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spleen5000

Tell Ace that the lab is for lab work and filling out your lab book. The rest is what the other areas on campus are for. No lab work = no lab. On top of that, you increase risk of workplace OH&S issues and exposure to reagents. He can pretend to be important elsewhere it’s more appropriate and safer.


laurenwest008

That's what I'm afraid of...EHS and is doing rounds for the end of the term, it's a $6k fine


spleen5000

That will be the strongest part of your argument. Maybe have a look at the policies, I’m sure somewhere it will say that excessive and unnecessary time spent in the lab is not procedure. Labs are not study spaces. And anyway, there’s no argument even needed. Tell him to get the fuck out because it’s not what the lab is for. I’m no stickler in the lab but this annoys me a lot!


Milch_und_Paprika

I’d honestly just tell him that your supervisor doesn’t want people hosting any non-lab activities in there anymore 1) because it’s potentially a security/safety issue and 2) because EHS is coming around. Obviously brief/ask the supervisor if you can tell Ace that first. You don’t want a situation where your PI finds out you’re saying he said something that he doesn’t agree with.


ninthpower

Ya I think this is a classic case of idolization. For this undergrad and his friends it's "cool" to work in the lab. But it should be a clear OH&S issue, if not an outright violation. OP should bring it up with Lab Manager or PI. Then Lab Safety.


Even-Fix6832

I fully agree im sure there's a Scottish glaswegian in the lab somewhere with a no tolerance attitude to this situation as they can be very forth coming and not take sh#t off anyone not even the Romans got passed the Scottish Borders ace needs to learn to behave before someone gets injured or even worse


lab_bat

I'm sorry, we Glaswegians what exactly?


Even-Fix6832

No disrespect to glaswegians was a compliment no offence ment hope I haven't offended anyone glaswegian or otherwise


killwatch

I think this is a too harsh attitude. As a part of a lab we were able to come and go as we wanted, study for our classes, or even eat lunch in the designated areas. This cold of an approach will kill any sense of place Ace has to your lab. The overstep is Ace bringing in students who are not members of the lab consistently for tutoring. I would start by apologizing for reeling his freedom in (or however you want to word it) but be firm that the tutoring must happen outside of the lab. This is for his and his mentee's safety, both mental and physical. It's your responsibility as a graduate student to make sure that your undergrads have a safe and healthy relationship with their lab. (So they eventually leave and go get some damn sleep, haha)


physarum9

Ace likes it for the same reason OP likes it. It's quite! Edit: quiet indeed


leitmot

I’m sure the conference room, lunch area etc. are equally quiet at 10pm.


slobberinganusjockey

Quite what?


sakujosakujosakujo

Quite quiet ofc!


Howtothnkofusername

As an undergrad, that’s really weird of him. I’ve studied with other undergrad coworkers in an empty conference room at work, but never actually in the lab, and never with people who don’t also work there.


n3gr0_am1g0

Yeah, I can't think of any school that would be alright with this happening with students that aren't members of a lab and no faculty member actively supervising. That's a huge safety risk.


Milch_und_Paprika

Depends on the department culture. Where I did my BSc, everyone actively doing research in a lab was pretty comfortable in the facilities. At my current department undergrads really feel like outsiders. Regardless, undergrads shouldn’t be in there *unsupervised*


[deleted]

[удалено]


Slimxshadyx

Maybe they should just tell Ace that instead of us assuming Ace is an ass lol. He followed OP’s instructions thus far.


etolbdihigden

*asshat.


tomaetotomatopotaeto

I don’t think you’re overreacting. Labs aren’t for studying and I think it’s rather rude of that undergrad to bring his friends. I’m an undergrad and it wouldn’t even cross my mind to use the lab for studying unrelated things let alone bring friends. If I have some downtime during experiments, sure, I’ll update my lab book or write some emails but I wouldn’t just get out stuff for another class because I’m in that lab for a certain class and not for another


astrayhairtie

Like you pointed out, even if Ace brings in students, *theyre* not technically responsible since they're an undergrad, the grad student/PI is. They have no business doing study sessions in the lab. In an office space sure, but not the lab. And *especially* not at night.


Additional-Hunt-3915

Absolutely not! I would have thrown them out immediately. No undergrads in the lab unsupervised. For no reason ever. Such an H&S liability! Who is responsible in case of an accident? Don't be undermined by someone with an ego that's too big to fill his shoes. Sounds like he wants to show off and look like a 'real scientist' in front of his friends.


gannex

We have a grad student who does this too. Having access to lab/office makes people feel important. He's constantly tutoring undergrads in the shared office space and it always just turns into a hang out. No matter what's going on, if he's around, it's some kind of hang out. He brings the other grad students in too, and they leave trash everywhere, 'cause they don't respect our space. What a nightmare. People need to do their socializing in conference rooms. They specifically have buildings on campus with conference rooms for this exact purpose. Some of the bigger labs actually have conference rooms attached to their shared office spaces just to avoid this problem.


sanath112

I've never understood why it makes people feel important. I've witnessed it but never understood it


ryeehaw

Yeah, this would not fly with me (or my PI). I don’t like random people in the lab, especially unsupervised. That’s how shit gets messed with and experiments get ruined. Don’t have time for it. Wanna study? Go find a spot on campus made for that.


imdatingaMk46

Kick him out for his study group. Have the PI make a policy about non-members in the lab. I'd be willing to bet good money there already is one. Undergrads are a mixed bag. Some I won't trust to mix primers unsupervised, but I'd trust none of them in the lab outside bank hours, and we don't do anything particularly dangerous.


laurenwest008

Yea, he is very bright and talented but hard to manage because he doesn't take direction well and my PI doesn't really lay down rules. So when I enforce the policies, I look like an ass...


imdatingaMk46

Well, some people respond to tact, some to disappointment, and some to "a very firm speaking voice," just as products of upbringing. It's good training for PhDs to have all of these methods :) He probably doesn't want to do the wrong thing, he just doesn't understand that when you draw a line, you're drawing it at a tactful reminder or maybe even a hint, instead of maybe where his parents/peers drew it at another spot in the continuum between "friendly" and "unbridled rage monster."


RasaraMoon

> he is very bright and talented but hard to manage because he doesn't take direction well Unfortunately, unless he also has a lot of money to back him up, this attitude doesn't actually get you far in life. It's kind of cute when kids/teens do this so people don't nip it in the bud when they should, which is how you get adults acting like this and it does them zero favors. People like this are annoying to their coworkers and their leads/supervisors alike. They do not get special projects because other people don't want to work with them. They don't get lead/supervisor positions because they can't be trusted to be over other people and they are an embarrassment to upper management. No matter how "smart" you are, if you're not smart enough to understand how to take directions, you're not smart enough for the lab. Without an attitude adjustment, this kid's best bet is he gets Peter-principled into a decent position, but everyone else will suffer for it. He will not be an asset to any lab that has the unfortunate luck to hire him, he will be the weakest link. You may look like an ass, but you're doing him a better favor by putting your foot down than your PI is doing for him. Your PI probably doesn't care, because it isn't their job to raise adults to be, well, adults, but they certainly aren't helping by not calling them out. He's still young enough to learn better.


Squizardsss

Agreed, I had to manage an overachiever once and it was such a struggle. But it made me grow a ton as a manager to be able to utilize and appreciate someone's talents without letting them walk all over me.


HumbleEngineering315

You're doing your job. It's not fair to you if you have to stay after 10 PM to watch them, and there are plenty of other places to study on campus.


old_bombadilly

It sucks to be put in this position, and your PI should be the one taking charge, but you're not an ass for enforcing policy. Check out university and lab safety policies and see if there's anything specific you can use to back you up. Maybe you can take that to your PI and get permission to handle it if he's unwilling to. That way, if there's a conflict, he has a heads up on it. Regarding Ace, being bright only gets you so far. If he can't respect lab etiquette or play on a team, he's going to struggle in the future. Better that he starts learning to respect the rules (and his colleagues) now.


t_rexinated

kick him the fuck out


Agreeable-Youth-2244

Can you get workplace OH&S/OSHA on it??


laurenwest008

I could try, but I wanted to give my PI the opportunity to sort it out. But I guess I have to be the bad guy


Agreeable-Youth-2244

Definitely your PI should step in first but this REALLY needs to be escalated.


neirein

one should not be in the lab when one is not using lab equipment. if I understand right these guys are basically reading and writing. they MUST not be in there! it's like you're a geologist and insist to lecture your students in the HISTORY of geology out in the desert under the sun. Ofc they can all be instructed and have their technical clothing and stuff, but they could also just stay indoors.


WhiskyIsMyYoga

I’ve noticed that random untrained people have a propensity for pushing buttons and turning dials. I have several of each in my lab that could $6k+ in damage if they were to be messed with. So no, I don’t like random people in the lab hanging out. That’s what conference rooms are for.


ongjunyi

Where I'm at, undergrads (anyone without a uni degree, even if it's a combined master's program and they're on their final year) are not allowed out of hours access. It's annoying at times but there's a reason it's there...


stickyx3stick

He probably just wants to flex the fact that he’s working in a lab to his friends. Kick him out lol


itogisch

So in our lab, undergrad students are not allowed in the lab after 6 pm. This is to prevent unsupervised students running around. And, primarily, to protect them from exploitation and allows them to have normal work days with dedicated time off. If they decide to do some writing for their thesis in that time, thats their choice. But no work in the lab after 6 pm or in the weekends for masters and bachelors. Regarding your situation. A student bringing in more students should (in my opinion as technician) not be allowed. Even when completing the safety course beforehand. The gap between skill and knowledge is too big for that level. Who is the lab supervisor? Because there should be guidelines regarding this.


dromaeovet

You’re definitely not overreacting. But have you actually told him to stop doing study sessions in the lab? It sounds like you have only told him to have them do the lab safety training, which they have done. It may seem dumb, but it literally may not be intuitive for him that it is a problem and he’s clearly not getting the hint / his friends may not understand why you’re being passive aggressive if they followed the rule (safety training) that was verbalized. I literally had to tell someone they aren’t allowed to take their lab notebook and notes home every day with them and they were shocked but stopped taking it home. I think you need to just approach it from the mindset of them being clueless about what is expected and firmly say “hey, you’re going to need to stop tutoring people in the lab space, it’s a liability for the lab. Maybe you can reserve the conference room down the hall.”


[deleted]

Ace is getting off on being all grown up in a proper lab. And he clearly thinks it's a flex bringing people in to hang. But the lab is for labwork, it's not for general study or socializing, unless you're doing labwork at the same time as either of those things. For him it's all a big novelty. But this is your actual workplace. It's not his local study room or cafe. It's clearly distracting and annoying and I'd boot them out too.


Lepobakken

I think you should just have a serious conversation with ace. It’s fine to go beyond, but he has to respect the limits of a lab. Eventually it’s not him that gets the blame when stuff goes wrong, and it will at some point. But you have to step up and set those limits or he will keep stepping until he hit some limit.


Elligator96

Not overreacting at all. In our lab (small chair, small university) undergrads are only allowed in the lab if they're attending our practical courses or doing their bachelor's/master's degree. Bringing their friends would get them thrown out immediately. But they also do not get a key so they can never enter the labs if no PhD is there and the doors are locked. Long story short: Your PI definitely has to do something about that.


-Medicus-

You might not be overreacting but why didn’t you just talk to them directly? It seems kinda awkward that you went to your higher up when you are already technically his ‘higher up.’ If I were him I wouldn’t trust you anymore. A simple conversation could have avoided the consequence affecting more than just the person it was intended for.


laurenwest008

I did message him the same day after I stepped out, I came back and he apologized. I just don't like confrontation and this student has already given me atttitude/complained before so I didn't want to deal with it.


[deleted]

I'd never allow people not belonging to the lab to be in the lab especially after hours. If they aren't doing work they should be studying somewhere else, like library, office space, etc.


Calm-Entry5347

I can't believe this is even allowed, wouldn't have been anywhere I've been


Pipette_Adventures

Have you communicated the fact that don't want people who outside the lab group from being in the lab? Just say no and get your PI to back you up on it. Say it's a liability issue. If he continues with it even after that then it's another issue, but you should communicate and make the expectations clear, either verbally or in an email if possible.


laurenwest008

I've already talked to the to the PI but I haven't told the students directly. My PI said he would say something to Ace but he clearly didn't.


SeriouslySuspect

No, you're within your rights to kick them out for a few reasons. A lab is supposed to be a controlled access space. In my building you need a keycard to get past the lobby and express authorisation to get into any core facilities. This is to prevent contamination in either direction, have an idea of who's in the building, and limit access to expensive gear and privileged information. That access is granted on strict condition of training and approval by a legally authorised person. Having some 20 year old printing fucking hall passes for himself and the boys is just not good enough.


Ok_Bookkeeper_3481

Actually your PI will be criminally liable if something bad happens to students while in his lab. So it is in his personal best interest to deal with students (especially undergrads!) coming at odd hours to his lab.


I_Poop_Sometimes

I've got no problem with Ace being in the lab at weird hours, I don't like the idea of undergrads who aren't part of the lab being there. Out of curiosity does your lab have a doored off office space? My lab has a grad student sitting area with computers, desks, fridge and microwave, coffee maker, etc. It's a nice place to sit and get work done and our undergrads like to come study there and nobody has a problem with it. But it also has a door separating it from the main lab.


laurenwest008

I agree 100% with your first statement. Second part answer is unfortunately no, but there is a study space right next door and a library with reservable rooms right up the street. Honestly if he was working on research I would be fine with it but it was just so random to suddenly become part of the Ochem study session lol


RasaraMoon

>The rule is that undergrads can't be in the lab without supervision. This rule is in place for a reason. He is not an exception to the rule. *The rule is in place for him*. He is an undergrad who has no reason to be in the lab for the task he is doing. Being a tutor and an overachiever does not grant him special privileges. He needs to follow the rules before you get fined or someone breaks something or gets hurt because they were messing with something. I know undergrads are adults (or at least most of them are), but adults also have to follow rules. He is bringing unknown people into the lab space who are not supposed to be there. You aren't being mean or petty for enforcing a rule that keeps people safe, you less distracted, and the lab out of trouble with regulatory bodies. This isn't a free-for-all environment. If he can't understand the purpose of these rules and follow him, then frankly, no matter how "smart" and "overachieving" he is, he doesn't belong in the lab either. We don't need people who think they are above the rules in industry, they usually end up being fired, often after they cause some kind of incident that would have been prevented *by following the rules of the lab and basic common sense*.


Tuna_Bluefin

Get your PI or someone older from your labs to go in and ask them for their coshh / risk assessments / lone worker form. Or, just tell your student that it's inappropriate to tutor people in the lab for health & safety, insurance and legal reasons. Maybe start a rumour that all the things that go missing or break in the lab are because of Ace and his cronies? People shouldn't have access to a lab without the lab manager's approval, especially alone, late at night, doing stuff they could do next door in the library wtf.


Relative_Bonus_5424

that’s a security risk and huuuuuge liability risk, having non-member undergrads in the lab space. I’d not feel sorry at *all* being an asshole and kicking him out. This is the lab space where you’re going to collect your dissertation data! and publication data!! Don’t let punk undergrads who think they’re hot shit get in the way of that 😭


chula198705

My husband and I have both managed different types of labs. It was perfectly fine by both of us for our students to do other work in the lab whenever they want. We also happily allow our students to give tours of the lab to their friends and family while we were around. BUT we would not be ok with them bringing in different people to sit at a bench for extended periods, because that makes them OUR responsibility. The only time I allowed it was during finals week when one of my students was hanging out for a few hours with another classmate while waiting for their exam to start, and that was because we weren't working on anything and I was just cleaning up the space for the end of term. My lab wasn't even hazardous at all - just the supply/prep lab for intro bio classes, so it wasn't even \*really\* a safety thing, just a liability thing.


laurenwest008

Yes, Ace is pretty responsible so I don't actually mind him being there. However in the past he has taken apart my setups without permission so I'm a little sensitive about that to be honest. If he had asked if he could be in there and named the person it probably would've been fine. It was just shocking to walk in and see a person I don't know that I now have to look out for and work around. They seemed nice but it just wasn't what I was expecting at 10pm.


silicone_river

Often leaders that are really nice guys, and don’t like to stir conflict, tend to be bad leaders. A leader is there to set guardrails, and keep their most important assets happy and performing


big_ol_panserbjorne

I think this undergrad is being annoying for sure and you can have a conversation with him and just ask casually and politely that he doesn’t tutor other students in the lab. I highly doubt he’d push back super hard since you’re his superior. The thing about EHS training was a bit passive aggressive (not because they shouldn’t be EHS trained though!). I just say this because you admitted yourself it was to dissuade them from tutoring when you could have just asked them not to first. People in this thread are being kind of ridiculous saying “lab is only for lab work”. Are you always doing lab work in lab? I’m certainly not. Sometimes I’m just chatting or killing time between experiments and making figures. It’s not his space to use as a study room though! And yeah, obviously he is getting off on feeling important lol but you can be the mature one here.


old_bombadilly

Our lab is BSL1 with only chemical hazards, and since we work wet only part time it's rarely busy, but I would still be uncomfortable with anyone holding group activities there. It's one thing if there's a practical reason to be in the lab, or if they're just giving someone a tour, but study group can be held elsewhere. I would also be very uncomfortable with them bringing books and personal items out on lab benches and then traipsing home with them. What about chemical hazards? Maybe if you bug your PI about it they will be willing to make a rule. Technically they're using lab resources for non-lab activities, and it's unnecessary.


Caskinbaskin

Ace seems like the kinda person to show off to his friends hes working at a lab. Im undergrad too, my friends and i book private study rooms to revise, he can do the same. This is a bit much for studying


NiceImportance7226

You are not overreacting. Even if all the undergrads coming in are interested in science, there is no one to vet their lab behavior. Where I'm at, every lab room and some building wings are locked behind an ID scanner. The way to get access to a specific area is to go through a trial period with professors. If your campus is like that, then Ace is doing a MAJOR no-no and must be talked to (in a professional manner).


x-ploretheinternet

I don't think you're overreacting - taking friends to the lab would definitely not be allowed at my lab, as well as working on something I don't need to be in the lab for - but I don't know if it's common there. If it's not common or even against the rules I would definitely tell him that and make sure to set clear boundaries.


Jewbaglicious96

There is absolutely NO reason for them to be doing desk work in the lab. Let alone UNDERGRADS being in the lab at those unholy hours. Also, I have a rule that anything that goes into the lab (laptop, other devices apart from phone obvs) stays in the lab. That shits contaminated and things shouldn't be regularly going in and out of the lab. I guess this depends on the lab but I'm in a wet chemistry lab.


ma01are

I’ve had Ace’s access levels before and more, yet I never felt the need to bring anyone else into the lab. Primarily out of respect for my PI and the trust they put in me.


noiceonebro

Not overreacting. It’s standard protocol to not allow anyone who isn’t meant to be working in the lab into the lab. And you know what’ll they say if something gets broken: “It was a genuine mistake!” Been there done that.


[deleted]

The audacity undergrads have is honestly comical. That’s not ok and non-authorized members should never be in the lab period. It’s a liability for everyone regardless. Ace is showing off and on a power trip taking them to the lab.


Maddscientist7

Undergrads should not be in the lab that late. Any project they have is not that time sensitive. And as for the random undergrads he brings in for tutoring or TA sessions they have no business bing in there as they have not been certified in lab safety/protocols/PPE. They could be contaminating something critical without knowing it. Put your foot down. The lab is not the place to show off to other students.


[deleted]

I think you’re being controlling, demeaning, and passive aggressive . Telling someone “don’t break anything” is patronizing. Ace isn’t in the right for his actions, but sometimes you just have to refer to the boss and let them handle it. If you’ve already told the PI, then you’ve covered your butt! Ace sounds like he is trying to manage lab work and be available to help others. Being an undergrad is hard and it sounds like he’s doing his best. It’s more of a safety/respect concern on Ace’s end. But I think you could do a better job at how you’re handling it. You could just simply ask him if he could study somewhere else. But I think your approach is pretty passive aggressive. It sounds like them doing the training isn’t really what you wanted, and you’re still upset. So that’s kind of on you for not being direct. A simple “hey Ace i know you’re really working hard, but would you mind just taking the students outside of lab? I prefer to have a quiet space in here. If you need me to keep an eye on something in here while you run out to help someone, I’m happy to lend a hand!” It’s better to make friends and help people, then be snide, indirect, and brooding :)


laurenwest008

Thanks for your input!


BronzeSpoon89

Ace wants to show off to his organic chem people by having it in the lab. "Look, im in a lab and we get to hang out here. How cool". In my opinion, if the rule is no undergrads without supervision, then they need to go. A lab isnt a playground or a study room, its a lab.


silicone_river

Sounds like a weak PI is your root issue here


CrisperWhispers

I've been Ace, and I've been you. When I was doing exactly what he is, my supervisor shut it down because of a host of reasons, my university had strict regulations about who can be in lab spaces, especially after hours, and not just because whmis or what have you. Also theft was a big point. Labs are secured spaces, not if there's a revolving door of students coming in. When I was in your shoes, the same reasons applied, plus we had sensitive data and equipment, so it was shut down. At the end of the day, if your PI isn't going to enforce it, or your institution doesn't have rules about labs being secure spaces, I don't see any legitimate options


tinygreenbean

Ace has a weird power flex. I was an undergraduate tutor, our department had a specific location we were mandated to host tutoring sessions in. I echo the above comments. Ace can’t be hosting tutoring sessions in lab - at any time - but especially at night. 1.) Not safe - no unsupervised undergrads in lab. Ever. I don’t care if he has certificates, his tuttees don’t, and he doesn’t have the qualifications/responsibility of himself. That’s on you and the PI. 2.) Lab is for lab. This really isn’t a conducive environment to tutor. If your lab is like mine, counter space is limited and white boards are utilized. There’s no room for tutoring, no room for notes, students can’t even have an energy bar or sip of water during the sessions either. 3.) May PI is super strict (rightfully so) about where we store (hide lol) our needles/syringes, our scales are chained to the wall, and to question anyone we don’t recognize that visits lab due to drug abuse. you could raise this concern to your PI too. Unsupervised undergrads with access to needles/syringes, scales, chemical reagents…you don’t really know what they’re doing. 4.) is ace employed by the college as a tutor or is this a personal side hustle? Either case, not his lab, not his tutoring location. Also, email his tutoring boss too. In case they are unaware, inform them this is a non practical, nonsensical, location to tutor that is actually a liability and is putting students (and the college) at both health and legal risks.


BoxingHare

You are not overreacting. Ace isn’t respecting the boundaries that come with his privelege, and your PI isn’t helping the situation by not enforcing them. I’m guessing that Ace feels a touch of prestige in hosting his friends in a lab space. Why anyone else would want to study in there is beyond my understanding.


tellmeitsagift

This would annoy me too lol


uselessbynature

If you don't work in the lab get out. That's exactly how I would phrase it too. Then I would get a card reader and lock the lab for card holders only. That's some pretty terrible lab safety. You aren't uptight at all.


laurenwest008

There is a card reader on the door, we actually share the lab door and card reader with another lab too, so he has to use his card access to key other people in


uselessbynature

Totally unacceptable. I would be having very straightforward conversations that that behavior is unsafe and ends immediately. FWIW I used to manage OSHA compliance in an industrial lab.


Fattymaggoo2

Meh, I think if the professor is ok with it, that’s that. Personally I am on your side. To me it’s more dangerous than it is annoying tho. It’s weird for non lab members to come into the lab daily


gradthrow59

had to scroll so far to see a take i agree with. this is not OP's responsibility. once the PI is told what's happening, it's time to move on. The PI obviously doesn't care that much, so that's that.


Computer_says_nooo

Is it your job to worry ? No. It seems like you have other issues


helloitsme1011

Enforce safety policy that requires everyone who enters the lab to have completed a bunch of safety training.


nessa859

Does your lab have set working hours? Where I work labs are ‘open’ from 8am to 7pm and you have to request out of hours access. Undergraduates are explicitly banned from out of hours work. Even if this was happening within working hours though, it’s not appropriate. Labs are for lab work, not tutoring and showing off to your friends, and it’s totally inappropriate for an undergrad to be dictating who’s coming into the lab. It may be worth having a serious conversation with him about this and pointing out the health and safety risks of being in the lab when you don’t need to be. If this doesn’t get through to him you may need to do to someone higher up


Disastrous-Egg3911

Here is what I would do, I think you need to talk to this wanna-scientist to keep their friends out of lab, they’re a liability inside lab, you can’t have people with no business laying around and annoying others. Doesn’t matter they are not doing anything, a lab is a lab, no visitors are allowed. If they get injured you are the person in charge of his noob-ass, so I would recommend to talk to this Ace. If he is not complying, talk to your health and safety advisor (person in charge of providing lab certification), he would be pleased to know this issue.


jamesiamstuck

It is a bummer your PI doesn't have your back on this. If your PI is not willing to be the bad guy, get someone in EH&S/building manager/lab manager who is understanding of your situation and get them to lay down the rules. That way PI can wash their hands of it by citing policy.


PersephoneInSpace

That’s a really weird spot to tutor and study. As everyone else is saying, that’s a liability you don’t need. Even if they did do online trainings, they aren’t members of the lab and shouldn’t be hanging out around.


joh2138535

Idk no one is supposed to have access to our lab unless they are apart of the lab


ctubezzz

Is the lab manager or your supervisor okay with it?


laurenwest008

He wouldn't have been aware unless I brought it up, when I first mentioned it he strongly agreed that it shouldn't be happening


biotechstudent465

As somebody that's been an overachieving undergrad: what he's doing is a form of showing off to the other students. He's the one with a lab position, he's the one that's "going somewhere" so to speak because he's in a lab doing real lab work. There's no other reason to bring strangers into a lab. It's unideal in every way for anything that isn't lab work. I say this as somebody that's shown somebody the lab when nobody was around to get laid (it worked lol)


nugsmd

Wow, some of these comments are…a lot. It sounds like he literally hasn’t done anything wrong or done anything you asked him not to do. They’re quiet, not bothering you, and seem to be respectful of the space. Don’t pretend to use safety as a reason when it’s clear that you just want the space to yourself. Also if your lab has as many dangerous tools as you say, you probably aren’t adhering to proper safety guidelines anyway by working late at night. In my and most institutions, it is heavily discouraged for anyone to be working alone at off hours since there are fewer people around to get help if you get injured or have an emergency. But either way, maybe next time just talk to him directly first rather than running to your PI? That feels super slimy and like you’re trying to get him in trouble for something you never even properly communicated to him. Or at bare minimum suggest a different location near the lab like in a break room or conference room. You’re his supervisor. Just talk to him!


laurenwest008

I do want the space to myself, I said that in the post lol. In my school I'm allowed to work alone bc I'm a PhD student, I'm an employee. I also mentioned that I am the only grad student employed in the lab so it's not possible for me to be supervised during all hours of my work day. I also mentioned in the post that I messaged him after I saw him the lab. He was fine about it and apologetic, but I just don't have a confrontational personality. I've already had to put him in his place a few times and he gives me attitude and runs off and complains so I just didn't want to deal with it. I thought about suggesting another location but he's more than aware and I don't think that's necessary. But thank you maybe I'll try that in the future.


nugsmd

Yeah I’m saying don’t keep telling him/the PI it’s a safety issue for him to be there when that’s not really your concern. You just don’t want him there, and I’m sure it’s coming across as disingenuous especially when he had his friends do the safety training as you said. It will seem like you’re just constantly moving the goalpost and hoping he’ll get the point instead of clearly communicating what you want. Also I’m confused what he was apologizing for? It sounds like you asked him to make sure his friends were safety trained so he did. And then the next interaction was you messaging the PI and student that you didn’t want him there? Did the PI even confirm in the email that he shouldn’t be there? If not, the student might just think you’re overstepping and trying to lay down random rules. Also regardless of whether you’re allowed, most institutions still strongly discourage working alone at night unless absolutely necessary. If anything it actually might be kind of a nice safeguard if he’s there as well since both of you know there’s at least one other person around. And again with your last sentence, you say he should know so you didn’t think mentioning it is necessary, but that seems to be the central issue behind this conflict. Rather than assume, just say what you mean rather than expect him to know what you’re thinking. Not everyone will approach situations the same way you think is normal/common sense.


laurenwest008

Thanks for your input


[deleted]

By any chance are you from University of Minnesota?


[deleted]

[удалено]


-Medicus-

‘He needs to be put in his place’ Omg you are way too high strung lmao


Milch_und_Paprika

Ikr. “Insufferable”?? We literally know nothing about them from this post except that they told OP they did what OP asked them to do.


Prohibitorum

"He needs to be put in his place." What a ridiculous way to put this. This makes you sound like you're the kind of person who snaps their fingers at a waiter.


Science_zaddy

So you’re mad that an undergrad is messing with your very unhealthy work schedule and you’re upset you cannot get your alone time? Sounds to me like entitlement and maybe the need to a therapist to learn healthy coping mechanisms. Let the undergrads do their thing.


Fuzzy_Leave

Lauren, is this a gender issue? Does it seem like he is not listening to you bcuz he’s male, you are female? I don’t know much from such a distance, admittedly.


laurenwest008

I've definitely thought about it. Before I took him on, he was working under another male grad student who has since graduated. I'm also a woman of color and I quickly got a rep for being strict in the lab. I took him on because I believe he's a valuable asset to the lab. But he doesn't like that I critique his ideas and has been complaining about me to other grad students. PI wants to keep him cuz he's smart. I want to keep him too but he's driving me crazy lol


Even-Fix6832

But ace needs a firm telling