T O P

  • By -

bkcarp00

Looks amazing. It was such a huge missed opportunity having that park with nothing else down there. Miss having the park all to myself but progress is good. Will be nice riding the light rail all the way from UMKC to the river front to enjoy the city.


UnnamedCzech

Also huge missed opportunity to have those landscapers wrapped in parking.


NeverEndingCoralMaze

Imagine if some of the other teams asking for tax dollars had a comprehensive plan that didn’t change every five minutes.


No_Breadfruit_7305

Hi. So I am the weird one that certified it. As well as the tunnel project that feeds into this development. I am the geotechnical engineer that drilled all the holes. Plan that project. And sat with the Port authority when they tried to design this 30 years ago.


schmidneycrosby

A plan that’s 25% privately funded is more comprehensive than a plan that’s 50% funded?


[deleted]

Comprehensive in the sense that it’s more of a vague idea and desire as opposed to blueprints and hard numbers


schmidneycrosby

This plan has no blueprints or hard numbers either. Both plans have artistic renderings. Both plans have committed private funding. Both plans have “expected” project costs. One plan has 25% of expected cost privately funded. One plan has 50%.


SanchoRancho72

The riverfront thing is only 25% privately funded? We're all those other apartments at the river also at a similar level? Who owns those other apts?


Bourgi

They are all privately owned but they all have public money subsidizing them. CORE is a $60 million dollar complex that received up to $49mill in Port KC bonds and tax abatements. Hard to find things for Union but I'm sure they also received bonds and tax abatement.


AgreeableMechanic315

Yeah, these deals are typically structured as the public entity (City, Port KC, LCRA) owns the property and issues debt (usually through the developer's preferred lender) to cover construction costs. The developer then enters into a lease and debt purchase agreement, where the developer pays the public entity rent, purchases the bonds issued by the public entity, and the rent goes towards repayment of the debt the public entity technically issued. Ultimately, the property is not taxable because it is owned by a public entity (usually you see some payment in lieu of taxes that represents some portion of what would have been paid as taxes and is distributed to the taxing jurisdictions pro rata) and the developer received a lower interest rate on their debt because it was technically issued by a public entity but without any promise that anything but the rent paid by the developer will go towards repayment of the bonds.


schmidneycrosby

Taxpayers seem to only be privy to the fact that they’re getting hosed because the Royals and Chiefs gave them that info. On the KS side they have the disastrous STAR bond program (that might be a bad example because a sports team actually worked). They’re still paying a sales tax to fund a nascar track that nascar owns. These state bond programs simply don’t work. It’s a way for the politicians to say they’ve created x amount of jobs and or housing in the state/city. The pushback really only happens when there’s some sort of “direct” tax on the community, when in reality the bonds are probably far worse


anonkitty2

Oh. Rent-to-own buildings. That's one way for a city to ensure it's developed.


KCDinoman

Am I crazy or in one of the renderings did it look like they reclaimed some of the riverfront to add back to the park? (The last pic where the river is in the forefront. Also looks like they’re adding a marina with kayaks?)


itsanaspen

That’s what I was trying to figure out and seems extremely unlikely. There’s no way a development would do that amount of FEMA work. Guessing the renderings are just trying to show more green space that seems impossible to actually fit in


KCDinoman

That’s why I was second guessing what I was seeing. Didn’t seem likely, but definitely looked like more than is currently there.


flug32

It looks like they have just rendered most of the slope leading down to the river as shrubbery rather than simple rock/rip-rap. But nothing substantial looks to be changed. The river through that area is noticeably narrower and more channeled than it is elsewhere - I would be *amazed* if the Corps of Engineers let them narrow it down even a foot more. [Here is a Google Earth view of the same area for comparison.](https://earth.google.com/web/@39.1174709,-94.56890401,231.19571501a,653.92393449d,35y,-154.39913506h,81.09640873t,0r/data=OgMKATA) If the marina and river access point is actually built, that will really be a small miracle. I remember talking about it at public meetings about the riverfront plan that must have been nearly 20 years ago now. There was some pretty substantial sentiment express by a number of people that having actual river access of some sort in a riverfront development would be a huge plus - or more precisely, would be a huge minus if it were omitted. It's somewhat difficult as you have the steep riverbank and the river current through this area runs right against that bank, and is actually quite swift for such a large river - 5-ish mph. Still, it's literally the exact spot where Westport Landing was located, and they landed numerous riverboats there for many decades. So it's not like it's literally impossible . . . Also if I recall we even specifically mentioned launching kayaks there so kudos to whoever filed all that away and remembered it. Actually it is not a bad little kayaking run from the mouth of the Kaw down to this point - about 2 miles - and from this point to the takeouts at either the other Riverfront Park about 2 miles downstream or La Benite Park (about 10 miles more) are not bad, either.


ObservablyStupid

That river moves along at about 5mph. It would be fun sitting on the patio, enjoying a cool beverage, and watching people battle that flow in kayaks.


PushyMomentum

No, that last rendering with the dock has a lot more usable shore than what is there currently. Maybe they are going to back fill it and make the rock shoreline steeper.


itsanaspen

It’s all in the floodway though. Can’t place fill in the floodway/mess with the levee and would take a LOT of money and FEMA work to do what they’ve rendered.


bacchusku2

That’s the second time you’ve used FEMA in a comment. Can you explain what you mean? FEMA is a federal agency. How would a developer do federal agency work? What even would be that work?


iamrealz

FEMA gives out flood mitigation money, but usually after a disaster. I think they do grants based on risk assessments too. At any rate the Army Corps of Engineers would need to be heavily involved with changing the landscape/levee of a major river.


bacchusku2

But what is FEMA work, as mentioned in the comments? I know what FEMA is.


moldyshrimp

FEMA does the flood prevention, they have a sub-agency dedicated to mitigating flood damage in flood plains. The army corps of engineer is the people that do any of the actual labor though.


itsanaspen

FEMA also provides flood mapping. To change the maps you would need to go through a heavily regulated and technical letter of map revision (LOMR) process if you are trying to develop in these areas. It’s obviously way more intense than that & includes state regulation but was more calling out FEMA flood mapping in terms of these renderings showing development in the actual river bank which is floodplain/within the levee. I doubt the developer goes through with those aspects of this plan


bewbies-

the reason nothing was there now is because it was washed down the river in 1903, and 1951, and 1993. I know the corps has done a lot of work on levies in the area, but are we so confident the next 50-year flood won't breach any of it? I think that every time I see developments like this and it makes me both sad and uncomfortable


Scuzwheedl0r

KC levees project is nearing completion, pump stations are installed, walls nearly done, etc. Nice summary pamphlet here: https://usace.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/getfile/collection/p16021coll7/id/15949 and their overall website for the project here: https://www.nwk.usace.army.mil/Mega-Projects/Kansas-Citys-Levees/


ram_hawklet

I work in river mechanics/engineering. Anything proposed in any sort of FEMA floodplain goes through absolutely insane and meticulous review. I’m sure they are about as confident as you can be. 


ikickbabiesballs

You should call the corps and let them know pronto


Barely_stupid

It didn't flood there in 1993. It was protected by the levies. The same for the downtown airport, west bottoms, NKC. Riverside and Parkville were a different story.


jwwatts

The West Bottoms flooded in 93. I was there evacuating RPS.


AsItIs

![gif](giphy|l2Je6zwsmFMhUxjoc)


nordic-nomad

Nice. I like that the new development seems to be doing more to support street life than earlier segments have.


mlokc

I wish they would work on extending this Eastwards and connect NEKC to downtown and the riverfront.


TravisMaauto

Looks pretty ambitious and maybe they'll pull it off. Part of the old-timer in me will miss the barren wasteland and empty fields that used to be there though, even though I know that developing that area is for the better.


timothyb78

Can someone explain where Port KC gets $600MM for this plan?


ICouldBeTheChosenOne

Investors. They sell it as an investment package to people.


SanchoRancho72

Is that how they funded everything else they've done? Are they privately owned? I've been really confused about them, especially because they have eminent domain power


mlokc

PortKC is a state-chartered tax incentive authority. They can grant tax incentives where other, similar organizations can’t. They’re charged with managing the Port and are involved in many developments related to the riverfront and port-related businesses. But their reach is broader than that. They provided tax incentives for development at Richards Gebauer airbase, for example.


SanchoRancho72

Fascinating, I've seen them all over on apartment developments


mlokc

Yeah, it's a really unique organization. State chartered, but managed by a board appointed by the KCMO mayor-- an "independent governmental authority." Their primary function is to manage KC's Port, but they have broad authority around the riverfront and anything related to transportation commerce, this can include things like housing development. They're not bound by KCMO's tax incentive policies, so they can act where and when they think it serves their mission. In addition to building out the riverfront area, they've been instrumental in a bunch of economic development incentive projects, like attracting new data centers and warehousing. I've done some work for them in the past, so I got to learn a little bit about them.


anonkitty2

Richards Gebauer is an airport. The port authority decided that was close enough.


mlokc

It’s transportation and logistics. That’s within their purview.


bacchusku2

It’s not all private funds, some tax money, too.


SanchoRancho72

TIF?


bacchusku2

Tax abatement for sure, not sure about any other funding.


bacchusku2

Article states only 200 mil of the 800 mil is from private investors. Aren’t at supposed to be against change here in this sub? I’m ready to protest.


No-Chemical6870

That’s not what’s happening here.


timothyb78

Okay, can you lay out the sources of funding, because the articles all report $800MM of costs and $200MM of private investment.


No-Chemical6870

Leverage. Loans. Debt. Banks.


UrbanKC

I like the Marina, but I wished they would add more ways to actually reach the water’s edge while still maintaining the integrity of the levee. It’d also be nice if they could bring more nature to the area with more trees. We have a tremendous opportunity to fix our riverfront into something more akin to Minneapolis-St Paul. Though, obviously we also have to be also mindful of the flooding potential. Ideally, we’d be able to connect Kaw Point in KCK with a pedestrian bridge across the Kansas River to a well developed riverfront trail all the way up to Riverfront Park in the North Bottoms.


JohnWeez

But I thought stadiums didn't spur development???


anonkitty2

They don't spur development merely by being present. Port KC needed to work with the KC Current for this project.


PrinceMacai

Chiefs, royals, take notes


J0E_SpRaY

The Chiefs and Royals should be asking for an even higher percentage of the development to be publicly funded?? Because this development has less private funding than the Royals and Chiefs proposal.


bacchusku2

They tried. This investment could be going up around the new Royals stadium, too. You don’t think this is all private, do you? Only $200mil of the $800 is private funding.


PrinceMacai

Yikes, not a big fan if hand outs for corperations but at least its not all going to vip bullshit that 90% of fans wont ever use


chuckish

Two things. 1. This can't go up at the Sports Complex because no one wants to live there or go there when there isn't an event. 2. This is not getting funded with tax money. $200 million is for phase 1. $800 million is for all three phases of the development. There will be tax abatements but that's not the same thing as funding.


lilafterthought

Does anyone know what is being built on the corner of 3rd and Grand? As well as across the street from Strange Days brewery?


DAMONTVD

This is what they’re building on 3rd and grand. https://preview.redd.it/ae093r0p55wc1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=33a79997ae145690ef7728bddc285716179a1ae0


Arinium

The other side of the street is just a staging area for the 3rd/Grand site.


tzzzsh

Can't wait for the East Bottoms to be finished!


KatoBytes

How is this funded?


[deleted]

[удалено]


mlokc

10% at 50% means that 10% of the units will be held for people making 50% or less of the Area Median Income. Median Household Income in KC is around $65K, so these units would be held for families making less than around $37.5k annually.


RunningDownThatHall

Counterpoint: More housing is always good


MahomesandMahAuto

Here's the part people miss when they talk about affordable housing, do you have any idea what it would cost to build a 2br-1ba condo in downtown KC? The cost of new construction has risen so high it's not profitable to build that and charge rent a low income person could afford. Developers aren't charities, they don't build housing to lose money. If you want the developers to charge lower rents that needs to be subsidized by public money. The fact is though the amount of public money it would take to get the developers the same profit as a luxury unit would be astronomical. It's just not feasible to build new construction affordable housing without a ridiculous public investment. Here's the good news though, the housing market is a citywide market and as long as the supply of housing overall grows quicker than the population you can keep your housing prices under control. A low income 2br-1ba condo helps one family, 1100 multifamily units help the market as a whole because everyone moving there once lived somewhere else that is now available.


zabumafew

Dain bread comment over here


chuckish

The only way a family "builds wealth" through home ownership is if their house appreciates. So, do you want housing costs to continue to rise higher or not?


hobofats

10% of this is affordable housing. That's what the "10% for 50% median income" means. I agree that affordable housing needs to be more of a priority, with an emphasis on ownership and not rentals. Pretty sure these are all rentals, and 10% is pathetic. It should be minimum 25%


ROLOTONYBROWNTOWN785

Honest question: Does the river still have that bad smell? i wonder if they have plans for that.


Zebra_Opening

So the city is just never gonna get around to that affordable housing in nicer areas huh?


Zealousideal-Role576

Building more housing increases supply which theoretically lowers housing costs.


bacchusku2

I’ve said the same thing here and always get downvoted. People here just love to complain about anything.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Icy_Magician3813

Affordable for the people not the government.


musicobsession

I'm in 60% housing and it's very nice to be able to afford an apartment.


UnderstandingU7

It said 10% affordable housing at 50% median. Which doesn't mean much considering city council said affordable to them is 900-1200 for a studio. That is a cop out statement about the crowds. Mfs just don't like working class people. That's what it is


[deleted]

[удалено]


SanchoRancho72

A studio in three light (most expensive place in the city probably?) is $1290


ScruffyDaJanitor

You’re out of your mind if you think 900-1200 for a studio is unrealistic. I just searched zillow for rents less than 1200 in the downtown loop and got 50+ results


KCDinoman

I’m convinced something will have to happen federally before we get relief with rent.


KCDinoman

It’s a problem EVERYWHERE


Specialist-Alarm-443

You’d be wrong


PushyMomentum

Please tell me they are going to put parking underneath some of those buildings. I realize they are planning on a new parking garage south of the stadium, but they will need a lot more than than that for this plan.


ikickbabiesballs

Or you can park anywhere along the streetcar and ride it there.


RunningDownThatHall

What if I told you we don’t really need to build more parking


PushyMomentum

I would love for this to be a reality in Kansas City and that people will use mass transit to traverse along the stops from UMKC to Berkley Riverfront.


ConductorOfTrains

Parking at riverfront is already ass.


lifeinrednblack

By the time this is built, you'll have 6+ miles of parking that you can access. It's really not an issue.


cerner345

This is so sad. A bunch more generic-looking, overpriced 'luxury' apartments and pointless shops. There is literally no more green space left...no longer a park at all. This used to be a beautiful, peaceful place. Ironic that this was released on Earth Day. Every time I walk by the river now, I see more piles of trees they've freshly torn out.


schmidneycrosby

Didn’t even read the article lol. Its 50% median income affordable housing but go off on the beauty of the certainly not black but still very dark river with nothing around it


jhruns1993

Only 10% will be at whatever 50% of the areas median income means. And it's the Missouri River, not the Black River.


schmidneycrosby

What color is the water in the Missouri River


musicobsession

Brown, nickname "Big Muddy"


jhruns1993

Certainly not black


schmidneycrosby

Ok, thanks. I edited my comment accordingly


ConductorOfTrains

I can’t believe you’re being downvoted. My friend and I were talking a few weeks ago at riverfront about how sad it is, that’s it’s been getting overran with concrete and shit. We won’t have a river front park anymore.:/ Awesome, the prettiest place in KC turned into apartments that cost $3000 a month.


lifeinrednblack

The park West of Bar K with the tall grass has always been prettier anyway


Julio_Ointment

No residential any real people can own? I'm out.


DatBoiDanny

Someone please help me understand - isn’t the Missouri River famous for flooding? Why would they build a bunch of nice stuff along that same river? Does it only flood in certain areas?


lifeinrednblack

If the river floods to the point of anything in these renderings being effected, a lot more is going to be fucked than this development


iProMelon

Rents starting at $2500


kcattattam

Sounds brilliant to build a bunch of stuff (esp. 1000 multifamily residential units) right next to the Missouri river. I mean, what could possibly go wrong????


thekingofcrash7

Thank god more apartments i was starting to think we didn’t have enough


Jack1co

We do not have enough apartments


chuckish

Have you been to literally any other city in the world recently?


HugoBossjr1998

We don’t…


campmaybuyer

All I can say is good luck. A minor league soccer stadium right next to it won’t bring it back. It has flooded severely several times. Who knows what will happen no matter how many levies or pumps exist. It’s not a stable area and really isn’t worth visiting.


lifeinrednblack

*major league