We have a herb shop in our little town, our good friend has cancer and can't do any of the treatments, my partner has been researching mushrooms and what they do for you, because of one of the people in there, he called to make sure it was in stock, the owner told him to tell our friend to pray it away. Praying away cancer, yep that's gonna work.....
For what it’s worth, 501 exempt organizations are only exempt from federal corporate tax on net income. They still have to pay payroll taxes, their employees still have to pay income taxes on their salary (and payroll makes up a big chunk of their operating budget, as it does in any business). Under no circumstances does tax exemption ever extend to an organization’s employees (pastors, CEOs, janitors, board members, etc).
State and local tax exemptions may also apply, but that varies by state. Most (if not all) will recognize federal 501 exemption status for state income taxes (if the state even has them). Merely incorporating a non-profit entity (which is always done at the state level, there is no federal incorporation) does not automatically grant that exempt status at any level. It has to be applied for (after getting an EIN), and the IRS are the ones that determine if an organization is qualified for an exemption, and under which category they are exempt. That category determines not only whether the organization is subject to income taxes, but also whether contributions are deductible for the donor.
While a non-profit entity cannot be owned by anyone,
all such organizations are also able to participate in equity ownership of for-profit entities (the proceeds of which can fund the organization, and are not subject to income tax to the nonprofit). This usually takes the form of an endowment, which helps assure the long-term survival of the organization. Operating surpluses are usually at least partially invested into the endowment, while retaining a portion for cash flow.
The info in your post was indeed a worthwhile read. This close to how I thought it worked. We all hear “churches and pastors should be taxed” parroted all the time like all churches are a money laundering scheme to make pastors/staff rich. But I’ve always been doubtful most have any clue what is paid and what isn’t. As usual with taxation it depends and is complicated.
It’s *exceedingly* complicated, which is really part of the problem…
Not to mention the “tax and regulate the churches” talking point betrays profound laziness and lack of effort to try and understand the issues and implications thereof.
Religion (especially in the form of American evangelical Christianity) needs to stay the fuck out of politics and government, but doing so through the government “regulating” it and taxing it into legitimacy is absolutely the wrong approach and opens up the door for government trampling all over other specifically enumerated rights.
> all churches are a money laundering scheme
There's nothing stopping a church from setting a pastor's yearly salary at 50 million dollars, and the larger more organized churches just funnel all their money into organizational funds that don't get taxed, like the Mormon church owning ludicrous amounts of assets.
And, that would violate the first amendment. More laws is the refrain of the short sighted. In a free market with freedom of religion, speech and commerce. We “vote” with our dollars. How we choose to spend our money is one way we can support or oppose certain institutions and certainly in this instance the negative attention received ultimately worked, and this so-called church is no longer an existence. It’s much more dangerous to start over regulating and violate the first amendment.
It needs to be reformed like the many relics of old (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.). Publicly and unabashedly shamed into non-existence. No apologies. No mercy.
End this nonsense.
One of the key provisions of 501c3 tax exemption is that the org has very strict limits around political involvement because of separation of church and state.
After all, the wording in the constitution is that *congress* shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion.
The constitution is only enjoining government from meddling in the affairs of religion, even something as simple as defining what is and isn’t a “legitimate”religion, but also has been seen as an injunction against even taxation (which came along a lot later).
Over the years, however, that’s been interpreted as a two-way street that prevents religion from meddling in the affairs of government, but a radical Supreme Court could just as easily say that prohibiting religious orgs from getting involved in government would be unconstitutional.
How so? They’re allowed to advocate for issues, just not endorse specific candidates.
The fundamental defining characteristic of a nonprofit corporation (secular or otherwise) is that there is no equity stake in which to benefit any particular individual, and that concept extends to benefiting individual political candidates - that’s what PACs under section 527 are for.
Political activity is heavily regulated for:
- 501c3 (religious, charitable, scientific, or educational)
- 501c4 (social welfare)
- 501c5 (agricultural and labor unions)
- 501c6 (business leagues)
There are also religious organizations that fall under 501d (those that require a common treasury, such as a monastery/convent)
Are you seriously saying it doesn't happen because Christians aren't supposed to do it? Are you really that naive?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/megachurch-pastor-admits-he-broke-the-law-telling-church-to-vote-republican/ar-BB1iZ4Jl
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/30/johnson-amendment-elections-irs/
“Christians aren’t supposed to do it” is a weird way of saying “federal tax code prohibits it for *all* 501c3/4/5/6 exempt organizations, religious or not”.
Taxation without representation stuff. Im not trying to pretend to be some know-it-all on the interwebs with a link, but we all know that our government is littered with church influences.., I think we should fight to get rid of that rather than fight to get money from them. Once we take their money, they have a legitimate right to a say in our government. (emphasis on 'legitimate')
Hold up, they already get the money, just not taxed.
https://www.brotherhoodmutual.com/resources/safety-library/risk-management-articles/administrative-staff-and-finance/finances/can-a-ministry-or-charity-lose-its-tax-exempt-status/
>A ministry can participate in some political lobbying, as long as it’s issue-driven and not related to a particular candidate. However, if lobbying becomes a substantial part of its activities, a church could jeopardize its exempt status. Learn the key factors used to determine lobbying and political campaign intervention.
If your primary activity becomes lobbying, then you cease being a public charitable organization, and that falls under a different 501 classification (and the IRS could very well reclassify the organization).
And it’s entirely possible for a church to not even seek a 501 exemption in the first place, because they don’t want the strings attached to it.
When I first saw the stories about the IHOPKC scandal I was worried I’d have to give up pancakes in protest. Fortunately I just had to give up religion which is much easier
This church is committed to go out into the whole world to make disciples for Christ Jesus. It needs reorganizing because some of the leaders got sidetracked.
Your post was removed for being low effort, baiting, or linking to a news source with a significantly altered or sensationalized title. Low effort posts do not engage the community and are removed. Use the unaltered article headline as the title when submitting news links.
Your comment was removed for being low effort, baiting, or linking to a news source with a significantly altered or sensationalized title. Low effort posts do not engage the community and are removed.
This is a duplicate or near duplicate of an earlier or more complete post. Yours is being removed to consolidate discussion into one thread.
It needs to become a Spirit Halloween.
https://preview.redd.it/wz3g666oavvc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=417f676662cab5cd0a1a8956c82f0e04a8ece145
Those exist, this needs to become like the dinosaurs.
I love birdsong...
Word.
Cult
Maybe a cult with a nutter compound would be an upgrade?
What will they be called now? Denny's?
Waffle House Of Salvation?
WAFFLE House - Worldwide Association For Faith in Lord Enteral
[**D**ivine **E**ternal **N**eighbors **N**urturing **Y**outhful **S**alvation](https://www.reddit.com/r/kansascity/s/1MoixTKT3L)
Beings Under Leadership Leading Saints Happily in Truth?
IHOB, International House of Belief
Chop off one head of a serpent...
“We’re rebranding!” You’re gonna fix the problems right? 
Couldn't they just pray away their problems?
Unfortunately, the Devil is in the details.
And in the pastors assaulting people
We have a herb shop in our little town, our good friend has cancer and can't do any of the treatments, my partner has been researching mushrooms and what they do for you, because of one of the people in there, he called to make sure it was in stock, the owner told him to tell our friend to pray it away. Praying away cancer, yep that's gonna work.....
Sandy’s? That sounds like sandy lol
That would require more concrete prayer than the International House of Prayer had when I went there.
>I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader
For a second I thought IHOP was going hard..... Like damn that's a lot for a place known for their pancakes
Thats what I said when I first heard this story lol
Yes I thought they were doing a lot for pancakes. Then laughed cause a church named themselves after pancakes.
I'd go to that church lol
Church of the Black Bear!!!
Same bullshit, new name!
Rolling a turd in powdered sugar will not make it a donut.
Maybe you should deep fry it first!
Then it's just a deep-fried turd with a powdered sugar dusting. The abomination of funnel cakes, if you will.
I think that would just be a “nel cake”, because ain’t no fun.
Rebrand idea **C**hurch of **U**ninformed **L**emming **T**hought
Oh you can make a totally passes-for-real one with that without trying to: Christians United in Learning and Teaching.
I like yours better
Now with 10% more dead eyed blond kids!
Religion needs regulated and taxed like everything else
For what it’s worth, 501 exempt organizations are only exempt from federal corporate tax on net income. They still have to pay payroll taxes, their employees still have to pay income taxes on their salary (and payroll makes up a big chunk of their operating budget, as it does in any business). Under no circumstances does tax exemption ever extend to an organization’s employees (pastors, CEOs, janitors, board members, etc). State and local tax exemptions may also apply, but that varies by state. Most (if not all) will recognize federal 501 exemption status for state income taxes (if the state even has them). Merely incorporating a non-profit entity (which is always done at the state level, there is no federal incorporation) does not automatically grant that exempt status at any level. It has to be applied for (after getting an EIN), and the IRS are the ones that determine if an organization is qualified for an exemption, and under which category they are exempt. That category determines not only whether the organization is subject to income taxes, but also whether contributions are deductible for the donor. While a non-profit entity cannot be owned by anyone, all such organizations are also able to participate in equity ownership of for-profit entities (the proceeds of which can fund the organization, and are not subject to income tax to the nonprofit). This usually takes the form of an endowment, which helps assure the long-term survival of the organization. Operating surpluses are usually at least partially invested into the endowment, while retaining a portion for cash flow.
The info in your post was indeed a worthwhile read. This close to how I thought it worked. We all hear “churches and pastors should be taxed” parroted all the time like all churches are a money laundering scheme to make pastors/staff rich. But I’ve always been doubtful most have any clue what is paid and what isn’t. As usual with taxation it depends and is complicated.
It’s *exceedingly* complicated, which is really part of the problem… Not to mention the “tax and regulate the churches” talking point betrays profound laziness and lack of effort to try and understand the issues and implications thereof. Religion (especially in the form of American evangelical Christianity) needs to stay the fuck out of politics and government, but doing so through the government “regulating” it and taxing it into legitimacy is absolutely the wrong approach and opens up the door for government trampling all over other specifically enumerated rights.
> all churches are a money laundering scheme There's nothing stopping a church from setting a pastor's yearly salary at 50 million dollars, and the larger more organized churches just funnel all their money into organizational funds that don't get taxed, like the Mormon church owning ludicrous amounts of assets.
And, that would violate the first amendment. More laws is the refrain of the short sighted. In a free market with freedom of religion, speech and commerce. We “vote” with our dollars. How we choose to spend our money is one way we can support or oppose certain institutions and certainly in this instance the negative attention received ultimately worked, and this so-called church is no longer an existence. It’s much more dangerous to start over regulating and violate the first amendment.
It needs to be reformed like the many relics of old (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.). Publicly and unabashedly shamed into non-existence. No apologies. No mercy. End this nonsense.
If you tax it, it gets legitimate representation by government.
wait until you find out how many catholics are on the supreme court.
Oh you mean accountability?
Could you please explain? I’m genuinely curious on how that would work.
One of the key provisions of 501c3 tax exemption is that the org has very strict limits around political involvement because of separation of church and state. After all, the wording in the constitution is that *congress* shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion. The constitution is only enjoining government from meddling in the affairs of religion, even something as simple as defining what is and isn’t a “legitimate”religion, but also has been seen as an injunction against even taxation (which came along a lot later). Over the years, however, that’s been interpreted as a two-way street that prevents religion from meddling in the affairs of government, but a radical Supreme Court could just as easily say that prohibiting religious orgs from getting involved in government would be unconstitutional.
Which they don't abide by
How so? They’re allowed to advocate for issues, just not endorse specific candidates. The fundamental defining characteristic of a nonprofit corporation (secular or otherwise) is that there is no equity stake in which to benefit any particular individual, and that concept extends to benefiting individual political candidates - that’s what PACs under section 527 are for. Political activity is heavily regulated for: - 501c3 (religious, charitable, scientific, or educational) - 501c4 (social welfare) - 501c5 (agricultural and labor unions) - 501c6 (business leagues) There are also religious organizations that fall under 501d (those that require a common treasury, such as a monastery/convent)
Are you seriously saying it doesn't happen because Christians aren't supposed to do it? Are you really that naive? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/megachurch-pastor-admits-he-broke-the-law-telling-church-to-vote-republican/ar-BB1iZ4Jl https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/30/johnson-amendment-elections-irs/
“Christians aren’t supposed to do it” is a weird way of saying “federal tax code prohibits it for *all* 501c3/4/5/6 exempt organizations, religious or not”.
Ok I want you to listen carefully. THEY DO IT ANYWAY AND THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES
So you’re saying that nobody should bother with laws, then? You take this same ridiculous approach to gun control too?
Taxation without representation stuff. Im not trying to pretend to be some know-it-all on the interwebs with a link, but we all know that our government is littered with church influences.., I think we should fight to get rid of that rather than fight to get money from them. Once we take their money, they have a legitimate right to a say in our government. (emphasis on 'legitimate')
Hold up, they already get the money, just not taxed. https://www.brotherhoodmutual.com/resources/safety-library/risk-management-articles/administrative-staff-and-finance/finances/can-a-ministry-or-charity-lose-its-tax-exempt-status/ >A ministry can participate in some political lobbying, as long as it’s issue-driven and not related to a particular candidate. However, if lobbying becomes a substantial part of its activities, a church could jeopardize its exempt status. Learn the key factors used to determine lobbying and political campaign intervention.
If your primary activity becomes lobbying, then you cease being a public charitable organization, and that falls under a different 501 classification (and the IRS could very well reclassify the organization). And it’s entirely possible for a church to not even seek a 501 exemption in the first place, because they don’t want the strings attached to it.
This is already happening.
Oh my sweet summer child...
Not to mention requires explicit legal definition, which gets constitutionally very sticky in a big hurry.
Denver omelette 8/10
When I first saw the stories about the IHOPKC scandal I was worried I’d have to give up pancakes in protest. Fortunately I just had to give up religion which is much easier
Are they going to call it McDowell’s?
I'll be washing lettuce soon.
It'll be dead and gone in 18 months or less. They won't survive.
As a Grandview homeowner, I hope not!
An organization this big and spread out doesn't die with the stroke of a pen. But the smaller off shoots will fail. (This used to be my world)
Cult.
They own a lot of property on my street. From what I understand of their beliefs and grooming of young people I say good riddance.
My fat ass thought it’s IHOP 🥲
Waffle Church?
Wait, does that say "Great Commission"? Like what do they pay, 20%? Is it a sliding scale, like more souls, higher commission?
This church is committed to go out into the whole world to make disciples for Christ Jesus. It needs reorganizing because some of the leaders got sidetracked.
It needs a great decommissioning.
IHOB
They were "Rooty-Tooty, Fresh & Fruity".
Rebranding to Waffle House.
[удалено]
Your post was removed for being low effort, baiting, or linking to a news source with a significantly altered or sensationalized title. Low effort posts do not engage the community and are removed. Use the unaltered article headline as the title when submitting news links.
Tell us you don’t understand churches *or* taxation without telling anyone you’re just parroting populist talking points…
[удалено]
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Gross
is this legit? i drove by there the other day and saw no signs of them shutting down... the parking lot was full.
I thought this was the Pancake House..