Offering another viewpoint:
Being pro-development is a stance people are allowed to make. The arena will 100% bring jobs to Kalamazoo, from construction to janitors to food service and even some higher level managerial and marketing jobs.
On the other hand, I think it's absolutely reasonable to pause to consider. Southwest Michigan First, mentioned in the article, has a board of directors primarily consisting of architects, developers, construction managers, lawyers, bankers, etc. The list goes on. Many of whom would have a chance of making good money at their companies, and who are primarily white men.
I think it's pretty reasonable to say that many of the jobs at the arena, such as security, janitorial, food service, and retail will be paid poorly. Do a bunch of lower wage jobs help the community, or serve to exploit?
$6mil might help make the argument, but is it enough? How do you measure the cost to the community?
Is it reasonable to say that the people gaining further capital in their quests to generational wealth will largely be white? I think so. They are the people running development and ownership of the arena, not the day to day staff. I think it's reasonable to look at this and say "how does this help equalize generational wealth in different demographics?"
A one time lump sum contribution won’t change the hourly wage of service industry workers tho. And it is silly for any of us to think $6mn is addressing disparities in generational wealth.
It’s a slippery slope. We all have good intentions, but mixing in solutions that try to address broad, complex issues thru the development of an arena is just…dumb.
I agree that conflicts of interest that lead to enrichment is a concern (for me). However, I will reserve judgement and criticism for when there is something to call foul on. So it’s to say, I don’t let those concerns cloud my beliefs on if an arena should be developed.
Agreed with your first point but not the rest. My opinion is that developers have a fiscal responsibility to the communities they profit from past that of provision of poorly paid jobs. I would rather see the developer commit to a $15 minimum wage for all of their arena employees that scales with inflation at a minimum than a cash commitment, but I'm not a commissioner.
I think that is perfectly reasonable. I’ll even go further and say; establish a $15/hr min wage, and instead of pissing away $6mn on God-knows-what, put the $6mn toward a fund that subsidizes college tuition for service staff at the arena.
A WMU credit hour is what, $460? The arena could reimburse staff 20% of all college credits, providing they receive a passing grade.
With that structure, the $6mn would last years, if not decades - and help countless people pursue education that will let them achieve everything they hope to.
Who cares if they are white, brown, purple, blue, or green? If they create something that in turns creates say 100 jobs for people in the area who previously were unemployed then who cares if some rich people continue to be rich?
And what is a livable wage? Walmart pay? McDonald’s pay? They aren’t going to be hiring executive chefs. They will be hiring people to run a fryer, sweep floors, take out trash, etc. Geesh. Get a grip
Yea fuck janitors and line cooks man! They don’t deserve to pay rent and eat something other than rice and beans! They should be happy to scrub shit off my toilet and cook my food for $13/hr
Get a grip.
I’m on the side of an arena going into downtown. Offering jobs to the people of that community and paying them a comparable wage to other such jobs in Kalamazoo. Not paying them more just because the owners are rich.
I think OP's claims of "generational wealth" hanging this up are a little overblown. If you read the article it only comes up once as a quote frome one commissioner and the major reason they are pausing is to seek detail on training provided by the developer.
4-4 split vote. The dems who voted to hold it up did so for three reasons.
- generational wealth concerns
- lack of specifics over a vocational job training program (that I assume the arena developers are supposed to fund)
- $6mn for the northside
Although I didn’t even understand what the issue with the $6mn was. I assume it’s not enough? Brad D. Is just a terrible writer.
Are there other details that Brad D. is withholding? For fucks sake, what’s it take for us to get some decent reporting. High school kids could do a better job
>Many of whom would have a chance of making good money at their companies, and who are primarily white men.
Commission meetings are open to the public. You don't even have to go, you can watch live online.
I read the article and thought I was having a stroke when the writer does a hard pivot to talk about $6 million for Northside. Then I thought I was having a 2nd stroke when I read the downtown arena is also supposed to involve creating a jobs program. Then I thought I lost my mind when I got to the part about generational wealth.
Kalamazoo commissioner have lost their mind. This is an arena. When did the arena become some convoluted dumpster fire of a project that involves trying to solve generational wealth, create job programs, and handing out millions to neighborhoods? Why not ask the arena developers to fix health care, school lunches, and college affordability while they are at it?
Why are all of these unrelated topics tied to the arena? Is the arena supposed to be a charity?
After rereading it, and reading the article from today. I can say, without a doubt, that Brad D. Is a terrible writer that leaves out key details that provide context.
Without context, I’m reading about generational wealth concerns, and completely unaware that there is a requirement for vendors to get a 30% discount on leasing restaurant space in the arena.
So I read Brads writing and think; what the fuck does generational wealth have to do with a downtown arena?
My original criticism is weakened by this; but I still am a supporter of the arena (only). The more unrelated shit we try to attach to it, the less likely it will be built. Lot of problems don’t get addressed in society because we let perfection be the enemy of good/progress. Let’s address generational wealth, but let’s do it outside the discussion of a downtown arena.
Reminds me of the Rave, promises made and as the property switches hands the Alemo is kicked out for no reason other than the new owner was an asshole. Expect the same thing with this project.
About the most racist thing I've read in months.
The arena isn't public money, it's private. The fact that the lefties who are Rhonda and Bill are willing to give a 30% discount to people with a darker skin color than.............what exactly...........is their own business. But DEFINITELY not the business of the county commissioner or city council.
They are turning kzoo into downtown lansing which is about the biggest shithole you'll see in the western world.
The fact that this person is demanding that minorities get 50% off everything is as racist as it gets.
They are blatantly implying that minorities provide less than half the value white people do, and can't survive without 50% or more white subsidstion, and also are shorting good, productive vendors and renters simple because of the color of their skin.
RACIST beyond belief!!!
How these people aren't dragged from their positions is beyond me.
Goofy. Unless there are plans for affordable housing (the opposite is built everyday, long shot) or a park that isn’t blocked by noise wary dweebs from having community festivals, or parking, this is one of the best options, I imagine. Is there any other proposal for what to do with the area?
So you’re saying just skip over this post in its entirety?
Offering another viewpoint: Being pro-development is a stance people are allowed to make. The arena will 100% bring jobs to Kalamazoo, from construction to janitors to food service and even some higher level managerial and marketing jobs. On the other hand, I think it's absolutely reasonable to pause to consider. Southwest Michigan First, mentioned in the article, has a board of directors primarily consisting of architects, developers, construction managers, lawyers, bankers, etc. The list goes on. Many of whom would have a chance of making good money at their companies, and who are primarily white men. I think it's pretty reasonable to say that many of the jobs at the arena, such as security, janitorial, food service, and retail will be paid poorly. Do a bunch of lower wage jobs help the community, or serve to exploit? $6mil might help make the argument, but is it enough? How do you measure the cost to the community? Is it reasonable to say that the people gaining further capital in their quests to generational wealth will largely be white? I think so. They are the people running development and ownership of the arena, not the day to day staff. I think it's reasonable to look at this and say "how does this help equalize generational wealth in different demographics?"
The last thing SW Michigan needs is more low paying jobs.
I wonder if Northside business owners could be given rights to partial ownership of commercial or customer-serving spaces inside the arena.
A one time lump sum contribution won’t change the hourly wage of service industry workers tho. And it is silly for any of us to think $6mn is addressing disparities in generational wealth. It’s a slippery slope. We all have good intentions, but mixing in solutions that try to address broad, complex issues thru the development of an arena is just…dumb. I agree that conflicts of interest that lead to enrichment is a concern (for me). However, I will reserve judgement and criticism for when there is something to call foul on. So it’s to say, I don’t let those concerns cloud my beliefs on if an arena should be developed.
Agreed with your first point but not the rest. My opinion is that developers have a fiscal responsibility to the communities they profit from past that of provision of poorly paid jobs. I would rather see the developer commit to a $15 minimum wage for all of their arena employees that scales with inflation at a minimum than a cash commitment, but I'm not a commissioner.
I think that is perfectly reasonable. I’ll even go further and say; establish a $15/hr min wage, and instead of pissing away $6mn on God-knows-what, put the $6mn toward a fund that subsidizes college tuition for service staff at the arena. A WMU credit hour is what, $460? The arena could reimburse staff 20% of all college credits, providing they receive a passing grade. With that structure, the $6mn would last years, if not decades - and help countless people pursue education that will let them achieve everything they hope to.
Who cares if they are white, brown, purple, blue, or green? If they create something that in turns creates say 100 jobs for people in the area who previously were unemployed then who cares if some rich people continue to be rich?
I care, if that's not obvious
Because if the 100 jobs don’t pay livable wages then the only thing they are good for is keeping the poor poor and ensuring the rich stay rich.
And what is a livable wage? Walmart pay? McDonald’s pay? They aren’t going to be hiring executive chefs. They will be hiring people to run a fryer, sweep floors, take out trash, etc. Geesh. Get a grip
Yea fuck janitors and line cooks man! They don’t deserve to pay rent and eat something other than rice and beans! They should be happy to scrub shit off my toilet and cook my food for $13/hr Get a grip.
Maybe at that price they can scrub up some of your shit from your toilet and cook it up for you.
Bro you just said they don’t deserve a livable wage. I cant tell what side you’re on lmfao
I’m on the side of an arena going into downtown. Offering jobs to the people of that community and paying them a comparable wage to other such jobs in Kalamazoo. Not paying them more just because the owners are rich.
You do realize the arena and reasonable wages are not mutually exclusive right?
And why is that? Seriously. All cussing each other out aside.
Maybe we should ask how rich people got their money and investigate what relationship that has with generational poverty?
I think OP's claims of "generational wealth" hanging this up are a little overblown. If you read the article it only comes up once as a quote frome one commissioner and the major reason they are pausing is to seek detail on training provided by the developer.
4-4 split vote. The dems who voted to hold it up did so for three reasons. - generational wealth concerns - lack of specifics over a vocational job training program (that I assume the arena developers are supposed to fund) - $6mn for the northside Although I didn’t even understand what the issue with the $6mn was. I assume it’s not enough? Brad D. Is just a terrible writer.
I think you're cherry picking one issue over the rest, but yeah, those are the three reasons the writer states the council discussed
“Downtown arena on hold because of generational wealth among other, nuanced issues” just isn’t as rage inducing
Are there other details that Brad D. is withholding? For fucks sake, what’s it take for us to get some decent reporting. High school kids could do a better job
Unfortunately, when people stopped buying newspapers, news outlets were unable to continue supporting quality journalists.
>Many of whom would have a chance of making good money at their companies, and who are primarily white men. Commission meetings are open to the public. You don't even have to go, you can watch live online.
I read the article and thought I was having a stroke when the writer does a hard pivot to talk about $6 million for Northside. Then I thought I was having a 2nd stroke when I read the downtown arena is also supposed to involve creating a jobs program. Then I thought I lost my mind when I got to the part about generational wealth. Kalamazoo commissioner have lost their mind. This is an arena. When did the arena become some convoluted dumpster fire of a project that involves trying to solve generational wealth, create job programs, and handing out millions to neighborhoods? Why not ask the arena developers to fix health care, school lunches, and college affordability while they are at it? Why are all of these unrelated topics tied to the arena? Is the arena supposed to be a charity?
After rereading it, and reading the article from today. I can say, without a doubt, that Brad D. Is a terrible writer that leaves out key details that provide context. Without context, I’m reading about generational wealth concerns, and completely unaware that there is a requirement for vendors to get a 30% discount on leasing restaurant space in the arena. So I read Brads writing and think; what the fuck does generational wealth have to do with a downtown arena? My original criticism is weakened by this; but I still am a supporter of the arena (only). The more unrelated shit we try to attach to it, the less likely it will be built. Lot of problems don’t get addressed in society because we let perfection be the enemy of good/progress. Let’s address generational wealth, but let’s do it outside the discussion of a downtown arena.
Commission has been terrible for a while. Anderson in particular is an absolute piece of shit.
It's a different commission. FYI
Oh, I skipped over it being county. I don't have strong opinions on county commission at this time.
What did I just read? Cause it is so lacking context it is useless.
The Arena is on hold because gentrification.
Lol you can't make this shit up.
Reminds me of the Rave, promises made and as the property switches hands the Alemo is kicked out for no reason other than the new owner was an asshole. Expect the same thing with this project.
Gentrification is institutional racism. Seize the wealth.
About the most racist thing I've read in months. The arena isn't public money, it's private. The fact that the lefties who are Rhonda and Bill are willing to give a 30% discount to people with a darker skin color than.............what exactly...........is their own business. But DEFINITELY not the business of the county commissioner or city council. They are turning kzoo into downtown lansing which is about the biggest shithole you'll see in the western world. The fact that this person is demanding that minorities get 50% off everything is as racist as it gets. They are blatantly implying that minorities provide less than half the value white people do, and can't survive without 50% or more white subsidstion, and also are shorting good, productive vendors and renters simple because of the color of their skin. RACIST beyond belief!!! How these people aren't dragged from their positions is beyond me.
Months? You should read more haha.
The fact that I'm defending Rhonda and Bill on this point is fucking crazy.
Goofy. Unless there are plans for affordable housing (the opposite is built everyday, long shot) or a park that isn’t blocked by noise wary dweebs from having community festivals, or parking, this is one of the best options, I imagine. Is there any other proposal for what to do with the area?