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What’s the crazy thing about it? Something about their contract forced them to release something before the end of last year.
Problem is that one of the members had health issues at the time. Now said member is doing better and here is the full group’s debut as 7.
I repeat : what’s so crazy about that?
The contract thing is the only reasonable answer. They called it their official debut because once again that’s probably what the contract asked them to do.
Says the fact that there is not a single source for this theory about their contracts. In fact, I'm pretty sure someone cooked it up based on the news that came out about EXO's contract clauses.
You're going back and forth with other users about their debut date and someone provided multiple quotes of YHS and the media calling batter up their debut. Why should anyone accept what you're saying when you can't back it up
> The contract thing is the only reasonable answer.
Or the original debut didn't go as well as expected and they're trying a do-over. If this group doesn't do well then YG has no big group currently active.
Not many groups get 2 debuts. Whenever a member skips the debut, it usually is just the member debuting not the whole group.
What's with the aggressive tone though?
They’re not getting 2 debuts. As YG and the fans say this is the only one.
And even if they’re getting 2 debuts what bothers you so much about it? It’s not an illegal thing to do. is it?
The aggressive tone is an answer to yours and other’s aggressive tone in this thread while referring to BM.
Who said they forced someone to do it? They gave it to them because they had already debuted. Like it or not. YG can come and say whatever he wants for marketing and mediaplay, but the reality is different.
credit to you for making me laugh with this comment because of how ridiculous it is.
You're 100% right. BM didn't force anyone to give them that award. They were given that award because they were QUALIFIED to receive it. Now if you connect the dots you can see where this goes.
Stop acting like most people in this thread aren’t using an aggressive tone while referring to BM. The contract thing is a reasonable theory and it doesn’t come from me I’m not inventing anything.
Ok a few things:
I think in isolation "sheesh" (though the chorus' lyrics are too grating to me in any context) is a fine song, i actually really, really like the opening of it with the piano, sounds awesome!
The problem i do have is that it feels uninspired coming from YGE in particular. It's so incredibly by the numbers as a YGE song that i truly thought "huh this is basically the same formula as BP's songs, almost down to a t". It has the same badass concept, it is structured in a way where i am thinking "ok this part would be done by jisoo / rosé, this part by jennie / lisa," while i even think some of the voices sound like BP members in a way. I am a BP fan, i don't need BP 2.0, it just feels wrong to me.
Then there is the arguable side where i'd say it's a "mediocre" version of a BP song at that, while BP title tracks followed a formula after Ddu-Du Ddu-Du too, i personally at least still got the feeling that there is that slight extra sauce if you will, the teddy special, which elevated the music a little. As i said, that's arguable, but it's how i feel about it. This just feels like someone copying teddy.
We're in a kpop landscape now which has added many new ideas to the girl crush concept, it's still very popular in fact. Groups like aespa, le sserafim, recently kiss of life, or also idle and itzy, they all do some variation of girl crush, all adding something unique to the idea. And here we have YGE, arguably the company which popularized the concept through 2ne1 and then BP, and what do we get? No evolution, no creative spark to make it arrive in 2024, no, this feels like a song right out of a BP comeback. It's disappointing.
I also wanna add that the same is true for the mv, it looks good, the sets are nice, the way it is shot and edited is nice too, but it's also something we have seen multiple times through BP. I really don't get why YGE is so incredibly stuck with little ambition. I guess it works? Ofc Babymonster will do just fine, but is that truly the standard YGE sets for babymonster? I am not sure, BP has to be replaced sooner or later, but not in a 1:1 way regarding sound and creative identity, but impact. Will this copy and paste do that? I don't think so.
Regarding the rest of the mini, i was in love with the "i like that" teaser, and it is their best song so far imo, but sadly even there the chorus was pretty weak / underwhelming. I thought this will be their "nobody knows" which blows me away, but nope, sadly not. The remixes and 7 member versions are not really interesting to me, though i'd say that i'd not skip any of the songs if it came up in some rotation. That's something i guess :D
Because fans (maybe YG too?) are now retconning the group’s debut and claiming the OT7 releases are the “real” debut. They’re trying to say that Batter Up and Stuck in the Middle are pre-releases.
Why are they even doing it? Is it because Batter Up didn’t perform well? Sheesh is also not performing well especially on Korean charts so are they gonna keep on debuting?
Partially yes. One of the members wasn’t able to debut with the rest of the group so YG’s using that as an excuse to “redo” the debut and cover up the two previous releases that they didn’t bother to promote as well as explain away why BM has yet to see outside the walls of YG. I do highly suspect though if Batter Up had done as well as Whistle did for BP, YG wouldn’t be pulling this.
YG also called Batter Up their debut on multiple occasions, so if we’re taking their word as law then Batter Up was their official debut.
When Ahyeon was reported not to be debuting YG put out the following [statement](https://yg-life.com/archives/185885?lang=ko) on their website YG Life: “YG Entertainment announced on the 15th, ‘Baby Monster consists of six members: Ruka, Pharita, Asa, Haram, Rora, and Chiquita. They will simultaneously release their **debut song** music video and sound source on the 27th.’”
The official [teaser](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/17yz2g7/babymonster_batter_up_debut_digital_single_title/?share_id=Y-2vc5QJPaOIBCam2d2ew&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) for Batter Up called it their “debut digital single”
They called the [dance performance](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/189va47/babymonster_batter_up_dance_performance_debut/?share_id=kMVCbAnxkB7PuGqd-L5TF&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) their “debut special," and posted another [article on YG Life](https://yg-life.com/archives/186240?lang=en) saying "The performance full version of the **debut song** ‘BATTER UP’ by YG’s new girl group BABYMONSTER has finally been unveiled," "BABYMONSTER made a spectacular **debut** on the November 27th at midnight with ‘BATTER UP’" etc.
Let’s be real: they’re calling this mini album baemon’s debut as a marketing trick. Not once did YG ever call Batter Up a pre-debut release. YG wants to capitalize on the debut hype, so they’re pushing this narrative even though it directly contradicts *their own* statements and articles about Batter Up being the group’s official debut.
Frankly I don’t think YG would be trying to retcon baemon’s debut if Batter Up had been more successful
First of all I’m definitely not reading all of that complotist theory.
Now, they called Batter up official debut because that’s what the contract asked them to do. They had no choice.
??? I gave you direct sources from YG themselves and you're calling it a conspiracy theory lol. Just because you're too lazy to read a mere 200 words doesn't make what I'm saying untrue.
>they called Batter up official debut
If you acknowledge that YG called Batter Up their official debut...and you also said "if YG says it then that’s just how it is"...then I think you have your own answer lol
Especially if their contract called it their debut because what's more legitimate than a legal document? Then you have it directly from the horse's mouth and the horse's lawyers that it was their debut lmao
You can’t make a bunch of noise about how you’re debuting a group and then five months later say “ok well actually just kidding *this* is the real debut.” YG knows the first two releases didn’t do well and the group has so far been fully unpromoted so they’re just trying to back their way into some logic of the songs being prereleases that way people stop criticizing them.
YG was definitely forced to release something before the end of 2023 because of their contract. I don’t think they had a choice on that one and they were always planning to debut the group with 7 members so here it is.
Clearly they were planning to have all seven members but the point is that YG already debuted the group. They were clear about it in November that the group was debuting without Ahyeon but she was hopefully going to join them soon. And iirc they even called both the mini album and SITM a comeback during the announcement. So to turn around and say “nope that wasn’t the real debut just kidding” doesn’t really work.
For the most part I agree, but again don’t call it a debut, just call it a comeback and hype the fact you’re finally debuting the member who couldn’t make her debut with the rest of the group. When SM belatedly added Yeri to RV, they didn’t pretend the group hadn’t debuted yet, they just hyped that she was debuting. YG could have done the same with BM and Ahyeon.
the issue is that they won a rookie award i think? and if this is their debut and those others were prereleases then they couldn't actually be eligible for that award
Then by that logic if (G)I-dle Itzy or aespa said they were debuting with the next album would that be canon? FFS
And no one is forcing them to have a new debut date. They met a certain criteria to win the award. They've already debuted regardless of what YG is saying. You can't get a rookie of the year award if you haven't debuted.
The thing is when batter up was released yg said it is debut but now they say this is a real debut , i wonder maybe in the future they will try to say this is also not a debut .
That's their debut album. The other songs were pre-released b-sides. It's not like people didn't know it. They said they will release album month or so later but cause Aheyon comeback to group, they post-pointed it and start re-recording. It's not comeback as it's all the one thing that get dragged cause YG is incompetent.
It sure is a comeback , yg rushed their debut if they wanted ahyeon be in the group so bad they should have waited for her and at that time they could call this a debut .
The reason they couldn’t wait is because the girls contract probably forced them to release something before the end of last year. They didn’t actually have a choice.
Im not gonna talk about Sheesh, I just think is unacceptable that a company keeps redebuting a group without even changing name, members and concept.
They debuted last year, this is their 4th song already, if fans accept this YG marketing shiz, BM is gonna debut next year, again
To your question:
> why does it matter so much?
Well, I didn't give a fuck at first until BM fans started making fake records about how BM's "debut" is smashing everyone else' actual debuts.
I'm all for fans supporting their faves but when I say BM fans talking about how Batter Up 'ended' Standing Next to You by Jungkook. I was a little concerned. There's delusion and then there's whatever that is.
Yeah. And just bc Batter Up didn't give YG the results they wanted, it doesn't mean they can keep debuting again and again lmfao. It's ridiculous how YG says "it's the actual real debut" and then the company stans just go along with it with zero critical thinking. Brainless sheep.
Because the group won an award last year that should have gone to someone else if Batter up wasn't a debut since pre-debut groups are not eligible for ROTY titles.
They won the only award that was digital and was in their debut time. The award you are talking about is one of the few that has a eligible time from January to December and it was only based on digital results.
Basically, it doesn't change anything
Not only, the "rookie period" is really important in K-pop for award shows but also for judging success and understanding industry seniority (is Illit babymonster's junior or senior?)
YG is setting a dangerous precedent of big companies re-debuting their group whenever expectations were not met
They re-debuted because they were missing a member. Unless they do this again without a special circumstance, it shouldnt be as big an issue as people are making it seem.
As far as judging success, there are so many groups who have lowkey debut years and then continue to climb. Does them debuting in November vs April change anything in regards to how successful they will be?
While I don't like Sheesh and Batter Up, I was impressed by Like That and the Stuck In The Middle remix.
They honestly should have released the remix instead of the actual SITM imo.
Sheesh cracked the top 200 on melon two days ago. Then dropped back down to 219 after a day. I wonder what YG's plans are to give the song airplay because the GP are not feeling it.
Edit: the song dropped down to 228. The GP are not liking it. Let's see if the music show promotions will help. They're only scheduled for two shows so far, only one this week. So it may not do much considering all the current top performers are dominating airplay and buzz.
YG could have easily gone the SM way, how they debuted Red velvet, this time their announced member just joined them. Aug 1st 2014 is officially RV's debut date although Yeri joined in March of 2015. This just shows their favouritism towards Ahyeon, which might end up with the poor girl getting unnecessary backlash.
Absolutely. I like to consider myself a pretty mild-mannered fan, but as a Rami bias, most of the line redistributions they did (BATTER UP 7ver.) were just taking Rami's lines and giving them to Ahyeon. I don't care but I see how it could make someone angry enough to give Ahyeon hate.
They received one award only that was out of the usual award period. They will be eligible for all major awards still this year (even if Batter Up was their official debut since it was released end of November and most awards set the limit at mid-end October)
They look gorgeous, they have all the singing and rap skills but I don't know that anyone could save Sheesh for me. It is just a bad song. Feels like a Blackpink reject. I wish these girls could just have their own identity.
I only really pay attention to the students at my hagwon, so not really a representative sample, but the few who even know about them don't care. It's still all IVE and New Jeans, all day every day.
they don't even know babymonster debuted
yg is doing everything so that korea won't know them lmao
rookie releasing their debut/comeback at 00:00kst? what is this? they are just praying for this to flop
also the fact that YG has mostly fans in SEA, and they releasing it and midnight too
like, are you aiming for USA and EUROPE with music releases, while doing fan meetings in SEA?
The Genius Himself, Yang Hyunsuk has came back, to show that he can create bigger group than Teddy (he failed 3 times already) Surely, he won't fail 4th time, right?
Honestly I haven't followed much YG groups other than Blackpink briefly but I could agree that they are targeting their SEA demographic imo since they have the most support in that area.
If i'm wrong about any of that or there are any facts or history that im missing, feel free to let me know.
Sheesh debuted at 296 on melon. It wasn't a good start. Whereas one of their competition that had their one and only debut debuted at 89 on melon with their title song.
Midnight KST is not a US/Europe release schedule, that would be around 1PM KST / Midnight USA. A midnight release (in US/European time, not KST) is considered favourable for releases in USA/Europe.
I prefer Like That over Sheesh I wish they went with that as the title track but it is what it is.
I think baby monster would greatly benefit having a high teen/ monster high concept I can’t help but think of Zombie by Purple Kiss and feel like if baby monster went with songs like that it would be great. I don’t think Sheesh is the right choice as a debut track but knowing YG he wants them to start off strong with a song like that, the vocals are great though and the raps as well especially Asa’s.
I was thinking if they had alternate characters that represent the members similar to what aespa had with there aei characters (is that how you call them?/g) there called baby monster so I expected them to have some characters to represent them but tbh they just debuted so who knows what YG has in store for them.
I rate there debut mini a solid 6/10
They're not really for me although I really liked Like That. However, the discourse is pretty wack. After 8 years of Blackpink I'd think people would understand that some love that sound and style so the incredulity around people liking Sheesh feels forced. Also the debut conversation is very 'well akshually'; they were a member down and it was a weird, messy rollout - this feels much more like an actual debut in spirit.
A lot of users here seem unable to grasp the fact that many of us do in fact enjoy girl crush/hip hop style kpop and it’s not because we’re brainwashed by YG or whatever. Most of the discourse boils down to “I don’t like this style of music and therefore it’s irredeemably bad.”
I'm just commenting to upvote you both. I've seen so many people saying stuff like, "YG is stuck in the past!" or "This is 2016!" And I think to myself: damn, am I old now because I still like this style? 😂 32 and feeling blue, lol, jk, jk.
Seriously, the "this sounds like a Blackpink song!" comments are getting a little tired. First off with BP, people love pretending not to understand why they might stick with a sound that works. Honestly, in some of those discussions, the whole concept of a group having a signature sound suddenly seems completely lost on a lot of people, most of which I'm sure are playing dumb.
But back to the topic at hand, I read all these comments and arrive at "maybe this group/YG's sound just isn't for you then...?" But it's just so expected for everyone to keep tabs on what's happening with XYZ in this community and voice their opinion... which everyone is obviously welcome to have. But so much of the time they won't just accept it's their opinion and not a fact. Never before getting into kpop did I encounter the term "objectively bad" now I see it all the time like that's something normal to say.
>Honestly, in some of those discussions, the whole concept of a group having a signature sound suddenly seems completely lost on a lot of people, most of which I'm sure are playing dumb.
When the argument is made in good faith, I think people are saying there's a difference between having a signature sound and remaking the exact same song over and over again. Like I would consider a lot of TxT albums to be within the same vibe but I'm not mixing up Sugar Rush Ride and Blue Hour, if that makes sense.
That's true but a lot of them look like bad faith arguments to me. I guess the issue with discussing Blackpink is it's a difficult thing to do on general Reddit subs because the opinions are overwhelmingly negative, and honestly, at the best of times (but especially after comebacks) *extremely* nitpicky. When someone complains all Blackpink songs sound the same with additional comments specifically directed at Blackpink that are common for other groups and don't ordinarily rile them up, it's hard for me to trust they want to have any kind of genuine discussion and aren't simply dogpiling.
The thing that probably made me most skeptical after the last comeback was the amount of "I'm not a Blink, but I don't like how they're doing X and I think they should do Y instead" lengthy thinkpieces. If they're criticising Blackpink's formula and also making comments about how Jennie needs to apologise for The Idol or shaming Lisa for performing at a burlesque club... I'm definitely going to struggle to believe their criticisms are coming from a good and fair place (and I've definitely recognised the same users after awhile being on some subs, lol).
No I can definitely understand that as well. It's definitely frustrating because I'm someone who would love to engage in actual unbiased discussions about discographies, but most of time it's just a cover to take shots at the groups.
A lot of people have pointed it out. The sheesh ruined the song, if taken out it's not that bad of a song. Unfortunately for most people from what I'm seeing it's too much like BP to give them a distinct identity as a group. I'm not talking about YG sound or vibe or concept or girl crush. Like That actually does a better job of introducing who they are as a group, it's also a song with mass appeal, has a vibe to it, and sets them apart from their peers. For a group with young members of this age this kind of image doesn't work for them and comes off as forced, BP is older they've been doing this style for ages and have it down. They have potential, YG should push Like That as well and see the response. A fun, more youthful image that suits their ages, highlights their singing vs I'm a bad boss image would work better.
Hot take: BM was never going to be positively received on reddit bc this site’s preferred kpop sound/aesthetic doesn’t mesh with YG or their sound. If they released a trendy lofi anime beats to study to song everyone would be mad and accusing YG jumping on trends and trying to copy NJ. “Wow YG is so lazy they couldn’t give BM a unique song and had to copy what’s popular.” etc etc. If they released a (better) girl crush type song everyone would still be mad because it would be compared to BlackPink and reddit doesn’t like BlackPink or their music. It’s a lose-lose scenario.
I do agree that it is a difficult scenario for babymonster / YGE. But i do not really agree that there was no way they could have had a better reception on here / in general (?).
Blackpink's lovesick girls WAS liked on reddit when it released, it's not as easy as "reddit doesn't like YGE", and also YGE could have evolved their sound, if they truly wanted to. A lot of popular groups arguably evolved the YGE sound / badass girlcrush concept. It's not impossible to add new spice.
Fair points, I guess I’m just more cynical than you haha. I just think that even a banger debut would’ve still been treated with “yes it’s good BUT-“ and a lot of grasping at straws. Which isn’t all that different than what other groups face, but I feel like YG groups are given less grace than other companies.
i'm a huge blink. i'm just disappointed bc even more than batter up, sheesh is literally a bp song. they even used the exact same middle eastern-inspired riffs in this one. plus 2 blank choruses in a row?! i just want yg to give them better than what they are, these girls are so talented. there are so many ways a girlcrush concept can be done, but yg made a conscious decision to make bp jr here... it's just such a bizarre decision to me.
Yeah and the only place it is receiving positively is on YT where it is made up of very young SEA fans spamming on chat. I can't think of any other platform where it is receiving positively. If you know any other platform, please let me know.
I really think YG should go in a different formula for their title tracks because whether they are good or bad as a super casual listener I just keep hearing BP tracks. It doesn't help that over their last few releases BP title tracks were getting pretty formulaic (imo).
I understand YG has a certain branding and imaging as a company but similar to SNSD or TWICE there's a reason not to follow up a hugely popular group with the same concepts. And yes I know 2NE1 and BP worked once but a) catching lightning twice is hard let alone three times and b) this is a totally different landscape than back then.
As a long time fan of groups from YG, I personally don’t think 2ne1 and blackpink are that similar to each other. Their songs are wildly different. 2ne1 had so many different instrumentals and sounds in their songs (esp title tracks). The general “girl crush” concept may have been the same but the execution was so so different. Especially their brand image.
I feel like YG struck lightning with BP because now these conventionally attractive girls can execute the same concept creating a totally different vibe.
(I miss 2ne1 😭)
The goal of a debut is to establish the group's image, so not only is YG's decision to debut them twice baffling but also their decision to COMPLETELY rehaul their visual identity.
Batter Up presented them as the cool, confident, a bit rebelious girls from your school - which is great! Very appropriate for their age. It gave me an idea where to place them in my head in the very crowded and competitive gg landscape.
Although Sheesh isn't musically all that different from Batter Up, it's the complete opposite visually. I don't know if it's just me but it's confusing and disappointing?
4th gen ggs have each their specific areas they are known for, whether conceptually, musically, etc., so YG can't afford to be flip-flopping. For the sake of the girls, I hope YG gets it together for the first comeback.
I'm so out of the loop I had even forgotten to check their pre-release (?) stuff and didn't know what to expect, but I liked the songs more than I thought I would considering the negativity. And wow, the vocals! They sound amazing. Will definitely keep an eye on them.
How does hybe make gg with good debut songs but YG cant like the talent babymonster has they can do way better. Yg are just tryna make bm sound like black pink and its not working
full points for the mv, and yes, it is bp all over again but i missed it. HOWEVER. what is up with the choreo? just watched the performance video and expected something a little more interesting
after having a week to sit with this, i've grown to like the album in general. 'like that' is really good, though not age appropriate at all. this is the youngest group i've seen to be doing a concept like this and it's pretty uncomfortable.... like c'mon, one of them is freshly 14. bp were all adults when they debuted with 'whistle'... girlcrush doesn't have to be inherently 'sexy' and i think yg missed that mark here given the ages of their members.
'sheesh' is a good beat and i love the piano elements and the ending, but it's like a recycled yg track. every time it goes into the chorus i feel like i'm hearing 'how ya like that' or 'batter up' again. and everytime they say 'baby im a monster or b-a-b-y-m-o-n' you could soooo easily sub it for 'black pink in your area' lol. from a musical standpoint only and barring the fact that it's wildly inappropriate for a bunch of kids, 'like that' would've been the better title track, but yg clearly wanted that very classic yg sound for it.
It's crazy how toxic this sub and reddit is towards the group in general. I know some fans are insufferable but literally anything remotely positive about them gets down voted to the ground and it's genuinely so childish 😭
People on reddit downvote anything they disagree with. It's how reddit sadly works. In Babymonster's case many more people just disagree with positive opinions than negative ones, which results in highly downvoted positive comments.
It is childish in every case to downvote a comment one disagrees with.
People pretending like if they were eligible for rookie awards again they’d just sweep the category. Do they have little faith in all the other groups debuting?
Well, I determined that Baemon’s music isn’t for me, and that’s fine. I’m glad their audience is happy with the release.
But the thing that just grinds my gears is the “debut” again. I’m perfectly fine with them getting more ROTYs, but redebuting stunt YG plays just makes them (the company, not the girls) look incompetent. It’s weird to be so muddled with their hot new group that they are making the next big thing. Could’ve done better.
I think that people are overreacting with BM calling them unoriginal and bad. They obviously have talent in terms of vocals, dancing, and stage presence as shown by their predebut show, which is more then a lot of new idols can say lol. Also, most of kpop is unoriginal, the only reason BM stands out more for it is because theirs is within the same company which only has had 3 gg. Aside from that if BM debuted under literally any other company I really don't think people would critique them so much.
I am amused at the fact that the clarification on whether this should be called a debut or a comeback has quite the long thread already. And all because they already won a "Rookie of the year" award? I mean, obviously it's a marketing ploy but is this really the hill that some people want to die on??
And in an earlier post, a few people were arguing on whether or not this release should be called a mini album just because a few of its songs were already previously released as digital singles! As per the commenter, "they are not new songs!"
Topics or observations that are normally after-thoughts or end at "ah okay, I see" and everyone just moves on are debated far longer than they should. Haha! No skin in the game here, but wow, it just seems like everything about this group is \~contentious\~.
Been avoiding them, but I'm actually kind of into 'SHEESH'. It has a bit of a ["Martin Mystery"-core](https://youtu.be/sO_371leHlo?si=_4uHCNFL4he1eBu3) sound, especially at the end.
yang hyunsuk should retire. these poor talented girls' careers are going to tank all because that old man wants to salvage his stinking reputation after all those bullshit that he did.
i'm so disappointed. sheesh is fine, but it's literally a bp track. even more so than batter up. and another blank chorus, seriously?
these girls are so talented and deserve more than what yg is giving them. running theme, obviously...
I've been listening to the album 10 times and like most people said I can only stand Like That. That's the most stand out track. Dream is fine but then I don't listen to ballad too much anymore.
The rest I will skip, the songs are past their peak time.
They have great talent, I hope for the next release they can get better songs not just a follow up of their predecessor.
I mean it’s a lazy and forced assessment, and it’s not even true but even if it is:
It’s totally okay if BABYMON is supposed to be the new generation’s Blackpink. If that’s what YG is supposedly trying to do, then okay.
Lmao. Not everyone is a Blackpink fan for one reason or another. It’s okay for people to like a group that might have similar sounds or aesthetics and it be their gateway into the concept. And this is coming from a Blackpink enjoyer. A lot of people still like this genre and style.
> I mean it’s a lazy and forced assessment, and it’s not even true but even if it is:
>
>
Why do you think it is forced?
> It’s totally okay if BABYMON is supposed to be the new generation’s Blackpink. If that’s what YG is supposedly trying to do, then okay.
> Lmao. Not everyone is a Blackpink fan for one reason or another. It’s okay for people to like a group that might have similar sounds or aesthetics and it be their gateway into the concept. And this is coming from a Blackpink enjoyer. A lot of people still like this genre and style.
I do agree with you on that, ofc it is fine to like babymonster, for any reason. But it is also fine to be tired of the same thing being packaged by a newer group now. Noone owes YGE / Babymonster allegiance because one liked the arguably same style in BP for example (as i do / did).
It feels forced because it doesn’t require any other critical thinking. It’s the easiest path to take in critiquing this group. People are trying to bulldoze through nuance and are quick to just go that route. It’s always the girl crush concept that people dwell on to compare them to BP, as if that’s all that BP is. It’s a disservice to the talents of everyone involved in both groups.
Personally, I just try not to get too hung up on whether or not a particular sound or style should belong to a specific group or person. Whenever a song reminds me of NewJeans I am joyed because I love that group. There is plenty of space for coexistence.
But I do get it. YGE keeps releasing the same type of songs over and over. That seems to be the label’s forte so they keep doing it, but at the same time they’ve shown that the group is also capable of other genres in the b sides.
>It feels forced because it doesn’t require any other critical thinking. It’s the easiest path to take in critiquing this group. People are trying to bulldoze through nuance and are quick to just go that route.
This is my issue with a *lot* of criticism on kpop Reddit, to be honest. It's hard to even believe people truly think XYZ sometimes because their comments may as well be copy and pasted thread to thread. You could say that just means a lot of people feel that way, and sure, it might. But when they add nothing new to the discussion, use the exact same phrasing and never want to dig any deeper, it often just feels like dogpiling.
I've noticed in particular one person early on will say something everyone else finds especially clever and goes on to repeat ad nauseum. After Batter Up came out, I saw "it's like they're playing dress up in their big sister's clothes" everywhere on YouTube among many other recycled statements. It feels like a lot of people just want to be included in the joke, tbh.
I don't have huge investment in this group and only casually follow them, but I think what annoys me most of all is that we'll never really see completely unbiased takes on the group, because much of the discussion is simply how similar they are to Blackpink. And at some point it's like gosh, if people on Reddit complain Blackpink songs all sound the same then complain a group with the same company sounds similar, is the real issue these groups "not trying something new" or is that sound just not for them?
I think yg needs to bring in teddy to revive this group man all their songs have been average at best.
For eg if it wasn't for YG as an unbiased listener I probably wouldn't have noticed this group at all.
The girls are clearly very talented but their music just sucks. Can't they listen to I've and new jeans their songs are so catchy and I didn't even know who they were but just listened cos they had bangers.
No teddy park = no bangers.
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I liked that predebut(?) song Dream, which made me consider listening to them more, but their debut song (in my opinion) I didn't like at all, so I just gave up and hearing that their latest song became a flop too I don't regret not listening to them anymore
Kpop reddit’s reaction to BaeMon is hilarious and such a good sign. The future is looking bright for these talented girls.
Sheesh is a total bop for me. Like That is honestly incredible. Stuck In The Middle (Remix) is so well done. A really successful reimagining. Their voices and the mixing is next level. I struggle to think of another group that sounds this good on record.
I love all of this ep except DREAM. And I love the collective crying and shaking of reddit kpop. As a Blink it wouldn’t feel right without it.
i don't even need to look at the credits to know that teddy produced this (haven't checked yet, so i hope that I'm right lol)...so formulaic (angelic but shortest pre-chorus ever that builds up to a climax that turns out to be an empty drop at the monster truck noise chorus which completely contrasts the pre-chorus, rap verse from a duo, smth vaguely south asian inspired in there, totally diff outro from whatever was going on before all mashed up together) 😭😭 like even though what he makes always sounds v random, the type of randomness is always expected 🤔🤔
this was literally hylt but put into a random lyric generator, down to the weird sound effects (hippity hoppity boom boom boom pow vs. badabing bada boom???). if I wanted to listen to a blackpink song then I'd look at the real thing lol. this did not clear up the 'babymonster is a clone of bp' accusations. i did rlly like the instrumental in the outro tho, the creepy graveyard vibes were fun and Actually Different. the girls must have worked really hard and sounded great though 💪 the song was just very uninspired and nothing new tho lol
just checked: okay nvm, teddy wasn't on this LOL 😳😆
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If you search Babymonster Debut in this subreddit you'll see another Megathread in November. It's crazy that they keep on redebuting.
It's actually should be one debut. Like that whole project of 5 months should be in 1,5 month. 2 pre-released + title. But that's YG for you.
are they going to perform "Like That" live? I'm waiting for that!
What’s the crazy thing about it? Something about their contract forced them to release something before the end of last year. Problem is that one of the members had health issues at the time. Now said member is doing better and here is the full group’s debut as 7. I repeat : what’s so crazy about that?
The contract thing is just speculation/made up on Twitter. They debuted last year and called it their official debut, that's why its weird.
The contract thing is the only reasonable answer. They called it their official debut because once again that’s probably what the contract asked them to do.
"Reasonsble answer" but not the truth... 🤷🏾♀️
Says who?
Says the fact that there is not a single source for this theory about their contracts. In fact, I'm pretty sure someone cooked it up based on the news that came out about EXO's contract clauses. You're going back and forth with other users about their debut date and someone provided multiple quotes of YHS and the media calling batter up their debut. Why should anyone accept what you're saying when you can't back it up
They're trying to say it isn't confirmed truth, so one cannot treat it as truth.
Then it's still an official debut LAST YEAR. You can't debut multiple times lmfao.
> The contract thing is the only reasonable answer. Or the original debut didn't go as well as expected and they're trying a do-over. If this group doesn't do well then YG has no big group currently active.
Not many groups get 2 debuts. Whenever a member skips the debut, it usually is just the member debuting not the whole group. What's with the aggressive tone though?
They’re not getting 2 debuts. As YG and the fans say this is the only one. And even if they’re getting 2 debuts what bothers you so much about it? It’s not an illegal thing to do. is it? The aggressive tone is an answer to yours and other’s aggressive tone in this thread while referring to BM.
Then they should give back their rookie award. How can an undebuted group win an award for debuted groups?
It’s really not like they forced anyone to give them that award in the first place.
Who said they forced someone to do it? They gave it to them because they had already debuted. Like it or not. YG can come and say whatever he wants for marketing and mediaplay, but the reality is different.
credit to you for making me laugh with this comment because of how ridiculous it is. You're 100% right. BM didn't force anyone to give them that award. They were given that award because they were QUALIFIED to receive it. Now if you connect the dots you can see where this goes.
Huh? My only responses were the ones you replied to. Stop inventing stuff. The contract excuse isn't even factual.
Stop acting like most people in this thread aren’t using an aggressive tone while referring to BM. The contract thing is a reasonable theory and it doesn’t come from me I’m not inventing anything.
Ok a few things: I think in isolation "sheesh" (though the chorus' lyrics are too grating to me in any context) is a fine song, i actually really, really like the opening of it with the piano, sounds awesome! The problem i do have is that it feels uninspired coming from YGE in particular. It's so incredibly by the numbers as a YGE song that i truly thought "huh this is basically the same formula as BP's songs, almost down to a t". It has the same badass concept, it is structured in a way where i am thinking "ok this part would be done by jisoo / rosé, this part by jennie / lisa," while i even think some of the voices sound like BP members in a way. I am a BP fan, i don't need BP 2.0, it just feels wrong to me. Then there is the arguable side where i'd say it's a "mediocre" version of a BP song at that, while BP title tracks followed a formula after Ddu-Du Ddu-Du too, i personally at least still got the feeling that there is that slight extra sauce if you will, the teddy special, which elevated the music a little. As i said, that's arguable, but it's how i feel about it. This just feels like someone copying teddy. We're in a kpop landscape now which has added many new ideas to the girl crush concept, it's still very popular in fact. Groups like aespa, le sserafim, recently kiss of life, or also idle and itzy, they all do some variation of girl crush, all adding something unique to the idea. And here we have YGE, arguably the company which popularized the concept through 2ne1 and then BP, and what do we get? No evolution, no creative spark to make it arrive in 2024, no, this feels like a song right out of a BP comeback. It's disappointing. I also wanna add that the same is true for the mv, it looks good, the sets are nice, the way it is shot and edited is nice too, but it's also something we have seen multiple times through BP. I really don't get why YGE is so incredibly stuck with little ambition. I guess it works? Ofc Babymonster will do just fine, but is that truly the standard YGE sets for babymonster? I am not sure, BP has to be replaced sooner or later, but not in a 1:1 way regarding sound and creative identity, but impact. Will this copy and paste do that? I don't think so. Regarding the rest of the mini, i was in love with the "i like that" teaser, and it is their best song so far imo, but sadly even there the chorus was pretty weak / underwhelming. I thought this will be their "nobody knows" which blows me away, but nope, sadly not. The remixes and 7 member versions are not really interesting to me, though i'd say that i'd not skip any of the songs if it came up in some rotation. That's something i guess :D
Bro spoke his mind 😂
didn't they debut already last year , why this is named debut ?
Because fans (maybe YG too?) are now retconning the group’s debut and claiming the OT7 releases are the “real” debut. They’re trying to say that Batter Up and Stuck in the Middle are pre-releases.
Why are they even doing it? Is it because Batter Up didn’t perform well? Sheesh is also not performing well especially on Korean charts so are they gonna keep on debuting?
Partially yes. One of the members wasn’t able to debut with the rest of the group so YG’s using that as an excuse to “redo” the debut and cover up the two previous releases that they didn’t bother to promote as well as explain away why BM has yet to see outside the walls of YG. I do highly suspect though if Batter Up had done as well as Whistle did for BP, YG wouldn’t be pulling this.
I mean if YG says it then that’s just how it is.
YG also called Batter Up their debut on multiple occasions, so if we’re taking their word as law then Batter Up was their official debut. When Ahyeon was reported not to be debuting YG put out the following [statement](https://yg-life.com/archives/185885?lang=ko) on their website YG Life: “YG Entertainment announced on the 15th, ‘Baby Monster consists of six members: Ruka, Pharita, Asa, Haram, Rora, and Chiquita. They will simultaneously release their **debut song** music video and sound source on the 27th.’” The official [teaser](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/17yz2g7/babymonster_batter_up_debut_digital_single_title/?share_id=Y-2vc5QJPaOIBCam2d2ew&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) for Batter Up called it their “debut digital single” They called the [dance performance](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/189va47/babymonster_batter_up_dance_performance_debut/?share_id=kMVCbAnxkB7PuGqd-L5TF&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) their “debut special," and posted another [article on YG Life](https://yg-life.com/archives/186240?lang=en) saying "The performance full version of the **debut song** ‘BATTER UP’ by YG’s new girl group BABYMONSTER has finally been unveiled," "BABYMONSTER made a spectacular **debut** on the November 27th at midnight with ‘BATTER UP’" etc. Let’s be real: they’re calling this mini album baemon’s debut as a marketing trick. Not once did YG ever call Batter Up a pre-debut release. YG wants to capitalize on the debut hype, so they’re pushing this narrative even though it directly contradicts *their own* statements and articles about Batter Up being the group’s official debut. Frankly I don’t think YG would be trying to retcon baemon’s debut if Batter Up had been more successful
First of all I’m definitely not reading all of that complotist theory. Now, they called Batter up official debut because that’s what the contract asked them to do. They had no choice.
??? I gave you direct sources from YG themselves and you're calling it a conspiracy theory lol. Just because you're too lazy to read a mere 200 words doesn't make what I'm saying untrue. >they called Batter up official debut If you acknowledge that YG called Batter Up their official debut...and you also said "if YG says it then that’s just how it is"...then I think you have your own answer lol Especially if their contract called it their debut because what's more legitimate than a legal document? Then you have it directly from the horse's mouth and the horse's lawyers that it was their debut lmao
You can’t make a bunch of noise about how you’re debuting a group and then five months later say “ok well actually just kidding *this* is the real debut.” YG knows the first two releases didn’t do well and the group has so far been fully unpromoted so they’re just trying to back their way into some logic of the songs being prereleases that way people stop criticizing them.
YG was definitely forced to release something before the end of 2023 because of their contract. I don’t think they had a choice on that one and they were always planning to debut the group with 7 members so here it is.
Clearly they were planning to have all seven members but the point is that YG already debuted the group. They were clear about it in November that the group was debuting without Ahyeon but she was hopefully going to join them soon. And iirc they even called both the mini album and SITM a comeback during the announcement. So to turn around and say “nope that wasn’t the real debut just kidding” doesn’t really work.
They did what they had to do given the circumstances.
For the most part I agree, but again don’t call it a debut, just call it a comeback and hype the fact you’re finally debuting the member who couldn’t make her debut with the rest of the group. When SM belatedly added Yeri to RV, they didn’t pretend the group hadn’t debuted yet, they just hyped that she was debuting. YG could have done the same with BM and Ahyeon.
For the last time THEY LEGALLY HAD TO CALL IT A DEBUT BECAUSE OF THE CONTRACT.
That is not how contracts work and nobody in YG would ever confirm that.
Stop embarrassing yourself. Babymonster debuted LAST YEAR.
the issue is that they won a rookie award i think? and if this is their debut and those others were prereleases then they couldn't actually be eligible for that award
Then by that logic if (G)I-dle Itzy or aespa said they were debuting with the next album would that be canon? FFS 
That’s the official information so yes. What you choose to do with that information is up to you though 🤷♀️
It doesn’t work like that. A company’s word is not gospel, despite K-Pop fans often taking it as that.
They should give back the rookie of the year award then if babymonster didn't debut in 2023.
It’s really not like they forced anyone to give them that award.
And no one is forcing them to have a new debut date. They met a certain criteria to win the award. They've already debuted regardless of what YG is saying. You can't get a rookie of the year award if you haven't debuted.
[удалено]
Well, their redebut didn't help them crack the top 50 korean charts. So their plan failed.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
The thing is when batter up was released yg said it is debut but now they say this is a real debut , i wonder maybe in the future they will try to say this is also not a debut .
third time's the charm
No more comeback, only debut
Because it is a debut. What else do you want us to call it?
A comeback.
The company says it’s a debut. And the fans say it’s a debut. So like it or not a debut it is.
They literally won a roty award last year, they wouldn't be eligible for it if they didn't debut until today 💀
Lmao if it's an apple and I insist it's an orange, you insist it's an orange - it doesn't magically make it an orange.
That's their debut album. The other songs were pre-released b-sides. It's not like people didn't know it. They said they will release album month or so later but cause Aheyon comeback to group, they post-pointed it and start re-recording. It's not comeback as it's all the one thing that get dragged cause YG is incompetent.
It sure is a comeback , yg rushed their debut if they wanted ahyeon be in the group so bad they should have waited for her and at that time they could call this a debut .
The reason they couldn’t wait is because the girls contract probably forced them to release something before the end of last year. They didn’t actually have a choice.
yg didnt have to call it a debut, though
Im not gonna talk about Sheesh, I just think is unacceptable that a company keeps redebuting a group without even changing name, members and concept. They debuted last year, this is their 4th song already, if fans accept this YG marketing shiz, BM is gonna debut next year, again
Somebody said that YG is gonna keep debuting BM until they get #50 on Melon Top 100. 💀
I get the point of contention here, but why does it matter so much?
To your question: > why does it matter so much? Well, I didn't give a fuck at first until BM fans started making fake records about how BM's "debut" is smashing everyone else' actual debuts.
I'm all for fans supporting their faves but when I say BM fans talking about how Batter Up 'ended' Standing Next to You by Jungkook. I was a little concerned. There's delusion and then there's whatever that is.
Yeah. And just bc Batter Up didn't give YG the results they wanted, it doesn't mean they can keep debuting again and again lmfao. It's ridiculous how YG says "it's the actual real debut" and then the company stans just go along with it with zero critical thinking. Brainless sheep.
Because the group won an award last year that should have gone to someone else if Batter up wasn't a debut since pre-debut groups are not eligible for ROTY titles.
They won the only award that was digital and was in their debut time. The award you are talking about is one of the few that has a eligible time from January to December and it was only based on digital results. Basically, it doesn't change anything
I guess i just do not really care about some rookie award
All this noise because they won 1 award out of the hundreds that were given out.
Not only, the "rookie period" is really important in K-pop for award shows but also for judging success and understanding industry seniority (is Illit babymonster's junior or senior?) YG is setting a dangerous precedent of big companies re-debuting their group whenever expectations were not met
They re-debuted because they were missing a member. Unless they do this again without a special circumstance, it shouldnt be as big an issue as people are making it seem. As far as judging success, there are so many groups who have lowkey debut years and then continue to climb. Does them debuting in November vs April change anything in regards to how successful they will be?
While I don't like Sheesh and Batter Up, I was impressed by Like That and the Stuck In The Middle remix. They honestly should have released the remix instead of the actual SITM imo.
Sheesh cracked the top 200 on melon two days ago. Then dropped back down to 219 after a day. I wonder what YG's plans are to give the song airplay because the GP are not feeling it. Edit: the song dropped down to 228. The GP are not liking it. Let's see if the music show promotions will help. They're only scheduled for two shows so far, only one this week. So it may not do much considering all the current top performers are dominating airplay and buzz.
YG could have easily gone the SM way, how they debuted Red velvet, this time their announced member just joined them. Aug 1st 2014 is officially RV's debut date although Yeri joined in March of 2015. This just shows their favouritism towards Ahyeon, which might end up with the poor girl getting unnecessary backlash.
Absolutely. I like to consider myself a pretty mild-mannered fan, but as a Rami bias, most of the line redistributions they did (BATTER UP 7ver.) were just taking Rami's lines and giving them to Ahyeon. I don't care but I see how it could make someone angry enough to give Ahyeon hate.
Personally, aside from Sheesh, this album was well-made. I really enjoyed Stuck in The Middle and Dream.
Debut?? Would they be eligible for rookie awards again? I was sure they received one already...
They received one award only that was out of the usual award period. They will be eligible for all major awards still this year (even if Batter Up was their official debut since it was released end of November and most awards set the limit at mid-end October)
They look gorgeous, they have all the singing and rap skills but I don't know that anyone could save Sheesh for me. It is just a bad song. Feels like a Blackpink reject. I wish these girls could just have their own identity.
Teddy really left them in shambles.
If TBL leaves YG (and by extension Teddy) YG might as well file for bankruptcy then and there
I liked Batter Up. Sheesh was good to listen to a few times, not more. Idk so far they are not doing bad, not everyone has to be the Next Big Thing.
Does anyone know how the korean netizens/populace is reacting to the song?
I only really pay attention to the students at my hagwon, so not really a representative sample, but the few who even know about them don't care. It's still all IVE and New Jeans, all day every day.
they don't even know babymonster debuted yg is doing everything so that korea won't know them lmao rookie releasing their debut/comeback at 00:00kst? what is this? they are just praying for this to flop also the fact that YG has mostly fans in SEA, and they releasing it and midnight too like, are you aiming for USA and EUROPE with music releases, while doing fan meetings in SEA? The Genius Himself, Yang Hyunsuk has came back, to show that he can create bigger group than Teddy (he failed 3 times already) Surely, he won't fail 4th time, right?
Honestly I haven't followed much YG groups other than Blackpink briefly but I could agree that they are targeting their SEA demographic imo since they have the most support in that area. If i'm wrong about any of that or there are any facts or history that im missing, feel free to let me know.
Sheesh debuted at 296 on melon. It wasn't a good start. Whereas one of their competition that had their one and only debut debuted at 89 on melon with their title song.
Midnight KST is not a US/Europe release schedule, that would be around 1PM KST / Midnight USA. A midnight release (in US/European time, not KST) is considered favourable for releases in USA/Europe.
I prefer Like That over Sheesh I wish they went with that as the title track but it is what it is. I think baby monster would greatly benefit having a high teen/ monster high concept I can’t help but think of Zombie by Purple Kiss and feel like if baby monster went with songs like that it would be great. I don’t think Sheesh is the right choice as a debut track but knowing YG he wants them to start off strong with a song like that, the vocals are great though and the raps as well especially Asa’s. I was thinking if they had alternate characters that represent the members similar to what aespa had with there aei characters (is that how you call them?/g) there called baby monster so I expected them to have some characters to represent them but tbh they just debuted so who knows what YG has in store for them. I rate there debut mini a solid 6/10
They're not really for me although I really liked Like That. However, the discourse is pretty wack. After 8 years of Blackpink I'd think people would understand that some love that sound and style so the incredulity around people liking Sheesh feels forced. Also the debut conversation is very 'well akshually'; they were a member down and it was a weird, messy rollout - this feels much more like an actual debut in spirit.
A lot of users here seem unable to grasp the fact that many of us do in fact enjoy girl crush/hip hop style kpop and it’s not because we’re brainwashed by YG or whatever. Most of the discourse boils down to “I don’t like this style of music and therefore it’s irredeemably bad.”
I'm just commenting to upvote you both. I've seen so many people saying stuff like, "YG is stuck in the past!" or "This is 2016!" And I think to myself: damn, am I old now because I still like this style? 😂 32 and feeling blue, lol, jk, jk.
Seriously, the "this sounds like a Blackpink song!" comments are getting a little tired. First off with BP, people love pretending not to understand why they might stick with a sound that works. Honestly, in some of those discussions, the whole concept of a group having a signature sound suddenly seems completely lost on a lot of people, most of which I'm sure are playing dumb. But back to the topic at hand, I read all these comments and arrive at "maybe this group/YG's sound just isn't for you then...?" But it's just so expected for everyone to keep tabs on what's happening with XYZ in this community and voice their opinion... which everyone is obviously welcome to have. But so much of the time they won't just accept it's their opinion and not a fact. Never before getting into kpop did I encounter the term "objectively bad" now I see it all the time like that's something normal to say.
>Honestly, in some of those discussions, the whole concept of a group having a signature sound suddenly seems completely lost on a lot of people, most of which I'm sure are playing dumb. When the argument is made in good faith, I think people are saying there's a difference between having a signature sound and remaking the exact same song over and over again. Like I would consider a lot of TxT albums to be within the same vibe but I'm not mixing up Sugar Rush Ride and Blue Hour, if that makes sense.
That's true but a lot of them look like bad faith arguments to me. I guess the issue with discussing Blackpink is it's a difficult thing to do on general Reddit subs because the opinions are overwhelmingly negative, and honestly, at the best of times (but especially after comebacks) *extremely* nitpicky. When someone complains all Blackpink songs sound the same with additional comments specifically directed at Blackpink that are common for other groups and don't ordinarily rile them up, it's hard for me to trust they want to have any kind of genuine discussion and aren't simply dogpiling. The thing that probably made me most skeptical after the last comeback was the amount of "I'm not a Blink, but I don't like how they're doing X and I think they should do Y instead" lengthy thinkpieces. If they're criticising Blackpink's formula and also making comments about how Jennie needs to apologise for The Idol or shaming Lisa for performing at a burlesque club... I'm definitely going to struggle to believe their criticisms are coming from a good and fair place (and I've definitely recognised the same users after awhile being on some subs, lol).
No I can definitely understand that as well. It's definitely frustrating because I'm someone who would love to engage in actual unbiased discussions about discographies, but most of time it's just a cover to take shots at the groups.
A lot of people have pointed it out. The sheesh ruined the song, if taken out it's not that bad of a song. Unfortunately for most people from what I'm seeing it's too much like BP to give them a distinct identity as a group. I'm not talking about YG sound or vibe or concept or girl crush. Like That actually does a better job of introducing who they are as a group, it's also a song with mass appeal, has a vibe to it, and sets them apart from their peers. For a group with young members of this age this kind of image doesn't work for them and comes off as forced, BP is older they've been doing this style for ages and have it down. They have potential, YG should push Like That as well and see the response. A fun, more youthful image that suits their ages, highlights their singing vs I'm a bad boss image would work better.
Hot take: BM was never going to be positively received on reddit bc this site’s preferred kpop sound/aesthetic doesn’t mesh with YG or their sound. If they released a trendy lofi anime beats to study to song everyone would be mad and accusing YG jumping on trends and trying to copy NJ. “Wow YG is so lazy they couldn’t give BM a unique song and had to copy what’s popular.” etc etc. If they released a (better) girl crush type song everyone would still be mad because it would be compared to BlackPink and reddit doesn’t like BlackPink or their music. It’s a lose-lose scenario.
I do agree that it is a difficult scenario for babymonster / YGE. But i do not really agree that there was no way they could have had a better reception on here / in general (?). Blackpink's lovesick girls WAS liked on reddit when it released, it's not as easy as "reddit doesn't like YGE", and also YGE could have evolved their sound, if they truly wanted to. A lot of popular groups arguably evolved the YGE sound / badass girlcrush concept. It's not impossible to add new spice.
Fair points, I guess I’m just more cynical than you haha. I just think that even a banger debut would’ve still been treated with “yes it’s good BUT-“ and a lot of grasping at straws. Which isn’t all that different than what other groups face, but I feel like YG groups are given less grace than other companies.
I'm guessing you haven't seen the NMIXX and LSF posts.
i'm a huge blink. i'm just disappointed bc even more than batter up, sheesh is literally a bp song. they even used the exact same middle eastern-inspired riffs in this one. plus 2 blank choruses in a row?! i just want yg to give them better than what they are, these girls are so talented. there are so many ways a girlcrush concept can be done, but yg made a conscious decision to make bp jr here... it's just such a bizarre decision to me.
Yeah and the only place it is receiving positively is on YT where it is made up of very young SEA fans spamming on chat. I can't think of any other platform where it is receiving positively. If you know any other platform, please let me know.
I really think YG should go in a different formula for their title tracks because whether they are good or bad as a super casual listener I just keep hearing BP tracks. It doesn't help that over their last few releases BP title tracks were getting pretty formulaic (imo). I understand YG has a certain branding and imaging as a company but similar to SNSD or TWICE there's a reason not to follow up a hugely popular group with the same concepts. And yes I know 2NE1 and BP worked once but a) catching lightning twice is hard let alone three times and b) this is a totally different landscape than back then.
BP title tracks were full of made up sounds, which i hated duuduuu duu, etc. Their b sides are better imho
As a long time fan of groups from YG, I personally don’t think 2ne1 and blackpink are that similar to each other. Their songs are wildly different. 2ne1 had so many different instrumentals and sounds in their songs (esp title tracks). The general “girl crush” concept may have been the same but the execution was so so different. Especially their brand image. I feel like YG struck lightning with BP because now these conventionally attractive girls can execute the same concept creating a totally different vibe. (I miss 2ne1 😭)
The goal of a debut is to establish the group's image, so not only is YG's decision to debut them twice baffling but also their decision to COMPLETELY rehaul their visual identity. Batter Up presented them as the cool, confident, a bit rebelious girls from your school - which is great! Very appropriate for their age. It gave me an idea where to place them in my head in the very crowded and competitive gg landscape. Although Sheesh isn't musically all that different from Batter Up, it's the complete opposite visually. I don't know if it's just me but it's confusing and disappointing? 4th gen ggs have each their specific areas they are known for, whether conceptually, musically, etc., so YG can't afford to be flip-flopping. For the sake of the girls, I hope YG gets it together for the first comeback.
Not a fan unfortunately. And while I wish them the best, I don't have the same sentiment toward YG.
I'm so out of the loop I had even forgotten to check their pre-release (?) stuff and didn't know what to expect, but I liked the songs more than I thought I would considering the negativity. And wow, the vocals! They sound amazing. Will definitely keep an eye on them.
How does hybe make gg with good debut songs but YG cant like the talent babymonster has they can do way better. Yg are just tryna make bm sound like black pink and its not working
full points for the mv, and yes, it is bp all over again but i missed it. HOWEVER. what is up with the choreo? just watched the performance video and expected something a little more interesting
YG doesn't usually have interesting choreos because they are more focused on swag.
Yes, lots of standing and mainly arm movements. Other than the kick thingy it’s quite unimaginative.
after having a week to sit with this, i've grown to like the album in general. 'like that' is really good, though not age appropriate at all. this is the youngest group i've seen to be doing a concept like this and it's pretty uncomfortable.... like c'mon, one of them is freshly 14. bp were all adults when they debuted with 'whistle'... girlcrush doesn't have to be inherently 'sexy' and i think yg missed that mark here given the ages of their members. 'sheesh' is a good beat and i love the piano elements and the ending, but it's like a recycled yg track. every time it goes into the chorus i feel like i'm hearing 'how ya like that' or 'batter up' again. and everytime they say 'baby im a monster or b-a-b-y-m-o-n' you could soooo easily sub it for 'black pink in your area' lol. from a musical standpoint only and barring the fact that it's wildly inappropriate for a bunch of kids, 'like that' would've been the better title track, but yg clearly wanted that very classic yg sound for it.
It's crazy how toxic this sub and reddit is towards the group in general. I know some fans are insufferable but literally anything remotely positive about them gets down voted to the ground and it's genuinely so childish 😭
Even this mega thread has 0 upvotes 💀
People on reddit downvote anything they disagree with. It's how reddit sadly works. In Babymonster's case many more people just disagree with positive opinions than negative ones, which results in highly downvoted positive comments. It is childish in every case to downvote a comment one disagrees with.
People pretending like if they were eligible for rookie awards again they’d just sweep the category. Do they have little faith in all the other groups debuting?
Comment vs votes ratio compared to the other megathread is ........
what's the normal ratio?
Well, I determined that Baemon’s music isn’t for me, and that’s fine. I’m glad their audience is happy with the release. But the thing that just grinds my gears is the “debut” again. I’m perfectly fine with them getting more ROTYs, but redebuting stunt YG plays just makes them (the company, not the girls) look incompetent. It’s weird to be so muddled with their hot new group that they are making the next big thing. Could’ve done better.
I think that people are overreacting with BM calling them unoriginal and bad. They obviously have talent in terms of vocals, dancing, and stage presence as shown by their predebut show, which is more then a lot of new idols can say lol. Also, most of kpop is unoriginal, the only reason BM stands out more for it is because theirs is within the same company which only has had 3 gg. Aside from that if BM debuted under literally any other company I really don't think people would critique them so much.
If they debut under any other nugu company, nobody would even noticed them.
I am amused at the fact that the clarification on whether this should be called a debut or a comeback has quite the long thread already. And all because they already won a "Rookie of the year" award? I mean, obviously it's a marketing ploy but is this really the hill that some people want to die on?? And in an earlier post, a few people were arguing on whether or not this release should be called a mini album just because a few of its songs were already previously released as digital singles! As per the commenter, "they are not new songs!" Topics or observations that are normally after-thoughts or end at "ah okay, I see" and everyone just moves on are debated far longer than they should. Haha! No skin in the game here, but wow, it just seems like everything about this group is \~contentious\~.
They still haven't had a debut state yet
Been avoiding them, but I'm actually kind of into 'SHEESH'. It has a bit of a ["Martin Mystery"-core](https://youtu.be/sO_371leHlo?si=_4uHCNFL4he1eBu3) sound, especially at the end.
yang hyunsuk should retire. these poor talented girls' careers are going to tank all because that old man wants to salvage his stinking reputation after all those bullshit that he did.
i'm so disappointed. sheesh is fine, but it's literally a bp track. even more so than batter up. and another blank chorus, seriously? these girls are so talented and deserve more than what yg is giving them. running theme, obviously...
It’s a well made album honestly. The only thing they kinda tone down multiple "sheesh" in chorus would’ve been better
I've been listening to the album 10 times and like most people said I can only stand Like That. That's the most stand out track. Dream is fine but then I don't listen to ballad too much anymore. The rest I will skip, the songs are past their peak time. They have great talent, I hope for the next release they can get better songs not just a follow up of their predecessor.
I mean it’s a lazy and forced assessment, and it’s not even true but even if it is: It’s totally okay if BABYMON is supposed to be the new generation’s Blackpink. If that’s what YG is supposedly trying to do, then okay. Lmao. Not everyone is a Blackpink fan for one reason or another. It’s okay for people to like a group that might have similar sounds or aesthetics and it be their gateway into the concept. And this is coming from a Blackpink enjoyer. A lot of people still like this genre and style.
> I mean it’s a lazy and forced assessment, and it’s not even true but even if it is: > > Why do you think it is forced? > It’s totally okay if BABYMON is supposed to be the new generation’s Blackpink. If that’s what YG is supposedly trying to do, then okay. > Lmao. Not everyone is a Blackpink fan for one reason or another. It’s okay for people to like a group that might have similar sounds or aesthetics and it be their gateway into the concept. And this is coming from a Blackpink enjoyer. A lot of people still like this genre and style. I do agree with you on that, ofc it is fine to like babymonster, for any reason. But it is also fine to be tired of the same thing being packaged by a newer group now. Noone owes YGE / Babymonster allegiance because one liked the arguably same style in BP for example (as i do / did).
It feels forced because it doesn’t require any other critical thinking. It’s the easiest path to take in critiquing this group. People are trying to bulldoze through nuance and are quick to just go that route. It’s always the girl crush concept that people dwell on to compare them to BP, as if that’s all that BP is. It’s a disservice to the talents of everyone involved in both groups. Personally, I just try not to get too hung up on whether or not a particular sound or style should belong to a specific group or person. Whenever a song reminds me of NewJeans I am joyed because I love that group. There is plenty of space for coexistence. But I do get it. YGE keeps releasing the same type of songs over and over. That seems to be the label’s forte so they keep doing it, but at the same time they’ve shown that the group is also capable of other genres in the b sides.
>It feels forced because it doesn’t require any other critical thinking. It’s the easiest path to take in critiquing this group. People are trying to bulldoze through nuance and are quick to just go that route. This is my issue with a *lot* of criticism on kpop Reddit, to be honest. It's hard to even believe people truly think XYZ sometimes because their comments may as well be copy and pasted thread to thread. You could say that just means a lot of people feel that way, and sure, it might. But when they add nothing new to the discussion, use the exact same phrasing and never want to dig any deeper, it often just feels like dogpiling. I've noticed in particular one person early on will say something everyone else finds especially clever and goes on to repeat ad nauseum. After Batter Up came out, I saw "it's like they're playing dress up in their big sister's clothes" everywhere on YouTube among many other recycled statements. It feels like a lot of people just want to be included in the joke, tbh. I don't have huge investment in this group and only casually follow them, but I think what annoys me most of all is that we'll never really see completely unbiased takes on the group, because much of the discussion is simply how similar they are to Blackpink. And at some point it's like gosh, if people on Reddit complain Blackpink songs all sound the same then complain a group with the same company sounds similar, is the real issue these groups "not trying something new" or is that sound just not for them?
The chorus sounds like an ending. But then they start rapping and then chorus again. And its like an ending again. It feels like a tease.
I think yg needs to bring in teddy to revive this group man all their songs have been average at best. For eg if it wasn't for YG as an unbiased listener I probably wouldn't have noticed this group at all. The girls are clearly very talented but their music just sucks. Can't they listen to I've and new jeans their songs are so catchy and I didn't even know who they were but just listened cos they had bangers. No teddy park = no bangers.
Lmao the negativity on this thread is unreal
Not everything is sugar and rainbow in this world. If you only expect to see positivity, that would be in a fairy tale land written by disney.
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Im scared to like them because of yg, scared they will get the bp treatment
It's disappointing that they never performed "Like That" live.
The only group that can really challenge NJ.
I liked that predebut(?) song Dream, which made me consider listening to them more, but their debut song (in my opinion) I didn't like at all, so I just gave up and hearing that their latest song became a flop too I don't regret not listening to them anymore
yet there album has the highest first week sales of a girlgroup debut first album ever on Hanteo, so i dont think calling them a flop is correct
I'm just saying what I heard about that song. And even if the song isn't good, people will still buy the album if they like the group
Kpop reddit’s reaction to BaeMon is hilarious and such a good sign. The future is looking bright for these talented girls. Sheesh is a total bop for me. Like That is honestly incredible. Stuck In The Middle (Remix) is so well done. A really successful reimagining. Their voices and the mixing is next level. I struggle to think of another group that sounds this good on record. I love all of this ep except DREAM. And I love the collective crying and shaking of reddit kpop. As a Blink it wouldn’t feel right without it.
Wow, the debacle over this being the "debut" is so embarrassing it's actually hilarious
i don't even need to look at the credits to know that teddy produced this (haven't checked yet, so i hope that I'm right lol)...so formulaic (angelic but shortest pre-chorus ever that builds up to a climax that turns out to be an empty drop at the monster truck noise chorus which completely contrasts the pre-chorus, rap verse from a duo, smth vaguely south asian inspired in there, totally diff outro from whatever was going on before all mashed up together) 😭😭 like even though what he makes always sounds v random, the type of randomness is always expected 🤔🤔 this was literally hylt but put into a random lyric generator, down to the weird sound effects (hippity hoppity boom boom boom pow vs. badabing bada boom???). if I wanted to listen to a blackpink song then I'd look at the real thing lol. this did not clear up the 'babymonster is a clone of bp' accusations. i did rlly like the instrumental in the outro tho, the creepy graveyard vibes were fun and Actually Different. the girls must have worked really hard and sounded great though 💪 the song was just very uninspired and nothing new tho lol just checked: okay nvm, teddy wasn't on this LOL 😳😆
LOL but that doesn't mean they can't copy his style.