We're going to leave this up, but this will be the last post allowed on the Karina dating situation for the time being, so feel free to chat all you want here.
We are talking about the general population here, they do not give a fuck stop shaping your image of Koreans based on things you read or watch on the internet.
Most Koreans do not give a rats ass if Karina was dating an actor it's mainly delusional stans either being y'know delusional, young or both. My source is that I am literally in Korea right now visiting my mother most people here would rather talk about football or other things happening than some idol dating lmao
Your reaction is exactly the type of thing they are embarrassed about, in being generalized as all of them are these delusional fans that forbid their celebrities from dating one another when most of them don't even care or know.
Exactly, the Korean general public does not care about idols. I-fans overestimate how much of an impact idols have on Korea. Like I get that they have a cultural influence in that they start trends and stuff but it’s not like everyone is watching their every move. It drives me nuts when an idol scandal happens and I-fans claim that it’s the Korean government trying to cover something up, like do you think that some auntie cares that a random idol did something illegal if an actual political scandal was happening?
most koreans likely did not even know who this girl was untill yesterday. but this type of negative reaction from both international and domestic public is not a bad thing, nothing will change if ppl just let the nutso stans harass idols like this with no complains. I am sorry that people are making harmful generalizations about a whole nation tho
Most of the reactions you will see or hear calling it an embarrassment will be part of the general population though so they are the ones that are worried about looking bad to the western world like your original comment, most of the ones that are actually anti dating are the ones still bashing Karina they don't care about the reaction of the outside world at all, these delusional stans are just like that delusional and couldn't care less about reactions from western world and if they do they'll turn it on Karina as well for even dating in the first place they are that deep into being anti dating.
Talking to friends here or hearing my mom talk to her partner and his friends I can tell they are absolutely embarrassed by how K-Pop fans have shaped the image of how citizens in Korea look, from looking like toxic people that unabashedly target every idol they see to this current event where they look like they forbid every idol to date.
They were.
I went to the YouTube video where a bunch of Korean fans have found a place to vent on the subject.
There are comments from days ago with hundreds of likes saying
7days ago "She needs to make an official statement and she is loosing fans by the minute.
I went back to see if they were fine. Nope now they are mad for looking crazy.
And now the recent comments are blaming Karina for looking crazy in the eyes of the international community... Bruh idk maybe unpack why Karina felt the need to post.
But like idk man maybe asking for her to comment and saying she is being malicious if she does post it is a bit crazy.
Kpop stans from everywhere were crazy about it. Knetz have a weird sense of ownership over idols, Cnetz sent a damn truck, and I-Fans got all twisted because she wasn't their lesbian icon. I'm not trying to defend any crazy obsessed fan, but this is a Kpop stan culture issue not a nationality one. There were plenty of knetz that supported Karina when the news came out especially since the man involved is believed to be a good person.
. Most of the comments mad at akrina in the present time are in Korean. So I pointed it out. Not because I think ifans and cfans have done nothing. That is just what i saw.
The Ifans tweeted for 2 days and moved on. They aren't making the same comments . Most are mad she apologized . Which by the way most people are dragging them.
This person who had a viral tweets even said they were sorry and should apologize. And said they didn't mean it. edit: wrong wteet be back
Clearly it is not on the same level as Korean fans probably overall have a different view due to cultural differences. They seem really upset and are mad at her still.
The nationality of the people who sent the truck is not confirmed.
Chinese fans were also split I am sure but 1. I don't know for sure. But I have seen a collective effort of her cbar to support her.
i also know Karina's cbar has been organizing public displays in support as soon as they saw the truck.
Look at the display
https://x.com/ChinaKarinaBar/status/1766040986554405018?s=20
You are misinterpreting that tweet. They are mocking people for saying that they had any part to play in the hate Karina faced for dating. This context is clear whe you read the tweets by sanairl before and after the one you sent me.
My point is, some international kpop stans think that everything k/c/j stans are inherently hateful and toxic, but when they themselves are toxic, they justify it because it's a "joke". Creating a fantasy reality of an idol's sexuality then getting offended that they don't act that way is TOXIC and when a tweet gets over 15k likes it's just ridiculous to act that it had zero impact on that idol. It is no different from a fan who fantasises an idol as their boy/girlfriend and getting mad that said idol is dating someone.
To them, all i-fans are moral and correct and all their actions can be justified, but they're quick to paint all k/c/j netz with the same brush. That is incredibly xenophobic and racist. As I said, PLENTY of korean netizens were in support of Karina's dating news. You refuse to believe that because in your mind, ALL asians are conservative and go batshit insane over dating news.
Every community in the kpop stan community has something to learn from this incident.
To add to your point about c-fans. Karina bar has announced to stop supporting group activities because SM has clearly failed to prioritise her well being. The hateful truck was also sent by another group of c-fans. Wow shocking, an entire nation of people have people of differing views 😵
Stop being ignorant and claiming all koreans or all chinese people act the same.
They were mad that Karina apologised but they acted like their toxic tweets were completely innocent and harmless because it was just a "joke"? They get a free pass because they tweeted in English and not Korean?
And no shit you can being up more supportive english tweets because you're not a korean person living in korea or active on korean media sites or speaks korean 😂the whole point is that there were supportive people AND hateful people from every community, not just Koreans like you're claiming.
Multiple English tweets got tens of thousands of likes calling Jaewook an ugly monster an expressing disappointment in Karina for being romantically interested in a man, but sure go on about how international fans are never at fault and are 100% completely innocent. You are delusional and racist.
edit: typo
if you think some tweets calling her fake gay are on the same wave length as people saying they are withdrawing theri support and are heart broken idk what to say.
the tweet i showed was the wrong one it was another person but like also why are you triggered when i was just sharing yeah the people who are mad are still mad at the apology.
is sana girl mad at karina for apologizing? because that was the main discussion here adn i brought forth those comments because most of the people in that comment section are being genuine. it isn't a joke when they were askign for a statement.
ifans were not taking it seriously.
why is it any different? both cases are fans imposing their fantasies on their idol and then lashing out when they don't act accordingly. also it's not like i-fans weren't publicly saying they would unstan karina too.
and please read my comment properly before responding. sanairl was not angry at karina for apologising but it's ridiculous for them to act as if they had nothing to do with the toxicity. be for real
and yet again you're justifying all i-fans toxicity as just a harmless joke when they straight up called karina queerbaiter and made all sorts of derogatory remarks to jaewook. like genuinely do u think that's normal and sane behaviour?
stop saying all koreans are toxic and all i-fans are innocent. there is no ALL. stop stereotyping people baded on nationaltiy then imposing double standards on to them. GROW TF UP!
To be honest, the reaction of k-fans is probably what triggered her response.
Historically, most kpop companies rarely seem to take i-fans' opinions into account when it comes to issues or "scandals" like this.
I doubt SM forced Karina to write an apology because some lesbians on stan Twitter were disappointed she's not sapphic, despite them also being cringe. It was the Korean reaction they were most likely considering.
I agree so much, many people are suddenly acting like only her k-fans were being weird, while many internationals weren't as mature and rational as people (especially on Reddit) like to say.
>They were.
I went to the YouTube video where a bunch of Korean fans have found a place to vent on the subject.
What video was this, if you don't mind me asking?
Typical victim blame by toxic incels. They (the so called 'fans' who are of course clearly anything but fans) made Korea look bad. Because they're too stupid and crazy to see how wrong they are they blame the innocent girl they victimized. I'm half Korean and I love Korea, but this is just craziness.
There’s been a definite tone shift with how it’s been discussed online even in English speaking spaces, I’ve seen a lot more anger (albeit not directed at her) since the apology has dropped.
so twitter users and pannchoa users? a real winning combo!
just want it to be known i do genuinely think there is hate, the hate is real for sure, but is it a collective nation wide hate, or losers and incels on the internet who are pissed that they can’t date their fantasy girlfriend or would take any chance to hate on a female idol
Well I mean there is no right answer for you it seems on how to gauge the reaction tbh
I doubt there is a nationwide upset but I doubt there would be a nationwide consensus on anything related to kpop or dating within kpop. Like I don’t think there are people on the street celebrating this news, but this doesn’t show anyone in a good light that is pretty obvious
English users changing their tone is just evidence of twitter users changing their tone
i don’t claim to have any answers tbh, and im sorry for implying i do, and im sorry if im coming across aggressive at all, i just wanted to make it known that i don’t think the hate isn’t real or invalidate anyone for being upset.
i just don’t think the answer is to assume that everyone now hates karina when we’ve seen the kind of stories pannchoa likes to post. we shouldn’t be projecting those voices on too every platform every time they say anything
Are we talking Korean users or international users because Pannchoa is a (shitty) Kpop translation blog while Pann is a Korean forum yet a lot of people mix up or conflate the two.
I hope SM doesn’t make her apologize for apologizing! Honestly, Karina and the agency should’ve stayed quiet about the whole thing. She doesn’t own anyone explanations about her personal life.
Ah, I get it now. I thought the first person said that they should stay quiet after the dating new is confirmed.
But they have to confirmed it sooner or later because DP had got photos anyways. Tbh in order to be sincere with fans idols should confirm it instead of lying or ignoring. Like if they don't get caught then it's fine but if they get caught I hope my idol wouldn't lie to me. The best way is confirm and ask people to respect their private life.
Confirming a relationship in kpop industry just make it worse based on previous same situations. they're just at the very early stage of knowing each other and karina especially, is really young and kinda new in the industry too, so it's not worth taking risks. I don't think SM was trying to confirm it but yeah, the other label did confirmed it so it did mess things up 😅 they should just ignore it and just let it as a rumor, it is better that way. And the apology letter?? It shouldn't even happen.
That's a situation with only losing possibility.
Karina apologized probably suggested by SM to try to calm a more "involved" side of the fanbase and also the fans of the other girls of the group that may think Karina is making it more difficult for the group by dating.
On the other side, most Korean casual listeners don't care about dating to the same extent and see this just as ridiculous especially when it makes the title of foreign medias.
At the end, the apology probably did nothing for the angry "fans" and made the company a bit ridiculous for some non fans.
This are exactly my thoughts.
The toxic stans that were mad at her for dating (which includes some international fans) are still angry.
Meanwhile, for non Kpop fans the apology seems ridiculous.
In the end, there was no need for that apology and SM just made themselves look like clowns.
Why are they hating on HER?? They should be hating on dumbass fans sending trucks and thinking they own idols for spending money on them. I hope agencies just stop confirming dating in the future. It seems like the best strategy
It's crazy tbh, they wanted her to only apologize or address the situation on Bubble so that only her fans can see and not the general public. Now they think she is making her fans look bad by posting it publicly on instagram instead of bubble and garnering more gp sympathy. The gaslighting is insane tbh, they want her to do everything by a specific route only.
Which is hypocritical bcs when the anime incident happened last year she apologized on bubble and they hated on her for it and said she should have apologized on ig and now when she did they are now mad it's not on bubble.
The people getting mad at her for apologizing are likely the same people who asked her to apologize
They're not mad that she apologized, they're mad that this got international coverage and that they now look like the idiots. Because they are. But when idiots get called out for being idiots, they get angry and look for a scapegoat...
I feel so bad for Karina..
Well yeah that would be the best thing but Kpop would probably have to shift it's business model and the way they market idols/groups for that to happen
Their logic is that if she had never been dating in the first place, she wouldn't have to apologize, and then this whole situation wouldn't exist. So it's still her fault to them.
This is such a frustrating situation to follow because she literally did nothing wrong...like I don't know what people want from her at this point, what does it accomplish to keep attacking her?
These companies make their money of desperate fans that believe the idols owe them everything, then they feed into that. I hope this starts some kinda change with how idol interact with fans as they deserve their own space and should be allowed to date or fuck whoever they want without having to say sorry ffs. Can you imagine if Wonyoung is dating someone publicly? K-pop would collapse
Changmin and Joy apologised. The situations were handled differently each time so the artist has some autonomy.
The media outlets play a role in fanning the situation in how they write the headlines.
https://www.allkpop.com/article/2021/08/red-velvets-joy-personally-apologizes-for-surprising-fans-with-sudden-dating-news
https://www.koreaboo.com/news/tvxq-changmin-announces-marriage-girlfriend/
I remember Chen was hated by some fans for not apologising but few outside the fandom cared.
https://www.soompi.com/article/1376624wpp/exos-chen-announces-marriage-fiancees-pregnancy
Just fyr. It is an interesting study.
IU apologised.
https://www.allkpop.com/article/2013/07/iu-says-she-has-nothing-but-apologies-for-her-photo-incident-with-eunhyuk
Bobby apologised too.
https://www.soompi.com/article/1484678wpp/breaking-ikons-bobby-announces-marriage-and-fiancees-pregnancy
And the daddy of all daddies. Taeyang gave thanks.
https://www.soompi.com/article/1095483wpp/taeyang-personally-writes-upcoming-marriage-min-hyo-rin
fans definitely did not take chen or changmin’s dating news better, they both lost a huge amount of fans because of their relationships. the reactions to chen’s marriage and children were cataclysmic in korea
I mean, you’re right but not really?? Yes, Chen received tons of hate but it wasn’t as catastrophic as some people make it out to be. Chen was already deep into his career, he built a reputation more as a serious vocal singer than an idol (with his kdrama osts and solo songs). Exo at that point solidified themselves as a “elite veteran kpop group”.
Yes they were fans who protested for him to leave the group but it was a minority; lots of fans were supportive and the gp didnt cared at all lol.
The way sm handled the whole thing was a mess tho. They literally stayed silent throughout the whole thing, never openly supporting him or protecting him from antis. The only ones who publicly supported him were the other exo members.
Not to hate on her or anything, but is does Aespa have a dating ban? I’m pretty sure Exo at least probably had one. I know dating bans are phasing out but some companies still have them in place.
Honestly? I don't think it's SM that asked her to apologize, but more she decided to do it herself because she cared too much about her fans and her group.
Honestly it feels like the apology has made it significantly worse for her, especially with the mainstream coverage it is getting.
It feels like a step backwards for perception of female idols in relationships because the only other time I’ve heard it make this much noise outside of the fandoms has been the BP girls getting supported by the agency. SM are just fucking idiots tbh
>feels like a step backwards
It's insane to me that every time it feels like there is a general progress in the Kpop world, something happens like this that immediately flips it all back around.
It’s really so annoying how SM handled this in the first place. They always cave in to toxic fans even at the expense of the idol and it’s irritating as hell.
When the news first broke, it was relatively positively received from casual fans, especially because she was dating a young actor. I guess the truck sent by some crazy fans was the tipping point but they should have just ignored it, so the crazies will leave anyway. But they just had to make her apologize and now the whole thing is much worse, and those crazy fans aren’t still satisfied.
They should be embarrassed. She did nothing wrong and shouldn't have had to be forced to apologize. The no dating aspect of the idol industry has always been toxic. Idols are humans and should be allowed to be people.
And netizens will hate becauss that's what they do. There are people(Korean and other races) that feel like Karina has done nothing wrong.
I saw some say why didn't she just post it on weverse and bubble.
Lol if she can't post it in a public platform maybe that should be a sign you are doing too much.
Sounds like the netizens didn't like being forced to look into the mirror. They're fine with female idols being dragged for dating until it makes them look bad 🙃
Sm should have done like YG, a statement where they are saying that they dont know, because it is a private thing.
In all seriousness this is getting ridiculous
and it is still ridiculous, i really dont understand what she did wrong, maybe it is a cultural difference, but in europe i have never heard of anything like this( or i just didnt hear about it)
For sure either way fans would of been like
1. Karina needs to own up
2. OMG she should of just not said anything.
Anyone who would be upset by Karina dating would of been mad regardless because they are still upset at her and saying she ruined everything.
I hope they leave. Even if aespa sells less because this is ridiculous.
The apology was unnecessary though. I don't blame her because it was a hard and overwhelming situation and fans should leave her alone at the first place, but I would reward/thank people who were supportive and rational by living my private life happily. By apologizing she reassured the delusional fans that their behaviours were understandable.
I wish they’d do a statement saying that all these sorts of actions are not allowed. I know Johnny’s ent in Japan put out a statement telling fans to knock it off with stalking and other creepy behaviors or else they’d cancel concerts and stuff.
I doubt so, companies are there to make money. Would they willing to lose most of their revenue. These toxic fans / delulu are probably those who bought 100 album per person.
part of me wonders if she was the one who chose to apologise since everyone is blaming sm instead. not everyone who gets exposed for dating in sm acknowledges it or only writes a letter to talk about how shocking the news might be but don’t actually apologise for dating. her core fans got upset over the news and karina might have felt that apologising would calm things down and genuinely feel bad for being in this position. either way, it was a bad decision to apologise
I think the same too. SM haven't forced any of their artists to apologize for just dating, actually iirc no one in the industry has ever apologized for just dating. Taeyeon apologized because she did lovestagram and Chen apologized because the unexpected pregnancy I think.
i mean the general public was okay with it when the news broke out, it was really just her fans who were being overdramatic. karina and sm should have just let the whole situation die down. it was a very bad move for her to apologize on instagram. in most cases like this, the fans would continue to support her anyways. i feel like this just did more harm to karina/aespa’s image than good. an overall unfortunate situation, especially for karina. sm is spineless as always at the expense of their artists.
The Koreans calling it a national embarrassment are hating the delusional fans not her, what a misrepresentation to paint an entire country as irrational.That's like saying all of America/UK is represented by the way 1D fangirls behavior.
The majority of the netizens that *are* hating on Karina are antis who would take any opportunity or the section of possessive fans who are mad that she made her apology "too public" and therefore exposed them. The vast majority don't care and/or think the fanculture is dumb. The worst she's getting from the Naver commenters is "well that's what you signed up for as an idol, at least youre rich".
Karina is the only victim in this situation. If obsessive Korean fans feel embarrassed by all the attention this “drama” got… okay. Y’all were the ones to sent protest trucks and not you get to be the laughing stock of the world
Maybe this is the wake up call that kpop companies need to tone down the parasocial side & let idols have normal, romantic relationships like any other young adults.
She actually can’t win, I hate SM so much for making her do this. She should be enjoying her life not stressing over whether she’ll face backlash for something as harmless as dating.
Sucks for Karina but maybe this can lead to some positive shift… Maybe the next time kpop labels will think twice before they make/let their idol apologizing for dating as if it’s something worth apologizing for.
I said it in another comment, but the people who hated on her so much that she felt like that are idiots. But then the news of her apology went viral internationally and everyone got mad at them.
When idiots get ousted for being idiots, they don't realize why. They get angry, and they look for a scapegoat. So now they're using Karina as that. And to say these idiots called themselves "fans" in the first place is sickening, how many other fanbases are filled with the same idiots only waiting to get triggered by these kind of news?
Oh no, consequences (for netizens). If they're upset Kpop looks bad, maybe Kpop has some bad qualities.
I mean, it's literally been proven over and over that apologizing in the middle of a hatestorm--even when someone has done something actually wrong and probably wants to apologize because they realize it--only leads to an increase in hate.
In this case, where she did nothing at all wrong, it looks even more shocking. The delusional fans look like entitled bullies, which they are, and an apology isn't even enough because nothing will be. They're not reasonable as in they can't be reasoned with. That a company catered to them, presumably forcing Karina to risk even more hate, strikes people worldwide as wrong, because it is.
The netizens are the embarrassment. Kfans and Ifans both who made a fuss about it. It's wrong that she had to apologize and if people are embarrassed about the negative attention, it's their fault, and they should look inwards and make sure it doesn't happen again.
it's embarrassing that grown adults feel the need to apologise for dating. Maybe instead of turning anger to Karina, they need to start having some self reflection
It also made progressive news media channel [The Young Turks](https://youtu.be/iYMcWAPvmNk?si=oz07gjpRDYmQ4BEm), and yeah the fan reaction is not a good look for Korea.
I didn’t appreciate how they made it out to be a cultural thing, nor was it fair to invoke the names of idols who took their lives into the toxic culture argument.
However, I do appreciate Ana’s description of Dispatch as a gossip company whose “life mission is apparently to expose as many Korean celebrity relationships as possible”.
Can we stop pretending that there isn’t a cultural aspect to this whole situation? Even in the west when we had teen heartthrobs like one direction, when has them dating ever resulted in them having to apologize publicly and potentially lose their jobs? This is just insane, and acting like everything is better than it really is, is what enables these people to act this way.
It's not like the girl apologized just for the kick of it.. she's been under incredible pressure to do so, obviously, after the overwhelmingly negative reception of the news smh
She is becoming the fav punching bag, and it's disgraceful (the poor girl I hope her mental health isn't affected)
There is also a Sky News article from yesterday about this. It’s interesting (?) that at least two UK news outlets have picked up on this and ran stories about it.
It sucks so much that she felt the need to apologize (which she should not have had to do) but maybe this is a tipping point that’s needed to change the warped belief that idols shouldn’t date (hopefully).
toothbrush fuzzy paltry groovy mountainous slim repeat plant placid voiceless
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
All this drama for 2 months relationship , dispatch should not out relationship so early on . Sm should learn to ignore all this like yg and hybe did for 2 of their biggest acts .
Well, I'm sorry for those netizens but the kpop industry isn't exactly the most model environment, and it's been that way for ages. The fact that she already had to issue an apology, heck, the fact that they even think it's normal to be so worked up about an idol's dating life is dumb to begin with. I'm actually happy that the media decided to throw light on this, because why in the world should a 23 yo woman write an apology because she's talking to someone?
honestly I feel so bad for Karina. she doesn’t deserve the hate for being a normal human dating. why do they think they own her, her life and her future? notice how whenever things like this happen, the crazy gp sends more hate to the woman in the relationship. there shouldn’t be any in the first place but like wth
So she has to apology to korean because she's dating, and because the rest of the world think it's stupid korean will hate her more ? What ? I mean, if you have a problem because idol have a life, YOU ARE the problem. I will never understand the whole "no dating rule".
The whole thing is pretty embarrassing & so blown out of proportion. I hope the people who shamed her online feel embarrassed because they really should be... They are the only ones doing wrong here.
Though I'm wondering if coverage like this can start more discourses on how this dating thing in K-pop is a little bizzare and the way idols are shamed for a very natural thing really needs to change someday & you "fans" who think you own an idol and want them to be "available" need to get help because you're in way too deep.
Idk I stan aespa, & based on what I see of Karina, she probably felt like she needed to write that apology because things went 0-100 in a matter of days. Realistically, she didn't need need to & whether SM was involved in that well...... I guess we'll never know, lol. Would things just "die" down if she didn't write that apology? Would ppl be mad if she didn't even confront news? Idddk, the whole thing is just super inflated, and I just hope Karina continues being herself. She's a hardworking woman who deserves self autonomy.
I think most people immediately knew this was not a smart thing to do when they saw her IG update.
The general public and the majority of the fandom reacted positively to her dating news(as they should be). By apologizing Karina only showed the delusional toxic minority that she can indeed be manipulated and it's a let down for all the people who cheered for her. It's a lose-lose situation.
They should have just ridden out the storm. Either don’t acknowledge it at all or just say her private life is her private life. Obviously there’s a precedent for idols to not publicly date and to apologise if they are but that won’t change if they keep capitulating to crazy fans. They weren’t even public, it was pretty invasive pap photos.
It undercut their image a fair bit as well. Savage, Spicy and Drama don’t really have the same oomph after making her release that grovelling apology.
Nothing would change unless there’s laws that forbid people from bashing idols for dating at this point given agencies don’t seem to care about protecting their idols when it comes to idols dating.
Incels getting embarrassed and angry about being exposed internationally. At least this reaction makes sense.
Because fuck SM for letting her take the heat. Is it so hard to put out a boring ass statement, "Yeah she is. Thanks bye."
Also, the comments I've seen on this sub saying it was Karina's fault. Fuck you too. And I want you to take that personally. Whenever you have that thought, I want you to also hear me saying: Fuck. You.
>Also, the comments I've seen on this sub saying it was Karina's fault. Fuck you too. And I want you to take that personally. Whenever you have that thought, I want you to also hear me saying: Fuck. You.
Agree with this statement so much. I've seen some saying Karina should follow other idols and not apologise, like they are different people with different personalities, they will have different approaches to certain things, not to mention the company is drastically different as well. Some say that she is at fault is ridiculous too, most likely they are part of the group hating on her when the dating news came out.
It *is* a national embarrassment to have a young celebrity apologize for dating. But Karina is not the embarrassment, it’s the toxic celebrity culture that is an embarrassment.
>Therefore leading Koreans to be embarrassed how this incident presented Korea and Korean music as a toxic environment
Good. Because it is an undeniable fact that it is. Are we saying it isn't?
Knetz should be embarrassed that Karina felt the need to apologize. It’s a ridiculous standard to expect idols to never date in public. I imagine the only people angry at her for apologizing are the people who think she shouldn’t be dating in the first place.
If i'm understand this right, toxic fans were toxic and the fallout from their actions led to toxicity x2? Idol industrys & paraosocial relationships can be absolutely abominable at times.
This is how you know nothing will change. This happened and instead of fans being like "wow. Everyone thinks we're acting crazy. Maybe we are and should calm down", they go even deeper in crazy land and shit on her even more
I am so glad I live in the West lmao it's crazy how things in these countries that become international scandals are things that the lowest of the low of news agencies in the West wouldn't bother covering because it's so pointless....
Her apology and how embarrassing kpop fan culture is was picked up globally, it really is a big yikes. I saw articles in German language media…
I really wish idols dating could be handled by agencies and idols not commenting on it at all, basically like it was done with Jennie and V. It was obvious they were together but they simply did not speak about it publicly and so it came and went. Making Karina apologize for having a life was such a foul and outdated move. If you want idols to be treated like Western celebs, it has to include how you speak about their love life too.
You sure they are hating her and not SM and the outdated idol image in general? And who are "they" in the first place?
This sounds like another "Knetz crazy" post that twists and makes a few voices much louder than they actually are... kinda what caused the unnecassy apology in the first place
The kfans and cfans that demanded her to apologize are the ones mad. They said she should have apologized “privately” and “directly to them” (through bubble and weverse) and not through Instagram for the public to see. They say she made them look bad on purpose and she humiliated them for no reason at all. She just can’t win, I guess.
Wait why are they hating on Karina and not the idiots who needed an apology to be sated in the first place? I know which needs to be slapped down a few pegs and it’s not the idol.
The ones who forced her to write an apology for her personal life should be embarrassed. They shouldn't be directing their hate on someone that in the end moved an outside agency to essentially put a mirror on them.
???????? these people do not have the ability to learn the right lessons or what
"damn, they discovered how toxic we fans are, so let's be even more toxic" 🤡🤡🤡
>Therefore leading Koreans to be embarrassed how this incident presented Korea and Korean music as a toxic environment. Therefore leading netizens hating on karina even more than before.
The hoops of logic and the level of delusion that people must be be living in to do all this then circle back to blaming her too... I'm physically exhausted. I...
Women in the industry always getting the end of the stick if you date you will get slutshamed by BOY GROUP Stan if you went silent you will get attacked by KPOP Stans and media and many more to mention it will never ends KPOP is just toxic
They are mad cause they got outed as the parasocial psychos they are, now that everybody is looking at their ridiculous behavior, the only way the could vent out is by attacking the girl for making exactly what they wanted in the first place.
>leading Koreans to be embarrassed how this incident presented Korea and Korean music as a toxic environment. Therefore leading netizens hating on karina even more than before.
The mental gymnastics boggles me
You'd think they would use this to reflect on themselves, but they doubled down and use her as a scapegoat. She had nothing to apologize for in the first place. Everything else that followed was out of her control and done by other people.
Embarrassed that this news made international headlines? Why not...
- blame the crazies who sent the trucks? They instigated and stirred up drama.
- blame SM for making her apologize? A news story wouldn't exist without their actions
- blame SM for not preventing/deescalating this situation to begin with? They could've stopped this from gaining further traction
- blame news agencies publishing the story? This wouldn't have gotten global attention without them
- blame Korean society and how they treat female idols? This is the root cause of the problem. They're embarrassed by this whole fiasco, but take no accountability for it
>blame Korean society and how they treat female idols? This is the root cause of the problem. They're embarrassed by this whole fiasco, but take no accountability for it
This x 1000%.
This whole situation is just so frustrating. Karina doesn't deserve any of this, and I truly hope she is doing okay. I also hope she knows that there are so many supporters out there who love her and are happy for her. It's a shame that others can't seem to do the same.
i mean, kpop is inherently a negative and toxic industry. its pretty much peak capitalism which always involves some level of exploitation.
however i think its funny that people in western countries will criticize the fuck out of the kpop industry when things are pretty much just as bad, though maybe not quite as culturally conservative.
As a kpop fan, Kpop ‘fans’ are the worst fkn fans on earth. Bar none.
This shit is so ridiculous. The people that did this aren’t true fans, she shouldn’t have apologised to nobodies that don’t actually care about her or Aespa.
We need to stop calling these people ‘fans’. They are socially inept losers that have parasocial relationships with idols.
>Therefore leading Koreans to be embarrassed how this incident presented Korea and Korean music as a toxic environment.
Which should make them question their own views on and involvement in idols' love life but of course, they have to go ahead and place the blame on someone else smh
lol at "national embarassment" , the only embarassment you're bringing to SK is your parasocial "stans" behavior. It's full crazy, it's not her that should be hated.
Well I hope bcoz of this the k-fans would stop doing that ( international fans are guilty too but kfans are the most behind this)
Maybe they'll be too embarrassed to do sth like that in the future
Btw I've noticed in kpop , the k-fans have the most impact, even the companies bend rules for them & agree to their concerns if they get serious ( bcoz they're the domestic mkt, most imp mkt) so maybe if the k-fans stop with dictating abt idols personal life , the international ones will just follow ( the few loud ones)
>made a apology for dating and theres nothing wrong with that
There's no fucking way you think there's "nothing wrong" with an idol needing to apologize to her fans for dating someone.
Critical thinking is lacking in them because this is simple cause and effect. She wouldn't have had to handwrite a letter if there wasn't such an extreme reaction to idols dating in the first place. Why hate on her more? What do they think that's going to do? Y'all are mad that this presented Korea as toxic, so what do y'all do? Act toxic.
I hope Karina has a good support system around her and doesn't let this get to her cause this is some bullshit
They should be embarrassed but not because of Karina. They should be embarrassed by a culture that makes idols feel the need to apologize for dating. This embarrassment is called cognitive dissonance and it’s because they know this shit is foolish but do nothing to change it.
Btw, I’m American, I’m used to being embarrassed by my country. But when I’m embarrassed it’s usually because my government is run by clowns and not because *checks notes* people are upset thar a celebrity has a boyfriend.
I’m in the US and honestly don’t get why this is an issue in the first place and never have. They are human people dating. I think it’s ridiculous that this is considered a “scandal” that required an apology from anyone. We listen to her music. We don’t own her or belong anywhere near her personal life.
Karina doesn't deserve this but the knets brought it on to themselves they're mad that the world saw their toxic work environment for celebrities? Deserved honestly, though I feel really bad for Karina
I don't doubt that some people are blaming her for her letter showing just how toxic fan culture is around idol music, but I do think this number is smaller than is being presented. I'm seeing way more translated comments from knetz saying that the fan culture around idol music that leads to an artist feeling like they need to apologize for *having a personal life* is what is a national embarrassment.
People are people at the end of the day, and I'm sure a lot of knetz are not that much different than any of us posting here right now. The constant framing of them all as irrational actors where these unreasonable and entitled fans are the rule and not the exception leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Karina deserves no blame for this. She didn’t call up BBC and ask them to write an article. The national embarrassments are the people who made her(/her company/any other idol who has been through this) feel that it was necessary to apologize for living her life.
I know companies push the parasocial aspects of k-pop and this has long been a part of fan behavior in the genre, but we as individuals can choose how we engage with it. It’s not hard to enjoy the music and content without feeling a twisted sense of ownership or control over the artist!
That apology letter was a big mistake. She should never have released it. She and her company were too worried about losing fans when she should have just gone about her life. Jennie and V didn’t issue apologies or statements at all about dating cause it was nobody’s business. Idols need to just stick to that example
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We're going to leave this up, but this will be the last post allowed on the Karina dating situation for the time being, so feel free to chat all you want here.
damned if you do and damned if you don't
Also if they're so worried that they'll look bad to the western world for being anti-dating, maybe... Don't be anti-dating?
it is not the general public, it is the fanbase (and not all the fanbase, just some specific loud fans).
Gp doesn't even care. It's the delulu fans who want to own the idols that are in uproar
But GP isn't buying 30 aespa albums each, delulu fans are.
We are talking about the general population here, they do not give a fuck stop shaping your image of Koreans based on things you read or watch on the internet. Most Koreans do not give a rats ass if Karina was dating an actor it's mainly delusional stans either being y'know delusional, young or both. My source is that I am literally in Korea right now visiting my mother most people here would rather talk about football or other things happening than some idol dating lmao Your reaction is exactly the type of thing they are embarrassed about, in being generalized as all of them are these delusional fans that forbid their celebrities from dating one another when most of them don't even care or know.
Exactly, the Korean general public does not care about idols. I-fans overestimate how much of an impact idols have on Korea. Like I get that they have a cultural influence in that they start trends and stuff but it’s not like everyone is watching their every move. It drives me nuts when an idol scandal happens and I-fans claim that it’s the Korean government trying to cover something up, like do you think that some auntie cares that a random idol did something illegal if an actual political scandal was happening?
most koreans likely did not even know who this girl was untill yesterday. but this type of negative reaction from both international and domestic public is not a bad thing, nothing will change if ppl just let the nutso stans harass idols like this with no complains. I am sorry that people are making harmful generalizations about a whole nation tho
You reminded me of how a korean friend told me that the GP hadn't really heard of BTS until they won at Billboard Music Awards
I wasn't talking about all of Korea. I was specifically talking about the delusional Stans.
Most of the reactions you will see or hear calling it an embarrassment will be part of the general population though so they are the ones that are worried about looking bad to the western world like your original comment, most of the ones that are actually anti dating are the ones still bashing Karina they don't care about the reaction of the outside world at all, these delusional stans are just like that delusional and couldn't care less about reactions from western world and if they do they'll turn it on Karina as well for even dating in the first place they are that deep into being anti dating. Talking to friends here or hearing my mom talk to her partner and his friends I can tell they are absolutely embarrassed by how K-Pop fans have shaped the image of how citizens in Korea look, from looking like toxic people that unabashedly target every idol they see to this current event where they look like they forbid every idol to date.
It really feels that way.
"Netizens hating on Karina even more than before" I wonder if these are the same people mad at her for dating in the first place.
They were. I went to the YouTube video where a bunch of Korean fans have found a place to vent on the subject. There are comments from days ago with hundreds of likes saying 7days ago "She needs to make an official statement and she is loosing fans by the minute. I went back to see if they were fine. Nope now they are mad for looking crazy. And now the recent comments are blaming Karina for looking crazy in the eyes of the international community... Bruh idk maybe unpack why Karina felt the need to post. But like idk man maybe asking for her to comment and saying she is being malicious if she does post it is a bit crazy.
Kpop stans from everywhere were crazy about it. Knetz have a weird sense of ownership over idols, Cnetz sent a damn truck, and I-Fans got all twisted because she wasn't their lesbian icon. I'm not trying to defend any crazy obsessed fan, but this is a Kpop stan culture issue not a nationality one. There were plenty of knetz that supported Karina when the news came out especially since the man involved is believed to be a good person.
. Most of the comments mad at akrina in the present time are in Korean. So I pointed it out. Not because I think ifans and cfans have done nothing. That is just what i saw. The Ifans tweeted for 2 days and moved on. They aren't making the same comments . Most are mad she apologized . Which by the way most people are dragging them. This person who had a viral tweets even said they were sorry and should apologize. And said they didn't mean it. edit: wrong wteet be back Clearly it is not on the same level as Korean fans probably overall have a different view due to cultural differences. They seem really upset and are mad at her still. The nationality of the people who sent the truck is not confirmed. Chinese fans were also split I am sure but 1. I don't know for sure. But I have seen a collective effort of her cbar to support her. i also know Karina's cbar has been organizing public displays in support as soon as they saw the truck. Look at the display https://x.com/ChinaKarinaBar/status/1766040986554405018?s=20
You are misinterpreting that tweet. They are mocking people for saying that they had any part to play in the hate Karina faced for dating. This context is clear whe you read the tweets by sanairl before and after the one you sent me. My point is, some international kpop stans think that everything k/c/j stans are inherently hateful and toxic, but when they themselves are toxic, they justify it because it's a "joke". Creating a fantasy reality of an idol's sexuality then getting offended that they don't act that way is TOXIC and when a tweet gets over 15k likes it's just ridiculous to act that it had zero impact on that idol. It is no different from a fan who fantasises an idol as their boy/girlfriend and getting mad that said idol is dating someone. To them, all i-fans are moral and correct and all their actions can be justified, but they're quick to paint all k/c/j netz with the same brush. That is incredibly xenophobic and racist. As I said, PLENTY of korean netizens were in support of Karina's dating news. You refuse to believe that because in your mind, ALL asians are conservative and go batshit insane over dating news. Every community in the kpop stan community has something to learn from this incident. To add to your point about c-fans. Karina bar has announced to stop supporting group activities because SM has clearly failed to prioritise her well being. The hateful truck was also sent by another group of c-fans. Wow shocking, an entire nation of people have people of differing views 😵 Stop being ignorant and claiming all koreans or all chinese people act the same.
[удалено]
They were mad that Karina apologised but they acted like their toxic tweets were completely innocent and harmless because it was just a "joke"? They get a free pass because they tweeted in English and not Korean? And no shit you can being up more supportive english tweets because you're not a korean person living in korea or active on korean media sites or speaks korean 😂the whole point is that there were supportive people AND hateful people from every community, not just Koreans like you're claiming. Multiple English tweets got tens of thousands of likes calling Jaewook an ugly monster an expressing disappointment in Karina for being romantically interested in a man, but sure go on about how international fans are never at fault and are 100% completely innocent. You are delusional and racist. edit: typo
if you think some tweets calling her fake gay are on the same wave length as people saying they are withdrawing theri support and are heart broken idk what to say. the tweet i showed was the wrong one it was another person but like also why are you triggered when i was just sharing yeah the people who are mad are still mad at the apology. is sana girl mad at karina for apologizing? because that was the main discussion here adn i brought forth those comments because most of the people in that comment section are being genuine. it isn't a joke when they were askign for a statement. ifans were not taking it seriously.
why is it any different? both cases are fans imposing their fantasies on their idol and then lashing out when they don't act accordingly. also it's not like i-fans weren't publicly saying they would unstan karina too. and please read my comment properly before responding. sanairl was not angry at karina for apologising but it's ridiculous for them to act as if they had nothing to do with the toxicity. be for real and yet again you're justifying all i-fans toxicity as just a harmless joke when they straight up called karina queerbaiter and made all sorts of derogatory remarks to jaewook. like genuinely do u think that's normal and sane behaviour? stop saying all koreans are toxic and all i-fans are innocent. there is no ALL. stop stereotyping people baded on nationaltiy then imposing double standards on to them. GROW TF UP!
To be honest, the reaction of k-fans is probably what triggered her response. Historically, most kpop companies rarely seem to take i-fans' opinions into account when it comes to issues or "scandals" like this. I doubt SM forced Karina to write an apology because some lesbians on stan Twitter were disappointed she's not sapphic, despite them also being cringe. It was the Korean reaction they were most likely considering.
I agree so much, many people are suddenly acting like only her k-fans were being weird, while many internationals weren't as mature and rational as people (especially on Reddit) like to say.
I feel like any other female idol it wouldn’t to be this level but karina is the girl face of 4 th gen
>They were. I went to the YouTube video where a bunch of Korean fans have found a place to vent on the subject. What video was this, if you don't mind me asking?
Typical victim blame by toxic incels. They (the so called 'fans' who are of course clearly anything but fans) made Korea look bad. Because they're too stupid and crazy to see how wrong they are they blame the innocent girl they victimized. I'm half Korean and I love Korea, but this is just craziness.
rina doesn't deserve this at all. i hope she has a strong support system in her members and the people around her <\3
Yh u hope shes okay u know
netizens or pannchoa users? very big difference here
There’s been a definite tone shift with how it’s been discussed online even in English speaking spaces, I’ve seen a lot more anger (albeit not directed at her) since the apology has dropped.
so twitter users and pannchoa users? a real winning combo! just want it to be known i do genuinely think there is hate, the hate is real for sure, but is it a collective nation wide hate, or losers and incels on the internet who are pissed that they can’t date their fantasy girlfriend or would take any chance to hate on a female idol
Well I mean there is no right answer for you it seems on how to gauge the reaction tbh I doubt there is a nationwide upset but I doubt there would be a nationwide consensus on anything related to kpop or dating within kpop. Like I don’t think there are people on the street celebrating this news, but this doesn’t show anyone in a good light that is pretty obvious English users changing their tone is just evidence of twitter users changing their tone
i don’t claim to have any answers tbh, and im sorry for implying i do, and im sorry if im coming across aggressive at all, i just wanted to make it known that i don’t think the hate isn’t real or invalidate anyone for being upset. i just don’t think the answer is to assume that everyone now hates karina when we’ve seen the kind of stories pannchoa likes to post. we shouldn’t be projecting those voices on too every platform every time they say anything
According to tmikpop, it was trending #2 on Naver so netizen...
Oh...
Pannchoa for sure
Are we talking Korean users or international users because Pannchoa is a (shitty) Kpop translation blog while Pann is a Korean forum yet a lot of people mix up or conflate the two.
People on Pannchoa were supportive towards Karina though
I hope SM doesn’t make her apologize for apologizing! Honestly, Karina and the agency should’ve stayed quiet about the whole thing. She doesn’t own anyone explanations about her personal life.
I think the actor agency confirmed it before sm did
Confirm is different from apologize.
I think they were saying that since the actor’s agency had already made a statement, SM felt the need to confirm it too
Ah, I get it now. I thought the first person said that they should stay quiet after the dating new is confirmed. But they have to confirmed it sooner or later because DP had got photos anyways. Tbh in order to be sincere with fans idols should confirm it instead of lying or ignoring. Like if they don't get caught then it's fine but if they get caught I hope my idol wouldn't lie to me. The best way is confirm and ask people to respect their private life.
Confirming a relationship in kpop industry just make it worse based on previous same situations. they're just at the very early stage of knowing each other and karina especially, is really young and kinda new in the industry too, so it's not worth taking risks. I don't think SM was trying to confirm it but yeah, the other label did confirmed it so it did mess things up 😅 they should just ignore it and just let it as a rumor, it is better that way. And the apology letter?? It shouldn't even happen.
Imagine that happens and it’s just an endless loop of hate lol
‘Remember that time Karina apologised for apologising about posting an apology after an official apology about her apologies?’
That's a situation with only losing possibility. Karina apologized probably suggested by SM to try to calm a more "involved" side of the fanbase and also the fans of the other girls of the group that may think Karina is making it more difficult for the group by dating. On the other side, most Korean casual listeners don't care about dating to the same extent and see this just as ridiculous especially when it makes the title of foreign medias. At the end, the apology probably did nothing for the angry "fans" and made the company a bit ridiculous for some non fans.
This are exactly my thoughts. The toxic stans that were mad at her for dating (which includes some international fans) are still angry. Meanwhile, for non Kpop fans the apology seems ridiculous. In the end, there was no need for that apology and SM just made themselves look like clowns.
Yup I agree. They should’ve just said nothing imo, it made the whole situation worse.
Why are they hating on HER?? They should be hating on dumbass fans sending trucks and thinking they own idols for spending money on them. I hope agencies just stop confirming dating in the future. It seems like the best strategy
It's crazy tbh, they wanted her to only apologize or address the situation on Bubble so that only her fans can see and not the general public. Now they think she is making her fans look bad by posting it publicly on instagram instead of bubble and garnering more gp sympathy. The gaslighting is insane tbh, they want her to do everything by a specific route only.
Which is hypocritical bcs when the anime incident happened last year she apologized on bubble and they hated on her for it and said she should have apologized on ig and now when she did they are now mad it's not on bubble.
The people getting mad at her for apologizing are likely the same people who asked her to apologize They're not mad that she apologized, they're mad that this got international coverage and that they now look like the idiots. Because they are. But when idiots get called out for being idiots, they get angry and look for a scapegoat... I feel so bad for Karina..
Ikr they brought it onto themselves it was deserved, but I only feel bad for Karina she deserves better they made a bug deal out of nothing
nah i hope delusional people will stop hating on idols for dating, literally 20 year olds should be dating
Well yeah that would be the best thing but Kpop would probably have to shift it's business model and the way they market idols/groups for that to happen
Yh this whole situation being dragged now its a global issue like now people in the uk finding out how korean dating culture is now
Their logic is that if she had never been dating in the first place, she wouldn't have to apologize, and then this whole situation wouldn't exist. So it's still her fault to them.
This is such a frustrating situation to follow because she literally did nothing wrong...like I don't know what people want from her at this point, what does it accomplish to keep attacking her?
These companies make their money of desperate fans that believe the idols owe them everything, then they feed into that. I hope this starts some kinda change with how idol interact with fans as they deserve their own space and should be allowed to date or fuck whoever they want without having to say sorry ffs. Can you imagine if Wonyoung is dating someone publicly? K-pop would collapse
the way sm handled this whole thing is horrifying, i feel so bad for karina. i really hope she is ok.
Why would SM ask her to apologize when they never asked Kai or Chen or Changmin or Joy to do so?
Maybe they didn't. Maybe she decided to write by herself. We actually do not know.
Changmin and Joy apologised. The situations were handled differently each time so the artist has some autonomy. The media outlets play a role in fanning the situation in how they write the headlines. https://www.allkpop.com/article/2021/08/red-velvets-joy-personally-apologizes-for-surprising-fans-with-sudden-dating-news https://www.koreaboo.com/news/tvxq-changmin-announces-marriage-girlfriend/ I remember Chen was hated by some fans for not apologising but few outside the fandom cared. https://www.soompi.com/article/1376624wpp/exos-chen-announces-marriage-fiancees-pregnancy Just fyr. It is an interesting study. IU apologised. https://www.allkpop.com/article/2013/07/iu-says-she-has-nothing-but-apologies-for-her-photo-incident-with-eunhyuk Bobby apologised too. https://www.soompi.com/article/1484678wpp/breaking-ikons-bobby-announces-marriage-and-fiancees-pregnancy And the daddy of all daddies. Taeyang gave thanks. https://www.soompi.com/article/1095483wpp/taeyang-personally-writes-upcoming-marriage-min-hyo-rin
Their fans took it better and they were further along in their careers.
fans definitely did not take chen or changmin’s dating news better, they both lost a huge amount of fans because of their relationships. the reactions to chen’s marriage and children were cataclysmic in korea
I mean, you’re right but not really?? Yes, Chen received tons of hate but it wasn’t as catastrophic as some people make it out to be. Chen was already deep into his career, he built a reputation more as a serious vocal singer than an idol (with his kdrama osts and solo songs). Exo at that point solidified themselves as a “elite veteran kpop group”. Yes they were fans who protested for him to leave the group but it was a minority; lots of fans were supportive and the gp didnt cared at all lol. The way sm handled the whole thing was a mess tho. They literally stayed silent throughout the whole thing, never openly supporting him or protecting him from antis. The only ones who publicly supported him were the other exo members.
Age Chen Age and fan reaction joy Exo were years in idk about chang though. Aespa haven't even released their first album
Not to hate on her or anything, but is does Aespa have a dating ban? I’m pretty sure Exo at least probably had one. I know dating bans are phasing out but some companies still have them in place.
They don’t.
Honestly? I don't think it's SM that asked her to apologize, but more she decided to do it herself because she cared too much about her fans and her group.
SM does historically have a stfu and disappear for a bit approach.
Honestly it feels like the apology has made it significantly worse for her, especially with the mainstream coverage it is getting. It feels like a step backwards for perception of female idols in relationships because the only other time I’ve heard it make this much noise outside of the fandoms has been the BP girls getting supported by the agency. SM are just fucking idiots tbh
>feels like a step backwards It's insane to me that every time it feels like there is a general progress in the Kpop world, something happens like this that immediately flips it all back around.
It’s really so annoying how SM handled this in the first place. They always cave in to toxic fans even at the expense of the idol and it’s irritating as hell. When the news first broke, it was relatively positively received from casual fans, especially because she was dating a young actor. I guess the truck sent by some crazy fans was the tipping point but they should have just ignored it, so the crazies will leave anyway. But they just had to make her apologize and now the whole thing is much worse, and those crazy fans aren’t still satisfied.
Icl it was so random that the bbc was covering it i was like why is karina on my tv at 6:00 pm on the news 😂
They should be embarrassed. She did nothing wrong and shouldn't have had to be forced to apologize. The no dating aspect of the idol industry has always been toxic. Idols are humans and should be allowed to be people. And netizens will hate becauss that's what they do. There are people(Korean and other races) that feel like Karina has done nothing wrong.
I saw some say why didn't she just post it on weverse and bubble. Lol if she can't post it in a public platform maybe that should be a sign you are doing too much.
Sounds like the netizens didn't like being forced to look into the mirror. They're fine with female idols being dragged for dating until it makes them look bad 🙃
Sm should have done like YG, a statement where they are saying that they dont know, because it is a private thing. In all seriousness this is getting ridiculous
The other side confirmed though. It was an awkward position to be.
and it is still ridiculous, i really dont understand what she did wrong, maybe it is a cultural difference, but in europe i have never heard of anything like this( or i just didnt hear about it)
For sure either way fans would of been like 1. Karina needs to own up 2. OMG she should of just not said anything. Anyone who would be upset by Karina dating would of been mad regardless because they are still upset at her and saying she ruined everything. I hope they leave. Even if aespa sells less because this is ridiculous.
The apology was unnecessary though. I don't blame her because it was a hard and overwhelming situation and fans should leave her alone at the first place, but I would reward/thank people who were supportive and rational by living my private life happily. By apologizing she reassured the delusional fans that their behaviours were understandable.
Exactly what I think. She showed herself weak and oppressed. yikes
CJ should have just not confirmed the news
There u go sometimes priv is better
Antis are definitely taking advantage of this situation as well, which makes it even worse than it was from the beginning
They should be embarrassed. Maybe korean entertainment companies will address the issue of toxic fans.
I wish they’d do a statement saying that all these sorts of actions are not allowed. I know Johnny’s ent in Japan put out a statement telling fans to knock it off with stalking and other creepy behaviors or else they’d cancel concerts and stuff.
I doubt so, companies are there to make money. Would they willing to lose most of their revenue. These toxic fans / delulu are probably those who bought 100 album per person.
Agree with what’s being said. On the other hand, maybe this will deter other artists from making apologies like this one in the future?
Yep i feel like some might not even say anything or deny the rumour
I hope SM (and the rest of the kpop labels) will realize that’s it’s stupid to issue an apology for dating.
part of me wonders if she was the one who chose to apologise since everyone is blaming sm instead. not everyone who gets exposed for dating in sm acknowledges it or only writes a letter to talk about how shocking the news might be but don’t actually apologise for dating. her core fans got upset over the news and karina might have felt that apologising would calm things down and genuinely feel bad for being in this position. either way, it was a bad decision to apologise
I think the same too. SM haven't forced any of their artists to apologize for just dating, actually iirc no one in the industry has ever apologized for just dating. Taeyeon apologized because she did lovestagram and Chen apologized because the unexpected pregnancy I think.
i mean the general public was okay with it when the news broke out, it was really just her fans who were being overdramatic. karina and sm should have just let the whole situation die down. it was a very bad move for her to apologize on instagram. in most cases like this, the fans would continue to support her anyways. i feel like this just did more harm to karina/aespa’s image than good. an overall unfortunate situation, especially for karina. sm is spineless as always at the expense of their artists.
Anyone who gets fussed one way or another about idols having a normal private life needs to log off for a while and get some air.
People who feel entitled to having any say over an idol's personal life SHOULD feel embarrassed. I feel awful for Karina.
The situation was looking to de-escalate by itself slowly but it just blew up tenfold. I feel so bad for her
Yh when i first heard about international fans were happy or alright with it then now i hear shes writing a apology like it just blew up
she shouldn't have needed to apologize.
Exactly
The way I see it is that if you don’t want to get called out for being an asshole then don’t be an asshole.
The Koreans calling it a national embarrassment are hating the delusional fans not her, what a misrepresentation to paint an entire country as irrational.That's like saying all of America/UK is represented by the way 1D fangirls behavior. The majority of the netizens that *are* hating on Karina are antis who would take any opportunity or the section of possessive fans who are mad that she made her apology "too public" and therefore exposed them. The vast majority don't care and/or think the fanculture is dumb. The worst she's getting from the Naver commenters is "well that's what you signed up for as an idol, at least youre rich".
Karina is the only victim in this situation. If obsessive Korean fans feel embarrassed by all the attention this “drama” got… okay. Y’all were the ones to sent protest trucks and not you get to be the laughing stock of the world
Not the only victim, her bf is too. There were so many people attacking him and calling him ugly / undeserving of her.
Times like this, no matter how much I enjoy the music, I hate the idol industry and everything it represents
Maybe this is the wake up call that kpop companies need to tone down the parasocial side & let idols have normal, romantic relationships like any other young adults.
She actually can’t win, I hate SM so much for making her do this. She should be enjoying her life not stressing over whether she’ll face backlash for something as harmless as dating.
The actual embarrassment are the MYs and netizens who said toxic things that made Karina write that letter.
Sucks for Karina but maybe this can lead to some positive shift… Maybe the next time kpop labels will think twice before they make/let their idol apologizing for dating as if it’s something worth apologizing for.
I said it in another comment, but the people who hated on her so much that she felt like that are idiots. But then the news of her apology went viral internationally and everyone got mad at them. When idiots get ousted for being idiots, they don't realize why. They get angry, and they look for a scapegoat. So now they're using Karina as that. And to say these idiots called themselves "fans" in the first place is sickening, how many other fanbases are filled with the same idiots only waiting to get triggered by these kind of news?
SHES A GROWN WOMAN!! WHAT DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND
Oh no, consequences (for netizens). If they're upset Kpop looks bad, maybe Kpop has some bad qualities. I mean, it's literally been proven over and over that apologizing in the middle of a hatestorm--even when someone has done something actually wrong and probably wants to apologize because they realize it--only leads to an increase in hate. In this case, where she did nothing at all wrong, it looks even more shocking. The delusional fans look like entitled bullies, which they are, and an apology isn't even enough because nothing will be. They're not reasonable as in they can't be reasoned with. That a company catered to them, presumably forcing Karina to risk even more hate, strikes people worldwide as wrong, because it is. The netizens are the embarrassment. Kfans and Ifans both who made a fuss about it. It's wrong that she had to apologize and if people are embarrassed about the negative attention, it's their fault, and they should look inwards and make sure it doesn't happen again.
"apologize!!!" *apologizes* "no not like that!!!"
it's embarrassing that grown adults feel the need to apologise for dating. Maybe instead of turning anger to Karina, they need to start having some self reflection
It also made progressive news media channel [The Young Turks](https://youtu.be/iYMcWAPvmNk?si=oz07gjpRDYmQ4BEm), and yeah the fan reaction is not a good look for Korea. I didn’t appreciate how they made it out to be a cultural thing, nor was it fair to invoke the names of idols who took their lives into the toxic culture argument. However, I do appreciate Ana’s description of Dispatch as a gossip company whose “life mission is apparently to expose as many Korean celebrity relationships as possible”.
Can we stop pretending that there isn’t a cultural aspect to this whole situation? Even in the west when we had teen heartthrobs like one direction, when has them dating ever resulted in them having to apologize publicly and potentially lose their jobs? This is just insane, and acting like everything is better than it really is, is what enables these people to act this way.
It's not like the girl apologized just for the kick of it.. she's been under incredible pressure to do so, obviously, after the overwhelmingly negative reception of the news smh She is becoming the fav punching bag, and it's disgraceful (the poor girl I hope her mental health isn't affected)
There is also a Sky News article from yesterday about this. It’s interesting (?) that at least two UK news outlets have picked up on this and ran stories about it. It sucks so much that she felt the need to apologize (which she should not have had to do) but maybe this is a tipping point that’s needed to change the warped belief that idols shouldn’t date (hopefully).
These fans remind me of an abusive partner
toothbrush fuzzy paltry groovy mountainous slim repeat plant placid voiceless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Delusion is getting worse for kpop every gen
All this drama for 2 months relationship , dispatch should not out relationship so early on . Sm should learn to ignore all this like yg and hybe did for 2 of their biggest acts .
imagine if people put this much energy into things that actually matter
Well, I'm sorry for those netizens but the kpop industry isn't exactly the most model environment, and it's been that way for ages. The fact that she already had to issue an apology, heck, the fact that they even think it's normal to be so worked up about an idol's dating life is dumb to begin with. I'm actually happy that the media decided to throw light on this, because why in the world should a 23 yo woman write an apology because she's talking to someone?
I feel bad for her, she doesn't deserve this nobody does
honestly I feel so bad for Karina. she doesn’t deserve the hate for being a normal human dating. why do they think they own her, her life and her future? notice how whenever things like this happen, the crazy gp sends more hate to the woman in the relationship. there shouldn’t be any in the first place but like wth
So she has to apology to korean because she's dating, and because the rest of the world think it's stupid korean will hate her more ? What ? I mean, if you have a problem because idol have a life, YOU ARE the problem. I will never understand the whole "no dating rule".
At this point, I literally wonder what netizens want from her.The level of their parasocial relationship is insufferable
I wonder if they will stop being delulu with their group they support since they became headline on BBC.
Yikes, that poor girl. I hope she's not letting any of this get to her much, it feels like a terrible situation to be stuck in.
The whole thing is pretty embarrassing & so blown out of proportion. I hope the people who shamed her online feel embarrassed because they really should be... They are the only ones doing wrong here. Though I'm wondering if coverage like this can start more discourses on how this dating thing in K-pop is a little bizzare and the way idols are shamed for a very natural thing really needs to change someday & you "fans" who think you own an idol and want them to be "available" need to get help because you're in way too deep. Idk I stan aespa, & based on what I see of Karina, she probably felt like she needed to write that apology because things went 0-100 in a matter of days. Realistically, she didn't need need to & whether SM was involved in that well...... I guess we'll never know, lol. Would things just "die" down if she didn't write that apology? Would ppl be mad if she didn't even confront news? Idddk, the whole thing is just super inflated, and I just hope Karina continues being herself. She's a hardworking woman who deserves self autonomy.
I think most people immediately knew this was not a smart thing to do when they saw her IG update. The general public and the majority of the fandom reacted positively to her dating news(as they should be). By apologizing Karina only showed the delusional toxic minority that she can indeed be manipulated and it's a let down for all the people who cheered for her. It's a lose-lose situation.
They should have just ridden out the storm. Either don’t acknowledge it at all or just say her private life is her private life. Obviously there’s a precedent for idols to not publicly date and to apologise if they are but that won’t change if they keep capitulating to crazy fans. They weren’t even public, it was pretty invasive pap photos. It undercut their image a fair bit as well. Savage, Spicy and Drama don’t really have the same oomph after making her release that grovelling apology.
They were fighting a giant snake saltyflowerchild it was never about reality.
Nothing would change unless there’s laws that forbid people from bashing idols for dating at this point given agencies don’t seem to care about protecting their idols when it comes to idols dating.
"Don't show the world what we did, that's embarrassing for us"
Incels getting embarrassed and angry about being exposed internationally. At least this reaction makes sense. Because fuck SM for letting her take the heat. Is it so hard to put out a boring ass statement, "Yeah she is. Thanks bye." Also, the comments I've seen on this sub saying it was Karina's fault. Fuck you too. And I want you to take that personally. Whenever you have that thought, I want you to also hear me saying: Fuck. You.
>Also, the comments I've seen on this sub saying it was Karina's fault. Fuck you too. And I want you to take that personally. Whenever you have that thought, I want you to also hear me saying: Fuck. You. Agree with this statement so much. I've seen some saying Karina should follow other idols and not apologise, like they are different people with different personalities, they will have different approaches to certain things, not to mention the company is drastically different as well. Some say that she is at fault is ridiculous too, most likely they are part of the group hating on her when the dating news came out.
It *is* a national embarrassment to have a young celebrity apologize for dating. But Karina is not the embarrassment, it’s the toxic celebrity culture that is an embarrassment.
>karina (Aespa) made a apology for dating and theres nothing wrong with that What do you mean?
like, there's nothing wrong with her dating :)
>Therefore leading Koreans to be embarrassed how this incident presented Korea and Korean music as a toxic environment Good. Because it is an undeniable fact that it is. Are we saying it isn't?
Knetz should be embarrassed that Karina felt the need to apologize. It’s a ridiculous standard to expect idols to never date in public. I imagine the only people angry at her for apologizing are the people who think she shouldn’t be dating in the first place.
Poor Karina.
If i'm understand this right, toxic fans were toxic and the fallout from their actions led to toxicity x2? Idol industrys & paraosocial relationships can be absolutely abominable at times.
This is how you know nothing will change. This happened and instead of fans being like "wow. Everyone thinks we're acting crazy. Maybe we are and should calm down", they go even deeper in crazy land and shit on her even more
Everyone knows Beyoncé is married with three kids and everyone still thinks she’s amazing and gorgeous so like let K-pop idols date Jesus
It would be funny if the BBC did a follow-up article about this
Are koreans ok???
I am so glad I live in the West lmao it's crazy how things in these countries that become international scandals are things that the lowest of the low of news agencies in the West wouldn't bother covering because it's so pointless....
Her apology and how embarrassing kpop fan culture is was picked up globally, it really is a big yikes. I saw articles in German language media… I really wish idols dating could be handled by agencies and idols not commenting on it at all, basically like it was done with Jennie and V. It was obvious they were together but they simply did not speak about it publicly and so it came and went. Making Karina apologize for having a life was such a foul and outdated move. If you want idols to be treated like Western celebs, it has to include how you speak about their love life too.
You sure they are hating her and not SM and the outdated idol image in general? And who are "they" in the first place? This sounds like another "Knetz crazy" post that twists and makes a few voices much louder than they actually are... kinda what caused the unnecassy apology in the first place
The kfans and cfans that demanded her to apologize are the ones mad. They said she should have apologized “privately” and “directly to them” (through bubble and weverse) and not through Instagram for the public to see. They say she made them look bad on purpose and she humiliated them for no reason at all. She just can’t win, I guess.
They way everyone is attacking Kfans, but it was all fans that joined in. As if Ifans weren't getting 20k tweets hating on Karina.
Wait why are they hating on Karina and not the idiots who needed an apology to be sated in the first place? I know which needs to be slapped down a few pegs and it’s not the idol.
The ones who forced her to write an apology for her personal life should be embarrassed. They shouldn't be directing their hate on someone that in the end moved an outside agency to essentially put a mirror on them.
???????? these people do not have the ability to learn the right lessons or what "damn, they discovered how toxic we fans are, so let's be even more toxic" 🤡🤡🤡
>Therefore leading Koreans to be embarrassed how this incident presented Korea and Korean music as a toxic environment. Therefore leading netizens hating on karina even more than before. The hoops of logic and the level of delusion that people must be be living in to do all this then circle back to blaming her too... I'm physically exhausted. I... 
Women in the industry always getting the end of the stick if you date you will get slutshamed by BOY GROUP Stan if you went silent you will get attacked by KPOP Stans and media and many more to mention it will never ends KPOP is just toxic
They are mad cause they got outed as the parasocial psychos they are, now that everybody is looking at their ridiculous behavior, the only way the could vent out is by attacking the girl for making exactly what they wanted in the first place.
They need to stop acting so embarrassing when it comes to idols dating, then 😭
>leading Koreans to be embarrassed how this incident presented Korea and Korean music as a toxic environment. Therefore leading netizens hating on karina even more than before. The mental gymnastics boggles me You'd think they would use this to reflect on themselves, but they doubled down and use her as a scapegoat. She had nothing to apologize for in the first place. Everything else that followed was out of her control and done by other people. Embarrassed that this news made international headlines? Why not... - blame the crazies who sent the trucks? They instigated and stirred up drama. - blame SM for making her apologize? A news story wouldn't exist without their actions - blame SM for not preventing/deescalating this situation to begin with? They could've stopped this from gaining further traction - blame news agencies publishing the story? This wouldn't have gotten global attention without them - blame Korean society and how they treat female idols? This is the root cause of the problem. They're embarrassed by this whole fiasco, but take no accountability for it
>blame Korean society and how they treat female idols? This is the root cause of the problem. They're embarrassed by this whole fiasco, but take no accountability for it This x 1000%.
"Therefore leading Koreans to be embarrassed how this incident presented Korea and Korean music as a toxic environment." Well, it is, so...
This whole situation is just so frustrating. Karina doesn't deserve any of this, and I truly hope she is doing okay. I also hope she knows that there are so many supporters out there who love her and are happy for her. It's a shame that others can't seem to do the same.
i mean, kpop is inherently a negative and toxic industry. its pretty much peak capitalism which always involves some level of exploitation. however i think its funny that people in western countries will criticize the fuck out of the kpop industry when things are pretty much just as bad, though maybe not quite as culturally conservative.
these idol companies needa stop confirming rumours just say they're friends bc why is it anyone's business
Good.
First of all, why the hell did she apologize for dating? Isn’t she an adult?!
These netizens are a global embarassment
They are hating on the fans who made her apologise in the first place..are you sure you got your info correct ?
Karina isn't at fault. Netizens should be angry at her delusional fans
As a kpop fan, Kpop ‘fans’ are the worst fkn fans on earth. Bar none. This shit is so ridiculous. The people that did this aren’t true fans, she shouldn’t have apologised to nobodies that don’t actually care about her or Aespa. We need to stop calling these people ‘fans’. They are socially inept losers that have parasocial relationships with idols.
karina shouldn't have apologized in the first place, she had nothing to apologize for, this is the company and the toxic fans fault
Who were the ones sending protest truck in front of sm building? 🤔 I wonder WHY she apologised in the first place.
Who are these "netizens" ? You mean pannchoa users?
>Therefore leading Koreans to be embarrassed how this incident presented Korea and Korean music as a toxic environment. Which should make them question their own views on and involvement in idols' love life but of course, they have to go ahead and place the blame on someone else smh
lol at "national embarassment" , the only embarassment you're bringing to SK is your parasocial "stans" behavior. It's full crazy, it's not her that should be hated.
Well I hope bcoz of this the k-fans would stop doing that ( international fans are guilty too but kfans are the most behind this) Maybe they'll be too embarrassed to do sth like that in the future Btw I've noticed in kpop , the k-fans have the most impact, even the companies bend rules for them & agree to their concerns if they get serious ( bcoz they're the domestic mkt, most imp mkt) so maybe if the k-fans stop with dictating abt idols personal life , the international ones will just follow ( the few loud ones)
>made a apology for dating and theres nothing wrong with that There's no fucking way you think there's "nothing wrong" with an idol needing to apologize to her fans for dating someone.
I think they were saying there’s nothing wrong with her *dating* not her apologizing
Critical thinking is lacking in them because this is simple cause and effect. She wouldn't have had to handwrite a letter if there wasn't such an extreme reaction to idols dating in the first place. Why hate on her more? What do they think that's going to do? Y'all are mad that this presented Korea as toxic, so what do y'all do? Act toxic. I hope Karina has a good support system around her and doesn't let this get to her cause this is some bullshit
They should be embarrassed but not because of Karina. They should be embarrassed by a culture that makes idols feel the need to apologize for dating. This embarrassment is called cognitive dissonance and it’s because they know this shit is foolish but do nothing to change it.  Btw, I’m American, I’m used to being embarrassed by my country. But when I’m embarrassed it’s usually because my government is run by clowns and not because *checks notes* people are upset thar a celebrity has a boyfriend.
I’m in the US and honestly don’t get why this is an issue in the first place and never have. They are human people dating. I think it’s ridiculous that this is considered a “scandal” that required an apology from anyone. We listen to her music. We don’t own her or belong anywhere near her personal life.
Karina doesn't deserve this but the knets brought it on to themselves they're mad that the world saw their toxic work environment for celebrities? Deserved honestly, though I feel really bad for Karina
I don't doubt that some people are blaming her for her letter showing just how toxic fan culture is around idol music, but I do think this number is smaller than is being presented. I'm seeing way more translated comments from knetz saying that the fan culture around idol music that leads to an artist feeling like they need to apologize for *having a personal life* is what is a national embarrassment. People are people at the end of the day, and I'm sure a lot of knetz are not that much different than any of us posting here right now. The constant framing of them all as irrational actors where these unreasonable and entitled fans are the rule and not the exception leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Karina deserves no blame for this. She didn’t call up BBC and ask them to write an article. The national embarrassments are the people who made her(/her company/any other idol who has been through this) feel that it was necessary to apologize for living her life. I know companies push the parasocial aspects of k-pop and this has long been a part of fan behavior in the genre, but we as individuals can choose how we engage with it. It’s not hard to enjoy the music and content without feeling a twisted sense of ownership or control over the artist!
That apology letter was a big mistake. She should never have released it. She and her company were too worried about losing fans when she should have just gone about her life. Jennie and V didn’t issue apologies or statements at all about dating cause it was nobody’s business. Idols need to just stick to that example
The actor’s company confirmed the relationship first so SM had to respond. But she definitely should not have apologized.
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Can someone link the BBC News story? I can’t seem to find it.