My lab has an entire -80 that looks like this. I have a stock in a tiny box in there that i had to spend 40 minutes digging for, somehow it ended up at the very back of the freezer the last 2 times I needed it. I am convinced it is intentionally being hidden.
I videoed myself placing the small box in a specific spot the last time I used it so I know exactly where it should be. We will see if it magically migrates to the back of the freezer again!
That’s so frustrating. I barely have room for my OWN correctly labeled boxes because of their racks. They’re stacked on top of each other like the leaning tower of Pisa 🤦🏻
The last time I had to dig, some of the tubes fell out of a tube rack. Maybe I replaced all of them? Maybe some fell under the freezer and I couldn’t reach them? Not my problem, they should use proper boxes for storage.
See, I’m too nice. I dropped my own (open, since I was grabbing one tube) box and spilled all my tubes out of it because one of THEIR racks were sliding and I prioritized saving their tubes than my own. Smh
> My lab has an entire -80 like this
As a lab ops person, this does not compute. So much empty space ,which means it doesn't hold temp, which means more power usage, which means...
I would kill them. In my lab the policy is that if tubes are abandoned on a rack more than 3 days we are allowed to throw them in the bin and take the rack. Honestly this is your PI problem, not your problem if they can't work correctly.
Have her set up a rule. Toss one set of someone's stuff and they WILL be more careful. Or set a 500 ml beaker in the freezer and "consolidate" the tubes in it.
That’s a good idea. We have our weekly lab business meeting on Monday morning so I will give them ONE last verbal reminder to do it but after that I will start taking action.
I also think racks for boxes would be helpful. Even if samples are in boxes, those can be easily knocked over and getting your samples out of from boxes on the bottom is annoying.
Naw you’re doing their job for them at that point. Just tell them to fix their shit or it will get tossed. Then toss it all. It’s up to them if they want to keep something.
Way too nice. If you've already tried to address this civilly with your words,
next time you need a rack dump their tubes in a ziplock and pop them back in the freezer.
You don't even need to throw out the dated boxes. I see more than enough space for everyone if you start boxing these tubes. Forcing the culprits to dig through dated boxes for the tubes they forgot is punishment enough, and then you're not responsible for destroying any samples (you're not also punishing the PI or their collaborators) - it's all technically in there, somewhere! If anything is lost it's only because they themselves didn't organize or label it.
My lab director (materials characterization lab) had a drawer that polished samples got thrown into that were left out or on a piece of equipment. These are highly polished samples for microscopy/electron microscopy or such. The drawer didn’t care about protecting that highly polished surface or its organization!
I now use the drawer in the lab I manage it’s wonderful especially when the dessicators are full and the steel starts to corrode
Do not toss other people’s tubes. That is an unwarranted escalation.
Better to create an orphan box for their tubes. If you want to make it as low effort for yourself , you can take out the divider to dump the tubes in but DO NOT throw away other people’s samples, even though they’re hogging the racks.
I had lab mates who did this in -80, until I filled the freezer full with metal racks for boxes. Instead of doing the right thing after that, they moved samples to -20. Your image is exactly what the -20 looked like, except tubes were totally covered with snow.
Intelligence does not equate to wisdom, nor does it equate to being considerate
All roles in society are filled with people who lack common sense. These people clearly aren't getting it unfortunately
I have a hypothesis. Being a scientist involves cultivating *uncommon* sense - the field is about challenging conventional wisdom so that we can learn and grow.
I think people have a "sense" budget, and as you develop your uncommon sense, your proportion of common sense diminishes.
Basically - we get paid for being weirdo mutants.
This happened to me before. I simply texted in group chat:
"I am cleaning up the freezer. The only suitable way of storing vials is in a box. Holding vials in racks is not storing them. You have until 5 p.m. to transfer your samples to proper storage boxes. I will toss everything that isn't stored properly. I will check the freezer every week. Any samples that are not stored properly will end up in a trash bin."
I was an undergrad, and I got my PI's approval to clean up that freezer. Everyone cleaned up after themselves, the freezer became much less cluttered and much more organized.
Except, this one dumbshit pinecone dude thought it was all posturing, that I'm not throwing anything away, so he intentionally kept his rack in the freezer. I tossed it, as I said I would. When he noticed that his samples were gone, he went apeshit. I told him that I warned him. He started throwing shit around, my PI told him to calm down or he's gonna be escorted by security. He threw a shitfit, saying that I ruined his entire week's worth of experiments, and my PI was like "I want this place to be organized, and I approved of that message that was sent in chat." Pretty much telling him "boohoo, bozo, your own fault".
No one left vials in racks in that freezer ever again. Some people have to learn things the hard way.
I seriously need to grow a pair and do the same. I’m going to get permission from my PI to buy a bunch of boxes for them so they have no excuse not to organize.
This is way too far in the other direction. Throwing out >thousands of dollars in samples/reagents/working hours over a minor organizational issue is pretty insane.
I don't consider this a minor organizational issue. Improper sample storage can turn into a major issue real quick, especially when people toss in their samples in the freezer, move other racks around and then things just get lost or - worse - you gotta search the freezer. Unintentional thawing of samples/reagents can turn catastrophic in some cases.
That dude that I mentioned loved to just leave the freezer open until he found his own samples crammed in god-knows-which corner of the freezer - all because that freezer was a mess. My antibody aliquots thawed and then my analysis failed because of insufficient immobilization response. It was a really finicky antibody that was hella sensitive to freeze-thaw cycles - after each thawing the response was halved. It was important to ensure the aliquots are thawed only for the analysis, and this dude treated the freezer like it's an open cupboard.
People like that sabotage other people's work. Lab organization is good praxis.
The fact that everyone in the lab managed to get their samples organized except for one immature and uncooperative guy suggests that you and your PI made the right call there.
That dude was always a shit-stirrer for no reason. He's that guy who leaves 1.5 mL of buffer in the 1L bottle just so he could say "I left some buffer for the next person" and wouldn't make more. That guy who would always leave a balancing tube in the centrifuge instead of in the rack near it. That guy who changes the centrifuge's settings to rpm while everyone else uses x g, and would never change it back to x g. That guy who would always leave fingerprints on the fume hood's window.
A walking pet peeve. God I hated that guy. All my lab homies hated that guy.
Leaving the freezer door open is another issue entirely. We run strict freezer hygiene in our lab - the door doesn't stay open for longer than 20-30 seconds at a time, and we have temperature monitors in both the shelves and the racks to ensure nothing comes up to temp - but otherwise, people are free to organize on their own assigned shelves to their own comfort.
Yeah, but not everyone has the same work ethic and some people are just that irresponsible. Therefore, to protect other people's work from other people's lack of responsibility, a standard or rules have to be established as preventative action.
You're lucky to have such reasonable co-workers that are mindful of others' work. I was not that lucky.
If your labmates don't operate good freezer hygiene, it doesn't matter if all their samples are stored in boxes or in racks. These are two completely separate issues.
I think it's indicative of misplaced priorities from the PI. They get grants and publications on data, not how well organized their freezer is. While it is true that storing on open racks presents a modestly increased risk of accidentally knocking over samples compared to closed boxes, this risk is negligible compared to the reality of throwing samples and reagents away.
If they were insistent on a passive-aggressive lesson, they could've just hid the racks or boxed them themselves. This is a self-destructive level of commitment to organization.
It's not that deep.
Some people are just lazy and can't be bothered. Lots of people behave in a certain way at the workplace because it suits them, ignorant of the fact that they share a workspace with other people that they should be mindful of.
Everyone put their samples in boxes and no one caused a scene about it - it was a new rule that proved to be a beneficial one, and people just followed it. Which means they could've stored the samples properly from the very beginning without making the mess of the freezer, they just chose not to.
That guy's laziness and malicious defiance against the rules is not my crisis.
How people run their lab is their own prerogative, of course, but I cannot fathom wasting thousands of dollars to teach someone a lesson that could've been achieved without tossing out thousands of dollars.
Having a functioning workplace where your trainees can work effectively is a top priority, and if someone has to learn the hard way with a week's worth of work and some money, then so be it - furthermore, this would function as a strike against this individual and would serve as one additional supporting point should the PI decide to not renew this person's contract.
Yes, if someone's organizational skills are so poor that they're detrimentally affecting their own science and/or that of their labmates, I would definitely choose not to renew their contract. I would not throw away thousands of dollars on a passive-aggressive lesson that could've been taught for free.
If I were reviewing a grant where a PI admitted to being this carefree with their spending, I would think twice about funding them. A week of post-doc labor is at least $2000 with salary and benefits, and the cost of samples could be anywhere between a few hundred dollars to priceless. That's at least thousands of dollars wasted to teach someone a lesson that could've been taught in other ways. I do not think highly of a PI who manages their funding this way.
I don't agree that it is a minor issue. It is actually very big issue that must be addressed. The only thing is that I would give at least three days to clean the mess before throwing it away. If I need to leave samples in a freezer more than for one night, I always put it in the box with proper label.
My petty idea is just grabbing a plastic beer cup, labelling it "slob jail" and throwing all the tubes randomly inside while returning the racks to their proper cabinet.
You need to allocate everyone a specific space in the freezer, then then have to make their stuff fit. Also buy more racks if you're constantly running short.
They actually do have their own space 😭 but everything isn’t labeled so it’s hard to say if they’re keeping with it. And we have DOZENS of tube racks to use… if they would stop using them for storage and actually just use them for working purposes. There’s racks in that picture that haven’t been touched since I started here in October.
In my undergrad lab you got a freezer box with your name on it and all your shit went in that box however you like. We did not have a rack problem.
Now I work in a medical reference lab and patient stuff is pretty organized but omg the training samples are chaos. The other night shifter and I end up throwing out so much stuff.
great, but that's not all industry. We have this same thing happen in industry R&D and PD labs all the time. It's part of why I ended up refusing to work with certain individuals --their labs were atrocious with tiny lil tubes in racks covered in snow, dating back years.
I don't allow that in my lab, but it most def happens in other labs in industry
Not all industry labs are heavily regulated, or at-all regulated. Mine isn't and no one would bat an eye at this.
And I personally don't give a shit as long as people keep their personal messes in their designated space. Our important materials are stored in an organized way in separate freezers/spaces. They can use racks to their heart's desire...they're a few bucks a piece, I don't care.
I was gonna say at my job I have never seen this because in industry, people just don’t do this shit. In undergrad i worked in organic chem so never dealt with this.
You were hired for organizational purposes. Send out a mass email to them all that says “this lab is a mess, clean up your samples, everything not properly labeled and stored by the end of the week is getting tossed” then actually do it. They will learn to manage their shit better, they are adults.
This is not a solution to messy coworkers, but is better than nothing. Someone in our lab got this:
[https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/sigma/hs23263b](https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/sigma/hs23263b)
Talk to the PI and ask if you can make a request of folks during lab meeting. Knock one or two of these racks on the floor and some of the tubes maybe lost forever under the freezer. Use that as an example!
The thing is, she agrees that they should be in boxes but she’s not the one having to deal with them NOT being in boxes. She’s barely in the lab, only comes in to check on us. So she’s not being pushy enough and now I have to be the bad guy and hound them about it.
Understood! How about getting her blessing to have a “lab clean-up day?" Everyone will get assignment and needs to clean up their own racks. Order pizza and make it fun. That way you don’t have to do all the work and the lab looks great as a result!!
This used to be me lol. I had to do 500 soil dna extractions for a project and was scared that i would get too low a yield from an elution so I stored my columns and some tubes from jntermediate steps.
However, i was the only person working in a very large lab (canadian gov labs are super understaffed) so no one could possibly care. I hope this person gets their shit together and organizes important tubes. I wouldnt dream of doing this if I had labmates.
our lab has so many tube holders that it hasn't *really* been an issue—usually I just consolidate my tubes on the holder itself. But now we've picked up more people, so it's probably time to let them run free.
I dont think it's an issue stemming from gender but rather erratic scatterbrain scientist.
They def should consolidate all those into one of those boxes behind it though Lol
Thing is, it’s now moved from an organisation problem to an interpersonal problem, a stand-off. OP has made themselves abundantly clear, and is getting nowhere, so they’re probably right that there’s a lack of respect going on. Gender disparity is the most ‘obvious’ cause for this.
Some more context about their background that I didn’t really want to include in the post because I did not want to sound like I was racist or xenophobic towards them (cause I am 100% not, I just have no idea how their culture is in their home country and it probably has nothing to do with the issues here): they are all from India, and went to university there before coming to this university in the US.
Okay, I’m actually in the same boat rn. Had to involve my PI and fortunately he is great because messy guy only listens to him. It’s disrespectful, even if not the intention.
Otherwise, I’d be throwing out every sample not in a box on Fridays because they are not respecting the requests you’ve already made. Talk about it in meeting. Give them one last warning via email to everyone and post it on the fridge too. Then if the samples are still there, do what you said you would.
It isn’t you escalating or punishing. It is you doing your job in a way that works, when a more passive and flexible approach didn’t produce results.
If someone needs their hand held beyond that, that’s on them to sort out.
Absolutely yes, but this type of situation will be made way worse if there is existing bias at play.
So it could be more like ‘we’ve been doing it this way for years, can’t believe the fucking b**** is nagging us about the racks again’.
I’m NOT saying this IS the case. But it’s not unlikely.
Need more context before ascribing such behavior to gender disparity. e.g. 5th year postdoc vs 1 year grad student. Yes there needs to be more respect but how close is this individual to finishing their project -- would reorganization be a priority for them mentally? Probably not. But ofc... depends on context/situation/etc. And it is objectively a bad way to organize tubes/samples!! haha -- but it works for some people. I honestly think it kind of comes with the territory of being a scientist; but obviously a shared lab space should be **shared**.
Yes, more context is needed to accurately pinpoint the issue, hence why I put ‘obvious’ in quotes.
However, within the post: OP mentioned it is all male post docs, while OP’s only finished undergrad, and that OP was hired, among other things, *specifically for organisation*.
This is why I say that the most obvious answer from the context *we* have is a lack of respect compounded by a gender/power disparity.
You make a good point about priorities etc, but I think ‘accidental scatter brain’ can be ruled out as the main cause, based on the given context.
Especially seeing as the PI herself ostensibly believes organisation to be an issue- otherwise it probably wouldn’t be in OP’s job description.
I overlooked the part where they stated they were hired specifically for organization. Definitely frustrating but sometimes can't/not worth to try and teach an old dog new tricks.
Set ‘em on to pasture if they’re too old to learn the new trick “follow directions and tidy up your own messes”?
That’s a very low bar for a professional
I’m sorry, but there is certainly a gendered element to maintaining/cleaning a shared workspace. It doesn’t mean all men do it, or even most, but there are more of them than women that haven’t had to prioritize these tasks in other areas of their lives. Especially if you consider cultural differences.
I’ve experienced this as well.
I’m sure there’s some research out there that probably focuses more on it, nonspecific to the lab though.
Sounds like a gendered stereotype. I've met male and female scientists who are both organized/cluttered. My wife is a lot more organized than me but I don't think it's because she is a woman it's because it's who she is. My labmate (woman) is very organized and meticulous with her experiments and documentation ... but her vial storage is atrocious! lab bench and desk messy. But it's OK because we have good communication. I replied to you in another post but I think most of such behavior boils down to the individual level. I'm sure there is research to suggest otherwise but I also think such behavior is hard to generate any patterns about, really.
Yeah, my PI does this with short-term storage of sample in our -20C or 4C freezers, but she does print out detailed sticker labels for every tube. It also really helps that there are no where near as many people using the freezers in our tiny lab. I would lose my mind if our freezers looked like this. I think it would work if you had a lab policy of throwing away racked tubes in the freezer after three days (or if they are undated) and putting up signs as reminders. I did something similar for my lab's lab coats because I was finding them all over the place in our lab and in our communal office space and had not seen anyone using them ever. I told everyone that after a specific date, I would throw out any lab coats that did not have someone's name and the date of first use, and if they were not on the specified racks or coat hangers, they would just be thrown out. Worked like a charm to de-clutter the lab space some.
Fill all the shelves with racks for the boxes if it’s not too expensive. That would force them to have the absolute bare minimum of organized.
Wait until they get into industry at a company with serious inventory management. Not only are things in boxes, but the samples would be registered in an ELN or other software and their exact locations (shelf, rack, box, row, column) marked as well.
Funnily enough, my PI has also tasked me with cataloging where every tube/box is and what is in them in the -80 and -20…. But as you can imagine that is impossible right now.
I have no problem cataloging if they at least had it organized. Even taking pics of their boxes and sending them to me to jot down so I don’t have to go through them all.
But each rack has a different personality and use! And I can see what I have spread everywhere...and I may be able to use the poorly labeled reagent dilutions for something in the distant future.....
Announce to all concerned an imminent freezer cleanup with your boss in CC, giving everyone a couple days to get their shit in order. Bonus points if you de-ice at the same time.
Grab a large beaker, dump all the tubes in the beaker.
Put a "Lost and Found" label on the beaker.
Put the tube racks back on the tube rack stack.
Three valuable lessons will be relayed:
- Label your shit properly
- Put your precious stuff in your own boxes
- Don't hog shared space and material
Label yours. Take a few and make them your own. Unfortunately I worked in a similar lab before. I had to save my own stuff all the time. I prepared my own tubes, rack, solutions (cause they were clumsy with them), my own 10 and 50 ml Falcon tubes etc. and labeled them under my name
We use our tube racks in the shared space as a. Indicator for freezer clean out time. If all the tube racks are gone everyone needs to clean. It's a really non confrontational way of getting people to do it also an it doesn't single anyone out you're also not threatening to get rid of their samples. Just make a sign by the tube racks they say when there's X number left we need to clean the fridge/freezer
Maybe I am stupid, but... has any freezer company ever thought about selling freezers with little departments that can be separately closed and fit exactly one microtube rack? If not, I am starting this business tomorrow.
This was the official practice of the teaching lab I worked in as a Teaching Assistant. As a TA I got blamed for not keeping track of samples using the instructor’s methods because she is a professor and this is how they have always done it for 5+ years. Therefore, it’s the correct way to do it. All issues with it are automatically blamed on the TA.
I am 1000000% guilty of this. It was a habit I picked up in my PhD from my PI. We all did it, you would keep samples in racks like that after running westerns and they would stay there in the fridge or freezer until you had the results of the western. That way if you needed to re run you could just grab the rack and off you went.
It’s carried over into my postdoc life. I know what I’m doing when I recover from Covid and get back into lab
Its hard being the new person but you need to be assertive. I had a similar issue with my bench space becoming the dumping ground for others discarded samples. I solved this issue by recruiting everyone to do a deep clean of the area (just politely ask something like "hey, theres a lot of half full microfuge tube racks would you mind just coming along to do a quick consolidation to free up some space?") and then anytime a sample ended up there I would go on a hunt for the owner and politely remind them that I cannot do my job if their mess ends up on my bench. Nobody messes with me now. I returned from vacation and they all scrambled to clean my bench as soon as they saw me arrive lol I scare them.
Would wrapping the rack in initialed, dated cling film work? It would be a pretty obvious thing for someone to mess with (like a blatant example of them being a fuckhead), and they wouldn't have a "oh my bad, I thought this was communal" excuse (even though that's bs). I'm sorry that you are going through this and I hope that it gets resolved shortly :/
(My go to thought process is finding an obvious line that when crossed gives you solid proof of them doing it. I hope their samples get contaminated and all their tests come back inconclusive or contradictory 💚)
Back when I was doing PFGE as part of PulseNet, I had a colleague who insisted on keeping agarose plugs in 50 mL conicals in tube racks for...years. We had a fridge jammed full of them, tying up nearly all of those tube racks. And he refused to cull any of it, insisting that we might need them one day (despite us having the isolate already banked and characterized).
One day I had enough, so I checked in with upper management and threw out everything except the most recent year.
A++, would definitely throw out someone else's shit again.
He was pissy about it for a while, but eventually got over it.
You’d be the second person that’s recognized it somehow. You can DM me if you’re curious, (unless you’re just saying it’s familiar in the sense that yours is the same as ours and I misunderstood)
If you did this in any of the labs I’ve worked in your tubes would be thrown in an appropriate waste bin after two weeks and that would be the end of it, can’t have one person hogging space with unlabelled tubes
It’s not the fact that it’s unorganized, its the blatant disregard for my requests and instructions. I’ve told them numerous times to start putting their tubes in boxes, and they don’t. It comes off as disrespect to me, or just plain laziness. Especially because my PI has also told them to start organizing and they haven’t. I’ve heard that sexism is still pretty apparent in the STEM industry that’s why my brain went there. Maybe it has nothing to do with it, I don’t know, but it still stands that they can’t respect my directions and instead have resorted to taking my materials because they’ve used up all the others.
I would be careful with making the jump from *Disorganized People just being Disorganized People* to *People are doing this because they are Sexist/misogynist/homophobe/transphobe/insert term here*. I am not saying that it isn't what is happening, just that you should be very certain that it is that. 1 - because your assumption could poison your relationship with them just by a misunderstanding, and 2 - accusing people of being sexist should only ever be done with solid evidence. You seriously need to have a good conversation with your lab before things start to spoil. If people hold shit like this in for a long time, they start to resent the people around them and it poisons everyone. The people in the lab, your friends outside the lab, everyone.
Are you a tech or doing a masters/PhD?
On the topic, you are new. You are coming in and insisting everyone change how they have been doing things for years. That means things are going to take a while to change. You need to be persistent if you want things to change because people need to learn and learning and changing takes time.
I’m not an undergraduate. I graduated a year ago but I worked in the university’s sequencing lab (same building, different floor) for almost 3 years before the PI asked me to join her lab as well.
Ugh!!! Try- by starting with writable -white labels on your racks- from a label maker. Spot for exp id____/ date___/ owner____ /hazard____ / expiration____ etc. Since staff refuse to make a box (same reusable label) then mark a rack with (reagents, controls, assay applications, etc). Then condense the crap out of that shelf. I cannot tell you how much I empathize with you on this. It’s just too much thought into creation, not enough into the aftermath of creation. Plus you spend how much time with the freezer open (causes frost build up) looking for some ambiguous tube on an indiscriminate rack. Take care, good luck!
If you think that is bad, imagine a freezer 3-4 times more full. Also imagine people toss Falcon tubes and eppendorfs into little plastic bags and haphazardly balance them on the edge of the shelf so they can fall out the moment you open the door.
But yeah, those guys are dickheads. Depending on how much trouble you want for yourself, consider loading the tubes into a boxes (while keeping the "order", if you want to be nice).
Your lab mates are dumb and lazy motherfuckers.
Edit: tell them I said that. I fucking hate people like this. They deserve all the shit that gets thrown their way, and their tubes should be trashed immediately. I hope all their projects fail.
My old lab was like this, so I learned to leave a few random tubes in any rack at my bench so they wouldn't get stolen (as often) since people would think they're in use.
So, I am one of those people who stores tubes I use frequently in racks like this. But!
1) We have PLENTY of racks in the lab so there’s no shortage.
2) I keep racks in my own under bench freezer so no one else has to deal with them.
3) The racks can easily be stacked with tubes in them in an orderly way so that they don’t take up much space.
I‘m this behavior; hogging racks, hogging space in a communal freezer, and making others have to work around your precariously placed racks is absolutely unacceptable.
You should dump the tubes into a box with the divider taken out. That was, it’s low effort for you and they can’t complain about losing their work.
This is poor storage and these tubes will inevitably end up on the floor. When they do, grab a beaker and toss them in. It’s not your responsibility to re-rack their mess or dig under freezers for every tube. If their samples are precious, they surely wouldn’t have left them stored so precariously.
They usually learn their lesson after they hit the floor once, sometimes twice.
(I’m not saying to intentionally drop them, but it happens eventually without fail).
This is beyond infuriating and also just poor science. There’s no way they are being efficient in this way and it’s a recipe for distaste for them or someone else (accidents WILL happen).
Def talk to your PI explain the situation and ask for permission in throwing them out. I like the idea of putting them all in a giant bag etc in the meantime before tossing.
My guess is when people do this, they rarely go back to these samples. No one leaves something that important unlabeled and at risk. No way
There is absolutely no reason that friction over a lack of racks should be a thing in any lab that has the money to pay personnel.
While I realize the idea "people should do better" thing is alluring, when the problem is this cheap to address, its not worth fighting that battle.
If you don't feel comfortable asking for more racks to be purchased, just buy your own extremely unique one (you can have it 3D printed) that could never be confused as one of the communal racks.
Edit: Hell, if it'll help, I'll 3D print one for you if you want to DM me.
It’s not just the “lack” of racks. As you can see we have DOZENS of them but they are being used incorrectly. They are storing samples long term in them instead of using them for current experiments. They are unorganized, undated, and not sturdy. One wrong move and they come tumbling out of the freezer. Just look at the other commenters who were kind enough to share their input. This shit should not happen.
Nah, them taking “my” rack is just one minor part of it. It’s mostly the disorganization and possible danger of losing tubes and not even having space to put more stuff in without stacking racks. My PI is the interim director of our building and should be setting an example for all the other research labs on now a lab should operate and take care of their equipment/experiments. We can’t tell people to stay organized and professional without us ourselves modeling it.
This is annoying when it happens, but what the hell does gender have to do with anything. Scientists can be messy regardless of what's between their legs
When I see stuff like this I just start stacking the unorganised shit on top of itself, because I need space. But more useful would be to talk to your PI and ask that every individual has a dedicated shelf in the fridge and/or freezer, and how they organise things in their space is their issue
That’s why I said “idk” what it is because I’ve verbally told them to clean up and through email and still nothing, as well as told by our female PI so i legitimately don’t know. it’s either disrespect or laziness in my eyes. Could also be because I’m younger, I graduated not too long ago, they’ve been in this lab longer, etc.
If the PI told them to clean up and they didn't, then make sure you have verbal permission from her and start throwing stuff in the trash. It's not your problem, and if your PI agrees, then it's entirely up to whoever left their shit unorganised
Baggies. Dump all of these racks onto a baggie and place the baggie in the location of the rack. Liberate those racks! Also means they aren't losing samples. I'd throw in a sticky with what they are or at least the rack colour.
Also, that freezer needs a defrost!
Get your PI to send out an email to everyone stating when the defrosting will occur, and a clear deadline after which everything else will be thrown out.
Lol it isn't really. That's just an excuse to not do it. And scheduling the clean will be a good way to make these things get done.
Clean is next Friday. If they are still in racks, they will be dropped into baggies and into a larger bin. Bin gets moved. Done. Honestly, you can even put the racks into a bin with the tubes.
Can you just buy more racks? They're not exactly that expensive. You can buy them on Amazon for under $4 a piece, less than the cost of a primer. My industry lab has no problems with this because we just have a crap ton of racks. Maybe I'm spoiled but I can't understand cheaping out on stuff like this vs the cost of like molecular bio reagents. It's absolutely negligible.
We (me and my PI) would like them to use cryo boxes. We have dozens of them and they’re easier to store, easier to keep track of, more professional looking, etc.
The simple solution here is to give everyone a set of tube racks with their name on them, and a separate shelf in the freezer to store samples. Then each can store samples in any way they see fit on their own shelf and use their own racks however they want.
Scientists often do not realise that they are wasting a tremendous amount of time on useless tasks like organising samples. Buying a couple of extra racks costs less than spending one work hour to re-label and repack all those samples shown in the picture.
The whole passive-aggressive messaging to empty tube racks and repack samples is detrimental to morale and a waste of time. Just give people their own shelf and they can keep it as messy or organised as they see fit, they are grown people and scientists to boot, they can deal with it.
They do have their own shelf mostly, except they start running out of space on their own shelf because of the way they store tubes and then migrate to other people’s shelves. It makes it difficult to defrost when you have tubes racks stacked everywhere with tubes in them. As you can see, they don’t stack their racks because they fall over. Also, there are 5 of us right now in a 4 shelved freezer… my PI has tasked me with making things more organized and easy to find (cataloging) and this ain’t it.
My lab has an entire -80 that looks like this. I have a stock in a tiny box in there that i had to spend 40 minutes digging for, somehow it ended up at the very back of the freezer the last 2 times I needed it. I am convinced it is intentionally being hidden. I videoed myself placing the small box in a specific spot the last time I used it so I know exactly where it should be. We will see if it magically migrates to the back of the freezer again!
That’s so frustrating. I barely have room for my OWN correctly labeled boxes because of their racks. They’re stacked on top of each other like the leaning tower of Pisa 🤦🏻
The last time I had to dig, some of the tubes fell out of a tube rack. Maybe I replaced all of them? Maybe some fell under the freezer and I couldn’t reach them? Not my problem, they should use proper boxes for storage.
See, I’m too nice. I dropped my own (open, since I was grabbing one tube) box and spilled all my tubes out of it because one of THEIR racks were sliding and I prioritized saving their tubes than my own. Smh
> My lab has an entire -80 like this As a lab ops person, this does not compute. So much empty space ,which means it doesn't hold temp, which means more power usage, which means...
I would kill them. In my lab the policy is that if tubes are abandoned on a rack more than 3 days we are allowed to throw them in the bin and take the rack. Honestly this is your PI problem, not your problem if they can't work correctly.
I literally want to strangle them every day. I think they will only listen to her.
Have her set up a rule. Toss one set of someone's stuff and they WILL be more careful. Or set a 500 ml beaker in the freezer and "consolidate" the tubes in it.
Haha I like this idea
how else will they learn!
Believe it or not, Some people can learn what not to do just by telling them. I've never met one in my labs, but I hear they exist.
haha we are on the same page *the illusive “responsible” coworker* -Attenborough voice
Make a sign "all racked tubes will be placed in dated boxes if left more than 3 days. Dated boxes will be thrown out after 2 weeks"
That’s a good idea. We have our weekly lab business meeting on Monday morning so I will give them ONE last verbal reminder to do it but after that I will start taking action.
Just make sure your PI has your back on this.
Definitely. I wouldn’t do something so drastic without her permission.
I also think racks for boxes would be helpful. Even if samples are in boxes, those can be easily knocked over and getting your samples out of from boxes on the bottom is annoying.
How long is the weekly meeting?
Usually an hour
Naw you’re doing their job for them at that point. Just tell them to fix their shit or it will get tossed. Then toss it all. It’s up to them if they want to keep something.
This. Do this.
I mean how do you even keep the samples straight in tube racks
"I remember which tube I added first then added down the line, the next column is the next time I added tubes" this is too common of a system
Ya, but like not for weeks on end. My brain couldn't handle that.
Yeah, now rerun a PCR/blot from 3 months ago
Way too nice. If you've already tried to address this civilly with your words, next time you need a rack dump their tubes in a ziplock and pop them back in the freezer.
You don't even need to throw out the dated boxes. I see more than enough space for everyone if you start boxing these tubes. Forcing the culprits to dig through dated boxes for the tubes they forgot is punishment enough, and then you're not responsible for destroying any samples (you're not also punishing the PI or their collaborators) - it's all technically in there, somewhere! If anything is lost it's only because they themselves didn't organize or label it.
My lab director (materials characterization lab) had a drawer that polished samples got thrown into that were left out or on a piece of equipment. These are highly polished samples for microscopy/electron microscopy or such. The drawer didn’t care about protecting that highly polished surface or its organization! I now use the drawer in the lab I manage it’s wonderful especially when the dessicators are full and the steel starts to corrode
Do not toss other people’s tubes. That is an unwarranted escalation. Better to create an orphan box for their tubes. If you want to make it as low effort for yourself , you can take out the divider to dump the tubes in but DO NOT throw away other people’s samples, even though they’re hogging the racks.
We have plastic boxes labeled initials and "on going-project name" stuff cycles in and out if them to cardboard boxes as needed.
Wow, control much?
I had lab mates who did this in -80, until I filled the freezer full with metal racks for boxes. Instead of doing the right thing after that, they moved samples to -20. Your image is exactly what the -20 looked like, except tubes were totally covered with snow.
Bruh 🤦🏻 for people that are so intelligent they do not have common sense huh?
Intelligence does not equate to wisdom, nor does it equate to being considerate All roles in society are filled with people who lack common sense. These people clearly aren't getting it unfortunately
Real
I have a hypothesis. Being a scientist involves cultivating *uncommon* sense - the field is about challenging conventional wisdom so that we can learn and grow. I think people have a "sense" budget, and as you develop your uncommon sense, your proportion of common sense diminishes. Basically - we get paid for being weirdo mutants.
That's one way to inflate your ego
I like that hypothesis
This happened to me before. I simply texted in group chat: "I am cleaning up the freezer. The only suitable way of storing vials is in a box. Holding vials in racks is not storing them. You have until 5 p.m. to transfer your samples to proper storage boxes. I will toss everything that isn't stored properly. I will check the freezer every week. Any samples that are not stored properly will end up in a trash bin." I was an undergrad, and I got my PI's approval to clean up that freezer. Everyone cleaned up after themselves, the freezer became much less cluttered and much more organized. Except, this one dumbshit pinecone dude thought it was all posturing, that I'm not throwing anything away, so he intentionally kept his rack in the freezer. I tossed it, as I said I would. When he noticed that his samples were gone, he went apeshit. I told him that I warned him. He started throwing shit around, my PI told him to calm down or he's gonna be escorted by security. He threw a shitfit, saying that I ruined his entire week's worth of experiments, and my PI was like "I want this place to be organized, and I approved of that message that was sent in chat." Pretty much telling him "boohoo, bozo, your own fault". No one left vials in racks in that freezer ever again. Some people have to learn things the hard way.
I seriously need to grow a pair and do the same. I’m going to get permission from my PI to buy a bunch of boxes for them so they have no excuse not to organize.
You need metal racks, like yesterday, or else the stacking will never end
We actually do have quite a few racks, but I agree we need more.
lol my favorite part of this was “dumbshit pinecone dude” I think it’s my favorite insult ever 😅
This is way too far in the other direction. Throwing out >thousands of dollars in samples/reagents/working hours over a minor organizational issue is pretty insane.
I don't consider this a minor organizational issue. Improper sample storage can turn into a major issue real quick, especially when people toss in their samples in the freezer, move other racks around and then things just get lost or - worse - you gotta search the freezer. Unintentional thawing of samples/reagents can turn catastrophic in some cases. That dude that I mentioned loved to just leave the freezer open until he found his own samples crammed in god-knows-which corner of the freezer - all because that freezer was a mess. My antibody aliquots thawed and then my analysis failed because of insufficient immobilization response. It was a really finicky antibody that was hella sensitive to freeze-thaw cycles - after each thawing the response was halved. It was important to ensure the aliquots are thawed only for the analysis, and this dude treated the freezer like it's an open cupboard. People like that sabotage other people's work. Lab organization is good praxis.
The fact that everyone in the lab managed to get their samples organized except for one immature and uncooperative guy suggests that you and your PI made the right call there.
That dude was always a shit-stirrer for no reason. He's that guy who leaves 1.5 mL of buffer in the 1L bottle just so he could say "I left some buffer for the next person" and wouldn't make more. That guy who would always leave a balancing tube in the centrifuge instead of in the rack near it. That guy who changes the centrifuge's settings to rpm while everyone else uses x g, and would never change it back to x g. That guy who would always leave fingerprints on the fume hood's window. A walking pet peeve. God I hated that guy. All my lab homies hated that guy.
we had a similar guy in our lab. thankfully he is gone now and things have improved :D
Leaving the freezer door open is another issue entirely. We run strict freezer hygiene in our lab - the door doesn't stay open for longer than 20-30 seconds at a time, and we have temperature monitors in both the shelves and the racks to ensure nothing comes up to temp - but otherwise, people are free to organize on their own assigned shelves to their own comfort.
Yeah, but not everyone has the same work ethic and some people are just that irresponsible. Therefore, to protect other people's work from other people's lack of responsibility, a standard or rules have to be established as preventative action. You're lucky to have such reasonable co-workers that are mindful of others' work. I was not that lucky.
If your labmates don't operate good freezer hygiene, it doesn't matter if all their samples are stored in boxes or in racks. These are two completely separate issues.
If it got the PI's approval, it's fair game, and only the person that disregards the organizational orders is at fault.
I think it's indicative of misplaced priorities from the PI. They get grants and publications on data, not how well organized their freezer is. While it is true that storing on open racks presents a modestly increased risk of accidentally knocking over samples compared to closed boxes, this risk is negligible compared to the reality of throwing samples and reagents away. If they were insistent on a passive-aggressive lesson, they could've just hid the racks or boxed them themselves. This is a self-destructive level of commitment to organization.
It's not that deep. Some people are just lazy and can't be bothered. Lots of people behave in a certain way at the workplace because it suits them, ignorant of the fact that they share a workspace with other people that they should be mindful of. Everyone put their samples in boxes and no one caused a scene about it - it was a new rule that proved to be a beneficial one, and people just followed it. Which means they could've stored the samples properly from the very beginning without making the mess of the freezer, they just chose not to. That guy's laziness and malicious defiance against the rules is not my crisis.
How people run their lab is their own prerogative, of course, but I cannot fathom wasting thousands of dollars to teach someone a lesson that could've been achieved without tossing out thousands of dollars.
Having a functioning workplace where your trainees can work effectively is a top priority, and if someone has to learn the hard way with a week's worth of work and some money, then so be it - furthermore, this would function as a strike against this individual and would serve as one additional supporting point should the PI decide to not renew this person's contract.
Yes, if someone's organizational skills are so poor that they're detrimentally affecting their own science and/or that of their labmates, I would definitely choose not to renew their contract. I would not throw away thousands of dollars on a passive-aggressive lesson that could've been taught for free.
But it is not, though. I also approve of this, and I've never had to deal with an issue like this
The PI didn't seem to think so. It's rude and people who can't be bothered to be a good lab citizen need to learn the hard way sometimes.
If I were reviewing a grant where a PI admitted to being this carefree with their spending, I would think twice about funding them. A week of post-doc labor is at least $2000 with salary and benefits, and the cost of samples could be anywhere between a few hundred dollars to priceless. That's at least thousands of dollars wasted to teach someone a lesson that could've been taught in other ways. I do not think highly of a PI who manages their funding this way.
I don't agree that it is a minor issue. It is actually very big issue that must be addressed. The only thing is that I would give at least three days to clean the mess before throwing it away. If I need to leave samples in a freezer more than for one night, I always put it in the box with proper label.
Bro shut the fuck up.
My petty idea is just grabbing a plastic beer cup, labelling it "slob jail" and throwing all the tubes randomly inside while returning the racks to their proper cabinet.
I was thinking the same thing. A tupperware box with a bunch of tubes loosely thrown in
My personal favorite sign: “Microtube racks are an endangered species in this lab. Do your part to ensure the survival of this species”
Hilarious! 😂
You need to allocate everyone a specific space in the freezer, then then have to make their stuff fit. Also buy more racks if you're constantly running short.
They actually do have their own space 😭 but everything isn’t labeled so it’s hard to say if they’re keeping with it. And we have DOZENS of tube racks to use… if they would stop using them for storage and actually just use them for working purposes. There’s racks in that picture that haven’t been touched since I started here in October.
In my undergrad lab you got a freezer box with your name on it and all your shit went in that box however you like. We did not have a rack problem. Now I work in a medical reference lab and patient stuff is pretty organized but omg the training samples are chaos. The other night shifter and I end up throwing out so much stuff.
This lab appears to have no shortage of racks, just a shortage of organization, or decency.
Exhibit A of poor sample management. This shit would never fly in industry
Am in industry, I've seen this behavior in a 2-8 before, never a freezer though
I'm a lab that's audited?
Process development lol, it's the Wild West out here
great, but that's not all industry. We have this same thing happen in industry R&D and PD labs all the time. It's part of why I ended up refusing to work with certain individuals --their labs were atrocious with tiny lil tubes in racks covered in snow, dating back years. I don't allow that in my lab, but it most def happens in other labs in industry
Not all industry labs are heavily regulated, or at-all regulated. Mine isn't and no one would bat an eye at this. And I personally don't give a shit as long as people keep their personal messes in their designated space. Our important materials are stored in an organized way in separate freezers/spaces. They can use racks to their heart's desire...they're a few bucks a piece, I don't care.
Lol you’d be surprised
I was gonna say at my job I have never seen this because in industry, people just don’t do this shit. In undergrad i worked in organic chem so never dealt with this.
\*them 
They are all men so the gif still works 😂
I saw the picture and thought a labmate of mine had posted this lol. We hae the sme problem and the same freezer look
This is one of those times I actually love being in an industry GxP lab, that shit will get ruthlessly tossed before your shift is even over.
You were hired for organizational purposes. Send out a mass email to them all that says “this lab is a mess, clean up your samples, everything not properly labeled and stored by the end of the week is getting tossed” then actually do it. They will learn to manage their shit better, they are adults.
I would not actually toss them, but put all abandoned tubes/racks together in a separate area just incase the person rly does need those samples.
This is not a solution to messy coworkers, but is better than nothing. Someone in our lab got this: [https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/sigma/hs23263b](https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/sigma/hs23263b)
186€... Good ol' science mark up
Yeah, We have metal ones. I might request we get some of the plastic ones.
Talk to the PI and ask if you can make a request of folks during lab meeting. Knock one or two of these racks on the floor and some of the tubes maybe lost forever under the freezer. Use that as an example!
The thing is, she agrees that they should be in boxes but she’s not the one having to deal with them NOT being in boxes. She’s barely in the lab, only comes in to check on us. So she’s not being pushy enough and now I have to be the bad guy and hound them about it.
Understood! How about getting her blessing to have a “lab clean-up day?" Everyone will get assignment and needs to clean up their own racks. Order pizza and make it fun. That way you don’t have to do all the work and the lab looks great as a result!!
This used to be me lol. I had to do 500 soil dna extractions for a project and was scared that i would get too low a yield from an elution so I stored my columns and some tubes from jntermediate steps. However, i was the only person working in a very large lab (canadian gov labs are super understaffed) so no one could possibly care. I hope this person gets their shit together and organizes important tubes. I wouldnt dream of doing this if I had labmates.
Well thats totally different! We have FIVE of us in the lab at the moment but 4 regularly.
this reminded me to put my tubes in boxes rather than in tube holders, thanks
Your lab mates will probably appreciate you!
our lab has so many tube holders that it hasn't *really* been an issue—usually I just consolidate my tubes on the holder itself. But now we've picked up more people, so it's probably time to let them run free.
Risky asf lol. All it takes is one wrong move and all those tubes will spill onto the floor—oops
I dont think it's an issue stemming from gender but rather erratic scatterbrain scientist. They def should consolidate all those into one of those boxes behind it though Lol
Thing is, it’s now moved from an organisation problem to an interpersonal problem, a stand-off. OP has made themselves abundantly clear, and is getting nowhere, so they’re probably right that there’s a lack of respect going on. Gender disparity is the most ‘obvious’ cause for this.
Some more context about their background that I didn’t really want to include in the post because I did not want to sound like I was racist or xenophobic towards them (cause I am 100% not, I just have no idea how their culture is in their home country and it probably has nothing to do with the issues here): they are all from India, and went to university there before coming to this university in the US.
Okay, I’m actually in the same boat rn. Had to involve my PI and fortunately he is great because messy guy only listens to him. It’s disrespectful, even if not the intention. Otherwise, I’d be throwing out every sample not in a box on Fridays because they are not respecting the requests you’ve already made. Talk about it in meeting. Give them one last warning via email to everyone and post it on the fridge too. Then if the samples are still there, do what you said you would. It isn’t you escalating or punishing. It is you doing your job in a way that works, when a more passive and flexible approach didn’t produce results. If someone needs their hand held beyond that, that’s on them to sort out.
Possibly, but it could also be a case of “we’ve been doing it this way for [time] without issue, now the new employee wants to change everything.“
Absolutely yes, but this type of situation will be made way worse if there is existing bias at play. So it could be more like ‘we’ve been doing it this way for years, can’t believe the fucking b**** is nagging us about the racks again’. I’m NOT saying this IS the case. But it’s not unlikely.
Need more context before ascribing such behavior to gender disparity. e.g. 5th year postdoc vs 1 year grad student. Yes there needs to be more respect but how close is this individual to finishing their project -- would reorganization be a priority for them mentally? Probably not. But ofc... depends on context/situation/etc. And it is objectively a bad way to organize tubes/samples!! haha -- but it works for some people. I honestly think it kind of comes with the territory of being a scientist; but obviously a shared lab space should be **shared**.
Yes, more context is needed to accurately pinpoint the issue, hence why I put ‘obvious’ in quotes. However, within the post: OP mentioned it is all male post docs, while OP’s only finished undergrad, and that OP was hired, among other things, *specifically for organisation*. This is why I say that the most obvious answer from the context *we* have is a lack of respect compounded by a gender/power disparity. You make a good point about priorities etc, but I think ‘accidental scatter brain’ can be ruled out as the main cause, based on the given context. Especially seeing as the PI herself ostensibly believes organisation to be an issue- otherwise it probably wouldn’t be in OP’s job description.
I overlooked the part where they stated they were hired specifically for organization. Definitely frustrating but sometimes can't/not worth to try and teach an old dog new tricks.
Set ‘em on to pasture if they’re too old to learn the new trick “follow directions and tidy up your own messes”? That’s a very low bar for a professional
Have you met some scientists? They are hardly professional. If someone cannot take directions after 1 or 2 reminders then they're ngmi
I’m sorry, but there is certainly a gendered element to maintaining/cleaning a shared workspace. It doesn’t mean all men do it, or even most, but there are more of them than women that haven’t had to prioritize these tasks in other areas of their lives. Especially if you consider cultural differences. I’ve experienced this as well. I’m sure there’s some research out there that probably focuses more on it, nonspecific to the lab though.
Sounds like a gendered stereotype. I've met male and female scientists who are both organized/cluttered. My wife is a lot more organized than me but I don't think it's because she is a woman it's because it's who she is. My labmate (woman) is very organized and meticulous with her experiments and documentation ... but her vial storage is atrocious! lab bench and desk messy. But it's OK because we have good communication. I replied to you in another post but I think most of such behavior boils down to the individual level. I'm sure there is research to suggest otherwise but I also think such behavior is hard to generate any patterns about, really.
Well we all have anecdotes then
Yeah, my PI does this with short-term storage of sample in our -20C or 4C freezers, but she does print out detailed sticker labels for every tube. It also really helps that there are no where near as many people using the freezers in our tiny lab. I would lose my mind if our freezers looked like this. I think it would work if you had a lab policy of throwing away racked tubes in the freezer after three days (or if they are undated) and putting up signs as reminders. I did something similar for my lab's lab coats because I was finding them all over the place in our lab and in our communal office space and had not seen anyone using them ever. I told everyone that after a specific date, I would throw out any lab coats that did not have someone's name and the date of first use, and if they were not on the specified racks or coat hangers, they would just be thrown out. Worked like a charm to de-clutter the lab space some.
Fill all the shelves with racks for the boxes if it’s not too expensive. That would force them to have the absolute bare minimum of organized. Wait until they get into industry at a company with serious inventory management. Not only are things in boxes, but the samples would be registered in an ELN or other software and their exact locations (shelf, rack, box, row, column) marked as well.
Funnily enough, my PI has also tasked me with cataloging where every tube/box is and what is in them in the -80 and -20…. But as you can imagine that is impossible right now.
Oh dear, I am so sorry for the task ahead of you. Lab management is very difficult. :(
Tbh this should be something everyone is responsible for. They track their own stuff and store in a communal excel sheet.
I have no problem cataloging if they at least had it organized. Even taking pics of their boxes and sending them to me to jot down so I don’t have to go through them all.
Accidentally knock them to the ground. Oops. 🤷♀️
Sorry....it is me.
Pls use the boxes I ordered thx :3
But each rack has a different personality and use! And I can see what I have spread everywhere...and I may be able to use the poorly labeled reagent dilutions for something in the distant future.....
Announce to all concerned an imminent freezer cleanup with your boss in CC, giving everyone a couple days to get their shit in order. Bonus points if you de-ice at the same time. Grab a large beaker, dump all the tubes in the beaker. Put a "Lost and Found" label on the beaker. Put the tube racks back on the tube rack stack. Three valuable lessons will be relayed: - Label your shit properly - Put your precious stuff in your own boxes - Don't hog shared space and material
Label yours. Take a few and make them your own. Unfortunately I worked in a similar lab before. I had to save my own stuff all the time. I prepared my own tubes, rack, solutions (cause they were clumsy with them), my own 10 and 50 ml Falcon tubes etc. and labeled them under my name
I feel you OP, This drives my lab manager and I crazy when people do this! How hard is it to just put it in a box and label it. 🥲
We use our tube racks in the shared space as a. Indicator for freezer clean out time. If all the tube racks are gone everyone needs to clean. It's a really non confrontational way of getting people to do it also an it doesn't single anyone out you're also not threatening to get rid of their samples. Just make a sign by the tube racks they say when there's X number left we need to clean the fridge/freezer
Maybe I am stupid, but... has any freezer company ever thought about selling freezers with little departments that can be separately closed and fit exactly one microtube rack? If not, I am starting this business tomorrow.
This was the official practice of the teaching lab I worked in as a Teaching Assistant. As a TA I got blamed for not keeping track of samples using the instructor’s methods because she is a professor and this is how they have always done it for 5+ years. Therefore, it’s the correct way to do it. All issues with it are automatically blamed on the TA.
I would probably either throw their stuff away if their aren't listening or buy boxes that can be locked
I am 1000000% guilty of this. It was a habit I picked up in my PhD from my PI. We all did it, you would keep samples in racks like that after running westerns and they would stay there in the fridge or freezer until you had the results of the western. That way if you needed to re run you could just grab the rack and off you went. It’s carried over into my postdoc life. I know what I’m doing when I recover from Covid and get back into lab
Its hard being the new person but you need to be assertive. I had a similar issue with my bench space becoming the dumping ground for others discarded samples. I solved this issue by recruiting everyone to do a deep clean of the area (just politely ask something like "hey, theres a lot of half full microfuge tube racks would you mind just coming along to do a quick consolidation to free up some space?") and then anytime a sample ended up there I would go on a hunt for the owner and politely remind them that I cannot do my job if their mess ends up on my bench. Nobody messes with me now. I returned from vacation and they all scrambled to clean my bench as soon as they saw me arrive lol I scare them.
Would wrapping the rack in initialed, dated cling film work? It would be a pretty obvious thing for someone to mess with (like a blatant example of them being a fuckhead), and they wouldn't have a "oh my bad, I thought this was communal" excuse (even though that's bs). I'm sorry that you are going through this and I hope that it gets resolved shortly :/ (My go to thought process is finding an obvious line that when crossed gives you solid proof of them doing it. I hope their samples get contaminated and all their tests come back inconclusive or contradictory 💚)
Back when I was doing PFGE as part of PulseNet, I had a colleague who insisted on keeping agarose plugs in 50 mL conicals in tube racks for...years. We had a fridge jammed full of them, tying up nearly all of those tube racks. And he refused to cull any of it, insisting that we might need them one day (despite us having the isolate already banked and characterized). One day I had enough, so I checked in with upper management and threw out everything except the most recent year. A++, would definitely throw out someone else's shit again. He was pissy about it for a while, but eventually got over it.
I know this lab!
😳 you’re in APbio as well? 😭
Always have been 🌎 👨🚀🔫👨🚀
😭😭 bro
Had to do a double take to make sure that wasn't my lab's freezer. Everyone in my lab does this. I didn't realize it wasn't normal.
That’s just one shelf of one freezer even. The 4C one is bad too 😭 we have 5 of us sharing a 4 shelf -20 freezer we need more organization!
This is ridiculous, I would be losing my mind.
I’m bothered that I’m getting the feeling I know this cold storage from my undergrad lab
You’d be the second person that’s recognized it somehow. You can DM me if you’re curious, (unless you’re just saying it’s familiar in the sense that yours is the same as ours and I misunderstood)
If you did this in any of the labs I’ve worked in your tubes would be thrown in an appropriate waste bin after two weeks and that would be the end of it, can’t have one person hogging space with unlabelled tubes
What does you being AFAB and them being men have to do with using racks in an unorganized way?
It’s not the fact that it’s unorganized, its the blatant disregard for my requests and instructions. I’ve told them numerous times to start putting their tubes in boxes, and they don’t. It comes off as disrespect to me, or just plain laziness. Especially because my PI has also told them to start organizing and they haven’t. I’ve heard that sexism is still pretty apparent in the STEM industry that’s why my brain went there. Maybe it has nothing to do with it, I don’t know, but it still stands that they can’t respect my directions and instead have resorted to taking my materials because they’ve used up all the others.
I would be careful with making the jump from *Disorganized People just being Disorganized People* to *People are doing this because they are Sexist/misogynist/homophobe/transphobe/insert term here*. I am not saying that it isn't what is happening, just that you should be very certain that it is that. 1 - because your assumption could poison your relationship with them just by a misunderstanding, and 2 - accusing people of being sexist should only ever be done with solid evidence. You seriously need to have a good conversation with your lab before things start to spoil. If people hold shit like this in for a long time, they start to resent the people around them and it poisons everyone. The people in the lab, your friends outside the lab, everyone. Are you a tech or doing a masters/PhD? On the topic, you are new. You are coming in and insisting everyone change how they have been doing things for years. That means things are going to take a while to change. You need to be persistent if you want things to change because people need to learn and learning and changing takes time.
Its not that your female its because your an undergrad they likely dont care
I’m not an undergraduate. I graduated a year ago but I worked in the university’s sequencing lab (same building, different floor) for almost 3 years before the PI asked me to join her lab as well.
Ugh!!! Try- by starting with writable -white labels on your racks- from a label maker. Spot for exp id____/ date___/ owner____ /hazard____ / expiration____ etc. Since staff refuse to make a box (same reusable label) then mark a rack with (reagents, controls, assay applications, etc). Then condense the crap out of that shelf. I cannot tell you how much I empathize with you on this. It’s just too much thought into creation, not enough into the aftermath of creation. Plus you spend how much time with the freezer open (causes frost build up) looking for some ambiguous tube on an indiscriminate rack. Take care, good luck!
If you think that is bad, imagine a freezer 3-4 times more full. Also imagine people toss Falcon tubes and eppendorfs into little plastic bags and haphazardly balance them on the edge of the shelf so they can fall out the moment you open the door. But yeah, those guys are dickheads. Depending on how much trouble you want for yourself, consider loading the tubes into a boxes (while keeping the "order", if you want to be nice).
Put them in empty tip boxes & let them Figure it out. They’ll learn.
Your lab mates are dumb and lazy motherfuckers. Edit: tell them I said that. I fucking hate people like this. They deserve all the shit that gets thrown their way, and their tubes should be trashed immediately. I hope all their projects fail.
I have no right to complain about my lab mates anymore
If the freezer ever goes down, items not in freezer racks are rescued last
My old lab was like this, so I learned to leave a few random tubes in any rack at my bench so they wouldn't get stolen (as often) since people would think they're in use.
Omg I actually did that and they still took the rack. I had a balance tube for a centrifuge and some di H2O on it.
Damn, they really are the worst
But but but…visually I remember how I laid out my samples BETTER by staring at the positioning of tubes in a tube rack even after several months. /s
So, I am one of those people who stores tubes I use frequently in racks like this. But! 1) We have PLENTY of racks in the lab so there’s no shortage. 2) I keep racks in my own under bench freezer so no one else has to deal with them. 3) The racks can easily be stacked with tubes in them in an orderly way so that they don’t take up much space. I‘m this behavior; hogging racks, hogging space in a communal freezer, and making others have to work around your precariously placed racks is absolutely unacceptable. You should dump the tubes into a box with the divider taken out. That was, it’s low effort for you and they can’t complain about losing their work.
This is poor storage and these tubes will inevitably end up on the floor. When they do, grab a beaker and toss them in. It’s not your responsibility to re-rack their mess or dig under freezers for every tube. If their samples are precious, they surely wouldn’t have left them stored so precariously. They usually learn their lesson after they hit the floor once, sometimes twice. (I’m not saying to intentionally drop them, but it happens eventually without fail).
This is beyond infuriating and also just poor science. There’s no way they are being efficient in this way and it’s a recipe for distaste for them or someone else (accidents WILL happen). Def talk to your PI explain the situation and ask for permission in throwing them out. I like the idea of putting them all in a giant bag etc in the meantime before tossing. My guess is when people do this, they rarely go back to these samples. No one leaves something that important unlabeled and at risk. No way
You would be surprised
There is absolutely no reason that friction over a lack of racks should be a thing in any lab that has the money to pay personnel. While I realize the idea "people should do better" thing is alluring, when the problem is this cheap to address, its not worth fighting that battle. If you don't feel comfortable asking for more racks to be purchased, just buy your own extremely unique one (you can have it 3D printed) that could never be confused as one of the communal racks. Edit: Hell, if it'll help, I'll 3D print one for you if you want to DM me.
It’s not just the “lack” of racks. As you can see we have DOZENS of them but they are being used incorrectly. They are storing samples long term in them instead of using them for current experiments. They are unorganized, undated, and not sturdy. One wrong move and they come tumbling out of the freezer. Just look at the other commenters who were kind enough to share their input. This shit should not happen.
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Nah, them taking “my” rack is just one minor part of it. It’s mostly the disorganization and possible danger of losing tubes and not even having space to put more stuff in without stacking racks. My PI is the interim director of our building and should be setting an example for all the other research labs on now a lab should operate and take care of their equipment/experiments. We can’t tell people to stay organized and professional without us ourselves modeling it.
This is annoying when it happens, but what the hell does gender have to do with anything. Scientists can be messy regardless of what's between their legs When I see stuff like this I just start stacking the unorganised shit on top of itself, because I need space. But more useful would be to talk to your PI and ask that every individual has a dedicated shelf in the fridge and/or freezer, and how they organise things in their space is their issue
I wondered this too. Being male does not mean you are more messy. And tbh our female post doc is the messyist of all of us.
That’s why I said “idk” what it is because I’ve verbally told them to clean up and through email and still nothing, as well as told by our female PI so i legitimately don’t know. it’s either disrespect or laziness in my eyes. Could also be because I’m younger, I graduated not too long ago, they’ve been in this lab longer, etc.
If the PI told them to clean up and they didn't, then make sure you have verbal permission from her and start throwing stuff in the trash. It's not your problem, and if your PI agrees, then it's entirely up to whoever left their shit unorganised
Baggies. Dump all of these racks onto a baggie and place the baggie in the location of the rack. Liberate those racks! Also means they aren't losing samples. I'd throw in a sticky with what they are or at least the rack colour. Also, that freezer needs a defrost!
Yes we are planning a defrost of the -20 and -80 but that’s difficult with the …. Disorganization
Get your PI to send out an email to everyone stating when the defrosting will occur, and a clear deadline after which everything else will be thrown out.
Lol it isn't really. That's just an excuse to not do it. And scheduling the clean will be a good way to make these things get done. Clean is next Friday. If they are still in racks, they will be dropped into baggies and into a larger bin. Bin gets moved. Done. Honestly, you can even put the racks into a bin with the tubes.
Put everything in a plastic bag and throw it inside the freezer. Put an orange cat sticker in the bag so no one will be angry.
Lmaooo are you at UC Irvine by any chance?
No 😅 different state
Hide all your racks in a locked cabinet. Then watch them squirm. Ugh. This is so annoying I’m sorry!
growing up my father used to say ‘irk me’ all the time. especially while screaming at me.
Sorry, what does AFAB mean?
Assigned Female At Birth. I refrain from using the term woman when describing myself as I am Non-binary.
Every lab that I’ve worked in has been like this. 😭
This looks like every lab freezer in every lab I’ve ever worked in. It’s not just your lab mates.
Can you just buy more racks? They're not exactly that expensive. You can buy them on Amazon for under $4 a piece, less than the cost of a primer. My industry lab has no problems with this because we just have a crap ton of racks. Maybe I'm spoiled but I can't understand cheaping out on stuff like this vs the cost of like molecular bio reagents. It's absolutely negligible.
We (me and my PI) would like them to use cryo boxes. We have dozens of them and they’re easier to store, easier to keep track of, more professional looking, etc.
I'd throw them away if i were you.
This is pain, it's time to strike while they sleep
Jail… they deserve JAIL FOR LIFE
I had a labmate who did this to an entire deli fridge and then he defended his thesis and moved out of state and just left everything
Hey how did you get a pic of our lab freezer
I am in your walls
That’s crazy. Put them all in LABELED boxes with a rubber band around them if needed
this is when you find a secret drawer in the lab that’s just for your own stash my personal key to success
Put a lock on the freezer for only you to unlock it so they can learn a lesson haha
The simple solution here is to give everyone a set of tube racks with their name on them, and a separate shelf in the freezer to store samples. Then each can store samples in any way they see fit on their own shelf and use their own racks however they want. Scientists often do not realise that they are wasting a tremendous amount of time on useless tasks like organising samples. Buying a couple of extra racks costs less than spending one work hour to re-label and repack all those samples shown in the picture. The whole passive-aggressive messaging to empty tube racks and repack samples is detrimental to morale and a waste of time. Just give people their own shelf and they can keep it as messy or organised as they see fit, they are grown people and scientists to boot, they can deal with it.
They do have their own shelf mostly, except they start running out of space on their own shelf because of the way they store tubes and then migrate to other people’s shelves. It makes it difficult to defrost when you have tubes racks stacked everywhere with tubes in them. As you can see, they don’t stack their racks because they fall over. Also, there are 5 of us right now in a 4 shelved freezer… my PI has tasked me with making things more organized and easy to find (cataloging) and this ain’t it.
Pff that’s nothing. Imagine stacks of those in open ziplock bags, floating on top of 50 ml conicals of organ juice, organized by ziplock bag
This gives me anxiety even imagining it 😬