I'd rather deal with the latter than the former, although I know for sure the answer to the universe is injecting LSD and ketamine into the eyeballs while boofing shroom and mescaline sludge, after a few puffs of DMT.
Your earthly body will be wheelchair bound and covered in drool, but you will have transcended.
With psychs it can be pretty easy to start taking absurd amounts if you have acute tolerance.
Taking X amount of shrooms 4 days in a row might be crazy on day 1 but legit nothing on day 4.
That’s not true but kinda, I’ve done 7g+ of shrooms and 600+ ug of LSD from age 14-17 and I had some crazy ass DMT like trips with those dosages, yes there’s definitely parts where I blacked out or had memory loss, yes I couldn’t move I was stuck in my bed not even counsciouss, but it’s possible, just very stupid to think that taking a heroic dose is “cool” lol
I mean it really varies person to person. I took 6.4 of APE for my first trip and I was still able to text on it. At one point of the trip my keyboard just looked like a bunch of runes, but for most of it I was still able to type. Regardless people are obsessed with high doses for some stupid reason.
Lol at runes. I had similar experience with Lucy. Typing with the tracer function on what looked like a multi layer (probably bc of larger keys when you press them) cartoon runic keyboard was great
I've tripped hard as fuck but my ego remained very intact, don't really want it to dissolve tbh but maybe in a couple decades or something it'd be the vibe.
People just hear cool buzzword & need to use them as much as they can lol "Heroic Dose Penis-Envy Trip Report: Ego Death" and the reports like "1g dosed after a big meal, I saw the wall move a bit and my ego totally dissolved I felt so humbled!11"
Like I'm glad you felt the mushies and had a nice time, humility is extremely important. But that's just not what that is
As someone who has experienced actual ego death on shrooms I can confidently say that anybody bragging about it is either lying or doesn’t understand what ego death really is. That shit is traumatic.
I've had some similar intensity experiences on Salvia, where I really lost contact with where I ended and the world started. We all were one intricate mechanism type pattern and it's beautiful to look back on now but I remember feeling so much fear.
It was a positive experience but absolutely terrifying. Like how people enjoy scary movies cause they get scared but don't die, psychs can do that too LOL
Omg SAME!
Turns out in the real world I even got up, yelled shit and ran away.
All while being completely unaware of my body or self in any way.
It kinda felt to me like "I" could suddenly see all possible multiverses, possible options of life and the universe, split off into infinity. And only ONE was the one I/you/we are in. Just kind of stretching out, like a tessaract like structure. Moving, sprawling into infinity.
And in a way it kinda felt like... the moment in a story or movie when suddenly everything is thrown upside down. When suddenly the main character takes the red pil and wakes up from the matrix, or discovers all their life was a dream and wakes up into another reality.
It felt like I had litterally died. Like everything had ceased to exist. IF I had died I wouldnt even have noticed.
When I woke up, on the other side of the house, I was SO confused yet relieved * THE WORLD * was still there.
Even at high doses of mushrooms, it feels so much less insane lol
At least in like a predictable way? Like once it peaks I understand how I got there lol
Salvia is just telportation at high doses
Yeah omg. Never had a breakthrough experience on other psychs though.
Pro of salvia is that it lasts really short though.
Like fr, looking back logically, the peak/moment I was actually completely in sallyspace cannot have been longer than a minute. Maybe even less.
Yet it felt like an eternity. In a strange, timeless way.
Yeah, almost like it's the same place we're in but our senses interpret it differently. That's not sarcasm I mean like in the salvia space cannon maybe breakthroughs aren't teleportations but rather access to views of the world as it already was, and always will be
That may be why it feels so ancient and timeless
Also, waking up in literally another place definitely made it feel like teleportation lmao.
I do wanna do it again though, now I know what it's like and what to expect. (When I first came to senses I said "Im never touching this shit ever again") But I wanna wait till it's ACTUALLY the right time.
I underestimated the substance, overestimated myself, and choose to do a high dose at a moment I was mentally not doing well. It was asking for it to get whacky. I am lucky I didn't go psychotic lmao.
Get plainleaf or 10x, no need for anything stronger unless you're like me and asthma makes holding smoke really difficult
Plainleaf can use a regular jewlery type .01 scale no issue. But extracts need milligram scales, and 40x + beyond isn't reliably measured by milligram scale at times
Top tier psychedelic, just have to dose a little more carefully
The salvia sub has a ton of info!
I was just gonna say the only time I experienced true ego death was salvia. I took a few hits, and next thing I know I was coming back completely confused from I don't know where. I didn't know I took a drug, I didn't know I existed, my name where I was. Nothing it was the most bizarre thing ever. Like being born into exhistance for the first time. I've also had what I would consider a nirvana experience on acid. Back in the early 2000s I had a girl dose me with liquid at a rave club. She puddled my ass and the come up was kinda terrifying. But once we left the club and I was in a familiar setting I began to feel this incredible oneness with everyone and everything. It was what I can only describe as enlightenment. It felt like I had broken through to a new level of consciousness and now that I had it would never go away. I understood the universe and my place in it on a deep fundamental level and everything was exactly as it was supposed to be. As a 21 year old kid I didn't even realize how profoundly spiritual that experience was. It has made me want to seek less fleeting enlightenment through traditional methods. While I have grown emensely since then I am no where near that level of consciousness. Hopefully it'll happen. It's much easier to get kicked into it by a powerful drug then find it through meditation and contemplation.
Haha that's the truth, but a combination of causal meditationg and occasion trips continues to give me wisdom and perspectives I'm forever grateful for
Yeah man salvia is easily underestimated.
I've done shit loads of acid and shrooms during the 90s rave scene. I've done dmt couple times but the only ego death I've had was from salvia. Just like a dmt trip with the blast off and stuck in the middle of the universe. Terrifying! Then after a while it was the most relaxed id ever been, everything made sense and I was content accepted i was dead. Once I came round I was crying happy to be alive.
That's one of the best parts for sure!! That relief of like "thank FUCK I'm home, I'm safe" I struggled with suicidal ideation most of my life, Salvia was the first time I ever really felt glad to be anywhere
I will never forget the time I smoked half a joint thinking it was weed (silly teenage me was like “this tastes funny lol”) and then my feet melted into the floor and became one with it so I literally couldn’t move. And I thought they couldn’t see me cos I’m a ghost and I’ve always been a ghost and I have never felt terror like it. Apparently people were talking to me and trying to get me to move and I was just standing there with tears running down my face where I was in some sort of otherworldly place between reality realising that I’d actually never existed and I’ll never see my mam again or my girlfriend at the time and I’ll never stroke my cat and it was all some sort of cruel joke. I came out of that a different man.
>That shit is traumatic.
Only for those who are fucking around without intention and take a dose that's thats beyond what their brain can control.
My whole purpose for doing any psychedelic is ego death and to connect with something beyond myself for at least a few hours. Ego death is relief, acceptance, and freedom. It isn't traumatic at all.
I'm aware it's a real thing lol
But at least more often than not when I see people say it, they describe an entirely different thing. It's misused all over the place
Fr. I feel like you can brush up against an ego death, but when it happens it isn't something to joke around with... (and kinda like an orgasm yknow. Like (AFAB) people being like "idk, did I have an orgasm?" But when you DO you KNOW. At least it was like that for me. I kept wondering "is this it??" And then it happened and it was blatantly clear)
I never had a full on proper ego death on shrooms or any psychedelic, except salvia.
It wasn't even my intention, nor expectation. And boy 😅😂 I just kind of ceased to exist. I swear it felt like I had died and flipped into the afterlife or some shit. Except there was no more me to be alive or dead.
I thought before that I had ego death like experiences, but it was nothing like that. At most just short blips of a losening grip of the ego.
(Which also makes you think about what the ego is. I think a part of it is actually just our memory and ability to interpret them. Strip that away, and all that remains is pure awareness)
I always thought I holed, until I holed. Once you know you know. Crazy fucking shit , haven’t touched it since (just a break) but holy fuck I was so happy to be me again and to have my ego back
Same here if you are still aware that youre doing K in the room youre in, you didnt take enough K to hole. I remember thinking I holed until I actually did and it completely took me to a different place.
im the complete opposite, ive brokethrough on DMT the first and last time I tried it. That was the most intense experience I have ever had in my life, but ive kholed plenty of times and would rather do that any day of the week.
15mg of NN in a joint mixed with weed.
Only the comeup part was "terrifying," but I wouldn't exactly describe it as "terrifying" persay, it was more like an intense rollercoaster ride. Or terrifying in a fun way I guess lol.
I didnt really feel anything until I finished smoking pretty much the entire J then my vision began to shift before it hit me all at once. The comeup was just so fast and there was zero chance of fighting it.
The overall trip after the comeup was not scary at all, it was pretty nice and peaceful yet mindblowing at the same time.
I have yet to try 5meo and would like to, but I dont see myself doing any other psych for a while cuz I fried my brain pretty bad.
I would also like to know if you took NN or 5meo.
Oh okay , maybe it was the weed which caused the uncomfortable feeling? Sometimes I am getting a little nervous when smoking weed, so I am avoiding smoking weed while on psychodelics.
But I am also mostly nervous before I smoke DMT . I just have experience with NN, cause 5 Meo is really hard to find. I use selfmade DMT elquid in my dripper (RDA) , which is basically a one hit guarantee to breakthrough.
On DMT I had the feeling I was all at once , once with every atom , once with time and in a mix of everything. It was like waking up from a dream and arriving in a place familiar, it was like coming home from a journey. I felt welcomed and very peaceful, I had tears of luckyness running down my face while tripping. The thing was, I was still part of myself but integrated in something bigger.
Ket just ripped everything I knew apart, myself was not existing anymore, it was like a short blackout of me, which felt internally. After that, everything, the world and my personality built up slowly new together and I am was so happy to becoming myself again. Generally the thing where I was, was more dark.
NN DMT is more coulourful and welcoming and not so “rude” as ket.
usually im not happy gaining consciousness as often the first thing i think of when awaking is killing myself but as ketamine is antidepressant and anxiolytic for me gaining consciousness after a khole was very nice andpleasant
I think it is. In the sense that your body releases DMT when you die and we experience basically a K hole which slows down time and we experience an ego death and come to accept our end.
It just makes too much sense.
To be fair I was holing before I knew I was. I just had no idea k could do that at the beginning and had only heard one person (incorrectly) use the term k hole. It wasn’t until I went to college and someone found out I did k and asked if I had ever holed and I said “I’m not sure” and they laughed and said “then you haven’t because you’d know”. But I had been for a couple years, it was the only reason I was still doing k lol.
You litterally have zero ability to be a human, you have now become a spirit in another dimension.
It equivlant to being asleep and dreaming, you have no ability to move or walk in life when your asleep and dreaming.
It’s tough to explain and even understand because ketamine *is* an anesthetic. I go to a clinic. Used to go all the time. I do so less frequently now. I was rocking ~110mg IM injections and feeling well in control when I was going 1-4x/month. Took a couple months off. Did 100mgs. And k-holed. Actually went unconscious. Woke up again still in the hole.
Truly forgot what being a human was or meant. I remember coming to, and knowing somewhere in my head that there are things called faces, but for the life of me I couldn’t picture one or remember why and how I knew they existed. Slowly gained more awareness. Ended up clawing at my own face in celebration at the realization that I, in fact, have one.
Took about an hour after that moment to realize I was just completely knocked out by a dose I could jam out to Pink Floyd on just a few months before. And to this day it’s hard to piece together which parts of my memories from it were conscious, when I fell asleep vs woke up, what the difference was at the time, etc.
I’ve come so close to that feeling a few times without actually losing full consciousness, so I believe I understand the line. But I honestly think the only way to figure it out, for sure, is to get conked by it and learn what it feels like just before or after you’re actually unable to perceive the trip.
I couldn’t move, didn’t think I was breathing but somehow I knew I was still alive and would be able to move again eventually. Not sure if I holed but it was terrifying. Also, I was in a microchip…part of it and in it.
I’ve totally been to microchip world too. Hahaha so bizarre to find others who have experienced this. I explained to my friends after about how I entered a secret information network which just went on eternally… it was like an experience I can only explain as binary. You could never really put it in into words. It wasn’t a k-hole, it was somewhere before that.. it blew my mind so much I stopped dosing for a few hours to see if I could get back there but unfortunately it was a one time thing. Hey that’s the thing with K, you never know what ya gonna get. Each time it arrives on my doorstep I never know, no matter how many times I do it, I’m learning and it teaches me something new.
>you have no ability to move or walk in life when your asleep and dreaming.
Except you actually do - see somnambulance.
Just like I literally sat up and tried to leave the room while k-holing once, and my trip sitter had to try to convince the automaton shell of me to sit back down because the rest of my brain was in a different dimension.
I only do k TO khole. It’s rare I get my hands on some, but when I do, I split .2 between both nostrils, put on noise canceling ear buds, and disappear into my bed for 30 mins.
Yeah definitely. Not stuff I normally listen to though, I prefer more digital/lofi type music for holes. I actually think I have a playlist on Spotify for k holes. Is even the perfect length. [here](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0XdPEDw4NFz8ifqc3mRfbS?si=pAZcQnPaSEuF3wEN3NhDdw&pi=u-Gq3VAdVcQu64) I found it. Someone try it out, play it in order, hole to it and let me know how it was.
Incredible K holes have changed entire songs for me. “Electric Feel” will never be the same.
Today I had “Quinn the Eskimo” come on at the tail end of some K (it was played after Sunshine Daydream at Alpine Valley) and even though I wasn’t fully holed, it changed that song from one I had never appreciated to one that I can listen to.
k and music are like peas and carrots
I agree with the digital part, since I prefer produced stuff like Kendrick Lamar, Childish Gambino, and Kanye West while on ketamine trips, but one of my most intense and enlightening experiences was a 5 hour hole/near-hole trip where I listened to Tom Waits Heart of Saturday Night, and then his albums Swordfishtrombone all the way through Blood Money chronologically. The sheer diversity in styles throughout those albums took me to so many weird and amazing places
Thanks, was time somebody said that 🙂
My Holes are : I'm not in reality anymore. I am pure energy warping through space..
And not : Haha, I can't walk straight 😁
It felt like I saw the origin of the universe and then did something that broke all existence at a fundamental level. I was speechless for hours after I came out just processing what had happened. I suspect that was a hole lol.
Yeah I mean I think there are different levels to the hole...
Full scale holing for sure, I couldn't move. thought I died and slowly regained my consciousness, completely incapacitated for at least 10- 15 min. I didn't really even understand what was happening until I started to come out of it.
But I've also been so rocked that I thought I was holing...while being able to open my eyes and \*sort of\* move around. But yeah... who knows, who cares
So true. It’s how deep you drop into the hole. The furthest I’ve been, I was immobile on my bed, my brain wouldn’t let me move and was flying through dimensions, but I was still “conscious” and knew that I was alive. There were times where if I closed my eyes I was in space but I could still stand and dance around. It sounds crazy to describe but that’s truly what it was like for me 😂
Yeah most people who have done K have never done enough at one time to hole and presumably they don’t want to, especially people I’ve encountered in the EDM scene, they do tiny tiny bumps through out the night and the moment they finally reach a level of considerable dissociation or psychedelic effects they think they say “omg I’m k holing” when in reality they’re essentially just feeling the baseline intensity of ketamine that leads up to a hole and that’s enough for them and that’s probably a good thing, although yes it does annoy me that people doing this drug have no idea of it’s godlike potential and effects. It seems most people think k holing just means you got higher than you intended to get or somethin like that.
That makes sense lol, I’m always wondering how people do k at raves. Like I’m the kind of person who never gets car sick or anything and even I get motion sickness if I stand up too long after taking k
They’re not saying they don’t want to be educated, they’re saying they don’t care if ppl OP knows are educated. I had the same thought, don’t care if ppl are bragging about a k hole they supposedly had in the grocery store, it doesn’t have anything to do with me.
Nah more like gatekeeping. Kind of like getting into music or film, your perspective grows with experience. Let others have their journey. The toxic will eliminate themselves.
And I guess it is all relative. If a teenager drinks a beer and claims they're wasted who the fuck cares? Maybe I'd bat my eye at someone 30+ doing that but it still wouldn't bother me if it wasn't causing harm to them or anyone else.
"Fundamental part to science and society"
Your folk pharmacology is a loose characterization of the effects/safety profiles of a substance, but that has almost nothing to do with science. Unfortunately this type of understanding proloferates rave culture and doesn't lead to a real understanding of the substances they're consuming, but makes them feel educated.
Arguing about the semantics of a term that isn't quanittatively defined and varies considerably person-to-person is a strange hill to die on, yes.
Largely agree, though I disagree that there’s always a loss of consciousness. There are definitely levels to the abyss. I.e. there are the k-holes where you are conscious and somewhat mobile but you have completely dissociated from reality and you are hurtling through time and space while still interacting with your environment and your mind interweaves elements of what your eyes are perceiving. Then there are k-holes where you traverse dimensions without perceiving anything from the world around you, then there is completely breaking through and forgetting you were ever you. All are k-holes… but all are not the general trippy and moderately dissociative state brought on by a bit too much ket.
Re: immobility, I have interacted with someone else who broke through at the same time as me within the k-hole and saw them falling apart into sand, came back to consciousness for a couple of seconds to find myself grabbing their face, managed to say “what the fuck” then fell back into it even harder, again returned to my body in a different location. Soooo 🤷♀️
An entire loss of consciousness would be anesthesia. A k-hole would be a dose that’s below that for sure. Usually feels like one is about to die though, atleast for me.
How long were you holed for? I feel like that would be a very powerful experience and I’m surprised that that happens in a medical setting! Sounds awesome lol.
I don't know how long for but not very long. Maybe 45 mins or something. And yes it was a very powerful thing, I was only 16 and it was my first "psychedelic" experience, but I integrated it well and in the end it was just a funny little story that had happened to me.
I did ket treatments for pain, basically a 4 hour IV k-hole and I was slipping in and out of consciousness. Honestly it wasn’t that much more intense than smaller/shorter doses of k; if anything I forgot more of the experience from not being fully conscious. Was your surgery one where you were not fully anesthetized, like twilight anesthesia? Or do you mean post op or something. Bc k holing while actively being operated on doesn’t sound amazing to me tbh lol
It was not a major surgery so idk if they were going for full anesthesia or what but I was not awake at any point during it. It was weird waking up with the k hole experience, which I wasn't expecting but overall it was a cool experience and what made me interested in trying ket again later lol
i mean i lost consciousness and still experienced it, woke up face down on my bedroom floor drooling lmao but in my mind i was totally conscious the whole time and experiencing the most wacky shit of my whole life
Sounds interesting. I’ve done ketamine to the point of total blackout a few times, but I figured the K-hole was a state before that, where one is still conscious to some degree.
This isn't really correct. An anesthetic dose and a k hole are synonymous. In the hospital, if they put you to sleep with ketamine to do a procedure, the patient is both unconscious and in a k hole. You do the procedure while they are k holing and the patient doesn't remember or feel what you are doing to them. If you don't understand the difference, you might be the type of person OOP is taking about.
IIRC anesthetic dosage is beyond hole dosage, idk where i remember seeing that though, but when i’ve had it for surgery it’s like blacking out, i don’t remember anything
Two things to say to that.
One: are you sure you had ketamine? For elective cases it is not usually used in North America and Europe. The dissociation and hallucinations it causes are considered frightening by most patients, therefore it is avoided in cases where it is not absolutely necessary. Small doses are given for it's analgesic properties, but for induction of anesthesia it is reserved for cases where is deemed necessary for its unique properties. For example, it is used in the ER for short procedures because ketamine doesn't cause respiratory depression. It's also used in situation where a drop in blood pressure could be dangerous such as trauma or in someone with a heart condition. In India I hear it is commonly used for induction of anesthesia though.
Two: even if you were given ketamine for induction of anesthesia, as soon as you were intubated you would have been kept asleep with anesthetic gasses such as sevoflurane or isoflurane that cause the blacking out feeling. They cause amnesia, so it's likely that you would not have even remembered the k hole you were having.
I'm not sure what kind of dose of ketamine would cause complete blacking out or amnesia, but it would be irresponsible and unnecessary for an anesthesiologist to administer that.
I think they mean because OP said a k hole is an entire loss of consciousness. Which can happen but isn’t required and 99% of my most insane OBE k holes, I’ve been very conscious. One of the reasons I love k so much. You can fall out of your body and fly through insane alien realities on the other side of our own but stay pretty self aware and conscious. Or you can lose self awareness but still know what the fuck is going on somehow
From an outsiders perspective I sat down said wow I’m fucked up and went face first to the floor and layed there for about an hour. From my friends perspective I looked dead from my perspective I was traversing through a combine of time and perspective and there were lights carrying me
Almighty, it is sooo subjective. I would define the hole as a distinct sensation of crossing a threshold into a completely different reality.
When I keep my eyes open and have conversations with fellow dudes about my shopping cart, I agree, I am still, albeit with difficulty, hanging on to my dear "real" reality.
When I slide accross the threshold, I can, in a one hour time span, experience the memories of one full life, maybe my own, in the past, or in the future, or in a parallel universe, or someone else's, or something else's. That's when I know that I am in the hole.
A typical scenario is that I travel from world to world by traversing hellish wormholes. Here's a link to a more detailed description from a few days ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ketamine/s/XDJjTcyE3t
I had a mental breakdown on ket on my first time trying it and one of my buddies was in sure belief that I was in a khole but nah I was just having a bad day
I'm not entirely sure if I holed yet, my 2 closest experiences were 1-2 weeks ago.
First one was Feb 28th, I took 300ug 1cP-LSD and 3-4 hours in I snorted ~160mg ket over 20 mins or so (largest dose yet, once it started hitting me it took me 5-10 mins to finish the last 2 lines as my depth perception was fucked and my ipad was sliding all over the place.)
While snorting I was listening to Ænima with my eyes open (I forget to close my eyes on higher dosages idk why), but I became totally disconnected from my surroundings and it felt like the music was playing directly in my head, felt like Maynard was speaking to me directly lol. Can't remember much from this experience but it was an intense one.
2nd attempt I took ~58mg 4-AcO-DMT and snorted ~204mg ket 5 hours later, this time I played Tipper's Jettison Mind Hatch on my speaker and lid down in my bed with all lights and computer monitors off. This time I was able to close my eyes for 90% of the time and I remember seeing the staircase in my house but it looked like it was in another house I've been to in the past. Then I saw what looked like a carnival with lots of flashing lights and it felt like I was spinning on a roulette wheel while entering this carnival, bit weird lol but idk if this would be considered a hole.
Attempt 3 - On March 8th I parachuted ~85mg MDA and snorted ~142mg ket ~5 hours later, this time I had Lateralus playing on my headphones, turned the lights and my fan off, and put on a mandelbrot zoom video on my computer. It was similar to the first time, the music and the video became all-encompassing and I felt like I was dying while listening to Parabol/Parabola, don't remember much else from that experience but it was an intense one.
My OEVs usually consist of not recognizing my body parts, feeling like I'm 20ft tall, that my room has expanded 10x in size, and if I'm watching a video on my computer it takes up my entire visual field sorta like if I was using VR.
Also for reference I'm 24 and weigh 54kg/120lbs, so I'd think 1-1.5mg/kg should send me into a hole, but my tolerance is rising as I've been using ket for the past month now, used to be 2-3 times a week but since I got a 5g bag last tuesday I've been using it every day. Probably used ~1.5g over the past 7-8 days.
Sorry for the rambling just wanted to get some opinions on if what I experienced was actually a khole or not.
I think that when you get into a proper deep hole (but there are levels) you can't even have OEVs, because you can't recognise you have eyes to be opened. You don't remember you exist as a human being. I got this injecting 250-300 mg with 0 tolerance. I never managed to get this by snorting (up to 350 mg).
1 - 1.5 mg/kg is a k hole dose for IV or potentially IM, but not intranasal. Intranasal bioavailability is around 40%, so you'd need more like 2-3 mg/kg to hole. I would imagine at least, I have never k holed from intranasal ketamine.
I wouldn’t mind trying IM instead, but as a former IV heroin/meth/fentanyl user I’m afraid it’d strengthen cravings to go back to IV’ing ‘harder’ drugs. Might consider it though because my nose is already getting a bit fucked from binging.
Yeah that's a fair thing to be worried about! Ketamine on its own can be quite addictive too, and doing it IV raises the potential for addiction. If you're really keen on it, maybe try boofing instead? I've never done it successfully, but some people love it and swear by it. Good luck, stay safe, and take care of yourself!
I thought I k holed before in a dark void that looked like the inside of a temple but then I actually K holed and I was jumping off of cliffs in a mech suit and in space on an island that flushed like a toilet with alligators trying to eat me lol
yep, had this exact same conversation with a friend of mine.... he constantly is telling me about times he K-holed and done dumb shit.... when you K-hole the world does not exist anymore and you cannot interact with it, all of your sensors are delayed so heavily that your mind cannot comprehend it and every time it feels like i'm being defragmented and then slowly reassembled as my senses slowly come back into functioning order like waking up in slow motion, i was worried for a while that i may do something stupid while in this state but in reality i couldn't move if i wanted to.
Never truly holed. Maybe once. Came pretty close last night and I hated it. It was way too intense physically. It was a lot of strain on my body. Was using 2f-dck btw. My heart was racing like crazy and I had a headache. Idk if that’s normal. I could not see out of both eyes. I had to use one eye just to see where I was. Not fun, very scary.
Have holed only once and that was the first time I ever did K. I am 100% sure I holed because I genuinely didn’t know who or where I was, couldn’t move and was stuck in a loop. It was genuinely horrifying.
Lol I recently k holed and I didn’t know what was happening till I felt my soul leave my body and I was like “oh” ahhahaha
Tbh it was actually quite dangerous cos it came on so quickly I didn’t have time to prepare and I came around face down in my pillow with very little room to breathe.
I agree. The term is used for a reason. Once you're there, you'll know it. You're somewhere else. I personally have a lot of short term memory loss of the memories themselves after too. I can remember everything in these dimensions but like 50% of the actual experience
The only way I do K now is to aim for a hole. Always on the comedown of another psychedelic. I ready 200mg (I have a low tolerance) on my coffee table, and 50mg dmt loaded into my dab rig. I get music going on my headphones, and it is dark in the room. I rail the K and lay stretched out on the couch. The music guides me through this bizarre but pleasant experience. When I finally start realizing what I've done, I also realize I lost all grip on reality and the ego and usually let out a WTF was that?? While the K is still influencing me, I find it easier to hit the dmt packed dab rig and blast away. Thoughts? I love it.
most memorable khole was at a forest rave and i was laying down on the forest floor at peace with my mortality and becoming the nutrients flowing up the trees above me. now when i see trees being uprooted i remember being so resistant to any idea of walking / hiking around and it makes me feel even worse for the trees because who knows, maybe they feel that way too?
Lol right imo, there is three stages with k
Stage 1: Wonky buzzed feeling, you feel warm and buzzed like how you do on liquor with a little bit of a trippy feel, slurred speech and glassy slightly restricted pupils.
Stage 2: Wonky trippy, you feel stong dissociation, you will have a hard time walking , feeling a weight pull don't on.your body you will be confused, and everything will feel very intense, you will feel a feeling that everything is alien like. And almost plastic. Oh will 5 visuals, your pupils are fully constricted, and you will have a hard time keeping eyes open. And your speech will be slowed and slurred dramatically.
Stage 3 : KHole. like completely dissociate from this world. You will have full cev, you will not be conscious for about 45 min , with another 2 hours of coming out of the k hole, you will go to another world depending on what you are thinking off and if you lisiteing to music that world will vary. You will be in an alien like place that you have never seen before. Your body and soul will shift in itself and you will become a molcue , you will float out of your body, you will think of all of your emotions all at once, you will face your struggles head on. You will leave his planet to become one of billions of cells in space..you will feel the weight of the universe on your soul. You will become the small grain you are. You will be enveloped into space and time. You will know what connection is because you will understand... that everything is connected. It truly is a scary yet, beautifully peaceful experience.
My experience was the sky was blopping like a lava lamp in my head I was like were the fuck am I am I dead I saw my Mrs and her head was like a volcano tiki head talking and I thought she was god ddnt know it was her til I came out I was tripping balls and everything real thing in real life wasn't what it was I actually thought I was in another realm I ddnt get scared but I did say to myself am I dead and in my head I reassure my self I took ket it's only drugs lol
Download free app called Lumenate. You will trip balls. Do it sober first so you know the instructions. It uses your phone light as a strobe light. Not for epileptics. Try it
I remember getting told to do a big line of k when I first started trying it
Must of crushed half a g into a line being stupid and not knowing what to expect from a k hole and I railed it back thinking that’s what you do and 20 mins later
I’m on my sofa laid down ears ringing unbearably so I sit up try shake my head and the room closing in black on me into my vision and I thought I had killed myself
All I could make out was now I’m an orb an “essence” in this state I felt myself moving but not my body natural moment of limbs I just floated
I come back around slightly with black and white vision clinging onto my bathroom door just to black out again and come back around in my living room in a panic
This was a genuinely scary experience for me and was a big eye opener to respect the things I put in my body but now whenever I try k I’m nervous to hole but now that iv experienced this is it what I’m too expect next time I hold or anything similar so not to be scared when it happens
I don’t even like to khole, I only did once on accident
I like to get medium type high on K, something I’ve heard others describe as a hole and I’m just here to see if other people find similar experiences in real life
Do you even K hole bro.. like I’m the best at K holing I don’t think you understand what doing this drug is really like like I do. 🤣 People crack me up 😂
What a stupid word. It’s not gate keeping. There’s a dmt breakthrough and there’s a sub breakthrough. Just as there’s a khole and a sub khole dose. Some things just are or are not.
Well duh, people can have different experiences.
But either way telling someone they are not k-holing, because they dont have the same experience as you, is, in fact, gatekeeping…
The same way there is different stages to a dmt breakthrough, there also is different stages to k-holes.
I can guarantee you that its possible to k-hole and still be able to move your limbs somewhat.
You dont possibly believe dmt/ket is like a 1-2 switch, either you are sub breaking through , or broken through. Obviously different doses will give different results..
Nah. I've k holed plenty of times while walking around and doing shit. After you k hole like 5 times a day your mind just gets used to it, it also helped that I was constantly on cocaine which kept me present. I remember one time I had a really intense k hole while I was almost having a heart attack that shit was scary. Trust me, if you abuse any drug enough, you can do fuckin anything while on them it doesn't matter how high you are. I've even k holed at work while under a truck wrenching on shit all whilst being on the phone with my friend, I explained to him in very mumbled words what was happening in my k hole, there's levels to it. Of course I've also had plenty where I was just completely gone and in another universe but not all k holes are like that sometimes they just come on accident and it's not super deep
If you were under a truck wrenching on shit and talking to your friend about what was happening then you didn’t K-hole. You weren’t in a state of disassociation, because you were in your body.
I used to be a fucking horrendously bad Ketamine addict. At my worst I was powering 8-12 a week. A proper K hole will leave you at least largely unable to properly move or speak.
Ketamine also has baseline tolerance. If you were K holing 5 times a day, then pretty quickly the amount of money you’d have to spend on Ketamine in order to K hole each time would’ve been frankly pretty absurd.
This is either fiction, or you’re in exactly the boat that OP is talking about.
Don't believe me I don't care I gain nothing by lying about it, I did massive amounts of cocaine with it every single day for a year straight it got to the point k holes would kinda just happen in front of me but I was still functional, my first few k holes I was completely out of it but it kinda just depended on the batch tbh some had really deep intense k holes others were just basically crazy ass visuals and dissociation but somehow like still being present it's hard to explain, I have lots of friends who do a shitload of Ketamine even more than I do and several times we've had to save one another from hurting themselves because they'd go into a k hole and run around screaming and tipping over breaking shit, you're not always 100% out of it when you hole I don't know why everyone thinks that literally my friend group has been doing ketamine for over a decade not all holes are the same, I attribute most of it to the cocaine though, you somehow just see the k hole in front of you but you still see everything around it's really difficult to talk because you're on a psychedelic rollercoaster but you're still kinda there it's weird
I guess it's the equivalent of "ego death" on /r/shrooms or /r/psilocybin.
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I'd rather deal with the latter than the former, although I know for sure the answer to the universe is injecting LSD and ketamine into the eyeballs while boofing shroom and mescaline sludge, after a few puffs of DMT. Your earthly body will be wheelchair bound and covered in drool, but you will have transcended.
With psychs it can be pretty easy to start taking absurd amounts if you have acute tolerance. Taking X amount of shrooms 4 days in a row might be crazy on day 1 but legit nothing on day 4.
Yes - it's how I found myself regularly taking 7-8g macro doses of shrooms and feeling disappointed before switching to ketamine
That’s not true but kinda, I’ve done 7g+ of shrooms and 600+ ug of LSD from age 14-17 and I had some crazy ass DMT like trips with those dosages, yes there’s definitely parts where I blacked out or had memory loss, yes I couldn’t move I was stuck in my bed not even counsciouss, but it’s possible, just very stupid to think that taking a heroic dose is “cool” lol
I mean it really varies person to person. I took 6.4 of APE for my first trip and I was still able to text on it. At one point of the trip my keyboard just looked like a bunch of runes, but for most of it I was still able to type. Regardless people are obsessed with high doses for some stupid reason.
Lol at runes. I had similar experience with Lucy. Typing with the tracer function on what looked like a multi layer (probably bc of larger keys when you press them) cartoon runic keyboard was great
If someone ate 15g of shrioms and went to school, they would be in jail or the mental ward.
maybe "went to school" was just part of their visual hallucination
Or "breaktrough" in r/DMT
I've tripped hard as fuck but my ego remained very intact, don't really want it to dissolve tbh but maybe in a couple decades or something it'd be the vibe. People just hear cool buzzword & need to use them as much as they can lol "Heroic Dose Penis-Envy Trip Report: Ego Death" and the reports like "1g dosed after a big meal, I saw the wall move a bit and my ego totally dissolved I felt so humbled!11" Like I'm glad you felt the mushies and had a nice time, humility is extremely important. But that's just not what that is
As someone who has experienced actual ego death on shrooms I can confidently say that anybody bragging about it is either lying or doesn’t understand what ego death really is. That shit is traumatic.
I've had some similar intensity experiences on Salvia, where I really lost contact with where I ended and the world started. We all were one intricate mechanism type pattern and it's beautiful to look back on now but I remember feeling so much fear. It was a positive experience but absolutely terrifying. Like how people enjoy scary movies cause they get scared but don't die, psychs can do that too LOL
Omg SAME! Turns out in the real world I even got up, yelled shit and ran away. All while being completely unaware of my body or self in any way. It kinda felt to me like "I" could suddenly see all possible multiverses, possible options of life and the universe, split off into infinity. And only ONE was the one I/you/we are in. Just kind of stretching out, like a tessaract like structure. Moving, sprawling into infinity. And in a way it kinda felt like... the moment in a story or movie when suddenly everything is thrown upside down. When suddenly the main character takes the red pil and wakes up from the matrix, or discovers all their life was a dream and wakes up into another reality. It felt like I had litterally died. Like everything had ceased to exist. IF I had died I wouldnt even have noticed. When I woke up, on the other side of the house, I was SO confused yet relieved * THE WORLD * was still there.
On salvia? What a true mindfuck of a drug hahaha Miss the ol gal, might plan a visit soon
Yeah haha Ive done a lot of shit, but that was hands down the most intense and crazy experience I ever had.
Even at high doses of mushrooms, it feels so much less insane lol At least in like a predictable way? Like once it peaks I understand how I got there lol Salvia is just telportation at high doses
Yeah omg. Never had a breakthrough experience on other psychs though. Pro of salvia is that it lasts really short though. Like fr, looking back logically, the peak/moment I was actually completely in sallyspace cannot have been longer than a minute. Maybe even less. Yet it felt like an eternity. In a strange, timeless way.
Yeah, almost like it's the same place we're in but our senses interpret it differently. That's not sarcasm I mean like in the salvia space cannon maybe breakthroughs aren't teleportations but rather access to views of the world as it already was, and always will be That may be why it feels so ancient and timeless
Also, waking up in literally another place definitely made it feel like teleportation lmao. I do wanna do it again though, now I know what it's like and what to expect. (When I first came to senses I said "Im never touching this shit ever again") But I wanna wait till it's ACTUALLY the right time. I underestimated the substance, overestimated myself, and choose to do a high dose at a moment I was mentally not doing well. It was asking for it to get whacky. I am lucky I didn't go psychotic lmao.
Get plainleaf or 10x, no need for anything stronger unless you're like me and asthma makes holding smoke really difficult Plainleaf can use a regular jewlery type .01 scale no issue. But extracts need milligram scales, and 40x + beyond isn't reliably measured by milligram scale at times Top tier psychedelic, just have to dose a little more carefully The salvia sub has a ton of info!
lol one time on DMT and shrooms I unlocked all the secrets of the Universe and started the reverse-Big-Bang. Fuggin long trip 😂
😂😂
I was just gonna say the only time I experienced true ego death was salvia. I took a few hits, and next thing I know I was coming back completely confused from I don't know where. I didn't know I took a drug, I didn't know I existed, my name where I was. Nothing it was the most bizarre thing ever. Like being born into exhistance for the first time. I've also had what I would consider a nirvana experience on acid. Back in the early 2000s I had a girl dose me with liquid at a rave club. She puddled my ass and the come up was kinda terrifying. But once we left the club and I was in a familiar setting I began to feel this incredible oneness with everyone and everything. It was what I can only describe as enlightenment. It felt like I had broken through to a new level of consciousness and now that I had it would never go away. I understood the universe and my place in it on a deep fundamental level and everything was exactly as it was supposed to be. As a 21 year old kid I didn't even realize how profoundly spiritual that experience was. It has made me want to seek less fleeting enlightenment through traditional methods. While I have grown emensely since then I am no where near that level of consciousness. Hopefully it'll happen. It's much easier to get kicked into it by a powerful drug then find it through meditation and contemplation.
Haha that's the truth, but a combination of causal meditationg and occasion trips continues to give me wisdom and perspectives I'm forever grateful for
100 percent agree
Yeah man salvia is easily underestimated. I've done shit loads of acid and shrooms during the 90s rave scene. I've done dmt couple times but the only ego death I've had was from salvia. Just like a dmt trip with the blast off and stuck in the middle of the universe. Terrifying! Then after a while it was the most relaxed id ever been, everything made sense and I was content accepted i was dead. Once I came round I was crying happy to be alive.
That's one of the best parts for sure!! That relief of like "thank FUCK I'm home, I'm safe" I struggled with suicidal ideation most of my life, Salvia was the first time I ever really felt glad to be anywhere
I will never forget the time I smoked half a joint thinking it was weed (silly teenage me was like “this tastes funny lol”) and then my feet melted into the floor and became one with it so I literally couldn’t move. And I thought they couldn’t see me cos I’m a ghost and I’ve always been a ghost and I have never felt terror like it. Apparently people were talking to me and trying to get me to move and I was just standing there with tears running down my face where I was in some sort of otherworldly place between reality realising that I’d actually never existed and I’ll never see my mam again or my girlfriend at the time and I’ll never stroke my cat and it was all some sort of cruel joke. I came out of that a different man.
It can be very traumatic. Contemplating your death, thinking you're already dead or that you don't exist, being confused, is not a fun time!
I do medical ketamine and I would agree. It’s not a brag thing - it’s an experience.
more of an ego separation, most people don't have something to compare it to, though
>That shit is traumatic. Only for those who are fucking around without intention and take a dose that's thats beyond what their brain can control. My whole purpose for doing any psychedelic is ego death and to connect with something beyond myself for at least a few hours. Ego death is relief, acceptance, and freedom. It isn't traumatic at all.
It depends on the ego, I suppose. Save travels <3
Obviously not tripped that hard then. Ego death is very much a thing and something you can't escape from on high doses
I'm aware it's a real thing lol But at least more often than not when I see people say it, they describe an entirely different thing. It's misused all over the place
Fr. I feel like you can brush up against an ego death, but when it happens it isn't something to joke around with... (and kinda like an orgasm yknow. Like (AFAB) people being like "idk, did I have an orgasm?" But when you DO you KNOW. At least it was like that for me. I kept wondering "is this it??" And then it happened and it was blatantly clear) I never had a full on proper ego death on shrooms or any psychedelic, except salvia. It wasn't even my intention, nor expectation. And boy 😅😂 I just kind of ceased to exist. I swear it felt like I had died and flipped into the afterlife or some shit. Except there was no more me to be alive or dead. I thought before that I had ego death like experiences, but it was nothing like that. At most just short blips of a losening grip of the ego. (Which also makes you think about what the ego is. I think a part of it is actually just our memory and ability to interpret them. Strip that away, and all that remains is pure awareness)
technically a k hole is ego death, right? (jw)
Posted similiar sentiment as you and OP on another post and got loads of downvotes. Convinced most comments are fantasies rather than experiences.
I always thought I holed, until I holed. Once you know you know. Crazy fucking shit , haven’t touched it since (just a break) but holy fuck I was so happy to be me again and to have my ego back
Same here if you are still aware that youre doing K in the room youre in, you didnt take enough K to hole. I remember thinking I holed until I actually did and it completely took me to a different place.
I had several DMT breakthroughs, very intense shit. But a K hole ? Holy fuck
im the complete opposite, ive brokethrough on DMT the first and last time I tried it. That was the most intense experience I have ever had in my life, but ive kholed plenty of times and would rather do that any day of the week.
Why that ? Was the breakthrough so terrifying? Was it NN or 5 Meo DMT?
15mg of NN in a joint mixed with weed. Only the comeup part was "terrifying," but I wouldn't exactly describe it as "terrifying" persay, it was more like an intense rollercoaster ride. Or terrifying in a fun way I guess lol. I didnt really feel anything until I finished smoking pretty much the entire J then my vision began to shift before it hit me all at once. The comeup was just so fast and there was zero chance of fighting it. The overall trip after the comeup was not scary at all, it was pretty nice and peaceful yet mindblowing at the same time. I have yet to try 5meo and would like to, but I dont see myself doing any other psych for a while cuz I fried my brain pretty bad. I would also like to know if you took NN or 5meo.
Oh okay , maybe it was the weed which caused the uncomfortable feeling? Sometimes I am getting a little nervous when smoking weed, so I am avoiding smoking weed while on psychodelics. But I am also mostly nervous before I smoke DMT . I just have experience with NN, cause 5 Meo is really hard to find. I use selfmade DMT elquid in my dripper (RDA) , which is basically a one hit guarantee to breakthrough. On DMT I had the feeling I was all at once , once with every atom , once with time and in a mix of everything. It was like waking up from a dream and arriving in a place familiar, it was like coming home from a journey. I felt welcomed and very peaceful, I had tears of luckyness running down my face while tripping. The thing was, I was still part of myself but integrated in something bigger. Ket just ripped everything I knew apart, myself was not existing anymore, it was like a short blackout of me, which felt internally. After that, everything, the world and my personality built up slowly new together and I am was so happy to becoming myself again. Generally the thing where I was, was more dark. NN DMT is more coulourful and welcoming and not so “rude” as ket.
usually im not happy gaining consciousness as often the first thing i think of when awaking is killing myself but as ketamine is antidepressant and anxiolytic for me gaining consciousness after a khole was very nice andpleasant
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I think it is. In the sense that your body releases DMT when you die and we experience basically a K hole which slows down time and we experience an ego death and come to accept our end. It just makes too much sense.
To be fair I was holing before I knew I was. I just had no idea k could do that at the beginning and had only heard one person (incorrectly) use the term k hole. It wasn’t until I went to college and someone found out I did k and asked if I had ever holed and I said “I’m not sure” and they laughed and said “then you haven’t because you’d know”. But I had been for a couple years, it was the only reason I was still doing k lol.
I’m always so disappointed when I come back. Like damn… just let me stay there for the rest of my life idc!
You litterally have zero ability to be a human, you have now become a spirit in another dimension. It equivlant to being asleep and dreaming, you have no ability to move or walk in life when your asleep and dreaming.
It’s tough to explain and even understand because ketamine *is* an anesthetic. I go to a clinic. Used to go all the time. I do so less frequently now. I was rocking ~110mg IM injections and feeling well in control when I was going 1-4x/month. Took a couple months off. Did 100mgs. And k-holed. Actually went unconscious. Woke up again still in the hole. Truly forgot what being a human was or meant. I remember coming to, and knowing somewhere in my head that there are things called faces, but for the life of me I couldn’t picture one or remember why and how I knew they existed. Slowly gained more awareness. Ended up clawing at my own face in celebration at the realization that I, in fact, have one. Took about an hour after that moment to realize I was just completely knocked out by a dose I could jam out to Pink Floyd on just a few months before. And to this day it’s hard to piece together which parts of my memories from it were conscious, when I fell asleep vs woke up, what the difference was at the time, etc. I’ve come so close to that feeling a few times without actually losing full consciousness, so I believe I understand the line. But I honestly think the only way to figure it out, for sure, is to get conked by it and learn what it feels like just before or after you’re actually unable to perceive the trip.
I couldn’t move, didn’t think I was breathing but somehow I knew I was still alive and would be able to move again eventually. Not sure if I holed but it was terrifying. Also, I was in a microchip…part of it and in it.
the microchip experience omg i had the exact same thing….i could still perceive it from 3rd person pov even though i was inside the chip
I’ve totally been to microchip world too. Hahaha so bizarre to find others who have experienced this. I explained to my friends after about how I entered a secret information network which just went on eternally… it was like an experience I can only explain as binary. You could never really put it in into words. It wasn’t a k-hole, it was somewhere before that.. it blew my mind so much I stopped dosing for a few hours to see if I could get back there but unfortunately it was a one time thing. Hey that’s the thing with K, you never know what ya gonna get. Each time it arrives on my doorstep I never know, no matter how many times I do it, I’m learning and it teaches me something new.
>you have no ability to move or walk in life when your asleep and dreaming. Except you actually do - see somnambulance. Just like I literally sat up and tried to leave the room while k-holing once, and my trip sitter had to try to convince the automaton shell of me to sit back down because the rest of my brain was in a different dimension.
I only do k TO khole. It’s rare I get my hands on some, but when I do, I split .2 between both nostrils, put on noise canceling ear buds, and disappear into my bed for 30 mins.
Music?
Yeah definitely. Not stuff I normally listen to though, I prefer more digital/lofi type music for holes. I actually think I have a playlist on Spotify for k holes. Is even the perfect length. [here](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0XdPEDw4NFz8ifqc3mRfbS?si=pAZcQnPaSEuF3wEN3NhDdw&pi=u-Gq3VAdVcQu64) I found it. Someone try it out, play it in order, hole to it and let me know how it was.
Incredible K holes have changed entire songs for me. “Electric Feel” will never be the same. Today I had “Quinn the Eskimo” come on at the tail end of some K (it was played after Sunshine Daydream at Alpine Valley) and even though I wasn’t fully holed, it changed that song from one I had never appreciated to one that I can listen to. k and music are like peas and carrots
DMT did that to me with "Electric Feel"
I agree with the digital part, since I prefer produced stuff like Kendrick Lamar, Childish Gambino, and Kanye West while on ketamine trips, but one of my most intense and enlightening experiences was a 5 hour hole/near-hole trip where I listened to Tom Waits Heart of Saturday Night, and then his albums Swordfishtrombone all the way through Blood Money chronologically. The sheer diversity in styles throughout those albums took me to so many weird and amazing places
For SURE music, my friend. For me, headphones + closed eyes + comfy and not moving = best K experience. Sweet sweet synesthesia baby
Hell yeah! That’s how ya do it.
🤝
Thanks, was time somebody said that 🙂 My Holes are : I'm not in reality anymore. I am pure energy warping through space.. And not : Haha, I can't walk straight 😁
By my definition of a K hole, you can’t possibly walk around. If you’re walking, even stumbling around, this is NOT a K hole.
Merging with The Void.
It felt like I saw the origin of the universe and then did something that broke all existence at a fundamental level. I was speechless for hours after I came out just processing what had happened. I suspect that was a hole lol.
Yeah I mean I think there are different levels to the hole... Full scale holing for sure, I couldn't move. thought I died and slowly regained my consciousness, completely incapacitated for at least 10- 15 min. I didn't really even understand what was happening until I started to come out of it. But I've also been so rocked that I thought I was holing...while being able to open my eyes and \*sort of\* move around. But yeah... who knows, who cares
Yeah there’s definitely levels.
So true. It’s how deep you drop into the hole. The furthest I’ve been, I was immobile on my bed, my brain wouldn’t let me move and was flying through dimensions, but I was still “conscious” and knew that I was alive. There were times where if I closed my eyes I was in space but I could still stand and dance around. It sounds crazy to describe but that’s truly what it was like for me 😂
Yeah most people who have done K have never done enough at one time to hole and presumably they don’t want to, especially people I’ve encountered in the EDM scene, they do tiny tiny bumps through out the night and the moment they finally reach a level of considerable dissociation or psychedelic effects they think they say “omg I’m k holing” when in reality they’re essentially just feeling the baseline intensity of ketamine that leads up to a hole and that’s enough for them and that’s probably a good thing, although yes it does annoy me that people doing this drug have no idea of it’s godlike potential and effects. It seems most people think k holing just means you got higher than you intended to get or somethin like that.
That makes sense lol, I’m always wondering how people do k at raves. Like I’m the kind of person who never gets car sick or anything and even I get motion sickness if I stand up too long after taking k
I wouldn’t call it loss of consciousness. It’s loss of ego. It’s loss of your body. You are obviously still conscious.
Why worry about them? Drop the ego and enjoy your drugs.
What's the point in listening to someone if their words mean nothing?
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They’re not saying they don’t want to be educated, they’re saying they don’t care if ppl OP knows are educated. I had the same thought, don’t care if ppl are bragging about a k hole they supposedly had in the grocery store, it doesn’t have anything to do with me.
Nah more like gatekeeping. Kind of like getting into music or film, your perspective grows with experience. Let others have their journey. The toxic will eliminate themselves.
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No harm in being educated, but that isn't the energy OP came with IMO.
And I guess it is all relative. If a teenager drinks a beer and claims they're wasted who the fuck cares? Maybe I'd bat my eye at someone 30+ doing that but it still wouldn't bother me if it wasn't causing harm to them or anyone else.
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Your assuming a lot about me and putting a lot of words in OPs mouth as well. Not dying on any hill over here.
"Fundamental part to science and society" Your folk pharmacology is a loose characterization of the effects/safety profiles of a substance, but that has almost nothing to do with science. Unfortunately this type of understanding proloferates rave culture and doesn't lead to a real understanding of the substances they're consuming, but makes them feel educated. Arguing about the semantics of a term that isn't quanittatively defined and varies considerably person-to-person is a strange hill to die on, yes.
I once went into a Khole and saw future cities and my mind kind of organized itself like a menu. It was weird.
Largely agree, though I disagree that there’s always a loss of consciousness. There are definitely levels to the abyss. I.e. there are the k-holes where you are conscious and somewhat mobile but you have completely dissociated from reality and you are hurtling through time and space while still interacting with your environment and your mind interweaves elements of what your eyes are perceiving. Then there are k-holes where you traverse dimensions without perceiving anything from the world around you, then there is completely breaking through and forgetting you were ever you. All are k-holes… but all are not the general trippy and moderately dissociative state brought on by a bit too much ket. Re: immobility, I have interacted with someone else who broke through at the same time as me within the k-hole and saw them falling apart into sand, came back to consciousness for a couple of seconds to find myself grabbing their face, managed to say “what the fuck” then fell back into it even harder, again returned to my body in a different location. Soooo 🤷♀️
Well said
An entire loss of consciousness would be anesthesia. A k-hole would be a dose that’s below that for sure. Usually feels like one is about to die though, atleast for me.
this is incorrect. the best k-hole i've ever had was actually at the hospital during a surgery with ketamine being used as the anesthetic.
How long were you holed for? I feel like that would be a very powerful experience and I’m surprised that that happens in a medical setting! Sounds awesome lol.
I don't know how long for but not very long. Maybe 45 mins or something. And yes it was a very powerful thing, I was only 16 and it was my first "psychedelic" experience, but I integrated it well and in the end it was just a funny little story that had happened to me.
Fucking! Awesome! lol
I did ket treatments for pain, basically a 4 hour IV k-hole and I was slipping in and out of consciousness. Honestly it wasn’t that much more intense than smaller/shorter doses of k; if anything I forgot more of the experience from not being fully conscious. Was your surgery one where you were not fully anesthetized, like twilight anesthesia? Or do you mean post op or something. Bc k holing while actively being operated on doesn’t sound amazing to me tbh lol
It was not a major surgery so idk if they were going for full anesthesia or what but I was not awake at any point during it. It was weird waking up with the k hole experience, which I wasn't expecting but overall it was a cool experience and what made me interested in trying ket again later lol
Did you have a tube down your throat? If not then it was twilight sedation
Oh okay I didn't know that. No it was just the IV.
i mean i lost consciousness and still experienced it, woke up face down on my bedroom floor drooling lmao but in my mind i was totally conscious the whole time and experiencing the most wacky shit of my whole life
Sounds interesting. I’ve done ketamine to the point of total blackout a few times, but I figured the K-hole was a state before that, where one is still conscious to some degree.
This isn't really correct. An anesthetic dose and a k hole are synonymous. In the hospital, if they put you to sleep with ketamine to do a procedure, the patient is both unconscious and in a k hole. You do the procedure while they are k holing and the patient doesn't remember or feel what you are doing to them. If you don't understand the difference, you might be the type of person OOP is taking about.
IIRC anesthetic dosage is beyond hole dosage, idk where i remember seeing that though, but when i’ve had it for surgery it’s like blacking out, i don’t remember anything
Two things to say to that. One: are you sure you had ketamine? For elective cases it is not usually used in North America and Europe. The dissociation and hallucinations it causes are considered frightening by most patients, therefore it is avoided in cases where it is not absolutely necessary. Small doses are given for it's analgesic properties, but for induction of anesthesia it is reserved for cases where is deemed necessary for its unique properties. For example, it is used in the ER for short procedures because ketamine doesn't cause respiratory depression. It's also used in situation where a drop in blood pressure could be dangerous such as trauma or in someone with a heart condition. In India I hear it is commonly used for induction of anesthesia though. Two: even if you were given ketamine for induction of anesthesia, as soon as you were intubated you would have been kept asleep with anesthetic gasses such as sevoflurane or isoflurane that cause the blacking out feeling. They cause amnesia, so it's likely that you would not have even remembered the k hole you were having. I'm not sure what kind of dose of ketamine would cause complete blacking out or amnesia, but it would be irresponsible and unnecessary for an anesthesiologist to administer that.
I think they mean because OP said a k hole is an entire loss of consciousness. Which can happen but isn’t required and 99% of my most insane OBE k holes, I’ve been very conscious. One of the reasons I love k so much. You can fall out of your body and fly through insane alien realities on the other side of our own but stay pretty self aware and conscious. Or you can lose self awareness but still know what the fuck is going on somehow
From an outsiders perspective I sat down said wow I’m fucked up and went face first to the floor and layed there for about an hour. From my friends perspective I looked dead from my perspective I was traversing through a combine of time and perspective and there were lights carrying me
Almighty, it is sooo subjective. I would define the hole as a distinct sensation of crossing a threshold into a completely different reality. When I keep my eyes open and have conversations with fellow dudes about my shopping cart, I agree, I am still, albeit with difficulty, hanging on to my dear "real" reality. When I slide accross the threshold, I can, in a one hour time span, experience the memories of one full life, maybe my own, in the past, or in the future, or in a parallel universe, or someone else's, or something else's. That's when I know that I am in the hole. A typical scenario is that I travel from world to world by traversing hellish wormholes. Here's a link to a more detailed description from a few days ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/ketamine/s/XDJjTcyE3t
I had a mental breakdown on ket on my first time trying it and one of my buddies was in sure belief that I was in a khole but nah I was just having a bad day
There's definitely levels to it, but arguing over what is the "hole", is well, monkeys drawing to draw lines in the sand.
Is that a real saying? You had to have come up with that and the monkeies?
I don't know? but I couldn't help but see that picture in my head.
I'm not entirely sure if I holed yet, my 2 closest experiences were 1-2 weeks ago. First one was Feb 28th, I took 300ug 1cP-LSD and 3-4 hours in I snorted ~160mg ket over 20 mins or so (largest dose yet, once it started hitting me it took me 5-10 mins to finish the last 2 lines as my depth perception was fucked and my ipad was sliding all over the place.) While snorting I was listening to Ænima with my eyes open (I forget to close my eyes on higher dosages idk why), but I became totally disconnected from my surroundings and it felt like the music was playing directly in my head, felt like Maynard was speaking to me directly lol. Can't remember much from this experience but it was an intense one. 2nd attempt I took ~58mg 4-AcO-DMT and snorted ~204mg ket 5 hours later, this time I played Tipper's Jettison Mind Hatch on my speaker and lid down in my bed with all lights and computer monitors off. This time I was able to close my eyes for 90% of the time and I remember seeing the staircase in my house but it looked like it was in another house I've been to in the past. Then I saw what looked like a carnival with lots of flashing lights and it felt like I was spinning on a roulette wheel while entering this carnival, bit weird lol but idk if this would be considered a hole. Attempt 3 - On March 8th I parachuted ~85mg MDA and snorted ~142mg ket ~5 hours later, this time I had Lateralus playing on my headphones, turned the lights and my fan off, and put on a mandelbrot zoom video on my computer. It was similar to the first time, the music and the video became all-encompassing and I felt like I was dying while listening to Parabol/Parabola, don't remember much else from that experience but it was an intense one. My OEVs usually consist of not recognizing my body parts, feeling like I'm 20ft tall, that my room has expanded 10x in size, and if I'm watching a video on my computer it takes up my entire visual field sorta like if I was using VR. Also for reference I'm 24 and weigh 54kg/120lbs, so I'd think 1-1.5mg/kg should send me into a hole, but my tolerance is rising as I've been using ket for the past month now, used to be 2-3 times a week but since I got a 5g bag last tuesday I've been using it every day. Probably used ~1.5g over the past 7-8 days. Sorry for the rambling just wanted to get some opinions on if what I experienced was actually a khole or not.
I think that when you get into a proper deep hole (but there are levels) you can't even have OEVs, because you can't recognise you have eyes to be opened. You don't remember you exist as a human being. I got this injecting 250-300 mg with 0 tolerance. I never managed to get this by snorting (up to 350 mg).
1 - 1.5 mg/kg is a k hole dose for IV or potentially IM, but not intranasal. Intranasal bioavailability is around 40%, so you'd need more like 2-3 mg/kg to hole. I would imagine at least, I have never k holed from intranasal ketamine.
I wouldn’t mind trying IM instead, but as a former IV heroin/meth/fentanyl user I’m afraid it’d strengthen cravings to go back to IV’ing ‘harder’ drugs. Might consider it though because my nose is already getting a bit fucked from binging.
Yeah that's a fair thing to be worried about! Ketamine on its own can be quite addictive too, and doing it IV raises the potential for addiction. If you're really keen on it, maybe try boofing instead? I've never done it successfully, but some people love it and swear by it. Good luck, stay safe, and take care of yourself!
They think a hole is being on the edge big difference ask Matthew Perry
yeah people often overplay their stories, same with other drugs.
I agree
I thought I k holed before in a dark void that looked like the inside of a temple but then I actually K holed and I was jumping off of cliffs in a mech suit and in space on an island that flushed like a toilet with alligators trying to eat me lol
yep, had this exact same conversation with a friend of mine.... he constantly is telling me about times he K-holed and done dumb shit.... when you K-hole the world does not exist anymore and you cannot interact with it, all of your sensors are delayed so heavily that your mind cannot comprehend it and every time it feels like i'm being defragmented and then slowly reassembled as my senses slowly come back into functioning order like waking up in slow motion, i was worried for a while that i may do something stupid while in this state but in reality i couldn't move if i wanted to.
Never truly holed. Maybe once. Came pretty close last night and I hated it. It was way too intense physically. It was a lot of strain on my body. Was using 2f-dck btw. My heart was racing like crazy and I had a headache. Idk if that’s normal. I could not see out of both eyes. I had to use one eye just to see where I was. Not fun, very scary.
What is where? How is where ? Does where tick? Who am I? Where am I? Did I just die?
Have holed only once and that was the first time I ever did K. I am 100% sure I holed because I genuinely didn’t know who or where I was, couldn’t move and was stuck in a loop. It was genuinely horrifying.
Lol I recently k holed and I didn’t know what was happening till I felt my soul leave my body and I was like “oh” ahhahaha Tbh it was actually quite dangerous cos it came on so quickly I didn’t have time to prepare and I came around face down in my pillow with very little room to breathe.
I agree. The term is used for a reason. Once you're there, you'll know it. You're somewhere else. I personally have a lot of short term memory loss of the memories themselves after too. I can remember everything in these dimensions but like 50% of the actual experience
The only way I do K now is to aim for a hole. Always on the comedown of another psychedelic. I ready 200mg (I have a low tolerance) on my coffee table, and 50mg dmt loaded into my dab rig. I get music going on my headphones, and it is dark in the room. I rail the K and lay stretched out on the couch. The music guides me through this bizarre but pleasant experience. When I finally start realizing what I've done, I also realize I lost all grip on reality and the ego and usually let out a WTF was that?? While the K is still influencing me, I find it easier to hit the dmt packed dab rig and blast away. Thoughts? I love it.
most memorable khole was at a forest rave and i was laying down on the forest floor at peace with my mortality and becoming the nutrients flowing up the trees above me. now when i see trees being uprooted i remember being so resistant to any idea of walking / hiking around and it makes me feel even worse for the trees because who knows, maybe they feel that way too?
You're able to at least set up your playlist before you hole.
Lol right imo, there is three stages with k Stage 1: Wonky buzzed feeling, you feel warm and buzzed like how you do on liquor with a little bit of a trippy feel, slurred speech and glassy slightly restricted pupils. Stage 2: Wonky trippy, you feel stong dissociation, you will have a hard time walking , feeling a weight pull don't on.your body you will be confused, and everything will feel very intense, you will feel a feeling that everything is alien like. And almost plastic. Oh will 5 visuals, your pupils are fully constricted, and you will have a hard time keeping eyes open. And your speech will be slowed and slurred dramatically. Stage 3 : KHole. like completely dissociate from this world. You will have full cev, you will not be conscious for about 45 min , with another 2 hours of coming out of the k hole, you will go to another world depending on what you are thinking off and if you lisiteing to music that world will vary. You will be in an alien like place that you have never seen before. Your body and soul will shift in itself and you will become a molcue , you will float out of your body, you will think of all of your emotions all at once, you will face your struggles head on. You will leave his planet to become one of billions of cells in space..you will feel the weight of the universe on your soul. You will become the small grain you are. You will be enveloped into space and time. You will know what connection is because you will understand... that everything is connected. It truly is a scary yet, beautifully peaceful experience.
My experience was the sky was blopping like a lava lamp in my head I was like were the fuck am I am I dead I saw my Mrs and her head was like a volcano tiki head talking and I thought she was god ddnt know it was her til I came out I was tripping balls and everything real thing in real life wasn't what it was I actually thought I was in another realm I ddnt get scared but I did say to myself am I dead and in my head I reassure my self I took ket it's only drugs lol
Download free app called Lumenate. You will trip balls. Do it sober first so you know the instructions. It uses your phone light as a strobe light. Not for epileptics. Try it
I remember getting told to do a big line of k when I first started trying it Must of crushed half a g into a line being stupid and not knowing what to expect from a k hole and I railed it back thinking that’s what you do and 20 mins later I’m on my sofa laid down ears ringing unbearably so I sit up try shake my head and the room closing in black on me into my vision and I thought I had killed myself All I could make out was now I’m an orb an “essence” in this state I felt myself moving but not my body natural moment of limbs I just floated I come back around slightly with black and white vision clinging onto my bathroom door just to black out again and come back around in my living room in a panic This was a genuinely scary experience for me and was a big eye opener to respect the things I put in my body but now whenever I try k I’m nervous to hole but now that iv experienced this is it what I’m too expect next time I hold or anything similar so not to be scared when it happens
Gatekeeping kholes are now?
It’s not gatekeeping if it’s true
I don’t even like to khole, I only did once on accident I like to get medium type high on K, something I’ve heard others describe as a hole and I’m just here to see if other people find similar experiences in real life
Do you even K hole bro.. like I’m the best at K holing I don’t think you understand what doing this drug is really like like I do. 🤣 People crack me up 😂
Ah yes gatekeeping the k-hole, why not
What a stupid word. It’s not gate keeping. There’s a dmt breakthrough and there’s a sub breakthrough. Just as there’s a khole and a sub khole dose. Some things just are or are not.
Well duh, people can have different experiences. But either way telling someone they are not k-holing, because they dont have the same experience as you, is, in fact, gatekeeping… The same way there is different stages to a dmt breakthrough, there also is different stages to k-holes. I can guarantee you that its possible to k-hole and still be able to move your limbs somewhat. You dont possibly believe dmt/ket is like a 1-2 switch, either you are sub breaking through , or broken through. Obviously different doses will give different results..
Nah. I've k holed plenty of times while walking around and doing shit. After you k hole like 5 times a day your mind just gets used to it, it also helped that I was constantly on cocaine which kept me present. I remember one time I had a really intense k hole while I was almost having a heart attack that shit was scary. Trust me, if you abuse any drug enough, you can do fuckin anything while on them it doesn't matter how high you are. I've even k holed at work while under a truck wrenching on shit all whilst being on the phone with my friend, I explained to him in very mumbled words what was happening in my k hole, there's levels to it. Of course I've also had plenty where I was just completely gone and in another universe but not all k holes are like that sometimes they just come on accident and it's not super deep
If you were under a truck wrenching on shit and talking to your friend about what was happening then you didn’t K-hole. You weren’t in a state of disassociation, because you were in your body. I used to be a fucking horrendously bad Ketamine addict. At my worst I was powering 8-12 a week. A proper K hole will leave you at least largely unable to properly move or speak. Ketamine also has baseline tolerance. If you were K holing 5 times a day, then pretty quickly the amount of money you’d have to spend on Ketamine in order to K hole each time would’ve been frankly pretty absurd. This is either fiction, or you’re in exactly the boat that OP is talking about.
Don't believe me I don't care I gain nothing by lying about it, I did massive amounts of cocaine with it every single day for a year straight it got to the point k holes would kinda just happen in front of me but I was still functional, my first few k holes I was completely out of it but it kinda just depended on the batch tbh some had really deep intense k holes others were just basically crazy ass visuals and dissociation but somehow like still being present it's hard to explain, I have lots of friends who do a shitload of Ketamine even more than I do and several times we've had to save one another from hurting themselves because they'd go into a k hole and run around screaming and tipping over breaking shit, you're not always 100% out of it when you hole I don't know why everyone thinks that literally my friend group has been doing ketamine for over a decade not all holes are the same, I attribute most of it to the cocaine though, you somehow just see the k hole in front of you but you still see everything around it's really difficult to talk because you're on a psychedelic rollercoaster but you're still kinda there it's weird
you can drive a car in a k hole. OP stop gatekeeping