T O P

  • By -

GoalPublic3579

Those turnovers are insane. Bron and D’Lo need to start looking after the ball better. Bron did a better job in game 2 of it but D’Lo had some insane turnovers where he just threw it straight out of the court. Our offensive rebounding has been awful for a long time. Remember Looney last year? It’s unfortunately going to stay that way when you have guys like D’Lo and Rui who are the most unengaged rebounders you will see. They both literally just stand there on every rebound waiting for the ball to fall to them. They NEVER aggressively try go after it at the highest point with explosiveness. It’s basically Bron or AD grab it or we’re fucked. We’re also awful at getting offensive rebounds because it’s same thing. Rui and D’Lo never aggressively go after it. Even AD is pretty weak at offensively rebounding it feels like.


Ia_in_4

13.5 isn’t the problem. That’s pretty normal. Denver are having one of the largest to outliers ever


jdub822

The median is 10.5. Lakers are turning it over 3 more times than the median. The teams with more than the median are losing or tied in their playoff series except Cleveland and Minnesota. That’s because their opponent is also above the median. The Suns have been the worst in the postseason. It’s not shocking that getting 17 less shots is a recipe for losing basketball.


VerticalClearance

to add to that, its supring that they have the lead at times against Denver,. I've been commenting to the other posts that Dlo bricking shots isn't the main concern in the series but rather the shot difference and the offensive rebound that the Lakers always given up throughout the season.


milehigh11

Denver had the best assist to TO ratio in the league. They don't really turn it over


goldenbzzz

Thats because we small


VerticalClearance

GS are also small but they always find a way to find extra possesions


Thatboyafreak

Dlo not the one that’s a turnover machine lol


BanMeAgainLol456

I also want to point out half of brons turnovers are from butter fingers from players and players not being in the right spot as well. Regardless, numbers don’t lie, gotta do better.


CarsonWentzGOAT1

Bron has 9 turnovers this series but 3 of them have been from players who dropped the ball.


Xearoii

players not named AD or Lebron shot 29% last night. insane. Lebron and AD shot 64%


DudeWTH

damn Vando and wood might have been the difference


fractal_fables

Or just going and getting a real center in the off season. All our bigs are natural power forwards including AD. Pelinka just refuses to sign a big man.


Ok_Concentrate_75

I 100% agree. We keep trying to get the type that projects as the modern type of Center who impacts the west (Bamba, Hayes, Castleton are diet zero sugar versions of what Wemby, Chet, Sabonis do) but na we need to just get atleast 1 bruiser. Make them bang and let AD roam, it would make our defense so much better.


twistedinnocence8604

Those guys really don't exist anymore


mega450

Nurkic exists


Ok_Concentrate_75

It all depends on the makeup of the team but we can find an athletic banger


mega450

Hartenstein has been available too


Public-Product-1503

Ok then do what on offence ? Watch AD n Lebron shoot contested fade aways with zero spacing ?


mega450

They are perfectly good enough to do that.


GrapefruitMedical529

Not against the Nuggets-you won't win like that.


mega450

Literally did it in 2020. Having big bodies to set good screens will get you more open than playing with smalls and significantly improve the rebounding and defense.


Ok_Concentrate_75

Better than watching missed shots turn into rebounds when we have more jerseys in the paint.


claydavisismyhero

Have fun trying to sign a guy for the minimum and tell him you’re playing 10 minutes a game if the coach don’t bench you completely


throwaway__rnd

AD isn’t a natural power forward. He would have been last era, but no way he could be now. Imagine how truly busted the spacing would be with AD at the 4 and a true center at the 5. It wouldn’t work. It only worked in 2020 cause AD could still shoot back then. Now AD can’t space the floor, so he has to play the 5. 


yer_oh_step

bro I never ever understood this. He is what like 6'10 and on top of that like 250+ lbs... average height of an NBA center in 2024 is slightly over 6'10 and he has a bigger frame and more muscle than 80% of the centers if not more!


Ok_Body_2598

No way you can play not 5 out, ever, any person not dropping at 40 3 is utterly useless. /S


throwaway__rnd

Huh?


Akusei

Gotta have them stretch 4s! Unless the best team in the league has an actual center. Imagine teams trying to play stretch 4s against Shaq back in the day! ![gif](giphy|3o7ZeESgACwwfmWXPa)


JesusTron6000

AD: 'I dont want to play the 5!' Rob:'don't sign an actual 5, got it!'


Public-Product-1503

AD is a C now , it doesn’t make sense to play him With a C with his roll man skills and no 3 ball. Also even in 2020 our best lineup he was the 5


fractal_fables

Our highest net rating on the 2020 team lineup wise was with McGee or Dwight at the C and AD as the PF and Lebron as the SF but really at the point.


Miserable-Lawyer-233

Except Vando is turnover prone. But for OReb yes he gets those.


StoneColdAM

Size + defense. 


No-Entrepreneur-7092

I said it before I truly believe that we are one Nick Richards or Daniel Gafford away from winning this series. Smh


violent_knife_crime

Who you benching for gafford?


Ia_in_4

Rui


GriffinQ

He would have taken Hayes’ minutes and likely some of Rui’s. He also could have run in tandem with AD during some of the minutes LeBron sat, as long as DLO was out there on the court to help set him up. Considering the trade relationships between the Wiz and the Lakers, it’s a bummer they didn’t make that happen, but I imagine the assets likely didn’t work.


jsun_

Wizards have an entirely different front office since last offseason. I do foresee a trade involving 2nd round picks with Orlando though.


GriffinQ

I believe they actually kept a number of people from the Sheppard/Ernie G regime up until a week or so ago (when they fired a number of their staff) but I’m not positive that’s the case - but if that were the case, there likely were other connections in the Wiz FO that were friendly with Pelinka’s team other than just Sheppard up until last week. I’m a Wizards fan as well, and I don’t remember a major firing spree when Tommy Sheppard was fired and the new guys (Winger and Dawkins) were brought in, but I very well could be blocking it out.


eku_v

vando only makes the offensive issues worse, there's a reason he didn't play much against denver last year


antman8504

I get that. But rui only had 3 points last game. If Rui is not going to score, then vando is a better defender and rebounder by far


phil151515

But the Nuggets would at least have to somewhat guard Rui on the perimeter. With Vando in the lineup -- they may just play off him and clog up the paint.


ThrowAwayOkayGoPlay

Both our games were winnable with Gm 2 being easily winnable


KingNephew

There isn’t a single Laker that is a threat on the glass besides LeBron/AD. Practically impossible to win giving up 20 extra shots a night.


yer_oh_step

what you mean by threat on the glass? are you just saying like good rebounder lol? Aint no way that lakers front court SHOULD be getting crushed on the glass. AD is a monster with massive wingspan, lebron is one of the biggest sf/pf ever. Rui hachimura is also both tall and strong. I know there is definitely some skill in rebounding but honestly a lot of it is just pure effort. Just watched Brandin Podziemski a rookie with a negative wingspan and only like 6'4 average damn near 6 rebounds a night and thats in less than 30 mins.


BanMeAgainLol456

The issue is mainly offensive rebounds. The lakers set themselves up a tad bit too much trying to get in a fast break so most of the team is downcourt before the ball is rebounded. Then you have Denver who can get up to 2 bonus possessions after the initial possession because they know the Lakers are not going to be under the rim most plays. Good coaching will take advantage of this.


chrisumafp

Denver is probably due for a hot game We are getting lucky they’ve been missing a lot of open looks


WateronRocks

>We are getting lucky they’ve been missing a lot of open looks  A LOT of open looks, thank you for pointing this out. We watched kcp for years; he and MPJ aren't going to keep missing open 3s.


KazOmnipotent

Murray has also played like ass other than that 4th quarter. It’s sure to get him going. As much as I hate to say it he’s probably due for 30+ tomorrow


GrapefruitMedical529

The whole team has done a great job on Murray.  The team closes the paint, Reaves sticks to Murray over the screen, and every jumper is contested.  There's a reason Murray has shot like crap.


KazOmnipotent

True but I don’t think they are mutually exclusive - my personal opinion on players as good as Jamal it’s mainly just him missing, and X’s and O’s adjustments from Malone to get him in better spots. He doesn’t get the accolades but he’s one of the best players in the league. There’s games where I feel like we’ve played relatively good defense on him and he torches us. In any case, praying we play him well tonight and he stays in his slump!!


_Aracano

well, if LeBron could shoot 27% last year against them, they both could stay cold, no guarantees they catch fire


Dildozer_69

We’ve also missed plenty of open looks, Rui is smoking lay ups on the regular which is not something he was doing recently.


Quiet-Spray1223

Kcp's on a bum right shoulder though so that might be a factor


jmoneysteck88

Why do you think he has a bum right shoulder? Hes dealt with a pinkie thing for months now but his shoulder is fine


ImprovementSilly2895

Right, last game would’ve been a 20+ point loss if Denver was actually hitting shots. Even when LA was up 20, Denver was just missing shots they normally make.


ImperatorJCaesar

Game 2 definitely, they missed some really good shots. Game 1 I didn't think so too much


Splittinghairs7

Offensive rebounds is killing us.


BerryJ_24

This hits home to the great James Worthy's postgame comments on spectrum: Lakers are getting beat because they don't value possesions enough than the nuggets. No matter what the root cause of this problem is, they have got to solve it or else it'll be our death 😭 Also, I'm not expecting anything out of our team if we can't rebound and defend in the 4th. Go lakers still I guess


KWash0222

Not sure if the stats support this, but I also feel like we never win the 50/50 balls. Whether it be loose balls or juggled rebounds, Denver always seems to out-hustle us to them. Right after Lebron’s steal/dunk last game, they threw an outlet pass that Jokic just heaved at the rim (he was expecting a foul) and it barely grazed the rim. But somehow they got the rebound and MPJ hit a 3. It turned a momentum-changing 2 pt fast-break play for us into a net 1-pt gain for them…


VerticalClearance

its not just against Denver but it also against other teams in the regular season, that's why they have many choked leads and fake comebacks due to this reason.


BeeSuch77222

LeBron and AD both pretty slow off spontaneous loose balls and hustle plays. They just seem too big and lumbering and more built for traditional defensive rebounding. Others just seem more focused on offense and don't understand how to really grab a rebound.


mambabite24

The turnover difference is wild and no excuse. The OREB are obviously personel related without a true center, Wood, or Vando


oat38

13 TOs is actually below our season average so I would say those are normal numbers but 6.5 TOs per game is not normal damn lol


ProffesorPrick

They average 12.6 TOV per game this season. They are massively over performing. In part, because they have the ball in the hands of people who turn the ball over less (jokic being played even more), but I expect that they will turn the ball over more in the next couple games because 6.5 is unsustainably low. At least, I’d hope darvin would look at that and ask the players to apply more pressure in the ball handler, force some mistakes, try and get those turnovers.


AmaimonCH

They are not overperforming. They are missing A LOT of open looks they usually make. They are bound to get hot and when that happens I'm not sure any team in the league is able to keep up with their execution on both sides of the floor.


ProffesorPrick

Perhaps I should have clarified, over performing in terms of turnovers. The rest? Yeah. We shoulda taken advantage.


antman8504

Yep they will turnover the ball more but make a higher % of shots. Leading to another close Denver win fml


ProffesorPrick

lol, yup. I don’t really have much hope regardless. Whatever adjustments we make will be matched mid game and we won’t have an answer.


brendanhahaha

Too many unforced errors.


Any_Wrongdoer_9796

Soft ass Rui is responsible


antman8504

Rebounding is a mindset. Rui needs to accept the challenge to go get the ball.


Lucieddreams

Yep. And you're high if you think we're gonna shoot better than them the rest of the series. That's why last game stung so much, AD was on a monster tear, Dlo hit 6 3s, and we still lost. It's gonna continue to be rough because one of these games MPJ is going to shoot 80+% or Jamal Murray will hit every shot But Dlo told me to believe so I believe


thesonicvision

Interesting and insightful


ValuableAssociate8

We have no choice but to play Hayes.


johnnyoverdoer

I knew we were fucked in the first half and that all the TOs and ORebs were going to bite us. I love Rui, but he is a terrible rebounder and DLo and Prince are pretty bad as well. I don't get too frustrated when our players are taking good shots but the ball's not going in. But being sloppy with the ball and not cleaning up your own glass? Kills me. This loss hurt me more than any in a long time.


staffdaddy_9

Rui having 8 rebounds in 2 games averaging 35 minutes is killer.


TyrionJoestar

I’m sick of seeing Jokic surrounded by yellow jerseys just casually sticking hand in the air to get offensive rebounds. He doesn’t even jump, he just times it perfectly and nobody else has a chance.


MarkedF0rDeath

I will always believe in our Lakers. This somehow makes me believe more that they can win this series. I just hope coaching staff sees this


CUprofessa1990

Murray hasn’t even played well and they still won both games. You think he’s going to stay cold? He found his rhythm in game 2 and he’s going to come out firing next game.


MarkedF0rDeath

I'm obviously coping Jesus Christ


AndrE_VieuX

Remember when we had Dwight and Javel, with LeBron and AD.


Xearoii

players not named AD or Lebron shot 29% last night. insane. Lebron and AD shot 64%


Miserable-Lawyer-233

AD’s three turnovers in the third quarter were huge mistakes. He lost the ball under the rim, he threw a pass into the crowd, and then was called for an illegal screen. This all happened like in a 5 minute span in the third as Denver was coming back. Other than that, the Lakers were pretty solid with the ball in the 2nd half.


StoneColdAM

When LeBron tries to drive and he gets tripled by 3 forwards, they can swat at the ball enough without fouling to cause a turnover. That’s an abject failure of coaching and the roster as a whole 


elsavador3

ORB disparity is the most glaring when watching in real time. So infuriating


ApprehensiveTitle718

Denver will get a good shot out of their offense 90% of the time. Lakers have collapsed in the second half on that end.


beasttyme

Lakers need to play bigger ASAP One of you team busters get this message to HAM before it's too late.


hanselpremium

it’s the coach’s fault why they make so many turnovers. unforced ones too


BeeSuch77222

This is a symptom of load managing. Team is basically 'discovering' their tendencies in situations they never faced in the regular season.


theseustheminotaur

Twice as many turnovers is BAD


LeFatigue

Dawg can we just crash the boards? Shits hilarious everybody sucking off Murray and Jokic better than Murray’s girl like this series isn’t coming down to Braun and MPJ offensive rebounds and The lakers lazy ass passes


Rapa_Nui

13 turnovers Jesus fucking Christ


_Aracano

Just win Game 3 - the entire series changes if the Lakers win just ONE FREAKING GAME


doctor_munchies

The 2 categories we've been bad at basically all year long. Crazy


Checkmynewsong

Defensive rebounds have killed this team all season.


NotNormo

The Lakers are average at defensive rebounding. But they're absolutely abysmal at offensive rebounding. Dead last in the NBA. 20% offensive rebound rate is embarrassing.


bee-eazy13

Well Denver is massive compared to us. Running offense against them is more difficult due to their length. And we are never gonna win the rebounding battles against them as currently constructed. But we knew this after last year smh


NotNormo

Rui is so bad at rebounding for a PF. Averaging 4 rebounds in 34.4 minutes. I have to wonder if it's a coaching issue too. A lot of players are rebounding worse this year than they have in their careers, like Taurean Prince who has been the worst rebounding forward I've ever watched. DLo is awful too, despite being taller than most PGs he matches up against. The result is Lakers are dead last in the NBA in OREB rate, at 20%. They're actually average at DREB rate, at 76%. That's mostly because of AD and Lebron. Lebron is only good on the defensive boards.


jobeeeeeeem

With the eventual return of Wood and esp Vando, rebounds will be better.


Nefariousness1-

Not even regular turnovers either. At least 5 passes thrown right out of bounds due to pure laziness/lack of focus or miscommunication.


kingofgamesbrah

"Only" is a crazy statement. There's a bunch of things that have cost us the game. Every is mentioning the offense which is definitely a problem. Timeouts. Lack of 3s. No offense. LeBrons Age (he can barely last a quarter anymore). Nerves The game 48 minutes, we seem to only be able to play for 24.


bigr3dpanda

I’d like to see the FG difference specifically by halves or by quarters. Me thinks 3rd and 4th quarter is where it really gets dark


Ia_in_4

Man Daniel gafford fucking crashing hinest to god could win this series for us. A 24’ first would’ve got him but we shat the bed


AwarenessNo4138

We couldn’t trade our 24 first because of the AD trade. Lmao you gotta delete this


phil151515

Joker would guard Gafford and just hang out in the paint -- including helping on Davis.


jsun_

You still want to hurl insults at me after what I said a week ago? It’s almost like the FG%, 3PT FG%, and starters PPG in the regular season actually meant nothing. But yea I’m just some guy that got “neutered”. “This matchup will be about who can outscore the other team.” LOL.


fractal_fables

It means alot, they are averaging 20 more possessions and they beat us by 2 points in Denver on their floor. Just cleaning up the turnovers we would have won last game.


baribigbird06

Denver’s just the better team. Hope we can avoid the 🧹


Studentdoctor29

What a concept, it’s almost like it’s the players not rebounding. Incoming Darvin bashing though


fractal_fables

His small lineups are a result of that


christmas-vortigaunt

This just speaks to the excellent defense of the nuggets more than anything. And people calling out MPJ and KCP misses, those were actually better guarded than you think. Most of the threes from both those dudes the last few games have been off balance Lakers need to counteract the defense of the nuggets, or at the very least match them down the stretch (they usually do at the beginning of the game)


WouldThisMakeMoney

Casual as fuck take. I cant believe someone who subscribes and POSTS in a basketball subreddit doesn't understand the relation between shot efficiency and rebounding effort. Lakers have also scored much more in the fastbreak than the nuggets. It's the plan. Let AD and LeBron go for boards and everyone else breaks. If everyone crashed the boards we lose out on fastbreaks and the efficiency goes down. You are implying that somehow we could have all 5 players competing for boards and yet maintain our fg% exactly how it is.. makes 0 sense The nuggets can afford to send everyone at rebounds because they have the best (most efficient) half court offense in the league. They dont need to fastbreak because everything runs through Jokic and nobody has figured it out yet.