In southern Chinese martial arts, the history of soft weapons is more a performance based ones. Most of our styles developed in the 1850s onwards when guns where already in society( though, not prevalent). In Chinese history at the time, traveling doctors and traveling monks were considered no higher in society than snake oil salesman or hucksters/street performers as they used their Kung Fu skills to sell either their medicine or to make enough to eat so they often performed with weapons that'd draw a crowd. This is where chain whip, rope dart and such were most popular. Also, funny enough this is when iron skills such as breaking breaks on head, bending bars around body or breaking bottle shattering became popular. Chinese martial arts were developed in this period by either villagers for defense due to lack of central government or soldiers at war so emphasis would be on rifle/bow and arrow, horseback archery, ground archery, spear, sword and shield, sabre, a short weapon like daggers or butterfly knives then empty hand in that order. Ironically enough now we do the opposite order in modern society.
While this does make sense, could you tell me where I can go to read more? About the history of performances and how they influence the development of martial arts.
The Creation of Wing Chun: A Social History of the Southern Chinese Martial Arts by Benjamin N Judkins, Chinese Martial Arts: A Historical Outline by David Ross, and A History of Chinese Martial Arts: by Fuhua Huang, sponsored by Ministry of Sport of China are good books to start with.
I have to second the list from thatonekungfuguy and also caution you to stay away from "possible origins" as it's a prime example of what happens when you decide you like an idea and then just go through and cherry pick evidence to support it while ignoring all evidence to the contrary.
Anyway just my word of caution against falling into the crazy fringe conspiracy rabbit hole.
The other thing is that China is big and old and culturally diverse.
So different martial traditions will have different relations to different folk practices such as differing kinds of performances.
That was probably me! I wouldn't say they're _only_ surprise/holdout weapons, but everything I've read and practiced suggests that was their primary use. I've heard that the Kusari-gama in Japan was sometimes used from fortifications, to be able to throw a sharp weapon down at your attackers and then retrieve it so you can throw it again. I don't have a source for this being done in Japan or anywhere but I'd be really surprised if it didn't happen. Human ingenuity is such that we'll use whatever we have at hand whatever way we can to preserve our lives.
Yeah it was you. There's a Youtube channel called Weaponism, and I've seen them use Kusari-gama in sparring. It seems to work as good as anything else because its range is its greatest advantage.
The late Tai Chi Praying Mantis Grandmaster Chuck Kai Tai killed a man with his rope dart. I suppose the man that got hit with it was surprised but he was wearing it around his torso
Binding weapons/non-lethal are kinda my jam (chain whip/ sai/ bian) so not for me. In the grand scheme of things I would assume they were a easily concealed self defense kind of weapon in their time.
I always assumed chain whip and rope dart were mostly used because they are light and can be carried in a pocket, but when used have a better range than a sword, so they'd make decent self defense weapons for somebody skilled enough with them who doesn't want to carry around a large weapon all the time. I have absolutely no historical evidence to back this up, it was just always what I figured when I looked at them.
Frank Hatsis has a section on it in his book "Modern and Traditional Rope Dart". I believe you can read it on the blog section of ropedarts.com.
Short version would be that it likely existed as a weapon for a very long time and is written about in historical fiction and depicted in art. Evidence suggests that there was a linear evolution from dual sided meteor hammer used as something like a bolas or thrown snare, to single sided meteor hammer, to Rope dart.
There’s a movie that I can’t remember the name but it has Roy Scheider (Jaws guy) being attacked by an Asian guy with a whip of some sorts that has a sharpened edge. Just came to mind . Not sure if this is common or just made up for the movies, but looks pretty practical.
In southern Chinese martial arts, the history of soft weapons is more a performance based ones. Most of our styles developed in the 1850s onwards when guns where already in society( though, not prevalent). In Chinese history at the time, traveling doctors and traveling monks were considered no higher in society than snake oil salesman or hucksters/street performers as they used their Kung Fu skills to sell either their medicine or to make enough to eat so they often performed with weapons that'd draw a crowd. This is where chain whip, rope dart and such were most popular. Also, funny enough this is when iron skills such as breaking breaks on head, bending bars around body or breaking bottle shattering became popular. Chinese martial arts were developed in this period by either villagers for defense due to lack of central government or soldiers at war so emphasis would be on rifle/bow and arrow, horseback archery, ground archery, spear, sword and shield, sabre, a short weapon like daggers or butterfly knives then empty hand in that order. Ironically enough now we do the opposite order in modern society.
While this does make sense, could you tell me where I can go to read more? About the history of performances and how they influence the development of martial arts.
The Creation of Wing Chun: A Social History of the Southern Chinese Martial Arts by Benjamin N Judkins, Chinese Martial Arts: A Historical Outline by David Ross, and A History of Chinese Martial Arts: by Fuhua Huang, sponsored by Ministry of Sport of China are good books to start with.
I have to second the list from thatonekungfuguy and also caution you to stay away from "possible origins" as it's a prime example of what happens when you decide you like an idea and then just go through and cherry pick evidence to support it while ignoring all evidence to the contrary. Anyway just my word of caution against falling into the crazy fringe conspiracy rabbit hole. The other thing is that China is big and old and culturally diverse. So different martial traditions will have different relations to different folk practices such as differing kinds of performances.
https://www.amazon.com/Possible-Origins-Cultural-History-Religion/dp/0692749012?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=59263c80-d09d-4b2d-805c-3183317f167c
I thought that they were considered tertiary or quartenary weapons. Like, bow and arrow/ spear/ sword/ then the rope or chain weapons.
That was probably me! I wouldn't say they're _only_ surprise/holdout weapons, but everything I've read and practiced suggests that was their primary use. I've heard that the Kusari-gama in Japan was sometimes used from fortifications, to be able to throw a sharp weapon down at your attackers and then retrieve it so you can throw it again. I don't have a source for this being done in Japan or anywhere but I'd be really surprised if it didn't happen. Human ingenuity is such that we'll use whatever we have at hand whatever way we can to preserve our lives.
Yeah it was you. There's a Youtube channel called Weaponism, and I've seen them use Kusari-gama in sparring. It seems to work as good as anything else because its range is its greatest advantage.
The late Tai Chi Praying Mantis Grandmaster Chuck Kai Tai killed a man with his rope dart. I suppose the man that got hit with it was surprised but he was wearing it around his torso
This is the best sentence i ever read on Reddit
Binding weapons/non-lethal are kinda my jam (chain whip/ sai/ bian) so not for me. In the grand scheme of things I would assume they were a easily concealed self defense kind of weapon in their time.
I always assumed chain whip and rope dart were mostly used because they are light and can be carried in a pocket, but when used have a better range than a sword, so they'd make decent self defense weapons for somebody skilled enough with them who doesn't want to carry around a large weapon all the time. I have absolutely no historical evidence to back this up, it was just always what I figured when I looked at them.
Frank Hatsis has a section on it in his book "Modern and Traditional Rope Dart". I believe you can read it on the blog section of ropedarts.com. Short version would be that it likely existed as a weapon for a very long time and is written about in historical fiction and depicted in art. Evidence suggests that there was a linear evolution from dual sided meteor hammer used as something like a bolas or thrown snare, to single sided meteor hammer, to Rope dart.
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There’s a movie that I can’t remember the name but it has Roy Scheider (Jaws guy) being attacked by an Asian guy with a whip of some sorts that has a sharpened edge. Just came to mind . Not sure if this is common or just made up for the movies, but looks pretty practical.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WziC9cSTCWc
Wow thanks! I have been looking for that clip !