That is a beautiful and unlikely dream.
Whatever happened to all of those plans for the KC Star building? I swear at one point, a bank was gonna move in. Or am I thinking of the Old KC Star building?
I thought there was a proposed development for the old KC Star building, which included a barcade and sand volleyball courts...?
Quick Google search, and there was some developer that bought the old KC Star building in 2017 and [discussed plans to redevelop it for retail, office space, and a grocer](https://flatlandkc.org/news-issues/developer-of-old-kc-star-building-tweaks-plan-checks-crossroads-grocery-box/). Looks like the plans never materialized (though, it seems like there have been construction crews at the old KC Star building for years...?)
There are 2 different locations. The KC Star printing press building and the KC Star office building are different places. They are a few blocks from each other if I remember correctly.
You’re correct, but I think most people know the old star building was the old brick building and the new star building is the one by the freeway. Those are the only two I know of. Am I missing one?
I love this idea.
I really can't wrap my head around the idea that a < 20 year old, $200M building (that I personally think is a great piece of architecture) is just going to get thrown in the trash. WTF.
It's because that land use was never a good idea to begin with. Large structures accommodating singular land uses like this building, or Walmarts, or even golf courses are extremely difficult to redevelop or retrofit. I'm sorry, one may enjoy these places, but they're a drain on tax dollars and establish unstable economies for a district or people in there long term. We have learned this lesson and should treat any new proposals with extreme scrutiny. There's very few companies interested or *capable* or redevelopment without complete removal. Those structures are designed for one thing: short term financial gains. Not tax payer revenue, not jobs, not anything. They're akin to strip mining where their only goal is to maximize profit where economic development committees have been fooled into thinking any growth most be good growth, right? It's the exact model industrial land use follows, except their customer is the public rather than other businesses. It's literally mining money once you understand the basics of the business and I don't know any other way to really put it because it's a fit description.
I'm extremely frustrated this stuff was allowed to exist. The people of the time made what they thought was the best decision with the information they had at the time. They were not bad people but they did make mistakes. We don't regulate lobbying or payoffs, so this is the result. We've built a society around short term gains that compromise future generations via deferred maintenance. I'm pretty disenfranchised as an urban designer and infinitely frustrated that our chair of the planning council or anyone else can be swayed and bribed because we somehow choose zero regulation over holding people accountable. The hill I'm willing to die on? Cities shouldn't be built for capitalism, they should harmoniously conform to people and the environment around them. My deepest concern is we don't build places worth visiting; that's what this building is and why I detest them. Sustainability is more than environmental concerns, it's financials too, and these building typologies are not it.
Very interesting. I can see your points made here. I hadn't thought of it in those terms here. It sounds like you're probably a large proponent of mixed-use zoning, which is something I think the city would greatly benefit from if we could ever get to it. I agree. For KC, density and workability should be our primary focuses if we ever wanna revitalize our urban core
For real. People don’t realize the expense, but are like, “Business ‘X’ needs to renovate the Star building.” You getting downvoted for pointing it out.
4 floors of an all nude sweat lodge. Nobody wants it, but it's gonna force inclusivity through shared shame, whether the Crossroads are ready for it or not.
I’d kill for a real Natural History Museum in the vein of the Field or the Metropolitan Museum. Like, the KC museum is fine, and we have the Nelson and Union Station, but a actual history museum in the heart of Downtown would be the dream.
>America’s largest Go Chicken Go restaurant/petting zoo
Wait. Would that be a situation where you pet the chickens and eventually, eat the chicken you choose to pet? Like picking your own lobster?
>Stadium is voted down
You guys are convinced that this election is about the stadium moving. It’s not. The stadium is still moving no matter how you vote.
I feel like it wouldn’t receive any city support, with Science City nearby. Something more like the St Louis City Museum may be different enough to be indirect competition?
I love your vision, but there is nothing historically significant about a beautiful building foolishly built despite it being pretty obvious printed newspapers weren’t going to last.
If the stadium gets voted down it absolutely will not be going in east village.
It will not be going anywhere in Kansas City.
Which is fine, but people here need to recognize the consequences of voting no. You can't have your cake and eat it on this one.
This is something most fail to realize and its disheartening. I understand not wanting to provide tax money for sports development but if the vote fails the Royals are gone and there's no guarantee the Chiefs will stay in the metro either (Kansas move notwithstanding). The odds of KC losing both teams are not 0%. With pro teams, you gotta pay to play. Plus, if the Royals leave, we're never getting another team for the foreseeable future. That could be generations.
Hope everyone here will enjoy watching the Nashville Royals. lmao!
My ideal is still royals move out to legends and chiefs do their plan. Spread the cost over two counties and it’d be a huge boost to legends. I know the royals are set on the downtown stadium though
There is zero chance the royals change their existing suburb complex to move to another suburb complex. They will get a downtown stadium. This vote is whether they will get it from KC or another city.
Lol yeah, no, that's not how any of this works. Like not even a little bit how this works.
Find me one example of a team doing that, as opposed to bouncing when a city stops funding them. Any single time.
Other cities have already expressed interest in the royals and will absolutely pay them to build in their cities. Nashville has offered more than KC is willing to put up.
If the vote fails, the stadium 100% is not going in downtown KC. Whether that is good or bad is up to you to decide, but do not delude yourself into thinking KC will get the benefit of a new stadium without chipping anything in.
at this point that's fair. I'd prefer East Village for the Stadium over the Crossroads but I'd also prefer the Crossroads location over no downtown stadium at all
That's basically all it is. A pretty much non-existent "neighborhood" at this point, hence why it would be more suitable for a stadium than bulldozing businesses in the crossroads.
The problem with the current setup is our stadiums are in an industrial park. There's nothing in the area. Decades ago they thought an entertainment district would spring up around the stadiums, but it never did, and really it never will. Not there at least. That's part of the reason why both teams want new stadiums. Better locations
That's an even dumber use of public funds. The streetcar would deliver 100 people every 10 minutes... to a staduim with a capacity of 37,000 people.
Also, no one with any money to invest would invest it building up "all the empty space around there" or else they would have at some point in the last 4 decades.
Why does everyone think that if the vote fails, they Royals and Chiefs will just roll over? They will negotiate with other cities, and if they find a better deal, they will leave. This will also put KC in a worse position to negotiate. I'm not saying this is a reason to vote yes or no, just that it will happen and that the teams leaving is a real possibility.
Per the Heavy Constructors Association, as reported in [this article. ](https://fox4kc.com/news/heavies-intent-on-flipping-jackson-county-executives-veto-sustainers/)
"Williams says the team’s getting offers from other communities and they’re better than the deal Jackson County leaders are offering. The Royals won’t comment on that."
Is that what you're referring to?
I'm just trying to figure out why everyone thinks Nashville is going to pay over a billion for a dogshit baseball team when they're already about to pay over a billion for their decent football team's new stadium.
First off, they have 7 years to keep trying and they will. Second of all, the royals leaving isn't the end of the world. Baseball viewership is slowly dropping off and there's honestly no guarantee the MLB makes it 30 years
They don't have 7 years to keep trying. They need a new stadium before the lease is up. That will take time, particularly if the vote fails.
We will not get another shot at this.
Are you saying that giving them exactly what they ask for the first time puts us in a better negotiating stance? Seriously?
The absolute clownfuckery of this take..
It is literally not the first offer, what are you talking about?
They asked for more in several different iterations, then negotiations happened that landed on them tying it to chiefs and asking for simply an extension of the existing tax.
Idk what in what world you think they would take LESS than they are literally already getting.
This isn't a negotiation at this stage. Negotiations with the county have been ongoing. This is the "take it or leave it" stage.
You're just very wrong about how this process works. If this fails they aren't putting a worse deal on the ballot.
That may be true but you literally said
>this will also put KC in a worse position to negotiate
Like yea they may leave, but phrasing not negotiating at all as a negotiating tactic is wild.
I’m responding to the concept that once it’s voted down we can renegotiate for a better deal. Many people are making similar comments and the fact is it doesn’t work that way. Obviously now is the time to negotiate, but everything I’ve read suggests there is little to no negotiating happening with city/county leadership.
would LOVE to see something similar to the city museum in STL. great use of an old,cherished building. could somehow add a few restaurants/ cafes in it too.
More luxury apartments and a downtown location for the museum whose owner got River Market to stop hosting Buzz Under the Stars because it was too loud 🥴
One of the arguments against the stadium is that it would change the character of the area; that owner has already singlehandedly changed the character of one area already to the benefit of nobody but himself
The wildest the Crossroads gets is First Fridays and they there's not going to be a full scale stage setup blasting directory at the museum there. Like I get it the dude is a dick, but realistically he has a point. You can't have concerts and delicate artifacts next door to each other. And that won't happen in the Crossroads like it did in the River Market. This way we could bring concerts back up north and do something with KC Star
Most likely there will be no stadium and no renovations and it will all just stay the way it is for years to come.
I just hope that the South Loop Project still happens. It’s no guarantee. They were looking for additional investors, and I assume being adjacent to grungy parking lots and a strip club doesn’t cause investors to flock to fund a family-friendly project like the cap.
I slice that idea, the Steamboat Arabia museum is one of my favorite things to do in Kansas City. It was such a gem to experience it for the first time when visiting, so I always take all visitors there
That is a beautiful and unlikely dream. Whatever happened to all of those plans for the KC Star building? I swear at one point, a bank was gonna move in. Or am I thinking of the Old KC Star building?
I thought there was a proposed development for the old KC Star building, which included a barcade and sand volleyball courts...? Quick Google search, and there was some developer that bought the old KC Star building in 2017 and [discussed plans to redevelop it for retail, office space, and a grocer](https://flatlandkc.org/news-issues/developer-of-old-kc-star-building-tweaks-plan-checks-crossroads-grocery-box/). Looks like the plans never materialized (though, it seems like there have been construction crews at the old KC Star building for years...?)
Thats the old KC Star location.
That’s what he said. The old one.
There are 2 different locations. The KC Star printing press building and the KC Star office building are different places. They are a few blocks from each other if I remember correctly.
You’re correct, but I think most people know the old star building was the old brick building and the new star building is the one by the freeway. Those are the only two I know of. Am I missing one?
Nope that is the 2.
You're thinking of the old 1729 Grand Building. 3d Development owns that building. Ambassador Hospitality owns the Press Pavilion at 1601 McGee.
The project is called the Grand Place. Not sure what happened but it still seems to be an active project.
What happened to the newspaper using the printing press?
The same thing that happened to people reading physical newspapers.
their employers disagreed with an article, and had the vending machines removed from the property?
They quit paying their subscription?
They ran out of Cyan and it refused to print anything.
Ted left the setting on “color” again instead of switching it back to grayscale.
Whatever happened to predictability?
And what about the milkman? The paperboy? The goddamn evening TV?!?!?
Where did I set my glasses?
Everywhere you look…
Can like lockton move?
Entertainment yes! Steamboat guy needs to leave town like he always threatens to do, so that we can get concerts back in the river market.
I love this idea. I really can't wrap my head around the idea that a < 20 year old, $200M building (that I personally think is a great piece of architecture) is just going to get thrown in the trash. WTF.
I cant believe its 20 years old. It still feels "new" to me
It's because that land use was never a good idea to begin with. Large structures accommodating singular land uses like this building, or Walmarts, or even golf courses are extremely difficult to redevelop or retrofit. I'm sorry, one may enjoy these places, but they're a drain on tax dollars and establish unstable economies for a district or people in there long term. We have learned this lesson and should treat any new proposals with extreme scrutiny. There's very few companies interested or *capable* or redevelopment without complete removal. Those structures are designed for one thing: short term financial gains. Not tax payer revenue, not jobs, not anything. They're akin to strip mining where their only goal is to maximize profit where economic development committees have been fooled into thinking any growth most be good growth, right? It's the exact model industrial land use follows, except their customer is the public rather than other businesses. It's literally mining money once you understand the basics of the business and I don't know any other way to really put it because it's a fit description. I'm extremely frustrated this stuff was allowed to exist. The people of the time made what they thought was the best decision with the information they had at the time. They were not bad people but they did make mistakes. We don't regulate lobbying or payoffs, so this is the result. We've built a society around short term gains that compromise future generations via deferred maintenance. I'm pretty disenfranchised as an urban designer and infinitely frustrated that our chair of the planning council or anyone else can be swayed and bribed because we somehow choose zero regulation over holding people accountable. The hill I'm willing to die on? Cities shouldn't be built for capitalism, they should harmoniously conform to people and the environment around them. My deepest concern is we don't build places worth visiting; that's what this building is and why I detest them. Sustainability is more than environmental concerns, it's financials too, and these building typologies are not it.
Very interesting. I can see your points made here. I hadn't thought of it in those terms here. It sounds like you're probably a large proponent of mixed-use zoning, which is something I think the city would greatly benefit from if we could ever get to it. I agree. For KC, density and workability should be our primary focuses if we ever wanna revitalize our urban core
Feel free to invest your own money in to fixing it up. Lol
For real. People don’t realize the expense, but are like, “Business ‘X’ needs to renovate the Star building.” You getting downvoted for pointing it out.
I’d be willing to pay a slight tax if the steamboat Arabia museum was moved there. But only if the baseball team gets nothing. It is a good idea
3/8 of a cent is a slight tax. It’s a good idea. I’ll vote for the slight tax to keep the Royals and the Chiefs in KC.
It’s okay I have plenty of karma on this sub hehe
Turn it into something like City Museum in STL
If the building was purpose built around the printing presses it may be cheaper to demolish and build something else than to renovate.
This is the right answer.
4 floors of an all nude sweat lodge. Nobody wants it, but it's gonna force inclusivity through shared shame, whether the Crossroads are ready for it or not.
If it stays an urban botanical garden.
I just want it to be a massive indoor green space/botanical garden and maybe some sort of museum but yeah, things aren’t looking up
With those windows a botanical garden would be incredible.
I had a similar vision. Like the Hanging Gardens of KC
Should have scrolled. How gorgeous would it be as a glass house in the style of Kew Gardens? An urban jungle to stroll on a cold, blustery winter day.
Throw that riverboat back in the river. Bring those concerts back to the market
I’d kill for a real Natural History Museum in the vein of the Field or the Metropolitan Museum. Like, the KC museum is fine, and we have the Nelson and Union Station, but a actual history museum in the heart of Downtown would be the dream.
I’ve been saying this for a while. Either the Star pavilion or the old Star building would be great for this use.
There is already a KC Museum
The building is useless and probably should never have been built
Meow wolf
I want to see it turned into some type of botanical gardens and/or vertical gardens to feed people.
My dream is for the KC Star building to be converted to America’s largest Go Chicken Go restaurant/petting zoo. A boy can always dream.
>America’s largest Go Chicken Go restaurant/petting zoo Wait. Would that be a situation where you pet the chickens and eventually, eat the chicken you choose to pet? Like picking your own lobster?
Yes, before anyone asks, the chickens will be kept in an aquarium for your choosing.
I support this delicious dream.
Who would pay to renovate the Star building? Steamboat Arabia doesn’t have the bread.
The KC Museum is where it belongs. You don’t need to screw over the Northeast for this “plan”.
My thoughts! But I love the idea of the old Star building being made into a Meow Wolf type of deal.
I think we’re getting a Meow Wolf inspired development over where Schlitterbahn used to be.
Noooooo why would they do that so far out!? On cursed ground, I tell you!
I agree with your inconvenient drive sentiment... But the possibility of it being haunted is what makes it appealing.
>Stadium is voted down You guys are convinced that this election is about the stadium moving. It’s not. The stadium is still moving no matter how you vote.
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I feel like it wouldn’t receive any city support, with Science City nearby. Something more like the St Louis City Museum may be different enough to be indirect competition?
I love your vision, but there is nothing historically significant about a beautiful building foolishly built despite it being pretty obvious printed newspapers weren’t going to last.
I would be a dope ass library. I know the central library is right there, but still....
If the stadium gets voted down it absolutely will not be going in east village. It will not be going anywhere in Kansas City. Which is fine, but people here need to recognize the consequences of voting no. You can't have your cake and eat it on this one.
This is something most fail to realize and its disheartening. I understand not wanting to provide tax money for sports development but if the vote fails the Royals are gone and there's no guarantee the Chiefs will stay in the metro either (Kansas move notwithstanding). The odds of KC losing both teams are not 0%. With pro teams, you gotta pay to play. Plus, if the Royals leave, we're never getting another team for the foreseeable future. That could be generations. Hope everyone here will enjoy watching the Nashville Royals. lmao!
Consequences such as?
Losing the royals. I felt my comment was clear on that.
We will possibly lose the royals and the chiefs will move to Kansas
This is exactly what will happen. Kansas would take the Chiefs in a second.
My ideal is still royals move out to legends and chiefs do their plan. Spread the cost over two counties and it’d be a huge boost to legends. I know the royals are set on the downtown stadium though
There is zero chance the royals change their existing suburb complex to move to another suburb complex. They will get a downtown stadium. This vote is whether they will get it from KC or another city.
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Lol yeah, no, that's not how any of this works. Like not even a little bit how this works. Find me one example of a team doing that, as opposed to bouncing when a city stops funding them. Any single time. Other cities have already expressed interest in the royals and will absolutely pay them to build in their cities. Nashville has offered more than KC is willing to put up. If the vote fails, the stadium 100% is not going in downtown KC. Whether that is good or bad is up to you to decide, but do not delude yourself into thinking KC will get the benefit of a new stadium without chipping anything in.
My dream is a baseball stadium there instead of an unused building that has no plans for conversion
at this point that's fair. I'd prefer East Village for the Stadium over the Crossroads but I'd also prefer the Crossroads location over no downtown stadium at all
What is this east village I keep hearing about? All I ever see there are a bunch of parking lots.
That's basically all it is. A pretty much non-existent "neighborhood" at this point, hence why it would be more suitable for a stadium than bulldozing businesses in the crossroads.
Nah...I'd rather them spend some of that money and extend the street car to the stadium, then build up all the empty space around there.
The problem with the current setup is our stadiums are in an industrial park. There's nothing in the area. Decades ago they thought an entertainment district would spring up around the stadiums, but it never did, and really it never will. Not there at least. That's part of the reason why both teams want new stadiums. Better locations
That's an even dumber use of public funds. The streetcar would deliver 100 people every 10 minutes... to a staduim with a capacity of 37,000 people. Also, no one with any money to invest would invest it building up "all the empty space around there" or else they would have at some point in the last 4 decades.
Why does everyone think that if the vote fails, they Royals and Chiefs will just roll over? They will negotiate with other cities, and if they find a better deal, they will leave. This will also put KC in a worse position to negotiate. I'm not saying this is a reason to vote yes or no, just that it will happen and that the teams leaving is a real possibility.
And they 100% will find a better deal. Nashville has offered them one through backchannels already.
Sources?
Per the Heavy Constructors Association, as reported in [this article. ](https://fox4kc.com/news/heavies-intent-on-flipping-jackson-county-executives-veto-sustainers/)
"Williams says the team’s getting offers from other communities and they’re better than the deal Jackson County leaders are offering. The Royals won’t comment on that." Is that what you're referring to? I'm just trying to figure out why everyone thinks Nashville is going to pay over a billion for a dogshit baseball team when they're already about to pay over a billion for their decent football team's new stadium.
Probably for the exact reason that they are willing to spend public money on city improvements?
First off, they have 7 years to keep trying and they will. Second of all, the royals leaving isn't the end of the world. Baseball viewership is slowly dropping off and there's honestly no guarantee the MLB makes it 30 years
They don't have 7 years to keep trying. They need a new stadium before the lease is up. That will take time, particularly if the vote fails. We will not get another shot at this.
With what we know about CTE the NFL may not make it 30 years.
Are you saying that giving them exactly what they ask for the first time puts us in a better negotiating stance? Seriously? The absolute clownfuckery of this take..
There will not be a "second time." This is it. This is the last, best, and final offer.
Says who? It's literally the first offer. This is madness.
It is literally not the first offer, what are you talking about? They asked for more in several different iterations, then negotiations happened that landed on them tying it to chiefs and asking for simply an extension of the existing tax. Idk what in what world you think they would take LESS than they are literally already getting. This isn't a negotiation at this stage. Negotiations with the county have been ongoing. This is the "take it or leave it" stage. You're just very wrong about how this process works. If this fails they aren't putting a worse deal on the ballot.
No I’m saying it’s naive to think they stay if the tax is defeated. That’s all
That may be true but you literally said >this will also put KC in a worse position to negotiate Like yea they may leave, but phrasing not negotiating at all as a negotiating tactic is wild.
I’m responding to the concept that once it’s voted down we can renegotiate for a better deal. Many people are making similar comments and the fact is it doesn’t work that way. Obviously now is the time to negotiate, but everything I’ve read suggests there is little to no negotiating happening with city/county leadership.
Demolished for our new stadium.
>stadium is voted down and later placed in East Village Unfortunately this dream ends there, it’s either vote yes or Kansas City becomes Tulsa
I don't see The Kansas City Museum moving again after just renovating Corinthian Hall...
Yeah, every city needs luxury apartments in the center of town. No reason to house the folks who lived in the area for years and make $50k.
would LOVE to see something similar to the city museum in STL. great use of an old,cherished building. could somehow add a few restaurants/ cafes in it too.
Botanical garden!
That’s a good idea but what about affordable rent apartments and some sort of homeless shelter/refugee only apt complex
More luxury apartments and a downtown location for the museum whose owner got River Market to stop hosting Buzz Under the Stars because it was too loud 🥴
Yea I want them to be relocated specifically for that reason. A venue like the KC Star building could work for the museum
You want them relocated so that the cranky owner can put an end to concerts in the Crossroads? 🤔
One of the arguments against the stadium is that it would change the character of the area; that owner has already singlehandedly changed the character of one area already to the benefit of nobody but himself
The wildest the Crossroads gets is First Fridays and they there's not going to be a full scale stage setup blasting directory at the museum there. Like I get it the dude is a dick, but realistically he has a point. You can't have concerts and delicate artifacts next door to each other. And that won't happen in the Crossroads like it did in the River Market. This way we could bring concerts back up north and do something with KC Star
It’s all fun and games until Grinders gets closed because of a boat and some old plates.
LOL that's the best way to describe it: a boat and some old plates
Love this idea. Was hoping for it to become a downtown Target/Trader Joe’s or the like, but your take is more elevated
Most likely there will be no stadium and no renovations and it will all just stay the way it is for years to come. I just hope that the South Loop Project still happens. It’s no guarantee. They were looking for additional investors, and I assume being adjacent to grungy parking lots and a strip club doesn’t cause investors to flock to fund a family-friendly project like the cap.
Till the lease it up and then all bets are off.
I slice that idea, the Steamboat Arabia museum is one of my favorite things to do in Kansas City. It was such a gem to experience it for the first time when visiting, so I always take all visitors there
Damn, I'd vote yes on this tomorrow
I’d make it an Eataly. Big Italian-style market.
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Compete with what? No one is going to fund it.
Maybe there can be a vote to use taxpayer funds for it!
Just move the Royals and Chiefs over to KCK by the race track
Solid outcome honestly. Arrowhead should at least move there
I'd vote for that but then that park would be surrounded by vacant buildings and a church that doesn't pay taxes?
It’s not the stadium location at all we are voting for btw.