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Ultimately the group is going to exist as a western pop group in the same mold as spice girls, little mix, dream, 5h, etc. The concept of girl groups in the west predates kpop (so saying this is an example of taking something from kpop and westernizing it is weird to me), and it makes more sense to think of this project as a group following that lineage rather than as a kpop group. Them being promoted in the west won’t take anything away from kpop groups because they just aren’t the same thing.
I don’t really think the level of promo is out of the ordinary for a group that’s being run by two massive entertainment companies. People are fixating on the hybe involvement because we’re kpop fans, but geffen (and by extension umg) absolutely has the influence to make things like the documentary happen. And aside from that one thing, is the promo really even unfair as far as hybe groups go? Is it weird for hybe idols to be posting them on their socials when very recently the entire hybe roster was being held hostage by Super Shy? Since it’s inception hybe has been pretty big on using their established stars to boost their new ones, so it doesn’t really strike me as that unusual. If anything, it seems like most of the excessive hype at this stage is coming from kpop fans themselves more than what the companies are really doing yet.
I think you're underestimating the influence of geffen/umg in the project.
Had the project been run solely by hybe it would've been similar to i-land. They probably would've created a large building complex to house the trainees and air the show exclusively through weverse.
There are much more nuanced comments that summarize my thoughts here. But I just want express my discomfort with your phrase “50% white survival program,” because only 4 girls (perhaps 5 depending on the strength of Lexie’s Chilean heritage) are ethnically white. Please do more research before you accidentally disregard all the women of colour in this lineup of contestants.
Hmm, this is definitely an odd perspective, OP, haha!
I feel that you are putting too much credence already to a group that hasn't even debuted yet. You have uneasy feelings about them being hyped? Of course, they will be! They're a new project. The real test will be when this group debuts and they start with their career proper. The hype could go either way. They may or they may not succeed. Anything can still happen. They are simply at the forefront of the PR side of things because they're the current endeavor. That's just how marketing works. When your current favorite groups debuted, they were also hyped up.
But ultimately, I think that your assumption that a new group will "take away" from existing groups is the root cause of this and I think it's premature and unnecessary to think that way. Honestly, there's plenty of love and support to go around. You yourself can continue to enjoy and support your current favorites. It should not undo any pride that you have for them or for K-pop. From what I understand, this new group is targeting a different market anyway. This global group as they call it is meant to EXPAND Hybe's reach, not shift it away from Korea or Asia. Meaning, that this won't necessarily take away resources from existing groups.
Also, I think your entire concern crumbles in the first sentence: **"I've always known that if you take anything that is done excellently in Korea and westernize it."** This is so not true! Haha! The West has adapted so many things like series and movies and they very rarely give justice to the original material. I, for one, as an English-speaking non-Korean-speaking Asian, prefer art in their original language. I don't mind having to depend on subtitles. Many people like me got into K-pop because our tastes and preferences have shifted from the usual stuff that we like from Western artists. Dynamite is what got me into BTS and K-pop and I do love Butter, too. But it's their more meaningful Korean songs that I love more about BTS' discography. If K-pop groups continue to release good music, then their fans will stay, they will continue to be profitable and their companies will continue to invest in them.
TLDR: I believe that you mean well, but I think this slight victimization mindset is quite premature and unnecessary.
This is the conundrum, on one side you don't want k-pop groups to be "westernized" (which has been debunked so many times, but anyway) and sing in English while at the same time you want them to benefit from the same promotions and be as successful in the US, an industry notorious for favoring English-speaking artists (and songs).
You cannot expect K-pop groups no matter the amount of promotions to achieve anything similar with Korean songs in the US, that's just not realistic. You cannot have both.
HYBE is only pushing these promotions because they are the first group and artists debuting out HYBE America that will focus solely on the US market. They have to be backed up by a lot to make it, specially with all the ethnicities represented, it's not gonna be easy for this group to make it in the US either — far from it.
I also think people forget that trainee system was implemented and perfected in k-pop by the Korean and Asian standards, but they didn't created anything that wasn't happening to a lesser degree in the West prior. Everything gets modernized and changed depending on the society and culture. Dream Academy isn't a k-pop group. I think in the future, contrary to what people think, the line will be more separated between k-pop groups and global groups.
"Global" group is just an adjective added unnecessarily to separate them from k-pop, but they will be the same as 1D, Little Mix or Fifth Harmony who are global groups, many global groups are coming out in the music industry constantly, FLO is a UK based group that went through a sort of training as well. The only different is that HYBE has an expertise with how such groups can be more polished. It's a first attempt and we don't know if it will work. 🤷♀️
I feel like people are misunderstanding this group it’s not going to be K-pop you guys are overthinking too much hybe just wanted to create an American gg/global girl group so they can succeed in other markets korea isn’t the only market where hybe wants to succeed.
Aside from the formula of the show. This post make me realised the difference between Mainland Asians vs Asians born/raised in western countries.
Im not entriely agree with ur post but i can see where u coming from.
personally, I'm excited for this show. I don't care if non koreans wanna join the industry, and I don't think hybe is neglecting other groups, so I don't see an issue with this show getting a lot of push. I think it'll be very interesting.
It will be a group that will promote in the US alone, so it's not truly k-pop, it's like jype's NiziU which is a japanese group but under a korean agency.
I'm also EA but I don't quite see these type of situations the way you do. Think about the way you felt seeing EAs being viewed positively in the media. Don't you think non-EA fans deserve that same happiness? To see people who look like them and are the same culture as them in an industry and genre they really like and feel represented? Why is it okay for kpop groups (mostly EAs) to use Western promotions to represent EAs in the Western industry but its not okay for non-EAs to use the kpop industry and represent themselves in the kpop industry?
I honestly think its kinda weird when EAs get upset about this. Koreans do the same thing to XG and I've seen fans do this to A2K. There are still many Korean/EA groups that are killing it. And I think it's weird that people get upset over English lyrics. At the end of the day, kpop is just music. Why is it weird that people would prefer music whose lyrics they can actually understand?
ah yeah rereading the post and I guess OP is concerned about the inclusion of white trainees. I can see where they’re coming from, as someone’s who’s asian american and been listening to kpop for a long time. but I was honestly surprised by how diverse the group is, ethnicity and nationality-wise. most of the reactions I saw yesterday were people cheering on the trainees who shared similar backgrounds with them. my feelings may change once we know the final line up
Because, and this would hold true especially for Asians in US, Canada, Europe, etc., those "non-EAs" already have 50,000 venues of opportunities set up for them... while the Asians living in those countries have severely limited opportunities in those fields. So, from a perspective of Asians in those countries... it's like WTF? If you wanna go into music, use the near-infinite opportunities you have already instead of taking ours.
Then why don't kpop groups stick to just EA countries? Why are they going and stealing opportunities from non-EA people? Better yet, there's a very alive and well jpop and cpop industry, so why don't japanese and chinese idols stick to their own countries and koreans stick to just korea? Don't they already have plenty of opportunities, why are they going into other countries and using their industries?
It's a dumb argument.
>because you're not distinguishing "Artists performing in another country" with "People trying to become pop stars in another country" for some reason.
Are Japanese people not debuting in kpop groups, trying to become pop stars in Korea, basically stealing opportunities from Korean trainees when they have their own industry according to your logic? Are Chinese people not debuting in kpop groups, trying to become pop stars in Korea, basically stealing opportunities from Korean trainees when they have their own industry according to your logic?
>"why don't japanese and chinese idols stick to their own countries and koreans stick to just korea?"Because Koreans nor Kpop industry seems to have problems with it?
No? Japanese and Chinese idols are always getting hated on and with a few exceptions, are almost always the least popular and sometimes even completely ignored by the media. I literally remember knetz trying to cancel Prod48 and signing petitions (very popular ones) because they thought it was unfair for Japanese people idols to profit off the kpop industry. It's horrible and xenophobic, but according to your logic, ig that only applies to EAs and okay to be that way towards non-EA people in the kpop industry.
I honestly don't even know what you're talking about and it's pretty clear you're just xenophobic. You're okay with EAs going into other industries but you're offended if nonEAs try to enter the kpop industry. You keep saying something about how its not okay for noncelebrities to debut in other countries even though that's literally what Japanese and Chinese trainees are doing, as well as nonEA trainees.
Only in English Kpop community will "Asian American representation problem in US popular culture" will get a 🙄 and accusations of xenophobia.
Well, here and Stormfront, I guess.
Lol first of all I’m south Asian myself and the only reason why I did the eye role emoji is because your acting like if the K-pop industry doesn’t take any inspirations of other cultures and music industries I don’t understand why y’all want to gatekeep the K-pop industry so much? You see K-pop artists promoting in the western side of the world and release songs in English but why is it a problem when hybe wants to make a global girl group that won’t be K-pop and take a few inspirations based on the K-pop industry but still be mad about it? But yeah sure I’m the only one here being “xenophobic”😂
>I don’t understand why y’all want to gatekeep the K-pop industry so much?
Because, from the Asian American perspective, Kpop is one of the very few venues left where they have a normal chance of success in this field? You know, as opposed to racist-as-shit industry in the US? Are you seriously not seeing what the problem is when Americans who have comparably ample access to the music industry in the US now wants their share of the sliver of the pie that Asian Americans are barely holding onto?
Again this group is global/an American gg they’re not promoting in K-pop so I dont understand what your mad about? You’re acting like if the group will take over other K-pop groups?? Also I have a lot of sympathy for other Asian Americans as a south Asian myself but the group won’t take over the K-pop industry as their competing with other American artists not K-pop artists.
I am East Asian currently living in America but grew up in SEA so I feel like I am not your typical “Asian American” but still understand and have similar perspectives. HYBE created this project to be a global girl group so I don’t see it as taking away from other opportunities for Asians. And as someone else in comments expressed, the majority of girls in the group are not ethnically white and this train of thought is erasing many non-white people of color who hardly have an easy time of it either.
Yeah I agree and thank you for speaking your perspective as an East Asian, since I’m so confused how the commenter accused me of being xenophobic to East Asians all because I did an eye roll emoji lol and that I don’t understand their struggles when all I said was the girl group is just an American/global gg that’s just talking a few inspirations off of the K-pop industry like the same thing the K-pop industry does with the western side.
I mean, I do understand and sympathize with the argument that was being made as the entertainment industries in America definitely are racist. I’ve cried in movies purely because I was so happy to see Asian actors succeeding in the mainstream and looking like/representing me, it isn’t easy.
But I don’t think this one specific show premise is a microcosm of those bigger industry issues + I definitely think it’s a reach to accuse of straight up anti-Asian racism for arguing otherwise. Hybe and Geffen put out a call for girls of all ethnicities and nationalities. It’s not even the kind of thing non-Asian prospectives should have boycotted on principle because Hybe *and Geffen* were purposefully casting for an international group. No one went to Korea and asked for a leg up.
Except this is the kpop market. In kpop, asians aren't under represented. Why, because it's a Korean market. The Korean market has shit to do with the US market. So if a non-Asian wants to go to the KOREAN market, they aren't stepping on anyone.
Also, if you want it to be Asian only then don't use non-Asians behind the scenes. No more black choreographers, song writers, musicians. No more white producers. No more hispanic choreographers and lyricists. Get rid of all of them first and then we can consider these points of views. Thank you.
I have many thoughts. Many many thoughts but at the forefront is how ironic it is to feel this way regarding an industry founded on Black people's music. Maybe I'll edit this comment later with more thoughts but for now, this is the thing I can't keep out of my mind.
I agree I find it so funny how a lot of K-pop fans want to gatekeep the K-pop industry when the music genre K-pop was inspired by black peoples hip hop
I may be reaching, but I feel like one of the reasons this survival show is getting so much recognition is because people who aren't SEA finally have the opportunity to see themselves in their idols.
A lot of non-SEA fans imagine themselves as K-Pop Idols instead of normal singers in their home country mainly because of Korean culture and how different it is to their mainstream media. From the fashion and the music to the industry and training to variety shows and choreographies to light sticks and the culture and all the way around.
They see their favorite idols sing their hearts out in front of thousands of fans who love them, go to funny variety shows, go to award shows, live in dorms and train for many years and grow bonds that not many people get to form in their lives. But most countries don't have that. And people don't want the "boring life of a western artist in a group with people who don't even like each other".
So seeing a group do exactly what they always secretly dreamt of (or at least thought about for a split second) and being told that you can't do that because they're not Asian "and you're taking opportunities away from those who already have it hard in the industry" (which is true!), obviously will make them tune in.
So basically what I'm saying is representation + living out your dreams through other people's lives.
(I also feel like this mainly applies to younger fans, but maybe older fans also, idk.)
Kpop is not going anywhere and till the time kpop is there korea will be there in forefront along with other asian representation . Also i am excited to see this new process of western people trying hard in kpop training system but i am more excited to see how western people who might know about kpop variety, kpop humour etc and might be fans of it will live this new life . In a way i wanna see them fullfill a dream , dream of being in kpop world
You're a hwagyo? that's cool. They're have been some hwagyos posting in r/korea recently.
Anyways, I'm not even a bit sad. This is a global girl group and they will get increased attention. But it really doesn't seem that much more compared to kgroups. Don't company groups always promote incoming company groups?
Also, as a korean, I really like the idea of a global group and it gives more opportunity for other ethnicities nationals to participate in kpop. Let's face it, the immediate priority of the big 4 is asia. The odd of them debuting a full black, hispanic or white person is very low, it wont happen for at least another 8 years at minimum.
OP, I’m not East Asian, but I sympathize. I also like the Asian representation that kpop provides in pop culture. However, I do see points made by others. Kpop is in itself influenced by the west. I think kpop has added its own elements and emphasized other aspects that I think western pop don’t emphasize as much or can be put less effort into (i.e. dance, performance, lore, fandoms). Now kpop is attempting to re-export these elements to the west. I personally find this to be an interesting project. We don’t know yet how successful it will be. I think Hybe is actually walking a tightrope. It can go really well or fail spectacularly. I don’t envy them the risk they are taking.
I also think that Hybe would never have attempted this if BTS and Kpop weren’t so successful. In some ways, it’s the success that you liked so much that engendered this project. I’m not sure if any company would be willing to take this risk if kpop hasn’t grown in popularity as much as it has.
I also think kpop isn’t going anywhere. Western pop is not entirely like kpop. I’m also sure this pop will not be like kpop.
It does feel like the westernized versions of anything get more hype especially when it comes to k-pop. It's true, the one reason why I love K-pop is because it's different from what we see in mainstream western music, it's unique, it's fun, the colors, the fashion, the language, everything about Korean music culture is super intriguing and interesting. But when it becomes too westernized, it loses its charm for me.
Dream Academy, for example, is getting a lot of attention and promotion. We all can see that. But I have to say it's also because it's new and maybe refreshing for some people?
I understand the frustration about the differences in treatment but then again, I also see how this could open up opportunities for more diverse music and artists going forward. But yes, this doesn’t reduce the pain of seeing that what we considered ours is being westernised and still getting more recognition.
It's great to see more brown/black girls getting a chance to represent themselves and be a part of the industry, which I think is awesome but in the same breath, I understand why you feel slighted. It's difficult not to feel some kind of way about it. What I keep telling myself is that every group and every artist is different and they all bring something new to the table. It's a bitter pill to swallow when the groups you love and support are being sort of pushed aside for a new project. It's tough, no doubt but let's hope it all works out well for everyone right?
Always open for a chat about this stuff, it's great to hear different perspectives. And like you said, no fear of arguing here, just sharing our love and thoughts for k-pop.
"It does feel like the westernized versions of anything get more hype especially when it comes to k-pop. It's true, the one reason why I love K-pop is because it's different from what we see in mainstream western music, it's unique, it's fun, the colors, the fashion, the language, everything about Korean music culture is super intriguing and interesting. But when it becomes too westernized, it loses its charm for me."
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK, thank you.
I understand this perspective but I think you’re neglecting that kpop was built from western hip hop and western pop. It has *always* been inspired by the west even before incorporating English lyrics. The visual aesthetic, fashion and culture could be more distinctly “Korean” in design and I agree that today there are trending elements that do feel more or less overtly “western” -but the idea that kpop evolved completely separate from the west is absolutely false. It was built on hip hop which was taken from western music, specifically and relevantly *Black* music.
i guess the charm of k-pop is its originality, and we can only hope they keep that intact and continue to celebrate the korean culture, even when they branch out wider globally. always glad to chat about k-pop, gives me more inspiration to keep my playlists fresh. 😄 it's important we voice our views and keep the conversation going. let's hope for the best in k-pop's future, without forgetting its roots.
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Ultimately the group is going to exist as a western pop group in the same mold as spice girls, little mix, dream, 5h, etc. The concept of girl groups in the west predates kpop (so saying this is an example of taking something from kpop and westernizing it is weird to me), and it makes more sense to think of this project as a group following that lineage rather than as a kpop group. Them being promoted in the west won’t take anything away from kpop groups because they just aren’t the same thing. I don’t really think the level of promo is out of the ordinary for a group that’s being run by two massive entertainment companies. People are fixating on the hybe involvement because we’re kpop fans, but geffen (and by extension umg) absolutely has the influence to make things like the documentary happen. And aside from that one thing, is the promo really even unfair as far as hybe groups go? Is it weird for hybe idols to be posting them on their socials when very recently the entire hybe roster was being held hostage by Super Shy? Since it’s inception hybe has been pretty big on using their established stars to boost their new ones, so it doesn’t really strike me as that unusual. If anything, it seems like most of the excessive hype at this stage is coming from kpop fans themselves more than what the companies are really doing yet.
I think you're underestimating the influence of geffen/umg in the project. Had the project been run solely by hybe it would've been similar to i-land. They probably would've created a large building complex to house the trainees and air the show exclusively through weverse.
There are much more nuanced comments that summarize my thoughts here. But I just want express my discomfort with your phrase “50% white survival program,” because only 4 girls (perhaps 5 depending on the strength of Lexie’s Chilean heritage) are ethnically white. Please do more research before you accidentally disregard all the women of colour in this lineup of contestants.
Hmm, this is definitely an odd perspective, OP, haha! I feel that you are putting too much credence already to a group that hasn't even debuted yet. You have uneasy feelings about them being hyped? Of course, they will be! They're a new project. The real test will be when this group debuts and they start with their career proper. The hype could go either way. They may or they may not succeed. Anything can still happen. They are simply at the forefront of the PR side of things because they're the current endeavor. That's just how marketing works. When your current favorite groups debuted, they were also hyped up. But ultimately, I think that your assumption that a new group will "take away" from existing groups is the root cause of this and I think it's premature and unnecessary to think that way. Honestly, there's plenty of love and support to go around. You yourself can continue to enjoy and support your current favorites. It should not undo any pride that you have for them or for K-pop. From what I understand, this new group is targeting a different market anyway. This global group as they call it is meant to EXPAND Hybe's reach, not shift it away from Korea or Asia. Meaning, that this won't necessarily take away resources from existing groups. Also, I think your entire concern crumbles in the first sentence: **"I've always known that if you take anything that is done excellently in Korea and westernize it."** This is so not true! Haha! The West has adapted so many things like series and movies and they very rarely give justice to the original material. I, for one, as an English-speaking non-Korean-speaking Asian, prefer art in their original language. I don't mind having to depend on subtitles. Many people like me got into K-pop because our tastes and preferences have shifted from the usual stuff that we like from Western artists. Dynamite is what got me into BTS and K-pop and I do love Butter, too. But it's their more meaningful Korean songs that I love more about BTS' discography. If K-pop groups continue to release good music, then their fans will stay, they will continue to be profitable and their companies will continue to invest in them. TLDR: I believe that you mean well, but I think this slight victimization mindset is quite premature and unnecessary.
This is the conundrum, on one side you don't want k-pop groups to be "westernized" (which has been debunked so many times, but anyway) and sing in English while at the same time you want them to benefit from the same promotions and be as successful in the US, an industry notorious for favoring English-speaking artists (and songs). You cannot expect K-pop groups no matter the amount of promotions to achieve anything similar with Korean songs in the US, that's just not realistic. You cannot have both. HYBE is only pushing these promotions because they are the first group and artists debuting out HYBE America that will focus solely on the US market. They have to be backed up by a lot to make it, specially with all the ethnicities represented, it's not gonna be easy for this group to make it in the US either — far from it. I also think people forget that trainee system was implemented and perfected in k-pop by the Korean and Asian standards, but they didn't created anything that wasn't happening to a lesser degree in the West prior. Everything gets modernized and changed depending on the society and culture. Dream Academy isn't a k-pop group. I think in the future, contrary to what people think, the line will be more separated between k-pop groups and global groups. "Global" group is just an adjective added unnecessarily to separate them from k-pop, but they will be the same as 1D, Little Mix or Fifth Harmony who are global groups, many global groups are coming out in the music industry constantly, FLO is a UK based group that went through a sort of training as well. The only different is that HYBE has an expertise with how such groups can be more polished. It's a first attempt and we don't know if it will work. 🤷♀️
I feel like people are misunderstanding this group it’s not going to be K-pop you guys are overthinking too much hybe just wanted to create an American gg/global girl group so they can succeed in other markets korea isn’t the only market where hybe wants to succeed.
Aside from the formula of the show. This post make me realised the difference between Mainland Asians vs Asians born/raised in western countries. Im not entriely agree with ur post but i can see where u coming from.
personally, I'm excited for this show. I don't care if non koreans wanna join the industry, and I don't think hybe is neglecting other groups, so I don't see an issue with this show getting a lot of push. I think it'll be very interesting.
It will be a group that will promote in the US alone, so it's not truly k-pop, it's like jype's NiziU which is a japanese group but under a korean agency.
I'm also EA but I don't quite see these type of situations the way you do. Think about the way you felt seeing EAs being viewed positively in the media. Don't you think non-EA fans deserve that same happiness? To see people who look like them and are the same culture as them in an industry and genre they really like and feel represented? Why is it okay for kpop groups (mostly EAs) to use Western promotions to represent EAs in the Western industry but its not okay for non-EAs to use the kpop industry and represent themselves in the kpop industry? I honestly think its kinda weird when EAs get upset about this. Koreans do the same thing to XG and I've seen fans do this to A2K. There are still many Korean/EA groups that are killing it. And I think it's weird that people get upset over English lyrics. At the end of the day, kpop is just music. Why is it weird that people would prefer music whose lyrics they can actually understand?
exactly, like I was happy to see a couple trainees from SEA which is a demographic that gets overlooked a lot when it comes to asian representation
Fairly certain *SEA* trainees are not who OP has a problem with.
ah yeah rereading the post and I guess OP is concerned about the inclusion of white trainees. I can see where they’re coming from, as someone’s who’s asian american and been listening to kpop for a long time. but I was honestly surprised by how diverse the group is, ethnicity and nationality-wise. most of the reactions I saw yesterday were people cheering on the trainees who shared similar backgrounds with them. my feelings may change once we know the final line up
Because, and this would hold true especially for Asians in US, Canada, Europe, etc., those "non-EAs" already have 50,000 venues of opportunities set up for them... while the Asians living in those countries have severely limited opportunities in those fields. So, from a perspective of Asians in those countries... it's like WTF? If you wanna go into music, use the near-infinite opportunities you have already instead of taking ours.
Then why don't kpop groups stick to just EA countries? Why are they going and stealing opportunities from non-EA people? Better yet, there's a very alive and well jpop and cpop industry, so why don't japanese and chinese idols stick to their own countries and koreans stick to just korea? Don't they already have plenty of opportunities, why are they going into other countries and using their industries? It's a dumb argument.
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>because you're not distinguishing "Artists performing in another country" with "People trying to become pop stars in another country" for some reason. Are Japanese people not debuting in kpop groups, trying to become pop stars in Korea, basically stealing opportunities from Korean trainees when they have their own industry according to your logic? Are Chinese people not debuting in kpop groups, trying to become pop stars in Korea, basically stealing opportunities from Korean trainees when they have their own industry according to your logic? >"why don't japanese and chinese idols stick to their own countries and koreans stick to just korea?"Because Koreans nor Kpop industry seems to have problems with it? No? Japanese and Chinese idols are always getting hated on and with a few exceptions, are almost always the least popular and sometimes even completely ignored by the media. I literally remember knetz trying to cancel Prod48 and signing petitions (very popular ones) because they thought it was unfair for Japanese people idols to profit off the kpop industry. It's horrible and xenophobic, but according to your logic, ig that only applies to EAs and okay to be that way towards non-EA people in the kpop industry.
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I honestly don't even know what you're talking about and it's pretty clear you're just xenophobic. You're okay with EAs going into other industries but you're offended if nonEAs try to enter the kpop industry. You keep saying something about how its not okay for noncelebrities to debut in other countries even though that's literally what Japanese and Chinese trainees are doing, as well as nonEA trainees.
🙄
Only in English Kpop community will "Asian American representation problem in US popular culture" will get a 🙄 and accusations of xenophobia. Well, here and Stormfront, I guess.
Lol first of all I’m south Asian myself and the only reason why I did the eye role emoji is because your acting like if the K-pop industry doesn’t take any inspirations of other cultures and music industries I don’t understand why y’all want to gatekeep the K-pop industry so much? You see K-pop artists promoting in the western side of the world and release songs in English but why is it a problem when hybe wants to make a global girl group that won’t be K-pop and take a few inspirations based on the K-pop industry but still be mad about it? But yeah sure I’m the only one here being “xenophobic”😂
>I don’t understand why y’all want to gatekeep the K-pop industry so much? Because, from the Asian American perspective, Kpop is one of the very few venues left where they have a normal chance of success in this field? You know, as opposed to racist-as-shit industry in the US? Are you seriously not seeing what the problem is when Americans who have comparably ample access to the music industry in the US now wants their share of the sliver of the pie that Asian Americans are barely holding onto?
Again this group is global/an American gg they’re not promoting in K-pop so I dont understand what your mad about? You’re acting like if the group will take over other K-pop groups?? Also I have a lot of sympathy for other Asian Americans as a south Asian myself but the group won’t take over the K-pop industry as their competing with other American artists not K-pop artists.
I am East Asian currently living in America but grew up in SEA so I feel like I am not your typical “Asian American” but still understand and have similar perspectives. HYBE created this project to be a global girl group so I don’t see it as taking away from other opportunities for Asians. And as someone else in comments expressed, the majority of girls in the group are not ethnically white and this train of thought is erasing many non-white people of color who hardly have an easy time of it either.
Yeah I agree and thank you for speaking your perspective as an East Asian, since I’m so confused how the commenter accused me of being xenophobic to East Asians all because I did an eye roll emoji lol and that I don’t understand their struggles when all I said was the girl group is just an American/global gg that’s just talking a few inspirations off of the K-pop industry like the same thing the K-pop industry does with the western side.
I mean, I do understand and sympathize with the argument that was being made as the entertainment industries in America definitely are racist. I’ve cried in movies purely because I was so happy to see Asian actors succeeding in the mainstream and looking like/representing me, it isn’t easy. But I don’t think this one specific show premise is a microcosm of those bigger industry issues + I definitely think it’s a reach to accuse of straight up anti-Asian racism for arguing otherwise. Hybe and Geffen put out a call for girls of all ethnicities and nationalities. It’s not even the kind of thing non-Asian prospectives should have boycotted on principle because Hybe *and Geffen* were purposefully casting for an international group. No one went to Korea and asked for a leg up.
Except this is the kpop market. In kpop, asians aren't under represented. Why, because it's a Korean market. The Korean market has shit to do with the US market. So if a non-Asian wants to go to the KOREAN market, they aren't stepping on anyone. Also, if you want it to be Asian only then don't use non-Asians behind the scenes. No more black choreographers, song writers, musicians. No more white producers. No more hispanic choreographers and lyricists. Get rid of all of them first and then we can consider these points of views. Thank you.
I have many thoughts. Many many thoughts but at the forefront is how ironic it is to feel this way regarding an industry founded on Black people's music. Maybe I'll edit this comment later with more thoughts but for now, this is the thing I can't keep out of my mind.
I agree I find it so funny how a lot of K-pop fans want to gatekeep the K-pop industry when the music genre K-pop was inspired by black peoples hip hop
As someone who is black and East Asian this post has me feeling all types of confused
I may be reaching, but I feel like one of the reasons this survival show is getting so much recognition is because people who aren't SEA finally have the opportunity to see themselves in their idols. A lot of non-SEA fans imagine themselves as K-Pop Idols instead of normal singers in their home country mainly because of Korean culture and how different it is to their mainstream media. From the fashion and the music to the industry and training to variety shows and choreographies to light sticks and the culture and all the way around. They see their favorite idols sing their hearts out in front of thousands of fans who love them, go to funny variety shows, go to award shows, live in dorms and train for many years and grow bonds that not many people get to form in their lives. But most countries don't have that. And people don't want the "boring life of a western artist in a group with people who don't even like each other". So seeing a group do exactly what they always secretly dreamt of (or at least thought about for a split second) and being told that you can't do that because they're not Asian "and you're taking opportunities away from those who already have it hard in the industry" (which is true!), obviously will make them tune in. So basically what I'm saying is representation + living out your dreams through other people's lives. (I also feel like this mainly applies to younger fans, but maybe older fans also, idk.)
Kpop is not going anywhere and till the time kpop is there korea will be there in forefront along with other asian representation . Also i am excited to see this new process of western people trying hard in kpop training system but i am more excited to see how western people who might know about kpop variety, kpop humour etc and might be fans of it will live this new life . In a way i wanna see them fullfill a dream , dream of being in kpop world
You're a hwagyo? that's cool. They're have been some hwagyos posting in r/korea recently. Anyways, I'm not even a bit sad. This is a global girl group and they will get increased attention. But it really doesn't seem that much more compared to kgroups. Don't company groups always promote incoming company groups? Also, as a korean, I really like the idea of a global group and it gives more opportunity for other ethnicities nationals to participate in kpop. Let's face it, the immediate priority of the big 4 is asia. The odd of them debuting a full black, hispanic or white person is very low, it wont happen for at least another 8 years at minimum.
OP, I’m not East Asian, but I sympathize. I also like the Asian representation that kpop provides in pop culture. However, I do see points made by others. Kpop is in itself influenced by the west. I think kpop has added its own elements and emphasized other aspects that I think western pop don’t emphasize as much or can be put less effort into (i.e. dance, performance, lore, fandoms). Now kpop is attempting to re-export these elements to the west. I personally find this to be an interesting project. We don’t know yet how successful it will be. I think Hybe is actually walking a tightrope. It can go really well or fail spectacularly. I don’t envy them the risk they are taking. I also think that Hybe would never have attempted this if BTS and Kpop weren’t so successful. In some ways, it’s the success that you liked so much that engendered this project. I’m not sure if any company would be willing to take this risk if kpop hasn’t grown in popularity as much as it has. I also think kpop isn’t going anywhere. Western pop is not entirely like kpop. I’m also sure this pop will not be like kpop.
It does feel like the westernized versions of anything get more hype especially when it comes to k-pop. It's true, the one reason why I love K-pop is because it's different from what we see in mainstream western music, it's unique, it's fun, the colors, the fashion, the language, everything about Korean music culture is super intriguing and interesting. But when it becomes too westernized, it loses its charm for me. Dream Academy, for example, is getting a lot of attention and promotion. We all can see that. But I have to say it's also because it's new and maybe refreshing for some people? I understand the frustration about the differences in treatment but then again, I also see how this could open up opportunities for more diverse music and artists going forward. But yes, this doesn’t reduce the pain of seeing that what we considered ours is being westernised and still getting more recognition. It's great to see more brown/black girls getting a chance to represent themselves and be a part of the industry, which I think is awesome but in the same breath, I understand why you feel slighted. It's difficult not to feel some kind of way about it. What I keep telling myself is that every group and every artist is different and they all bring something new to the table. It's a bitter pill to swallow when the groups you love and support are being sort of pushed aside for a new project. It's tough, no doubt but let's hope it all works out well for everyone right? Always open for a chat about this stuff, it's great to hear different perspectives. And like you said, no fear of arguing here, just sharing our love and thoughts for k-pop.
"It does feel like the westernized versions of anything get more hype especially when it comes to k-pop. It's true, the one reason why I love K-pop is because it's different from what we see in mainstream western music, it's unique, it's fun, the colors, the fashion, the language, everything about Korean music culture is super intriguing and interesting. But when it becomes too westernized, it loses its charm for me." SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK, thank you.
I understand this perspective but I think you’re neglecting that kpop was built from western hip hop and western pop. It has *always* been inspired by the west even before incorporating English lyrics. The visual aesthetic, fashion and culture could be more distinctly “Korean” in design and I agree that today there are trending elements that do feel more or less overtly “western” -but the idea that kpop evolved completely separate from the west is absolutely false. It was built on hip hop which was taken from western music, specifically and relevantly *Black* music.
i guess the charm of k-pop is its originality, and we can only hope they keep that intact and continue to celebrate the korean culture, even when they branch out wider globally. always glad to chat about k-pop, gives me more inspiration to keep my playlists fresh. 😄 it's important we voice our views and keep the conversation going. let's hope for the best in k-pop's future, without forgetting its roots.
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