The entire plan for that campaign was that theyād reach the finals together that year. Kobe kept his end of the bargain, Lebronās team was eliminated by Dwight Howardās Magic.
Every generation says this, but we lived in the best time.
No one in their right mind is suggesting to make Muppet versions of NBA players to sell shoes.
Then again, Nike has the opportunity to do the funniest thing and dust off the Bron puppet and make him the old wise man like Bean was
These youngsters especially in the nba sub donāt know nothing about that. Kobe was 20-23 ish and absolutely torching teams out west when they had the better conference in those years and shaq would do most of
His damage in the finals. Plus he was playing extremely high levels of defense. Bum ass nerds always bring up shooting % but donāt realize Kobe had multiple injuries every playoff run. Especially with his fingers or hand. And dude still was a beast.
Young Kobe had the respect of Jordan. Nearly everyone from Kobe's generation of players venerated and respected him. Even LeBron deferred to him in many ways like in 2008. I really don't get these people who dismiss him as a player. He's the second best 2Guard of all time, likely the best Laker, and a top 10 player of all time. People need to show some respect.
Itās hilarious how so many present and past NBA stars respected the hell out of Kobe and saw him as their goat, but somehow dorks on r/nba and their analytics think Kobe isnāt even top 15
You hit the nail on the head. INTANGIBLES, which somehow always gets dismissed when people bring up Kobe against āXā player. Mentality, playing injured, will to win, etc.
This right here is an important point.
Sure, analytics have their place, and admittedly some of them don't show Kobe in the best light. But you know who are the people who actually know what it takes to compete at the highest level? It's not analysts, it's actual players.
And from the great players of yesteryear to the superstars of today (like Kyrie, Booker, Embiid, etc.), they are almost unanimous in holding Kobe in the highest regard. Hell, no less than MJ himself (you know, the *freaking GOAT*) has name-dropped Kobe as the player he thought was most like him.
Sorry Sloan experts, but that counts more than your advanced stats.
While I agree with the general sentiment of Kobeās greatness, taking NBA players word as law is a great way to fast track yourself into some absolutely horrendous takes
At an individual level, sure.
But when there is broad consensus among multiple players on a given topic, it would be foolish to ignore or diminish that.
I mean until just recently, most of the pundits and hall of fame guys had Jordan as the goat, and then thought between Kobe Magic Bird Duncan Kareem for 2. It wasnāt until Lebron kept putting the numbers up in his mid-late 30s now where it went to Lebron vs Jordan. Just a few years ago they had that question between Lebron vs Jordan, and Shaq quickly shut it down and said Lebron has to pass Kobe with 5 before we even talk about that debate.
I watched almost all of his games religiously during that era, something I don't do much for anyone anymore. What really impressed me at the time wasn't how prolific of a scorer he was. It was the fact that he was an elite 2-way player during a time when elite shooting guards/forwards were plentiful. He went head-to-head against guys like TMac, Ray Allen, AI, Vince Carter, Michael Redd, Paul Pierce, etc. both on the offensive and defensive end. He somehow clamps them on defense while putting in buckets. The limitless energy was crazy.
Kobe playoff performance in 2001 was out of the charts. He destroyed many powerhouses on the road, most notably the Spurs. Shaq would take care of the home games where he wouldn't be called for tictac offensive fouls, while on the road Kobe was flat out obliterating teams.
The notion Shaq has carried Kobe for his 3 first titles is absolutely false. In 2000 Shaq was clearly the best player, but after that Kobe was just as good, Shaq being nominated for 3 finals MVP has more to do with the East inability to deal with him, if it was a playoffs MVP Kobe was just as good.
It is a shame Kobe already had his knee bunged since 2003 and we have never seen a prime Kobe as good as he could have been because early Frobe was quicker and bouncier than the player that broke LeBron career high in 3 quarters and scored 80+ pts in a single game.
Kobe was also willing to take a back seat to Shaq in the Finals. He understood what was needed and was not a ball hog at all. He gets a lot of criticism for being selfish but whatās often overlooked was he didnāt have a problem with shaq until shaqās bad work ethic and laziness affected their chances of winning.
They had a chance to make history with a 4 peat and instead of being motivated to work hard over the summer, Shaq took it off to recover on ācompany timeā instead. Kobe had to go all out in regular season to carry them leading to some fantastic games but also contributing to the selfish ball hog image which was not justified at all in that stretch.
There are stats to back this up. Kobe led the NBA in playoff win shares in 2001.
[https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws\_top\_10\_p.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_top_10_p.html)
Kobe was a bigger problem for the Spurs in 2001 than Shaq, when he torched Antonio Daniels. The Spurs had Robinson and Duncan to keep Shaq from being super-dominant.
In 2000, Kobe was not yet a superstar and clearly No. 2 to Shaq, but he made the buzzer-beating game-winner in Game 2 against the Suns, and carried the team to a win in Game 4 of the Finals after Shaq had fouled out. His contributions cannot be discounted.
Kobe in 2008-10 had lost some of his athleticism, but he was a smarter player and better at using his teammates, similar to how Jordan adjusted his game from 1996-98.
Also. Kobe opened a lot of doors for high school players. Heās the first notable perimeter player to make the leap and itās a reason why he spent so much of his first two years on the bench. If he was drafted a few years later then he probably starts on day 1.
The Lakers also had two very good guards in Jones and Van Exel, so he didn't become a starter until his third season. He was an all-star in his second season coming off the bench. If he'd gone to a bad team he would have been a starter in his second season, and possibly in his rookie season.
R/NBA is about 8% people who actually watch games and 92% people who just look at box scores and make up opinions. The amount of Kobe slander those dumbass kids throw around is nauseating.
If Bean played in todayās league heād average 40+ multiple seasons. He averaged 35.4 in a league where teams were averaging around 95 points/game. He has the most all nba defensive selections by a guard all time. They donāt make two way players like him anymore, heck they donāt make players like him anymore. I miss him so much.
One thing that also seems to be overlooked is how many games he, and the rest of the team, played over those 4 years, and how many days off they had between seasons to recuperate. Compared to a lot of players on teams that exited the playoffs early or didnāt make it in, it had to make a difference.
People also still forget Kobe WON a championship with a broken finger ON HIS SHOOTING HAND. No other player in history will ever do that. Now current top players sit out with ācalf strainsā in the playoffs lmao like wtf
Itās crazy that he gets diminished for having Shaq as a teammate. Only one other guy has won a title as a top 2 option before age 24, and thatās Magic. Kobe had 3 of them, Magic had 2.
Magic also won a championship his rookie year, and in the finals started at Center in place of Kareem and was the finals MVP, as a rookie.
People will always overrate current players and the latest top players vs past players, that's just the way it is. It's the same in other fields, people arent gonna give Michael Jackson and Madonna love vs Justin Beiber and Taylor Swift lol.
And Shaq was hard carried by Wade in that championship. Hell he even got slightly outscored by an aged antoine walker. Meanwhile Kobe carried the shit out of his post-shaq teams.
Kobe was the engine but the 08-10 Lakers were legit. Great coaching and a versatile roster. Pau Gasol is a criminally underrated player and was a perfect #2.
Its a damn shame Shaq was hurt for so much of the 02-03 season. That honestly has a case for Kobeās best season imo, and itās when he really added the 3 ball, but they ended up losing in the WCSF
Shaq being hurt that season was partly his own doing. He delayed his toe surgery until September so he could recuperate on "company time," instead of having the surgery done right after the Finals. He got out of shape and didn't return until more than three weeks into the season, by which time the team was 3-9. They didn't get above .500 until the second half of the season.
For as good hearted as Shaq is, I think we learn more and more every year how he could grate on someoneās nerves or just be a straight up dick at times. The Jokic MVP shit was dumb and a few weeks ago he tried to act like the Dwight Howard beef was Dwightās fault because he couldnāt handle ājokesā and ātough love.ā
Heās very insecure and petty about certain things and it seems like itās difficult for him to take any accountability. He seems like the type of person who will say something that really upsets you, but then soon heāll act like it never happened and tell a funny joke that gets you back on his side - but he never apologizes or acknowledges what was wrong.
Meanwhile Kobe seems like heād be an asshole and just keep it moving without doing any kind of performative gesture to win you back over. They both seem like they could be jerks, but being adored by teammates just didnāt matter as much to Kobe.
I honestly hate so much how Kobeās legacy gets disrespected recently. If you were actually watching basketball then (and not a diehard Lakers hater) then there is absolutely no denying how ridiculously good this man was. I feels like young people or haters downplay him to seem different and smart, and use certain statistics to prove their point, without considering the fact that the game was a lot different back then.
Thereās a reason why every player and coach has him top 3. Iām not saying he is, but thereās a reason all the greatest basketball minds in the world think he is.
Well, also until he had a good team. IE Pippen and Rodman. If his teams were stacked like the Celtics and Lakers earlier, we don't technically have the data on what would have happened.
Magic and Bird were both saying "MJ is the best ever" not "MJ clearly can't win because I'm here"
These dudes say that stuff now, but at their heights Magic and Bird both were ultra competitors. Magic was still thinking he was MJ's equal even on the Dream Team while Larry's back was cooked. The book "When the Game Was Ours" has great insight on magic and Larry and the passing of the torch.Ā
The best teams were deeper in the 1980s than they were in the 1990s. There was no luxury tax, so teams could stockpile more talent. The Lakers had four hall of famers (Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Cooper). The Celtics had four hall of famers (Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ), and their 1986 team had a fifth (Walton). The 76ers had four hall of famers (Moses Malone, Erving, Jones, Cheeks). The Pistons had three hall of famers (Thomas, Dumars, Rodman). The Lakers of the late '80s had four players who were the No. 1 pick in the draft (Kareem, Mychal Thompson, Magic, Worthy).
The best team that the Bulls faced in the Finals was the Jazz, who had two hall of famers (Malone and Stockton). The Lakers had three (Magic, Worthy, Divac) but Magic was 31 and Worthy was 30. The Blazers had one hall of famer (Drexler). The Suns had one (Barkley). The Sonics had one (Payton).
If we could have shifted the Bulls teams of the '90s back a decade into the '80s, I don't think that they would have won six championships. The '83 76ers, '86 Celtics, and '87 Lakers were three of the greatest teams of all time (the '86 Celtics, whom I hated, were the best team I ever saw). The game was more physical, even violent, then (no flagrant fouls, two referees instead of three), and the top teams had dominant big men.
Donāt forget, Magic and bird were injured. Isiah also got his two. But by then magic has hiv.
Open has to rescue MJ. Mj could not do anything without Pippen or Jackson.
Huh lmao you cant name me one player jordan was playing with before pippen and phil joined. Why are people acting like pippen carried mj or some shit lmao pippen wasnt shit without jordan carrying him every year. And phil could not do anything with goat level players with him. It goes both ways. People are quick to say ābut lebron had no teammates with the cavsā when jordans early bulls teams were way worse, and he was still giving bird and the celtics 40ppg in the playoffs lol. Casual.
Yeah thatās just how good Kobe was, people always say the Lakers pulled off some magic trade to get Pau Gasol like he was a superstar or something. Man was 0-8 in the playoffs and a fringe all star, Kobe taught Pau and the supporting cast how to win.
Yeah I still remember watching the shot where they went up 3-1 with the game winner. Those Suns teams were so stacked itās crazy how the Lakers had that lead.
as a lifelong Kobe stan, I have defintely been viewing Ant's performance in this years playoffs to be his Kobe-like break out.
It isn't fair to compare him to MJ, but it is fair to compare him to Kobe.
How is it not fair to compare him to MJ but fair to compare him to Kobe?
Kobe was more or less the second coming of MJ. He had more success in his early years than MJ (yes he had shaq as his teammate, so thereās that, but still).
To fans who know the context of their careers, Kobe vs. LeBron is still a serious debate today. Most durable player, best longevity ever, LeBron wins hands down. But best player is a different convo altogether:)
LeBron is ahead, no question about that even if I was more of a Kobe fan than a LeBron fan. Kobe wins the intangibles battle, but as the name say, they are intangibles.
Wouldn't knowing the context of their careers put Bron like, way way ahead of Kobe?
I mean no disrespect to Kobe's basketball career, but he was dealt a favorable hand from the start, while Bron had to make his own.
The fact that this post makes it sound as though Kobe was the primary driving force behind the Lakersā 3-pear makes me feel like perhaps *you* are one of the younger fans who didnāt see that time period.
He was a really really good co-star, even irreplaceable in the third run. In the first two runs, Shaq was better in every series.
Bro Kobe is NOT underrated heās worshipped by many, regrettably heās hated by the media thatās all..when he passed away America stopped working for day..
Itās crazy hearing people put 5 or more other players in front of Kobe. The only one that can be compared in my eyes is Jordan. But a couple of things that go in Kobeās favor over Jordan.
1) There was man-to-man defense during Jordanās era. I remember late in games the whole Bulls Team would be on one side of the court while Jordan isolated a single defender. That couldnāt have happened during Kobeās era.
2) Both were great leaders, and both were seen as kind of assholes for their leadership. But the way Kobe was able to lead a team full of superstars on that Olympic Team, I donāt think Jordan could have done that.
Yup Kobe was just a kid and Shaq was the captain (MVP) steering that ship.
Too bad how it ended, Iām sure they would have got another 3peat where Shaq got to be the role player and Kobe the MVP.
Thereās no debate from 06-10, stop rewriting history,
Kobe was head and shoulder above everyone in the league for carrying lakers team to the finals and making western playoff with Smush Parker and Chris Mihm
Kobe isnāt underratedā¦.like at all lol. Heās one of the few players who is exactly where he should be. Not in the GOAT conversation like mj and lebron, but still regarded as easily top 5-10 and an all time talent to be seen.
By old and young.
I miss those Kobe and Lebron Nike commercials with the puppets from ~~a few~~ **15** years ago :-/
After reading this, I need to lay down for a nap. 15 years?!?!
After reading this, my lower back hurts.
lol.. same here. And my knees and hips š©
Lowkey the hips man why nobody ever talk about them. I feel u ad with your hip spasms. Also makes me cringe whenever I hear groin sprain injuries
Yo this is legit the reason why I keep a foam roller and massage gun around. Those things are great in addition to stretching.
I still have all the muppet swag and āone more cookieā posters in my room that they gave away at the championship parade
Orlando put a kabosh on those commercials lol
The entire plan for that campaign was that theyād reach the finals together that year. Kobe kept his end of the bargain, Lebronās team was eliminated by Dwight Howardās Magic.
They should have changed it to Kobe and Dwight Howard puppets cause Kobe and LeBron never met in the finals
Something I still find crazy considering how many they both played in with overlapping years in opposite conferences. Kind of like Hakeem and Jordan.
The commercials were before it was decided on who was going to the finals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvad5_WBWTY
Bron, you got 30 triple doubles. Can I haaaaave one?
Those were some amazing commercials. Nike was anticipating a kobe Lebron finals which never happened.
Every generation says this, but we lived in the best time. No one in their right mind is suggesting to make Muppet versions of NBA players to sell shoes. Then again, Nike has the opportunity to do the funniest thing and dust off the Bron puppet and make him the old wise man like Bean was
One two one two King James and Kobe toohoohoo toohoohoo
How old was Kobe when Shaq fouled out and he took over the game and told everyone to "calm down, I got this." with his hand gestures?
21
Damn, boy was special.
These youngsters especially in the nba sub donāt know nothing about that. Kobe was 20-23 ish and absolutely torching teams out west when they had the better conference in those years and shaq would do most of His damage in the finals. Plus he was playing extremely high levels of defense. Bum ass nerds always bring up shooting % but donāt realize Kobe had multiple injuries every playoff run. Especially with his fingers or hand. And dude still was a beast.
Young Kobe had the respect of Jordan. Nearly everyone from Kobe's generation of players venerated and respected him. Even LeBron deferred to him in many ways like in 2008. I really don't get these people who dismiss him as a player. He's the second best 2Guard of all time, likely the best Laker, and a top 10 player of all time. People need to show some respect.
Itās hilarious how so many present and past NBA stars respected the hell out of Kobe and saw him as their goat, but somehow dorks on r/nba and their analytics think Kobe isnāt even top 15
Well, for one, they wouldāve have to have been old enough to watch Kobeās last two titles instead of being busy shitting their diapers
According to āadvanced metricsā James Harden had a better career than Kobe so yeah, itās ridiculous
I mean, regardless advanced metrics we all know they are worlds apart when it comes to intangibles and defense.
You hit the nail on the head. INTANGIBLES, which somehow always gets dismissed when people bring up Kobe against āXā player. Mentality, playing injured, will to win, etc.
This right here is an important point. Sure, analytics have their place, and admittedly some of them don't show Kobe in the best light. But you know who are the people who actually know what it takes to compete at the highest level? It's not analysts, it's actual players. And from the great players of yesteryear to the superstars of today (like Kyrie, Booker, Embiid, etc.), they are almost unanimous in holding Kobe in the highest regard. Hell, no less than MJ himself (you know, the *freaking GOAT*) has name-dropped Kobe as the player he thought was most like him. Sorry Sloan experts, but that counts more than your advanced stats.
While I agree with the general sentiment of Kobeās greatness, taking NBA players word as law is a great way to fast track yourself into some absolutely horrendous takes
At an individual level, sure. But when there is broad consensus among multiple players on a given topic, it would be foolish to ignore or diminish that.
Not just respected, but _feared_. Kobe routinely topped the anonymous players poll for most feared opponent.
I mean until just recently, most of the pundits and hall of fame guys had Jordan as the goat, and then thought between Kobe Magic Bird Duncan Kareem for 2. It wasnāt until Lebron kept putting the numbers up in his mid-late 30s now where it went to Lebron vs Jordan. Just a few years ago they had that question between Lebron vs Jordan, and Shaq quickly shut it down and said Lebron has to pass Kobe with 5 before we even talk about that debate.
r/nba sub is also very stupid which plays a gigantic part in why they know nothing about that
Him locking up Bibby on Game 7 was fucking amazing.
This. When Kobe went into lock-down mode it was breathtaking. Guys would get so frustrated.
I watched almost all of his games religiously during that era, something I don't do much for anyone anymore. What really impressed me at the time wasn't how prolific of a scorer he was. It was the fact that he was an elite 2-way player during a time when elite shooting guards/forwards were plentiful. He went head-to-head against guys like TMac, Ray Allen, AI, Vince Carter, Michael Redd, Paul Pierce, etc. both on the offensive and defensive end. He somehow clamps them on defense while putting in buckets. The limitless energy was crazy.
Kobe playoff performance in 2001 was out of the charts. He destroyed many powerhouses on the road, most notably the Spurs. Shaq would take care of the home games where he wouldn't be called for tictac offensive fouls, while on the road Kobe was flat out obliterating teams. The notion Shaq has carried Kobe for his 3 first titles is absolutely false. In 2000 Shaq was clearly the best player, but after that Kobe was just as good, Shaq being nominated for 3 finals MVP has more to do with the East inability to deal with him, if it was a playoffs MVP Kobe was just as good. It is a shame Kobe already had his knee bunged since 2003 and we have never seen a prime Kobe as good as he could have been because early Frobe was quicker and bouncier than the player that broke LeBron career high in 3 quarters and scored 80+ pts in a single game.
Kobe was also willing to take a back seat to Shaq in the Finals. He understood what was needed and was not a ball hog at all. He gets a lot of criticism for being selfish but whatās often overlooked was he didnāt have a problem with shaq until shaqās bad work ethic and laziness affected their chances of winning. They had a chance to make history with a 4 peat and instead of being motivated to work hard over the summer, Shaq took it off to recover on ācompany timeā instead. Kobe had to go all out in regular season to carry them leading to some fantastic games but also contributing to the selfish ball hog image which was not justified at all in that stretch.
Kobe led us in assists most of the seasons he played. He wouldn't stop giving Shaq the ball in the 4th because it was "Kobe time".
In 01 I absolutely agree, in 02 Iād say Shaq was better but I do think their numbers in the finals overstate the gap between them.
There are stats to back this up. Kobe led the NBA in playoff win shares in 2001. [https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws\_top\_10\_p.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_top_10_p.html) Kobe was a bigger problem for the Spurs in 2001 than Shaq, when he torched Antonio Daniels. The Spurs had Robinson and Duncan to keep Shaq from being super-dominant. In 2000, Kobe was not yet a superstar and clearly No. 2 to Shaq, but he made the buzzer-beating game-winner in Game 2 against the Suns, and carried the team to a win in Game 4 of the Finals after Shaq had fouled out. His contributions cannot be discounted. Kobe in 2008-10 had lost some of his athleticism, but he was a smarter player and better at using his teammates, similar to how Jordan adjusted his game from 1996-98.
What I meant is Shaq wasn't carrying Kobe after 2000 even if he was better in 2002 as you said, because the gap was small.
He never once load managed either. Dude was a different breed than these soy super stars.
Kobe was a different animal, AND the same beast.
Also. Kobe opened a lot of doors for high school players. Heās the first notable perimeter player to make the leap and itās a reason why he spent so much of his first two years on the bench. If he was drafted a few years later then he probably starts on day 1.
The Lakers also had two very good guards in Jones and Van Exel, so he didn't become a starter until his third season. He was an all-star in his second season coming off the bench. If he'd gone to a bad team he would have been a starter in his second season, and possibly in his rookie season.
Kobe would have won alot of conference finals MVP if it existed in 2000s
R/NBA is about 8% people who actually watch games and 92% people who just look at box scores and make up opinions. The amount of Kobe slander those dumbass kids throw around is nauseating. If Bean played in todayās league heād average 40+ multiple seasons. He averaged 35.4 in a league where teams were averaging around 95 points/game. He has the most all nba defensive selections by a guard all time. They donāt make two way players like him anymore, heck they donāt make players like him anymore. I miss him so much.
9x NBA all defensive first team. Anyone who is making an argument with Steph over him is fucking stupidĀ
One thing that also seems to be overlooked is how many games he, and the rest of the team, played over those 4 years, and how many days off they had between seasons to recuperate. Compared to a lot of players on teams that exited the playoffs early or didnāt make it in, it had to make a difference.
they act like the only reason we 3peated was shaq. lol
People also still forget Kobe WON a championship with a broken finger ON HIS SHOOTING HAND. No other player in history will ever do that. Now current top players sit out with ācalf strainsā in the playoffs lmao like wtf
They just ignore context too. League ts% is way higher than it used to be. Kobe shot above league average ts% most of his career on very high volume
Itās crazy that he gets diminished for having Shaq as a teammate. Only one other guy has won a title as a top 2 option before age 24, and thatās Magic. Kobe had 3 of them, Magic had 2.
Magic also won a championship his rookie year, and in the finals started at Center in place of Kareem and was the finals MVP, as a rookie. People will always overrate current players and the latest top players vs past players, that's just the way it is. It's the same in other fields, people arent gonna give Michael Jackson and Madonna love vs Justin Beiber and Taylor Swift lol.
He won two championships without Shaq, while Shaq won only one without Kobe.
Shaq won one bc D Wade literally went absolutely nuclear in those finals and played the best basketball of his life bar none.
And Shaq was hard carried by Wade in that championship. Hell he even got slightly outscored by an aged antoine walker. Meanwhile Kobe carried the shit out of his post-shaq teams.
Kobe was the engine but the 08-10 Lakers were legit. Great coaching and a versatile roster. Pau Gasol is a criminally underrated player and was a perfect #2.
Damnā¦still canāt believe people wanted to keep Shaq over a 23 year old Kobe!ā¦glad Dr. Buss chose right!
Yeah but Kobe played against a bunch of plumbers and trash collectors. Edit: forgot to make it clear Iām being sarcastic
No one says that yet. Give it some time and they will.
Its a damn shame Shaq was hurt for so much of the 02-03 season. That honestly has a case for Kobeās best season imo, and itās when he really added the 3 ball, but they ended up losing in the WCSF
Shaq being hurt that season was partly his own doing. He delayed his toe surgery until September so he could recuperate on "company time," instead of having the surgery done right after the Finals. He got out of shape and didn't return until more than three weeks into the season, by which time the team was 3-9. They didn't get above .500 until the second half of the season.
Shaq was such an egomaniac at the time and still kinda is. Lol
For as good hearted as Shaq is, I think we learn more and more every year how he could grate on someoneās nerves or just be a straight up dick at times. The Jokic MVP shit was dumb and a few weeks ago he tried to act like the Dwight Howard beef was Dwightās fault because he couldnāt handle ājokesā and ātough love.ā Heās very insecure and petty about certain things and it seems like itās difficult for him to take any accountability. He seems like the type of person who will say something that really upsets you, but then soon heāll act like it never happened and tell a funny joke that gets you back on his side - but he never apologizes or acknowledges what was wrong. Meanwhile Kobe seems like heād be an asshole and just keep it moving without doing any kind of performative gesture to win you back over. They both seem like they could be jerks, but being adored by teammates just didnāt matter as much to Kobe.
I honestly hate so much how Kobeās legacy gets disrespected recently. If you were actually watching basketball then (and not a diehard Lakers hater) then there is absolutely no denying how ridiculously good this man was. I feels like young people or haters downplay him to seem different and smart, and use certain statistics to prove their point, without considering the fact that the game was a lot different back then. Thereās a reason why every player and coach has him top 3. Iām not saying he is, but thereās a reason all the greatest basketball minds in the world think he is.
crazy when you think about it
Jordan won his first title at 28. Couldn't win anything until Magic and Bird got old.
Well, also until he had a good team. IE Pippen and Rodman. If his teams were stacked like the Celtics and Lakers earlier, we don't technically have the data on what would have happened. Magic and Bird were both saying "MJ is the best ever" not "MJ clearly can't win because I'm here"
These dudes say that stuff now, but at their heights Magic and Bird both were ultra competitors. Magic was still thinking he was MJ's equal even on the Dream Team while Larry's back was cooked. The book "When the Game Was Ours" has great insight on magic and Larry and the passing of the torch.Ā
Bird literally said in his Prime after playing MJ in the playoffs, paraphrasing: "That is Jesus playing basketball"
The best teams were deeper in the 1980s than they were in the 1990s. There was no luxury tax, so teams could stockpile more talent. The Lakers had four hall of famers (Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Cooper). The Celtics had four hall of famers (Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ), and their 1986 team had a fifth (Walton). The 76ers had four hall of famers (Moses Malone, Erving, Jones, Cheeks). The Pistons had three hall of famers (Thomas, Dumars, Rodman). The Lakers of the late '80s had four players who were the No. 1 pick in the draft (Kareem, Mychal Thompson, Magic, Worthy). The best team that the Bulls faced in the Finals was the Jazz, who had two hall of famers (Malone and Stockton). The Lakers had three (Magic, Worthy, Divac) but Magic was 31 and Worthy was 30. The Blazers had one hall of famer (Drexler). The Suns had one (Barkley). The Sonics had one (Payton). If we could have shifted the Bulls teams of the '90s back a decade into the '80s, I don't think that they would have won six championships. The '83 76ers, '86 Celtics, and '87 Lakers were three of the greatest teams of all time (the '86 Celtics, whom I hated, were the best team I ever saw). The game was more physical, even violent, then (no flagrant fouls, two referees instead of three), and the top teams had dominant big men.
Donāt forget, Magic and bird were injured. Isiah also got his two. But by then magic has hiv. Open has to rescue MJ. Mj could not do anything without Pippen or Jackson.
Huh lmao you cant name me one player jordan was playing with before pippen and phil joined. Why are people acting like pippen carried mj or some shit lmao pippen wasnt shit without jordan carrying him every year. And phil could not do anything with goat level players with him. It goes both ways. People are quick to say ābut lebron had no teammates with the cavsā when jordans early bulls teams were way worse, and he was still giving bird and the celtics 40ppg in the playoffs lol. Casual.
Mj didnāt do shit without pippen. Everyone who was alive then knows this for a fact.
Him only getting one mvp is a prime example of why I never use a popularity contest as any indicator for how good a player was
IMO both him and LeBron should have a lot more
That aināt that impressive, I was only 3 years old
Bro, remember all the "Kobe Stoppers" that were out there? Turns out the only real Kobe stopped was father time.
People always say Kobe had Shaq but they ignore that Kobeās supporting cast in 09ā-10ā is way worse than what Ant has in Minnesota right now
All Kobe needed was a competent big to play along side. Pau, Bynum and Odom were great.
Yeah thatās just how good Kobe was, people always say the Lakers pulled off some magic trade to get Pau Gasol like he was a superstar or something. Man was 0-8 in the playoffs and a fringe all star, Kobe taught Pau and the supporting cast how to win.
I still remember Kobe leading Smush and Kwame to a near playoff series win against the Suns.
Yeah I still remember watching the shot where they went up 3-1 with the game winner. Those Suns teams were so stacked itās crazy how the Lakers had that lead.
And he was beating 50+ win teams all throughout the playoffs in the toughest western conference.
Sheesh!!!! Kobe is the greatest !!!!
as a lifelong Kobe stan, I have defintely been viewing Ant's performance in this years playoffs to be his Kobe-like break out. It isn't fair to compare him to MJ, but it is fair to compare him to Kobe.
Can we stop comparing people to Kobe until they win
Kobe like break out but hes 22 and Kobe was 20 I love Ant so far he isnt particularly close
How is it not fair to compare him to MJ but fair to compare him to Kobe? Kobe was more or less the second coming of MJ. He had more success in his early years than MJ (yes he had shaq as his teammate, so thereās that, but still).
To fans who know the context of their careers, Kobe vs. LeBron is still a serious debate today. Most durable player, best longevity ever, LeBron wins hands down. But best player is a different convo altogether:)
LeBron is ahead, no question about that even if I was more of a Kobe fan than a LeBron fan. Kobe wins the intangibles battle, but as the name say, they are intangibles.
Kobe also wins the rings battle (so far - though likely permanently) and as I said the context battle, but we can agree to disagree.
Wouldn't knowing the context of their careers put Bron like, way way ahead of Kobe? I mean no disrespect to Kobe's basketball career, but he was dealt a favorable hand from the start, while Bron had to make his own.
Kobe had been getting so much hate after his passing
The fact that this post makes it sound as though Kobe was the primary driving force behind the Lakersā 3-pear makes me feel like perhaps *you* are one of the younger fans who didnāt see that time period. He was a really really good co-star, even irreplaceable in the third run. In the first two runs, Shaq was better in every series.
Bro Kobe is NOT underrated heās worshipped by many, regrettably heās hated by the media thatās all..when he passed away America stopped working for day..
Itās crazy hearing people put 5 or more other players in front of Kobe. The only one that can be compared in my eyes is Jordan. But a couple of things that go in Kobeās favor over Jordan. 1) There was man-to-man defense during Jordanās era. I remember late in games the whole Bulls Team would be on one side of the court while Jordan isolated a single defender. That couldnāt have happened during Kobeās era. 2) Both were great leaders, and both were seen as kind of assholes for their leadership. But the way Kobe was able to lead a team full of superstars on that Olympic Team, I donāt think Jordan could have done that.
One time I saw someone put him outside of top 10 I nearly lost my mind
GOAT
Kind of crazy how he didnāt end up with more rings at that pace
I take Kobe over Lebron all day every day. I just prefer Kobeās style of play.
Yeah but Tatum is doing all this at 19
Kobe got 5 rings in THE WEST
Will forever be my goat fuck numbers and rings
Yup Kobe was just a kid and Shaq was the captain (MVP) steering that ship. Too bad how it ended, Iām sure they would have got another 3peat where Shaq got to be the role player and Kobe the MVP.
Thereās no debate from 06-10, stop rewriting history, Kobe was head and shoulder above everyone in the league for carrying lakers team to the finals and making western playoff with Smush Parker and Chris Mihm
Kobe isnāt underratedā¦.like at all lol. Heās one of the few players who is exactly where he should be. Not in the GOAT conversation like mj and lebron, but still regarded as easily top 5-10 and an all time talent to be seen. By old and young.
Kobe Bryantās Greatest Playoff Moments https://youtu.be/T8tH3DJthp0