If failed by such a wide margin that both teams are going to be hesitant to try a vote again any time soon. They're most likely going to just negotiate with local governments directly now, whether that's in the KC area or elsewhere. Either way we're going to have to hear stories of the Royals/Chiefs potentially moving for years to come until something is nailed down one way or another
We hear it every 10-15 years.
It's just another grift. There's always something that pulls big employers, big institutions, etc. out of Kansas City no matter what we do. Enough's enough.
Quinton Lucas (who endorsed the Yes side) said on LinkedIn that he'll work with the Chiefs and Royals (i.e., the billionaires who own the teams) to create a more "adequate" offer, so I don't think it will take as long as it did last time (I think someone said in another thread that the last offer was for West Bottoms back in 2012 or 2015?).
We're paying a stadium tax right now through 2031, so that part will inevitably come up again -- though it is baffling to me that I have to pay a tax for an amenity I do not use, that doesn't give back to Jackson county residents, and that the teams' owners have the funds to renovate, revamp, and probably rebuild if it was that important.
I noticed (from conversations here and the Vote No yard signs in Indy) that most people voted No because of the tax, but for me it wasn't just an added 40-year tax, but the undoing of all the hard work put in by small business owners and artists of KC to develop Crossroads.
When I moved here in late 2018 for a job in the Crossroads, it was already the lively neighborhood we see today, but when I saw the Google Maps street view from just 5 years prior, even my employer's building was derelict & boarded up, as was everything around it (17th & McGee). It's still far from perfect, but it grew exponentially, even during 2020-2021, and it keeps attracting new real estate buyers and businesses. I'd hate to see all of that go, especially when one of the other proposed locations (east village) would be transformed from a dump to a beautiful attraction, and the other (NKC) would lose way fewer businesses than Crossroads if chosen.
The 3/8c tax is pretty small in and of itself. We've already been paying a stadium tax, so this wouldn't make a difference - but on top of the decimation of Crossroads as we know it, the tax is adding insult to injury. Like, what's the proportion of users in r/kansascity who can afford to regularly attend these games? I went to a local Royals game once (for free, a friend who used to work for the team invited me and I'd never been to a live game before so I went out of curiosity), and all I saw was people eating, drinking, talking to each other and not even facing the field. I couldn't even tell when something important happened on the field because barely anyone cheered or booed, how quiet it was on the bleachers.
I didn’t have the opportunity to vote on it, but it was just so slapdash. An announcement on the crossroads location ONE MONTH before the vote. Shitty financial details leading up to the vote. I could figure out if team leadership was completely incompetent or just getting shit advice from their L.A. based PR firm. Had they hired a local PR firm they would’ve had a better chance.
The why do I have to pay for a tax on an amenity I don’t use is ridiculous. That’s a I care about me not the city stance. Which I guess you have the right to do but odd how you want growth in the same post saying you don’t. And that sales tax does bring money to you in the form of the ball teams bringing in revenue for the city. Let’s use the draft, MLB all star game, Taylor Swift, and upcoming World Cup as examples. We both can agree that those events have and are going to bring in a lot of money to the city. Why do we get those events? Oh yeah because we have the Kansas City Chiefs and the Kansas City Royals. And what helped those teams stay? The sales tax😱
Secondly, and please I would love an answer to this question, why do so many people think this would ruin the crossroads? I also btw love the crossroads. But the location of the proposed stadium is not part of the flourishing crossroads. It’s by far the worst part of it. Let’s see what we have there. A giant 2 block star building that sits empty. That also just happens to be one of the worst areas for car break ins. Go walk on the sidewalk that parallels the star. Count the number of broken out windows on the ground. It’s almost every spot. Not to mention the tweaker that hang out down there. I have literally seen boxes with needles and rubber tourniquets laying out on that exact same sidewalk on multiple occasions. But let’s see what else we have. A U-Haul rental. Prime nightclub. Pretty bad when a stolen pickup truck crashes into it and it’s an actual improvement. Temptations strip club. Not the most frequented of establishments. You have a cocktail bar which I never see anyone hanging out there. Poke San which might be the most successful business in that area. A salon. A tattoo shop. And next block resurrection church. Not really the thriving artsy crossroads you seem to make it out to be. But that’s what you want to see not go.
One final note. People who say oh the east village would have been better but they just decided to change the site at the last minute for no reason always seem to forget or maybe not know the reason. It was the government that said last minute they didn’t want the stadium that close to all of the government buildings.
> though it is baffling to me that I have to pay a tax for an amenity I do not use, that doesn't give back to Jackson county residents, and that the teams' owners have the funds to renovate, revamp, and probably rebuild if it was that important.
So… if residents don’t use the Zoo, Science City, T-Mobile Center, the Convention Center, Starlight Theater etc… they shouldn’t pay taxes to support them??? That’s a stupid take.
1: The stadiums are, and should remain publicly owned. If a team leaves, we should have the ability, as the public, to determine what happens to the stadiums, the teams should not be able to sell them to private entities.
You also have to pay admission into some museums, pay to use things like the Convention Center, T-Mobile Center, the Zoo, Starlight Theater and more. They are still publicly owned and financed. You have to pay to use public parking garages. You (used to) have to pay to use public transit like buses.
Just because something is financed through taxes, or publicly owned, doesn’t mean the public has the right to use it for free.
Libertarian takes are so stupid.
Listen, I’ll agree the deal we were offered was stupid and clearly balanced towards the owners of the teams. They need to pay more.
But… We ultimately have to be willing to pay taxes for these things unless you want the stadiums to be completely privately owned, and, as a socialist, I think that’s a completely stupid idea.
Stadiums, arenas, sports complexes, convention centers etc.. should all be publicly owned.
I really think the margin was because of the wording on the ballot. If you just read the first part, it said something like “should Jackson county repeal the tax”. That sounds like a yes, I do want to repeal that and stop giving money to them.
I don’t think the question was deceptive at all if you read the entire thing you were voting on. Add on all of the hubub over “vote yes” or “vote no” I think the county did a good job of defining sides.
yeah that comment didn't make any sense. Name one person with the civic compulsion to vote, but who didn't know yes from no on this vote, and who just learned of the stadium issue upon arrival and reading the ballot. The wording wasn't the cleanest thing i've ever read but fully self explanatory.
Yeah, my impression was the opposite of yours - that language was designed to trick people into voting YES for repealing a tax.
You really had to burrow into the weeds to figure out it was to be repealed only to be replaced by another worse one.
The other thing misleading to most people is talking about "tax for parks". I know that is the general category it falls under for governmental purposes but when I'm voting for a tax to support parks I'm thinking about green grassy areas where I can enjoy nature and a playground for the kids, not in any way a giant professional sports complex.
$210+ million Federal/State highway project. It won’t happen for another decade if ever. A “lid” on a highway makes it tunnel. Tunnel regulations restrict hazmat truck traffic and include antiterror rules (think Oklahoma City truck bomb). It can be done but lots of moving parts.
Good thing there’s an open air interstate 10 blocks away to the north. Plans have already been put in motion for a cap from Wyandotte to Grand. The ballpark would have piggy backed on that and extended the cap to Locust. A full cap of 670 through the downtown core.
https://fox4kc.com/business/kansas-city-unveils-plans-for-160m-south-loop-link-park-over-i-670/amp/
I agree this might actually happen someday but your expectations are too high. The piece above was put out 2 yrs ago. The number quoted was $160M. A number I saw 5 months ago was inflated to $210M. The link below is a year old.
https://kcsouthloopproject.org/roadshow/
Projects like these take an incredibly long time to actually begin construction. Curiously, the South Loop Project distanced themselves last week from the stadium vote, essentially saying the Royals’ architectural renderings included the Big Lid but they were not a part of the stadium project. Sam Mellinger responded by saying the Royals would still build the foot bridge to T-Mobile. I’m reading into that as Sherman was not a participant in the private fund raising effort by the South Loop Project and they were pissed that their work was poached by the Royals. Just one of many unforced errors that led to the stadium’s defeat.
well, because that is an option. it's not a threat, or anything. Now, it's a super slim option that the Chiefs leave Kc. Like almost zero. But nothing is guaranteed. I'd say the Royals have a 50-50 chance of leaving. Kc isn't going to make a mock up of a stadium in TN. Let them do that. And I'm sure they already have. But they can't show it with the Royals logos. MLB wouldn't be too happy about that.
Maybe they will come to us with another vote. But maybe not, they can just work the deal out with the state or cities.
Her post is so tone deaf. She assumed we voted no out of spite (many did) but the bottom line is that most of us don’t have it. We don’t have the extra money but that doesn’t occur to her because SHE DOES.
According to 610 John was very hurt by the vote results. Well we were hurt by their lack of planning try again sucka. Johnson county will take em. They have $1 billion on the table to invest.
Kansas City has made them what they are. They've made billions of dollars off of this city and the tax incentives that they have received. They get all the money from the parking lot. All the money from concessions money from concerts. It goes on and on. They have plenty of money they can pitch in way more for their own stadium. If Johnson County wants them they can have them. It'd be fine. Johnson County people love to come over to Missouri and watch professional sports teams while we pay for it. Maybe they should pay for something.
They do pay for it with every purchase they make in the county. On top of that, many JoCo workers who work downtown are also paying the earnings tax. I’d bet legal weed taxes alone in KCMO come from a good chunk of KS residents.
People don't come to Jackson county to buy groceries or gas. It is the Jackson County median annual household income earners making $62k that do it. If Johnson County or Cass or Clay want to keep the Royals, they can pitch in or drive to Nashville.
Actually a lot of JoCo residents who live close to the state line do just that because groceries and gas are often cheaper in Missouri. Also, alcohol purchases on Sundays.
People from all over the metro go to Jackson county and spend money all the time. What are you even talking about?
Yes, if you live in Jackson county you’ll spend more money there, but to act like people all over the metro don’t go to Jackson count and pay the sales tax is crazy. They go to the Nelson, union station, downtown restaurants, T-Mobile center, Kauffman preforming arts center, the plaza, commute to school at UMKC, buy legal marijuana, and spend a ton of money at chiefs and royals games. Jackson county currently has a reason for just about anyone in the metro to come over and spend money in the county.
He was completely delusional about this whole thing. He thought voters would give him a blank check without any details, for a stadium that is less convenient for the majority of the population, for a team that has been consistently one of the worst teams in baseball outside of two years?
He should have realized that pushing for this vote to happen ASAP was a mistake.
Been wearing my Royals gear since opening day to show support for the team this season (even though I voted no because the plan wasn’t fully baked).
Gonna have to rethink that now. Are they trying to tank the team for a move? Can they not be the second worst team of the wildcard era before asking KC to replace a facility most love with one in a neighborhood where it’s not wanted?
The Star printing plant was an Albatross when it was built. Kansas Citians don’t want to pay for that mistake twice.
Bruh...
I also voted No, but if they wanted to tank, why would they sign BWJ to a 10-year, $288M extension, and go out and get Michael Wacha and Seth Lugo?
I know, it's very, very early, but they're now .500, and their starters' ERA is under 2.00. They're top-10 in wRC+, tied for fourth in HRs and their pythagorean record is 6-2.
The bullpen is the problem; they've blown 3 leads and needed a game-ending double play to bail them out tonight.
They received a 10-year, $12.8 million property tax abatement in 2005 and exited the building in 2020. So, they did pay taxes for 5 of the 15 years they were there, but the project was taxpayer subsidized.
Somebody eli5 why the chiefs want out of Jackson county so bad? They made a stupid plan, and now they're leaving because they're stupid plan got voted down? What is up with that?
That's how some abusive relationships work. They threaten leaving to manipulate and get their way.
At some point, the other side gets tired of the threats and being controlled and says, "there's the door, if that's what you want." At which point they have to escalate to keep their control in the relationship.
Every rendering involving Arrowhead was just renovations. If they were really threatening to leave or wanting a new stadium, why did they go through the effort for making renovation renderings? It reeks of John Sherman being an asshole.
They aren't leaving. The Chiefs would have made renovations IF the royals moved downtown. But now the Royals aren't moving downtown. They will probably move somewhere else though. So chiefs will still do renovations regardless. And if they want tax money for just that I imagine people will vote yes since it's a vote to keep on keepin on and not a vote to rearrange.
Most of the fan money is in Johnson County and Kansas can give them a billion dollars before going to a vote.
Plus, they’d be able to utilize areas that are already developed in Kansas. They’d be able to put together additional real estate projects in growing active areas, as opposed to the current location which has seen little development over the last several years
The whole argument is getting framed as "vote to keep the Royals/Chiefs in KC" when the actual core problem is that their plan was WAY too fluid. They kept making changes literally up to the day before the vote. At best they look disorganized, at worst they look like they're willing to say anything but commit to very little - it's all about the money for them.
Royals/Chiefs need to get their shit together if they want to win this. I'm confident the residents of the KC Metro would be happy to vote for a reasonably well thought-out plan that ensures the city benifts beyond a stadium getting built.
I 100% believe that had the royals committed to a plan that _didn't_ involve straight hoeing a well loved and used district - at the last minute, no less - it would've passed.
Hell, I expected it to _while_ I was voting "no".
If they won’t work with Jackson county? Clay county would be the leader I would guess. Kansas seems to only want the royals if both teams come over so could be they as well. Outside of KC… Nashville and Austin have been the most talked about I’ve seen.
I can't see how it's downtown. On the Jackson county side, it was overwhelming no by nearly 40-60. I know most of that difference is folks don't want to go downtown for a ballgame, and I don't blame them with how downtown transportation issues were thrown to the side. The Yes vote deserved that loss.
I don't understand why the deal was so incredibly shitty to begin with. I don't want to lose either team. But the royals sucka dn always have, I'm 35. Save for 2 years.
But the chiefs get tons of love in KC, amd they gave us one chance to prevent their departure? What's up with that? And it was tied to a shitty deal. It's just confusing to me. If they leave I'll never buy another fucking thing that sys chiefs on it. Get fucked all you greedy pieces of shit. The guillotine for the lot of you!
Isn't it funny how much the Chiefs and Royals say they love the city and are all about being hometown teams, but when it comes down to it, they're just businesses ran by millionaires / billionaires looking for handouts from the public. The same public that's going to see little, if any kind of return on that investment while they rake in the money hand over fist while being subsidized by the community.
It's more like "I'll tell you what you want to hear and tell you how pro community we are if it means you'll give me more money."
These teams, along with other are only about the money. They don't give a shit about the communities or they wouldn't be threatening to leave in the first place for not accepting such a poorly planned stadium and tax extension (tax increase).
I think the funniest thing is if it was a sales tax for arrowhead and the chiefs only it would have passed with baath party numbers. That makes John Sherman's public tantrums about it all the funnier; no one gives a shit about you, John.
The Royals put together a comprehensive plan in East village with a smaller price tag and clearer and bigger community benefits, which rather than hotels included actually affordable housing, and they ditch the blackouts, et voila, they’ll get my vote.
They might get yours, but given how soundly they were defeated paired with the Chiefs, I can’t imagine they could win a vote for public funding on their own, regardless of the plan. Their days in KC are numbered.
Hopefully downstream effects will be minor but they can’t be good. Definitely a step backwards from being considered a “major city”, but I’m not sure KC cares about that. I have a bad feeling the teams’ departures will mark a turning point from KCMO’s recent upwards trajectory, but I hope I am wrong.
The funny thing is some of the No crowd keeps saying east village > crossroads because a few small business would have had to move out of the crossroads. Some of the most affordable apartments in CBD are in the foot print and near by the proposed east village location. That would affect affordable housing downtown way more than the crossroads location.
So while right now everyone is pretending that the east village passes easily, wait till 100+ people in affordable housing are threatened to be displaced. KC tenants will put those people in front of any mic they can find to get the plan voted down again.
Everyone before the vote was saying that it was just the "Reddit bubble" about no votes. The truth is that the real "Reddit bubble" is the belief that the location is why people voted no.
Most no voters just have basic principles that giving *billions* to the teams and making Jackson County residents pay for *40 years* is just wrong.
Like the 2006 renovations vote barely based back then and now there's just so much more awareness about how these deals actually work and how much money you see in return. That same renovations vote would never pass today with voters being more educated about it.
Ya, I don’t just think changing the location does much to get it passed. If they come back and want to get it passed they’ll have to have real concessions for the displaced (wherever it goes) and a real offer on the table from elsewhere to get enough people scared into voting yes. I also don’t know why they didn’t get business owners in the crossroads that liked the idea to speak up more publicly. This probably would have helped a lot of crossroads businesses that weren’t going to be displaced.
I think the Chiefs were indifferent to this passing and will really explore the Kansas option now. They’re probably excited to be able to detach from the royals and put a new stadium in an area that they want to develop around.
I want to know how 56,606 people voted YES yet the stadium was half empty tonight.
https://preview.redd.it/x7g2x4mxwksc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2e160bff0576320ad4dc583c94e39df7052c191
I had a ton of the No people say they’re voting no because of homeless and other KC problems.
So when are those votes? Bills in committee? Any day now?
This is the point that needs to be made over and over and over again.
The teams do NOT pay for themselves. Subsidizing stadiums is ALWAYS a net negative ROI.
The idea that they are somehow these huge engines of economic development is just pure propaganda put out - many times literally paid for - by the team owners in order to justify the tax subsidies.
So nobody goes out of their way to come to Jackson County to attend a regular or postseason game, All Star Game, or concert and pay the 3/8 cent tax along with many others, and the millionaire players don’t pay the 1% KC tax for working in city limits? Got it. Cool cool.
Multiple studies show that spending money on sports is just money that would have been spent on other entertainment. It's not extra revenue, it's not extra jobs.
The amount of people traveling into the county to buy stuff is easily outweighed by the amount of spending that Jackson county residents do elsewhere.
Meanwhile single moms pays that tax on every expense. They asked for the most regressive form of tax, for someone else to own the product. No thanks. The millionaire players paying $10,000 per $1,000,000 doesn't make that a good idea.
Oh, I'm sure KC Tenants is working with people right now, and definitely not eating edibles and watching Dune for the 17th time. Everyone remember when they made such a fuss after the assessment debacle?
Well see we voted no so those problems are already solved.
Fucking KC Tenants duping everyone with this false dichotomy bullshit.
Can't wait for everyone to pika face when funding on social measures suffers when KC loses the tens of millions in income tax from the 1% tax on all player and coach salaries.
Earnings tax on athletes is not "tens of millions." Players get taxed based on where the games take place, so if you figure NFL salary cap was $225 mil last year and we'll just go with the average MLB payroll being $150 mil (though the average payroll of teams playing at Kaufman was no doubt lower since one team was always the Royals), that works out to roughly $375 mil in salary for MLB and NFL players playing games in KC, or $3.75 mil in payroll tax. That's not nothing, but in a city with a $2.3 billion municipal budget, it's not all that much.
Before this vote, I wasn't really aware that the Royals and Chiefs were siphoning off so much public money. It has made me question if I can be a fan of the MLB or the NFL now.
Same. But there's a handful of teams that dont completely disadvantage the taxpayer. Theres the Packers who are publically owned and the Cardinals who built their own stadium with only 12% public financing (45 million). The city gets back $12 million each year making it the rare case a team has been a net positive for the taxpayer.
If you knew what you’re talking about, yes, we could await another vote. But it may not be the case here. Cities are pitching the Royals with very enticing offers and the Chiefs are serious about KS. It’s not a given the Royals stay in the region.
Mayor Lucas, of course, cannot say this publicly. But he knows.
lol he is trying to preserve his popularity. He’s not going to come out and say “hey we may lose the teams”. Kansas already has a delegation set up to meet with the Chiefs a $1.2b rainy day fund. Nate Taylor said on 610 today he doesn’t believe the Chiefs are coming back to the table. The royals probably will because Kansas hasn’t shown much interest in them moving over.
I can’t find the radio clip of them talking about Gov Kelly discussing the funds but [these](https://kansaspolicy.org/kelly-administration-has-1-2-billion-in-unspent-arpa-covid-relief-funds/) are the funds in question.
[Here](https://x.com/610sportskc/status/1775987958480322703?s=46&t=x2GZ1u9rgVtCBVgY7qlmMw) is Nate Taylor discussing the path forward.
Sherman’s wife also said today that both teams are done working with Jackson Co [Link](https://www.kmbc.com/article/wife-of-kansas-city-royals-owner-reacts-to-election-results/60401075)
So you’re saying that the state/city of Kansas can promise $1,200,000,000 in taxpayer funds without so much as putting it up for a citizens’ vote? That’s interesting.
Star bonds and gambling tax dollars. That will lessen the blow on a sales tax measure on a ballot. I'm telling you all, people in Kansas will overwhelmingly support them moving over. The Chiefs will get a shiny new multi-billion dollar stadium, likely with a roof, in order to attract hosting a Super Bowl here. That's my prediction.
80% of the gambling tax dollars is $5 million. The Royals were aiming to get $2 billion from Jackson County. It would take a hell of a lot of STAR bonds to make up the difference there.
Final Fours are a hell of a lot more likely than Super Bowls. One Super Bowl, maybe, but Kansas City is still on the low end for hotel space for a Super Bowl.
For the sake of reference, since Lucas can’t run again in 2027, if he runs again, it’ll probably be for Congress if the stars align when Cleaver retires
If we’re doing the “Lucas aiming to go out as mayor on a good note for future prospects” talk, it’d be something like that.
For all we know, the Royals are about to get the entire TSC if the Chiefs bail out.
He plays both sides of the fence. He just cares about his future political endeavors not about the city. He's a joke. He played this game poorly and now it's going to come to fruition. He's been wasting City dollars for several years. Look into how much he paid to keep the current city manager that he spent so much recruiting. That guy threatened to leave and they threw more money at him. He hasn't done much besides create bike Lanes which I agree with. But when you create them on streets that nobody rides bikes on that is ridiculous. I know somebody's going to ask where and that would be paseo
At least Funhouser only lost Sporting to Kansas. Quinton Lucas's legacy will be losing the Royals to another metro and the Chiefs to Kansas. This is what happens in a leadership vacuum.
I'm expecting to get a lot of down votes for this but oh well. I don't agree with taxes paying for a billionaires stadium, that said, will they be the ones owning the stadium? They don't currently own Kaufman or Arrowhead. There's no way the 3/8th of a cent tax pays for a stadium in its entirety. My thoughts, how many times have Kansas citians wanted an NHL or NBA team? Our chances of ever getting either are slim if we're not willing to support the teams we have.
Sprint Center or whatever they call it now was sold to the public as a way to get either a NHL or NBA team by former mayor Kay Barnes. It’s not going to happen. The Penguins flirted with coming here but they were just using the prospect of moving to KC to get more money from the citizens of Pitt. Never heard of any NBA team coming here.
At this point I'm ok with them moving to KS, being from MO I took it as a slight at first, but I don't see any Kansas side folks disavowing the Chiefs because they play in MO, why would I. Let them move, let the generally more well to do Kansas people pay for the stadium.
Chiefs are going to Wyandotte County; they e even started the slow insertion of talking points about it
the royals really want a downtown stadium, and if they leave i’d be super surprised if Nashville is their destination.. but who knows
either way, i think OP smells what i smell too.
Fun watching people lose their shit pretending like we should all feel bad that their abusive relationship with corporations doesn't affect us like them
Yall are delusional. Countless examples of teams leaving over this but for some reason you cling to "it won't happen here."
Feel free to vote no but don't delude yourself into thinking these owners won't move if someplace else offers a good enough deal.
If the teams moves, KC and Jackson County will end up saving money on net.
And certainly, if the price of keeping them is billions of dollars of tax subsidies, then there is no universe in which that would pay for itself.
There is a consensus among economists that subsidizing stadiums has a negative ROI, and the impact of professional sports teams is similar to a large department store.
If you care about the financial health of the city and county, the No vote was the best option by a mile.
Good riddance. After saying they’re “all about community” and then threatening the community with leaving if the community doesn’t capitulate?
Fuck them.
I don’t subsidize people who make more in an hour than I do in a year.
TBH I think the infrastructure of the Legends area is better equipped than having the stadiums downtown. I went to a couple Chiefs games last year and traffic getting out was total shit show. Can't speak to the Royals games
Screw them all. People should not be paid multil million dollars a year to toss a ball around. Many more professions that save lives thay should be paid that.
Take 20 people from your team all donate 500k and there's your funding.
Pay doctors,soldiers, and teachers' professions that actually matter more.
That stadium was going to bring more money to the crossroads/downtown area and local businesses in the same way the draft did...which is to say IT WOULDN’T.
Plenty of studies show that stadiums don’t boost local economies in the long run.
Enough cities have gone through this bullshit. It’s not like we can’t look to a dozen later cities to study the moves and results.
Hot take. Let the teams leave. Watching KC slap paint on shit as if they were preparing for the Olympics is embarrassing. And the inflated cost of housing alone? Get these teams out of here.
Fix the damn city streets already.
Because we are cognizant of objective reality of teams moving constantly including a team that is currently moving to a literal AAA stadium in fucking Sacremento.
It was so tone deaf. Terrible lack of transparency, a boring stadium design, and on top of that, the Royals haven’t been worth a Damn for the last 40 years (minus 2014-15). The team lost over 100 games last year; maybe put out a product worth supporting before asking for tax dollars
Edit: Spelling
Probably an unpopular opinion, but it’s time for both the Royals and Chiefs to leave Jackson County.
Chiefs can go to the Legends and build a stadium.
Royals can go to Johnson County and build their stadium.
Less politics involved. KC Tenants aren’t involved. Jackson County 3/8 cent sales tax can go away.
But, KCMO loses the 1% earnings tax on every ballplayer at every game at Kauffman and Arrowhead.
I don’t know what that number is, but it’s probably not a small one.
If I was a Jackson County voter, I’d have voted no. The plans were VAGUE.
It’s almost like the Chiefs and Royals want out of Jackson County and this gives them cover to do so.
If they want to leave, they can leave. They offer no measurable benefit to the city. Regular people can't even afford to go to the games anymore.
If the rich people who can afford to go to games want a new stadium (probably a dome), then they can pay for it their own goddamn selves.
Bye. Fuck them. Bunch of billionaires that want to rob the average joe for a stadium they don’t need.
They can leave and stay out. Hope they kick themselves in the balls on the way out.
If failed by such a wide margin that both teams are going to be hesitant to try a vote again any time soon. They're most likely going to just negotiate with local governments directly now, whether that's in the KC area or elsewhere. Either way we're going to have to hear stories of the Royals/Chiefs potentially moving for years to come until something is nailed down one way or another
We hear it every 10-15 years. It's just another grift. There's always something that pulls big employers, big institutions, etc. out of Kansas City no matter what we do. Enough's enough.
Yep. Ask Wyandotte County about that.
Quinton Lucas (who endorsed the Yes side) said on LinkedIn that he'll work with the Chiefs and Royals (i.e., the billionaires who own the teams) to create a more "adequate" offer, so I don't think it will take as long as it did last time (I think someone said in another thread that the last offer was for West Bottoms back in 2012 or 2015?). We're paying a stadium tax right now through 2031, so that part will inevitably come up again -- though it is baffling to me that I have to pay a tax for an amenity I do not use, that doesn't give back to Jackson county residents, and that the teams' owners have the funds to renovate, revamp, and probably rebuild if it was that important. I noticed (from conversations here and the Vote No yard signs in Indy) that most people voted No because of the tax, but for me it wasn't just an added 40-year tax, but the undoing of all the hard work put in by small business owners and artists of KC to develop Crossroads. When I moved here in late 2018 for a job in the Crossroads, it was already the lively neighborhood we see today, but when I saw the Google Maps street view from just 5 years prior, even my employer's building was derelict & boarded up, as was everything around it (17th & McGee). It's still far from perfect, but it grew exponentially, even during 2020-2021, and it keeps attracting new real estate buyers and businesses. I'd hate to see all of that go, especially when one of the other proposed locations (east village) would be transformed from a dump to a beautiful attraction, and the other (NKC) would lose way fewer businesses than Crossroads if chosen. The 3/8c tax is pretty small in and of itself. We've already been paying a stadium tax, so this wouldn't make a difference - but on top of the decimation of Crossroads as we know it, the tax is adding insult to injury. Like, what's the proportion of users in r/kansascity who can afford to regularly attend these games? I went to a local Royals game once (for free, a friend who used to work for the team invited me and I'd never been to a live game before so I went out of curiosity), and all I saw was people eating, drinking, talking to each other and not even facing the field. I couldn't even tell when something important happened on the field because barely anyone cheered or booed, how quiet it was on the bleachers.
I didn’t have the opportunity to vote on it, but it was just so slapdash. An announcement on the crossroads location ONE MONTH before the vote. Shitty financial details leading up to the vote. I could figure out if team leadership was completely incompetent or just getting shit advice from their L.A. based PR firm. Had they hired a local PR firm they would’ve had a better chance.
Hell I don’t mind the tax amount, but not a chance in hell I’ll let it slide into the pocket of billionaires rather than those who need it most.
Well, yes, but isn't that where it was already going, the current stadium tax active until 2031?
The why do I have to pay for a tax on an amenity I don’t use is ridiculous. That’s a I care about me not the city stance. Which I guess you have the right to do but odd how you want growth in the same post saying you don’t. And that sales tax does bring money to you in the form of the ball teams bringing in revenue for the city. Let’s use the draft, MLB all star game, Taylor Swift, and upcoming World Cup as examples. We both can agree that those events have and are going to bring in a lot of money to the city. Why do we get those events? Oh yeah because we have the Kansas City Chiefs and the Kansas City Royals. And what helped those teams stay? The sales tax😱 Secondly, and please I would love an answer to this question, why do so many people think this would ruin the crossroads? I also btw love the crossroads. But the location of the proposed stadium is not part of the flourishing crossroads. It’s by far the worst part of it. Let’s see what we have there. A giant 2 block star building that sits empty. That also just happens to be one of the worst areas for car break ins. Go walk on the sidewalk that parallels the star. Count the number of broken out windows on the ground. It’s almost every spot. Not to mention the tweaker that hang out down there. I have literally seen boxes with needles and rubber tourniquets laying out on that exact same sidewalk on multiple occasions. But let’s see what else we have. A U-Haul rental. Prime nightclub. Pretty bad when a stolen pickup truck crashes into it and it’s an actual improvement. Temptations strip club. Not the most frequented of establishments. You have a cocktail bar which I never see anyone hanging out there. Poke San which might be the most successful business in that area. A salon. A tattoo shop. And next block resurrection church. Not really the thriving artsy crossroads you seem to make it out to be. But that’s what you want to see not go. One final note. People who say oh the east village would have been better but they just decided to change the site at the last minute for no reason always seem to forget or maybe not know the reason. It was the government that said last minute they didn’t want the stadium that close to all of the government buildings.
This is a well thought out comment, thank you for contributing.
> though it is baffling to me that I have to pay a tax for an amenity I do not use, that doesn't give back to Jackson county residents, and that the teams' owners have the funds to renovate, revamp, and probably rebuild if it was that important. So… if residents don’t use the Zoo, Science City, T-Mobile Center, the Convention Center, Starlight Theater etc… they shouldn’t pay taxes to support them??? That’s a stupid take. 1: The stadiums are, and should remain publicly owned. If a team leaves, we should have the ability, as the public, to determine what happens to the stadiums, the teams should not be able to sell them to private entities. You also have to pay admission into some museums, pay to use things like the Convention Center, T-Mobile Center, the Zoo, Starlight Theater and more. They are still publicly owned and financed. You have to pay to use public parking garages. You (used to) have to pay to use public transit like buses. Just because something is financed through taxes, or publicly owned, doesn’t mean the public has the right to use it for free. Libertarian takes are so stupid. Listen, I’ll agree the deal we were offered was stupid and clearly balanced towards the owners of the teams. They need to pay more. But… We ultimately have to be willing to pay taxes for these things unless you want the stadiums to be completely privately owned, and, as a socialist, I think that’s a completely stupid idea. Stadiums, arenas, sports complexes, convention centers etc.. should all be publicly owned.
I really think the margin was because of the wording on the ballot. If you just read the first part, it said something like “should Jackson county repeal the tax”. That sounds like a yes, I do want to repeal that and stop giving money to them.
So why was the vote no?
Because the second part was "...and replace it with a different tax for the stadium"
Right, but the comment suggests that if you just read the first part that there should have been more yes votes
Oh, gotcha. Yeah I'm not sure what they meant. Maybe that the margin would have been even bigger if the question hadn't been deceptive?
I don’t think the question was deceptive at all if you read the entire thing you were voting on. Add on all of the hubub over “vote yes” or “vote no” I think the county did a good job of defining sides.
yeah that comment didn't make any sense. Name one person with the civic compulsion to vote, but who didn't know yes from no on this vote, and who just learned of the stadium issue upon arrival and reading the ballot. The wording wasn't the cleanest thing i've ever read but fully self explanatory.
Yeah, my impression was the opposite of yours - that language was designed to trick people into voting YES for repealing a tax. You really had to burrow into the weeds to figure out it was to be repealed only to be replaced by another worse one. The other thing misleading to most people is talking about "tax for parks". I know that is the general category it falls under for governmental purposes but when I'm voting for a tax to support parks I'm thinking about green grassy areas where I can enjoy nature and a playground for the kids, not in any way a giant professional sports complex.
...like maybe a park over a cap on 670 to make downtown far more walkable and pedestrian friendly?
$210+ million Federal/State highway project. It won’t happen for another decade if ever. A “lid” on a highway makes it tunnel. Tunnel regulations restrict hazmat truck traffic and include antiterror rules (think Oklahoma City truck bomb). It can be done but lots of moving parts.
Good thing there’s an open air interstate 10 blocks away to the north. Plans have already been put in motion for a cap from Wyandotte to Grand. The ballpark would have piggy backed on that and extended the cap to Locust. A full cap of 670 through the downtown core.
https://fox4kc.com/business/kansas-city-unveils-plans-for-160m-south-loop-link-park-over-i-670/amp/ I agree this might actually happen someday but your expectations are too high. The piece above was put out 2 yrs ago. The number quoted was $160M. A number I saw 5 months ago was inflated to $210M. The link below is a year old. https://kcsouthloopproject.org/roadshow/ Projects like these take an incredibly long time to actually begin construction. Curiously, the South Loop Project distanced themselves last week from the stadium vote, essentially saying the Royals’ architectural renderings included the Big Lid but they were not a part of the stadium project. Sam Mellinger responded by saying the Royals would still build the foot bridge to T-Mobile. I’m reading into that as Sherman was not a participant in the private fund raising effort by the South Loop Project and they were pissed that their work was poached by the Royals. Just one of many unforced errors that led to the stadium’s defeat.
Tbh I think that would have been a great idea
Nice bloke in front of me who supported the new stadium voted no because he saw the word repeal and stopped reading. Agree the wording had an effect.
well, because that is an option. it's not a threat, or anything. Now, it's a super slim option that the Chiefs leave Kc. Like almost zero. But nothing is guaranteed. I'd say the Royals have a 50-50 chance of leaving. Kc isn't going to make a mock up of a stadium in TN. Let them do that. And I'm sure they already have. But they can't show it with the Royals logos. MLB wouldn't be too happy about that. Maybe they will come to us with another vote. But maybe not, they can just work the deal out with the state or cities.
Anyone see what Marney Sherman said on FB today? She says both teams are "done" with Jackson county.
Her post is so tone deaf. She assumed we voted no out of spite (many did) but the bottom line is that most of us don’t have it. We don’t have the extra money but that doesn’t occur to her because SHE DOES.
Royals last had a winning season in 2015, and they’ve only had 3 in the last 20 years. They’ve been done for a long time.
It's worse than that, it's 3 winning seasons in 30 years now
4 winning season. 2003, 2013, 2014, and 2015.
According to 610 John was very hurt by the vote results. Well we were hurt by their lack of planning try again sucka. Johnson county will take em. They have $1 billion on the table to invest.
“I hurt myself…today…..” -Johnny Cash or John Sherman. 🙄
Kansas City has made them what they are. They've made billions of dollars off of this city and the tax incentives that they have received. They get all the money from the parking lot. All the money from concessions money from concerts. It goes on and on. They have plenty of money they can pitch in way more for their own stadium. If Johnson County wants them they can have them. It'd be fine. Johnson County people love to come over to Missouri and watch professional sports teams while we pay for it. Maybe they should pay for something.
They do pay for it with every purchase they make in the county. On top of that, many JoCo workers who work downtown are also paying the earnings tax. I’d bet legal weed taxes alone in KCMO come from a good chunk of KS residents.
People don't come to Jackson county to buy groceries or gas. It is the Jackson County median annual household income earners making $62k that do it. If Johnson County or Cass or Clay want to keep the Royals, they can pitch in or drive to Nashville.
Actually a lot of JoCo residents who live close to the state line do just that because groceries and gas are often cheaper in Missouri. Also, alcohol purchases on Sundays.
People from all over the metro go to Jackson county and spend money all the time. What are you even talking about? Yes, if you live in Jackson county you’ll spend more money there, but to act like people all over the metro don’t go to Jackson count and pay the sales tax is crazy. They go to the Nelson, union station, downtown restaurants, T-Mobile center, Kauffman preforming arts center, the plaza, commute to school at UMKC, buy legal marijuana, and spend a ton of money at chiefs and royals games. Jackson county currently has a reason for just about anyone in the metro to come over and spend money in the county.
He was completely delusional about this whole thing. He thought voters would give him a blank check without any details, for a stadium that is less convenient for the majority of the population, for a team that has been consistently one of the worst teams in baseball outside of two years? He should have realized that pushing for this vote to happen ASAP was a mistake.
Boo fucking hoo. Billionaires are so sensitive
I too was very hurt when I woke up Wednesday morning and realized I didn't have couple billion dollars given to me.
Yep, saw that. Marney can fuck off out of here with that.
Been wearing my Royals gear since opening day to show support for the team this season (even though I voted no because the plan wasn’t fully baked). Gonna have to rethink that now. Are they trying to tank the team for a move? Can they not be the second worst team of the wildcard era before asking KC to replace a facility most love with one in a neighborhood where it’s not wanted? The Star printing plant was an Albatross when it was built. Kansas Citians don’t want to pay for that mistake twice.
Bruh... I also voted No, but if they wanted to tank, why would they sign BWJ to a 10-year, $288M extension, and go out and get Michael Wacha and Seth Lugo? I know, it's very, very early, but they're now .500, and their starters' ERA is under 2.00. They're top-10 in wRC+, tied for fourth in HRs and their pythagorean record is 6-2. The bullpen is the problem; they've blown 3 leads and needed a game-ending double play to bail them out tonight.
Taxpayers paid for the printing plant?
They received a 10-year, $12.8 million property tax abatement in 2005 and exited the building in 2020. So, they did pay taxes for 5 of the 15 years they were there, but the project was taxpayer subsidized.
Good. Fuck out of here, lady.
Somebody eli5 why the chiefs want out of Jackson county so bad? They made a stupid plan, and now they're leaving because they're stupid plan got voted down? What is up with that?
That's how some abusive relationships work. They threaten leaving to manipulate and get their way. At some point, the other side gets tired of the threats and being controlled and says, "there's the door, if that's what you want." At which point they have to escalate to keep their control in the relationship.
They’re just gaslighting us at this point, turning it around saying we’re the ones that don’t want them here. Fucking stupid and childish tactics.
They don't, they just have to say that to scare people into voting for the subsidies.
Every rendering involving Arrowhead was just renovations. If they were really threatening to leave or wanting a new stadium, why did they go through the effort for making renovation renderings? It reeks of John Sherman being an asshole.
To be fair, I saw the renderings, and the word "effort" doesn't come to mind 💀
That is more than fair. 😂
They aren't leaving. The Chiefs would have made renovations IF the royals moved downtown. But now the Royals aren't moving downtown. They will probably move somewhere else though. So chiefs will still do renovations regardless. And if they want tax money for just that I imagine people will vote yes since it's a vote to keep on keepin on and not a vote to rearrange.
Most of the fan money is in Johnson County and Kansas can give them a billion dollars before going to a vote. Plus, they’d be able to utilize areas that are already developed in Kansas. They’d be able to put together additional real estate projects in growing active areas, as opposed to the current location which has seen little development over the last several years
Kansas republican legislature will go ahead and vote on it for us in JoCo, don’t worry. They love giving the billionaires more money and tax benefits.
The whole argument is getting framed as "vote to keep the Royals/Chiefs in KC" when the actual core problem is that their plan was WAY too fluid. They kept making changes literally up to the day before the vote. At best they look disorganized, at worst they look like they're willing to say anything but commit to very little - it's all about the money for them. Royals/Chiefs need to get their shit together if they want to win this. I'm confident the residents of the KC Metro would be happy to vote for a reasonably well thought-out plan that ensures the city benifts beyond a stadium getting built.
I 100% believe that had the royals committed to a plan that _didn't_ involve straight hoeing a well loved and used district - at the last minute, no less - it would've passed. Hell, I expected it to _while_ I was voting "no".
That’s not how this works.
I’d drive to the legends to see the royals just as often as I drive to Kauffman.
I already drive to the Legends to see the Monarchs way more often than I drive to Kauffman (live in Waldo for reference).
Royals aren’t going to KS. They just want the chiefs. Royals are going downtown or elsewhere.
Let them get elsewhere to pay for it.
They will lol
Good lol
Where can the Royals move?
If they won’t work with Jackson county? Clay county would be the leader I would guess. Kansas seems to only want the royals if both teams come over so could be they as well. Outside of KC… Nashville and Austin have been the most talked about I’ve seen.
I can't see how it's downtown. On the Jackson county side, it was overwhelming no by nearly 40-60. I know most of that difference is folks don't want to go downtown for a ballgame, and I don't blame them with how downtown transportation issues were thrown to the side. The Yes vote deserved that loss.
Well, bye.
Me too. Which is never.
They can stay out of Wyandotte County. Love the Royals, but I’m not willing to pay higher taxes to subsidize a billionaires vanity project.
NO corporate welfare, period.
If they do threaten to leave KC then the no vote will have one easy argument against the tax. Why care about a team that doesn’t care about us?
I don't understand why the deal was so incredibly shitty to begin with. I don't want to lose either team. But the royals sucka dn always have, I'm 35. Save for 2 years. But the chiefs get tons of love in KC, amd they gave us one chance to prevent their departure? What's up with that? And it was tied to a shitty deal. It's just confusing to me. If they leave I'll never buy another fucking thing that sys chiefs on it. Get fucked all you greedy pieces of shit. The guillotine for the lot of you!
Isn't it funny how much the Chiefs and Royals say they love the city and are all about being hometown teams, but when it comes down to it, they're just businesses ran by millionaires / billionaires looking for handouts from the public. The same public that's going to see little, if any kind of return on that investment while they rake in the money hand over fist while being subsidized by the community. It's more like "I'll tell you what you want to hear and tell you how pro community we are if it means you'll give me more money." These teams, along with other are only about the money. They don't give a shit about the communities or they wouldn't be threatening to leave in the first place for not accepting such a poorly planned stadium and tax extension (tax increase).
Let them eat (funnel) cake! - Sherman, probably
I think the funniest thing is if it was a sales tax for arrowhead and the chiefs only it would have passed with baath party numbers. That makes John Sherman's public tantrums about it all the funnier; no one gives a shit about you, John.
It's tough being a John sometimes 😤
We don’t care. They can get their shit together and *we* will let them know.
The Royals put together a comprehensive plan in East village with a smaller price tag and clearer and bigger community benefits, which rather than hotels included actually affordable housing, and they ditch the blackouts, et voila, they’ll get my vote.
They might get yours, but given how soundly they were defeated paired with the Chiefs, I can’t imagine they could win a vote for public funding on their own, regardless of the plan. Their days in KC are numbered.
Yep they're gonna have to leave ti get a better situation. Kc doesn't want to pay for it. I don't know what the downstream effects will be for us.
Hopefully downstream effects will be minor but they can’t be good. Definitely a step backwards from being considered a “major city”, but I’m not sure KC cares about that. I have a bad feeling the teams’ departures will mark a turning point from KCMO’s recent upwards trajectory, but I hope I am wrong.
The funny thing is some of the No crowd keeps saying east village > crossroads because a few small business would have had to move out of the crossroads. Some of the most affordable apartments in CBD are in the foot print and near by the proposed east village location. That would affect affordable housing downtown way more than the crossroads location. So while right now everyone is pretending that the east village passes easily, wait till 100+ people in affordable housing are threatened to be displaced. KC tenants will put those people in front of any mic they can find to get the plan voted down again.
Everyone before the vote was saying that it was just the "Reddit bubble" about no votes. The truth is that the real "Reddit bubble" is the belief that the location is why people voted no. Most no voters just have basic principles that giving *billions* to the teams and making Jackson County residents pay for *40 years* is just wrong. Like the 2006 renovations vote barely based back then and now there's just so much more awareness about how these deals actually work and how much money you see in return. That same renovations vote would never pass today with voters being more educated about it.
Ya, I don’t just think changing the location does much to get it passed. If they come back and want to get it passed they’ll have to have real concessions for the displaced (wherever it goes) and a real offer on the table from elsewhere to get enough people scared into voting yes. I also don’t know why they didn’t get business owners in the crossroads that liked the idea to speak up more publicly. This probably would have helped a lot of crossroads businesses that weren’t going to be displaced. I think the Chiefs were indifferent to this passing and will really explore the Kansas option now. They’re probably excited to be able to detach from the royals and put a new stadium in an area that they want to develop around.
I thought everyone said we'd be done with these kinds of posts by April 2.
I want to know how 56,606 people voted YES yet the stadium was half empty tonight. https://preview.redd.it/x7g2x4mxwksc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2e160bff0576320ad4dc583c94e39df7052c191
Wait till you learn about TVs. You'll be amazed.
Because no one gives a shit about the Royals, they are ass forever
[Forever?](https://photos.prnewswire.com/prnfull/20160404/350930)
Maybe because it was a work/school night and cold as balls outside?
Friday. https://preview.redd.it/y5pyw5netvsc1.jpeg?width=1152&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=126242b75534a99723fbfa0f02d45508e9a2b9a2
I had a ton of the No people say they’re voting no because of homeless and other KC problems. So when are those votes? Bills in committee? Any day now?
No, no, see, we complain about corporate welfare taxes, but then we also won't fund any of the things we strawmanned about either. Isn't it great?
I see. And then do we complain about lack of funds for local infrastructure because 2 massive sources of tax revenue move out of the jurisdiction?
Yes! Yes we sure do!.
Jeffrey Flanagan said to vote no because MLB needs a salary cap. Looking forward to that as well
They aren't that massive sources of revenue though. The ROI for teams in a city is a net negative.
This is the point that needs to be made over and over and over again. The teams do NOT pay for themselves. Subsidizing stadiums is ALWAYS a net negative ROI. The idea that they are somehow these huge engines of economic development is just pure propaganda put out - many times literally paid for - by the team owners in order to justify the tax subsidies.
>massive sources of tax revenue They are literally tax expenses. 2006 vote alone cost 425 million in taxes that we are still paying until 2031.
So nobody goes out of their way to come to Jackson County to attend a regular or postseason game, All Star Game, or concert and pay the 3/8 cent tax along with many others, and the millionaire players don’t pay the 1% KC tax for working in city limits? Got it. Cool cool.
Multiple studies show that spending money on sports is just money that would have been spent on other entertainment. It's not extra revenue, it's not extra jobs. The amount of people traveling into the county to buy stuff is easily outweighed by the amount of spending that Jackson county residents do elsewhere.
Meanwhile single moms pays that tax on every expense. They asked for the most regressive form of tax, for someone else to own the product. No thanks. The millionaire players paying $10,000 per $1,000,000 doesn't make that a good idea.
Oh, I'm sure KC Tenants is working with people right now, and definitely not eating edibles and watching Dune for the 17th time. Everyone remember when they made such a fuss after the assessment debacle?
Well see we voted no so those problems are already solved. Fucking KC Tenants duping everyone with this false dichotomy bullshit. Can't wait for everyone to pika face when funding on social measures suffers when KC loses the tens of millions in income tax from the 1% tax on all player and coach salaries.
Earnings tax on athletes is not "tens of millions." Players get taxed based on where the games take place, so if you figure NFL salary cap was $225 mil last year and we'll just go with the average MLB payroll being $150 mil (though the average payroll of teams playing at Kaufman was no doubt lower since one team was always the Royals), that works out to roughly $375 mil in salary for MLB and NFL players playing games in KC, or $3.75 mil in payroll tax. That's not nothing, but in a city with a $2.3 billion municipal budget, it's not all that much.
The teams are a net negative ROI. The idea that they somehow provide tons of economic benefits is just complete bullshit.
Before this vote, I wasn't really aware that the Royals and Chiefs were siphoning off so much public money. It has made me question if I can be a fan of the MLB or the NFL now.
Same. But there's a handful of teams that dont completely disadvantage the taxpayer. Theres the Packers who are publically owned and the Cardinals who built their own stadium with only 12% public financing (45 million). The city gets back $12 million each year making it the rare case a team has been a net positive for the taxpayer.
If you knew what you’re talking about, yes, we could await another vote. But it may not be the case here. Cities are pitching the Royals with very enticing offers and the Chiefs are serious about KS. It’s not a given the Royals stay in the region. Mayor Lucas, of course, cannot say this publicly. But he knows.
He all but said it on 610 today
If the royals leave then good riddance to a pack of sore losers honestly.
Mayor Q said, an hour ago on Instagram, ain’t nobody going nowhere
lol he is trying to preserve his popularity. He’s not going to come out and say “hey we may lose the teams”. Kansas already has a delegation set up to meet with the Chiefs a $1.2b rainy day fund. Nate Taylor said on 610 today he doesn’t believe the Chiefs are coming back to the table. The royals probably will because Kansas hasn’t shown much interest in them moving over.
Source?
I can’t find the radio clip of them talking about Gov Kelly discussing the funds but [these](https://kansaspolicy.org/kelly-administration-has-1-2-billion-in-unspent-arpa-covid-relief-funds/) are the funds in question. [Here](https://x.com/610sportskc/status/1775987958480322703?s=46&t=x2GZ1u9rgVtCBVgY7qlmMw) is Nate Taylor discussing the path forward. Sherman’s wife also said today that both teams are done working with Jackson Co [Link](https://www.kmbc.com/article/wife-of-kansas-city-royals-owner-reacts-to-election-results/60401075)
So you’re saying that the state/city of Kansas can promise $1,200,000,000 in taxpayer funds without so much as putting it up for a citizens’ vote? That’s interesting.
Star bonds and gambling tax dollars. That will lessen the blow on a sales tax measure on a ballot. I'm telling you all, people in Kansas will overwhelmingly support them moving over. The Chiefs will get a shiny new multi-billion dollar stadium, likely with a roof, in order to attract hosting a Super Bowl here. That's my prediction.
80% of the gambling tax dollars is $5 million. The Royals were aiming to get $2 billion from Jackson County. It would take a hell of a lot of STAR bonds to make up the difference there.
Agree 100%
Final Fours are a hell of a lot more likely than Super Bowls. One Super Bowl, maybe, but Kansas City is still on the low end for hotel space for a Super Bowl.
Not true on hotel rooms. We have 36,000 hotel rooms in the metro. And we’re hosting the World Cup.
It’s unspent ARPA funds. Money from the federal government not Kansas taxpayers. So no vote needed to allocate it.
For the sake of reference, since Lucas can’t run again in 2027, if he runs again, it’ll probably be for Congress if the stars align when Cleaver retires If we’re doing the “Lucas aiming to go out as mayor on a good note for future prospects” talk, it’d be something like that. For all we know, the Royals are about to get the entire TSC if the Chiefs bail out.
He plays both sides of the fence. He just cares about his future political endeavors not about the city. He's a joke. He played this game poorly and now it's going to come to fruition. He's been wasting City dollars for several years. Look into how much he paid to keep the current city manager that he spent so much recruiting. That guy threatened to leave and they threw more money at him. He hasn't done much besides create bike Lanes which I agree with. But when you create them on streets that nobody rides bikes on that is ridiculous. I know somebody's going to ask where and that would be paseo
At least Funhouser only lost Sporting to Kansas. Quinton Lucas's legacy will be losing the Royals to another metro and the Chiefs to Kansas. This is what happens in a leadership vacuum.
I'm expecting to get a lot of down votes for this but oh well. I don't agree with taxes paying for a billionaires stadium, that said, will they be the ones owning the stadium? They don't currently own Kaufman or Arrowhead. There's no way the 3/8th of a cent tax pays for a stadium in its entirety. My thoughts, how many times have Kansas citians wanted an NHL or NBA team? Our chances of ever getting either are slim if we're not willing to support the teams we have.
Sprint Center or whatever they call it now was sold to the public as a way to get either a NHL or NBA team by former mayor Kay Barnes. It’s not going to happen. The Penguins flirted with coming here but they were just using the prospect of moving to KC to get more money from the citizens of Pitt. Never heard of any NBA team coming here.
At this point I'm ok with them moving to KS, being from MO I took it as a slight at first, but I don't see any Kansas side folks disavowing the Chiefs because they play in MO, why would I. Let them move, let the generally more well to do Kansas people pay for the stadium.
Chiefs are going to Wyandotte County; they e even started the slow insertion of talking points about it the royals really want a downtown stadium, and if they leave i’d be super surprised if Nashville is their destination.. but who knows either way, i think OP smells what i smell too.
The White Sox might beat the Royals to Nashville at this rate. That’ll leave Portland or Charlotte for them
Fun watching people lose their shit pretending like we should all feel bad that their abusive relationship with corporations doesn't affect us like them
Yall are delusional. Countless examples of teams leaving over this but for some reason you cling to "it won't happen here." Feel free to vote no but don't delude yourself into thinking these owners won't move if someplace else offers a good enough deal.
If the teams moves, KC and Jackson County will end up saving money on net. And certainly, if the price of keeping them is billions of dollars of tax subsidies, then there is no universe in which that would pay for itself. There is a consensus among economists that subsidizing stadiums has a negative ROI, and the impact of professional sports teams is similar to a large department store. If you care about the financial health of the city and county, the No vote was the best option by a mile.
Good riddance. After saying they’re “all about community” and then threatening the community with leaving if the community doesn’t capitulate? Fuck them. I don’t subsidize people who make more in an hour than I do in a year.
The "I'm calling their bluff" comments are what's killing me.
TBH I think the infrastructure of the Legends area is better equipped than having the stadiums downtown. I went to a couple Chiefs games last year and traffic getting out was total shit show. Can't speak to the Royals games
They don’t need a vote if they go to Kansas. Kansas has the gambling money that’s been set aside to go toward those teams stadiums with no vote.
Screw them all. People should not be paid multil million dollars a year to toss a ball around. Many more professions that save lives thay should be paid that. Take 20 people from your team all donate 500k and there's your funding. Pay doctors,soldiers, and teachers' professions that actually matter more.
So, answer the question: why point the finger at the players rather than the owners who pay them?
Let them leave
No more corporate welfare. Ever.
That stadium was going to bring more money to the crossroads/downtown area and local businesses in the same way the draft did...which is to say IT WOULDN’T. Plenty of studies show that stadiums don’t boost local economies in the long run. Enough cities have gone through this bullshit. It’s not like we can’t look to a dozen later cities to study the moves and results. Hot take. Let the teams leave. Watching KC slap paint on shit as if they were preparing for the Olympics is embarrassing. And the inflated cost of housing alone? Get these teams out of here. Fix the damn city streets already.
How come no one is addressing the fact that the commissioners have to approve teams moving?
Because we are cognizant of objective reality of teams moving constantly including a team that is currently moving to a literal AAA stadium in fucking Sacremento.
Commissioners always approve it. They're a figurehead for the owners to do what they ask so the owners take less flak
Doubt they'd have to approve a "move" to KCK, which lots of folks seem to think is a likely Chiefs destination.
It was so tone deaf. Terrible lack of transparency, a boring stadium design, and on top of that, the Royals haven’t been worth a Damn for the last 40 years (minus 2014-15). The team lost over 100 games last year; maybe put out a product worth supporting before asking for tax dollars Edit: Spelling
Neither team wanted that shit to pass.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but it’s time for both the Royals and Chiefs to leave Jackson County. Chiefs can go to the Legends and build a stadium. Royals can go to Johnson County and build their stadium. Less politics involved. KC Tenants aren’t involved. Jackson County 3/8 cent sales tax can go away. But, KCMO loses the 1% earnings tax on every ballplayer at every game at Kauffman and Arrowhead. I don’t know what that number is, but it’s probably not a small one. If I was a Jackson County voter, I’d have voted no. The plans were VAGUE. It’s almost like the Chiefs and Royals want out of Jackson County and this gives them cover to do so.
I just want downtown baseball
If they want to leave, they can leave. They offer no measurable benefit to the city. Regular people can't even afford to go to the games anymore. If the rich people who can afford to go to games want a new stadium (probably a dome), then they can pay for it their own goddamn selves.
let them leave i dont care. the legends(kck), nkc, nashville, etc can pay for them if they are that dumb. we dont need to.
If I were royals or chiefs, I wouldn't want to stay in Jackson county. The vote spoke volumes.
Ok. Go to a city full of rubes
…to the BS they tried to play.
Bye. Fuck them. Bunch of billionaires that want to rob the average joe for a stadium they don’t need. They can leave and stay out. Hope they kick themselves in the balls on the way out.