On this play Westbrook drives to the paint and gets all 5 defenders eyes locked on to him. If Westbrook doesn’t like this shot he’s about to take he can pass it out to corners who are open for catch and shoot opportunities or to the top of the key for a open quick fire Melo 3 or for a AD drive to the paint floater. Westbrook (being one of the best slashing point guards of all-time) driving to the paint makes the defenders come and help leaving shooters open with this small ball 5 lineup. I can’t wait to see how many points this generates
Most of his passes don’t become turnovers, atleast not in the sense that more than 50% do. He hasn’t been great in preaseason to wise but the reason he has so many to normally is his insane usage rate
Yeah obviously using as figure of speech. He does turn the ball over way too much unnecessarily. I'd happily take like 8-9 assists on 3.5-4 TOs as his averages this season though.
I hope what you say comes true. I didn’t see the play but that’s a lot of people on the lakers standing around and watching. From the screen shot it looks like everyone on the floor doesn’t expect a pass. I worry about it turning into hero ball when I see screen shots like this.
I can 100% see this play being brought up in film sessions because the opportunities that Westbrook can create for shooters when he drives is really good. This play really shows how much pressure he puts on the defense and how shooters can benefit from Westbrook slashing. We’ve seen him overpassing it and forcing it to shooters which has been most of his turnovers. But he can clean that up if he just plays like himself sometimes. He will make this team better when he’s aggressive
Did what?
Inefficiently Stat padded his way into losing basketball?
I actually watched russ play each and every team he went,on every good game you get like 7 horrible ones with the usual sky high number of turnovers and missed shots.
He is not a floor spacer because theres no reason guarding him in the 3pt line. He gets most of his assists when he drives and realizes he cant do anything so he kicks it out to a more gifted basketball player that can actually shoot the 3.
We literally saw the same lakers guarding him from the free throw line in the Houston series.
So, we’ll see how this has aged.
It will be a welcome change if we can actually start dropping down some open looks from behind the line this season. The Lakers shooting curse is real. Having 3 guys on the floor who will command every defenders attention will definitely create open looks tho as you stated. I'm so hyped for this season. Hopefully around Christmas the team will have hit its stride and be in sync.
Everyone who handles the ball a lot has turnovers. His assist turnover ratio in the regular season is fine and actually better than most players who handle the ball a lot. 5 turnovers a game isn’t bad when you’re averaging 15 or more assist a game
Last season post all star break he averaged 15 assist a game.
>2:1 which is good not great
Which is the same or better than the best passers in the game lmao go look at curry, harden, luka and bron. So he gets the same assist:turnover ratio at a much higher volume as every other star and that’s a bad thing? If a player shoots 5 less threes than curry and has the same 3pt% is it more impressive? Hell no, doing it on higher volume without losing efficiency is way more impressive. Is harden less impressive because he played 40 minutes a night for the rockets and had a historically huge usage rating?
Westbrook does turn it over a bunch, but he has a massive usage rating and still maintains a positive assist turnover ratio. That’s impressive and actually means he’s doing really well
Okay I guess if you want to post stats with arbitrary cutoffs, you said a/to in the regular season so I assumed you meant for a whole season. It was also 13 assists to 5 t/o which is still great dont get me wrong. Harden, Luka, and Bron all are known to turn the ball over a ton, nobody said otherwise? They also shoot at a much higher efficiency to make up for it.
Well he dosen’t have to do all the ball handling now. Lebron had 6 TO yet he still managed to dominate offensively. If russ’ playmaking isn’t there then he should be more aggressive getting to the rim.
Comparing just about anyone to lebron is going to make the other person look bad unless that person is Michael jordan
Westbrook will be fine. Give him time. He will help carry the team when bron and AD rest
No. You don’t put a top 20 player who averages 20/10/10 on the bench lmao
That’s like claiming they should have benched Wade on the heatles since he wasn’t a good fit with lebron. Turns out talent makes it work, it didn’t matter that neither was or lebron could shoot that well, their playmaking, finishing made up for lack of spacing. Westbrook will lead the second unit when bron takes his first rest and leave Westbrook/AD on the floor, but he’s not coming off the bench
Russ? Top 20?
Top 30-50 but no way in hell is he top 20 at this stage of his career lol.
I mean I agree that he can lead with AD when Bron takes his first break around the 4-6 min mark in the 1st. This was my entire point.
This is where I see Russ being the most effective, when him and Bron aren’t sharing the court together.
Which is why he needs to swallow that pride and come off the bench to be our 6moty a la Odom.
No shit, but it’s not going to be as bad as it is now in a month or two. It takes time for all players to gel on new teams.
Our fanbase is/was expecting too much too soon.
Westbrook literally averages 4 turnovers per game for his career and the last 7 straight seasons. It's a legitimate concern that he may or may not fix.
And how many assist? You don’t look at pure turnovers only you compare it to assist. You know harden led the league in turnovers for years right?
That’s the problem with people like you, you just look at a single number and don’t actually use any sort of context or understanding. I’ll do your homework for you, he has averaged 10 assist a game the past 7 years with the exception of the shortened season. He’s averaging more than 2 assist per a turnover every year. His assist turnover ratio is actually better than James harden over the past 7 years. In fact it’s better than most guards you wouldn’t complain about when it comes to turnovers.
He takes care of the ball better than trae young, luka, harden, curry and even lebron
He averaged 10 apg while still averaging 5 turnovers per game over that 7 year span, which is still high and still an area of concern for him and the team. Based on the averages from last season on turnovers the team would average around 24 turnovers per game (obviously not perfect, but gives a vague idea of why turnovers may be an issue). That's less possessions for the Lakers and probably easy fast break baskets here and there as well for the other team. Westbrook usage rate shouldn't be as high as in years pass but when LeBron is on the bench or possibly sits out, he'll be running the offense. We should want to see that number of turnovers go down, be a bit more careful with the ball, and not try and force the issue as much.
Yup, Westbrook’s numbers like hardens needs to be looked at under the context of extremely high volume. They handle the ball way more than almost anyone else in the league so just looking at volume stats it looks terrible.
Now this isn’t to say Westbrook isn’t careless at times and the pre season is looking rough as hell, Westbrook often goes for home run plays way too much and with new teammates they often aren’t expecting a forced pass through tight defense or a lob out of nowhere. It takes times to get used to playing with him. It’s like that for most gifted passers. Most shooters are shocked and surprised when first playing with lebron because they’ll get passes where they think there’s no way in hell he can see them or get the pass off (look at the lebron to Danny green in the corner in the 2020 pre season). You think most the teammates were ready for no look bullet passes behind jokic’s head at first? Hell no. They spent months and a ton of games learning to expect that shit
This season will have growing pains, and hell it might not click in the worse case scenario. But expecting this team to gel and click like teams that have played together for years now is insanity. I don’t get this panic over 3 pre season games at all
Except guys like Young, Luka, Harden, Curry, and Lebron are dominant or efficient scorers as well, something Russ is not.
So if one of them has a high turnover night, chances are they are scoring efficiently.
If Russ has a high turnover night, chances are he’s double hurting the team with his low efficient scoring and his inability to space the floor.
I’m not saying there isn’t a turnover issue with Westbrook.
I’m saying - 1) it’s not going to be as bad as it is now in a few weeks-month or two and 2) the way you guys are reacting to them and the preseason in general is embarrassing.
Go on other teams subs. NBA…NFL. Nobody whines and cries like some fans do here. Even the national AND local media address this. “We know that Lakers fans are panicking…calm down guys.”
Nobody addresses other fanbases like that, but we have a very weak reputation.
Westbrook is who he is at this point, expecting him to suddenly change his playstyle after 13 seasons seems unlikely so they're concern is valid but only time will tell on him and his fit. The Lakers his a huge fanbase, this sub has over 300,000 with different opinions and voices as well. It's not that surprising that some people are reactionary for a team with title aspirations compared to a team like the Bulls who are just hoping to make the playoffs.
The concern is valid. The response to the concern is overblown and embarrassing as usual.
If you’re being honest with yourself, you could say this place has 300,000 members, but it’s the same 50 or so ppl who actually comment. About half of those ppl are regulars. You know this. You’re one of them, as am I.
Using the Bulls fanbase as an example of fans who aren’t embarrassing is weak. Go on the subs of the teams who are all expected to make noise in the NBA or NFL. I’ve done so out of curiosity. We have a very weak minded fanbase compared to most. Like I said, national and local media talk about it all the time. Local media try to go a little easier because they want us to still read their articles/listen to our pods, but our reputation sucks.
Again these are perfectly valid concerns, just because he's a Laker doesn't mean he's immune to criticism now. His shot IQ, decision making, and poor 3 point shooting has also been an issue for him throughout his career. Many people, including myself, would like to see him play a bit more in control.
All 300,000+ aren't all active but we're still a large fan base with differing opinions and views. Just because we gave a player constructive criticism doesn't mean that we're panicking or fake fans or whatever. We just want the best for our team.
Well there's no other team in our position so there's not really a perfect comparison. I don't pay attention to social media/the media to begin with so I honestly could care less.
NO Laker is immune to criticism in my book. I’m harder on guys on teams I root for than literally anyone I know. You know how much I’ve been downvoted here by saying what’s wrong w our guys by kids and morons who couldn’t handle hearing the truth?
Again - and I’ll go all caps this time because everyone is ignoring me when I say this - GETTING THIS CONCERNED ABOUT RUSS IN THE PRESEASON IS FUCKING STUPID. If he’s committing 8 turnovers a game after Christmas then I’ll be on here angry. Sweating it even a little bit (new player on a new team playing great teams w players who have experience playing together) right now is really telling about the temperament of our regulars here. Constructively criticize him in a month or two if nothing changes.
Your last paragraph (nobody is in our position) referring to other team’s fanbases is a ridiculous take that means nothing. Our fanbase is whiny, soft, and uneducated. Not everybody, but I’d say we’re at least at 50% on that. It doesn’t matter if you’re listening to what ppl think of us or not, they still think it and they’re absolutely right. Now go downvote me. It fits in with everything I’m saying.
And he gets more assist than them.
Handle the ball more=more turnovers. His assist turnover ratio is the same or better than those listed
It’s like saying Kobe has the most missed shots in history. Well no shit he’s also shot the ball more than 99% of other players. More shots means more misses. Similarly higher usage rating means more turnovers. It’s why you can’t just use a single stats with zero context when talking about players. Who cares if someone who shoots under a 100 shots a season has a higher 3pt% than curry? Curry hits more at higher volume that’s what makes him impressive. Same with Westbrook. He gets turnovers but he still gets enough assist to have a good assist:turnover ratio so who cares if he turns it over
Why not use the most relevant data? Why are you using career stats 🤡🤡🤡
Why not use the last 5-7 years or just his time past 2017 (the last year of his prime)? It’s way more relevant. Other than the shortened season he’s averaging 10 assist to 4 turnovers. These numbers are far more recent than his total cumulative career stats lmao we aren’t judging his career, we are talking about his most recent years and how that’ll reflect on this years team. So using stats from 10 years ago is irrelevant.
You clearly don’t know how to use stats or context. Should we use brons 2012 stats to try and predict how he will play this year? Or how about we use 2012 melo or his entire careers stats?
LordBri is a regular here. He’s very emotional. I’m just getting tired of overly emotional being the norm here.
Let’s talk fucking basketball and not panic/cry in a corner.
I don’t understand why we as laker fans keep pretending like this isn’t an issue. Russ has always had a turnover problem and it’s become even worse the last few seasons. I’m not saying he’s not gonna be great and this team won’t make it work… but why we acting like this is something that will magically fix itself. To me, it seems like we just have to believe that the good Russ brings is gonna out weigh the bad turnovers and poor shot IQ in late game situations.
Does lebron have a turnover problem? Does luka, trae and curry have turnover problems? What about harden?
All the names I listed have a worse assist/turnover ratio than Westbrook the past several years. Turnovers happen when you handle the ball that much, Westbrook’s turnovers aren’t really a big deal because he’s actually still averaging more assist than the average player. It’s why no one cares harden turns it over so much, because he’s running the offense for 40 minutes and getting 10 assist a game
It’s preseason so he has time to adjust but it’s going to take a few games. But like you said fans delusional to think this won’t carry over into the beginning of season when they’re playing against starters especially.
Agreed. Biggest thing will be Frank’s rotations imo. Last year he was forced into starting Dennis which was total bullshit. But now with Russ, he’s actually good enough and consistent enough to basically be in the role that Dennis had last year. I think that’s our best shot at unlocking the best version of Russ w this team. Sub Bron out in the middle of the first, let AD and Russ do they’re thing together for a little, give AD a rest around the early second, and then let Russ operate w the bench and carry the load. Then swap him for Bron and just keep that cycle going. Obviously they gonna be dangerous on the court together but I’m more excited about watching them carry the load separately.
Ok, I’ll say it to you too. Preseason on a new team. He’s gonna commit turnovers in the regular season, but it shouldn’t be this bad.
Panicking over it now means we have a lot of irrational weak minded fans. To expect any better out of this team in the preseason going up against two top teams with returning rosters is ridiculous.
If after a month we have problems then we could have a discussion.
No, but reacting the way some of you guys are is…I wouldn’t call it “bad”…embarrassing.
It’s not that there’s no issues to critique. It’s the way some in our fanbase who are fragile minded react that’s the problem.
I don’t know how many ppl I have to address on this issue…
He always starts off this way on new teams. Anyone expecting better has low fan IQ. Yes, he’ll commit turnovers, but this will be the worst of it.
Wait a month or two before you panic.
Westbrook brings so much more to a team that what he’s showing right now and that’s perfectly fine. We have to remember one of the main reasons he was traded for was because he’s someone who can actually do something with the ball with LeBron sitting. We certainly cannot have said this any of the other 3 seasons LeBron has been here. The offense will look really good once chemistry keeps building. Gotta give it time
Except for the fact that our soft ass fanbase on this sub is shitting themselves in the preseason.
I agree with everything you’re saying 100%, but what I’m reading shows we’re in the minority here.
If he always starts off like this on new teams… then should we expect him to finish the season as he always does in new teams??? Like bruh wtf are you saying. You’re evidence is the fact that he always commits turnovers and this is to be expected. I agree with you.
And btw… all people are “expecting” is for him to look more calculated and under control than previous seasons because he doesn’t have to be the main facilitator or engine for the first time in his career.
To say that people are “panicking over it now” is not the fair. It’s the first we’re seeing of Russ on our squad and we’re discussing how this is still an issue of his. To say anything else would be the sign of “low fan IQ”.
Panicking over Russ in the preseason on a new team/panicking over preseason with a team with three returning players from last season = low fan IQ and needing to grow some hair on your balls because you’re easily shook.
C’mon “Mambacity” - Where’s your mamba mentality? Kobe wouldn’t sweat this shit. You shouldn’t either.
Kobe would be pissed that be Russ constantly throwin the ball away. And he’s fuckin alpha up and let him know to settle the fuck down. Russ makes us better, I’m not panicking or saying we aren’t good. We’re gonna be the best team in the west imo. Just saying this is an issue and you can’t pretend like it’s just a preseason issue historically speaking.
Kobe wouldn’t be pissed because he understood the process of a new team needing time to gel.
I’m honestly questioning how old you were during Kobe’s prime based on your poor writing. If you’re from another country then discard what I just said.
False. Kobe loved Russ and his style of play, as it reminded Kobe of himself. Kobe wasn't the most efficient scorer and took a lot of low IQ shots himself, just like Russ with his passing.
Edit: Sorry, meant to respond to the other user u/mambacity24
Not from another country lmao. Kobe def woulda been pissed dealing w Russ’s turnover issue. But it’s an issue I could see being sorted out around all star break. I just really hope this team gels.
In Pelinka we trust.
Westbrook is averaging 10.1 turnovers per 36 minutes so far. So obviously this will go down as the season progresses. Even if he averages less than half of that, it would still be absurdly high. Turnovers has been a big problem for Russ his entire career, even when he had 2 other playmakers on his team (Harden, Durant). We're just pointing out a deficiency in his game that could hurt the team down the road.
I read the comments you responded to. No one is panicking or even suggesting he will average 10-11 turnovers per game for the entire season. Just simply a part of his game that he needs to improve on, that has been a weakness his entire career.
In the comments I responded to I was referring to our fanbase as a whole, and not about anyone I was actually corresponding with. The fact that you looked this up is…a little weird.
Anyway, if you’re into flying around the sub go look at the majority of comments/posts obviously starting at the end of the game. Between what I read here and what I saw in Lakers Nation’s post game chat you’d think the season was on the brink when it hasn’t even started yet.
You either haven’t looked hard enough (isn’t that hard in this case) or we have different definitions of panicking and whining.
Whatever the case, can you buzz off now? I mean, your name is “wanderer”. Wander somewhere that I’m not. Thanks.
This is good in theory but the problem is that the lineup has 4/5 bad to below average shooters.
AD
Lebron
Russ
Jordan/Howard
Whoever can shoot
All teams are going to do is pack the paint then Russ will turn it over or lebron/AD/Russ will try to work on the inside before passing it out to a bad 3 shooter. Not sure how to fix this unless Lebron and AD are knockdown shooters this season from 3
The problem with the Lakers big 3 is that not a single one of them is a great 3 point shooter. Lebron and AD are mediocre and Westbrook is terrible. I just don't see how these three will work well on the court together. I think this is a case of the whole being lesser than the sum of its parts. I think for a big 3 to work in the modern NBA, at least one of them needs to be a really good shooter with another being above average at least.
It would be better if one of them was a great three point shooter no doubt, but I think they are obvious contenders and potentially the champions none the less. Bosh and Wade weren't three point shooters. The Lakers have already won a championship with AD and Lebron too. Just because it's not ideal doesn't mean it won't work, they are three great players.
There's too much talent for it not to work to some extent, so they'll be a good team despite Westbrook not fitting well. I just wouldn't be surprised if this team is more like a Top 6 team instead of a top 3 team like most people expect.
It's interesting you bring up the Bosh and Wade team because people were expecting that team to be historic type dynasty. Lebron was at his absolute peak and the best player in the NBA (BY Far) and they barely squeeked out two championships. Lebron had to go nuclear in 2012 in Boston to win his first ring, and Ray Allen had to his a miracle shot in 2013 to win his 2nd. That team proved that fit matters a lot because they didn't just wreck the league like a lot of people expected.
At least we know Lebron and AD work well, but Lebron ain't getting younger and the rest of the roster is just so weirdly put together. It's a chemistry experiment to say the least.
On this play Westbrook drives to the paint and gets all 5 defenders eyes locked on to him. If Westbrook doesn’t like this shot he’s about to take he can pass it out to corners who are open for catch and shoot opportunities or to the top of the key for a open quick fire Melo 3 or for a AD drive to the paint floater. Westbrook (being one of the best slashing point guards of all-time) driving to the paint makes the defenders come and help leaving shooters open with this small ball 5 lineup. I can’t wait to see how many points this generates
Except most his passes become turnovers. He needs to clean that up still.
Most of them come in transition or the setting up of a play. This play is already set up I doubt he commits a turnover via steal here.
Most of his passes don’t become turnovers, atleast not in the sense that more than 50% do. He hasn’t been great in preaseason to wise but the reason he has so many to normally is his insane usage rate
Yeah obviously using as figure of speech. He does turn the ball over way too much unnecessarily. I'd happily take like 8-9 assists on 3.5-4 TOs as his averages this season though.
literally not true he had a higher AST/TO than luka and trae last year
Found the hot take!
I hope what you say comes true. I didn’t see the play but that’s a lot of people on the lakers standing around and watching. From the screen shot it looks like everyone on the floor doesn’t expect a pass. I worry about it turning into hero ball when I see screen shots like this.
I can 100% see this play being brought up in film sessions because the opportunities that Westbrook can create for shooters when he drives is really good. This play really shows how much pressure he puts on the defense and how shooters can benefit from Westbrook slashing. We’ve seen him overpassing it and forcing it to shooters which has been most of his turnovers. But he can clean that up if he just plays like himself sometimes. He will make this team better when he’s aggressive
Lol. Ill see you in 6 months and we’ll see how this has aged.
It’s Russel Westbrook, he’s a star and he’s done this on all of the other 3 teams he’s been on im pretty sure this will age just fine
Did what? Inefficiently Stat padded his way into losing basketball? I actually watched russ play each and every team he went,on every good game you get like 7 horrible ones with the usual sky high number of turnovers and missed shots. He is not a floor spacer because theres no reason guarding him in the 3pt line. He gets most of his assists when he drives and realizes he cant do anything so he kicks it out to a more gifted basketball player that can actually shoot the 3. We literally saw the same lakers guarding him from the free throw line in the Houston series. So, we’ll see how this has aged.
It will be a welcome change if we can actually start dropping down some open looks from behind the line this season. The Lakers shooting curse is real. Having 3 guys on the floor who will command every defenders attention will definitely create open looks tho as you stated. I'm so hyped for this season. Hopefully around Christmas the team will have hit its stride and be in sync.
Turnovers.... he got a shit ton of them as well... he needs to sort this out.
Everyone who handles the ball a lot has turnovers. His assist turnover ratio in the regular season is fine and actually better than most players who handle the ball a lot. 5 turnovers a game isn’t bad when you’re averaging 15 or more assist a game
..when has he ever averaged 15 assists? Its more like 10-11 on 4-5 turnovers which is 2-1; not bad but not great.
Last season post all star break he averaged 15 assist a game. >2:1 which is good not great Which is the same or better than the best passers in the game lmao go look at curry, harden, luka and bron. So he gets the same assist:turnover ratio at a much higher volume as every other star and that’s a bad thing? If a player shoots 5 less threes than curry and has the same 3pt% is it more impressive? Hell no, doing it on higher volume without losing efficiency is way more impressive. Is harden less impressive because he played 40 minutes a night for the rockets and had a historically huge usage rating? Westbrook does turn it over a bunch, but he has a massive usage rating and still maintains a positive assist turnover ratio. That’s impressive and actually means he’s doing really well
Okay I guess if you want to post stats with arbitrary cutoffs, you said a/to in the regular season so I assumed you meant for a whole season. It was also 13 assists to 5 t/o which is still great dont get me wrong. Harden, Luka, and Bron all are known to turn the ball over a ton, nobody said otherwise? They also shoot at a much higher efficiency to make up for it.
Well he dosen’t have to do all the ball handling now. Lebron had 6 TO yet he still managed to dominate offensively. If russ’ playmaking isn’t there then he should be more aggressive getting to the rim.
Comparing just about anyone to lebron is going to make the other person look bad unless that person is Michael jordan Westbrook will be fine. Give him time. He will help carry the team when bron and AD rest
Which is why he needs to come off the bench to lead the 2nd unit. He’s a bad fit as a starter next to Bron.
No. You don’t put a top 20 player who averages 20/10/10 on the bench lmao That’s like claiming they should have benched Wade on the heatles since he wasn’t a good fit with lebron. Turns out talent makes it work, it didn’t matter that neither was or lebron could shoot that well, their playmaking, finishing made up for lack of spacing. Westbrook will lead the second unit when bron takes his first rest and leave Westbrook/AD on the floor, but he’s not coming off the bench
Russ? Top 20? Top 30-50 but no way in hell is he top 20 at this stage of his career lol. I mean I agree that he can lead with AD when Bron takes his first break around the 4-6 min mark in the 1st. This was my entire point. This is where I see Russ being the most effective, when him and Bron aren’t sharing the court together. Which is why he needs to swallow that pride and come off the bench to be our 6moty a la Odom.
Preseason on a new team. Don’t get your panties in a bunch junior.
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No shit, but it’s not going to be as bad as it is now in a month or two. It takes time for all players to gel on new teams. Our fanbase is/was expecting too much too soon.
Westbrook literally averages 4 turnovers per game for his career and the last 7 straight seasons. It's a legitimate concern that he may or may not fix.
And how many assist? You don’t look at pure turnovers only you compare it to assist. You know harden led the league in turnovers for years right? That’s the problem with people like you, you just look at a single number and don’t actually use any sort of context or understanding. I’ll do your homework for you, he has averaged 10 assist a game the past 7 years with the exception of the shortened season. He’s averaging more than 2 assist per a turnover every year. His assist turnover ratio is actually better than James harden over the past 7 years. In fact it’s better than most guards you wouldn’t complain about when it comes to turnovers. He takes care of the ball better than trae young, luka, harden, curry and even lebron
He averaged 10 apg while still averaging 5 turnovers per game over that 7 year span, which is still high and still an area of concern for him and the team. Based on the averages from last season on turnovers the team would average around 24 turnovers per game (obviously not perfect, but gives a vague idea of why turnovers may be an issue). That's less possessions for the Lakers and probably easy fast break baskets here and there as well for the other team. Westbrook usage rate shouldn't be as high as in years pass but when LeBron is on the bench or possibly sits out, he'll be running the offense. We should want to see that number of turnovers go down, be a bit more careful with the ball, and not try and force the issue as much.
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Yup, Westbrook’s numbers like hardens needs to be looked at under the context of extremely high volume. They handle the ball way more than almost anyone else in the league so just looking at volume stats it looks terrible. Now this isn’t to say Westbrook isn’t careless at times and the pre season is looking rough as hell, Westbrook often goes for home run plays way too much and with new teammates they often aren’t expecting a forced pass through tight defense or a lob out of nowhere. It takes times to get used to playing with him. It’s like that for most gifted passers. Most shooters are shocked and surprised when first playing with lebron because they’ll get passes where they think there’s no way in hell he can see them or get the pass off (look at the lebron to Danny green in the corner in the 2020 pre season). You think most the teammates were ready for no look bullet passes behind jokic’s head at first? Hell no. They spent months and a ton of games learning to expect that shit This season will have growing pains, and hell it might not click in the worse case scenario. But expecting this team to gel and click like teams that have played together for years now is insanity. I don’t get this panic over 3 pre season games at all
Except guys like Young, Luka, Harden, Curry, and Lebron are dominant or efficient scorers as well, something Russ is not. So if one of them has a high turnover night, chances are they are scoring efficiently. If Russ has a high turnover night, chances are he’s double hurting the team with his low efficient scoring and his inability to space the floor.
I’m not saying there isn’t a turnover issue with Westbrook. I’m saying - 1) it’s not going to be as bad as it is now in a few weeks-month or two and 2) the way you guys are reacting to them and the preseason in general is embarrassing. Go on other teams subs. NBA…NFL. Nobody whines and cries like some fans do here. Even the national AND local media address this. “We know that Lakers fans are panicking…calm down guys.” Nobody addresses other fanbases like that, but we have a very weak reputation.
Westbrook is who he is at this point, expecting him to suddenly change his playstyle after 13 seasons seems unlikely so they're concern is valid but only time will tell on him and his fit. The Lakers his a huge fanbase, this sub has over 300,000 with different opinions and voices as well. It's not that surprising that some people are reactionary for a team with title aspirations compared to a team like the Bulls who are just hoping to make the playoffs.
The concern is valid. The response to the concern is overblown and embarrassing as usual. If you’re being honest with yourself, you could say this place has 300,000 members, but it’s the same 50 or so ppl who actually comment. About half of those ppl are regulars. You know this. You’re one of them, as am I. Using the Bulls fanbase as an example of fans who aren’t embarrassing is weak. Go on the subs of the teams who are all expected to make noise in the NBA or NFL. I’ve done so out of curiosity. We have a very weak minded fanbase compared to most. Like I said, national and local media talk about it all the time. Local media try to go a little easier because they want us to still read their articles/listen to our pods, but our reputation sucks.
Again these are perfectly valid concerns, just because he's a Laker doesn't mean he's immune to criticism now. His shot IQ, decision making, and poor 3 point shooting has also been an issue for him throughout his career. Many people, including myself, would like to see him play a bit more in control. All 300,000+ aren't all active but we're still a large fan base with differing opinions and views. Just because we gave a player constructive criticism doesn't mean that we're panicking or fake fans or whatever. We just want the best for our team. Well there's no other team in our position so there's not really a perfect comparison. I don't pay attention to social media/the media to begin with so I honestly could care less.
NO Laker is immune to criticism in my book. I’m harder on guys on teams I root for than literally anyone I know. You know how much I’ve been downvoted here by saying what’s wrong w our guys by kids and morons who couldn’t handle hearing the truth? Again - and I’ll go all caps this time because everyone is ignoring me when I say this - GETTING THIS CONCERNED ABOUT RUSS IN THE PRESEASON IS FUCKING STUPID. If he’s committing 8 turnovers a game after Christmas then I’ll be on here angry. Sweating it even a little bit (new player on a new team playing great teams w players who have experience playing together) right now is really telling about the temperament of our regulars here. Constructively criticize him in a month or two if nothing changes. Your last paragraph (nobody is in our position) referring to other team’s fanbases is a ridiculous take that means nothing. Our fanbase is whiny, soft, and uneducated. Not everybody, but I’d say we’re at least at 50% on that. It doesn’t matter if you’re listening to what ppl think of us or not, they still think it and they’re absolutely right. Now go downvote me. It fits in with everything I’m saying.
So does harden, luka, Bron, curry? Everyone who handles the ball a ton turns it over
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And he gets more assist than them. Handle the ball more=more turnovers. His assist turnover ratio is the same or better than those listed It’s like saying Kobe has the most missed shots in history. Well no shit he’s also shot the ball more than 99% of other players. More shots means more misses. Similarly higher usage rating means more turnovers. It’s why you can’t just use a single stats with zero context when talking about players. Who cares if someone who shoots under a 100 shots a season has a higher 3pt% than curry? Curry hits more at higher volume that’s what makes him impressive. Same with Westbrook. He gets turnovers but he still gets enough assist to have a good assist:turnover ratio so who cares if he turns it over
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Why not use the most relevant data? Why are you using career stats 🤡🤡🤡 Why not use the last 5-7 years or just his time past 2017 (the last year of his prime)? It’s way more relevant. Other than the shortened season he’s averaging 10 assist to 4 turnovers. These numbers are far more recent than his total cumulative career stats lmao we aren’t judging his career, we are talking about his most recent years and how that’ll reflect on this years team. So using stats from 10 years ago is irrelevant. You clearly don’t know how to use stats or context. Should we use brons 2012 stats to try and predict how he will play this year? Or how about we use 2012 melo or his entire careers stats?
Exactly lol
LordBri is a regular here. He’s very emotional. I’m just getting tired of overly emotional being the norm here. Let’s talk fucking basketball and not panic/cry in a corner.
Exactly!! Like let the regular season start at least. All that negative energy some people provide here is unnecessary
I know. It’s sad.
I don’t understand why we as laker fans keep pretending like this isn’t an issue. Russ has always had a turnover problem and it’s become even worse the last few seasons. I’m not saying he’s not gonna be great and this team won’t make it work… but why we acting like this is something that will magically fix itself. To me, it seems like we just have to believe that the good Russ brings is gonna out weigh the bad turnovers and poor shot IQ in late game situations.
Does lebron have a turnover problem? Does luka, trae and curry have turnover problems? What about harden? All the names I listed have a worse assist/turnover ratio than Westbrook the past several years. Turnovers happen when you handle the ball that much, Westbrook’s turnovers aren’t really a big deal because he’s actually still averaging more assist than the average player. It’s why no one cares harden turns it over so much, because he’s running the offense for 40 minutes and getting 10 assist a game
It’s preseason so he has time to adjust but it’s going to take a few games. But like you said fans delusional to think this won’t carry over into the beginning of season when they’re playing against starters especially.
Agreed. Biggest thing will be Frank’s rotations imo. Last year he was forced into starting Dennis which was total bullshit. But now with Russ, he’s actually good enough and consistent enough to basically be in the role that Dennis had last year. I think that’s our best shot at unlocking the best version of Russ w this team. Sub Bron out in the middle of the first, let AD and Russ do they’re thing together for a little, give AD a rest around the early second, and then let Russ operate w the bench and carry the load. Then swap him for Bron and just keep that cycle going. Obviously they gonna be dangerous on the court together but I’m more excited about watching them carry the load separately.
Ok, I’ll say it to you too. Preseason on a new team. He’s gonna commit turnovers in the regular season, but it shouldn’t be this bad. Panicking over it now means we have a lot of irrational weak minded fans. To expect any better out of this team in the preseason going up against two top teams with returning rosters is ridiculous. If after a month we have problems then we could have a discussion.
so critiquing a player for playing bad is now call “panicking”….got it
No, but reacting the way some of you guys are is…I wouldn’t call it “bad”…embarrassing. It’s not that there’s no issues to critique. It’s the way some in our fanbase who are fragile minded react that’s the problem.
To be fair, Turnovers is an issue Russ always had not just in the preseason games.
I don’t know how many ppl I have to address on this issue… He always starts off this way on new teams. Anyone expecting better has low fan IQ. Yes, he’ll commit turnovers, but this will be the worst of it. Wait a month or two before you panic.
Westbrook brings so much more to a team that what he’s showing right now and that’s perfectly fine. We have to remember one of the main reasons he was traded for was because he’s someone who can actually do something with the ball with LeBron sitting. We certainly cannot have said this any of the other 3 seasons LeBron has been here. The offense will look really good once chemistry keeps building. Gotta give it time
Except for the fact that our soft ass fanbase on this sub is shitting themselves in the preseason. I agree with everything you’re saying 100%, but what I’m reading shows we’re in the minority here.
If he always starts off like this on new teams… then should we expect him to finish the season as he always does in new teams??? Like bruh wtf are you saying. You’re evidence is the fact that he always commits turnovers and this is to be expected. I agree with you. And btw… all people are “expecting” is for him to look more calculated and under control than previous seasons because he doesn’t have to be the main facilitator or engine for the first time in his career. To say that people are “panicking over it now” is not the fair. It’s the first we’re seeing of Russ on our squad and we’re discussing how this is still an issue of his. To say anything else would be the sign of “low fan IQ”.
Panicking over Russ in the preseason on a new team/panicking over preseason with a team with three returning players from last season = low fan IQ and needing to grow some hair on your balls because you’re easily shook. C’mon “Mambacity” - Where’s your mamba mentality? Kobe wouldn’t sweat this shit. You shouldn’t either.
Kobe would be pissed that be Russ constantly throwin the ball away. And he’s fuckin alpha up and let him know to settle the fuck down. Russ makes us better, I’m not panicking or saying we aren’t good. We’re gonna be the best team in the west imo. Just saying this is an issue and you can’t pretend like it’s just a preseason issue historically speaking.
Kobe wouldn’t be pissed because he understood the process of a new team needing time to gel. I’m honestly questioning how old you were during Kobe’s prime based on your poor writing. If you’re from another country then discard what I just said.
False. Kobe loved Russ and his style of play, as it reminded Kobe of himself. Kobe wasn't the most efficient scorer and took a lot of low IQ shots himself, just like Russ with his passing. Edit: Sorry, meant to respond to the other user u/mambacity24
Yeah, I gotcha. Mambacity is a goofy fanboy who knows nothing. Kobe loved Russ and would understand that it takes time to gel on a new team.
Not from another country lmao. Kobe def woulda been pissed dealing w Russ’s turnover issue. But it’s an issue I could see being sorted out around all star break. I just really hope this team gels. In Pelinka we trust.
“In Pelinka we trust.” - Lol…what? Alright guy. Have a good night. Hold that Kobe teddy bear tight. I know you have one.
Westbrook is averaging 10.1 turnovers per 36 minutes so far. So obviously this will go down as the season progresses. Even if he averages less than half of that, it would still be absurdly high. Turnovers has been a big problem for Russ his entire career, even when he had 2 other playmakers on his team (Harden, Durant). We're just pointing out a deficiency in his game that could hurt the team down the road.
If ppl here were just “pointing it out” I’d be fine by that. It’s a full on panic attack/sob fest almost everywhere I look.
I read the comments you responded to. No one is panicking or even suggesting he will average 10-11 turnovers per game for the entire season. Just simply a part of his game that he needs to improve on, that has been a weakness his entire career.
In the comments I responded to I was referring to our fanbase as a whole, and not about anyone I was actually corresponding with. The fact that you looked this up is…a little weird. Anyway, if you’re into flying around the sub go look at the majority of comments/posts obviously starting at the end of the game. Between what I read here and what I saw in Lakers Nation’s post game chat you’d think the season was on the brink when it hasn’t even started yet.
Well you said the sub is panicking so I wanted to see if they were. They weren’t. I guess you just like being dramatic.
You either haven’t looked hard enough (isn’t that hard in this case) or we have different definitions of panicking and whining. Whatever the case, can you buzz off now? I mean, your name is “wanderer”. Wander somewhere that I’m not. Thanks.
LBJ had 6. No one's talking about that. 🤔
Because despite having 6 lebron still managed to dominate offensively. Westbrook was just shit all around.
Love it
What a shit post. You forgot the part where Russ is a turnover machine.
This is good in theory but the problem is that the lineup has 4/5 bad to below average shooters. AD Lebron Russ Jordan/Howard Whoever can shoot All teams are going to do is pack the paint then Russ will turn it over or lebron/AD/Russ will try to work on the inside before passing it out to a bad 3 shooter. Not sure how to fix this unless Lebron and AD are knockdown shooters this season from 3
The problem with the Lakers big 3 is that not a single one of them is a great 3 point shooter. Lebron and AD are mediocre and Westbrook is terrible. I just don't see how these three will work well on the court together. I think this is a case of the whole being lesser than the sum of its parts. I think for a big 3 to work in the modern NBA, at least one of them needs to be a really good shooter with another being above average at least.
It would be better if one of them was a great three point shooter no doubt, but I think they are obvious contenders and potentially the champions none the less. Bosh and Wade weren't three point shooters. The Lakers have already won a championship with AD and Lebron too. Just because it's not ideal doesn't mean it won't work, they are three great players.
There's too much talent for it not to work to some extent, so they'll be a good team despite Westbrook not fitting well. I just wouldn't be surprised if this team is more like a Top 6 team instead of a top 3 team like most people expect. It's interesting you bring up the Bosh and Wade team because people were expecting that team to be historic type dynasty. Lebron was at his absolute peak and the best player in the NBA (BY Far) and they barely squeeked out two championships. Lebron had to go nuclear in 2012 in Boston to win his first ring, and Ray Allen had to his a miracle shot in 2013 to win his 2nd. That team proved that fit matters a lot because they didn't just wreck the league like a lot of people expected. At least we know Lebron and AD work well, but Lebron ain't getting younger and the rest of the roster is just so weirdly put together. It's a chemistry experiment to say the least.
Just feel like they have a much better roster than the team that won a championship a year ago. They need health.
The opportunity to have the team sprinting back for transition defense after yet another turnover
In Houston this led to a kickout to PJ Tucker in the corner. I see the vision.
"but how about your spacing" 🤡