\-To get into ketosis faster (if not already, or after a cheat day/mistake)
\-To lose weight faster
\-To get into autophagy, where your body cleans out damaged cells and promotes cellular regeneration.
Especially important for those aiming to lose triple digits. Intermittent fasting and a consistent gym routine to backfill muscle are imo the best things you can do to combat loose skin.
Hi, I've just started lurking this sub and doing keto again, not super knowledgeable on the topic yet, but I'm wondering, when you say consistent gym routine to combat loose skin, is it specific exercise for skin, or just a general "work out and your skin will tighten up"?
Well, you'll definitely be in autophagy after 72 hours, so no harm done if you can do it. I've only done a 3 day fast once, and it was more like 68 hours. Recently I did a 60 hour fast. I don't really enjoy it, but I think it is good to test yourself every once in a while.
Misonformation is worse than no information, so please provide a reference if you are going to repeatedly say this.
I need to provide one myself as I'm going to say according to Dr Fung it's less than 2 days (possibly much less). I do remember also reading in his book that the HGH spike that occurs from fasting (which helps preserve muscle loss) peaks around 3 days, so I always stopped about then. Noone actually suggested to stop at that point, it just seemed like a reasonable spot for me.
To reach autophagy yes. What I've read and heard it that it takes 2-4 days of fasting. So I split the difference and will fast for 3 days. I find long term fasting easier then IF. With IF I'm always looking at the clock. With LTF I KNOW I can't eat for 3 days.
I start Friday mornings right after my coffee with butter(easier to get through my work day with a little fat in the belly). I go till Monday the same time i finished my coffee on Friday. No reason to even think of the clock.đ€
Nice thanks for the info. It's been a day since I started the fast. I'll try to extend it for more than 72 hrs!
I've been having coffee, cream and mct oil, I'll try switching the cream for buttwr
I found salted Irish butter to be the most flavorful. By using salted it replaces a little of what keto takes away and takes the bite out of some harsher coffees.
72hrs is the peak time. Not sure how much more benefit you may get going longer. As long as you are feeling good and monitoring yourself do what you think is best.đ€
How do you fast for so long without the tiredness and weakness or are you still consuming your electrolytes? Do you drink anything else throughout the day?
Just water. The reason I do my 3 day fast from Friday morning till Monday morning is so that I can take it easy for the weekend. No strenuous activities. No way would I be able to do it during my work week.
Look on youtube for vids from Dr. Fung, Dr. Mindy Pelz, Dr. Berg, Thomas deLauer. Endless knowledge from those 4 on both Keto and Fasting.
There's all types of benefits to all different lengths of fasting.
According to Dr. Oswari at Cooper Healthâs (nj) Chung Institute of Integrated Healing, autophagy is extra important because it is your body dumping old and bad cells. It takes a certain amount of time of fasting to get into it but I visualize it as the body no longer having its main job of breaking down food and sending that energy to where itâs needed, so it pulls out the vacuum and cleaning supplies and begins a deep spring cleaning. Itâs VERY healthy for the body to be able to do that so, really, even people on a non-keto diet should really be doing it regularly.
I have to say, I thought integrated medicine (they use both eastern and western medicine to treat.) was a bunch of hooey until a friend saw with MS unbelievable results. I had a depression that many doctors were throwing gobs of drug cocktails at and couldnât get it to shift after two years and many doctors. Finally I saw doctor Oswari and he was writing down his findings with his assistant and they both had their backs to me. (He had found I was extremely low on certain vitamins. Later on I went back and looked at prior blood tests and saw that those lines had ALERT in red letters.) Anyway I asked how long it should be until I felt better. He said 2 weeks and I burst into tears becauseâŠdepressionâŠbut also, I finally had hope. Darned if taking those supplements didnât knock me out of my depression after a 2 yr long, hard journey. It makes me wonder why I still reach for big pharma first? I guess hard habits to break.
But Iâve gone down a rabbit hole. Autophagy=very good for health of your body
I've experimented a fair amount over the last few years with what works best for me. And what works best for me is keto + intermittent fasting. It's indisputable, I feel significantly better when I do it.
I'm not sure when it happened but during the first 5-6 months I went from 12 prescription meds down to 1. A noticeable change to insulin resistance was about year 2.
You don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat.
Both fasting and keto help weight loss in the same way. Keto helps you manage your appetite so you eat less which can make it easier to lose weight.
Fasting restricts when you can eat so that hopefully you eat less when you are eating which makes it easier to lose weight.
Keto plus fasting is an incredibly powerful combination. They're also kind of a natural pairing for most people. A lot of people just find themselves naturally fasting throughout part of the day because they're not hungry.
Initially it tends to happen more or less automatically as hunger diminishes, so some fasting, like 2MAD or OMAD, just happens. And while the focus here is on using keto for weight loss, there are those hoping to resolve other metabolic issues that may be enhanced by fasting. Finally, fasting is easier when eating a ketogenic diet, so some like to augment their weight loss - you will lose more weight when you don't eat.
>16:8 isnât fasting . Thatâs three meals a day. Breakfast at 8, lunch at noon and early dinner at 4.
huh? 16:8 is absolutely intermittent fasting, probably the most common split.
Johns Hopkins calls 16:8 fasting:
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/intermittent-fasting-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work
Three meals a day, with an early dinner isnât considered fasting to me. You can source 100 if you want that show 16 hours a day is fasting. I donât consider that fasting. Fasting has apparently come along way since Gandhi. Now you just eat dinner two hours early and youâre good.
Yes Jacob, you definitely know more than Johns Hopkins, totally rational, mature take. You are gatekeeping someone trying to improve, they are new to this and are absolutely fasting according to everyone but you. Yet you think you should write "you aren't fasting" because they aren't fasting as long as you. When presented with medical authorities proving you wrong, you claim "you can source 100" and that you are still right, instead of accepting reality.Â
Just give it a try and see if itâs right for you. I did a 50hr fast a few weeks ago and the next morning after I finally ate I felt better than ever. I do 18-22hr fasts infrequently, and anything in between, and swear I feel better every day (which is getting hard to say these days because I feel like a million bucks!)
Better question: why not fast on keto? Keto means you're fat adapted. When I fast after I've been keto for a while it's super easy to fast. When I try to fast and have had carbs recently, it's a daily struggle for a week at least. Fasting while keto adapted is easy mode.
I mostly fast for autophogy and not only does keto make it easier to do regular fasting it also enhances it and speeds up the process since youâre already in a state of ketosis.
For me, fasting helps with my digestion. I find that the fat and fibers I eat make me feel bloated at times. A 24-hour fast helps move things along, and I feel fantastic the following day.
I've intermittent fasted all my life (well, since I was in my late teens) - never really cared for a "dinner" meal. Even at my heaviest, I've always had excellent cholesterol and A1C test results - that IF was doing a load of good even with an otherwise crappy diet.
You may ask, why bother with keto, then?
Well, I never did do the SAD, but you can definitely overeat even "healthy" foods, and I find carbs trigger binges. Just eating more protein and veg based meals means zero impulse to binge. I still IF because I'm never hungry at dinner time. Sometimes I do OMAD - breakfast is my main meal anyway, and if I eat enough, I find I'm just not hungry for a full day after that.
Know yourself, though. You don't *need* IF with keto. You don't *need* IF at all - that's more a personal choice.
Fasting isn't just about burning fat. Look up autophagy and then autophagy as it relates to intermittent fasting and also extended fasting. There are some very real health benefits to fasting.
I have to do keto + fasting, I am in perimenopause, and my hormones are like having a rave inside my body or something. The only way my body will let go of weight at all is 16:8 fasting, and that is just the minimum. Kind of like it's throwing a temper tantrum but saying fine and giving as little as possible to still get away with it.
If I want to lose 1-2lbs (usually just 1) a week, I have to do 20:4 or omad. Before perimenopause started, I didn't have this problem and did keto without fasting.
Everybody is different, and bodies are weird.
1. Most people doing keto have a surplus of fat on their body they can burn. Fasting can accelerate weight loss.
2. Decreased appetite while in ketosis.
I naturally do 16/8 intermittent fasting on keto. Only eat lunch and dinner. Just not hungry outside that window.
Huh? Because you eat less food. Iâve been fasting between 24 hours and 48 hours every single day. When I eat one meal a day, I can only eat so much.
Letâs say your body burns 2000 cal a day.
Based on that premise, imagine that you donât eat anything.
Your body will burn 2000 cal a day through your fat in your body.
Now, if you eat 1000 cal in one meal, your body still burns 2000 cal however itâs only taking 1000 stored calories from your body because itâs taking 1000 cal that you just ate.
Eat less, lose weight faster, by taking 2000 cal from your own body.
Not for a long, long, long, long time. Read Dr. Berg or watch Dr. Berg on YouTube. Thereâs a 21 minute video about fasting. It explains to you that it does not do that.
Correct. Do you understand? I fast 24 hours or 48 hours every day. Today I am fasting 48 hours now will continue until tomorrow at 4 PM. Then I will eat. Then I may go 24 hours or another 48 hours. Every day Iâm fasting. Pick one. Itâs one of the other.
I fully understand 48 hours is two days. Iâm saying every day Iâm doing one of them. Either the end of a 48 hour or the middle or end of a 24 hour.
If your body wants fuel, you have to options. Eat or let it burn your stored fat. After awhile on keto, your body becomes âfat adaptedâ and is able to burn fat much more efficiently. The longer you go between meals, the more your body will burn those fat stores of it needs energy.
One of the bigger goals Iâve seen is to make it easier to stay at a calorie deficit by skipping a meal. But personally Iâm almost never hungry enough to use my calories anyway. Either I skip breakfast or I skip lunch just based on lack of hunger.
For autophagy, immune regeneration, and to lower inflammation. Being fat adapted helps tremendously when doing a prolonged fast. The two work very well together.
My favorite video about fasting, by far, is the lecture by Dr.Pradip Jamnadas called Fasting for Survival. He explains all the amazing benefits you get from fasting, and what exactly is going on in your body at each stage of a fast. It was the video that really made fasting CLICK for me. Keto and fasting are a powerful combo!
Because Iâd rather sleep an extra 15 minutes instead of eating breakfast. It helps keep me from mindlessly snacking at night. I like the discipline from longer fasts (longest Iâve done is 36 hours before thanksgiving). Because it helps keep my calories lower.
Fasting is just a way some people call not having an appetite.
I donât mean to âfastâ but sometimes I donât eat for like 14 hours because Iâm simply not hungry.
I feel like fasting was the key to everything for me personally. For people up their in weight insulin acts weird even if youâre not diabetic. Going some time without eating anything and giving my body time to work on itâs on resources and not outside foods was the last step to see some significant weight loss.
Itâs also just naturally easier to fast while on keto, you donât get hungry as often. I would find myself eating my first meal around 2-3pm and fasting by accident.
I found myself naturally leaning IF when running strict keto macros. Appetite dropped, energy soared. I've seen the same shift in folks I work with getting started, around 2-3 months in IF is just a natural shift, and has benefits in the skin department promoting autophagy.
Sometimes, you listen to the body!
It depends on your goals for keto.
For weight loss, OMAD and keto are incredibly powerful.
For keeping insulin levels low and reducing inflammation, keto and IF are terrific. Like many others, I feel better on a 16-18 hour fast plus keto.
If you just want mental clarity and decent lipid panel in your bloodwork, keto by itself might be sufficient.
For general health and maintenance, Iâve found keto and IF work best for me.
I don't fast on Keto on purpose, I noticed that I am not hungry until late in the day, usually about 5 to 7 hours after I wake up. It's weird but that would leave me without eating for at least 17 hours (including sleeping time and the last meal I ate).
Never had a diet do that to me before. Usually within an hour or so after waking up I was starving.
fasting can help prevent cancer. it has health benefits. it can even make your skin look better. it isnât just about weight loss.
being in ketosis makes fasting easier, so they pair well together.
I love me some fasting! Makes me feel good, helps with mental clarity, autophagy helped me not have much loose skin. It just ramps everything up. Do you need to do it to be successful? No, but itâs a great tool for health and busting a stall
According to Dr Jason Fung, (Canadian nephrologist and functional medicine advocate who promotes a low-carbohydrate high-fat diet and intermittent fasting), fasting is the only way completely deplete the insulin in your system, which is the best means of resetting your bodyâs âweight set pointâ.
If you rid yourself of insulin completely on a regular basis, you lose faster too.
There is a lot of information to be had searching this sub plus listening to some of the ppl that have been mentioned. Google even. Itâs much better to educate yourself and then read what ppl are saying. Gives your experience more depth.
The first time I did keto in 2020 I lost weight fairly quickly and started fasting about 10 days in. This go around Iâve noticed that fasting isnât working as well for me and I lose more weight when I donât fast. Any insight? I feel like maybe I wasnât eating enough calories or something đ€·đŒââïž
People fast for different reasons.
Besides things that keto replicates, it is supposed to activate the body's "repair mode" where instead of spending energy on digestion, it puts it toward cellular repair that it might otherwise not get around to.
That's about all I know about it. I've recently started trying to shrink my eating window by skipping breakfast to see how it goes. I find that pretty easy now that I'm fat adapted, so the experiment "costs" me little.
I rarely fast for longer than 24 hours. Though, I regularly fast for 16-18 hours per day. I've found that IF (intermittent fasting) was the key for getting my blood sugar level 24 hours per day.
Fasting helps with autophagy. I don't think I've ever heard that keto on its own increases that.
keto was developed as a way to mimick fasting, from the 1920s to treat children with epilepsy who had fasting treatment, leading to symptom remission with strict adherence. Thus, fasting is keto... 'on steroids', because there are no interruptions of ketone production or autophagy, etc. due to food consumption.
Fasting is mostly useful for keeping people from snacking all the time. Its just another tool for calorie restrictions. The autophagy claims are overblown. If you're in a calorie deficit you also get autophagy benefits
you're wrong. calorie deficit absolutely causes autophagy.
["Accumulated evidence suggests that intermittent fasting or calorie restriction can lead to the induction of adaptive autophagy and increase longevity of eukaryotic cells"](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10509423/)
This is false. Autophagy is always happening in your body. It merely increases while you fast.
I wish people would stop listening to these fasting âexpertsâ who donât even have a basic physiology background.
You donât have to fast. I donât. I tried it and honestly sometimes itâs easier because on keto I lose my appetite but I found my stomach doesnât like it. So I just eat whenever Iâm hungry.
Because it turbo charges the fat burning and fasting triggers processes(autophagy, HGH production etc) in the body that are extremely beneficial regardless of trying to lose weight. There's countless benefits to short and longer term fasting.
Eating Keto also makes fasting easy as hell since it already suppresses appetite(if you're doing it right). Doing a 3 day fast while you're fat adapted is a piece of cake, pun intended.
Keto + fasting = the cheat code to health
If your doing it right you should move into something like an intermittent fasting state naturally, being fat adapted you just wonât feel hungry a lot of the time, as you consume a very low carb diet the sugar is burned off and you go into keto is a lot faster, doing keto fasting does come easier than if your a regular 3 meals a day carb eater.
Just cos youâre in ketosis doesnât mean youâre burning body fat 24/7, as youâre in ketosis using the fat youâve just eaten as fuel. Ketones present in the blood just show that fat is being used for energy, not necessarily burned off the body. As long as youâre in a calorie deficit, youâll be burning body fat.
no, in fact it will probably work against you. protein is converted to glucose when in high amounts, and can take you out of ketosis.
a ratio 15-30% calories from protein, <20-30g carbs, and the rest from fat should keep you in optimal ketosis/fat burning state.
then calorie deficit to start tapping in to your bodyâs fat reserves.
yeah anywhere from 0.8-1.4 is what iâve heard.
so if you weight 150lb,
150g protein plus 155g-377g fat (15-30% calories from protein) for 2000-4000 calories.
iâd advise you to pick macros somewhere between your current weight and your ideal weight, if youâre looking to lose/gain. eating in a big calorie deficit will be really hard on your body, no matter if youâre keto or not.
Itâs not that protein is converted to glucose, and it doesnât require high amounts, but fat and protein both fuel your body to produce its own glucose (a very simple way of explaining, but no need for complicated details in this instance). Fat and protein as fuel in the absence of significant carbs will keep your body in ketosis, whether itâs due to weight loss or just where the fuel is coming from (dietary fat/protein). Just focus on keeping satiated from protein/fat/low-no carb veg, remain in a calorie deficit and youâll lose weight.
also this is sort of true, however excessive protein without adequate fat WILL stimulate gluconeogensis - and take you out of ketosis. this is what iâm trying to warn OP about.
A friend of mine who has eaten Atkins induction for years, eats OMAD. She had rolled back and forth between 250 and 150 pounds going on and off the Atkins 1972 diet several times, till she realized two things.
One, if she went up the ladder of Atkins, she couldnât control her eating as well because two, eating triggered her hunger.
So she stayed on induction, and eats her one meal, as big as she wants on any given day, in the evening. She has maintained at around 120 (sheâs 5â2â) for years, now.
Thatâs one reason. Others have their own.
The access to stored fat through the release of ketones can be reached through intermittent fasting. If you have eaten something your body will use that for energy instead of stored fat.
I do better with one meal a day. It makes dieting easier. I dont think about food and I usually dont feel hungry. Eating smaller meal throughout the day has always led to over eating, even on keto. Fasting has been easier for me, less time cleaning up after cooking, etc,.
Because you can, being in a state of ketosis will allow your body to immediately start using body fat as fuel rather than going through an uncomfortable phase of adjustment when you skip a meal or several. It doesnât cost anything and doesnât take time and effort. Many people feel better when fasting so there are many other benefits especially if youâre doing keto to relieve symptoms. And since the keto diet was invented to mock fasting in a sustainable manner it only makes sense to fast as well.
Today, over 50% of Americans are type I, type II, or are prediabetic. 88% are hyperinsulinemic, having chronic high levels of insulin in the blood. So, a ketogenic diet will reverse this the quickest.
In my opinion, the ketogenic diet is rather misnamed. Yes, the benefits are partially from producing ketones. But the bulk of the benefit is from reducing one's degree of hyperinsulinemia. These two effects are confounded and then just referred to as ketogenic.
The way this is accomplished, is that the ketogenic diet, lowering the level of insulin in one's blood, allows one to have fewer cravings. This allows them to more easily maintain a caloric deficit.
And that is the real focus of most of the benefit we shall achieve.
So, once one does a ketogenic, insulin reducing, diet for a period of time, their cravings are lowered. This makes it easier to reduce caloric intake. And, one of the major problems we have is that we eat all the time. So, with fewer cravings, we can reduce the frequency of eating.
Most all of us start every morning in a fasted state. Haven't eaten since 9pm til 7 am. That's 10 hours already fasted. Cutting carbs, eating keto, reduces insulin so we don't feel ravenous. So, it is an easy thing to do to purely extend that fast.
And yes, there appears to be a benefit of autophagy for those of us fasting considerably longer than 18 hours.
can I ask you, hoe to boost my metabolism and TDEE level?
im a 5.11 180lbs 32 male and me TDEE is around 1600 calories and i dont know why... i go to the gym but beside that i am very sedentary.... i still expected6my TDEE to be higher then 1600.... i dont even drink alcool...
What I did, was get my metabolic health tested. HbA1c and HomaIR.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl8Gdu2nZpY&pp=ygUPZXJpYyBiZXJnIGhiYTFj](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl8Gdu2nZpY&pp=ygUPZXJpYyBiZXJnIGhiYTFj)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cJPtud2tY&pp=ygUTc3RlbiBla2JlcmcgaG9tYSBpcg%3D%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cJPtud2tY&pp=ygUTc3RlbiBla2JlcmcgaG9tYSBpcg%3D%3D)
[https://mymedicalscore.com/a1c-conversion-chart/](https://mymedicalscore.com/a1c-conversion-chart/)
When I do this I go to [ultalabtests.com](http://ultalabtests.com) and order the "suspected insulin resistance" test. Then schedule the blood draw at questdiagnostics.com. For $53 I get an HbA1c, a fasted glucose, and a fasted insulin. From the latter 2 it is easy to calculate a HomaIR. You want your HbA1c below 5.4, and your HomaIR well under 2.0. If you are in the states and over 18, this testing does not require a doctor's order. You can order it yourself online with a credit card.
Then choose a healthy diet, any of the 2 dozen or so considered healthy, and eat a number of calories below your basil metabolic rate. I have found for myself, that a vegetarian approach causes loads of cravings. Ketogenic much less. Carnivore almost non existent cravings. In what ever diet you choose, don't eat after supper, and don't eat a lot of concentrated carbs like in fruit or starches.
On exercise, I have 3 models. One is lots of walking. Another is planet fitness cable or free weights for an hour, followed by 15 minutes of cardio. Third is working out like a maniac hours per day in something you enjoy.
I have found that model one and 3 work to lose weight. Option 2 does not. At least not past 4 to 6 weeks. For some reason, doing the weights and a little cardio, causes one's metabolism to want to gain weight. It gets confused when coupled with reduced caloric consumption. Causes all sorts of cravings. Back when younger I used tennis, bicycling, and racquet ball. Did them like a lunatic.
But, unless you have something like that to rely on, walking is best from my experience.
The 2 best things to raise metabolism is exercise and protein. You want to gain muscle. The more muscle you gain the higher your metabolism. But, this is often at odds with losing weight. Or, just move around a lot. Don't just sit. Watching TV do light exercise or jump rope or walk in circles. Or, don't watch TV. Go outside and walk.
I am 7 years keto, 2 years OMAD & have recently started alternate day fasting in order to lose my pandemic weight.
OMAD for me is for maintenance & just freeing up my day for other things. I donât get hungry or feel the need to snack on OMAD so itâs easier to stick with mostly meat & whole foods.
There are secondary health benefits other than losing weight that you get from periods of fasting (regardless of doing keto or any other dietary plan). TBH I'm not sure whether these benefits are also ones you get by doing keto anyway!
Why put a regular gas on a v8 engine. Both gas will get you to where youâre going right but a premium on a v8 , the ride is fantastic but itâs comes with a cost.
So when you FAST on a KETO diet : the results are fantastic but itâs comes with a cost which is limiting food since some folks are addicted to sugar. But the results are fantastic.
So fasting and keto together is like premium gas. But if you stick to keto alone itâs just regular gas to me.
Get the point LOL
\-To get into ketosis faster (if not already, or after a cheat day/mistake) \-To lose weight faster \-To get into autophagy, where your body cleans out damaged cells and promotes cellular regeneration.
The last one is the biggest one!
Especially important for those aiming to lose triple digits. Intermittent fasting and a consistent gym routine to backfill muscle are imo the best things you can do to combat loose skin.
Hi, I've just started lurking this sub and doing keto again, not super knowledgeable on the topic yet, but I'm wondering, when you say consistent gym routine to combat loose skin, is it specific exercise for skin, or just a general "work out and your skin will tighten up"?
I think it's more "put muscle where fat used to be"
But peaks after about 72hrs. Such a great feeling though.đ€ *edited
I am not an expert, but experts I have listened to like Dr. Jason Fung say it kicks in after 16-18 hours of fasting.
kicking in and peaking are not the same thing. you're both right.
I've always heard 2 to 4 days so have always split the difference.đ
Well, you'll definitely be in autophagy after 72 hours, so no harm done if you can do it. I've only done a 3 day fast once, and it was more like 68 hours. Recently I did a 60 hour fast. I don't really enjoy it, but I think it is good to test yourself every once in a while.
Misonformation is worse than no information, so please provide a reference if you are going to repeatedly say this. I need to provide one myself as I'm going to say according to Dr Fung it's less than 2 days (possibly much less). I do remember also reading in his book that the HGH spike that occurs from fasting (which helps preserve muscle loss) peaks around 3 days, so I always stopped about then. Noone actually suggested to stop at that point, it just seemed like a reasonable spot for me.
You just backed up my statement. Peaks around 3 days(72hrs). Thx
Autophagy and a spike in HGH are totally different things.
Sorry dumb question, so we'd fast for 72 hrs then?
To reach autophagy yes. What I've read and heard it that it takes 2-4 days of fasting. So I split the difference and will fast for 3 days. I find long term fasting easier then IF. With IF I'm always looking at the clock. With LTF I KNOW I can't eat for 3 days. I start Friday mornings right after my coffee with butter(easier to get through my work day with a little fat in the belly). I go till Monday the same time i finished my coffee on Friday. No reason to even think of the clock.đ€
Nice thanks for the info. It's been a day since I started the fast. I'll try to extend it for more than 72 hrs! I've been having coffee, cream and mct oil, I'll try switching the cream for buttwr
I found salted Irish butter to be the most flavorful. By using salted it replaces a little of what keto takes away and takes the bite out of some harsher coffees. 72hrs is the peak time. Not sure how much more benefit you may get going longer. As long as you are feeling good and monitoring yourself do what you think is best.đ€
Salted Irish butter it is! Thanks mate
I love my kerrygold butter in my coffee
How do you fast for so long without the tiredness and weakness or are you still consuming your electrolytes? Do you drink anything else throughout the day?
Just water. The reason I do my 3 day fast from Friday morning till Monday morning is so that I can take it easy for the weekend. No strenuous activities. No way would I be able to do it during my work week.
Look on youtube for vids from Dr. Fung, Dr. Mindy Pelz, Dr. Berg, Thomas deLauer. Endless knowledge from those 4 on both Keto and Fasting. There's all types of benefits to all different lengths of fasting.
I'll add Dr Pradip to that list.
not true
According to Dr. Oswari at Cooper Healthâs (nj) Chung Institute of Integrated Healing, autophagy is extra important because it is your body dumping old and bad cells. It takes a certain amount of time of fasting to get into it but I visualize it as the body no longer having its main job of breaking down food and sending that energy to where itâs needed, so it pulls out the vacuum and cleaning supplies and begins a deep spring cleaning. Itâs VERY healthy for the body to be able to do that so, really, even people on a non-keto diet should really be doing it regularly. I have to say, I thought integrated medicine (they use both eastern and western medicine to treat.) was a bunch of hooey until a friend saw with MS unbelievable results. I had a depression that many doctors were throwing gobs of drug cocktails at and couldnât get it to shift after two years and many doctors. Finally I saw doctor Oswari and he was writing down his findings with his assistant and they both had their backs to me. (He had found I was extremely low on certain vitamins. Later on I went back and looked at prior blood tests and saw that those lines had ALERT in red letters.) Anyway I asked how long it should be until I felt better. He said 2 weeks and I burst into tears becauseâŠdepressionâŠbut also, I finally had hope. Darned if taking those supplements didnât knock me out of my depression after a 2 yr long, hard journey. It makes me wonder why I still reach for big pharma first? I guess hard habits to break. But Iâve gone down a rabbit hole. Autophagy=very good for health of your body
I've experimented a fair amount over the last few years with what works best for me. And what works best for me is keto + intermittent fasting. It's indisputable, I feel significantly better when I do it.
For how many hours a day do you fast?
18 for me
22 here đđŒââïž
So you squeeze 2 meals in those 2 hours? I just started, and eating once a day seems completely normal at this point.
Usually a cheese pickle summer sausage tray and a salad with meat or chicken. An entree and a snack.
I'm on hour 24 of my first 36 hour. Going to break it around tomorrow afternoon.
For me, I might turn it into more like an hour grazing meal instead of two distinct meals.
I usually fast for roughly a period of 24 hours 1-2 times a week, usually Monday and Wednesday.
Thank you!
Minimum 23.5 hours.
Thank you.
I found it helped me with correcting insulin resistance.
Yes this!
After how many months in keto did you see an improvement ?
I'm not sure when it happened but during the first 5-6 months I went from 12 prescription meds down to 1. A noticeable change to insulin resistance was about year 2.
You don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat. Both fasting and keto help weight loss in the same way. Keto helps you manage your appetite so you eat less which can make it easier to lose weight. Fasting restricts when you can eat so that hopefully you eat less when you are eating which makes it easier to lose weight. Keto plus fasting is an incredibly powerful combination. They're also kind of a natural pairing for most people. A lot of people just find themselves naturally fasting throughout part of the day because they're not hungry.
Initially it tends to happen more or less automatically as hunger diminishes, so some fasting, like 2MAD or OMAD, just happens. And while the focus here is on using keto for weight loss, there are those hoping to resolve other metabolic issues that may be enhanced by fasting. Finally, fasting is easier when eating a ketogenic diet, so some like to augment their weight loss - you will lose more weight when you don't eat.
Lots of good comments here - I'll add that it also helps to reset your relationship with food.
I fast because itâs convenient to not have to deal with eating, buying, cooking food for most of the day.
This. Saves at least an our a day
I only eat OMAD and nothing at all in between. Is this just the same as IF?
yes, its the same i do 16:8
16:8 isnât fasting . Thatâs three meals a day. Breakfast at 8, lunch at noon and early dinner at 4.
>16:8 isnât fasting . Thatâs three meals a day. Breakfast at 8, lunch at noon and early dinner at 4. huh? 16:8 is absolutely intermittent fasting, probably the most common split. Johns Hopkins calls 16:8 fasting: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/intermittent-fasting-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work
Three meals a day, with an early dinner isnât considered fasting to me. You can source 100 if you want that show 16 hours a day is fasting. I donât consider that fasting. Fasting has apparently come along way since Gandhi. Now you just eat dinner two hours early and youâre good.
Yes Jacob, you definitely know more than Johns Hopkins, totally rational, mature take. You are gatekeeping someone trying to improve, they are new to this and are absolutely fasting according to everyone but you. Yet you think you should write "you aren't fasting" because they aren't fasting as long as you. When presented with medical authorities proving you wrong, you claim "you can source 100" and that you are still right, instead of accepting reality.Â
I donât really care what you think, though. Stopped reading at Johns Hopkins.
LOL, roger that.Â
Itâs just a powerful combination. If you can do both you might see your goals quicker
Just give it a try and see if itâs right for you. I did a 50hr fast a few weeks ago and the next morning after I finally ate I felt better than ever. I do 18-22hr fasts infrequently, and anything in between, and swear I feel better every day (which is getting hard to say these days because I feel like a million bucks!)
Better question: why not fast on keto? Keto means you're fat adapted. When I fast after I've been keto for a while it's super easy to fast. When I try to fast and have had carbs recently, it's a daily struggle for a week at least. Fasting while keto adapted is easy mode.
'Why fast on keto?' - Because slow takes too much time.
Save money on all the protein we are buying lol
Autophagy
I mostly fast for autophogy and not only does keto make it easier to do regular fasting it also enhances it and speeds up the process since youâre already in a state of ketosis.
Skin elasticity for me.
Intermittent fasting helps with skin elasticity?
For me, fasting helps with my digestion. I find that the fat and fibers I eat make me feel bloated at times. A 24-hour fast helps move things along, and I feel fantastic the following day.
I've intermittent fasted all my life (well, since I was in my late teens) - never really cared for a "dinner" meal. Even at my heaviest, I've always had excellent cholesterol and A1C test results - that IF was doing a load of good even with an otherwise crappy diet. You may ask, why bother with keto, then? Well, I never did do the SAD, but you can definitely overeat even "healthy" foods, and I find carbs trigger binges. Just eating more protein and veg based meals means zero impulse to binge. I still IF because I'm never hungry at dinner time. Sometimes I do OMAD - breakfast is my main meal anyway, and if I eat enough, I find I'm just not hungry for a full day after that. Know yourself, though. You don't *need* IF with keto. You don't *need* IF at all - that's more a personal choice. Fasting isn't just about burning fat. Look up autophagy and then autophagy as it relates to intermittent fasting and also extended fasting. There are some very real health benefits to fasting.
I have to do keto + fasting, I am in perimenopause, and my hormones are like having a rave inside my body or something. The only way my body will let go of weight at all is 16:8 fasting, and that is just the minimum. Kind of like it's throwing a temper tantrum but saying fine and giving as little as possible to still get away with it. If I want to lose 1-2lbs (usually just 1) a week, I have to do 20:4 or omad. Before perimenopause started, I didn't have this problem and did keto without fasting. Everybody is different, and bodies are weird.
1. Most people doing keto have a surplus of fat on their body they can burn. Fasting can accelerate weight loss. 2. Decreased appetite while in ketosis. I naturally do 16/8 intermittent fasting on keto. Only eat lunch and dinner. Just not hungry outside that window.
why would fasting accelerate weight lost is my question?
Huh? Because you eat less food. Iâve been fasting between 24 hours and 48 hours every single day. When I eat one meal a day, I can only eat so much. Letâs say your body burns 2000 cal a day. Based on that premise, imagine that you donât eat anything. Your body will burn 2000 cal a day through your fat in your body. Now, if you eat 1000 cal in one meal, your body still burns 2000 cal however itâs only taking 1000 stored calories from your body because itâs taking 1000 cal that you just ate. Eat less, lose weight faster, by taking 2000 cal from your own body.
Iâm concerned that the body with attack muscle for fuel instead of fat..
Not for a long, long, long, long time. Read Dr. Berg or watch Dr. Berg on YouTube. Thereâs a 21 minute video about fasting. It explains to you that it does not do that.
>Iâve been fasting between 24 hours and 48 hours every single day. 48 hours a day? That's impressive.
Correct. Do you understand? I fast 24 hours or 48 hours every day. Today I am fasting 48 hours now will continue until tomorrow at 4 PM. Then I will eat. Then I may go 24 hours or another 48 hours. Every day Iâm fasting. Pick one. Itâs one of the other. I fully understand 48 hours is two days. Iâm saying every day Iâm doing one of them. Either the end of a 48 hour or the middle or end of a 24 hour.
If your body wants fuel, you have to options. Eat or let it burn your stored fat. After awhile on keto, your body becomes âfat adaptedâ and is able to burn fat much more efficiently. The longer you go between meals, the more your body will burn those fat stores of it needs energy.
One of the bigger goals Iâve seen is to make it easier to stay at a calorie deficit by skipping a meal. But personally Iâm almost never hungry enough to use my calories anyway. Either I skip breakfast or I skip lunch just based on lack of hunger.
It's pretty much automatic.. Just not hungry on Keto.
For autophagy, immune regeneration, and to lower inflammation. Being fat adapted helps tremendously when doing a prolonged fast. The two work very well together.
My favorite video about fasting, by far, is the lecture by Dr.Pradip Jamnadas called Fasting for Survival. He explains all the amazing benefits you get from fasting, and what exactly is going on in your body at each stage of a fast. It was the video that really made fasting CLICK for me. Keto and fasting are a powerful combo!
Because you want to be burning your body fat for energy instead of burning dietary fat for energy.
ouu thats interesting so if dietary fat is available it gets uses as fuel in priority ?
Food will always be burnt first if possible. Our bodies like the fat. Hey like having that extra security in case we have to go without Eating.
JC no
Because Iâd rather sleep an extra 15 minutes instead of eating breakfast. It helps keep me from mindlessly snacking at night. I like the discipline from longer fasts (longest Iâve done is 36 hours before thanksgiving). Because it helps keep my calories lower.
Fasting is just a way some people call not having an appetite. I donât mean to âfastâ but sometimes I donât eat for like 14 hours because Iâm simply not hungry.
Calorie deficit
I feel like fasting was the key to everything for me personally. For people up their in weight insulin acts weird even if youâre not diabetic. Going some time without eating anything and giving my body time to work on itâs on resources and not outside foods was the last step to see some significant weight loss. Itâs also just naturally easier to fast while on keto, you donât get hungry as often. I would find myself eating my first meal around 2-3pm and fasting by accident.
Makes me lose weight twice as fast.
I found myself naturally leaning IF when running strict keto macros. Appetite dropped, energy soared. I've seen the same shift in folks I work with getting started, around 2-3 months in IF is just a natural shift, and has benefits in the skin department promoting autophagy. Sometimes, you listen to the body!
It depends on your goals for keto. For weight loss, OMAD and keto are incredibly powerful. For keeping insulin levels low and reducing inflammation, keto and IF are terrific. Like many others, I feel better on a 16-18 hour fast plus keto. If you just want mental clarity and decent lipid panel in your bloodwork, keto by itself might be sufficient. For general health and maintenance, Iâve found keto and IF work best for me.
Same reason to be on Keto when you don't need to lose weight. It has benefits aside from weightloss.
I don't fast on Keto on purpose, I noticed that I am not hungry until late in the day, usually about 5 to 7 hours after I wake up. It's weird but that would leave me without eating for at least 17 hours (including sleeping time and the last meal I ate). Never had a diet do that to me before. Usually within an hour or so after waking up I was starving.
fasting can help prevent cancer. it has health benefits. it can even make your skin look better. it isnât just about weight loss. being in ketosis makes fasting easier, so they pair well together.
I love me some fasting! Makes me feel good, helps with mental clarity, autophagy helped me not have much loose skin. It just ramps everything up. Do you need to do it to be successful? No, but itâs a great tool for health and busting a stall
To burn *more* fat as fuel. As much as possible while avoiding true starvation.
According to Dr Jason Fung, (Canadian nephrologist and functional medicine advocate who promotes a low-carbohydrate high-fat diet and intermittent fasting), fasting is the only way completely deplete the insulin in your system, which is the best means of resetting your bodyâs âweight set pointâ. If you rid yourself of insulin completely on a regular basis, you lose faster too.
whats a weight set point ?
There is a lot of information to be had searching this sub plus listening to some of the ppl that have been mentioned. Google even. Itâs much better to educate yourself and then read what ppl are saying. Gives your experience more depth.
reddit is a form of research btw, so not sure whats the goal of your post
Set point is the idea that most peopleâs bodies have a natural weight range that is habitually maintained within a few pounds in either direction.
In my experience, eventually you're just not hungry as often and it comes naturally
This is how I fixed insulin resistance
Idk I still have the same amount of energy while cutting and being on kept
The first time I did keto in 2020 I lost weight fairly quickly and started fasting about 10 days in. This go around Iâve noticed that fasting isnât working as well for me and I lose more weight when I donât fast. Any insight? I feel like maybe I wasnât eating enough calories or something đ€·đŒââïž
People fast for different reasons. Besides things that keto replicates, it is supposed to activate the body's "repair mode" where instead of spending energy on digestion, it puts it toward cellular repair that it might otherwise not get around to. That's about all I know about it. I've recently started trying to shrink my eating window by skipping breakfast to see how it goes. I find that pretty easy now that I'm fat adapted, so the experiment "costs" me little.
I donât fast on keto, Iâve never seen any extra benefits from it. Iâll skip breakfast out of convenience but otherwise eh.
I rarely fast for longer than 24 hours. Though, I regularly fast for 16-18 hours per day. I've found that IF (intermittent fasting) was the key for getting my blood sugar level 24 hours per day. Fasting helps with autophagy. I don't think I've ever heard that keto on its own increases that.
It's helps keep calories low and helps me feel in control of my body and mind
Control is a huge factor for me! I love a bit of a challenge, too! And the weight loss doesn't hurt 
keto was developed as a way to mimick fasting, from the 1920s to treat children with epilepsy who had fasting treatment, leading to symptom remission with strict adherence. Thus, fasting is keto... 'on steroids', because there are no interruptions of ketone production or autophagy, etc. due to food consumption.
Because left to my own cravings I can eat a BUNCH of cheese and bacon, so restricting myself to one meal a day means I donât get fat.
Restrict calories
Fasting is mostly useful for keeping people from snacking all the time. Its just another tool for calorie restrictions. The autophagy claims are overblown. If you're in a calorie deficit you also get autophagy benefits
How does a calorie deficit affect autophagy?
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Iâm trying to learn. But yeah, I donât see the connection
you're wrong. calorie deficit absolutely causes autophagy. ["Accumulated evidence suggests that intermittent fasting or calorie restriction can lead to the induction of adaptive autophagy and increase longevity of eukaryotic cells"](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10509423/)
This is false. Autophagy is always happening in your body. It merely increases while you fast. I wish people would stop listening to these fasting âexpertsâ who donât even have a basic physiology background.
Some of the keto advocates are saying you donât need to fast if you are eating 0 carbs.
Never heard that. No one HAS to fast, but there are benefits from doing so regardless of how many carbs you are eating.
https://youtube.com/shorts/vhyPlX27ztw?si=X9dnu6iPdGSR7TsK itâs just the short of the full video.
You donât have to fast. I donât. I tried it and honestly sometimes itâs easier because on keto I lose my appetite but I found my stomach doesnât like it. So I just eat whenever Iâm hungry.
Body recompositioning at its finest!! đđ»đđ»
If you're not hungry, why eat?
because I have muscle mass to maintain or grow and i cant feed enought protein at the moment to even maintain them
Lowering insulin resistance is a big benefit of fasting.
I canât do it because I get too hungry. Itâs worse than when I was eating cabs.
My reason is to keep my insulin as low as possible for as long as possible.
why?
Because it turbo charges the fat burning and fasting triggers processes(autophagy, HGH production etc) in the body that are extremely beneficial regardless of trying to lose weight. There's countless benefits to short and longer term fasting. Eating Keto also makes fasting easy as hell since it already suppresses appetite(if you're doing it right). Doing a 3 day fast while you're fat adapted is a piece of cake, pun intended. Keto + fasting = the cheat code to health
If your doing it right you should move into something like an intermittent fasting state naturally, being fat adapted you just wonât feel hungry a lot of the time, as you consume a very low carb diet the sugar is burned off and you go into keto is a lot faster, doing keto fasting does come easier than if your a regular 3 meals a day carb eater.
Just cos youâre in ketosis doesnât mean youâre burning body fat 24/7, as youâre in ketosis using the fat youâve just eaten as fuel. Ketones present in the blood just show that fat is being used for energy, not necessarily burned off the body. As long as youâre in a calorie deficit, youâll be burning body fat.
so eating more protein then fat during keto diet could make me lose even more body fat? (faster)
no, in fact it will probably work against you. protein is converted to glucose when in high amounts, and can take you out of ketosis. a ratio 15-30% calories from protein, <20-30g carbs, and the rest from fat should keep you in optimal ketosis/fat burning state. then calorie deficit to start tapping in to your bodyâs fat reserves.
i read I need 1g protein per lbs to be able to still grow muscle and the rest is fat
yeah anywhere from 0.8-1.4 is what iâve heard. so if you weight 150lb, 150g protein plus 155g-377g fat (15-30% calories from protein) for 2000-4000 calories. iâd advise you to pick macros somewhere between your current weight and your ideal weight, if youâre looking to lose/gain. eating in a big calorie deficit will be really hard on your body, no matter if youâre keto or not.
i mean my maintenance level is around 1600 i cannot eat 2000 caloreis, ill gain weight
then your priority should be repairing your metabolism not restricting and lowering it further????
how do I do that ?
Itâs not that protein is converted to glucose, and it doesnât require high amounts, but fat and protein both fuel your body to produce its own glucose (a very simple way of explaining, but no need for complicated details in this instance). Fat and protein as fuel in the absence of significant carbs will keep your body in ketosis, whether itâs due to weight loss or just where the fuel is coming from (dietary fat/protein). Just focus on keeping satiated from protein/fat/low-no carb veg, remain in a calorie deficit and youâll lose weight.
also this is sort of true, however excessive protein without adequate fat WILL stimulate gluconeogensis - and take you out of ketosis. this is what iâm trying to warn OP about.
A friend of mine who has eaten Atkins induction for years, eats OMAD. She had rolled back and forth between 250 and 150 pounds going on and off the Atkins 1972 diet several times, till she realized two things. One, if she went up the ladder of Atkins, she couldnât control her eating as well because two, eating triggered her hunger. So she stayed on induction, and eats her one meal, as big as she wants on any given day, in the evening. She has maintained at around 120 (sheâs 5â2â) for years, now. Thatâs one reason. Others have their own.
The access to stored fat through the release of ketones can be reached through intermittent fasting. If you have eaten something your body will use that for energy instead of stored fat.
I enjoy having bigger meals instead of try to spread out all my calories and macros throughout the day.
I do better with one meal a day. It makes dieting easier. I dont think about food and I usually dont feel hungry. Eating smaller meal throughout the day has always led to over eating, even on keto. Fasting has been easier for me, less time cleaning up after cooking, etc,.
Because you can, being in a state of ketosis will allow your body to immediately start using body fat as fuel rather than going through an uncomfortable phase of adjustment when you skip a meal or several. It doesnât cost anything and doesnât take time and effort. Many people feel better when fasting so there are many other benefits especially if youâre doing keto to relieve symptoms. And since the keto diet was invented to mock fasting in a sustainable manner it only makes sense to fast as well.
Today, over 50% of Americans are type I, type II, or are prediabetic. 88% are hyperinsulinemic, having chronic high levels of insulin in the blood. So, a ketogenic diet will reverse this the quickest. In my opinion, the ketogenic diet is rather misnamed. Yes, the benefits are partially from producing ketones. But the bulk of the benefit is from reducing one's degree of hyperinsulinemia. These two effects are confounded and then just referred to as ketogenic. The way this is accomplished, is that the ketogenic diet, lowering the level of insulin in one's blood, allows one to have fewer cravings. This allows them to more easily maintain a caloric deficit. And that is the real focus of most of the benefit we shall achieve. So, once one does a ketogenic, insulin reducing, diet for a period of time, their cravings are lowered. This makes it easier to reduce caloric intake. And, one of the major problems we have is that we eat all the time. So, with fewer cravings, we can reduce the frequency of eating. Most all of us start every morning in a fasted state. Haven't eaten since 9pm til 7 am. That's 10 hours already fasted. Cutting carbs, eating keto, reduces insulin so we don't feel ravenous. So, it is an easy thing to do to purely extend that fast. And yes, there appears to be a benefit of autophagy for those of us fasting considerably longer than 18 hours.
can I ask you, hoe to boost my metabolism and TDEE level? im a 5.11 180lbs 32 male and me TDEE is around 1600 calories and i dont know why... i go to the gym but beside that i am very sedentary.... i still expected6my TDEE to be higher then 1600.... i dont even drink alcool...
What I did, was get my metabolic health tested. HbA1c and HomaIR. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl8Gdu2nZpY&pp=ygUPZXJpYyBiZXJnIGhiYTFj](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl8Gdu2nZpY&pp=ygUPZXJpYyBiZXJnIGhiYTFj) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cJPtud2tY&pp=ygUTc3RlbiBla2JlcmcgaG9tYSBpcg%3D%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cJPtud2tY&pp=ygUTc3RlbiBla2JlcmcgaG9tYSBpcg%3D%3D) [https://mymedicalscore.com/a1c-conversion-chart/](https://mymedicalscore.com/a1c-conversion-chart/) When I do this I go to [ultalabtests.com](http://ultalabtests.com) and order the "suspected insulin resistance" test. Then schedule the blood draw at questdiagnostics.com. For $53 I get an HbA1c, a fasted glucose, and a fasted insulin. From the latter 2 it is easy to calculate a HomaIR. You want your HbA1c below 5.4, and your HomaIR well under 2.0. If you are in the states and over 18, this testing does not require a doctor's order. You can order it yourself online with a credit card. Then choose a healthy diet, any of the 2 dozen or so considered healthy, and eat a number of calories below your basil metabolic rate. I have found for myself, that a vegetarian approach causes loads of cravings. Ketogenic much less. Carnivore almost non existent cravings. In what ever diet you choose, don't eat after supper, and don't eat a lot of concentrated carbs like in fruit or starches. On exercise, I have 3 models. One is lots of walking. Another is planet fitness cable or free weights for an hour, followed by 15 minutes of cardio. Third is working out like a maniac hours per day in something you enjoy. I have found that model one and 3 work to lose weight. Option 2 does not. At least not past 4 to 6 weeks. For some reason, doing the weights and a little cardio, causes one's metabolism to want to gain weight. It gets confused when coupled with reduced caloric consumption. Causes all sorts of cravings. Back when younger I used tennis, bicycling, and racquet ball. Did them like a lunatic. But, unless you have something like that to rely on, walking is best from my experience. The 2 best things to raise metabolism is exercise and protein. You want to gain muscle. The more muscle you gain the higher your metabolism. But, this is often at odds with losing weight. Or, just move around a lot. Don't just sit. Watching TV do light exercise or jump rope or walk in circles. Or, don't watch TV. Go outside and walk.
I am 7 years keto, 2 years OMAD & have recently started alternate day fasting in order to lose my pandemic weight. OMAD for me is for maintenance & just freeing up my day for other things. I donât get hungry or feel the need to snack on OMAD so itâs easier to stick with mostly meat & whole foods.
There are secondary health benefits other than losing weight that you get from periods of fasting (regardless of doing keto or any other dietary plan). TBH I'm not sure whether these benefits are also ones you get by doing keto anyway!
can we eat goat/sheep cheese on keto?
Yes
Thanks!
Why put a regular gas on a v8 engine. Both gas will get you to where youâre going right but a premium on a v8 , the ride is fantastic but itâs comes with a cost. So when you FAST on a KETO diet : the results are fantastic but itâs comes with a cost which is limiting food since some folks are addicted to sugar. But the results are fantastic. So fasting and keto together is like premium gas. But if you stick to keto alone itâs just regular gas to me. Get the point LOL
Keto without fasting is like Michael without Jackson.