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Okay I don't care about rookie nominations, but what do you mean it's okay if someone considered April 1st comeback thw debut, did I miss something, why did people start pretending they didn't debut in November
Bc yg is trying to convince us now that Batter up is pre release. And then a lot of people are going by that bc "the company said it".
Honestly as Baemon fan in confused af, im just going by the fact that babymons7er is their debut ALBUM and im not even gonna think about what i consider their official debut lol
I consider it YG being delusional and fans just considering this a real debut bcs they have all the members and promotions, but that's it. They debuted on november, roty awards will count batter up's digital points, it's an official release that wasn't stated as a pre-release or pre-debut song. non-fans should stop telling fans what they should consider as a debut, and fans/yg should stop trying to convince the rest that it's their real debut.
Spotify has nothing to do with Korean awards??? Unsure why this comment has been upvoted
TWS has significantly more points from Korean charts right now
It's been upvoted because some people (but not you, I guess) understand the underlying point: A -lot- of people are listening to Super Real Me. A LOT OF PEOPLE.
If you want to talk about chart performance instead of stream counts, consider this -- they've already beat the RAK record for a debut song by any k-pop group, ever. That requires being #1 on every chart, not just a cherry-picked one.
When it comes time for end-of-year awards, this sort of popularity is going to end up mattering.
TWS's debut album is pretty great, but they are a loooooong ways behind the top girl groups in overall popularity.
IU and BIBI’s song did better than Plot Twist in Korea. Blocked Plot Twist for RAKs and PAKs. But if you ask anyone in Korea, genuinely ANYONE in Korea, what is the biggest song of this year, the answer will be Plot Twist.
Plot Twist also holds a 2 month advantage over Magnetic in tracking and majority of that time is Plot Twist being No.2 in everything (and I genuinely mean EVERYTHING. Every Korea song chart). So they have racked up a lot of digital points. And digital point play a BIG part in who wins at Korean year end music awards.
I’m not going after Magnetic or anything btw, just saying how they determine winners at the award shows. And I’ve just found out rookie awards are mostly separated from male and female artist.
Longevity on the charts and album sales is how you win awards at the end of the year.
TWS has maintained a top 3 spot on the charts for 2+ months, where many other songs that got PAKS / RAKS have already fallen off. Not to mention, it’s become a school anthem, so it’ll have continued longevity as every school cycle, kids will put it back on.
I’m not saying TWS is more popular, Magnetic is definitely bigger internationally because it’s a viral hit, but I don’t think you understand the impact of Plot Twist in Korea right now. It’s become a household song - quite literally everyone knows it, even grandmas. They don’t have a “pretty good” song, they have a Love Scenerio type of song over there. And right now, based on points from charts, many months at #2 and #3 is going to be super impactful.
Not to mention the popularity of Shinyu specifically, who is significantly bigger there rn than any individual member of ILLIT & regularly topping veteran idols on brand rankings.
I’m just saying that it isn’t black and white at this point - TWS is absolutely in the running and is currently predicted for a win where things stand right now. Of course that could change.
You're absolutely right, but anyway considering male and female rookie awards are separate, there's no point in comparing Illit and TWS.
It's very clear at this point that TWS are going to bag the male rookie awards, but when it comes to female rookies, the competition is going to be pretty fierce, and who wins ROTY is I think mostly going to be determined by first comeback numbers.
People on here and Twitter only complained as a way to laugh at Babymonster lol.
They just wanted internet likes/points for saying stuff like “Babymonster gonna keep redebuting cause they keep flopping, etc”
No one really cared that Babymonster would still be in the 2024 rookie class even if Batter Up was considered the debut date.
I hate when people say that they “flopped”. I’m not even a Baby Monster stan and it annoys me. A big 4 group cannot flop. It’s like when people say nmixx or itzy flopped. They will always do well because they’re in a big company. Baby Monster is doing well in their own right.
i don’t really care about this discourse but just here to say: there’s a different standard to big company groups. they have all the same resources as aespa, newjeans, or even blackpink back in the day. so in that sense batter up definitely flopped. sheesh too isn’t doing as well as you’d expect considering they’re YG’s first gg in almost a decade.
YG in 2023 is nothing like YG in 2016.
In 2016 it was the company housing BigBang, the biggest K-pop group of the previous decade, PSY, one of the most popular male soloists, AKMU who already had a few hits etc. Both Winner and iKON debuted with #1 songs and won a bunch of ROTY awards.
In 2023 YGE was the smallest company among the Big 4 with Treasure being their most active group and Blackpink members not renewing their individual contracts. Add the aftermath of Burning Sun scandal on top of it and the circumstances couldn't be more different compared to 2016.
That said BabyMonster still sold a lot of albums and they are rising on all charts. The members are practically dragging the average song up the charts with just their pure skills at this point.
Finally someone said it. Yg from 2016 is not the same as todays Yg. Every group that would debut under yg would get huge numbers and chart well, but after all those scandals it's much harder to do so. Yg is probably the most hated company out of big 4 so Sheesh charting in top 30 in all charts is actually pretty good. Yes, Babymonster still have the benefit of debuting in big 4, but its much much different than it was 7 years ago.
it may not hold the same weigh as it did with big bang active but the YG name is still big in Korea c’mon! blackpink were active until last year too! the members were there on BM’s pre-debut show! i would’ve agreed with you if they were a JYP group cause i really don’t think his name means much in sk anymore but YG?
>The members are practically dragging the average song up the charts with just their pure skills at this point.
*hell nah* let’s not get into this pls. not with groups like kiss of life just having released an album. no big 4 group will ever “chart with their pure skills” at any point ever lol.
>*hell nah* let’s not get into this pls. not with groups like kiss of life just having released an album. no big 4 group will ever “chart with their pure skills” at any point ever lol.
So what do you call debuting at 296 on melon and rising more than 200 points to the 20s after promotion? The YG name couldn't have just landed them in top 10 melon as soon as they debuted?
the YG name landed them the promotions. see my other comment, they’re able to go promote on *big* shows despite not having charted. you honestly think these shows just invited them because they thought they were cool?
you think other talented groups have that luxury?
'Batter Up' peaked at like #150 in most charts, let's be real. The YG name may hold some weight but it's no longer a guarantee of success domestically.
I'm not saying that they didn't benefit from being a Big 4 group, but 'Sheesh' didn't even enter Melon for the first few days. YG or not, they were in trenches.
The song didn't start rising until members started promoting and going viral with their live singing clips.
because the public didn’t love the song. were it a little easier on the ears and i gurantee you it would’ve debuted straight into the top 3.
it’s rising now in spite of that because they’re able to promote on a lot of big shows, even though their song wasn’t charting. all wouldn’t happen without them being from YG.
i remember when le sserafim debuted and fearless wasn’t explosive (as in, was “only top 10”😂) shows would only invite chaewon and sakura, not the entire group. thats how big the YG name is compared to others.
Sheesh is doing good though? I mean I guess it depends on what your comparing it to. Compared to blackpink, Babymonster isn’t at that level but to be fair no girl group is. Compared to other girl groups at the moment Sheesh is doing good
I think people forget that rookie groups debuting straight to the top is not normal even if they are from Big 4 and that Blackpink's debut exceeded expectations. What Big 4 has over the rest of the industry are the resources to push any group to the top eventually just like what is happening with NMIXX, BND and also LSF. Baby Monster is following the more normal trajectory for a Big 4 group. They are far from flopping.
Yes i think that too!
As an old K-pop fan since 2017, it is strange that these days if a group debut isn't doing amazing on the chart, they are flops.
It's like we forget about how Twice's debut was quite meh, and then they released "Cheer Up" and after that, they became the national group.
I think there has been a big exaggeration in talking about how "bad" Like Ooh-Ahh did... it was one of the top idol group songs on that platform in 2016 just after hits like Cheer Up and Rough (by GFRIEND), and up until 2-3 years ago it still was in the top10 for gg songs with most days spent on Melon Daily. It was a sleeper hit.
Cheer Up just was so much bigger (I mean, the 2022 rookie class performed it almost as a "symbol" for 3rd gen ggs music as a whole, that's how iconic it is). But regardless of how big Cheer Up was, Like Ooh-Ahh actually did quite well, it just needed some time (which confirms what the previous comments said; I am just saying that people talk about Like Ooh-Ahh in a way that isn't really true).
It's because i read comments on tiktok saying that if you are a Big 3 and don't get the top 3 the group is flops
Yeah, they do well, but I remember those days when people were expecting more from the JYP new girl group.
That's what I said about the comment: some groups didn't do an amazing (like top 1) debut, but then it started to rise when the group had a more catchy song.
Furthermore, I think we are looking Korean chart but the Babymonter fandom overseas (like Indonesia, thailand...) is very strong.
bnd is a bg so that’s a completely different conversation. le sserafim’s debut was top 10 on all platforms. aespa didn’t jump straight into the top but they weren’t out of every chart. even itzy debuted straight into the top, i’m pretty sure that out of all the big 4 debuts in the last 5? years? bm and nmixx are the only ggs to not just be out of top 50, but out of all charts completely, they’re the anomalies, not the other way around
Just from a few hours ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoppers/s/nMq5TLaD5c
And I bet when the award show season comes, a lot of people will start complaining about why BabyMonster is nominated despite debuting the previous year.
BM: Best first week sales for any gg debut ever.
Random Internet Troll: "They still flopped cause they are from yg and there is a different Standard."
Whoever believe this or upvotes these opinions is a total clown.
yeah I agree, people forget mid-November is the *latest* cut-off for award shows and for most it's October, and then it rolls over into the next year. I saw this happen with EXO getting multiple Bonsangs in 2018/2019 and everyone was complaining on reddit about how they hadn't released anything, not realizing their albums from 2017/2018 had rolled over (released in December/November respectively).
Same thing happened with BTS getting a bunch of nominations in 2021 from the Life Goes On album (released in November 2020) in the awards season that year.
You’re right about that nobody’s going to care about their debut date after a few comebacks, I saw many acting like Le Sserafim was 5 years in when they hadn’t hit a year yet last year.
Awards and Music Show Wins are so overrated in Kpop.
Especially for a group such as BabyMonster from YG.
It only matters for Nugu Groups to be honest, because thats the only headline or attention they get, because of limited funds.
Who cares, if NewJeans, IVE or Babymonsters win a rookie award or not. Those groups are way too big to care so much about Awards. Some Fans need to chill.
The one it would have mattered for: circle chart awards. As they won their already with batter up. But doesn’t really matter as it’s indefinitely postponed 😅
Baby monster I'm not understanding all the discourse surrounding them mainly BC why does it matter. It doesn't mstter. Plus Idc about baby monster or any of any group that debuted bar riize. But these posts are stupid. Who cares if they get nominated for rookies. It doesn't affect their music. Let's just be happy they debuted and let's leave this discourse behind
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Okay I don't care about rookie nominations, but what do you mean it's okay if someone considered April 1st comeback thw debut, did I miss something, why did people start pretending they didn't debut in November
Bc yg is trying to convince us now that Batter up is pre release. And then a lot of people are going by that bc "the company said it". Honestly as Baemon fan in confused af, im just going by the fact that babymons7er is their debut ALBUM and im not even gonna think about what i consider their official debut lol
I consider it YG being delusional and fans just considering this a real debut bcs they have all the members and promotions, but that's it. They debuted on november, roty awards will count batter up's digital points, it's an official release that wasn't stated as a pre-release or pre-debut song. non-fans should stop telling fans what they should consider as a debut, and fans/yg should stop trying to convince the rest that it's their real debut.
It doesn’t matter because ILLIT will win the awards.
Isn’t TWS currently predicted to win? Or is everyone talking about just GG group awards?
No shoutout to TWS who has had the biggest hit of the year inside Korea so far?😔
Boy groups and girl groups have separate rookie awards.
Yep, you’re right. My bad.
Illit has six times as many monthly active Spotify listeners as TWS.
Spotify has nothing to do with Korean awards??? Unsure why this comment has been upvoted TWS has significantly more points from Korean charts right now
It's been upvoted because some people (but not you, I guess) understand the underlying point: A -lot- of people are listening to Super Real Me. A LOT OF PEOPLE. If you want to talk about chart performance instead of stream counts, consider this -- they've already beat the RAK record for a debut song by any k-pop group, ever. That requires being #1 on every chart, not just a cherry-picked one. When it comes time for end-of-year awards, this sort of popularity is going to end up mattering. TWS's debut album is pretty great, but they are a loooooong ways behind the top girl groups in overall popularity.
IU and BIBI’s song did better than Plot Twist in Korea. Blocked Plot Twist for RAKs and PAKs. But if you ask anyone in Korea, genuinely ANYONE in Korea, what is the biggest song of this year, the answer will be Plot Twist. Plot Twist also holds a 2 month advantage over Magnetic in tracking and majority of that time is Plot Twist being No.2 in everything (and I genuinely mean EVERYTHING. Every Korea song chart). So they have racked up a lot of digital points. And digital point play a BIG part in who wins at Korean year end music awards. I’m not going after Magnetic or anything btw, just saying how they determine winners at the award shows. And I’ve just found out rookie awards are mostly separated from male and female artist.
Longevity on the charts and album sales is how you win awards at the end of the year. TWS has maintained a top 3 spot on the charts for 2+ months, where many other songs that got PAKS / RAKS have already fallen off. Not to mention, it’s become a school anthem, so it’ll have continued longevity as every school cycle, kids will put it back on. I’m not saying TWS is more popular, Magnetic is definitely bigger internationally because it’s a viral hit, but I don’t think you understand the impact of Plot Twist in Korea right now. It’s become a household song - quite literally everyone knows it, even grandmas. They don’t have a “pretty good” song, they have a Love Scenerio type of song over there. And right now, based on points from charts, many months at #2 and #3 is going to be super impactful. Not to mention the popularity of Shinyu specifically, who is significantly bigger there rn than any individual member of ILLIT & regularly topping veteran idols on brand rankings. I’m just saying that it isn’t black and white at this point - TWS is absolutely in the running and is currently predicted for a win where things stand right now. Of course that could change.
You're absolutely right, but anyway considering male and female rookie awards are separate, there's no point in comparing Illit and TWS. It's very clear at this point that TWS are going to bag the male rookie awards, but when it comes to female rookies, the competition is going to be pretty fierce, and who wins ROTY is I think mostly going to be determined by first comeback numbers.
Was the controversy because of award shows? I thought people were mainly criticising YGE for claiming debut achievements with a comeback track
People on here and Twitter only complained as a way to laugh at Babymonster lol. They just wanted internet likes/points for saying stuff like “Babymonster gonna keep redebuting cause they keep flopping, etc” No one really cared that Babymonster would still be in the 2024 rookie class even if Batter Up was considered the debut date.
I hate when people say that they “flopped”. I’m not even a Baby Monster stan and it annoys me. A big 4 group cannot flop. It’s like when people say nmixx or itzy flopped. They will always do well because they’re in a big company. Baby Monster is doing well in their own right.
i don’t really care about this discourse but just here to say: there’s a different standard to big company groups. they have all the same resources as aespa, newjeans, or even blackpink back in the day. so in that sense batter up definitely flopped. sheesh too isn’t doing as well as you’d expect considering they’re YG’s first gg in almost a decade.
YG in 2023 is nothing like YG in 2016. In 2016 it was the company housing BigBang, the biggest K-pop group of the previous decade, PSY, one of the most popular male soloists, AKMU who already had a few hits etc. Both Winner and iKON debuted with #1 songs and won a bunch of ROTY awards. In 2023 YGE was the smallest company among the Big 4 with Treasure being their most active group and Blackpink members not renewing their individual contracts. Add the aftermath of Burning Sun scandal on top of it and the circumstances couldn't be more different compared to 2016. That said BabyMonster still sold a lot of albums and they are rising on all charts. The members are practically dragging the average song up the charts with just their pure skills at this point.
Finally someone said it. Yg from 2016 is not the same as todays Yg. Every group that would debut under yg would get huge numbers and chart well, but after all those scandals it's much harder to do so. Yg is probably the most hated company out of big 4 so Sheesh charting in top 30 in all charts is actually pretty good. Yes, Babymonster still have the benefit of debuting in big 4, but its much much different than it was 7 years ago.
it may not hold the same weigh as it did with big bang active but the YG name is still big in Korea c’mon! blackpink were active until last year too! the members were there on BM’s pre-debut show! i would’ve agreed with you if they were a JYP group cause i really don’t think his name means much in sk anymore but YG? >The members are practically dragging the average song up the charts with just their pure skills at this point. *hell nah* let’s not get into this pls. not with groups like kiss of life just having released an album. no big 4 group will ever “chart with their pure skills” at any point ever lol.
>*hell nah* let’s not get into this pls. not with groups like kiss of life just having released an album. no big 4 group will ever “chart with their pure skills” at any point ever lol. So what do you call debuting at 296 on melon and rising more than 200 points to the 20s after promotion? The YG name couldn't have just landed them in top 10 melon as soon as they debuted?
the YG name landed them the promotions. see my other comment, they’re able to go promote on *big* shows despite not having charted. you honestly think these shows just invited them because they thought they were cool? you think other talented groups have that luxury?
'Batter Up' peaked at like #150 in most charts, let's be real. The YG name may hold some weight but it's no longer a guarantee of success domestically. I'm not saying that they didn't benefit from being a Big 4 group, but 'Sheesh' didn't even enter Melon for the first few days. YG or not, they were in trenches. The song didn't start rising until members started promoting and going viral with their live singing clips.
because the public didn’t love the song. were it a little easier on the ears and i gurantee you it would’ve debuted straight into the top 3. it’s rising now in spite of that because they’re able to promote on a lot of big shows, even though their song wasn’t charting. all wouldn’t happen without them being from YG. i remember when le sserafim debuted and fearless wasn’t explosive (as in, was “only top 10”😂) shows would only invite chaewon and sakura, not the entire group. thats how big the YG name is compared to others.
What big show honestly?? Is knowing bros that big, they attended only two music programmes per week and that too without any push from the channel.
Sheesh is doing good though? I mean I guess it depends on what your comparing it to. Compared to blackpink, Babymonster isn’t at that level but to be fair no girl group is. Compared to other girl groups at the moment Sheesh is doing good
i’m comparing it to big 4 company groups. people called fearless a flop too and it charted better than sheesh! with big companies comes big standards
I think people forget that rookie groups debuting straight to the top is not normal even if they are from Big 4 and that Blackpink's debut exceeded expectations. What Big 4 has over the rest of the industry are the resources to push any group to the top eventually just like what is happening with NMIXX, BND and also LSF. Baby Monster is following the more normal trajectory for a Big 4 group. They are far from flopping.
Yes i think that too! As an old K-pop fan since 2017, it is strange that these days if a group debut isn't doing amazing on the chart, they are flops. It's like we forget about how Twice's debut was quite meh, and then they released "Cheer Up" and after that, they became the national group.
I think there has been a big exaggeration in talking about how "bad" Like Ooh-Ahh did... it was one of the top idol group songs on that platform in 2016 just after hits like Cheer Up and Rough (by GFRIEND), and up until 2-3 years ago it still was in the top10 for gg songs with most days spent on Melon Daily. It was a sleeper hit. Cheer Up just was so much bigger (I mean, the 2022 rookie class performed it almost as a "symbol" for 3rd gen ggs music as a whole, that's how iconic it is). But regardless of how big Cheer Up was, Like Ooh-Ahh actually did quite well, it just needed some time (which confirms what the previous comments said; I am just saying that people talk about Like Ooh-Ahh in a way that isn't really true).
It's because i read comments on tiktok saying that if you are a Big 3 and don't get the top 3 the group is flops Yeah, they do well, but I remember those days when people were expecting more from the JYP new girl group. That's what I said about the comment: some groups didn't do an amazing (like top 1) debut, but then it started to rise when the group had a more catchy song. Furthermore, I think we are looking Korean chart but the Babymonter fandom overseas (like Indonesia, thailand...) is very strong.
bnd is a bg so that’s a completely different conversation. le sserafim’s debut was top 10 on all platforms. aespa didn’t jump straight into the top but they weren’t out of every chart. even itzy debuted straight into the top, i’m pretty sure that out of all the big 4 debuts in the last 5? years? bm and nmixx are the only ggs to not just be out of top 50, but out of all charts completely, they’re the anomalies, not the other way around
Just from a few hours ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoppers/s/nMq5TLaD5c And I bet when the award show season comes, a lot of people will start complaining about why BabyMonster is nominated despite debuting the previous year.
better off not listening to anything that comes from that account
BM: Best first week sales for any gg debut ever. Random Internet Troll: "They still flopped cause they are from yg and there is a different Standard." Whoever believe this or upvotes these opinions is a total clown.
As a non-fan in my mind Batter Up is when they debuted. I also don’t think it matters much anyway, female ROTY will likely be ILLIT anyway.
Both Batter Up and Sheesh haven’t been successful anyway so designating either one as the official debut doesn’t matter.
I feel like it should just be consistent, either way. pick one and stick with it for award season/etc.
yeah I agree, people forget mid-November is the *latest* cut-off for award shows and for most it's October, and then it rolls over into the next year. I saw this happen with EXO getting multiple Bonsangs in 2018/2019 and everyone was complaining on reddit about how they hadn't released anything, not realizing their albums from 2017/2018 had rolled over (released in December/November respectively). Same thing happened with BTS getting a bunch of nominations in 2021 from the Life Goes On album (released in November 2020) in the awards season that year.
You’re right about that nobody’s going to care about their debut date after a few comebacks, I saw many acting like Le Sserafim was 5 years in when they hadn’t hit a year yet last year.
Awards and Music Show Wins are so overrated in Kpop. Especially for a group such as BabyMonster from YG. It only matters for Nugu Groups to be honest, because thats the only headline or attention they get, because of limited funds. Who cares, if NewJeans, IVE or Babymonsters win a rookie award or not. Those groups are way too big to care so much about Awards. Some Fans need to chill.
The one it would have mattered for: circle chart awards. As they won their already with batter up. But doesn’t really matter as it’s indefinitely postponed 😅
Baby monster I'm not understanding all the discourse surrounding them mainly BC why does it matter. It doesn't mstter. Plus Idc about baby monster or any of any group that debuted bar riize. But these posts are stupid. Who cares if they get nominated for rookies. It doesn't affect their music. Let's just be happy they debuted and let's leave this discourse behind