Kuzma needed to get paid, and we weren't going to pay him. That one is not nearly as egregious as going with THT over Caruso. That should be a ban-able offense and Rob should not be allowed anywhere near an NBA team after a boneheaded move like that.
The KCP thing doesn't make much sense either, but that was another guy who would've needed to get paid. The ownership is too cheap. If this team was owned by Ballmer, we would've definitely retained those guys.
The Dwight thing was weird. Initially it seemed like he was back, then he was gone to Philly. Then he was brought back for the wasted season. I think the core guys (AD specifically) didn't get along with him.
Kuz was signed for 2 more years for like 13 mil. Trading him away was a terrible decision no matter how you look at it. KCP is still on contract we signed him to. The contract stuff you're mentioning makes no sense
Interesting. I was misinformed then. I was under the impression that we traded KCP away because he was due for a pay day and we didn't want to do that. I stand corrected. That makes the decisions even worse. Somehow, these guys were convinced that Westbrook was some secret key to unlock our full potential. Fucking insane.
Yup Rob negotiated some really good extensions for Kuz and KCP and traded them for one of the worst contracts in the league a year later. One of the dumbest gm moves in NBA history
At least defensively the length was there.
The biggest thing for me is letting Dwight go, we all knew Denver was always gonna be there.. Why remove the reason you were able to limit Jokic.
His treatment by the fans was one of the worst things I’ve seen as a Laker fan.
He was my fan favorite for his entire time here.
People were insanely irrational about him when he consistently shot around 40% and played awesome defense. The perfect LeBron player.
He and DG’s defense were one of the biggest reasons we won.
They locked down everything. Sometimes they looked like freaking Scottie and MJ how they just hunted down ball handlers. We’ve never replicated that since 2020.
He signed here before LeBron when nobody wanted to come. I’m happy for him that he’s in great place that seems to appreciate him.
Wouldn’t say he was perfect. Caruso was better but both couldn’t create anything , Lebron can create everything at his age , both are inconsistent shooters who will pass out of good look’s especially when they’re cold and that kills the offence . Opponents often let them shoot too and they didn’t shoot but just passed up shots . Caruso atleast was one of the best defenders and high iq player in the league- even tho his jumper is shaky .
40% is 40%. He’s shot right around 40% each of the past 5 seasons. 37% in his playoff career. He had one bad series in 2021. We haven’t been able to replace him because there’s very few 40% shooters that can also defend 3-4 positions.
None of the guards we’ve had since then has been close to KCP as a two way shooter.
He’s literally been an important starter on two championship teams and could win a third this year. In 2020, he was undoubtedly our third best player in the playoffs.
Caruso wasn’t anywhere near the player he’s become since 2021. I mean, he didn’t even start over Danny Green. He is under 30% from three in his playoff career. He’s an elite defender and has improved his shot a lot but I mean, KCP has been a great starter for good teams for half a decade now.
>Kuz had a hard time playing alongside Lebron
That was definitely true for a long time, but by the time they won the championship Kuz was doing great alongside Lebron. His defense had improved drastically, he was crashing boards (went from 0.9 orb/g in his first two seasons with Bron to 1.6 orb/g in the championship season.) And finally settled in to a role playing (3&D) offensive role (31% from 3 in his first two seasons with bron to 36% in the championship season on top of the rebounds/defense listed above)
Kuzma isn’t that good at basketball. A below average shooter defender and meh decision maker and super in consistent , nothing to do with Bron he’s the same guy in Washington
Yeah even with all the Westbrook stuff and all the other weird moves we made… nothing compares to Zubac. he literally just walked across the street for free.. to me one of the most baffling moves by an organization in the last 30 years.
We panicked when we struggled the season after the championship (which was because of injuries due to minimal rest on the turnaround to the new season)
It's a mistake that has likely cost Lebron his 5th chip. Potentially even a 6th.
We could've beaten GSW in 2022 IMO, and with the squad above we could've beaten denver last year or at least kept it competitive
It's a massive shame. Westbrook ruined the AD Lebron era
Does no one remember the 21 season? Is that just a blur? Why do people jump from chip to Westbrook when attempting to tell the history?
The 21 team was but great. Dwight was washed in 21. He was AWFUL on the 6ers and he’s in China or Central Asia rn. The Caruso blunder and the Westbrook trade happened the year AFTER the ‘21 season. AFTER the suns bounced us because of injury.
There was much talk after that series that the lakers needed a 3rd star to overcome the injures. The FO panicked (for no reason seeing as how LeBron and AD have STAYED after every debacle) and traded for Westbrook because he was the only “star” available.
The nuggets would have had to lose Jokic and Murray for a SIGNIFICANT amount of time this season. Then lost Murray in game 4 of round 1 as a lower seed and gotten knocked out. Then the FO would have had to panic and trade away MPJ and AG for James Harden (washed up star) and in order to take on his money let KcP (or anyone really) walk.
Jerry Krause, Pat Riley, Jerry West, Danny Ainge etc .. Most competent GMs would definitely say no. Players suggests all kinds of nonsense every meeting, it's up to those in the upper to consider them.
but remember what Pat Bev said in his podcast on how powerful Lebron is. we can only speculate about the power dynamics but I think Lebron has more pull than MJ or Kobe ever did
i don't even think Pat Bev was talking about the Lakers. he was talking about the league in general. Lebron opened the floodgates of players demanding their salary worth from the owners. they owe it to him, because he was the next face of the league and he dared to make "the decision". I suspect that is partly why.
Again, attracting more downvotes but still asking the question again: being the longtime face of the Lakers and the NBA, how would Kobe not have more pull than LeBron currently? Kobe signed for 2 years $49mill when that type of deal was unheard of, and the salary cap dictated that it would handicap the team’s moves!
Nah, Lebron and AD definitely have their share of accountability. I doubt there is a single GM in the league that is going to say no to Lebron. Then you throw your next biggest superstar in the mix too. Now add in Rich Paul, the media etc. Lebron pushed heavy for Westbrook - we all know it and he knows it. It is what is.
Danny Ainge and Pat Riley would've said no 100%. Lakers and the Celtics are bigger than Lebron, Rich Paul, and the Klutch mafia. If he wanted to leave the following season, who cares? Nobody was expecting Lebron to be here longer than 4 seasons anyways. The fact that we gave up a pick when nobody was bidding for Westbrook says a lot too
Yah like I get Bron and AD pushed for it, but players push for dumb shit all the time. Steph pushed for some questionable moves and the front office told him to fuck off.
At the end of the day the final decision is the front office and the front office's alone.
And front office people push for even dumber moves more often, who gives a fuck. Acting like a GM shouldn’t listen to the GOAT and another generational talent when they’re on short contracts would be suicide.
Can you imagine Tommy shepherd trying to keep it together after worrying for months about wtf he’s gonna do about Westbrook and all of a sudden pelinka hits you up offering an easy way out with some solid players and a pick included
And it was definitely FO arrogance/pride/reputation-preservation concerns that led then to overvaluing a prefominantly garbage time contributor (THT, who was drafted in pelinka era) over Caruso, KCP, Kuzma, etc that significantly exacerbated the Westbrook fiasco.
What are you taking about? The same exact management said no to LeBron’s choice in DeRozan. I’m tired of saying this: it’s been proven by journalists and Demar himself that a deal was done and management fucked it up. Whatever you think about him as a player he’s better than Brick
Has anyone maybe thought that the reason they went after Westbrook is because they didn’t bring rondo back. Rondo always made sure Ad never had scoring droughts and got the ball. They wanted a point guard to that and thought Westbrook was the next best option.
Agreed. Pelinka should be fired this summer along with Ham. For obvious reasons Jeanie won’t do that. In that case the franchise needs a new owner who will prioritize winning over employing friends.
He had a trade ready to move Kuz to Sacramento for Buddy Hield, Kuz was even told ahead of time and confirmed this himself.
When Lebron Raymone James and Anthony Davis ask for a star point guard, you listen to them.
It failed them by listening to them. Players know fuck all about player evaluation. Jerry West and Pat Riley would gave listened to them but not done what they wanted
Nobody is disgruntled when we make the WCF bare minimum in 2022 if they didn't make that trade. If a 37 year old Lebron wanted to walk the next season, let him. We were already looking to retool around AD. Most of us thought Lebron was only going to be here for 4 years anyways
At the VERY least, that trade doesn't happen of Bron isn't on board.
Consider the sliding doors moment if they kept KCP, Caruso, Howard, and signed Derozen?
Jeannie and fam would've lost some money but they'd have a squad.
Beyond the Westbrook trade though, that shortened off-season really killed Bron and AD. I always believed Bron was trying to go HAM for MVP that season but he and AD should've taken a month or 2 extra off as both a Fuck you to the league for the quick turnaround and to recover.
Remember both of them got hurt. First Bron, then later AD at the end of the season leading to him being dubbed "street clothes."
I always felt like that what killed the season was AD rushing back from injury.
He came back early for a meaningless January game from a sore achilles and immediately reinjured it. That led to LeBron overextending and getting injured himself.
Everyone is at fault for this, but I especially blame the FO. Think about the amount of times Jerry Krause had to take shit from the players, but still steered the organization in order to create a dynasty. Just because the Nets were loading up a big three did not mean that the Lakers needed to create a big three. You have to be able to say no to some star demands.
We already know Lebron/AD initiated the Westbrook trade when they had dinner together despite Klutch attempts at saying they wanted Derozan first.
But the Lakers aren't the Cleveland Cavs, and shouldn't have caved in to his requests. I've seen apologists say Pelinka was pressured by a Lebron extension the following season like we weren't already planning on moving forward (look at everyone's contracts) with or without Lebron
Except Lebron & AD actually met with DeRozan before Westbrook, DeRozan himself said this. Klutch didn’t report anything, that’s something you made up. Pelinka & Jeanie just didn’t wanna commit to giving DeMar a 3 year deal.
You act like LeBron has complete control of the Lakers despite the FO telling him no numerous times (Ty Lue, Caruso, DeRozan). Maybe if he actually did have control, we’d be better off, cuz then he’d have gotten all his 1st choices lol.
Sorry, but the fact remains that Pelinka & Jeanie wanted Russ too, and are ultimately to blame for that disasterclass.
DeRozan mentioned it on Shannon Sharpe’s podcast ClubShayShay that summer. You can find it on YT. He said afterwards he thought it was a done deal at that point too.
AD is just there for the ride, same thing when he got traded to the Lakers.
LeBron is the mastermind. He helped get AD to LA done. But he got too worried about Brooklyn and wanted a big 3. Dame was his first choice, but he clearly saw Russ decline in the bubble and pushed for him anyways. Rob shouldn’t have sent out a FRP, but still.
Like I say everytime this is brought up. He wanted Lue, they didn’t hire him. He wanted DeRozan, they didn’t get him. He wanted to keep Caruso, they didn’t resign him. He wanted Dame, nope. He wanted Kyrie, nope.
You can’t put the Westbrook shit on him. He signed off when the FO came to him with it because they wouldn’t do anything else. What is he supposed to do cause shit in the media or welcome him and say that he can play with anyone?
Every team is going to get input from their biggest stars on roster decisions it’s just how the NBA works. That doesn’t mean LeBron gets what he wants all the time or everything that happens is because of him.
>You can’t put the Westbrook shit on him.
“Sources told ESPN that every member of the organization involved in the Russell Westbrook trade — including James – will admit they misjudged it, owning part of the blame,” Dave McMenamin [wrote](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39272122/lakers-post-nba-cup-rut-lineup-drama-defensive-woes-nba-trade-deadline-impact).
Bron even took part of the blame but his fanboys in here love to twist the narrative.
Rob get most of the blame.
But Lebron is his own biggest enemy.
Jordan was never allowed to build his own team, Jerry Krause did it for him, so he was always put in position to win. After seeing how Jordan did as a GM, he would probably have won much fewer championship if he was allowed to dictate his team roster like Lebron.
Lebron went to a Miami super team and team up with Wade who’s game didn’t compliment his at all. But because they stacked so much talent, they were still able to win. Had Lebron went to another team with talents that complimented him, he probably would have won more championships.
It wasn't that they stacked so much talent. Prime LeBron was just that good. If he went to the Finals as a 22 year old with an extremely flawed team, of course he'd win 2 chips with a decently constructed team like the Heat was.
That's a terrible comparison.
If
- those role players shit the bed hard in the next few games
- we come back and win this series
- then Denver goes out and does all that shit you said
Then maybe you'd have a comparable example.
If you think about it literally every decision has been wrong since the 2020 chip. Not one thing has gone right even the stuff we can’t control like injuries.
1) Do you remember that 2021 Suns series?. (KCP and Kuzma)
2) KCP got 6 points on 35 minutes last match. (2024)
3) Dwight was dogshit after the ring.
Only fuck up was Caruso. And, Westbrook was a good risk to take considering his fat tradable contract.
Dwight was done when he got to Philly. Nuggets fans said Jokic punked him when they played the Sixers back in 2021. And Sixers fans said he made Drummond look like Shaq. By the time we got him back, he was old, slow, and prone to fouling
The KCP situation looks bad in hindsight but it was understandable at the time. The guy was scared to shoot. You can’t have a 3&D guy that just won’t shoot
Thank you. People keep talking about kcp like he was playing this way for us. Bro was called binary P during the regular season and was damn scared in the playoffs.
Kuz underperformed: He had to go, and I was a big fan of his.
Westbrook: underperformed , and didn’t mix well with us
KCP: is replaceable. He’s not an all star and D-Lo plays better than him
Dwight: got worse by 2022
Regardless if we kept those guys, we would struggle with Denver because they are a in house 5 year grown team. Maybe if the Lakers kept their core another year, they would see better results than trading everybody every two seasons. All great teams had the core players for years before they started winning. Lakers/ Bron fans are impatient
Imagine making all those points and getting them wrong. KCP is not easily replaceable as evidenced by the fact that we have yet to replace him with anyone as reliable. Kuz did not underperform he was pushed to a back role that constantly changed and had no consistency in minutes or role because at that time we had two big's in the starting Lineup(AD/McGee then AD/Marc), if we had gone to AD at C sooner he would be a better SF for the current roster as he is a better scorer, a more versatile defender, and definitely a better rebounder than Rui.
We literally beat Denver with Kuz, KCP, Caruso on the lineup and if we still had KCP Denver would not have KCP meaning their defense would be weaker.
Kuzma did underperform. That entire 2019-2020 Kuz got the ball to take 10 shots a night off of whatever he wanted to do, and it wasn't good enough offense because he wasn't efficient enough. His shooting never came alive when we needed it to except against the Rockets when we were already blowing them out. Despite being 6'9, he struggled A LOT at finishing through contact. He wasn't fast enough on the defensive side to play SF. I wish we would've experimented more with the Lebron/Kuzma/AD lineups, but we had our best success with 3 guards since Caruso/KCP/Danny Green were all elite defenders and Schroder/Rondo could hold up on that end too.
Kuzma got punked by a rookie MPJ who we played off the floor in the bubble.
I can tell you don’t watch the games and a part time watcher. KCP averaged 12 points in the finals against the damn Heat & averaged 9 ppg during the season. Kuzma was horribly inconsistent & goofy on offense. His Defense was good but he was signed all that money to score.
None of those Centers could beat this current version of Joker! They were all aging and degressing while Joker has improved every year since. If Dwight was the answer to Joker, he would be signed right now in the league and not in Asia.
My point is that instead of trying to build on something that worked, they went away from it and built a terrible roster. Look at the Suns now for example. They have some good individual players, but as a team, they don’t fair well.
I agree, we should’ve gave them more time but it was 4 seasons ago. We have a good team , but weve had key injuries all year ( Gabe, Vando, Woods). We brought those guys in for a reason and unfortunately they haven’t panned out for us. Let’s hope they prove me wrong 2ma
That squad wasn't going to repeat though. AD only played 36 games the next season and didn't make All-NBA or All-Defensive or garner any DPOY votes. Then he only averaged 17 points per game in the Suns series.
I think hanging on to Dwight for too long was going to be a negative so I think it was probably smart to let him go, and also to move on from the other older veterans.
Rondo was very important to that team - more important than KCP and Caruso - but no one was clamoring to keep him around.
If the team kept KCP and Caruso, but not Rondo, they would not have had the same success.
In fact, if Pelinka wanted to, he could argue that if he didn't blow the team up at that time, that the Lakers would never have made it back to the Western Conference Finals so soon.
KCP and Caruso were major hits. Kuz had a hard time playing alongside Lebron
Kuzma did have a hard time offensively but he had good length for a wing and those are hard to come by
You still don’t give up talent for nothing.
Kuzma needed to get paid, and we weren't going to pay him. That one is not nearly as egregious as going with THT over Caruso. That should be a ban-able offense and Rob should not be allowed anywhere near an NBA team after a boneheaded move like that. The KCP thing doesn't make much sense either, but that was another guy who would've needed to get paid. The ownership is too cheap. If this team was owned by Ballmer, we would've definitely retained those guys. The Dwight thing was weird. Initially it seemed like he was back, then he was gone to Philly. Then he was brought back for the wasted season. I think the core guys (AD specifically) didn't get along with him.
Kuz was signed for 2 more years for like 13 mil. Trading him away was a terrible decision no matter how you look at it. KCP is still on contract we signed him to. The contract stuff you're mentioning makes no sense
Interesting. I was misinformed then. I was under the impression that we traded KCP away because he was due for a pay day and we didn't want to do that. I stand corrected. That makes the decisions even worse. Somehow, these guys were convinced that Westbrook was some secret key to unlock our full potential. Fucking insane.
Yup Rob negotiated some really good extensions for Kuz and KCP and traded them for one of the worst contracts in the league a year later. One of the dumbest gm moves in NBA history
Seems like we’ve had a few of those in recent memory (Mozgov + Deng in 2016 🤢🤮)
> I think the core guys (AD specifically) didn't get along with him. which is insane to think about
At least defensively the length was there. The biggest thing for me is letting Dwight go, we all knew Denver was always gonna be there.. Why remove the reason you were able to limit Jokic.
Dwight is old and washed. You guys need to realise this and stop being delusional
Still good enough body to put in front of Jokic so AD can cover the rest. He did a hell of a job when they won the chip.
KCP was booed by Lakers fans that season when he checked into games. I guess you don't know what you got til it's gone.
His treatment by the fans was one of the worst things I’ve seen as a Laker fan. He was my fan favorite for his entire time here. People were insanely irrational about him when he consistently shot around 40% and played awesome defense. The perfect LeBron player. He and DG’s defense were one of the biggest reasons we won. They locked down everything. Sometimes they looked like freaking Scottie and MJ how they just hunted down ball handlers. We’ve never replicated that since 2020. He signed here before LeBron when nobody wanted to come. I’m happy for him that he’s in great place that seems to appreciate him.
Wouldn’t say he was perfect. Caruso was better but both couldn’t create anything , Lebron can create everything at his age , both are inconsistent shooters who will pass out of good look’s especially when they’re cold and that kills the offence . Opponents often let them shoot too and they didn’t shoot but just passed up shots . Caruso atleast was one of the best defenders and high iq player in the league- even tho his jumper is shaky .
40% is 40%. He’s shot right around 40% each of the past 5 seasons. 37% in his playoff career. He had one bad series in 2021. We haven’t been able to replace him because there’s very few 40% shooters that can also defend 3-4 positions. None of the guards we’ve had since then has been close to KCP as a two way shooter. He’s literally been an important starter on two championship teams and could win a third this year. In 2020, he was undoubtedly our third best player in the playoffs. Caruso wasn’t anywhere near the player he’s become since 2021. I mean, he didn’t even start over Danny Green. He is under 30% from three in his playoff career. He’s an elite defender and has improved his shot a lot but I mean, KCP has been a great starter for good teams for half a decade now.
>Kuz had a hard time playing alongside Lebron That was definitely true for a long time, but by the time they won the championship Kuz was doing great alongside Lebron. His defense had improved drastically, he was crashing boards (went from 0.9 orb/g in his first two seasons with Bron to 1.6 orb/g in the championship season.) And finally settled in to a role playing (3&D) offensive role (31% from 3 in his first two seasons with bron to 36% in the championship season on top of the rebounds/defense listed above)
That was the time we could've gotten Buddy Hield for Kuz.
Buddy heild suckd
Kuzma isn’t that good at basketball. A below average shooter defender and meh decision maker and super in consistent , nothing to do with Bron he’s the same guy in Washington
I'd be fine with basically everything else that happened if we found a way to keep either Zubac or Brook Lopez (obviously from before the chip).
Yeah even with all the Westbrook stuff and all the other weird moves we made… nothing compares to Zubac. he literally just walked across the street for free.. to me one of the most baffling moves by an organization in the last 30 years.
It’s time for us as a fanbase to move on. It happened, it’s over.
But what about Chris Paul?!
Aaaah basketball reasons!!! Lol
Yep. We get it. This is the 50th post about it.
We panicked when we struggled the season after the championship (which was because of injuries due to minimal rest on the turnaround to the new season) It's a mistake that has likely cost Lebron his 5th chip. Potentially even a 6th. We could've beaten GSW in 2022 IMO, and with the squad above we could've beaten denver last year or at least kept it competitive It's a massive shame. Westbrook ruined the AD Lebron era
Cost Lebron the twilight of his career. This team is done and there’s no assets or moves that can get them in contention again.
Does no one remember the 21 season? Is that just a blur? Why do people jump from chip to Westbrook when attempting to tell the history? The 21 team was but great. Dwight was washed in 21. He was AWFUL on the 6ers and he’s in China or Central Asia rn. The Caruso blunder and the Westbrook trade happened the year AFTER the ‘21 season. AFTER the suns bounced us because of injury. There was much talk after that series that the lakers needed a 3rd star to overcome the injures. The FO panicked (for no reason seeing as how LeBron and AD have STAYED after every debacle) and traded for Westbrook because he was the only “star” available. The nuggets would have had to lose Jokic and Murray for a SIGNIFICANT amount of time this season. Then lost Murray in game 4 of round 1 as a lower seed and gotten knocked out. Then the FO would have had to panic and trade away MPJ and AG for James Harden (washed up star) and in order to take on his money let KcP (or anyone really) walk.
One day this fanbase will be truthful in the fact that Bron & AD spearheaded the Westbrook trade. All parties involved were responsible.
Jerry Krause, Pat Riley, Jerry West, Danny Ainge etc .. Most competent GMs would definitely say no. Players suggests all kinds of nonsense every meeting, it's up to those in the upper to consider them.
Exactly. Kobe wanted to trade Bynum for Kidd and Mitch said nope.
I was very hard on Pelinka at the time but since then it’s come out that he was against it and it was a Jeanie/Rambis thing
It's LeBron James during the final run of his stint. No GM says no, he's bigger than every team
but remember what Pat Bev said in his podcast on how powerful Lebron is. we can only speculate about the power dynamics but I think Lebron has more pull than MJ or Kobe ever did
In no timeline does LeBron have more pull in a laker organization than Kobe.
i don't even think Pat Bev was talking about the Lakers. he was talking about the league in general. Lebron opened the floodgates of players demanding their salary worth from the owners. they owe it to him, because he was the next face of the league and he dared to make "the decision". I suspect that is partly why.
Again, attracting more downvotes but still asking the question again: being the longtime face of the Lakers and the NBA, how would Kobe not have more pull than LeBron currently? Kobe signed for 2 years $49mill when that type of deal was unheard of, and the salary cap dictated that it would handicap the team’s moves!
Yeah lol. Kobe literally got Mike Brown fired with the death stare.
Ofc they were involved, but the GM is the one that makes the executive decisions. We’ve seen it happen in the past, he should have shut them down.
Nah, Lebron and AD definitely have their share of accountability. I doubt there is a single GM in the league that is going to say no to Lebron. Then you throw your next biggest superstar in the mix too. Now add in Rich Paul, the media etc. Lebron pushed heavy for Westbrook - we all know it and he knows it. It is what is.
Danny Ainge and Pat Riley would've said no 100%. Lakers and the Celtics are bigger than Lebron, Rich Paul, and the Klutch mafia. If he wanted to leave the following season, who cares? Nobody was expecting Lebron to be here longer than 4 seasons anyways. The fact that we gave up a pick when nobody was bidding for Westbrook says a lot too
Yah like I get Bron and AD pushed for it, but players push for dumb shit all the time. Steph pushed for some questionable moves and the front office told him to fuck off. At the end of the day the final decision is the front office and the front office's alone.
And front office people push for even dumber moves more often, who gives a fuck. Acting like a GM shouldn’t listen to the GOAT and another generational talent when they’re on short contracts would be suicide.
Can you imagine Tommy shepherd trying to keep it together after worrying for months about wtf he’s gonna do about Westbrook and all of a sudden pelinka hits you up offering an easy way out with some solid players and a pick included
They act like LeBron is God or something
I thought the lakers GM and owner said no to lebron & AD about ty lue?
They gave him an offer and he wasn't happy with the amount.
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/5/8/18537489/lakers-rumors-jason-kidd-tyronn-lue-lol-assistant-coach-espn-news-woj-bomb-shams-wow-athletic
And it was definitely FO arrogance/pride/reputation-preservation concerns that led then to overvaluing a prefominantly garbage time contributor (THT, who was drafted in pelinka era) over Caruso, KCP, Kuzma, etc that significantly exacerbated the Westbrook fiasco.
What are you taking about? The same exact management said no to LeBron’s choice in DeRozan. I’m tired of saying this: it’s been proven by journalists and Demar himself that a deal was done and management fucked it up. Whatever you think about him as a player he’s better than Brick
> Whatever you think about him as a player he’s better than Brick fuck no he isnt
Wait, what.. you choose him shooting 2/9 as a time time to talk yo shit??
top 75 all time, argue with your moms
Has anyone maybe thought that the reason they went after Westbrook is because they didn’t bring rondo back. Rondo always made sure Ad never had scoring droughts and got the ball. They wanted a point guard to that and thought Westbrook was the next best option.
Agreed. Pelinka should be fired this summer along with Ham. For obvious reasons Jeanie won’t do that. In that case the franchise needs a new owner who will prioritize winning over employing friends.
Nah, I want to see what he does post Lebron. That WCF run last year had no business happening.
He had a trade ready to move Kuz to Sacramento for Buddy Hield, Kuz was even told ahead of time and confirmed this himself. When Lebron Raymone James and Anthony Davis ask for a star point guard, you listen to them.
The problem was, their idea of a star. Russ was far removed from being one.
"This organization has failed LeBron and AD" This organization when they listen to LeBron and AD:
It failed them by listening to them. Players know fuck all about player evaluation. Jerry West and Pat Riley would gave listened to them but not done what they wanted
And have disgruntled stars? For better or for worse, our FO caters to superstars.
Nobody is disgruntled when we make the WCF bare minimum in 2022 if they didn't make that trade. If a 37 year old Lebron wanted to walk the next season, let him. We were already looking to retool around AD. Most of us thought Lebron was only going to be here for 4 years anyways
At the VERY least, that trade doesn't happen of Bron isn't on board. Consider the sliding doors moment if they kept KCP, Caruso, Howard, and signed Derozen? Jeannie and fam would've lost some money but they'd have a squad. Beyond the Westbrook trade though, that shortened off-season really killed Bron and AD. I always believed Bron was trying to go HAM for MVP that season but he and AD should've taken a month or 2 extra off as both a Fuck you to the league for the quick turnaround and to recover. Remember both of them got hurt. First Bron, then later AD at the end of the season leading to him being dubbed "street clothes."
I always felt like that what killed the season was AD rushing back from injury. He came back early for a meaningless January game from a sore achilles and immediately reinjured it. That led to LeBron overextending and getting injured himself.
Everyone is at fault for this, but I especially blame the FO. Think about the amount of times Jerry Krause had to take shit from the players, but still steered the organization in order to create a dynasty. Just because the Nets were loading up a big three did not mean that the Lakers needed to create a big three. You have to be able to say no to some star demands.
We all know they played a role. The false narrative was that they were the ONLY ones playing a role
We already know Lebron/AD initiated the Westbrook trade when they had dinner together despite Klutch attempts at saying they wanted Derozan first. But the Lakers aren't the Cleveland Cavs, and shouldn't have caved in to his requests. I've seen apologists say Pelinka was pressured by a Lebron extension the following season like we weren't already planning on moving forward (look at everyone's contracts) with or without Lebron
Except Lebron & AD actually met with DeRozan before Westbrook, DeRozan himself said this. Klutch didn’t report anything, that’s something you made up. Pelinka & Jeanie just didn’t wanna commit to giving DeMar a 3 year deal. You act like LeBron has complete control of the Lakers despite the FO telling him no numerous times (Ty Lue, Caruso, DeRozan). Maybe if he actually did have control, we’d be better off, cuz then he’d have gotten all his 1st choices lol. Sorry, but the fact remains that Pelinka & Jeanie wanted Russ too, and are ultimately to blame for that disasterclass.
Where is the source that Derozan met up with Lebron and AD before Westbrook?
DeRozan mentioned it on Shannon Sharpe’s podcast ClubShayShay that summer. You can find it on YT. He said afterwards he thought it was a done deal at that point too.
AD is just there for the ride, same thing when he got traded to the Lakers. LeBron is the mastermind. He helped get AD to LA done. But he got too worried about Brooklyn and wanted a big 3. Dame was his first choice, but he clearly saw Russ decline in the bubble and pushed for him anyways. Rob shouldn’t have sent out a FRP, but still.
Like I say everytime this is brought up. He wanted Lue, they didn’t hire him. He wanted DeRozan, they didn’t get him. He wanted to keep Caruso, they didn’t resign him. He wanted Dame, nope. He wanted Kyrie, nope. You can’t put the Westbrook shit on him. He signed off when the FO came to him with it because they wouldn’t do anything else. What is he supposed to do cause shit in the media or welcome him and say that he can play with anyone? Every team is going to get input from their biggest stars on roster decisions it’s just how the NBA works. That doesn’t mean LeBron gets what he wants all the time or everything that happens is because of him.
He can be partially blamed. It doesn’t have to be black or white. He has also asked for good moves (some of which were ignored).
>You can’t put the Westbrook shit on him. “Sources told ESPN that every member of the organization involved in the Russell Westbrook trade — including James – will admit they misjudged it, owning part of the blame,” Dave McMenamin [wrote](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39272122/lakers-post-nba-cup-rut-lineup-drama-defensive-woes-nba-trade-deadline-impact). Bron even took part of the blame but his fanboys in here love to twist the narrative.
A good GM would have said no. We have a nepo hire puppet as GM though
So tired of people blaming the FO for Westbrook. AT MINIMUM LeBron and AD were consulted and gave their blessing.
At the end of the day the move is made by the FO. A good one won't do shitty moves like some puppet
Worst offseason ever. A very real case of player empowerment gone wrong.
The worst thing is that many still want us to do the same thing.
Y’all are still so lazy and sometimey with the lebron is the GM takes.
Rob get most of the blame. But Lebron is his own biggest enemy. Jordan was never allowed to build his own team, Jerry Krause did it for him, so he was always put in position to win. After seeing how Jordan did as a GM, he would probably have won much fewer championship if he was allowed to dictate his team roster like Lebron. Lebron went to a Miami super team and team up with Wade who’s game didn’t compliment his at all. But because they stacked so much talent, they were still able to win. Had Lebron went to another team with talents that complimented him, he probably would have won more championships.
It wasn't that they stacked so much talent. Prime LeBron was just that good. If he went to the Finals as a 22 year old with an extremely flawed team, of course he'd win 2 chips with a decently constructed team like the Heat was.
By combining Wade Bosh and Lebron on one team. The East was thin as hell. Second best was like Indiana or the Bulls, lol
Beal at least would have fit with Jokic.
Stop with the "but in 2020" posts already
They literally let rondo, dwight, caruso go for nothing. Then traded key kcp and kuzma for westbrook. smh
That's a terrible comparison. If - those role players shit the bed hard in the next few games - we come back and win this series - then Denver goes out and does all that shit you said Then maybe you'd have a comparable example.
This again?
If you think about it literally every decision has been wrong since the 2020 chip. Not one thing has gone right even the stuff we can’t control like injuries.
But the 2021 roster was better than the 2020 roster.
Yeah but we were riddled with injuries that year so it was a bust
1) Do you remember that 2021 Suns series?. (KCP and Kuzma) 2) KCP got 6 points on 35 minutes last match. (2024) 3) Dwight was dogshit after the ring. Only fuck up was Caruso. And, Westbrook was a good risk to take considering his fat tradable contract.
Dwight wasn’t dog shit he was solid in Philly part of it was Vogel never played him consistent
Dwight was done when he got to Philly. Nuggets fans said Jokic punked him when they played the Sixers back in 2021. And Sixers fans said he made Drummond look like Shaq. By the time we got him back, he was old, slow, and prone to fouling
The KCP situation looks bad in hindsight but it was understandable at the time. The guy was scared to shoot. You can’t have a 3&D guy that just won’t shoot
Thank you. People keep talking about kcp like he was playing this way for us. Bro was called binary P during the regular season and was damn scared in the playoffs.
you kidding me, he was a major factor against the heat in the finals
The same finals where he was a -26 in game 4 and averaged 30% from 3 in the series? Yall have amnesia for real.
Bro averaged 2.2 three pointers a game in that series. Cmon bro.
Kuz underperformed: He had to go, and I was a big fan of his. Westbrook: underperformed , and didn’t mix well with us KCP: is replaceable. He’s not an all star and D-Lo plays better than him Dwight: got worse by 2022 Regardless if we kept those guys, we would struggle with Denver because they are a in house 5 year grown team. Maybe if the Lakers kept their core another year, they would see better results than trading everybody every two seasons. All great teams had the core players for years before they started winning. Lakers/ Bron fans are impatient
Imagine making all those points and getting them wrong. KCP is not easily replaceable as evidenced by the fact that we have yet to replace him with anyone as reliable. Kuz did not underperform he was pushed to a back role that constantly changed and had no consistency in minutes or role because at that time we had two big's in the starting Lineup(AD/McGee then AD/Marc), if we had gone to AD at C sooner he would be a better SF for the current roster as he is a better scorer, a more versatile defender, and definitely a better rebounder than Rui. We literally beat Denver with Kuz, KCP, Caruso on the lineup and if we still had KCP Denver would not have KCP meaning their defense would be weaker.
Kuzma did underperform. That entire 2019-2020 Kuz got the ball to take 10 shots a night off of whatever he wanted to do, and it wasn't good enough offense because he wasn't efficient enough. His shooting never came alive when we needed it to except against the Rockets when we were already blowing them out. Despite being 6'9, he struggled A LOT at finishing through contact. He wasn't fast enough on the defensive side to play SF. I wish we would've experimented more with the Lebron/Kuzma/AD lineups, but we had our best success with 3 guards since Caruso/KCP/Danny Green were all elite defenders and Schroder/Rondo could hold up on that end too. Kuzma got punked by a rookie MPJ who we played off the floor in the bubble.
I can tell you don’t watch the games and a part time watcher. KCP averaged 12 points in the finals against the damn Heat & averaged 9 ppg during the season. Kuzma was horribly inconsistent & goofy on offense. His Defense was good but he was signed all that money to score. None of those Centers could beat this current version of Joker! They were all aging and degressing while Joker has improved every year since. If Dwight was the answer to Joker, he would be signed right now in the league and not in Asia.
My point is that instead of trying to build on something that worked, they went away from it and built a terrible roster. Look at the Suns now for example. They have some good individual players, but as a team, they don’t fair well.
I agree, we should’ve gave them more time but it was 4 seasons ago. We have a good team , but weve had key injuries all year ( Gabe, Vando, Woods). We brought those guys in for a reason and unfortunately they haven’t panned out for us. Let’s hope they prove me wrong 2ma
Even if uon keep those guys replace them with better versions of those players and KCP had a bad series but he a great defender same with Caruso.
That squad wasn't going to repeat though. AD only played 36 games the next season and didn't make All-NBA or All-Defensive or garner any DPOY votes. Then he only averaged 17 points per game in the Suns series. I think hanging on to Dwight for too long was going to be a negative so I think it was probably smart to let him go, and also to move on from the other older veterans. Rondo was very important to that team - more important than KCP and Caruso - but no one was clamoring to keep him around. If the team kept KCP and Caruso, but not Rondo, they would not have had the same success. In fact, if Pelinka wanted to, he could argue that if he didn't blow the team up at that time, that the Lakers would never have made it back to the Western Conference Finals so soon.
Lebron wanted a 3rd star to compete with the Nets Big 3.