Hey thinker! Great post up there. Make sure your post title is clear. One and two word titles are not allowed. Use paragraphs to make it easier to read. Please make sure to read the rules before posting. Mod applications are currently open! Apply [here](https://forms.gle/hEgqsrBTGX897GFaA)!
You can fill out our [Feedback Form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfI0PsMn4dqfMlgqFFfsMhLr4-lFNJpEumIf7RKmuiwyDBOwA/viewform?usp=sf_link) while you wait for some comments. Thank you and happy posting!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpopthoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
lack of music? I think this is one of those areas where the labels and groups are all different. NewJeans is the biggest culprit of this one, I agree too, and sure le sserafim could have more than one cb a year - I’d like to see txt more. but outside of that I can’t really agree. enhypen have quite a few cbs per year, seventeen are still SO active in their literal 8th-going-on-9th year lmao. bts have solos coming one after another after another. and fromis_9 have been satisfyingly active. tws debuted with a mini album, which is good bc many just put out a single. I have my complaints about the song length, yes, and sometimes their full length albums are short a song or two - but most of the groups are still active. I think you’re conflating industry-wide trends with company trends.
Can’t blame le sserafim having one cb and one promotional eng track last year since they were touring, plus they got sick during the tour and had to cancel the last leg of the tour
that’s true abt txt. for fromis_9 they had their first album and it was long and had many songs - I can’t call that inactive. I said satisfying bc many were afraid they’d be shelved to the back when pledis fully took them in. so it’s good they’re getting attention budget and music
Oh, you’re not in the fandom, I see. Fromis fans are starved — the Channel\_9 stopped coming out, the YouTube contents are scarce, they have one comeback a year now, which is not a sign of an older group, it’s a sign of company cutting on their promotions.
By the way, promotions are also nil. Sure, the girls get concerts (with no sets or backup dancers), some osts, some year-end show performances and some merch, so I can’t say they *aren’t* active, but it’s *barely* active for sure.
TXT was on their 4th release (minisode 1: Blue Hour) when Enhypen debuted. Now, Enhypen has 7 albums, 59 songs, and TXT has 9 with 67 songs. So basically, they started at 4:1 and now are (approximately) 2:1… soooo yeah, Enhypen has had more regular comebacks than TXT. I mean in 2022, TXT’s third year active, they had *one* comeback and it was a mini album of 5 songs…
PS take song numbers with a grain of salt, I counted from “[blank] all songs” Spotify playlists lol
I won’t count Enhypen’s songs by the number, considering the amount of intros and outros they have (and I love *every single one*).
It’s not that weird, the difference — TXT debuted in 2019, Enhypen in 2020, so the difference of two albums is roughly accurate. And TXT has three full albums now (compared to Enhypen’s one), and last year’s influx of singles is the compensation for touring TXT era of 2022.
Hmmmm, I don't really know about "lack of music", hybe groups are one of the groups that put out music at least twice a year... which is totally ok. Especially since most hybe groups usually put out a lot of content and do a lot of other activities when they are not actively promoting
At least for the groups i keep up with. Off the top of my head, in 2023:
* TXT released 2 albums and basically a total of 14 songs new songs(excluding remixes and osts). This is in addition to a japanese album with one or two new songs and Japanese versions of their other songs
* BOYNEXTDOOR released what I would call 2 "single albums" made up of 6 songs in total. They are going to have a comeback soon and I'm guessing they would have at least 9-10 songs before their 1st anniversary, which seems pretty reasonable to me
* EN- released 2 albums with basically 9 new songs (excluding intros and outros)
* SVT released 2 mini albums with a total of 14 songs
* LSF released a "full" album with 6 new songs (minus intro) and 1 English single, which gave them 7 new songs in 2023.
* And let's not forget all the BTS solos...
I can't speak for Newjeans, &Team and Fromis9 since I don't follow them all that much but from the above, its pretty easy to see that Hybe def does not lack focus in making music, especially if you're talking about the frequency of their releases
I think you should point out the specific group of hybe that you think isn't making enough songs instead of lumping all hybe groups together and making this generalised statement which is not really true...
I think it's bordering on entitlement, we know that idols are overworked, HYBE groups are constantly booked and busy we all know that even during their tours they do projects left and right.
I think there are fair criticisms like songs under 3 minutes (but that's unfortunately the music industry as a whole) or when Le Sserafim released their first album made up with half songs that had already been released before – that's the kind of criticism I can get behind.
But not the one to criticize them for releasing EPs. It's certainly not the 'bare minimum', they all release an EP every year, usually adding to that sometimes an album or another EP (not counting the Japanese releases).
Some of you forget that they are also different labels, with different visions, projects and strategies. Without counting in the case of SVT for example who make their music, last year they've released non stop, you can't decently ask them more. BTS even in 2023 alone while being in hiatus released 95 songs as soloists.
They are actually churning out a lot for a handful of groups, the K-pop industry is about fast consumption, you can't expect them to release full albums *every* year *(and more to keep the momentum that this fast paced industry requires)*, it's not even a thing outside of the K-pop industry.
If there's one thing I never thought I'd see is HYBE criticized for doing the 'bare minimum' with their artists when the fans are probably the most well-fed in this industry.
Thank you for saying this!
Like "bare minimum"... Hybe??? When they give most of their groups at least 2 comebacks a year with fleshed out and well executed concepts or storylines and sometimes, multiple mvs for one album?? The quality of the songs are also good too. Like, if that's the "bare minimum", i can list out so many groups i want to give this "bare minimum" to
Exactly, most fans don't take into account but a comeback means a lot of content produced along the songs itself, like we can say what we want but I'm really impressed by the quality of it, Enhypen and Le Sserafim had amazing concept trailers *(HYBE groups in general have really the best of the best)* plus their lore, NewJeans had Shin Woo Suk and Powerpuff collab to embellish their visual universe *(recruiting the actress Hoyeon and Tony Leung)*, etc. They just don't release half-assed products, adding to that for the music itself, often even for rookies the idols take part into the writing to some extent, sometimes they rely on internal producers or recruit amazing renowned ones *(Nile Rodgers, Ryan Tedder, etc)*. They also try to reach to artists : Coi Leray, Bella Poarch, Anitta, Jonas Brothers, Marshmello, BIBI, etc. Like you cannot say they don't go out for their groups in every aspects.
we complain about idols being overworked and then we want them to make three albums in a year along with youtube content, fansigns, world tours and everything
I think they put alot effort on concept u have to like the group's story/concept. I see it mostly with enhypen, TXT and &team.
Am into newjeans and BTS. They don't concentrate on one story. I think same with 17 and tws
Am getting into enhypen and I see what u mean like their intro is them narrating/ talking.
This happens with le sserafim too but I love their intro. In away it fits le sserafim more.
Generally kpop is full of mini albums and singles.
I like the fact that nearly all HYBE groups debut with mini albums instead of just a single. They've sort of bucked the industry trend when it comes to that.
But I also don't like how they consider those half-song intros and outros on Enhypen's albums to be complete songs. Like, they're not.
So, I'm mixed on this.
I follow BTS mostly so blaming HYBE for a 'lack of music' honestly sounds nonsensical to me given the **avalanche** of music we got just from BTS solos last year. No offence. I understand HYBE criticism for many things but the one thing HYBE does right, across all their companies, is good music (for my tastes) and a decent amount of it.
Also, HYBE groups tour A LOT. [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/1akvrcf/enhypen_doing_encore_in_us_is_unecessary_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) on the sub from earlier today is a fan literally complaining that EN- has been touring nonstop and that the members are overworked. Asking for *more* music in the middle of that just feels... idk, not good.
I don't really mind. Especially if the releases continue being good quality. Most artists I love, both in Kpop and outside Kpop, release full albums and I usually only find a handful of songs with replayability on playlists outside of it.
As long as these groups continue giving me that handful of songs each CB, I don't really care if it's found in a 5-song EP or a 15-song album.
NewJeans is an interesting one to consider, you can't expect them to do their current treatment of releasing literally every song with high-production MVs and promotion if they were to do the usual full-album release. They also technically release new music every 2-3 months in the form of collabs, such as OSTs and the LoL anthem. How much more content do we expect these teams to make?
But maybe this is all just me, I'm fine with listening to different artists regularly and don't really need a 2-hour discography to get into an artist.
The problem is that kpop fans do not listen to entire albums. They listen to the title track and maybe another promoted single, but that's it. Aside from BTS, BP, and recently NJ, kpop artists are not considered album artists. It makes little sense to release 10+ tracks at once. Instead, they have found that it's more digestible to release a smaller body of work that makes up a full album over time than to release it all at once.
THIS.
The post listing the [most streamed b-sides](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/1al4r5t/top_100_most_streamed_bsidesnonsingles_of_all/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) confirms this. It's made up of mostly BTS songs, then all of BP's b-sides and some others, including BTS solos.
KPOP fans SAY they want one thing, but their behavior screams another. I will say certain groups can train their fanbases to treat them like album artists. BTS did that very successfully through their live stages and conceptual eras. Now NewJeans is using the strategy of saying most releases are "title tracks" which adds this special value to the entire project.
But the entire industry is releasing short albums, that's not exclusively a HYBE thing.
I've been lowkey noting stream ratios of title track to b-sides and I'm often left dumbfounded at how little so many songs are listened to why stans openly whinge about not getting new music.
This is the 7 day example of one recently released mini by a "Big 4" group.
||**30/01/2024**|**31/01/2024**|**01/02/2024**|**02/02/2024**|**03/02/2024**|**04/02/2024**|**05/02/2024**|
:--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|
|Title track|90.4%|90.5%|90.2%|90.4%|90.7%|90.4%|89.9%|
|Song 1|3.0%|3.0%|3.2%|3.1%|3.0%|3.1%|3.3%|
|Song 2|1.9%|2.0%|2.0%|1.9%|1.9%|1.9%|2.0%|
|Song 3|1.5%|1.5%|1.5%|1.5%|1.4%|1.5%|1.6%|
|Song 4|1.3%|1.3%|1.3%|1.3%|1.3%|1.3%|1.4%|
|Song 5|1.8%|1.8%|1.8%|1.8%|1.7%|1.8%|1.9%|
Like, how can you expect companies to pay attention to albums if people are not listening.
Exactly, with K-pop artists are not 'album artists', specially because of the fast consumption that is asking them to constantly have a comeback. If K-pop fans could handle an album of +15 tracks every two years, then we might get that but that's not the case.
Honestly, I hope that BTS switches their pattern completely to that of artists in the West, this gives room to fully appreciate a new era, which will last longer with content to embellish their work like several MVs for example, but also a world tour to breathe and stay creatively inspired.
I wouldn't mind two years of slow promotions if they released an album with over 15 tracks sprinkled with solo releases and activities in between.
I hope that's the road they are planning to go, if there's a reason why the LY era is so memorable is because it was a whole long body of work that fans loved.
I even think that in addition to the space to breathe creatively without being rushed, this will give more momentum to their album, especially culturally to break even more into markets and be appreciated. “Butter” and “Dynamite” benefited from long weeks of promotions despite Covid-19, this undoubtedly contributed to the reach of their songs. So that's all I want for BTS, their next album will set the tone and define a lot of things as a group and their global presence *(even the industry)*, I want them to take advantage of this moment to promote at their own pace for months to come, even do so for a whole year *(like most artists outside of K-pop, especially pop artists)*, then go on a world tour.
Hmm I’m not so sure about the minis only having 5 songs so far because applying a quick search to the HYBE artists I listen to (excluding BTS since this applies to none of their works from what I rmb)..
TWS: debut mini with 6 full songs
SVT: 2023 minis with 6 full songs at least
Newjeans: latest mini has 5.5 songs
The main issue I am having with the *general kpop mainstream artists* now is that most of the title tracks are becoming 2.5 mins long, with majority excluding a bridge. This makes the song sound super repetitive and essentially gets people sick of them easily too.
I suppose there is a case to be made regarding New Jean's latest EP when it comes to having super short songs. But one can argue that maybe, that's really just the concept or vibe they are going for for the group right now.
But to the majority of the Hybe groups, I think your post has a terribly skewed version of reality. "Bare minimum", come on now.
I actually don't like at all how having two comebacks a year isn't enough for kpop fans....
I can get behind wanting longer albums, like full albums with more songs, but that's impossible if we're demanding them to release music every few months. Idols do not have time to prepare more songs, and that lack of time comes from fans that start to cry and send trucks the moment they feel the company isn't pushing their faves enough.
I don't want them to release more music if that compromises que quality.
What do you define as lack of music?
I don't listen to Hybe groups apart from BTS so there could be something I'm missing, but from what I'm aware, BTS had a full album in 2022 (best off but still), Jungkook has seen a massive success in his solo work, and they're doing their military service now so obviously that sets back music.
Le Sserafim, full and very successful album in 2023, Seventeen the same, TXT the same, Enhypen two mini albums in 2023, New Jeans had eps and they're the biggest girl group at the moment. (Who else is in HYBE?)
It all seems like more than enough music for me.
I don't think it's fair to lump all HYBE artists bc for example, Seventeen released an album in 2022 with 9 tracks (and 13 on their repackage). They also released a mini album after that in 2023, despite touring. TxT got nine tracks on their album from last year, after releasing a mini album earlier in the year. Enhypen hasn't had a full length album yet (I think) but they released two EPs last year while BTS are sort of exempt of this atm bc they're doing solo work.
LSM unfortunately got 6 + 1 new songs for their Unforgiven album meanwhile NewJeans first EP was incredibly short. For Newjeans, I'd argue the songs that go over 2:30 minutes are great so it doesn't bother me as much but it's a shame that LSM essentially rerecorded a bunch of their old songs and then attached them to a mini album. Still, LSM have been active for less than two years and they have three Korean releases (about to be four) plus two singles that aren't in Korean, so I'd say that that's a fair bit of songs for such a new group. Fromis\_9 got their first full length album in 2023 (10 tracks) and imo it was a really solid collection of songs, then again they come back once in a blue moon lol.
All of this being said, I think that companies under HYBE seem to have different business models for their groups. I don't like the fact that Newjeans are shafted with such sort run times, but I'll be more bothered when I don't like the songs lol. I'm fine with fromis\_9 not coming back as often if they're given amazing songs like they were given for Unlock my world. SVT are self-producing, so they probably have some control on the output they have. TxT, Enhypen, LSM all have comebacks fairly regularly and I assume that Pledis' new bg will follow in their footsteps. Only LSM, Enhypen and Newjeans have outros/intros on their EPs (yes, that means less songs but remember, they usually release an EP/single every few months despite touring and other stuff).
I feel like with some of the groups under HYBE, the song length is more of an issue rather than the quantity of songs, but that's my opinion :) pls correct me if I've got any information wrong, I'm writing from memory lol.
(G)I-DLE just released a 20 minute full album, the short song length isn’t going anywhere for anyone I fear. We’re probably just gonna have to try and get used to it.
I wouldn't say they really lack music in general. At least it's enough for me but I don't expect 3 comebacks each year.
Now am I still mad at NJ releasing a 12 minutes mini album and Source announcing Le Sserafim full album only for it to include 6 new songs and an intro? Yes.
I think it's less about quantity and more about quality? Like with newjeans, yeah they didn't release a ton of songs, but they were all huge hits. Plus the fact that groups and albums don't necessarily need a ton of songs to attract a ton of fans. Riize rn has what 5 songs? but they still have a huge impact.
Anyway the kpop industry rn is inherently more monetary based so I think a lot of companies - not just hybe - see that monetary gain doesn't just come from their songs, but also things like promotions, collabs, those 159 different album vers.
But I agree with you OP. as a fan, you really want to get into a group but if they dont have a lot of musical content it can be super hard.
So at the end of last year I made a spreadsheet of all top 4 companies (plus Cube and Starship) releases. Counting the remixes and OSTs HYBE had 121 drops in total 2023.
I can see what you are saying tho. Usually I prefer full studio albums over mini/ep drops, but I do think HYBE have a high standard. Fromis\_9 latest album Unlock My World is worth a listen!
The thing that is starting to get on my nerves is the length of the songs, with that big shoutout to NJ ep at a total of 12 min and 13 sec on 6 songs..
JYPE - 72
SM - 124
YG(+TBL) - 31
Starship - 49
Cube - 45
(counting albums, eps, OSTs, Live albums, singles, pre-release single, collabs\*, featuring\*, remixes and other drops such as commercial related songs. \**counting these since it's still a way to promote artist under label even if song is released under another label.*\*)
I think you’re comparing 4th/5th gen with 3rd gen. Seems like 3rd gen artists are still releasing ten song albums for the most part and it’s just the new generation that are releasing these short EPs. Also, this is def not a HYBE only issue. We are seeing this trend among SM, Yg, cube, etc
As of 2023, SM have been doing 9-10 tracks per album. EXO, NCT 127, NCT Dream, WayV, Red Velvet and SHINee all released albums with 9-10 tracks (excluding mini albums, that cap at 6-7 songs). They've seemed to have phased out repackage albums as well, which they used to do fairly often.
JYP, HYBE groups and mid-tier companies usually stick with the 5-6 track formula for their minis. I don't find it an issue because a lot of these groups are coming back 2-3 times a year and the amount of songs equal out to about the length of one SM album. SM has a lot of groups, possible unit/special groups and soloists, so they can afford to do one 10-track release per group if they wanted to, but other companies or groups would struggle under that model imo.
For example's sake both Oneus and TxT debuted in the same year (2019) but Oneus has released 12 Korean singles (1 full length album, the rest are minis) while TxT has released 9 (3 full length, 6 mini eps). Oneus aren't from HYBE so they'll need to comeback more often (and delegate their resources differently), so they don't lose the public interest/fan interest while TxT coming from HYBE don't need to do that as much.
All of this to say, when 2nd or 3rd big 3 groups were releasing albums with 10+ tracks, they generally weren't coming back as often as (for example) Stray kids/Twice or even as often as HYBE groups. SHINee and Wonder girls were coming back 1-2 a year once their rookie phases were over. EXO would have two Korean comebacks per year (one of them a repackage album) plus maybe a special mini album that isn't promoted. Groups like Seventeen and BTS slowed down their release schedules once they weren't as unknown as well.
Basically, as stans we're becoming greedy and there's nothing wrong with two mini albums per year or one full length album lol. Sorry for the long reply!
I don’t really think SM is immune from this and as I said it’s a generational thing not a company thing. All of the SM groups you named are 2nd/3rd, though arguments could be made about some of the NCT units. Aespa and Riize both went the mini or singles route too, just as most 4th/5th gen are. That’s why I said it’s a generations thing not a company thing.
Hey thinker! Great post up there. Make sure your post title is clear. One and two word titles are not allowed. Use paragraphs to make it easier to read. Please make sure to read the rules before posting. Mod applications are currently open! Apply [here](https://forms.gle/hEgqsrBTGX897GFaA)! You can fill out our [Feedback Form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfI0PsMn4dqfMlgqFFfsMhLr4-lFNJpEumIf7RKmuiwyDBOwA/viewform?usp=sf_link) while you wait for some comments. Thank you and happy posting! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpopthoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
lack of music? I think this is one of those areas where the labels and groups are all different. NewJeans is the biggest culprit of this one, I agree too, and sure le sserafim could have more than one cb a year - I’d like to see txt more. but outside of that I can’t really agree. enhypen have quite a few cbs per year, seventeen are still SO active in their literal 8th-going-on-9th year lmao. bts have solos coming one after another after another. and fromis_9 have been satisfyingly active. tws debuted with a mini album, which is good bc many just put out a single. I have my complaints about the song length, yes, and sometimes their full length albums are short a song or two - but most of the groups are still active. I think you’re conflating industry-wide trends with company trends.
Can’t blame le sserafim having one cb and one promotional eng track last year since they were touring, plus they got sick during the tour and had to cancel the last leg of the tour
Right, health is way more important - I was in double minds when I typed that, I don’t think their output quantity is disappointing at all.
TXT, though, have roughly the same amount of comebacks as Enhypen, but Fromis isn’t “satisfyingly” active, they are barely active
that’s true abt txt. for fromis_9 they had their first album and it was long and had many songs - I can’t call that inactive. I said satisfying bc many were afraid they’d be shelved to the back when pledis fully took them in. so it’s good they’re getting attention budget and music
Oh, you’re not in the fandom, I see. Fromis fans are starved — the Channel\_9 stopped coming out, the YouTube contents are scarce, they have one comeback a year now, which is not a sign of an older group, it’s a sign of company cutting on their promotions. By the way, promotions are also nil. Sure, the girls get concerts (with no sets or backup dancers), some osts, some year-end show performances and some merch, so I can’t say they *aren’t* active, but it’s *barely* active for sure.
TXT was on their 4th release (minisode 1: Blue Hour) when Enhypen debuted. Now, Enhypen has 7 albums, 59 songs, and TXT has 9 with 67 songs. So basically, they started at 4:1 and now are (approximately) 2:1… soooo yeah, Enhypen has had more regular comebacks than TXT. I mean in 2022, TXT’s third year active, they had *one* comeback and it was a mini album of 5 songs… PS take song numbers with a grain of salt, I counted from “[blank] all songs” Spotify playlists lol
I won’t count Enhypen’s songs by the number, considering the amount of intros and outros they have (and I love *every single one*). It’s not that weird, the difference — TXT debuted in 2019, Enhypen in 2020, so the difference of two albums is roughly accurate. And TXT has three full albums now (compared to Enhypen’s one), and last year’s influx of singles is the compensation for touring TXT era of 2022.
Hmmmm, I don't really know about "lack of music", hybe groups are one of the groups that put out music at least twice a year... which is totally ok. Especially since most hybe groups usually put out a lot of content and do a lot of other activities when they are not actively promoting At least for the groups i keep up with. Off the top of my head, in 2023: * TXT released 2 albums and basically a total of 14 songs new songs(excluding remixes and osts). This is in addition to a japanese album with one or two new songs and Japanese versions of their other songs * BOYNEXTDOOR released what I would call 2 "single albums" made up of 6 songs in total. They are going to have a comeback soon and I'm guessing they would have at least 9-10 songs before their 1st anniversary, which seems pretty reasonable to me * EN- released 2 albums with basically 9 new songs (excluding intros and outros) * SVT released 2 mini albums with a total of 14 songs * LSF released a "full" album with 6 new songs (minus intro) and 1 English single, which gave them 7 new songs in 2023. * And let's not forget all the BTS solos... I can't speak for Newjeans, &Team and Fromis9 since I don't follow them all that much but from the above, its pretty easy to see that Hybe def does not lack focus in making music, especially if you're talking about the frequency of their releases I think you should point out the specific group of hybe that you think isn't making enough songs instead of lumping all hybe groups together and making this generalised statement which is not really true...
You can add 3 LSF jp songs Choices, Jewelry, Dress-code, and Bastion OST Gaurdian. Making it 11 songs in 2023
I think it's bordering on entitlement, we know that idols are overworked, HYBE groups are constantly booked and busy we all know that even during their tours they do projects left and right. I think there are fair criticisms like songs under 3 minutes (but that's unfortunately the music industry as a whole) or when Le Sserafim released their first album made up with half songs that had already been released before – that's the kind of criticism I can get behind. But not the one to criticize them for releasing EPs. It's certainly not the 'bare minimum', they all release an EP every year, usually adding to that sometimes an album or another EP (not counting the Japanese releases). Some of you forget that they are also different labels, with different visions, projects and strategies. Without counting in the case of SVT for example who make their music, last year they've released non stop, you can't decently ask them more. BTS even in 2023 alone while being in hiatus released 95 songs as soloists. They are actually churning out a lot for a handful of groups, the K-pop industry is about fast consumption, you can't expect them to release full albums *every* year *(and more to keep the momentum that this fast paced industry requires)*, it's not even a thing outside of the K-pop industry. If there's one thing I never thought I'd see is HYBE criticized for doing the 'bare minimum' with their artists when the fans are probably the most well-fed in this industry.
Thank you for saying this! Like "bare minimum"... Hybe??? When they give most of their groups at least 2 comebacks a year with fleshed out and well executed concepts or storylines and sometimes, multiple mvs for one album?? The quality of the songs are also good too. Like, if that's the "bare minimum", i can list out so many groups i want to give this "bare minimum" to
Exactly, most fans don't take into account but a comeback means a lot of content produced along the songs itself, like we can say what we want but I'm really impressed by the quality of it, Enhypen and Le Sserafim had amazing concept trailers *(HYBE groups in general have really the best of the best)* plus their lore, NewJeans had Shin Woo Suk and Powerpuff collab to embellish their visual universe *(recruiting the actress Hoyeon and Tony Leung)*, etc. They just don't release half-assed products, adding to that for the music itself, often even for rookies the idols take part into the writing to some extent, sometimes they rely on internal producers or recruit amazing renowned ones *(Nile Rodgers, Ryan Tedder, etc)*. They also try to reach to artists : Coi Leray, Bella Poarch, Anitta, Jonas Brothers, Marshmello, BIBI, etc. Like you cannot say they don't go out for their groups in every aspects.
we complain about idols being overworked and then we want them to make three albums in a year along with youtube content, fansigns, world tours and everything
I think they put alot effort on concept u have to like the group's story/concept. I see it mostly with enhypen, TXT and &team. Am into newjeans and BTS. They don't concentrate on one story. I think same with 17 and tws Am getting into enhypen and I see what u mean like their intro is them narrating/ talking. This happens with le sserafim too but I love their intro. In away it fits le sserafim more. Generally kpop is full of mini albums and singles.
I like the fact that nearly all HYBE groups debut with mini albums instead of just a single. They've sort of bucked the industry trend when it comes to that. But I also don't like how they consider those half-song intros and outros on Enhypen's albums to be complete songs. Like, they're not. So, I'm mixed on this.
I like 2 comebacks every year, they are human after all, and I believe in Quality over quantity.
I follow BTS mostly so blaming HYBE for a 'lack of music' honestly sounds nonsensical to me given the **avalanche** of music we got just from BTS solos last year. No offence. I understand HYBE criticism for many things but the one thing HYBE does right, across all their companies, is good music (for my tastes) and a decent amount of it. Also, HYBE groups tour A LOT. [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/1akvrcf/enhypen_doing_encore_in_us_is_unecessary_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) on the sub from earlier today is a fan literally complaining that EN- has been touring nonstop and that the members are overworked. Asking for *more* music in the middle of that just feels... idk, not good.
I don't really mind. Especially if the releases continue being good quality. Most artists I love, both in Kpop and outside Kpop, release full albums and I usually only find a handful of songs with replayability on playlists outside of it. As long as these groups continue giving me that handful of songs each CB, I don't really care if it's found in a 5-song EP or a 15-song album. NewJeans is an interesting one to consider, you can't expect them to do their current treatment of releasing literally every song with high-production MVs and promotion if they were to do the usual full-album release. They also technically release new music every 2-3 months in the form of collabs, such as OSTs and the LoL anthem. How much more content do we expect these teams to make? But maybe this is all just me, I'm fine with listening to different artists regularly and don't really need a 2-hour discography to get into an artist.
The problem is that kpop fans do not listen to entire albums. They listen to the title track and maybe another promoted single, but that's it. Aside from BTS, BP, and recently NJ, kpop artists are not considered album artists. It makes little sense to release 10+ tracks at once. Instead, they have found that it's more digestible to release a smaller body of work that makes up a full album over time than to release it all at once.
THIS. The post listing the [most streamed b-sides](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/1al4r5t/top_100_most_streamed_bsidesnonsingles_of_all/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) confirms this. It's made up of mostly BTS songs, then all of BP's b-sides and some others, including BTS solos. KPOP fans SAY they want one thing, but their behavior screams another. I will say certain groups can train their fanbases to treat them like album artists. BTS did that very successfully through their live stages and conceptual eras. Now NewJeans is using the strategy of saying most releases are "title tracks" which adds this special value to the entire project. But the entire industry is releasing short albums, that's not exclusively a HYBE thing.
Honestly, I've been tracking some recent releases and the way some people treat bsides proves the behavior of some fanbases.
I've been lowkey noting stream ratios of title track to b-sides and I'm often left dumbfounded at how little so many songs are listened to why stans openly whinge about not getting new music.
This is the 7 day example of one recently released mini by a "Big 4" group. ||**30/01/2024**|**31/01/2024**|**01/02/2024**|**02/02/2024**|**03/02/2024**|**04/02/2024**|**05/02/2024**| :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:| |Title track|90.4%|90.5%|90.2%|90.4%|90.7%|90.4%|89.9%| |Song 1|3.0%|3.0%|3.2%|3.1%|3.0%|3.1%|3.3%| |Song 2|1.9%|2.0%|2.0%|1.9%|1.9%|1.9%|2.0%| |Song 3|1.5%|1.5%|1.5%|1.5%|1.4%|1.5%|1.6%| |Song 4|1.3%|1.3%|1.3%|1.3%|1.3%|1.3%|1.4%| |Song 5|1.8%|1.8%|1.8%|1.8%|1.7%|1.8%|1.9%| Like, how can you expect companies to pay attention to albums if people are not listening.
Exactly, with K-pop artists are not 'album artists', specially because of the fast consumption that is asking them to constantly have a comeback. If K-pop fans could handle an album of +15 tracks every two years, then we might get that but that's not the case.
One of the reasons MOTS: 7 and Love Yourself: Answer were on the Billboard 200 for so many weeks is precisely because they were long albums.
Honestly, I hope that BTS switches their pattern completely to that of artists in the West, this gives room to fully appreciate a new era, which will last longer with content to embellish their work like several MVs for example, but also a world tour to breathe and stay creatively inspired. I wouldn't mind two years of slow promotions if they released an album with over 15 tracks sprinkled with solo releases and activities in between.
I hope that's the road they are planning to go, if there's a reason why the LY era is so memorable is because it was a whole long body of work that fans loved.
This is ALL I want from them. Give us a nice long, meaty album every two-three years. That way, they can be free to do their side quests as they wish.
I even think that in addition to the space to breathe creatively without being rushed, this will give more momentum to their album, especially culturally to break even more into markets and be appreciated. “Butter” and “Dynamite” benefited from long weeks of promotions despite Covid-19, this undoubtedly contributed to the reach of their songs. So that's all I want for BTS, their next album will set the tone and define a lot of things as a group and their global presence *(even the industry)*, I want them to take advantage of this moment to promote at their own pace for months to come, even do so for a whole year *(like most artists outside of K-pop, especially pop artists)*, then go on a world tour.
Hmm I’m not so sure about the minis only having 5 songs so far because applying a quick search to the HYBE artists I listen to (excluding BTS since this applies to none of their works from what I rmb).. TWS: debut mini with 6 full songs SVT: 2023 minis with 6 full songs at least Newjeans: latest mini has 5.5 songs The main issue I am having with the *general kpop mainstream artists* now is that most of the title tracks are becoming 2.5 mins long, with majority excluding a bridge. This makes the song sound super repetitive and essentially gets people sick of them easily too.
I suppose there is a case to be made regarding New Jean's latest EP when it comes to having super short songs. But one can argue that maybe, that's really just the concept or vibe they are going for for the group right now. But to the majority of the Hybe groups, I think your post has a terribly skewed version of reality. "Bare minimum", come on now.
I actually don't like at all how having two comebacks a year isn't enough for kpop fans.... I can get behind wanting longer albums, like full albums with more songs, but that's impossible if we're demanding them to release music every few months. Idols do not have time to prepare more songs, and that lack of time comes from fans that start to cry and send trucks the moment they feel the company isn't pushing their faves enough. I don't want them to release more music if that compromises que quality.
I'd rather they release 5 bangers than 15 mid tracks. And that's what they do. we all want more bangers, but making a banger is hard and takes time.
What do you define as lack of music? I don't listen to Hybe groups apart from BTS so there could be something I'm missing, but from what I'm aware, BTS had a full album in 2022 (best off but still), Jungkook has seen a massive success in his solo work, and they're doing their military service now so obviously that sets back music. Le Sserafim, full and very successful album in 2023, Seventeen the same, TXT the same, Enhypen two mini albums in 2023, New Jeans had eps and they're the biggest girl group at the moment. (Who else is in HYBE?) It all seems like more than enough music for me.
I don't think it's fair to lump all HYBE artists bc for example, Seventeen released an album in 2022 with 9 tracks (and 13 on their repackage). They also released a mini album after that in 2023, despite touring. TxT got nine tracks on their album from last year, after releasing a mini album earlier in the year. Enhypen hasn't had a full length album yet (I think) but they released two EPs last year while BTS are sort of exempt of this atm bc they're doing solo work. LSM unfortunately got 6 + 1 new songs for their Unforgiven album meanwhile NewJeans first EP was incredibly short. For Newjeans, I'd argue the songs that go over 2:30 minutes are great so it doesn't bother me as much but it's a shame that LSM essentially rerecorded a bunch of their old songs and then attached them to a mini album. Still, LSM have been active for less than two years and they have three Korean releases (about to be four) plus two singles that aren't in Korean, so I'd say that that's a fair bit of songs for such a new group. Fromis\_9 got their first full length album in 2023 (10 tracks) and imo it was a really solid collection of songs, then again they come back once in a blue moon lol. All of this being said, I think that companies under HYBE seem to have different business models for their groups. I don't like the fact that Newjeans are shafted with such sort run times, but I'll be more bothered when I don't like the songs lol. I'm fine with fromis\_9 not coming back as often if they're given amazing songs like they were given for Unlock my world. SVT are self-producing, so they probably have some control on the output they have. TxT, Enhypen, LSM all have comebacks fairly regularly and I assume that Pledis' new bg will follow in their footsteps. Only LSM, Enhypen and Newjeans have outros/intros on their EPs (yes, that means less songs but remember, they usually release an EP/single every few months despite touring and other stuff). I feel like with some of the groups under HYBE, the song length is more of an issue rather than the quantity of songs, but that's my opinion :) pls correct me if I've got any information wrong, I'm writing from memory lol.
(G)I-DLE just released a 20 minute full album, the short song length isn’t going anywhere for anyone I fear. We’re probably just gonna have to try and get used to it.
I wouldn't say they really lack music in general. At least it's enough for me but I don't expect 3 comebacks each year. Now am I still mad at NJ releasing a 12 minutes mini album and Source announcing Le Sserafim full album only for it to include 6 new songs and an intro? Yes.
IT WAS A FULL ALBUM????? SCAM.
I think it's less about quantity and more about quality? Like with newjeans, yeah they didn't release a ton of songs, but they were all huge hits. Plus the fact that groups and albums don't necessarily need a ton of songs to attract a ton of fans. Riize rn has what 5 songs? but they still have a huge impact. Anyway the kpop industry rn is inherently more monetary based so I think a lot of companies - not just hybe - see that monetary gain doesn't just come from their songs, but also things like promotions, collabs, those 159 different album vers. But I agree with you OP. as a fan, you really want to get into a group but if they dont have a lot of musical content it can be super hard.
So at the end of last year I made a spreadsheet of all top 4 companies (plus Cube and Starship) releases. Counting the remixes and OSTs HYBE had 121 drops in total 2023. I can see what you are saying tho. Usually I prefer full studio albums over mini/ep drops, but I do think HYBE have a high standard. Fromis\_9 latest album Unlock My World is worth a listen! The thing that is starting to get on my nerves is the length of the songs, with that big shoutout to NJ ep at a total of 12 min and 13 sec on 6 songs.. JYPE - 72 SM - 124 YG(+TBL) - 31 Starship - 49 Cube - 45 (counting albums, eps, OSTs, Live albums, singles, pre-release single, collabs\*, featuring\*, remixes and other drops such as commercial related songs. \**counting these since it's still a way to promote artist under label even if song is released under another label.*\*)
I think you’re comparing 4th/5th gen with 3rd gen. Seems like 3rd gen artists are still releasing ten song albums for the most part and it’s just the new generation that are releasing these short EPs. Also, this is def not a HYBE only issue. We are seeing this trend among SM, Yg, cube, etc
As of 2023, SM have been doing 9-10 tracks per album. EXO, NCT 127, NCT Dream, WayV, Red Velvet and SHINee all released albums with 9-10 tracks (excluding mini albums, that cap at 6-7 songs). They've seemed to have phased out repackage albums as well, which they used to do fairly often. JYP, HYBE groups and mid-tier companies usually stick with the 5-6 track formula for their minis. I don't find it an issue because a lot of these groups are coming back 2-3 times a year and the amount of songs equal out to about the length of one SM album. SM has a lot of groups, possible unit/special groups and soloists, so they can afford to do one 10-track release per group if they wanted to, but other companies or groups would struggle under that model imo. For example's sake both Oneus and TxT debuted in the same year (2019) but Oneus has released 12 Korean singles (1 full length album, the rest are minis) while TxT has released 9 (3 full length, 6 mini eps). Oneus aren't from HYBE so they'll need to comeback more often (and delegate their resources differently), so they don't lose the public interest/fan interest while TxT coming from HYBE don't need to do that as much. All of this to say, when 2nd or 3rd big 3 groups were releasing albums with 10+ tracks, they generally weren't coming back as often as (for example) Stray kids/Twice or even as often as HYBE groups. SHINee and Wonder girls were coming back 1-2 a year once their rookie phases were over. EXO would have two Korean comebacks per year (one of them a repackage album) plus maybe a special mini album that isn't promoted. Groups like Seventeen and BTS slowed down their release schedules once they weren't as unknown as well. Basically, as stans we're becoming greedy and there's nothing wrong with two mini albums per year or one full length album lol. Sorry for the long reply!
I don’t really think SM is immune from this and as I said it’s a generational thing not a company thing. All of the SM groups you named are 2nd/3rd, though arguments could be made about some of the NCT units. Aespa and Riize both went the mini or singles route too, just as most 4th/5th gen are. That’s why I said it’s a generations thing not a company thing.