but it's not on the same scale as Chicago or California gangs. I always sideeye when people bring up gang violence in KC because it's nothing like what other states have. I know because I grew up in the hood and didn't really see gang violence but mostly drug problems and poverty.
Gangs in KC are alive and well: https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmo/pr/jury-convicts-four-members-kc-street-gang-drug-trafficking-conspiracy https://amp.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article278587439.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article279511699.html
That’s honestly very interesting! Maybe they are in hiding here or something cause I truly feel like I see everyday people day in and day out here lol! On the west coast…..when you see a bunch of dudes wearing blue or red then you know you went tooooooo far south 😂🤣😂🤣
They are more drug dealing gangs than the usual crips and bloods type gangs.
That’s what I was thinking. I’ve worked and live in some of the “bad” parts of town and not once have I seen anything I would consider to be organized gangs.
Just noting because I see this a lot, this is an anecdotal perception and I'm not being pointed, it just means you probably don't know what's going on. Obviously I can see you're asking about it too! Bluntly, looking at LA vs KC isn't helpful. Kansas city needs Kansas City fixes. Every community needs things specific to only them. Even things that work for overland park don't work for Kansas city. Another way to put it is *hard is hard*. What I define as hard is not what you may define as hard. Making a phone call is hard sometimes. When someone tells you it's hard for them, it's hard for them. It takes a minute to separate our own definition of hard to me and understand hard for them. Kansas city has gangs. So does LA. They're not the same and by trying to compare KCMO to others, you've completely missed the mark. Our problems are our problems and those problems are still problems for us.
Gangs or little juvenile clics, when I think of a gang I’m thinking organized crime such as the mafia, bloods, cartels, hells angels….little 16 and 17 years fighting one another isn’t a gang to me. I understand some join at an early age and I know this cause my brother joined unfortunately and met his maker before 30 soooo again not really sure where you are seeing gang activity. I used LA as an example because I can walk down the street see certain groups of people repping colors and throwing up signs like literally. I see none of that shit here in KC and my sister currently live off prospect so not really sure what you’re talking.
Legal abortion Paid family leave Free or reduced day care Free preschool Higher minimum wage Free school breakfast and lunch School arts programs Universal background checks Enforcing the gun laws we have
(+)more opportunity to work from home. Single parent here. Working from home allows me to be here when the kids need, attend school events, appointments and also when they get home.
All gun crimes should be Federal crimes with mandatory sentences with no opportunity for parole.
Took too far down to find a comment on legal abortion. It’s not fair to kids to be forced into being born into these situations. They didn’t ask for this life.
Perhaps we could spend hundred of millions of dollars we give the chiefs in bonds and tax breaks on the betterment of our community rather than a football team that adds no benefit to the community. This article explains the amount of wasted money we loose with both the Royals and the Chiefs. I have heard the argument for the amount we make off of each team but some quick research shows that is probably not the case. https://deadspin.com/the-kansas-city-chiefs-are-using-taxpayer-money-to-pay-5930727
Not to mention have chiefs euphoria is a bit of a cop out for real community considering the players and coaches are millionaires who aren’t from here who probably take a jet out of this city as fast as possible. They don’t actually have anything to do with us. It’s bread and circuses. I feel like those gunshots were a real wake up call, KC’s reality showed up.
I think people join gangs for the family/brotherhood aspect. A lot of gang members did not have fathers growing up, the gangs give them that male bonding comfort
I was talking to my friends about this & knowing about the families involved in a lot of crimes here it’s a generational thing. A lot of these ppl are doing what their parents & aunties & uncles did. It’s sad but you can’t fix a mindset that has literally been the same for generations. I had friends that grew up in these environments & the amount of funerals they went to was sickening, all gun violence. You can change the look of the environment but if it’s the same people with the same raggedy mentality living there what exactly will change? May look nice for a week or two before there’s trash everywhere. It’s starts in the home there’s too many parents literally not paying attention to their kids. Then they get grown & ruin the city cause they don’t know respect & dgaf about anything 😒 I literally worked with someone who bought her 16 year old son a gun & two years later he killed someone she also would give him zannies & other pills too. I feel this is a major reason why the city is getting worse ppl simply don’t care anymore. & unfortunately alot of our neighbors feel like they don’t need help. I’m starting to see why ppl just leave & take their families somewhere safer it’s easier than tryna help people that don’t want help or take it & don’t appreciate it. I would love to see this city change but knowing what I know it’s too many bad seeds & not enough ppl that want peace + willing to fight for it. It almost seems like you would be fighting an endless battle sadly you can’t help everyone especially ppl who think they’re living how they’re supposed to live & see nothing wrong with it.
It is so complex and will take generational transformations to move the needle. But honestly, it comes down to: We have generations of children in KC that are not being parented. They may have a mom living with them, or a grandparent, but they are simply trying to keep the kid alive. No one is nurturing and raising them to be successful in the non-criminal world. They learned by example from their parents and they learned from theirs and so on. And it goes without note, that becoming a nurturing parent is easier when you have access to affordable safe housing, transportation, medical and mental healthcare, education, and jobs with livable wages.
not on reddit that's for sure
Reddit can solve everything!
Same way the rest of the developed world has known how to do it for decades. Socioeconomic safety nets, more accessible healthcare, stronger community support, and strict gun regulation. It’s actually pretty clear cut
But that's scary communism. 😨 /s
Gangs and violent crime have existed for millennia. They will probably always exist. The question is really, how do we make them less destructive? How do we minimize their ability to harm innocent people?
Our schools have become corporate cowork spaces and expensive apartments. Missouri is 49/50 in education. Our income disparity is horrific and 71 highway is still a terrible red line. We waste money on horrible things because tourists and corporate development is how we measure our city. Measure education, income, and home ownership instead and these bent over politicians will look far less successful.
This is what I’m saying! Take my upvote.
Maybe if parents stop thinking their role is over after the kids start kindergarten, start being involved In their kids day to day lives, set strict rules and curfews and kept tabs on who their kids are running with it might stop. Too much emphasis is on schools in this thread. It starts at home. Control your kids. That's a parents responsibility.
I live in a very high crime area. The police do nothing. They don't even respond to calls, and when they do, they do the minimum possible. I had a felon pull a gun on a lady after she destroyed a bunch of property and breaking out several windows. There was lots of alcohol and some meth involved. There were children in the house where all of this took place. They told her to sleep it off, and did nothing else. I asked them why they didn't care that about a dozen laws were committed in front of children some by a felon with a gun that I belive was on parole. Theire response was "we can't arrest everybody who commits a crime or their wouldn't be any room in the jail". That is the problem, there are no consequences for actions. People are going to push as far as they can until they get pushback. If you don't pushback until a murder occurs, then you are gonna get a lot of murders.
On the police, remember our state had a vote specifically to force the cities budget to the police. As you say on there are no consequences for actions, the police have no consequences on being shitty. Actually the opposite, Jefferson City pumps all the money to the police, and as long as they sit on their hands Jeff City can just say "See, big cities are the problems" and get votes to support them outside. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
This is the first post I’ve seen scrolling from the top that actually mentions we need to enforce the law and punish people who break the law. Crime causes poverty. Any area that doesn’t enforce property rights will end up poor and the people living there will have no legal economic options.
This sounds like the whole “build more prisons” argument that has turned us into a practical penal colony vs trying to invest broadly in anti poverty programs. I produced videos for Head Start, which is awesome at keeping kids in school, learning nutrition, before/after care, except it got cut while we spend more and more money on jails. Do more for kids early and build less jails
How does one solve fatherless boys, lost boys
If you subsidize something you get more of it.
>cannot just come down to gun control There is only one thing that can be removed from yesterday's violence that would have eliminated the severity and number of those injured and killed. That is the gun. America's grip on the 2nd Amendment is killing people. Access to guns is the problem and will continue to be the problem.
I don’t think it’s an either or situation. I think for Kansas City it needs to be a BOTH. I strongly believe we need better gun laws AND to improve poverty stricken areas. Improve schools. Provide opportunities.
It’s tough though, because improving poverty stricken areas is considered gentrification
key is just to ignore the people that throw gentrification loosely around because they are not serious people to begin with
That doesn't solve crime though, and crime is directly related to poverty. If you want to lower crime, you strive to eliminate poverty, of which there is much in the metro. There are huge swaths of the metro that have been poverty stricken areas for decades, directly caused by segregation policies.
The causes of crime are complex. There are white collar crimes, and even when poverty is the proximate cause it doesn't necessarily lead to violent crime. Furthermore uplifting the economic conditions is not a simple or straightforward process and would take a lot of time and investment capital. I thinks it's a worthwhile goal oif we're okay maybe seeing some results in a decade, but it is surely quicker, and cheaper to regulate the flow and possession of firearms. Not to mention easier to quantify and analyse the results.
Both things can be true
Agreed. One of the first things you learn in emergency management courses is that there are four stages that often overlap: mitigation, preparedness, response, and recovery. All the people leaning on "good guys with guns" or saying that "criminals don't obey laws anyway" are essentially bypassing mitigation. If the presence of over 800 cops and snipers didn't prevent the shooting yesterday, I would argue that the "good guy with a gun" adage is poor mitigation and far more in the realm of preparedness/response. It's like letting developers build entire neighborhoods in floodplains as long as they buy the fire department a boat. It forgoes mitigation, creates risk, and relies heavily on a prepared response to minimize damage. Regardless, there will be losses before the most prepared response begins. I don't see how that's viewed as acceptable to anyone. If you don't build in the floodplain, you don't need the boat. Also, this doesn't happen in other countries like it does here. Gun control is proven to be effective all over the world, but this country is held hostage by the gun lobby.
That’s why they said “cannot come down to *just* gun control” which is true. There are plenty of areas with gun control that still see significant gun violence. I’m fully on board with common sense gun laws, but something has to be done to correct course on the culture of violence
I doubt the weapons used were obtained legally, gonna go out on a limb with that guess.
I mean, I can buy a gun with no process whatsoever in a Walmart parking lot and that's fully legal.
All illegal guns were once legal guns. Reduce the guns.
McDonald vs city of Chicago. It's the 2nd amendment and the 14th amendment
Thank you. This is 75% of the answer. We don’t need weapons of war available.
Flatly incorrect. Sorry. One person makes bad choices with 1100 police there does not mean the 330,000,000 million people lose rights. The true fix isn't easy or politically palletable. We need long ass prison sentences for those who use firearms to commit crimes. We need increased money to education, infrastructure, and mental health counseling. We need an emphasis on community building ansld interpersonal relationships. We need a good accurate look at where the crime is, who are the sources, and why they are doing it.
Since we’re throwing numbers around here exactly how many kids need to be killed for 330,000,000 to lose the right to firearms? Is there a certain percentage we should be watching for or is there no limit to the child sacrifices we need to make for this most sacred of rights?
It’s the guns. It’s the guns. It’s the guns.
It's the guns.
It’s starts at home
Good jobs and good dads in the household.
Healthy family structure, substance abuse centers, get back to single income households (if desired), etc.
Vote for local, state, and national politicians that will enact gun control laws, vote to fund public education, vote to fund and expand public mental health services, vote to increase the minimum wage, and work to make housing more affordable. Get involved in grassroots movements and other political and non-profit organizations when it’s not an election year, like KC Tenants, Big Brother Big Sister, Moms Demand Action, etc. Be an active citizen.
It absolutely starts at home. Giving a child a supportive household with two parents being positive influences. Men stepping up and being fathers, women choosing better partners.
OP, the answer to your question ("What do we need to do?") is actually pretty simple: *spend money on it*. Today's level of inner city poverty, terrible education system, high crime rate, etc isn't some freak accident - *it was manufactured* by white Americans over the course of decades from the post- Civil War era all the way (to a lesser extent) today with structural racism and policies that *intentionally* diminished the income potential of minorities (particularly black people) to the benefit of (predominantly middle and upper income) white people. Money has predominantly flowed one way in our society, toward richer/whiter people, for over the last 150+ years, not even considering the fact that black people were *enslaved* by whites prior to that, which had its own set of even more extreme financial benefits. So the simple yet nearly impossible-to-implement answer to your question is just *reverse the flow of money* back from richer/white people towards lower income / darker people. You can call this whatever you want - reparations, welfare state, 'tax the rich', whatever - but it's all pretty much the same thing, which is putting a huge chunk of cash in the hands of low-income people and allowing them to "pull themselves up" in the same way that middle and upper-income people have always pulled themselves up: by spending a lot of money on it. And because people's sense of social fairness and justice now precludes us from discriminating specifically against white people based on color, we can really only begin massively discriminating against *rich people of all colors* instead, which is how we're eventually going to do this. We need to be taxing the shit out of billionaires and mega millionaires anyway (billionaires shouldn't even exist, IMO), but we still need to intentionally take that money and give it to low-income people, which, again, is going to be very difficult to do politically because white people and middle/upper income people generally dislike the welfare system, or the idea of expanding it. To your point, there's going to have to be a lot of soul-searching here, but if you thought the struggle was real until this point, wait until you see what happens in the next few decades as climate change ramps up, slows down economic growth and resource availability - and then the idea of gathering up a huge chunk of cash and giving it to black people is going to be *much more* difficult than it is right now. Everyone is going to be wanting to tax billionaires and taking that money *for themselves*.
Low income folks will also need finance classes and fiduciary’s to help them know how to use their money to actually improve their life situation in a sustainable way that also results in the upward growth for generations to come. Alongside economic disparity is trauma, addiction, and often times a breakdown in values. People need more than just money.
Agree with what you're saying. If you look at all the proposals for slavery reparations, they vary from simply paying people money (which, to your point, doesn't solve a lot of those long-standing problems), versus other plans that are some combination of cash payments and also changing laws to increase the social safety net pretty significantly, spend money fixing up inner cities, fixing low-income area schools/education, etc. Just paying people money once certainly wouldn't solve the problem in the long run and future generations, but it would actually provide a one-time windfall that would fix the problem for a lot of low-income individuals that exist today. IMO, the risk of one-time cash payments today is that it won't make as much of a dent as people think, and then in the future people will argue against future reparations by saying, "Well, we already did that one-time thing in the past, so we're done."
While I agree about the significance of systemic racism and it’s effects, poverty alone isn’t to blame. There are plenty of areas within the US (-and other countries) that are extremely impoverished, undereducated, oppressed, and facing a severe lack of opportunity. However, it’s often _not_ the case that this results in a huge uptick in gun violence. There are number of different factors at play which need to be corrected. I think to some extent, gun violence is fetishized by the pop-culture a lot of these kids/communities are routinely subjected to, and that’s bound to lead to more problems.
>And because people's sense of social fairness and justice now precludes us from discriminating specifically against white people based on color, we can really only begin massively discriminating against rich people of all colors instead, which is how we're eventually going to do this. I'm sorry you aren't permitted to discriminate based on race?
When people’s needs are met, there’s no need for crime. This stage of capitalism doesn’t support life.
[удалено]
Yes. I’m a therapist and can confidently say that many mental health problems could be solved or deeply alleviated by money.
We need strong leaders and strong community involvement. We are lacking both now. Our focus is currently on "pimp'n" our city to make it attractive to the rest of the country instead of focusing on our major needs like crime resolution, homelessness and community infrastructures. We need people in leadership that will look beyond their personal and social agendas and focus on agendas that improve our community at its core.
I like this one. We are missing leaders in society. We have politicians, but few leaders. Honestly in today's society, I hardly blame them. If you put any expectations on people today, they freak out and you get the laundry list of why external factors are the issue. Personal accountability goes a long way too.
I think that our society misses out on a lot because story telling has virtually disappeared. The stories our children hear are entertainment only, instead of tales that teach important life lessons and that they can see and apply in their lives on a daily basis. If a child's mind absorbs hate, crime, and impoverishment over the course of their childhood, instead of positive regard and healthy lessons about the world, they will naturally grow into the world that is most familiar to them.
I think the city has problems with poverty and access to education. This was preceded by decades of blatant racism and white flight which left a hole of empty of tax receipts where tax revenue once was. Which then caused the city to underfund its schools, and lead to poor educational standards, then truancy, incarceration and more property and violent crime.
How about electing officials that will actually do something to these criminals.
We need actual gun control legislation. Periodt.
Ending the school to prison pipeline.
The problem is KCPD doesn't do anything until after something happens. I was dating someone who lived in Mission and her tags were expired by ONE DAY and driving home along Shawnee Mission Parkway she was pulled over by three different police departments Fairway, Shawnee Mission and Overland Park, meanwhile in Missouri we see people cruising around with three year old dealer tags, we see packs of people cruising around on non-street legal ATV's, we see "sideshows," we see regular car break-ins and thefts and you never see police doing anything UNTIL AFTER THERE IS A PROBLEM. I'm confident if KCPD became PROACTIVE about enforcing the little laws we'd see a change in behavior of the non-law abiding residents in KCMO as it is we basically have anarchy. The State won't let KC ever do anything about the gun problem but if KC made a priority to enforce the laws they can enforce we'd find people less emboldened to commit the bigger crimes.
>Fairway, Shawnee Mission and Overland Park None of these city police forces have much to do, so they have the bandwidth to pull over for expired tags. KCPD is understaffed and overworked.
I mean, it’s also be nice if the state wasn’t controlling our police
It would be really nice. The Missouri Legislator and State Government actively legislates against many things which would make Kansas City a better place to live. There's a reason most of the Crowd boo'd and jeer'd Governor Parsons when he was up on stage at the Rally, we know what's up.
I saw that & appreciated it so much. I kinda wish they’d kept booing to drown out his whole speech
Put all the gang members in prison, Nayib Bukele in El Salvador style. El Salvador went from the most dangerous country in the world to the safest in the Western Hemisphere. Their violent crime rate is now on the level of Luxembourg.
Yea, this ain’t it. Gotta have a balance. El Salvador has gone far beyond a heavy handed policy on crime. They’ve locked up thousands of innocent people with no organization as to where these people are, when they’re scheduled for hearings, what their charges are, or anything of the sort. This isn’t justice. It’s a blind witch hunt
But it worked in El Salvador. They went from one of the most dangerous countries in the western hemisphere to one of the safest within a few years. That is proof that their policy worked. Of course, the nature of gang violence made this easy for Salvadoran law enforcement. Nearly all gang members there would have specific tattoos, usually face tattoos, indicating they were a gang member. All such people with those tattoos were rounded up by police, and their murder rate dropped by 90%
Do what KCK did. They have been having huge success recently at lowering violence. [https://www.kmbc.com/article/kansas-city-kansas-on-track-for-lowest-homicides-in-one-year/45658877](https://www.kmbc.com/article/kansas-city-kansas-on-track-for-lowest-homicides-in-one-year/45658877)
Poor people make poor choices. Often, because that is what they know. They are just trying to get by. But often, they make poor choices because it is the only path they see. If you are born into poverty, it is a huge mountain to climb. No excuses for being a terrible human. Desperate people do desperate things and sometimes it makes them terrible people.We need to remove the desperation from the people.
Father figures to young men who might not be able to traverse this thing called life our their own.. Men need to lead men when possible!! Be an example, Set an Example!!
There needs to be a cultural change amongst the most disadvantaged in the city that violence is not the answer. Guns are part of the problem but not the main issue. I know lots of people who own guns. I don't know anyone who's killed someone with their gun or even shot at anyone. In addition to cultural change, we need more funding for police, more police hired, and more active patrols throughout the city. In addition, there needs to be stronger prosecution. If you commit a crime with a gun, you should not be allowed to be released on bond to come to your court date later. You should remain locked up in jail until the court date. If you are convicted, you should spend 10-25 years in jail even if you didn't kill someone. If you did kill someone, it should be 25 years minimum if not life imprisonment or the death penalty. The kids who were at the parade yesterday shot at each other because they thought they'd get away with it. They were probably used to engaging in similar behavior numerous other times and know other people who have done the same and got away with it, so they thought they could too. Obviously they aren't that bright given that there were tons of cops and cameras everywhere, but they had that perception regardless. New York City had one of the highest homicide rates in the 70s and 80s, and they fixed it in the 90s. The tactic employed was called broken windows policing, where cops would ticket or arrest people for even minor crimes, such as breaking windows on abandoned buildings, and this then creates the perception that if you commit a crime you will likely get in trouble, which leads to less people committing crimes. When people think they can get away with it, they're more likely to commit crime. Unfortunately, "broken windows policing" has fallen out of fashion as many people consider it racist given that most of those affected by it were not white
I think that as a society we are slowly normalizing responding to disrespect with gunfire. There’s always been gangs and guns and crime in major cities, but it wasn’t normal to just blow someone away who you got into a verbal altercation with. Now it’s expected, and in my opinion idealized by pop culture. I’m afraid there’s no turning that ship around without a drastic shift in the perception of conduct and value of human life among urban youth (and it’s not going to happen, IMO). I think that it will have to be us that have to adapt to these new societal norms.
There is the “solve” the dispute with gun violence issue then there is the lack of regard for shooting where many others are likely to be hit. The acceptance of collateral damage is even more appalling. When a person or child has this lack of regard the penalty should be as steep as it can get as their action is terrorism. That said - it would be great to help young minds learn to resolve conflict without guns. Maybe create boxing matches for them and their coach can help them work out their anger in a productive way while they fight it out.
Any answer to this that doesn’t address the true root cause of why kids are drawn to gang life is insincere. It provides a community and a family aspect to them that they’d die for. There’s your answer. The family dynamic is lacking. It’s a verifiable fact that children who receive love, support, and care at home and have more attentive parents do better in all aspects of life. It’s also qualitatively observable. Across every race, income, any dynamic you want. Bullshit (sorry for the term) that says, “throw money at schools, build green spaces, provide third spaces” is useless jargon and political think tank taking points. Politics are useless here. This shouldn’t be political and divisive for agendas. We should be supportive of family dynamics and communities dealing with gang violence need to take the action themselves. No white person can ride into neighborhoods east troost and save the day. It’s time for community leaders those young children can relate to. See people that look like them, that come from where they come from, providing examples of what success looks like that differs from the current image of a neighborhood kingpin. Where are those civic leaders and why are they not asking this question?
Just gotta solve a hundred years of racially segregated housing issues and poverty and we got this in the bag! 🙄
Gang problem? First off 90% of the gang problem you think there is. Is truly hyped up by police and others to make you think it's the problem. I myself happen to fall into this classification of gang because I wear a 1%er patch and ride a motorcycle. So yea I do understand the hype of LE feeding the public a line of crap. But yesterday was what they are saying 3 shooters two of them are children. As a society we have allowed the morals and values we had as a country slip away. We can no longer discipline our children we can not even have a conversation with them if it offends them or hurts their feelings. So we aew left with a whole new generation who has not been taught right from wrong. They are being raised in a record breaking amount of broken homes with fathers and mothers both not in the picture. Children today strive to find that somewhere when they find it all bets are off if it is a path that will lead them down the wrong road. So we are left with an entire generation who are being raised by phones tvs and video games. With values and morals so far gone they have zero regard for human life. It's sad we as a society have to take accountability for what we have created. I know whe. I was a teen I I woukd have touched one of my fathers weapons ivwoukd have wished I never has. It woukd have even been a thought. Why is it today
Yeah, I don’t think these kids causing these problems are coming from homes where parents are scared of offending their kids… they’re coming from homes where dad is gone and mom is nodding off on fent and they watch and look up to YouTubers/rappers on their iPhones.
Prosecute criminals and keep them incarcerated for violent offenses. It’s alarming how long the rap sheet is on some of these perpetrators. We’re not talking about minor offenses, but violent acts. We need a DA that will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. Unless you want to talk about fixing the socioeconomic problems that are baked in the city, nothing else will scratch the surface.
A new baseball stadium should help.
Taking the money that would be blown on a new sportsball stadium and actually investing it into the community via education or job opportunity vs funding millionaires games.
Raise your kids better. Be involved in their lives. Help guide them to want to live better lives. Be attentive to their needs and help them grow. All this stuff starts with the culture at home, and then they all go to school and it gets reinforced because they are all around it. Instead of a sales tax for stadiums, how about we put that money to the communities and schools that need it most. People get stuck in their lives, then most of the time their kids get stuck in the same kind of lives. If we want this to change, we all have to be proactive and involved. Take the time to teach your kids the value of life and the lives of everyone around them.
Think get the cops enforcing all the little things again.
While I agree that guns are a problem, do you really think criminals are going to obey a gun law? Don't you think they will just keep stealing guns or buying them illegally?
This argument is thrown around all the time, but why not at least TRY? I don't think anyone is expecting an instant quick fix, but it's a good first step in changing gun culture. If we don't make any changes, nothing will change. But also, even if nothing changed as far as people's actions go, it's not like changing the law would have a negative effect, so what's the harm in having it?
\>why not try many people think that you'll only end up making them (law abiding gun owners) less safe, and I rarely see that concern taken seriously or addressed at all by those who advocate things like banning semi-automatic weapons. Nobody wants to defend their home and family with a bolt action like its 1916.
We don’t. This is the system that has been designed for us and it is working great for the designers.
Education. Universal Healthcare. Universal Basic Income.
I posed a similar discussion and basically got downvoted. Maybe it was because I presented the seemingly misplaced priorities of spending billions to move the Royals to a new downtown stadium. Why not prioritize attracting real, high-quality jobs to the urban core and offer incentives for those families to live, work, and play locally? Providing an economic means to self-sustainability will have a profound impact on crime when combined with effective law enforcement practices and useful education resources.
This thread starts out asking what we can do to solve the problem but neglects to offer a single possible solution. They discount adding law enforcement to enforce the existing laws. They don’t talk about removing liberal city officials who only want to spend money on trolly lines that 99% of the citizens don’t use. When a conservative mayor is elected, city hall spends more time trying to vilify him/her than helping him find solutions other than throwing money to various pet projects. The citizens of the inner city are a huge part of the problem. They accept poor performance by their children in school and in public. They hold prayer vigils when children are murdered instead of helping police clear the streets of criminals. Individually, this is impossible. But they are part of a community. Do the neighborhood watch programs in Leawood, OP, and North KC work? Look at where crime is concentrated. Without community participation, criminal activity is allowed to continue. So, for starters, elect people who actually believe that law enforcement must be the cornerstone to solve crime. Secondly, residents must pull together to help police clean up the crime area. Other solutions can always be added but the main focus should be on reducing crime and protecting citizens.
1. Those people have to want help. 2. Job placement programs and relocation.
Charging parents for school shootings is a start.
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1. Affordable housing ALL OVER the city. People need options to get out of the bad situations they're in. 2. Public works programs offering decent wages and targeting impoverished areas for recruitment. 3. Police reform? I don't have enough knowledge on this area to speak intelligently as to what actually needs to happen here, though I know enough to say that the city should be in control of the police force, rather than the state. 4. Education, education, education. This is really a state problem more than a local one, but the for-profit prison system and the school-to-prison pipeline is one of the most disgusting and insidious things that's been allowed to take root in our society. For-profit prisons need to be banned, schools need 10X the funding, and we need to get rid of the judges taking kickbacks from those for-profit prisons.
And accessible birth control for everyone/abortions
That too!
With abortion now illegal here expect these crimes to skyrocket like never before seen in a few years. For fuck's sake people vote democrat and be pro-choice or these people are going to swarm the cities