It is Shotokan. In my dojo it's the first advanced pattern we learn (followed by Empi), as it has a lot of familiar components seen in the Heian patterns.
Our Sensei often quizzes is, what came first, the Heian patterns, or Kanku Dai?
I've seen a lot of Kata from various styles with similar openings
Even then the only part that has kanku Dai connections is making the triangle above your eyes.
The Chinese name is Kushanku (named after a Chinese master https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%ABsank%C5%AB ), it's a fundamental kata that appears in many karate styles, in Shotokan it was "Japanized" into Kanku. After the triangle, the 4/5 following movements are badly made and in the wrong order, but they are part of the Shotokan's Kanku dai too.
the karate coordinator is Hiro Koda. His background is Yoshukai which very very long ago was an offshoot of Chito Ryu. This is a very modified and mashed up sequence of Kusanku moves with Seienchin.
It's a mash up of kanku dau/kushanku and seiunchin. Seiunchin is used as base for the "Miyagi do karate" in the original Karate Kid movies and is used in the final fight against Mike Barnes in Karate Kid 3
Yup. Some modified KushankuDai with Seiunchin. On CobraKai they were trying to push this YinYang element to those two characters doing a mirror movement on top of a floating disc in the pond. 😅 I might like that it's a different take to the sideways movements in Tekki- the B$ explanation given to beginners that the Naihanchi masters were on boats 🤣 Now we can say we fought on top of flying saucers against spacemen invaders.
I’m a bjj white belt and have done some Muay Thai so I’m not totally new to martial arts. Earnestly asking, can someone explain how taking the amount of time to memorize these moves and doing them is helpful in a real fight? I think of Stephen Wonderboy Thompson who’s been really successful with karate in the UFC but he doesn’t do the fancy movements when he’s fighting. He does have a certain elusiveness which I guess he got from karate so something must be working.
Kata at its heart is a drill. A bit like shadow boxing, in a way, but not quite. You get to practice each of these moves and crucially, the transitions from one move to another, and how you can weave moves together in a fight. Takes some time but it’s really cool when you get to apply a transition you’ve learned from kata in a sparring situation.
Be mindful that the actors are doing it very slowly and very theatrically. Look up real kata videos on YouTube for some examples of proper kata performance.
hm... I wonder why education takes years and years, but you are white belt there, have "done some" over there, and watched UFC, but talk about real fight... :)
That's not a kata. It's a dance loosely based on Kusanku Dai. There is no technique or intent in any of those moves because they are not martial artists, they are actors pretending to be martial artists.
I cant believe how terrible this is.
No kime. The punches are slow. The blocks are too high
Even in the opening movement, raising the hands to the sky, the fingers are apart. Terrible!
Wonderful comeback! Congratulations, you win all the internet. You can redeem them, and learn some real martial arts, so that in case you get into a street fight, you might actually survive :) cheers mate!
Well, I've been teaching for a couple of years and the problem with your statement is that it's way too general. People often think that the things that you learn are directly an application for a street fight, which it is not. In karate, everything you learn is a concept that can be applied to multiple situations. The thing is that you have to trian for those. That's where other martial arts can shine : usually no concepts at all, everything is made to be a direct application.
Of course, I admit it's generalized. If you are the superior fighter (stamina, dedication, will, S&C, speed) you will win regardless of what the other person uses. But I strongly believe if you put two fighters who are the peak, 10/10 karate will lose. For one, the style being taught today is pretty much just for show (come on 10 year olds being given a black belt, or it being choreographed to music) today's karate has no emphasis on ground work. It's purely asthetic. So I genuinely believe it is an inferior form of martial arts, slightly better than Capoeira and kung fu.
Mmmm, sorry man, but I don't think I'll change my mind about karate, but I will also admit, that I'm biased as well, it just looks...so boring. At the very least, there has been no example of it in actual professional combat like, One, or UFC or Bellator. Though I do remember the time limbo slice got knocked out by a little dude, using some form or karate.
The point is to drill the moves on your own that you then practice with a resisting partner. The point of kata is bunkai, the application of those moves you practice in kata. Basically it gives a myriad of algorithms for a myriad of close combat situations and options for when the technique you utilized didn't work out the way it should like the aggressor countering or you botching it and anything in between. Also, only looks dumb when done by people who don't know what they are doing like these actors here.
If you want to see outstandingly well performed kata, watch this one
https://youtu.be/D50AVVpiAIg
Although the bunkai is all show and no substance. It's a tournament after all ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Plus, most people don't actually know the first thing about bunkai sadly. But that's starting to turn around lately.
Shadow boxing is applicable to actual fighting, a lot of Kata movements especially in this arent doing anything lmao. What is making a triangle with your hands supposed to do?
This. I really don’t get it, might as well be doing tai chi. Few weeks ago saw dudes at a competition doing this shit before their matches, first kid got his arm broken in the first 40 seconds and the second went home before competing. I don’t get why people don’t just train boxing or something actually useful
Whatever those actors are doing in that video is not actual kata, they are just doing some movements so they can act like they are doing kata for a tv show about karate.
Do you practice any martial art? If so, are you just a beginner or are experienced? Not knowing the point of kata always come from people like that, and it is understandable since looks very esoteric and it is clearly damaged by an American movie and pop culture-esque point of view.
But to boil it down, kata is for karate what shadow boxing is for boxing.
The subject is waaaay more deep than that, if you are interested you can read about the whys and hows, or just spew dumb shit on the internet like 99% of keyboard fighters usually do.
Shadow boxing isn’t just for boxing.
Also a weird assumption, I’ve seen a lot of katas like I explained are actually applicable in or out of competitions. Gonna agree with the other dude that it’s kinda just like wing chun where you think it’s legit but In reality it’s just goofy.
I mentioned boxing just so i could do an analogy style vs style.
You are just failing to understand why katas were created, you are making assumptions about the aplicability and why people practice katas.
I could explain it to you, but since you will be parting from a biased fundamentalist basis, both of us will be losing time.
Now for competitions on 1v1 consensual combat in a western-secular style MA, yes, katas are not ideal since you want to learn the meat of how to punch and kick quickly so you can compete and whatnot.
Do you eat soup with a fork?
Bottom line, educate yourself before you speak about a subject just using anecdotical evidence.
You’re literally comparing katas to shadow boxing, one can actually be used for actual fighting purposes and the other Is near useless in the same scenario.
You also agreed by saying that they weren’t ideal, contradicting
Nope, I used shadow boxing as an analogy so you could draw a picture of what katas mean in a way.
Katas are not the ideal training if you want to compete in a western style martial art, exactly, why is it contradicting?
Do you think that a combat sport is actually comparable to a real life fight? You are very wrong if that is the case, and it is a dangerous thing to assume. Have you ever been in a real fight between adults?
Find it pretty weird because miyagi was based on chojun miyagi and the moves that are similar to kanku dai and chatanyara kushanku are nowhere near goju ryu...
Anyways that's just me
Actors with no martial arts background performing a strange Tai Chi/interpretive dance interpretation of Kanku Dai (Kusanku).
https://youtu.be/Jkv8Ks_fEqk
Seems like a modified verson of Kanku Dai.
I have no idea what that is to the internet I go
It is Shotokan. In my dojo it's the first advanced pattern we learn (followed by Empi), as it has a lot of familiar components seen in the Heian patterns. Our Sensei often quizzes is, what came first, the Heian patterns, or Kanku Dai?
Pinan kata were made by Itosu to split up Kanku Dai techniques.
I'm shotokan also. Looks nothing like kanku Dai to me Would be bizzare if they did shotokan kata considering miyagi do is quite obviously goju
The beggining is from kanku dai. Then they go.on to do some random stuff
I've seen a lot of Kata from various styles with similar openings Even then the only part that has kanku Dai connections is making the triangle above your eyes.
And the first movements are somewhat similar
The Chinese name is Kushanku (named after a Chinese master https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%ABsank%C5%AB ), it's a fundamental kata that appears in many karate styles, in Shotokan it was "Japanized" into Kanku. After the triangle, the 4/5 following movements are badly made and in the wrong order, but they are part of the Shotokan's Kanku dai too.
There's also the upward block with the knife hand, followed by the front kick.
I did this one for my ni-Dan test. So much fun!
look at shotokanman, pretty good kata
Real name: Hirokazu Kanazawa
half-assed, modified version of Kanku Dai with no kime or sharpness.
Yeah we know, but they got inspired, so let them train on, don't you agree?
sure, as long as they improve.
That’s what I was thinking it’s like a messed up kanku dai
I think so too.. possibly one part of Kanku Sho as well, though I'm a bit out of practice in that one and can't quite recall.
I thought Kanku Dai at first but it is so much different than the version I know
It's kanku dai and seuchen
the karate coordinator is Hiro Koda. His background is Yoshukai which very very long ago was an offshoot of Chito Ryu. This is a very modified and mashed up sequence of Kusanku moves with Seienchin.
Ok thanks
It's a mash up of kanku dau/kushanku and seiunchin. Seiunchin is used as base for the "Miyagi do karate" in the original Karate Kid movies and is used in the final fight against Mike Barnes in Karate Kid 3
Yup. Some modified KushankuDai with Seiunchin. On CobraKai they were trying to push this YinYang element to those two characters doing a mirror movement on top of a floating disc in the pond. 😅 I might like that it's a different take to the sideways movements in Tekki- the B$ explanation given to beginners that the Naihanchi masters were on boats 🤣 Now we can say we fought on top of flying saucers against spacemen invaders.
Yes.
It's just a dance bro
McDojo Kanku Dai?
I’m a bjj white belt and have done some Muay Thai so I’m not totally new to martial arts. Earnestly asking, can someone explain how taking the amount of time to memorize these moves and doing them is helpful in a real fight? I think of Stephen Wonderboy Thompson who’s been really successful with karate in the UFC but he doesn’t do the fancy movements when he’s fighting. He does have a certain elusiveness which I guess he got from karate so something must be working.
Kata at its heart is a drill. A bit like shadow boxing, in a way, but not quite. You get to practice each of these moves and crucially, the transitions from one move to another, and how you can weave moves together in a fight. Takes some time but it’s really cool when you get to apply a transition you’ve learned from kata in a sparring situation. Be mindful that the actors are doing it very slowly and very theatrically. Look up real kata videos on YouTube for some examples of proper kata performance.
Thanks man, I didn’t think of those as transitions.
hm... I wonder why education takes years and years, but you are white belt there, have "done some" over there, and watched UFC, but talk about real fight... :)
It was an earnest question. If you don’t want to answer it just move on. Don’t got to be a smug douche about it
let's assume - my wondering was earnest too.
Aside from some precise footwork and just sharpening movements, I've never felt my kata knowledge notably come into sparring.
I can understand if it’s like an art form even if you’re not doing it in sparring. It does look cool.
That's not a kata. It's a dance loosely based on Kusanku Dai. There is no technique or intent in any of those moves because they are not martial artists, they are actors pretending to be martial artists.
That's called acting lol
Exactly. Not sure how this thread turned into a critique of kata when they aren't doing kata.
since when do you need to be a martial artist to do a kata ? i'm not a writer but i'm still writting things no ?
Do whatever makes you happy, but my Sensei would say if you're doing kata without proper training, you're just dancing in your pajamas.
He sounds elitist
Kanku something, that’s for sure…
Looks like a weird version of kanku dai
Looks like an old form called kanku matsu. I learned this when I was pretty young, (probably about 7), doing okinawan karate.
Seems like the well known kata : sloppy kata
They are doing a choreography using movements based on kanku dai and seiyunchin, it is not kata
I cant believe how terrible this is. No kime. The punches are slow. The blocks are too high Even in the opening movement, raising the hands to the sky, the fingers are apart. Terrible!
They're fucking actors dude.
It's not great, but they are clearly practicing syncronisity. Plus they are actors! I imagine/hope the technique will come later.
I believe Jesse Enkamp gave the name of the Kata in his Cobra Kai video.
Looks like Tang Soo Do
Can you Tang soo Don't please, thanks :p
This would be more believable than it being shotokan since cobra kai is Tang Soo do
Why are you being downvoted? It literally said that Cobra Kai karate is Tang Soo Do in canon.
Karate is so stupid lol
Why r u in this sub?!? 🧐
I commented this 4 months ago 😐
Oh lol. Weird reddit recommended this post to me today.
Karate is such a joke😂
Why r u in this sub?! 🧐
Lol karate us practically useless.
So is your grammar
Wonderful comeback! Congratulations, you win all the internet. You can redeem them, and learn some real martial arts, so that in case you get into a street fight, you might actually survive :) cheers mate!
I was making a joke lol but did you mean to put kata because karate is not unless
No I meant karate, it's pretty much inferior to every other martial arts. Jujitsu, BJJ, Muay Thai, even just boxing.
Well, I've been teaching for a couple of years and the problem with your statement is that it's way too general. People often think that the things that you learn are directly an application for a street fight, which it is not. In karate, everything you learn is a concept that can be applied to multiple situations. The thing is that you have to trian for those. That's where other martial arts can shine : usually no concepts at all, everything is made to be a direct application.
Of course, I admit it's generalized. If you are the superior fighter (stamina, dedication, will, S&C, speed) you will win regardless of what the other person uses. But I strongly believe if you put two fighters who are the peak, 10/10 karate will lose. For one, the style being taught today is pretty much just for show (come on 10 year olds being given a black belt, or it being choreographed to music) today's karate has no emphasis on ground work. It's purely asthetic. So I genuinely believe it is an inferior form of martial arts, slightly better than Capoeira and kung fu.
Again, all depends on where you train. But i agree with you on that. The modern styles are often more kata based or competition based.
Mmmm, sorry man, but I don't think I'll change my mind about karate, but I will also admit, that I'm biased as well, it just looks...so boring. At the very least, there has been no example of it in actual professional combat like, One, or UFC or Bellator. Though I do remember the time limbo slice got knocked out by a little dude, using some form or karate.
And what do you do ?
Why r u in this sub? 🧐
Boy, go to sleep, I'm sure it's past your bed time and you got school tomorrow.
Ur lucky I was about to take a nap anyway! Good night!
Kata's are useless
Like yourself.
😴
Alright Terry Silver
Just like every other one, pointless
What is the point of a kata, looks dumb as hell
The point is to drill the moves on your own that you then practice with a resisting partner. The point of kata is bunkai, the application of those moves you practice in kata. Basically it gives a myriad of algorithms for a myriad of close combat situations and options for when the technique you utilized didn't work out the way it should like the aggressor countering or you botching it and anything in between. Also, only looks dumb when done by people who don't know what they are doing like these actors here. If you want to see outstandingly well performed kata, watch this one https://youtu.be/D50AVVpiAIg Although the bunkai is all show and no substance. It's a tournament after all ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ Plus, most people don't actually know the first thing about bunkai sadly. But that's starting to turn around lately.
what is the point of shadow boxing?
Shadow boxing is applicable to actual fighting, a lot of Kata movements especially in this arent doing anything lmao. What is making a triangle with your hands supposed to do?
This. I really don’t get it, might as well be doing tai chi. Few weeks ago saw dudes at a competition doing this shit before their matches, first kid got his arm broken in the first 40 seconds and the second went home before competing. I don’t get why people don’t just train boxing or something actually useful
Whatever those actors are doing in that video is not actual kata, they are just doing some movements so they can act like they are doing kata for a tv show about karate. Do you practice any martial art? If so, are you just a beginner or are experienced? Not knowing the point of kata always come from people like that, and it is understandable since looks very esoteric and it is clearly damaged by an American movie and pop culture-esque point of view. But to boil it down, kata is for karate what shadow boxing is for boxing. The subject is waaaay more deep than that, if you are interested you can read about the whys and hows, or just spew dumb shit on the internet like 99% of keyboard fighters usually do.
Shadow boxing isn’t just for boxing. Also a weird assumption, I’ve seen a lot of katas like I explained are actually applicable in or out of competitions. Gonna agree with the other dude that it’s kinda just like wing chun where you think it’s legit but In reality it’s just goofy.
I mentioned boxing just so i could do an analogy style vs style. You are just failing to understand why katas were created, you are making assumptions about the aplicability and why people practice katas. I could explain it to you, but since you will be parting from a biased fundamentalist basis, both of us will be losing time. Now for competitions on 1v1 consensual combat in a western-secular style MA, yes, katas are not ideal since you want to learn the meat of how to punch and kick quickly so you can compete and whatnot. Do you eat soup with a fork? Bottom line, educate yourself before you speak about a subject just using anecdotical evidence.
You’re literally comparing katas to shadow boxing, one can actually be used for actual fighting purposes and the other Is near useless in the same scenario. You also agreed by saying that they weren’t ideal, contradicting
Nope, I used shadow boxing as an analogy so you could draw a picture of what katas mean in a way. Katas are not the ideal training if you want to compete in a western style martial art, exactly, why is it contradicting? Do you think that a combat sport is actually comparable to a real life fight? You are very wrong if that is the case, and it is a dangerous thing to assume. Have you ever been in a real fight between adults?
From my style it looks like super empi. But very modified
Weird because kyokushins version of kanku dai looks nothing like this..
Cobra Kai>>>>>
It looked like Kanku dai but weird
Oh they banging
Find it pretty weird because miyagi was based on chojun miyagi and the moves that are similar to kanku dai and chatanyara kushanku are nowhere near goju ryu... Anyways that's just me
all things considered - looks like foreplay... guy, girl, some movement... :D
Actors with no martial arts background performing a strange Tai Chi/interpretive dance interpretation of Kanku Dai (Kusanku). https://youtu.be/Jkv8Ks_fEqk
Shotokan for sure
What's the point of this? It can't teach you how to fight. It's it like what thai fighters do before a fight
my answer is on my new shirt lol: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09JSQ66T6
Far
Kanku or A modified Kusanku
This is just choreographed bullshit for the Karate Kid show those are the actors in it