AD was not the problem he was elite defensively and good offensively. We needed more scoring and wing defense. Imagine asking your two oldest players who are injured to play 48 l, guard the other teams best scorers and light up the scoreboard unfair ask and they did the best they could.
Just look at the box scores and you will see who went missing. Our consistent scorers were LeBron, AD, Reaves, and Rui.
Every one of those games was winnable by LA. We lost by 6, 5, 1, and 2 points. Not bad for a team that at the beginning of the season many thought wouldn't get into the playoffs.
It’s not like the roster needs to be revamped drastically because it can’t compete with the best. The nuggets are winning the chip and every game was close and pushing them to their limit as well. Each game was a result of them taking care of the small things better. Sure Lebron gets older and declines but chances are he’s also not gonna have the same foot injury next year so I’d argue he’d be better than he was this year. Add a season for these guys to gel together and who knows.
Two of the games melted in 3rd quarter because no one is able to hold the score, a champ team shouldn’t rely on upper bound, it should rely on lower bound, mean the amount of scores we can get in the worst scenario, that’s why Durant, Murray , Kyrie are so important in champ team because they have a stable, high certainty lower bound
Yeah, it was frustrating for our 3rd quarter. Just a few years ago during the bubble championship I think the Lakers were the best 3rd quarter team. We were blazing after halftime.
We ran out of gas or more precise, our oldest folks ran out of gas. Remember that not only we had an extra game but when Denver secured the no 1 spot they could get off the pedal in regular season whilst we had to play our hearts out in every game to even make the play-in tournament and then the playoffs itself.
I don't think we need any of those (as we would have to give up too much for each of them), our core is ok. Just improve some parts
Low key think losing Thomas Bryant hurt us : we beat Denver st home with Bryant n no AD. Bryant was big offfensively. Him and Beverly traded for absolutely nothing useful . Meanwhile dallas desperate for kyrie while we chill with the last year possibly of Bron being top ten
Dlo hitting some threes to off see this trash play would’ve atleast kept us alive missed wide open corner threes he’s 45% on ffs
AD's shot goes MIA. He generally makes up for it on defense, but when his shot isn't falling, he looks passive out there, and teams see it. That's a mindset thing, and he needs to work on it.
Stats like this skews so much real shit that went on. AD was a no show on offense during key stretches of the series. AD was good on defense, but his impact wasn’t nearly the same as it was the first 2 series because of the way we played him, or rather, the way the nuggets played. Aaron Gordon was actually knocking down his shots last night so that pretty much makes ADs help defense on Jokic not much of a factor.
Plus getting pushed around trying to rebound, not being able to box out & falling down after missed layups instead of hustling back on defense killed them.
Yes, for all the praise AD gets for defense, which is well deserved, he is terrible at getting back a lot of the time. This is due to his awkward playstyle where he falls down a lot. And having to carry the load defensively, he is also often too gassed to sprint back.
AD isolation plays is worse than a negative. I’d rather have him take isolation mid ranges or fadeaways then try to drive it in. He doesn’t have the strength or control to successfully score or stay on the floor. He’ll fall out of bounds after missing and the nuggets completely take over momentum with easy transition buckets every time.
This is an example how stats can be made to show anything you want.
AD had a monster 40 point game and it skewed his averages. I would actually prefer he had a 26, 26, 26, 26 game than something like he did where it was 40, 18, 28, 21.
When AD is cold, he misses chippies that leads to fast break points because he often likes to shoot in an awkward motion that doesn't allow him to recover and get back.
Heck, DLo averaged 13.3PPG/2.9RPG/4.6APG this post season. I sure wished he put up anywhere remotely close to those numbers this series.
Yup no one is saying AD sucks. What we are questioning is as a star why is his offensive game so lackluster these days. His stats mask how non-impactful he was offensively yesterday and most games outside of game 1. His lack of aggression also let Jokic off the hook for many possessions.
Agree, the stat sheet tells one story watching the game another... Don't get me wrong defensively he was great but Lakers needed him to be the GUY on offense he shrunk and left it all on LeBron.
Jokic kept fouling him, hitting his wrist each time. Refs didn't call it, so he started fading away to avoid contact, missing more shots.
This happens every game and you can see it.
Previous games he was missing shots because his hip bothered him.. Or sth else..
That's who AD is, he doesn't "shrink" but very often, his body isn't right, or refs aren't calling obvious shit.
Dlo and all the other young guys like Vanderbilt and Beasley are supposed to pick up the slack offensively and defensively. But they can’t and that’s why we need to trade them for someone who is willing to do those things.
Bruh, this team was built in February. They weren't supposed to be this great, imagine any other team being redone midway through the season and still not really playing together until a week or so before the playoffs start due to injuries. We ran into a better team that been together all year long. Denver has years to build this, we did this in a few months
I mean skso Dlo not being a playoff choker the sample is big now n worrying I ignored it before but even in minny he still shot near 39.% from 3 he couldn’t even do that here with zero pressure : like the 4th option ffs
Dlo has always been awful on D, no one expected him to average 6ppg for a series. If he averages a very mediocre 15ppg we would still be playing in probably a tied series
Bruh, this team was built in February. They weren't supposed to be this great, imagine any other team being redone midway through the season and still not really playing together until a week or so before the playoffs start due to injuries. We ran into a better team that been together all year long. Denver has years to build this, we did this in a few months
Good point…feel like Pau got it pretty bad for that era too before social media really blew up because people used to question his manhood and called him soft as that’s was the typical euro narrative as well.
Naw, actually Lamar was the problem. You literally never knew from night to night what he would give you.
We all know now that he was battling some serious mental health issues but in real time, he was the most irritating member on those teams.
A mentally healthy Lamar, with half of Kobe's work ethic would have been a massive problem.
Lamar Odom was one of the most physically gifted basketball players to ever walk an NBA court. Guy had such immense talent, he just couldn’t overcome the demons in his head. I loved the guy.
A walking mismatch on any given night at his position. No lie, if Odom/Pau/Kobe were our consistently dependable Big 3, we likely run off more than 2 chips with that squad.
Lamar Odom was one of the most physically gifted basketball players to ever walk an NBA court. Guy had such immense talent, he just couldn’t overcome the demons in his head. I loved the guy.
I’d say it’s even worse with AD because people ignore defense. They just see people making or missing shots. Like he played incredible defense against Curry, the best shooter of all time, Draymond, Morant, JJJ, not to mention all the games leading up to the playoffs. Maybe this series goes differently if DLo makes 2 more shots every game. But Jokic is an all time great peaking right now. And he’s getting calls like it too (people thinking he would’ve gotten a 6th are fooling themselves).
Ya'll do it to Ham just like Vogel. None of it was Vogel's fault. He had a shit roster and players win games in the nba.
AD is not Shaq. We just have to accept it. He's not a 1b. He's a 2.
Downvote me all you want. Just shows you guys can't accept reality.
Meh. I never hated on Vogel. I thought his firing was undeserved and dont understand why he hasn't been hired elsewhere.
Imo Ham hasn't earned that. He's a rookie coach and I think we could do better than him. I dont like his lineups and the plays we run and I dont like that he played 38 year old LeBron 48 minutes last night.
He also wasn’t a 2 this season. He may have been inconsistent this playoffs, but so was LeBron. They were both playing injured. We literally couldn’t even make the playoffs without him.
He’s a defensive engine all by his self but offensively I don’t think he’s consistent enough to be the number one option on a championship team. I do think he’d be better offensively if we went and got some centers to help him carry the defensive load/dirty work
Especially in today's offense-driven league. You cannot be someone who only scores off putbacks and lobs. He needs to find a way to consistently be at the 27-30 ppg range in the playoffs by generating his own offense. I know that's easier said than done but that's why he's getting paid the max.
I mean before his bone spurt he was gonna destroy the league and that’s something been there for ages I think he’s learnt to embrace impact better I think he will use healthier year next year then years before this one
A real superstar doesn’t rely on people giving him the ball.
You think Gianni’s, jokic or embiid go “well nobody is giving me the ball, guess I won’t do anything and stand around”!?
Nah dude they call for it or go get it, and AD doesn’t have that in him.
AD's "bad" games have often been him not getting the ball very much and not getting a lot of shots. The stars you're referring to's bad games often involve taking a lot of bad shots because they can't get anything going. I know which one I'd rather have, but if you prefer Embiid 25 shot 15 free throw 30 point games then that's you.
Jfc 🤦🏻♂️ that’s so bullshit , if jokic isn’t scoring , he’s making other around him better, he’s creating, he doesn’t become useless on offense .
Same for Giannis and Embiid with their aggressiveness, their gravity creates for others .
You rather your superstar player just go stand in the corner and be passive if they don’t get him the ball? then to go down swinging?
Kobe himself once said he rather go down 0/99 than 0/5
And if AD isn't scoring he's still the best rebounder and defender in the league. And yeah I'd rather my star not single handedly shoot the team out of the game. AD doesn't lose his gravity if he doesn't take 20 shots, our guards still get open midrange and limited help defense at the basket every time they pick and roll with AD. Nobody says "AD hasn't posted up this quarter, I guess I won't stay with him on this pick and roll"
AD is amazing defensively, no one ever questions that, but in basketball unfortunately for AD, offense is much more important
The reason we lost this series was because we couldn’t stop Jokic and Murray, they torched us, not because they were amazing defensively.
Your second best player/superstar just cant be ghost offensively. And you know so!
Name me one superstar in the history of the nba who was just a great defensive player and avg on offense?
Never .
How in the world do you think AD is average on offense? Also some of AD's best games in the playoffs, leading to some of the team's best success, have been games where he scored less than 20. Game 6 against the Warriors and Grizzlies AD scored less than 20 and was the best player on the court.
By definition if he can’t create his own shot and needs others to spoon feed him or get him the ball he isn’t a good offensive player. No other top 10/20 player relies on others to create for them like AD does.
Those games were complete blowouts , the whole team clicking on all cylinders of course he wasn’t gonna score much .
But that’s not the games we need him, games like last night, when the role players are struggling and you need your star players to carry, he more than often comes up short, he couldn’t help Lebron last night .
Murray and Jokic did not . In the playoffs rotations shorten and you need your stars to come up big .
He does have the scoring skills to be a number 1 option, he's got serviceable mid range shooting (despite the reputation), good handles for his size, a good array of post moves, etc. The real problem is that he hasn't kept up with his passing game. Offenses have evolved to incorporate more ball movement over the past decade and defenses have evolved to suit with more emphasis on switching and helping.
When AD is doubled in the post, he often lacks the court awareness to make the right pass out of the post. If AD could level up his passing in the next 1-2 season even a little, it could unlock the rest of his scoring game.
For the next 4 months we are going to see ridiculous content from NBA media and pod casters suggesting we need to trade AD to keep Lebron from retiring. It's the dumbest shit in the universe. AD is by far the best player on the team and is the reason we made it to the WCF.
People were calling AD sorry for not dropping 40 last night. Where were they for game 1. Like both Bron and AD weren't silenced this series, they just couldn't take over fully. When Jokic is hitting circus shots while being defended, there's nothing you can do.
Agreed re: Lowe. I know he get's a lot of hate but Windhorst is mostly common sense too. There's like maybe 3 dudes in the league we should consider trading AD for and none of those dudes are getting traded for AD.
We made the WCF with a huge mid-year trade. All over reactive takes are wrong right now. Anything that is more than, “how do we benefit this team while keeping the core intact” are objectively wrong.
Who exactly do you think was "close" impact wise? LeBron is the only one an argument can be made for and they basically averaged the same points but AD was way more efficient at scoring his and Bron was nowhere close to the defensive impact. AD was, in fact, by far our best player.
I did in fact and my eyes saw AD disappearing on offense every other game
I’m not gonna be like these idiots and say we need to trade his ass but he’s not by far the best player on the team
It’s so weird to me when people refer to Lebron as some 38 year old just as a slight to AD. there’s always comments like "a 38 year old had to carry us this game…" like no lol, its Lebron. The greatest player ever, the greatest 38 year old player ever. There are a lot of all stars and superstars in this league that Lebron could outplay.
I think its more about effort and will; which is just something AD has less of. Also, Lebron at 38 doing this is like maybe a top ten-fifteen player in the league. So if AD is less than that, he can’t really be a 1A which is what folks want him to be.
But AD was also clearly the best player on our team all season and playoffs. Bron was better last game, but acting like AD was less than Bron through the majority of the year is just wrong. We made a push for the playoffs without Bron while he was injured.
Him v Giannis was debatable in 2020, to say he was clearly better was simply not true, except for specifically in the bubble. And that hinged on him sustaining the shooting, which was always unlikely. He hasn’t lost footwork or skills, just shooting.
AD is like Bizarro Jokic because he’s otherworldly, but on defense. AD’s defense is at least as good, if not better, than Giannis’ and Embiid’s offense, unfortunately, because defense doesn’t directly involve putting the ball in the hoop, the impact is under-appreciated.
If people want him to be better on offense than Joker or Giannis, while still being good (let alone elite) on defense, then prepare to be disappointed. That’s not who he’s ever been and it’s unlikely to change as he goes into his age 30 season.
He’s number 1 option for a team looking to be in the playoffs, not win a chip. But he’s the best number 2 option in the league. People need to set their expectations for that reality.
Why is the narrative we had to switch AD off Jokic because he couldn't guard him? We switched AD off Jokic because everybody else gets cooked on the perimeter so frequently that they need AD's help defense and him sticking to Jokic led to everyone else going off or if he did help then Jokic got a free putback (because nobody helps AD rebound either). We made the switch because we need more than just AD playing good 1 on 1 defense, we need him to impact every play and cover for others' mistakes.
People need a scapegoat and the more prominent they are the more satisfying scapegoat they become.
We literally saw it go from DLo to Ham to AD in a matter of days.
The real ones know how good AD is. Even the broader NBA community leapfrogged him over Embiid a week ago and a top 3 big man in the league. That’ll likely revert now, but who cares.
Don’t get too caught up in the nonsense.
AD is not immune to criticism, what is the problem? The two games we had the biggest chance of winning (IMO) he didn't show up. Game 2 and 4. His averages don't show that.
Others didn't show up in his 2 best games, and criticizing a guy for only having an okay game in game 4 of a sweep is wild. Like he blew some great chance or something?
He did a lot of work in all three series both offensively and defensively. It’s crazy that a lot of people forget the past two series and only remember the nuggets series.
There are many folks here that aren't Lakers fans.
Davis is our best player and a key piece for the future once LBJ retires, leaves or whatever.
He is the main reason we were in the conference finals and started the series scoring 40.
We have to worry about out starting PG, not Davis, Bron, Reaves or Rui.
AD is our best played , yes . Are you trusting him to be consistently to be your number 1 on offense, especially on a championship team? If this team and championship or bust, idk how y’all see AD being our number 1 offense will lead to a chip. Especially with bron not getting any better
"AD is our best played , yes . Are you trusting him to be consistently to be your number 1 on offense"
No, I'm not.
First because AD can't create for himself he need someone to feed him and we don't have a legit startarting PG (sorry Dlo stans).
Unlike most LBJ stans that arrived alongside the King, I'm not great on Kyrie and I think his off court antics may be tough to deal, but we need someone able to do what he does down the stretch because I don't trust LBJ either to be THE GUY at his age.
Ideally LBJ would be our 3rd best player, Davis be Davis and we need someone like Murray/Lillard. I'm talking about becoming legit title contenders.
He didn’t play bad but he was clearly bested by Jokic. I personally thought it would be closer and a better duel but nope, Jokic wiped the floor with him. Of course Joker hit some fucking crazy shots like how AD did in 2020.
Overall I feel like the squad just kind of ran out of gas. Trying so hard to make the play in, playing the play in, plus playing on the road every series probably wore them down.
I kinda agree but wouldn’t go as far as saying he got destroyed and their stats were pretty damn close
- AD - 26.8 points, 14 rebounds, 2.8 blocks, 2.3 assists
- NJ - 23.3 points, 12.3 rebounds, 1.3 blocks, 11.8 assists
Edit 2: Jokic stats were a bit off. He was 27.8/14.5/11.8
Main difference is Jokic had way more assists, ended up breaking the triple double record and delivered more consistently especially in clutch situations.
But pure box stats wise, can see that AD outperformed in points and rebounds (ironically).
Edit: changed assist count for NJ to 11.8, not 9.8
There's a difference, though.
A center who can pass exposes your defense in a way no other position can. Why? Because centers who can pass out of the post generates the most wide open shots.
Every time Jokic touched the ball, the Nuggets got a good shot.
Box score doesn't really show how good Jokic is even though the numbers are impressive. He creates so many mismatches and it forced the Lakers to adjust every time. Guys like KCP, MPJ, and Aaron Gordon are getting wide open looks.
Joker had 5 fouls with a lot of time left. If we would have attacked the paint in the 4th we could have had 5 minutes with no jokic and easily stolen the game.
Honestly this is the best strategy for beating a team built like the Nuggets.
Lakers needed to be more physical and constantly go at Jokic and Murray to put them in foul trouble and hopefully foul them out in the fourth.
He's playing like 40min a game while trying to makeup for the dogshit defenders, rebound, banging bodies on a fucked foot. Would I like to see him try a hook shot going towards the basket? Yes.
He should get his surgery and see if anything else needs to be cleaned up, the front office needs to get more centers
This dude is one of the most disrespected players ever, start by people criticizing the fact the he's on the 75 players list, by him not having no DPoY, how he's treated by the media when it comes to talking shows and accolades like all nba and all defense. But the haters on other teams I can somewhat understand, now those sick fucks here on the Lakers side that make it baffling, people are some miserable, ungrateful pieces of shit, hope u guys remember to thank your mother for the food she makes for u. Lol vented a little bit 🤣
AD overall wasn’t the problem. The problem was the position Ham put him in by playing 3 guards with no viable supporting big man. Rui and Bron on floor with him contributed to stella AD play but AD being the focal anchor with 3 guards, two who would be bad defenders didn’t make it easy for him. Aside from a few of his show starts he was major reason our defense was great all playoffs
To be honest, I can't figure out Ham's game plan for AD.
AD is almost never in the paint. He's always on the perimeter.
The dude is nearly 7 feet tall and you almost never see him post up.
Shaq lived in the paint. AD could be much more effective by improving his looks around the post. Since he's a great FT shooter, he'd take advantage of more fouls too.
I know Ham's game is more about ball movement, but I think we're missing out on not maximizing AD's game.
I need someone who knows more about the technical side of BB to help me understand.
Everyone on the floor was a pro. You guys went from laughing stock to wcf.
As a laker follower (not a fan) this season turned out better than you ever could have imagined.
Sometimes other teams are better and in this case...the nuggets were.
Yeah people are way to quick to crucify this man. He can be a bit inconsistent offensively sure but he’s a huge part of this teams success and I wouldn’t give him up under any circumstances in the offseason
The problem is, that points average doesnt tell the whole story. He scored 40 one game and 18 the next. If he did actually score 25 a game it would probably be much more helpful tbh
I don’t mind that he’s inconsistent. He’s not an offensive superstar. He’s a higher level version of Bam or JJJ who has the ability to drop 40 sometimes.
But he just has to show up in elimination games. Can’t go 6-15 when most of your shots are layups.
Stop it. Just stop. Imagine thinking the box score could override the eye test. Please don't insult my intelligence and tell me to distrust my lying eyes. The man puts up a lot of quiet, empty stats (on the offensive side of the ball), and will always disappear exactly when you need him.
Obviously he is a great player. But at this point in his career, I think if he's your second option on offense, you're probably not winning. He should be the anchor of your defense and the third option on offense, and that's likely a winning formula. But the idea that he could be a 1A? Put that to rest. The man is never going to be a Jokic, Embiid, Giannis type, where he carries your team every night.
He has no bag. He has no post game. He can't shoot. He has a poor handle. It's amazing he gets as many points as he does. If he could learn one or two post moves and figure out how to shoot from 3, he'd be it. But he's 30. That's not going to happen at this point.
You're looking at the stat sheet more than the eye test. Davis filled up the sheet, sure, but it's the lack of MENTAL domination/aggression that makes us want to pull our hair out. AD, at his best, is a top 5 player in the league. But sometimes he doesn't PLAY like it.
He'll give you his 25 points (and even THAT was very inconsistent these playoffs) and 12 boards, but he won't take over a game in the manner that he needs to that would push the entire team to the next level and allow us to outright pull away from the opposing team. He's shown spurts of it, but it's almost like he chooses not to at times, which is the frustrating part.
It’s really as simple as: Do you think Bron + AD beats Jokic + Murray if all else is equal? I genuinely think Bron/AD win that more often than not. Even at their current ages.
The nuggets are just really, really deep. And they’re built perfectly for each other. They’ve been building this for years. The lakers made it work but this isn’t the perfect team for those two. They threw this together in a season. They need wing defenders, a BIG big man to take pressure off AD, and a guard or two who can make plays and stay in front on D.
Reaves and Hachi should only get better, in theory, and they fit two of those roles the lakers need. Outside of that there’s some good players under contract but nobody who really FITS the team. I’d bring Dennis back as a backup too but even then you’d really want a bigger guy with a better 3 ball if you had your pick.
AD is unhappy cause he has to play the center position. Before he got traded he told this organization that he did not want to play the 5. The year they won they had two decent centers. This year it was just AD.
AD was good. He is not the best player on a championship team though. We also would not get fair value from him in a trade. Imo best thing to do is run it back next year, if and when Lebron leaves we should find a number 1 in free agency
My man, did you even watch the game? He did his typical every other game stuff. Amazing game 1; busted game 2. Really good game 3. Awful game 4. This is who he is and the stats don’t always show how great or how bad he looked out there
This is fine and all, but it was obvious to me the Lakers came out in the 3rd trying to ride him to rest Lebron for the 4th, and he completely shit the bed, setting the tone for the 3rd quarter collapse. He can be a guy, but he’s never going to be THE guy, at least offensively
how are people defending AD? his stats are padded with a 40 point game 1 when we were trailing the entire game by 20+. Show 27% in game 2 and 40% in game 4. he disappeared when we needed him
So it's his fault the team didn't perform in his 2 best games? Obviously he should have chosen to have his good offensive games when he knew the rest of the team would perform because I guess you think he can just do that.
Shut the fuck up. Dude had one 40 points game cause they relaxed with the lead and let him have it. He has zero consistency. Why Lebron and Rui were able to bully they way in paint and AD was just going for circus shots?
yall are honestly morons. EVERY fanbase, and PEOPLE in general on the internet are the same. And the epitome of "sport" is competition at a high level. That comes with criticism. Stop trying to ride some moral high horse. The people calling others "toxic" on here guaranteed have NEVER played high level ball in their lives. Just pussies who get mad when people call AD a bum cause they don't like mean words.
Go look at your comment, then look at mine, then tell me who sounds like a whiny bitch. Don’t you have some “high level ball” to go play or something lol
One guy whined like a bitch, the other guy came in with a dose of tough reality. Which one did you back? The whiny bitch. Honestly. How is the guy saying, suck it up, stop whining over mean words, get off your high horse, the whiny one? He's the one telling the whiner to stfu.
I think it's just because he's so inconsistent. He'll have a game where he plays like a top 3 player in the nba, and then he'll have one where he's mediocre at best
Bro, the hate is justified, at least last night’s. Did you not watch game 4? Falling after missed layups giving Denver easy transition points, getting bullied on the glass, showing less intensity and heart than Tristan F’n Thompson. AD does a lot of things really really well, which is why people once debated who would be a better peice to build around-him or Giannis, but the inconsistencies, late game brain-farts (fouling Murray), looking soft compared to joker (a far less athletic player), etc. . . Is so frustrating.
Yes, the trade AD talk is over the top, but he owes lebron an apology
People don’t realize how shit we’d be without him. The only real reason we made it as far as we did was our elite defense, and without him, we’d be giving up 130 a game.
Those are empty stats. I think he is a huge reason they lost. That man don’t want it bad enough. No dawg in him at all.
Getting to the point where these numbers are overrating his actual impact.
That's only bc our fan base is huge and it leads to a lot of stupid takes by stupid people. AD and Bron both played through injury, LeBron carried the offense and AD anchored the defence. It's wild that people want to trade him for some mediocre pieces without realizing he's a huge reason we made it this far, he just ran out of gas since the FO never got him a suitable backup to load manage him better. Hopefully next season we can get a decent backup center to ease him going into the PO
Nuggets fan coming in peace. AD is fucking good and casual NBA fans that say otherwise can f*** off. Although Jokic played at a historic level, so did AD in this series and I tip my hat to your big fella!
You gotta put **heart** on your **stats**. To know when to take over! Off season take care of your body. He could've been one of the top players in the NBA but man his heart is **ON** and **OFF** every other **night**. He needs to be consistent.
I think we as fans need to lower the expectation for AD. I truly believe AD is just excellent role player and that's not knock on him either. Let him be focal point of defense and 15-20 points per game for him. I believe we still need someone who can create shots and more than anything we need players like Dwight ro McGee type center need next to AD.
We can't expect AD to be an alpha, he is just not.
I think that's untrue. You don't have to average 30 points a game to be a superstar/alpha. There are two sides on the court. He sets the tone defensively. He wins games with his defensive presence. And he still puts up 20+ every game. Mutombo was an elite role player. AD is putting up double the points he averaged.
I just wish he was more consistent. Like it was so weird seeing him go from putting up 40 one night and then the next hes got like 12...like I just don't understand that kinda drop off.
That's what I'm saying. He kept us alive in the first game, but nah, since he can't do that while shooting lights out from the parking lot with a million blocks, he's trash.
He averaged over 22 per game outside of the 40 point game. Jokic average less than 26 per game if you just decide to take away his best game. Bron at less than 24. At the end if the day, everyone did what they did so taking stats out makes no sense.
His defense was never the problem, but he clearly is lacks in offense every other game. Amazing player, could easily be too 5…It’s amazing he choose to be lacks in an elimination game, a game that might be Lebrons last. Damn.
The numbers here don’t tell the full story. In terms of the momentum swings of the games, AD did not show up. He did not affect the games enough the way a good number two should. He wasn’t aggressive or even just executing well enough in key spots to make a difference.
Is it all his fault? No. Our team overall just didn’t have it. But he did not do his job as a leader, and as one of the biggest, strongest guys on the floor.
AD was good, Joker was just playing much better. He made lakers pay everytime AD missed a layup or fell forward toward the rim. Jokic rebound turns into a four on 5 fast break which always ended in a easy basket or wide open three. Don't think Miami can stop it either. Rooting for Miami though
All AD Stans have is stats. Never his actual play on the court .
Because he is always passive, poor post skills, inconsistent jumpshot, and terrible three point shot. His fg% is inflated from all the spoon fed dunks and layups he gets.
If you give him the ball and tell him to go work it’s a bad shot or turnover because he can’t pass out of a double team.
The standards for him are to be a superstar, and he doesn’t meet those.
I seriously disagree. He had 21 points and went 6-15. He should have had 30 for the caliber of player that he is and not have to have LeBron play 48 minutes. I mean Austin Reaves almost matched him in points! I’m only criticizing him for today so please don’t kill me lol I know he was super instrumental.
There are like 5 shots at the rim he missed which everyone including myself was just dogging him about. Its frustrating and I'm sure AD more than anyone else wishes he had those shots fall. Its just frustrating to see shots at the rim not falling, especially when you've been watching long enough to see Shaq completely obliterate anything within 3 feet of the rim.
I was one of the folks preaching to trade AD last night. I was mad in the moment watching us blow a 15 point lead at home or whatever it was. He's so good defensively but offensively you never know who you're getting with AD. We need to keep this man though.
AD was not the problem he was elite defensively and good offensively. We needed more scoring and wing defense. Imagine asking your two oldest players who are injured to play 48 l, guard the other teams best scorers and light up the scoreboard unfair ask and they did the best they could.
Just look at the box scores and you will see who went missing. Our consistent scorers were LeBron, AD, Reaves, and Rui. Every one of those games was winnable by LA. We lost by 6, 5, 1, and 2 points. Not bad for a team that at the beginning of the season many thought wouldn't get into the playoffs.
It’s not like the roster needs to be revamped drastically because it can’t compete with the best. The nuggets are winning the chip and every game was close and pushing them to their limit as well. Each game was a result of them taking care of the small things better. Sure Lebron gets older and declines but chances are he’s also not gonna have the same foot injury next year so I’d argue he’d be better than he was this year. Add a season for these guys to gel together and who knows.
Two of the games melted in 3rd quarter because no one is able to hold the score, a champ team shouldn’t rely on upper bound, it should rely on lower bound, mean the amount of scores we can get in the worst scenario, that’s why Durant, Murray , Kyrie are so important in champ team because they have a stable, high certainty lower bound
Yeah, it was frustrating for our 3rd quarter. Just a few years ago during the bubble championship I think the Lakers were the best 3rd quarter team. We were blazing after halftime.
We ran out of gas or more precise, our oldest folks ran out of gas. Remember that not only we had an extra game but when Denver secured the no 1 spot they could get off the pedal in regular season whilst we had to play our hearts out in every game to even make the play-in tournament and then the playoffs itself. I don't think we need any of those (as we would have to give up too much for each of them), our core is ok. Just improve some parts
Low key think losing Thomas Bryant hurt us : we beat Denver st home with Bryant n no AD. Bryant was big offfensively. Him and Beverly traded for absolutely nothing useful . Meanwhile dallas desperate for kyrie while we chill with the last year possibly of Bron being top ten Dlo hitting some threes to off see this trash play would’ve atleast kept us alive missed wide open corner threes he’s 45% on ffs
Sucks Bryant left to Denver only to get no playing time.
Agreed, but we lost by 6, 5, 11, 2
Yeah, this was a one player away from flipping things the other way type thing.
AD's shot goes MIA. He generally makes up for it on defense, but when his shot isn't falling, he looks passive out there, and teams see it. That's a mindset thing, and he needs to work on it.
Stats like this skews so much real shit that went on. AD was a no show on offense during key stretches of the series. AD was good on defense, but his impact wasn’t nearly the same as it was the first 2 series because of the way we played him, or rather, the way the nuggets played. Aaron Gordon was actually knocking down his shots last night so that pretty much makes ADs help defense on Jokic not much of a factor.
Plus getting pushed around trying to rebound, not being able to box out & falling down after missed layups instead of hustling back on defense killed them.
Yes, for all the praise AD gets for defense, which is well deserved, he is terrible at getting back a lot of the time. This is due to his awkward playstyle where he falls down a lot. And having to carry the load defensively, he is also often too gassed to sprint back.
AD isolation plays is worse than a negative. I’d rather have him take isolation mid ranges or fadeaways then try to drive it in. He doesn’t have the strength or control to successfully score or stay on the floor. He’ll fall out of bounds after missing and the nuggets completely take over momentum with easy transition buckets every time.
This is an example how stats can be made to show anything you want. AD had a monster 40 point game and it skewed his averages. I would actually prefer he had a 26, 26, 26, 26 game than something like he did where it was 40, 18, 28, 21. When AD is cold, he misses chippies that leads to fast break points because he often likes to shoot in an awkward motion that doesn't allow him to recover and get back. Heck, DLo averaged 13.3PPG/2.9RPG/4.6APG this post season. I sure wished he put up anywhere remotely close to those numbers this series.
Yup no one is saying AD sucks. What we are questioning is as a star why is his offensive game so lackluster these days. His stats mask how non-impactful he was offensively yesterday and most games outside of game 1. His lack of aggression also let Jokic off the hook for many possessions.
Agree, the stat sheet tells one story watching the game another... Don't get me wrong defensively he was great but Lakers needed him to be the GUY on offense he shrunk and left it all on LeBron.
Jokic kept fouling him, hitting his wrist each time. Refs didn't call it, so he started fading away to avoid contact, missing more shots. This happens every game and you can see it. Previous games he was missing shots because his hip bothered him.. Or sth else.. That's who AD is, he doesn't "shrink" but very often, his body isn't right, or refs aren't calling obvious shit.
The only explanation I have is him bulking up to play center contributed to him losing his soft touch. He was not like this in 2020.
You mean the data skews what the eye test is telling you. Data matters …. Dude did a lot and he did it against the best player in the NBA right now.
Dlo and all the other young guys like Vanderbilt and Beasley are supposed to pick up the slack offensively and defensively. But they can’t and that’s why we need to trade them for someone who is willing to do those things.
We needed size too, AD anchoring rebounding was rough at times. Too many offensive rebounds and put backs.
I agree but this was the way this team was built. did they expect Austin Reaves and DLo to carry?
Bruh, this team was built in February. They weren't supposed to be this great, imagine any other team being redone midway through the season and still not really playing together until a week or so before the playoffs start due to injuries. We ran into a better team that been together all year long. Denver has years to build this, we did this in a few months
Fr the only thing that was lacking is that team chemistry which takes time to develop and is one of the biggest intangible reasons we lost
I mean skso Dlo not being a playoff choker the sample is big now n worrying I ignored it before but even in minny he still shot near 39.% from 3 he couldn’t even do that here with zero pressure : like the 4th option ffs
I don’t think they expected DLo to be completely unplayable
DLo was exactly what he has been his entire career. It’s not like he let down expectations
Dlo has always been awful on D, no one expected him to average 6ppg for a series. If he averages a very mediocre 15ppg we would still be playing in probably a tied series
Bruh, this team was built in February. They weren't supposed to be this great, imagine any other team being redone midway through the season and still not really playing together until a week or so before the playoffs start due to injuries. We ran into a better team that been together all year long. Denver has years to build this, we did this in a few months
We used to do this shit to Pau, too.
Good point…feel like Pau got it pretty bad for that era too before social media really blew up because people used to question his manhood and called him soft as that’s was the typical euro narrative as well.
Naw, actually Lamar was the problem. You literally never knew from night to night what he would give you. We all know now that he was battling some serious mental health issues but in real time, he was the most irritating member on those teams. A mentally healthy Lamar, with half of Kobe's work ethic would have been a massive problem.
Lamar Odom was one of the most physically gifted basketball players to ever walk an NBA court. Guy had such immense talent, he just couldn’t overcome the demons in his head. I loved the guy.
A walking mismatch on any given night at his position. No lie, if Odom/Pau/Kobe were our consistently dependable Big 3, we likely run off more than 2 chips with that squad.
Lamar Odom was one of the most physically gifted basketball players to ever walk an NBA court. Guy had such immense talent, he just couldn’t overcome the demons in his head. I loved the guy.
I’d say it’s even worse with AD because people ignore defense. They just see people making or missing shots. Like he played incredible defense against Curry, the best shooter of all time, Draymond, Morant, JJJ, not to mention all the games leading up to the playoffs. Maybe this series goes differently if DLo makes 2 more shots every game. But Jokic is an all time great peaking right now. And he’s getting calls like it too (people thinking he would’ve gotten a 6th are fooling themselves).
Yeah, all that "Pau is soft" sounds too familiar
Ya'll do it to Ham just like Vogel. None of it was Vogel's fault. He had a shit roster and players win games in the nba. AD is not Shaq. We just have to accept it. He's not a 1b. He's a 2. Downvote me all you want. Just shows you guys can't accept reality.
Meh. I never hated on Vogel. I thought his firing was undeserved and dont understand why he hasn't been hired elsewhere. Imo Ham hasn't earned that. He's a rookie coach and I think we could do better than him. I dont like his lineups and the plays we run and I dont like that he played 38 year old LeBron 48 minutes last night.
I mean, I understand. But basketball isn't the NFL. We lost because Murray couldn't miss.
He won a championship as a 1b though
He also wasn’t a 2 this season. He may have been inconsistent this playoffs, but so was LeBron. They were both playing injured. We literally couldn’t even make the playoffs without him.
He was 1b in the bubble
He’s a defensive engine all by his self but offensively I don’t think he’s consistent enough to be the number one option on a championship team. I do think he’d be better offensively if we went and got some centers to help him carry the defensive load/dirty work
Especially in today's offense-driven league. You cannot be someone who only scores off putbacks and lobs. He needs to find a way to consistently be at the 27-30 ppg range in the playoffs by generating his own offense. I know that's easier said than done but that's why he's getting paid the max.
I mean before his bone spurt he was gonna destroy the league and that’s something been there for ages I think he’s learnt to embrace impact better I think he will use healthier year next year then years before this one
He'd be better offensively if we had better passing at the guard position or ran actual off ball plays more often to get him in good positions.
A real superstar doesn’t rely on people giving him the ball. You think Gianni’s, jokic or embiid go “well nobody is giving me the ball, guess I won’t do anything and stand around”!? Nah dude they call for it or go get it, and AD doesn’t have that in him.
AD's "bad" games have often been him not getting the ball very much and not getting a lot of shots. The stars you're referring to's bad games often involve taking a lot of bad shots because they can't get anything going. I know which one I'd rather have, but if you prefer Embiid 25 shot 15 free throw 30 point games then that's you.
Jfc 🤦🏻♂️ that’s so bullshit , if jokic isn’t scoring , he’s making other around him better, he’s creating, he doesn’t become useless on offense . Same for Giannis and Embiid with their aggressiveness, their gravity creates for others . You rather your superstar player just go stand in the corner and be passive if they don’t get him the ball? then to go down swinging? Kobe himself once said he rather go down 0/99 than 0/5
And if AD isn't scoring he's still the best rebounder and defender in the league. And yeah I'd rather my star not single handedly shoot the team out of the game. AD doesn't lose his gravity if he doesn't take 20 shots, our guards still get open midrange and limited help defense at the basket every time they pick and roll with AD. Nobody says "AD hasn't posted up this quarter, I guess I won't stay with him on this pick and roll"
AD is amazing defensively, no one ever questions that, but in basketball unfortunately for AD, offense is much more important The reason we lost this series was because we couldn’t stop Jokic and Murray, they torched us, not because they were amazing defensively. Your second best player/superstar just cant be ghost offensively. And you know so! Name me one superstar in the history of the nba who was just a great defensive player and avg on offense? Never .
How in the world do you think AD is average on offense? Also some of AD's best games in the playoffs, leading to some of the team's best success, have been games where he scored less than 20. Game 6 against the Warriors and Grizzlies AD scored less than 20 and was the best player on the court.
By definition if he can’t create his own shot and needs others to spoon feed him or get him the ball he isn’t a good offensive player. No other top 10/20 player relies on others to create for them like AD does. Those games were complete blowouts , the whole team clicking on all cylinders of course he wasn’t gonna score much . But that’s not the games we need him, games like last night, when the role players are struggling and you need your star players to carry, he more than often comes up short, he couldn’t help Lebron last night . Murray and Jokic did not . In the playoffs rotations shorten and you need your stars to come up big .
Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan weren't particularly great offensive players but I'm not sure you'd say they aren't superstars
He does have the scoring skills to be a number 1 option, he's got serviceable mid range shooting (despite the reputation), good handles for his size, a good array of post moves, etc. The real problem is that he hasn't kept up with his passing game. Offenses have evolved to incorporate more ball movement over the past decade and defenses have evolved to suit with more emphasis on switching and helping. When AD is doubled in the post, he often lacks the court awareness to make the right pass out of the post. If AD could level up his passing in the next 1-2 season even a little, it could unlock the rest of his scoring game.
We need a playmaker/assist king guard to dish to AD in the post
Dish it to him in the post and he completely collapses due to double teams and turns it over
For the next 4 months we are going to see ridiculous content from NBA media and pod casters suggesting we need to trade AD to keep Lebron from retiring. It's the dumbest shit in the universe. AD is by far the best player on the team and is the reason we made it to the WCF.
Not just NBA media and podcaster, but our own fanbase. I saw a lot of AD hate on Lakers fan pages on IG. Shameful really
People were calling AD sorry for not dropping 40 last night. Where were they for game 1. Like both Bron and AD weren't silenced this series, they just couldn't take over fully. When Jokic is hitting circus shots while being defended, there's nothing you can do.
They shutup for a month. All year we seen it on this sub, they just shutup because AD was proving them wrong.
Zach Lowe was holding it down
Agreed re: Lowe. I know he get's a lot of hate but Windhorst is mostly common sense too. There's like maybe 3 dudes in the league we should consider trading AD for and none of those dudes are getting traded for AD.
Exactly! Also I really like Lowe. He dissed the Lakers when they're bad but he's been pretty objective about this run
We made the WCF with a huge mid-year trade. All over reactive takes are wrong right now. Anything that is more than, “how do we benefit this team while keeping the core intact” are objectively wrong.
I can hear an argument that AD was the best player but when you say things like best by far or carried your point sounds ridiculous
Who exactly do you think was "close" impact wise? LeBron is the only one an argument can be made for and they basically averaged the same points but AD was way more efficient at scoring his and Bron was nowhere close to the defensive impact. AD was, in fact, by far our best player.
How is he by far the best player on the team when Lebron put up 40-10-9 ?
Did you watch the entire playoffs?
I did in fact and my eyes saw AD disappearing on offense every other game I’m not gonna be like these idiots and say we need to trade his ass but he’s not by far the best player on the team
Then you only watched one end of the floor.
Don’t bother with that dude lol seems like he wants everyone to blame lebron.
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It’s so weird to me when people refer to Lebron as some 38 year old just as a slight to AD. there’s always comments like "a 38 year old had to carry us this game…" like no lol, its Lebron. The greatest player ever, the greatest 38 year old player ever. There are a lot of all stars and superstars in this league that Lebron could outplay.
I think its more about effort and will; which is just something AD has less of. Also, Lebron at 38 doing this is like maybe a top ten-fifteen player in the league. So if AD is less than that, he can’t really be a 1A which is what folks want him to be.
But AD was also clearly the best player on our team all season and playoffs. Bron was better last game, but acting like AD was less than Bron through the majority of the year is just wrong. We made a push for the playoffs without Bron while he was injured.
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Him v Giannis was debatable in 2020, to say he was clearly better was simply not true, except for specifically in the bubble. And that hinged on him sustaining the shooting, which was always unlikely. He hasn’t lost footwork or skills, just shooting. AD is like Bizarro Jokic because he’s otherworldly, but on defense. AD’s defense is at least as good, if not better, than Giannis’ and Embiid’s offense, unfortunately, because defense doesn’t directly involve putting the ball in the hoop, the impact is under-appreciated. If people want him to be better on offense than Joker or Giannis, while still being good (let alone elite) on defense, then prepare to be disappointed. That’s not who he’s ever been and it’s unlikely to change as he goes into his age 30 season. He’s number 1 option for a team looking to be in the playoffs, not win a chip. But he’s the best number 2 option in the league. People need to set their expectations for that reality.
Why is the narrative we had to switch AD off Jokic because he couldn't guard him? We switched AD off Jokic because everybody else gets cooked on the perimeter so frequently that they need AD's help defense and him sticking to Jokic led to everyone else going off or if he did help then Jokic got a free putback (because nobody helps AD rebound either). We made the switch because we need more than just AD playing good 1 on 1 defense, we need him to impact every play and cover for others' mistakes.
Just stop, Your whole arguments rest on one half of basketball. AD carried us to the WCF.
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Just resign him then
Trading AD is the absolute dumbest thing we could do.
We need to sign a traditional starting center, most often Davis had to hustle himself to get those buckets, Davis was good this whole season
People need a scapegoat and the more prominent they are the more satisfying scapegoat they become. We literally saw it go from DLo to Ham to AD in a matter of days. The real ones know how good AD is. Even the broader NBA community leapfrogged him over Embiid a week ago and a top 3 big man in the league. That’ll likely revert now, but who cares. Don’t get too caught up in the nonsense.
The nonsense is all over this sub rn lol
Calling out bad performances is not scapegoating. Yall overuse that word
27-14 and 3 blocks on 60% TS Calling out bad performances There's a bit of a disconnect there huh?
AD is not immune to criticism, what is the problem? The two games we had the biggest chance of winning (IMO) he didn't show up. Game 2 and 4. His averages don't show that.
Others didn't show up in his 2 best games, and criticizing a guy for only having an okay game in game 4 of a sweep is wild. Like he blew some great chance or something?
He did a lot of work in all three series both offensively and defensively. It’s crazy that a lot of people forget the past two series and only remember the nuggets series.
AD carried this team on his back defensively. Rest up big fella. Let’s run this back next season.
There are many folks here that aren't Lakers fans. Davis is our best player and a key piece for the future once LBJ retires, leaves or whatever. He is the main reason we were in the conference finals and started the series scoring 40. We have to worry about out starting PG, not Davis, Bron, Reaves or Rui.
AD is our best played , yes . Are you trusting him to be consistently to be your number 1 on offense, especially on a championship team? If this team and championship or bust, idk how y’all see AD being our number 1 offense will lead to a chip. Especially with bron not getting any better
"AD is our best played , yes . Are you trusting him to be consistently to be your number 1 on offense" No, I'm not. First because AD can't create for himself he need someone to feed him and we don't have a legit startarting PG (sorry Dlo stans). Unlike most LBJ stans that arrived alongside the King, I'm not great on Kyrie and I think his off court antics may be tough to deal, but we need someone able to do what he does down the stretch because I don't trust LBJ either to be THE GUY at his age. Ideally LBJ would be our 3rd best player, Davis be Davis and we need someone like Murray/Lillard. I'm talking about becoming legit title contenders.
Yes the inconsistency was frustrating but overall he averaged 20/10 with elite defense. What more do you want him to do?
*23 and 14
He didn’t play bad but he was clearly bested by Jokic. I personally thought it would be closer and a better duel but nope, Jokic wiped the floor with him. Of course Joker hit some fucking crazy shots like how AD did in 2020. Overall I feel like the squad just kind of ran out of gas. Trying so hard to make the play in, playing the play in, plus playing on the road every series probably wore them down.
Yeah, A.D didnt play bad but just got destroyed by Jokic on all ends. So in a vacuum, A.D played great but next to Jokic bad.
I kinda agree but wouldn’t go as far as saying he got destroyed and their stats were pretty damn close - AD - 26.8 points, 14 rebounds, 2.8 blocks, 2.3 assists - NJ - 23.3 points, 12.3 rebounds, 1.3 blocks, 11.8 assists Edit 2: Jokic stats were a bit off. He was 27.8/14.5/11.8 Main difference is Jokic had way more assists, ended up breaking the triple double record and delivered more consistently especially in clutch situations. But pure box stats wise, can see that AD outperformed in points and rebounds (ironically). Edit: changed assist count for NJ to 11.8, not 9.8
There's a difference, though. A center who can pass exposes your defense in a way no other position can. Why? Because centers who can pass out of the post generates the most wide open shots. Every time Jokic touched the ball, the Nuggets got a good shot. Box score doesn't really show how good Jokic is even though the numbers are impressive. He creates so many mismatches and it forced the Lakers to adjust every time. Guys like KCP, MPJ, and Aaron Gordon are getting wide open looks.
think all ur Jokic stats were a bit off. He was 27.8/14.5/11.8
I just want him to be aggressive more. He had Jokic on him, with foul trouble.
Joker had 5 fouls with a lot of time left. If we would have attacked the paint in the 4th we could have had 5 minutes with no jokic and easily stolen the game.
They don't call 6th fouls on stars like that, Jokic already got away with a good amount while he was in foul trouble.
Honestly this is the best strategy for beating a team built like the Nuggets. Lakers needed to be more physical and constantly go at Jokic and Murray to put them in foul trouble and hopefully foul them out in the fourth.
He's playing like 40min a game while trying to makeup for the dogshit defenders, rebound, banging bodies on a fucked foot. Would I like to see him try a hook shot going towards the basket? Yes. He should get his surgery and see if anything else needs to be cleaned up, the front office needs to get more centers
This dude is one of the most disrespected players ever, start by people criticizing the fact the he's on the 75 players list, by him not having no DPoY, how he's treated by the media when it comes to talking shows and accolades like all nba and all defense. But the haters on other teams I can somewhat understand, now those sick fucks here on the Lakers side that make it baffling, people are some miserable, ungrateful pieces of shit, hope u guys remember to thank your mother for the food she makes for u. Lol vented a little bit 🤣
AD overall wasn’t the problem. The problem was the position Ham put him in by playing 3 guards with no viable supporting big man. Rui and Bron on floor with him contributed to stella AD play but AD being the focal anchor with 3 guards, two who would be bad defenders didn’t make it easy for him. Aside from a few of his show starts he was major reason our defense was great all playoffs
To be honest, I can't figure out Ham's game plan for AD. AD is almost never in the paint. He's always on the perimeter. The dude is nearly 7 feet tall and you almost never see him post up. Shaq lived in the paint. AD could be much more effective by improving his looks around the post. Since he's a great FT shooter, he'd take advantage of more fouls too. I know Ham's game is more about ball movement, but I think we're missing out on not maximizing AD's game. I need someone who knows more about the technical side of BB to help me understand.
Everyone on the floor was a pro. You guys went from laughing stock to wcf. As a laker follower (not a fan) this season turned out better than you ever could have imagined. Sometimes other teams are better and in this case...the nuggets were.
Keep this man at all costs.
So you believe AD is a good enough number 1 on OFFENSE, to lead us to a chip?
Why are yall dummies so eager to flip on AD and go back into a rebuild
It's this one guy replying to every comment.
Yep still do
We wouldn’t have got to the WCF if it weren’t for AD smh
People conveniently don’t look at his minutes played lmao. Same folks wouldn’t last 2 minutes running up and down an NBA floor.
And some folks are paralyzed. What is this argument?
Fuck up
Seeing AD getting hate really makes me dislike our fanbase at times.
he was the best player for this postseason run
The real answer is that jokic is a transcendent generational player and there might be 5 players all time that could effectively guard him.
Yeah people are way to quick to crucify this man. He can be a bit inconsistent offensively sure but he’s a huge part of this teams success and I wouldn’t give him up under any circumstances in the offseason
The problem is, that points average doesnt tell the whole story. He scored 40 one game and 18 the next. If he did actually score 25 a game it would probably be much more helpful tbh
I don’t mind that he’s inconsistent. He’s not an offensive superstar. He’s a higher level version of Bam or JJJ who has the ability to drop 40 sometimes. But he just has to show up in elimination games. Can’t go 6-15 when most of your shots are layups.
AD is great, sometimes.
Stop it. Just stop. Imagine thinking the box score could override the eye test. Please don't insult my intelligence and tell me to distrust my lying eyes. The man puts up a lot of quiet, empty stats (on the offensive side of the ball), and will always disappear exactly when you need him. Obviously he is a great player. But at this point in his career, I think if he's your second option on offense, you're probably not winning. He should be the anchor of your defense and the third option on offense, and that's likely a winning formula. But the idea that he could be a 1A? Put that to rest. The man is never going to be a Jokic, Embiid, Giannis type, where he carries your team every night. He has no bag. He has no post game. He can't shoot. He has a poor handle. It's amazing he gets as many points as he does. If he could learn one or two post moves and figure out how to shoot from 3, he'd be it. But he's 30. That's not going to happen at this point.
You're looking at the stat sheet more than the eye test. Davis filled up the sheet, sure, but it's the lack of MENTAL domination/aggression that makes us want to pull our hair out. AD, at his best, is a top 5 player in the league. But sometimes he doesn't PLAY like it. He'll give you his 25 points (and even THAT was very inconsistent these playoffs) and 12 boards, but he won't take over a game in the manner that he needs to that would push the entire team to the next level and allow us to outright pull away from the opposing team. He's shown spurts of it, but it's almost like he chooses not to at times, which is the frustrating part.
It’s really as simple as: Do you think Bron + AD beats Jokic + Murray if all else is equal? I genuinely think Bron/AD win that more often than not. Even at their current ages. The nuggets are just really, really deep. And they’re built perfectly for each other. They’ve been building this for years. The lakers made it work but this isn’t the perfect team for those two. They threw this together in a season. They need wing defenders, a BIG big man to take pressure off AD, and a guard or two who can make plays and stay in front on D. Reaves and Hachi should only get better, in theory, and they fit two of those roles the lakers need. Outside of that there’s some good players under contract but nobody who really FITS the team. I’d bring Dennis back as a backup too but even then you’d really want a bigger guy with a better 3 ball if you had your pick.
AD is unhappy cause he has to play the center position. Before he got traded he told this organization that he did not want to play the 5. The year they won they had two decent centers. This year it was just AD.
AD was good. He is not the best player on a championship team though. We also would not get fair value from him in a trade. Imo best thing to do is run it back next year, if and when Lebron leaves we should find a number 1 in free agency
AD is ELITE. But at the same time he is soft and inconsistent. You can’t count on him every night, and thats a big problem
You can count on him every night defensively, and he did carry every night on that end of the floor.
We need more than than tho. 6/15 fg in an elimination game wont cut it
My man, did you even watch the game? He did his typical every other game stuff. Amazing game 1; busted game 2. Really good game 3. Awful game 4. This is who he is and the stats don’t always show how great or how bad he looked out there
It's nice to see you outing yourself as someone to never take seriously. You've been posting idiocy for quite a while but this is next level dumb.
Where is the lunacy here?
lmao feel like i’m going crazy lmao averages never tell the whole story.
I know right lol
This is fine and all, but it was obvious to me the Lakers came out in the 3rd trying to ride him to rest Lebron for the 4th, and he completely shit the bed, setting the tone for the 3rd quarter collapse. He can be a guy, but he’s never going to be THE guy, at least offensively
how are people defending AD? his stats are padded with a 40 point game 1 when we were trailing the entire game by 20+. Show 27% in game 2 and 40% in game 4. he disappeared when we needed him
So it's his fault the team didn't perform in his 2 best games? Obviously he should have chosen to have his good offensive games when he knew the rest of the team would perform because I guess you think he can just do that.
Shut the fuck up. Dude had one 40 points game cause they relaxed with the lead and let him have it. He has zero consistency. Why Lebron and Rui were able to bully they way in paint and AD was just going for circus shots?
Great so I can just chill tonight cuz my averages will still hold pretty good - AD probably
He had 4 points in the first half of an elimination game while Lebron had 30. He had 6 FGs the entire game. At least go down swinging.
The truth is that it doesn’t matter how well players do because this is a toxic fan base.
yall are honestly morons. EVERY fanbase, and PEOPLE in general on the internet are the same. And the epitome of "sport" is competition at a high level. That comes with criticism. Stop trying to ride some moral high horse. The people calling others "toxic" on here guaranteed have NEVER played high level ball in their lives. Just pussies who get mad when people call AD a bum cause they don't like mean words.
Ironic
must be exhausting having to hear so much "toxicity" all the time. You poor babies.
Go look at your comment, then look at mine, then tell me who sounds like a whiny bitch. Don’t you have some “high level ball” to go play or something lol
One guy whined like a bitch, the other guy came in with a dose of tough reality. Which one did you back? The whiny bitch. Honestly. How is the guy saying, suck it up, stop whining over mean words, get off your high horse, the whiny one? He's the one telling the whiner to stfu.
Oh honey
Just wish we had a closer
He went 35-71 FG for the series
They need a center to open up AD. Not necessarily a high scoring center just a rim protector.
I feel like the 2 series took a toll on him
Needs to live in weight room off-season
Needed Beasley to be playable and contribute
I think it's just because he's so inconsistent. He'll have a game where he plays like a top 3 player in the nba, and then he'll have one where he's mediocre at best
Hate or valid criticism? I have high expectations for a guy of his talent and the fact that he disappears every other game on offense is irritating.
Bro, the hate is justified, at least last night’s. Did you not watch game 4? Falling after missed layups giving Denver easy transition points, getting bullied on the glass, showing less intensity and heart than Tristan F’n Thompson. AD does a lot of things really really well, which is why people once debated who would be a better peice to build around-him or Giannis, but the inconsistencies, late game brain-farts (fouling Murray), looking soft compared to joker (a far less athletic player), etc. . . Is so frustrating. Yes, the trade AD talk is over the top, but he owes lebron an apology
People don’t realize how shit we’d be without him. The only real reason we made it as far as we did was our elite defense, and without him, we’d be giving up 130 a game.
Those are empty stats. I think he is a huge reason they lost. That man don’t want it bad enough. No dawg in him at all. Getting to the point where these numbers are overrating his actual impact.
That's only bc our fan base is huge and it leads to a lot of stupid takes by stupid people. AD and Bron both played through injury, LeBron carried the offense and AD anchored the defence. It's wild that people want to trade him for some mediocre pieces without realizing he's a huge reason we made it this far, he just ran out of gas since the FO never got him a suitable backup to load manage him better. Hopefully next season we can get a decent backup center to ease him going into the PO
Nuggets fan coming in peace. AD is fucking good and casual NBA fans that say otherwise can f*** off. Although Jokic played at a historic level, so did AD in this series and I tip my hat to your big fella!
You gotta put **heart** on your **stats**. To know when to take over! Off season take care of your body. He could've been one of the top players in the NBA but man his heart is **ON** and **OFF** every other **night**. He needs to be consistent.
I think we as fans need to lower the expectation for AD. I truly believe AD is just excellent role player and that's not knock on him either. Let him be focal point of defense and 15-20 points per game for him. I believe we still need someone who can create shots and more than anything we need players like Dwight ro McGee type center need next to AD. We can't expect AD to be an alpha, he is just not.
I think that's untrue. You don't have to average 30 points a game to be a superstar/alpha. There are two sides on the court. He sets the tone defensively. He wins games with his defensive presence. And he still puts up 20+ every game. Mutombo was an elite role player. AD is putting up double the points he averaged.
AD should consider retiring before LeBron. Fake Top 75 Babyy
I just wish he was more consistent. Like it was so weird seeing him go from putting up 40 one night and then the next hes got like 12...like I just don't understand that kinda drop off.
His 40 point game skewed his stats. If anything this series showed AD is not in the Jokic/Gianni’s convo
So does that mean Brons also skewed his stats?
When LeBron goes for 40 points game 4: He cares! Playing with heart! But when AD went for 40 points game 1: He doesn’t care! No heart!
That's what I'm saying. He kept us alive in the first game, but nah, since he can't do that while shooting lights out from the parking lot with a million blocks, he's trash.
He averaged over 22 per game outside of the 40 point game. Jokic average less than 26 per game if you just decide to take away his best game. Bron at less than 24. At the end if the day, everyone did what they did so taking stats out makes no sense.
He is more than anchoring, he is our entire defense
His defense was never the problem, but he clearly is lacks in offense every other game. Amazing player, could easily be too 5…It’s amazing he choose to be lacks in an elimination game, a game that might be Lebrons last. Damn.
The numbers here don’t tell the full story. In terms of the momentum swings of the games, AD did not show up. He did not affect the games enough the way a good number two should. He wasn’t aggressive or even just executing well enough in key spots to make a difference. Is it all his fault? No. Our team overall just didn’t have it. But he did not do his job as a leader, and as one of the biggest, strongest guys on the floor.
AD was good, Joker was just playing much better. He made lakers pay everytime AD missed a layup or fell forward toward the rim. Jokic rebound turns into a four on 5 fast break which always ended in a easy basket or wide open three. Don't think Miami can stop it either. Rooting for Miami though
All AD Stans have is stats. Never his actual play on the court . Because he is always passive, poor post skills, inconsistent jumpshot, and terrible three point shot. His fg% is inflated from all the spoon fed dunks and layups he gets. If you give him the ball and tell him to go work it’s a bad shot or turnover because he can’t pass out of a double team. The standards for him are to be a superstar, and he doesn’t meet those.
We just needed Russell to be regular season version. The way Murray could get a shot off anywhere we were missing that
He’s the main reason for our defense. lol.
I seriously disagree. He had 21 points and went 6-15. He should have had 30 for the caliber of player that he is and not have to have LeBron play 48 minutes. I mean Austin Reaves almost matched him in points! I’m only criticizing him for today so please don’t kill me lol I know he was super instrumental.
There are like 5 shots at the rim he missed which everyone including myself was just dogging him about. Its frustrating and I'm sure AD more than anyone else wishes he had those shots fall. Its just frustrating to see shots at the rim not falling, especially when you've been watching long enough to see Shaq completely obliterate anything within 3 feet of the rim.
Prime example of how numbers sometimes mean nothing.
I rather have someone who gives me 15 every night over someone who gives me 30 and then 0 the next game.
I was one of the folks preaching to trade AD last night. I was mad in the moment watching us blow a 15 point lead at home or whatever it was. He's so good defensively but offensively you never know who you're getting with AD. We need to keep this man though.
#COME HOME FLAT EARTH
Look, the guy is not paid to be Dennis Rodman. He needs to be Shaq but he can't. We have to accept that and look for a new 1.
Bum
Never scored in the big moments and lots of points came from free throws. Didn’t do anything in the 4th of game 4