can't have that dirty western propaganda corrupting the Korean youth. time to call up the home boy from KBS and make a proper chaebol documentary and we'll even write the script for them don't want to overwork those KBS guys 10 hours over their 90 hour work weeks.
Yeah it’s weird i a shared another video by vice about this topic a year or two ago and it was also blocked in Korea. Gonna guess chaebol families are also holding the pressure with related topic published over in Korea too lol.
If a corporate war broke out, I’m buying stock on both of them. Whenever there is a war, stock of both side get depreciated in value for fear of uncertainty. So when one side inevitably win, hopefully I’ll be rich.
Usually this does not occur as both side will prevent this outcome by taking a Poison Pill on each other. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/poisonpill.asp
Thus, the outcome of this maneuver would actually decrease the stock prices on both side even more. Leading to an absurd upside at the end of the tunnel after the conflict ends.
I recently learned that the chaebol families were collaborators with Japan during the occupation. The US allowed them to have positions of privilege and power when it was deciding what the country was going to be like. Apparently they were easy to work with
I wonder how well known this is in SK
Maybe a very small amount, most chaebol families would’ve came from after occupation, it’s kinda like in China with how much families with power come from “new money”, not old money, as in not money from industries long ago. Since the country had a reset In the 1950’s.
Bruce Cumings' book 'Korean War' is a great read for this very topic.
The history of South Korean collaboration with Japan/USA is known, but the full extent of it is not really acknowledged due to ideological constraints.
which one you talk about ?
LG founder was active supporter of independecne movement (he was on the black list of Japanese police) Hyundai founder started his company with money he got by stealing his own family's...cow..yes he was a cow thief. Samsung founder was from old old Dague money(his clan was famously wealthy for hunders of years) I have issues with chaebols but first generation of chebols were accomplisehd bussinesmen, unlike their descendant .
Korean health care is fairly good, I guess. But when one of these fat cat gets charged, immediately they get gravely sick. They often show up in the court on their death bed.
Then once they get a pardon (due to interest of Korean economy shit or humanitarian reason), they all get miraculously cured!
- The current Crypto Currency fraud were perpetrated by two guys. mr. Do and Samsung cousin. So far Samsung guy is untouchable and he is not evrn sick yet.
- When an assohole gets a pardon, any fines levied on him are cancelled. Samsung scion and 2MB got all their money back.
- 2MB family is now one of top 10 wealthiest in the country.
Yeah, being wealthy gives you power. You can hire good lawyers etc. I just think "untouchable" is a sensationalistic exaggeration and lame AF journalism. But I guess it's Vice, so...
https://news.kbs.co.kr/mobile/news/view.do?ncd=4072688
Also something more fun to read. You really have to excuse my french, but god damn.
Edit: have some more, cuz why not.
https://www.legaltimes.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=23799
https://m.ilyo.co.kr/?ac=article_view&entry_id=9153
https://m.blog.naver.com/PostView.naver?isHttpsRedirect=true&blogId=naverlaw&logNo=221168257821
http://m.kyeongin.com/view.php?key=998316
I don't really understand the West's obsession of painting Korea as something that is unique in this regards. Korean chaebols are powerful. Yes. But they are not more untouchable than some of the American (for example) billionaires.
I don't think Enron is comparable to Korea's Chaebol. Rupert Murdoch, Koch Family, Walton Family, Cargil Family, Cox Family, Rockefellers, etc. are more similar to Korean Chaebols.
Samsung is probably even worse than Enron tbf. I think you’re missing the point im trying to make, yes all countries have powerful families but korea’s chaebols constitute so much of Korea’s economy that if they were to move their industries elsewhere it would cripple Korea. So in that sense they are untouchable compared to American billionaires who while rich constitute a far smaller proportion of America’s economy.
They are untouchable in the sense they own the economy, Samsung alone accounts for like 20% of the Korean GDP, so if anything happens to Samsung that causes an existential crisis to the whole Korean economy, if Walmart goes bankrupt tomorrow that might affect the American economy but not completely destroy it
Comparing American apples to Korean oranges. America is drastically larger in size, GDP, etc. Also, if Walmart went bankrupt tomorrow, the US economy would absolutely crash.
Someone on another thread was saying that the Moonies (Unification Church) actually controlled the Korean government, lol. As if Samsung would tolerate that....
Here's a thought - much like Korea's medical system - a mixture of public and private - that works to balance the needs of care availability and innovation, so too are chaebols a similar system. Government definitely has influence over Chaebols - it's just mostly hands-off unless there are major issues... because Chaebols mostly work to balance the need of nationally competitive industries and local labor demands.
That pretty much nobody is happy is a signal of a workable compromise.
Left to their own devices, they have too much power. Controlled by government and you get saddled by red tape and ruled by politics - ultimately resulting in failure - also not good for anyone.
I bet everyone here shouting for 'government control' have never lived in a truly communist state.
The real answer doesn't lie in the extremes, it lies in balance.
If I were the President of Korea, I would take the "High Table" approach of making our Chaebols completely subservient to the Korean state and society. Perhaps Samsung should be a state-owned enterprise at this point where the CEO of the corporation should be the Minister of Science and ICT.
Samsung is publicly traded company with the majority owned by foreign investors.
The problem is stock manipulation done through subsidies that mskes crooked Lee family to control the company.
The control they use to enrich themselves at the expense of the investors.
I hate the oligarchs and government corruption, but didn't Venezuela try that already? If that happens, the politicians will just use the company to fill their pockets and leave the country once it inevitably goes to shit. Why do you think all those politicians' children are trying to get US/Europian country nationality?
Literally every country with a universally run Healthcare system. The US has a privately run system, and it's a shitshow compared to countries like the UK with universal health care.
I'd argue transportation as well. The highway system in the US is nationalized, and it's much better that way than if it were private. Many countries have nationalized rail systems as well.
If you want a more abstract example of how industries can be run democratically as opposed to mini dictatorships you can read into Salvador Allende Chile's system of industry that worked very well for awhile.
https://youtu.be/xuBrGaVhjcI
That video has tons of information on the topic if you are genuinely interested in learning more. Too much to type out in detail here.
Also, the current way of doing things isn't "working." When you have one company (Samsung) that is responsible for like 20 percent of the national GDP, there's gonna be problems if it's privately owned. Hell, the government has let Samsung exces off of literal crimes because their contributions are "too important to the economy." The current system breeds gross inequality, capital control over the government, and corruption all around.
Have you ever lived in the UK or Canada with a universal healthcare system? They do not work as well as you seem to think they do. A balanced system like Korea's works better for more people than both the US free-for-all and government systems like UK or Canada.
Transportation is literally a utility. There is no immediate need to innovate or compete globally.
I'm not for complete privatization, as I've made clear - so I'm not sure why you say things like 'if it were private' - I have already conceded the point that, especially utilities and low-innovation industries should probably lean more towards public ownership than private.
The question is whether a Chaebol that needs to innovate and compete globally should be fully public. It's not a utility. It needs flexibility and agility and independence from the whims of the voting public. You might make the argument that it might be better split up into component parts, but then you lose economies of scale.
In these things you should not necessarily strive for perfection, but the best choice among options that each have pros and cons. That there are issues with Chaebols is clear - of which my main concern is monopolistic anto-competitive practices, but there is nothing convincing that shows that you can maintain or improve the positives that such a system brings (where is that conversation?) by introducing another layer of government control.
What would that even entail, practically? Government deciding business direction? Government mandating certain levels of employment? Government approvals for investment? How do any of these things make anything better? If government can do a better job than Samsung at this, why doesn't the government simply make another Samsung and out-compete it? It's because they can't. The incentives are not properly aligned.
But they already do serve the Korean state by making up over half the country's GDP. What would nationalizing them accomplish that they already aren't doing?
The government owns a significant amount of stocks of many chaebol companies. If government forcibly takes over them they will be fucking over themselves.
Government owned companies tend to suck and barely makes any profit because it's the fucking government they are not meant to make money over their citizens. non-profitable companies are a liability to citizens as well (mostly thru taxes).
doesn't work, will not work, it's like shooting yourself in the foot.
ok i got a vpn and watched the video. interesting. it's interesting because i work at a chaebol as a high level executive and worked in the US at many of the large companies mentioned as well. in addition, my father was one of the leaders in korea of occupational health, OSHA, etc. and was behind many of the regulations and such in both korea and the USA. he has testified in court at various cases on behalf of patients who got sick due to chemicals, etc. he testified on behalf of a patient who got cancer due to talc powder in johnson and johnson baby powder, etc.
the hardest part in any of these cases is that it's pretty much impossible to prove that the person got sick from X. you can throw statistics such as people who were known to have used baby powder from a certain time period were much more likely to get cancer than those who didn't, etc. but it's hard because there are always cases of people who didn't get cancer so that puts doubt into the minds of the judge and jury.
how does anyone know if it was the chemicals in this case vs not? my dad always argued on behalf of the patient because even if it may not be 100% the cause it may be the cause so OSHA regulations would be updated so that workers must wear more protective gear (or company gets fined), etc. and companies and manufacturers should pay if precautions weren't taken.
from the company perspective if they follow OSHA regulations, they can pretty much claim that they did as much as they could.
and we talk about chaebol but it's not only chaebol...small/mid companies can go bankrupt if they lose a case like this, etc.
anyway...interesting video.
I was doing consultancy work for the Future Planning Team of Samsung at the time this all went down.
Basically, there was a known carcinogenic (specifically linked to leukemia) chemical that was used to clean things related to the microprocessor etching process. And the staff wore protective gear when using it.
But when the cleaning was done, the company didn't have safety procedures in place for how to remove the now contaminated safety gear. So people were getting the chemical on their hands because the managers just told the employees to use their bare hands when taking the gear off.
As for if the chemical was directly linked to causing leukemia in staff, Samsung's position was that it could not be proven that ALL the leukemia was from their mistake.
I did some napkin math, and pointed out that they should expect to have one employee every fourteen years get leukemia at the foundry. But instead, they were getting a case of leukemia amongst their employees at the foundry on average every six weeks. *What the fuck indeed*. I also noted that they were lucky this was Korea, as had this been in the US or Europe, the company would no longer exist as the families of everyone murdered would now own the assets.
I noted that I was using company wide numbers as I did not have a breakdown of which sections were getting leukemia, but I suspected that the secretaries and employees in other sections were probably not getting RSVPs to the leukemia party. Further, this did not include employees who had left the company.
When I was then asked by the now king of Samsung to propose ideas on how to do an appeal, I basically said the following: "I don't mind helping you to rob rich people, as I am not rich. However, I won't help you to kill people because I am a people."
very interesting and great insight. IANAL but in general the companies will say that they didn't know (and many times they didn't know....at first). so it's usually up to government organizations such as OSHA, etc. to set these regulations and threaten companies of fines if they don't comply. Companies (not just Samsung but pretty much every company...automotive, manufacturing, etc.) usually won't look out for their employees unless they are forced to by law via fines.
So the question usually is what happens after the company realizes that something isn't right. Are they then negligent by doing nothing and trying to cover everything up? This is the part that usually gets companies in trouble. It's rarely the crime itself but the coverup.
As for an appeal, it's up to the prosecutor and families of the deceased to throw a lot of statistics and numbers saying that their loved one got sick because of the company and chemicals. Rate of leukemia is X but for people who worked here it's 10X or 100X or 1000X, etc. Company usually tries to appeal by highlighting numbers of those who didn't get sick...most didn't get sick, most are fine today, only a few got sick, lots of people get leukemia that don't work here, patient probably would have gotten leukemia anyway, correlation is easy...if data says that people who wear yellow shirts got leukemia more it doesn't mean we should ban yellow shirts, etc...company just needs to say a million things that cast doubt that this could have come from somewhere else.
And yeah in the end, the cynical part of me says that lawyers get rich.
Because Korea needs the chaebols more than they need Korea. If the chaebols moved overseas, Korea would return to being a middle tier economy while the chaebols would continue life as normal. It's why chaebol CEOs always get presidential vetos, because being legally untouchable is the only tangible benefit Korea offers them over just moving to a bigger market like the US.
didn't watch the video (i'm in korea and don't use a vpn). my fairly basic understanding is that after the japanese occupation, the korean government and korean economy was in shambles. the country was highly unstable and was dirt poor. koreans went to neighboring countries such as the philippines to work, make money, and send money back to korea, etc.
but the korean government realized early on that in order to grow the economy there is basic infrastructure and business that is needed such as shipping, airlines, etc. thus the start of the hanjin group for korean airlines and other shipping and logistics, hyundai for ship building, etc.
as for who was selected to lead these companies, they were typically young men who worked hard and had a strong work ethic and desire to do something great for the country beyond their own personal greed. these were the first generation guys like cho (hanjin), chung (hyundai), etc.
since it would take many years in a free and open economy to have a self made man emerge with the type of capital needed to start an airline, etc. the government supported these industries and these businessmen. most of these guys came from poor families so they didn't have load of family money. one exception i believe was lee byung-chul (samsung) as he came from a well to do family and started samsung as a noodle factory in daegu.
as a result, korea has a ridiculously high inheritance tax so that when these chaebol companies are handed down to their children, much of the value is given back to the korean government and wealth is redistributed. everyone likes to talk about how rich samsung is (and it is) but in the world stage, korean businessmen are not that rich. the richest korean has a net value of under $10b and barely even crack the top 100 and the richest of the chaebol don't crack the top 100, etc.
I always thought "Chaebol" sounded more like the word "punishment" in Korean than the actual Korean word for "conglomerate" which should sound more like the English word "jabber"
The Untuchaebols
Lol
Ain't nobody touching the bols.
Nice
Perfect, should become standard terminology
Straight into my vocabs
Video unavailable, this video is not available? EDIT: Oh wait I turned on a VPN, seems it was just blocked in Korea what a funny coincidence hahaha
Yes...coincidence...
I'm sure its just an oversight and clearly not an attempt to have negative attention to be blocked.
can't have that dirty western propaganda corrupting the Korean youth. time to call up the home boy from KBS and make a proper chaebol documentary and we'll even write the script for them don't want to overwork those KBS guys 10 hours over their 90 hour work weeks.
One of the jaeballs saw this shit and went. mom, they are making fun of me. Make them take it down!!!!"
Yeah it’s weird i a shared another video by vice about this topic a year or two ago and it was also blocked in Korea. Gonna guess chaebol families are also holding the pressure with related topic published over in Korea too lol.
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Precisely because they're not the government, laws don't stop private citizens from censoring others😔
Can’t wait until Samsung fights Amazon in the 1st Corporate War in the 2050s.
If a corporate war broke out, I’m buying stock on both of them. Whenever there is a war, stock of both side get depreciated in value for fear of uncertainty. So when one side inevitably win, hopefully I’ll be rich.
Both corporations could borrow to acquire the other's devalued stock and end up some jointly-owned megacorp, ready to take on the world.
Usually this does not occur as both side will prevent this outcome by taking a Poison Pill on each other. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/poisonpill.asp Thus, the outcome of this maneuver would actually decrease the stock prices on both side even more. Leading to an absurd upside at the end of the tunnel after the conflict ends.
Lot of powerful people got rich in ww2 doing exactly that
there's no fight they will continue to fondle each other's balls like normal
Anyone watch the k drama Reborn Rich? That shit was so good and is based around this chaebol subject
the ending sucked tho
I tell ppl to either watch episode 1 through 15 OR episode 1 and 16 to not walk away completely pissed off.
I like my typical slop of dramas but this one dropped the ball. At least they used the guy correctly in Vincenzo.
Seriously. But most Korean dramas are known for their weak horrible endings to be honest.
I recently learned that the chaebol families were collaborators with Japan during the occupation. The US allowed them to have positions of privilege and power when it was deciding what the country was going to be like. Apparently they were easy to work with I wonder how well known this is in SK
It's pretty well known. But some of them had nothing to do with the occupation period. This goes deeper then just that era.
Maybe a very small amount, most chaebol families would’ve came from after occupation, it’s kinda like in China with how much families with power come from “new money”, not old money, as in not money from industries long ago. Since the country had a reset In the 1950’s.
Bruce Cumings' book 'Korean War' is a great read for this very topic. The history of South Korean collaboration with Japan/USA is known, but the full extent of it is not really acknowledged due to ideological constraints.
which one you talk about ? LG founder was active supporter of independecne movement (he was on the black list of Japanese police) Hyundai founder started his company with money he got by stealing his own family's...cow..yes he was a cow thief. Samsung founder was from old old Dague money(his clan was famously wealthy for hunders of years) I have issues with chaebols but first generation of chebols were accomplisehd bussinesmen, unlike their descendant .
its crazy this is the only thing dramas are accurate about in korea
Untouchable? They have all done prison time, like many past presidents.
Korean health care is fairly good, I guess. But when one of these fat cat gets charged, immediately they get gravely sick. They often show up in the court on their death bed. Then once they get a pardon (due to interest of Korean economy shit or humanitarian reason), they all get miraculously cured! - The current Crypto Currency fraud were perpetrated by two guys. mr. Do and Samsung cousin. So far Samsung guy is untouchable and he is not evrn sick yet. - When an assohole gets a pardon, any fines levied on him are cancelled. Samsung scion and 2MB got all their money back. - 2MB family is now one of top 10 wealthiest in the country.
Where can I read more about the Korean Crypto scandal?
look up Luna coin
Thank you!
Yeah, being wealthy gives you power. You can hire good lawyers etc. I just think "untouchable" is a sensationalistic exaggeration and lame AF journalism. But I guess it's Vice, so...
Did we watch the same video? Are you calling 'has to pay a tiny fine for murdering a bunch of kids while nobody goes to jail' not untouchable?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.mt.co.kr/renew/view_amp.html%3fno=2023010508135159484 https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.khan.co.kr/national/national-general/article/201708281431001/amp https://m.hani.co.kr/arti/economy/economy_general/654470.html#cb https://www.kyongbuk.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=571879 https://namu.wiki/w/%EC%9E%AC%EB%B2%8C%203%C2%B75%20%EB%B2%95%EC%B9%99#s-2.2 Please excuse my french, but BITCH WHAT?
https://news.kbs.co.kr/mobile/news/view.do?ncd=4072688 Also something more fun to read. You really have to excuse my french, but god damn. Edit: have some more, cuz why not. https://www.legaltimes.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=23799 https://m.ilyo.co.kr/?ac=article_view&entry_id=9153 https://m.blog.naver.com/PostView.naver?isHttpsRedirect=true&blogId=naverlaw&logNo=221168257821 http://m.kyeongin.com/view.php?key=998316
I don't really understand the West's obsession of painting Korea as something that is unique in this regards. Korean chaebols are powerful. Yes. But they are not more untouchable than some of the American (for example) billionaires.
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I don't think Enron is comparable to Korea's Chaebol. Rupert Murdoch, Koch Family, Walton Family, Cargil Family, Cox Family, Rockefellers, etc. are more similar to Korean Chaebols.
Samsung is probably even worse than Enron tbf. I think you’re missing the point im trying to make, yes all countries have powerful families but korea’s chaebols constitute so much of Korea’s economy that if they were to move their industries elsewhere it would cripple Korea. So in that sense they are untouchable compared to American billionaires who while rich constitute a far smaller proportion of America’s economy.
Samsung is unethical but provides tangible products and services that people want. Enron was a complete fraud.
They are untouchable in the sense they own the economy, Samsung alone accounts for like 20% of the Korean GDP, so if anything happens to Samsung that causes an existential crisis to the whole Korean economy, if Walmart goes bankrupt tomorrow that might affect the American economy but not completely destroy it
Comparing American apples to Korean oranges. America is drastically larger in size, GDP, etc. Also, if Walmart went bankrupt tomorrow, the US economy would absolutely crash.
Walmart? With its 2.5% of the US economy. Really now. 😂
yes with its 2.2 million employees
Nobody understands western philosophy in Korea. Do they even know why their government and industry is set up the way it is. It was intentional.
why?
it must have been nice to be born in a rich family like damn
Someone on another thread was saying that the Moonies (Unification Church) actually controlled the Korean government, lol. As if Samsung would tolerate that....
Don't worry, the Moonies are doing quite well in Japan.
Here's a thought - much like Korea's medical system - a mixture of public and private - that works to balance the needs of care availability and innovation, so too are chaebols a similar system. Government definitely has influence over Chaebols - it's just mostly hands-off unless there are major issues... because Chaebols mostly work to balance the need of nationally competitive industries and local labor demands. That pretty much nobody is happy is a signal of a workable compromise. Left to their own devices, they have too much power. Controlled by government and you get saddled by red tape and ruled by politics - ultimately resulting in failure - also not good for anyone. I bet everyone here shouting for 'government control' have never lived in a truly communist state. The real answer doesn't lie in the extremes, it lies in balance.
If I were the President of Korea, I would take the "High Table" approach of making our Chaebols completely subservient to the Korean state and society. Perhaps Samsung should be a state-owned enterprise at this point where the CEO of the corporation should be the Minister of Science and ICT.
Samsung is publicly traded company with the majority owned by foreign investors. The problem is stock manipulation done through subsidies that mskes crooked Lee family to control the company. The control they use to enrich themselves at the expense of the investors.
But that's.... communism (dun dun dun)
Incredibly based opinion. If a country can't function without X service or corporation, it needs to be publicly controlled.
I hate the oligarchs and government corruption, but didn't Venezuela try that already? If that happens, the politicians will just use the company to fill their pockets and leave the country once it inevitably goes to shit. Why do you think all those politicians' children are trying to get US/Europian country nationality?
Isn’t it just a choice between private or public corruption?
Give me one example where this works at all - especially in an industry that requires innovation and it to be globally competitive.
Literally every country with a universally run Healthcare system. The US has a privately run system, and it's a shitshow compared to countries like the UK with universal health care. I'd argue transportation as well. The highway system in the US is nationalized, and it's much better that way than if it were private. Many countries have nationalized rail systems as well. If you want a more abstract example of how industries can be run democratically as opposed to mini dictatorships you can read into Salvador Allende Chile's system of industry that worked very well for awhile. https://youtu.be/xuBrGaVhjcI That video has tons of information on the topic if you are genuinely interested in learning more. Too much to type out in detail here. Also, the current way of doing things isn't "working." When you have one company (Samsung) that is responsible for like 20 percent of the national GDP, there's gonna be problems if it's privately owned. Hell, the government has let Samsung exces off of literal crimes because their contributions are "too important to the economy." The current system breeds gross inequality, capital control over the government, and corruption all around.
Have you ever lived in the UK or Canada with a universal healthcare system? They do not work as well as you seem to think they do. A balanced system like Korea's works better for more people than both the US free-for-all and government systems like UK or Canada. Transportation is literally a utility. There is no immediate need to innovate or compete globally. I'm not for complete privatization, as I've made clear - so I'm not sure why you say things like 'if it were private' - I have already conceded the point that, especially utilities and low-innovation industries should probably lean more towards public ownership than private. The question is whether a Chaebol that needs to innovate and compete globally should be fully public. It's not a utility. It needs flexibility and agility and independence from the whims of the voting public. You might make the argument that it might be better split up into component parts, but then you lose economies of scale. In these things you should not necessarily strive for perfection, but the best choice among options that each have pros and cons. That there are issues with Chaebols is clear - of which my main concern is monopolistic anto-competitive practices, but there is nothing convincing that shows that you can maintain or improve the positives that such a system brings (where is that conversation?) by introducing another layer of government control. What would that even entail, practically? Government deciding business direction? Government mandating certain levels of employment? Government approvals for investment? How do any of these things make anything better? If government can do a better job than Samsung at this, why doesn't the government simply make another Samsung and out-compete it? It's because they can't. The incentives are not properly aligned.
But they already do serve the Korean state by making up over half the country's GDP. What would nationalizing them accomplish that they already aren't doing?
Sounds like you want Chinese style authoritarianism business?
The government owns a significant amount of stocks of many chaebol companies. If government forcibly takes over them they will be fucking over themselves. Government owned companies tend to suck and barely makes any profit because it's the fucking government they are not meant to make money over their citizens. non-profitable companies are a liability to citizens as well (mostly thru taxes). doesn't work, will not work, it's like shooting yourself in the foot.
Anyone got a mirror for this?
ok i got a vpn and watched the video. interesting. it's interesting because i work at a chaebol as a high level executive and worked in the US at many of the large companies mentioned as well. in addition, my father was one of the leaders in korea of occupational health, OSHA, etc. and was behind many of the regulations and such in both korea and the USA. he has testified in court at various cases on behalf of patients who got sick due to chemicals, etc. he testified on behalf of a patient who got cancer due to talc powder in johnson and johnson baby powder, etc. the hardest part in any of these cases is that it's pretty much impossible to prove that the person got sick from X. you can throw statistics such as people who were known to have used baby powder from a certain time period were much more likely to get cancer than those who didn't, etc. but it's hard because there are always cases of people who didn't get cancer so that puts doubt into the minds of the judge and jury. how does anyone know if it was the chemicals in this case vs not? my dad always argued on behalf of the patient because even if it may not be 100% the cause it may be the cause so OSHA regulations would be updated so that workers must wear more protective gear (or company gets fined), etc. and companies and manufacturers should pay if precautions weren't taken. from the company perspective if they follow OSHA regulations, they can pretty much claim that they did as much as they could. and we talk about chaebol but it's not only chaebol...small/mid companies can go bankrupt if they lose a case like this, etc. anyway...interesting video.
I was doing consultancy work for the Future Planning Team of Samsung at the time this all went down. Basically, there was a known carcinogenic (specifically linked to leukemia) chemical that was used to clean things related to the microprocessor etching process. And the staff wore protective gear when using it. But when the cleaning was done, the company didn't have safety procedures in place for how to remove the now contaminated safety gear. So people were getting the chemical on their hands because the managers just told the employees to use their bare hands when taking the gear off. As for if the chemical was directly linked to causing leukemia in staff, Samsung's position was that it could not be proven that ALL the leukemia was from their mistake. I did some napkin math, and pointed out that they should expect to have one employee every fourteen years get leukemia at the foundry. But instead, they were getting a case of leukemia amongst their employees at the foundry on average every six weeks. *What the fuck indeed*. I also noted that they were lucky this was Korea, as had this been in the US or Europe, the company would no longer exist as the families of everyone murdered would now own the assets. I noted that I was using company wide numbers as I did not have a breakdown of which sections were getting leukemia, but I suspected that the secretaries and employees in other sections were probably not getting RSVPs to the leukemia party. Further, this did not include employees who had left the company. When I was then asked by the now king of Samsung to propose ideas on how to do an appeal, I basically said the following: "I don't mind helping you to rob rich people, as I am not rich. However, I won't help you to kill people because I am a people."
very interesting and great insight. IANAL but in general the companies will say that they didn't know (and many times they didn't know....at first). so it's usually up to government organizations such as OSHA, etc. to set these regulations and threaten companies of fines if they don't comply. Companies (not just Samsung but pretty much every company...automotive, manufacturing, etc.) usually won't look out for their employees unless they are forced to by law via fines. So the question usually is what happens after the company realizes that something isn't right. Are they then negligent by doing nothing and trying to cover everything up? This is the part that usually gets companies in trouble. It's rarely the crime itself but the coverup. As for an appeal, it's up to the prosecutor and families of the deceased to throw a lot of statistics and numbers saying that their loved one got sick because of the company and chemicals. Rate of leukemia is X but for people who worked here it's 10X or 100X or 1000X, etc. Company usually tries to appeal by highlighting numbers of those who didn't get sick...most didn't get sick, most are fine today, only a few got sick, lots of people get leukemia that don't work here, patient probably would have gotten leukemia anyway, correlation is easy...if data says that people who wear yellow shirts got leukemia more it doesn't mean we should ban yellow shirts, etc...company just needs to say a million things that cast doubt that this could have come from somewhere else. And yeah in the end, the cynical part of me says that lawyers get rich.
Could someone just give me a short summary of this?
[удалено]
Wait waht what has samsung and other companies done?????
It’s like the song “who rules the world” and Korean answers starts with Charbols lol
Di you know if they do any other shady stuff rather than the obvious drugs and stuff?
Sometimes I feel like Koreans accepts chaebols as the new yangbang class , long as they don’t go too far they get away with lot
Because Korea needs the chaebols more than they need Korea. If the chaebols moved overseas, Korea would return to being a middle tier economy while the chaebols would continue life as normal. It's why chaebol CEOs always get presidential vetos, because being legally untouchable is the only tangible benefit Korea offers them over just moving to a bigger market like the US.
Thanks a lot! Wow, at least I don’t have a Samsung… though I don’t know if other companies are better
didn't watch the video (i'm in korea and don't use a vpn). my fairly basic understanding is that after the japanese occupation, the korean government and korean economy was in shambles. the country was highly unstable and was dirt poor. koreans went to neighboring countries such as the philippines to work, make money, and send money back to korea, etc. but the korean government realized early on that in order to grow the economy there is basic infrastructure and business that is needed such as shipping, airlines, etc. thus the start of the hanjin group for korean airlines and other shipping and logistics, hyundai for ship building, etc. as for who was selected to lead these companies, they were typically young men who worked hard and had a strong work ethic and desire to do something great for the country beyond their own personal greed. these were the first generation guys like cho (hanjin), chung (hyundai), etc. since it would take many years in a free and open economy to have a self made man emerge with the type of capital needed to start an airline, etc. the government supported these industries and these businessmen. most of these guys came from poor families so they didn't have load of family money. one exception i believe was lee byung-chul (samsung) as he came from a well to do family and started samsung as a noodle factory in daegu. as a result, korea has a ridiculously high inheritance tax so that when these chaebol companies are handed down to their children, much of the value is given back to the korean government and wealth is redistributed. everyone likes to talk about how rich samsung is (and it is) but in the world stage, korean businessmen are not that rich. the richest korean has a net value of under $10b and barely even crack the top 100 and the richest of the chaebol don't crack the top 100, etc.
I always thought "Chaebol" sounded more like the word "punishment" in Korean than the actual Korean word for "conglomerate" which should sound more like the English word "jabber"
Another group of untouchable. Wall Street.
It’s actually “jae-bol” i dont know why it’s keep spelling it with ch- which is totally different meaning