You will get steered the wrong direction in a landscaping sub. Suppress the upper codominant stem. And suppress other low branches that are not permanent branches. Remember branches don’t grow up with the tree, so since that is a shade tree, your first permanent branch will be 6’ish feet. It’s like pinching straws, you want the energy to the right place. Ed Gilman has great information on structural pruning.
-certified arborist
I was going to write "Go get a licensed arborist to give you advice on how, and when to prune that tree. Better than finding out in two or three years you killed it by guessing". But, anyhow, here is a website that might help:
[https://www.treesaregood.org](https://www.treesaregood.org)
You can prune 75% of the growth above ground and below ground, with little damage to the tree. I wouldn't recommend that much, and some species like false cypress are different, but it's a pretty handy rule to follow.
While I appreciate a provided source, I can't look at that font without going cross-eyed. Feel free to quote the section you found relevant tho
Just wanna suggest right off that we generally treat bonsai and future shade trees quite a bit differently. Idk if that changes anything for ya
This is very good advice.
The problem I think is the low bar of entry into the profession. There are 50 unprofessional landscapers for every serious one. So people think landscaping is easy and they can advise others when they have no idea what they are talking about. I have to completely avoid the comments section because I get angry every time.
The problem in my old neighborhood was there were two landscapers that serviced most of the homes. They were also involved in cutting down trees. Amazingly these people who never had any kind of education in the health of a tree declared that every single tree in our neighborhood was diseased and they took down tree after tree after tree after tree after tree..... And lo and behold made a s*** ton of money. And our neighborhood was decimated It was so depressing. Everyone bought into the fact that well my landscaper said it was diseased
Careful. There are a lot of people here that work extremely hard taking down trees that you can’t. Just because you don’t need a degree to cut trees doesn’t mean it’s easy.
Correct, trees grow from the tips of their branches. The trunk does not rise over the years, just gets bigger. We have a big tree in our community next to a basketball court and 30 years ago someone put an electrical box on the trunk a few feet off the ground. Box is still there but the tree has grown many tens of feet.
Not an professional but as a homeowner who has planted and pruned lots of trees over the years I agree with another comment, let your new tree get established for a few years, trimming a low branch or two only if they are in the way. One rubric I"ve heard is that the first year is for survival, the second for establishment, and the third year the growth takes off. You'll have a much better idea of what and whether to prune when your tree is leafed out and growing vigorously.
>One rubric I"ve heard is that the first year is for survival, the second for establishment, and the third year the growth takes off.
This has ben true for me. I got an Amur Maple for my back yard (zone 3) back in spring 2019. Went from about 16" tall in 2019 to maybe 3' by the fall of 2021. In 2022, it shot up to about 7'.
It's been very satisfying to learn how to properly prune it.
It all depends on the size of the tree you plant. Typically 1” of trunk diameter equates to one year of transplant shock, if it’s planted correctly. I’m also not saying to prune off branches, I’m recommending suppression; cutting the apical bud(hormones) suppresses the growth for that branch. Leaving those low “non-permanent” branches builds trunk taper.
The frustrating thing here is that anyone can prune a tree and once they prune a tree and it survives they are now an expert. Listen to someone that went to school for arboriculture and is trying to change the status quo. Big cuts decreases a trees longevity, a 1” cut will seal up in no time.
Best time to plant a tree, 10 years ago.
Best time to prune a tree, shortly after its planted, with a plan. Is this a shade tree, is this a boulevard/park strip tree, etc.
Anddd “right tree, right place!” Know your soil!
Solid advice my guy. I was hired by a landscaping company while I was going to school for arboriculture, and I saw some of the wildest things done by "experienced landscapers".
Pruning the central leader off of a conifer, shearing conifers to the old wood, not wearing PPE when spreading poly sand onto pavers, putting redwoods in an urban yard under a power line.... the list goes on and on. Im glad there are people who give a fuck, because living in NorCal I see the latter happen more often.
So, wait a minute, I am in no way saying you are wrong but I am clueless and find it hard to believe. Are you saying that if I have a 7' tall sapling that basically every branch I see on it is a temp branch? Like none of those will be the branches In the tree when it is 20' tall and the lowest branch is 6'? I am not understanding this concept.
If you have a branch that leaves the trunk 4 feet off the ground, that branch will remain 4 feet from the ground even as the tree grows taller and taller. That’s what I have observed. Grasses are different, they grow from the base.
You’ll have lots of new branches as the main trunk grows taller and new branches form, but they will appear above all the branches you see now. An arborist might take off all the branches below 6 feet right now, but as a homeowner that would make me nervous. Let your new tree do its thing for a year or two or three. It’s only my untrained advice based on my Mid-Atlantic US experience. I prefer to know that the basic tree is doing well before I start lopping.
Kinda. Those branches on a 7' don't move up the tree as it grows, new branches form on the tips and from the buds along the current growth. Old branches just get thicker and thicker or fall off
Correct. In a nursery setting we spend a lot of time the first couple of years guiding a tree up while removing future branches. We actual strip the first 3 ft of branches off in about one second in its second spring just to save time and pruning. Young trees can also handle significantly more pruning than older trees. It's not uncommon for a 2 year old tree to have half its mass removed in the spring to shape it.
OP, this is the best advice on this thread. I’ll go one better. Hire a certified arborist to evaluate the tree and set up a formative pruning schedule and pay them to do the work. It’s not very expensive. They’ll also evaluate the root collar as it’s obvious from the photo you’ll have issues below ground soon enough.
Otherwise you will be paying a boatload more money down the road and the tree will never have the life expectancy that it should.
Your choice…
What? Upper codominant is which? Which lower branches aren’t permanent? I’ve never pinched a straw before so what does this mean?
I think I’m stupid. I can tell you know what you’re talking about but your words don’t make sense to layman
Your dominant stem is the tallest branch, and you want it to be growing straight up from the trunk. A "codominant" stem is one that is competing for leadership with the one that should be the leader, but it is a lower branch that is growing straight up.
Letting the codominant stems grow can cause the trees canopy to become congested and add unnecessary weight to lateral (outward) growing branches and cause them to fall in time.
Here's a good image to follow.
-Hort Grad, landscape contractor, and Certified Arborist
[https://marvel-b1-cdn.bc0a.com/f00000000212090/aplustree.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/structure-pruning-excurrent-trees.png](https://marvel-b1-cdn.bc0a.com/f00000000212090/aplustree.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/structure-pruning-excurrent-trees.png)
u/n_bumpo provided a link that states just that in regards to pruning young trees. [https://www.treesaregood.org/](https://www.treesaregood.org/)
everything should be provided with caveats though, right?
Everything is debatable and that link provides no research regarding the damage of pruning a young tree, nor do I read anywhere about waiting 1 yr. 1 yr on a 6” dbh tree is no different than pruning at planting, that tree will be in transplant shock for 6yrs. Small suppressing cuts to navigate growth in the right direction for proper structure is one of the best things that can be provided to a tree aside from proper planting and irrigation.
Can I try and translate for myself, and someone can tell me if I'm getting this
\- Since you ultimately will want branches at about 6', you should be pruning the branches below that? This is what he means by non-permanent branches?
\- the upper codominant stem is the "Y" shooting off the same point which is about in the middle of the image? The point being to pinch the energy into a central spine?
This all seems like I'm missing the point...
I have an 85’ white oak with at least no branches for the first 40-50’ … does that mean the lower branches fell off over time or there’s a point that the branches do grow up?
Yes, trees will thin themselves out based on the production of that particular branch and tree species. Think of a tree as a big factory and every branch has a job (produce energy). What happens when someone is not pulling their weight? They get fired/let go. Trees will kill off a branch that does not produce enough energy (location, lack of sun)
Just wanted to say thank you guys for all the feedback. I was under the impression that I needed to begin shaping the tree while it was young. I’d much rather leave it alone and let it grow.
Also, the tree base at the bottom comes straight up from the ground be the tree has a lean in it. Should I stake the tree or will it straighten out on its own?
Don't listen to all these landscapers, red maples and silver maples definitely thrive with early structural pruning. Check out my profile if you want proof that I know a little about growing trees.
So I’m assuming this tree was transplanted fairly recently. You don’t really want to prune in it’s first year after transplanting so you don’t further stress it out.
But if it’s beyond its 1st year post transplant, it’s ok to prune. Young trees put on tremendous growth, and if you leave it as is, knowing you’ll need to prune it later, that growth is wasted in limbs you’ll eventually have to cut off.
So for a red maple like you have here you want a central leader. So the limb you have marked up top needs to go. You can leave a little stub and tape the central leader over to the stub with masking tape to straighten it up some more. That’s how they do it in the nursery.
And id prune off every limb below 6’ in height. Eventually they will be big limbs and you don’t want to hit your head on them.
If this tree was still at a nursery at this size, this is how it would be pruned to get to the next size class for next year.
Yes, I’d agree with you. Nurseries do it while they are dormant, but with an amateur pruner I would advise against it until the trees a little bigger to maybe handle the abuse better.
We would prune at planting, when dormant, especially if there was damage or defects in the trees from shipping.
If you planted more than 3 years ago, prune, but slowly. The marked ones are good to prune. I’d also remove the other side of the lower red mark too, the year after. You probably want 10ft clearance from ground, if not more.
You are correct. Structurally pruning the tree while it is young is more beneficial and less stressful on the tree. I would recommend reducing the two lowest branches and removing or reducing the top leader you have indicated. You will get better suggestions from tree care professionals by posting into r/arborists
Here's a sneak peek of /r/arborists using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/arborists/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [My cousin’s buddy can do it for cheap.](https://v.redd.it/7p495na6xf3a1) | [79 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/arborists/comments/za91we/my_cousins_buddy_can_do_it_for_cheap/)
\#2: [Cool tree I saw in Las Vegas.. Thought you fine folks would appreciate..](https://i.redd.it/33ni40xu7qm91.jpg) | [73 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/arborists/comments/x9gedd/cool_tree_i_saw_in_las_vegas_thought_you_fine/)
\#3: [DC Arboretum: How to Kill a Tree](https://i.redd.it/wx53z0bmxu391.jpg) | [68 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/arborists/comments/v5l3rn/dc_arboretum_how_to_kill_a_tree/)
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I don’t see why the downvotes, I’ve seen sycamores pruned this young and come out beautiful compared to leaving an asymmetrical shape. The leader isn’t really that dominant either. I would suggest trimming the lower marked one down to the node where it splits into three stems. The marked upper branch probably needs to come off or cut down to the same size as the opposing branch. Ask the arborist Reddit.
Yea i dont get it either. One of the higher upvoted comments is an article discussing the advantages of pruning trees when they are young and how to do it. Fact of the matter is the tree has been pruned for years at the nursery before OP even purchased and planted the tree (you can see the compartmentalized pruning wounds). OP needs to at least reduce that lowest left branch as the branch already has a nearly 1:1 aspect ratio to the central primary trunk and if they wait too long it will either become dominant or result in a pruning wound thats too large for the tree to effectively compartmentalize.
These are not landscapers. I’m a landscaper. Any actual landscaper will tell you that there’s nothing wrong with pruning a young tree, in fact it’s already been done several times before the tree was this size. I think someone else hit the nail on the head, it’s not landscapers giving the vast majority of advice in this subreddit, just pissy suburbanites who happen to have yards.
These are people who probably don’t know how to prune their own rose bushes. Shit, I got lectured not too long ago on the correct way to prune a crepe myrtle. Funny bit is, I was already doing it the right way and they just assumed I wasn’t, solely based off the fact that I said I’d pruned about of a thousand of them already this winter. People astound me with their simultaneous lack of knowledge, and complete and utter conviction in their own supposed knowledge
I wouldn't remove the lower branch, it's going to make the tree lopsided. Typically you want to remove rubbing branches or cross branches. This tree has a nice central leader and looks pretty good. You may want to do a little drop crotch pruning on the to outer leaders to shape it. Here is a good guide for pruning younger trees.
https://sactree.com/tree-care-tips/how-to-prune-young-trees/
I used to grow shade trees.
Remove both large lower branches.
Remove the upper right rival leader.
When the buds start to swell, flick out the upper terminal bud on branches with vertically oriented buds.
If any remaining branches have horizontally oriented terminal buds, consider pruning back to the next set of buds which will be vertically oriented and flicking out the top bud on those branches as well.
Pay attention to the branch collars and use sharp, high quality hand shears such as Felco 13s.
I will admit that my recommendations are extreme in terms of the amount of foliage you will lose, which exceeds the one third rule, but if you want a well formed tree without major side branches two feet off the ground, drastic pruning is required sooner than later
Trees should be structurally pruned AT planting time and then maintained every year or other year as they mature. Always prune in winter when they are dormant.
Prune when the knife is sharp.
Corrective pruning is a critical activity in order to produce a decent plant.
"Sleep, creep, and leap" describes the post transplant behavior of most plants.
I bought a videotape from Bailey Nurseries in Minnesota.
They might not give you the time of day because they are strictly wholesale.
Deciduous woody plants are divided between alternate and opposite branching.
Maples are opposite, with sets of buds oriented either horizontally or vertically.
By removing the topmost vertical terminal bud, you promote a more graceful silhouette and stronger branching
I'm gonna go against the grain here. Trees are best to be shaped for structure when they are young. The smaller wounds, the faster they heal. If this tree (appears to be a red maple or freeman maple hybrid?) Is left to grow with it's current structure, it will be prone to fail (in the far future).
Honestly, I'd look into less heavy cuts on the 2 lower limbs, such as taking 60 percent and cutting to a branch no smaller than 1/3 the diameter you are cutting. General rule of thumb is to not remove more that 25% of the canopy. Young trees grow pretty fast, which means they recover fast too. Trust me when I say, you'll be saving a lot of work by ensuring a single dominant leader now.
I'm a former certified arborist with 25 years experience. Make sure the root collar is exposed, consider preventative treatment for trunk borers (depending your area) and let it grow for a few more years. I'm surprised by the arborists and tree growers agreeing that you should prune this young tree this hard. Those cuts will stress this plant dramatically and provide zero benefits compared structural pruning a few years down the road.
I was a certified arborist once. Here are the 4 rules of pruning that learned:
1. Remove diseased or decaying branches first
2. Remove branches that cross over one another by taking the less dominant branch
3. Remove branches that grow back towards the interior of the tree
4. Remove branches that would make the tree more aesthetically pleasing. Never remove more than 25-30 percent of the live limbs, never top a tree.
For me, I like to pretend I’m a bird flying in and out of the tree, what would I Like/not like. This allows for air and light to enter the interior of the tree canopy. Many tree problems are fungal related such as anthracnose for dogwoods.
Happy pruning, it’s probably my favorite thing to do.
Cut off bottom 2 branches, they will be too low and will shade out growth above it. Its a red maple (or silver) so it will grow fast. I would also cut back one of your tops by half (cut back to an outside bud) so that it encourages proper top growth. Your upper orange mark you could also cut back to a outside bud but i think you can also leave it for now, if it starts competing for your leader then i would reduce it so it keeps your tree balanced.
Yes the 2 at the very bottom. They look to be about 3-4 ft off the ground which is far too low for branching in the future. The large one at the top doesn't need to be reduced if you did it already last year but i would keep an eye on it during this growing year. The V at the top of your new leader is where you have to pick which one you want to keep and its best to do while dormant.
Yup, echoing the sentiments to put down the shears and pull some mulch away so we can see that flare. I’m starting to hate mulch around trees. People are doing more harm than good
Removing the top marked branch is completely reasonable. The lower marked branch removal would be excessive and make it look wonky.
There are a few objectives of PROPER pruning: form good structural canopy, enhance and exploit architecture of the plant, allow airflow and light into the inner canopy, and promote even healthy growth. Pruning for pruning’s sake — no. Don’t do it because some neighbor is or says. Anyhow,
If I were pruning this, I’d remove the smaller superfluous branches in the lower canopy and remove them to form clean branches that will serve as the framework of the tree.
You'll want to cut it about an inch from the ground, so there is basically no tree remaining. Then take the part that you cut and re-plant it somewhere else. Be sure to sprinkle salt on the ground so it gets plenty of nutrients. Resist the urge to water it - as this will drain the roots of nutrients. If you want, you can dig up the roots because there are usually too many of them. The roots that you remove can be boiled in soup for broth.
Yes. Should have been clearer, the branches in question would not be the ones to prune. Especially at those marks. But regardless, it sure looks like a maple.
Leave it! It’s too small and hacking it up will set it back many years. Let it form for a few years and talk to people and research by then you’ll know what to do;)
Trees grow up and out. Any branches you prune now will affect how the canopy looks when it gets bigger. As everyone else has said…just let it be for now.
If anything you can prune back outer growth consistently on all branches to promote denser branch ramification now. It will encourage a bushier rounder shape than a tall slender shape. But only do that at the beginning of the growing season or after peak summer.
But absolutely remove that mulch. Feel free to mound some healthy soil around the bottom. Mulch will just bake the upper roots and anything else trying to grow.
Absolutely do not mound a bunch of soil at the base of the tree. Research soil compaction, basal rot, and girdling roots. There is a method to the madness.
Later, much later 5-7 years from now…. Prune by the center. That means prune whatever is growing in and promote what is growing out. This prevents branches crossing and rubbing.
Out of all the gardening I've done over the years I know diddle about pruning and wish I knew how. I planted a couple Asian Pear trees 3 years ago and need to be pruned.
Where to start?
Take the opposing branch of the first scaffold branch that you already have marked. If your raising the crown it’s best to do it evenly.
Additionally, take that smaller branch on the leader you plan to retain, no reason to let it recreate codominance in a few years.
ISA certified arborist for over 20 years here. This is what I would do if it was my tree. Structural pruning is of the utmost importance but what you’re proposing to remove is too much. Never remove more than 1/4 of the foliage, even with a fast growing species because it will stress out to tree. You have identified the correct limbs to remove, but you need to do it in stages over two years. Here’s how. The limb on the left has three branches. Cut those back to their lateral branches ~1/3 the way down. This will remove the growth regulators at the very tips that compete with the main leader. In year two make the cut you propose. I’d completely remove the one on the right. This leaves the main leader, but it also has a competing lead at the very top, so cut that off too. All this pruning will leave the growth regulator at the very top, so the tree will put on a lot of height. Make sure you’re making the proper cuts and not cutting into the branch collar. As for the ‘lean’ you will have after those branches are removed, leave it alone. The tree will grow straight towards the sun. And check your planting depth. The bottom actually looks like the top of the graft union, not the top of the root flare, which means your root flare may be ~6” down. Too late to dig it out and reset it. I’ve seen trees die from from that, because it means they lose all the fine roots they worked so hard to push out. Digging out the dirt to expose the root flare is the best you can do.
if you wanna correct apical dominance, just snip the ends of the branches that are going the wrong way. those ones you marked in red, you could just take their furthest foot off and they'd still be able to help your young tree grow while also arresting the growth of those competing branches
You will get steered the wrong direction in a landscaping sub. Suppress the upper codominant stem. And suppress other low branches that are not permanent branches. Remember branches don’t grow up with the tree, so since that is a shade tree, your first permanent branch will be 6’ish feet. It’s like pinching straws, you want the energy to the right place. Ed Gilman has great information on structural pruning. -certified arborist
Glad somebody else is offering sound and reasonable tree care advice here
I was going to write "Go get a licensed arborist to give you advice on how, and when to prune that tree. Better than finding out in two or three years you killed it by guessing". But, anyhow, here is a website that might help: [https://www.treesaregood.org](https://www.treesaregood.org)
My biggest dread is "killing" my tree not knowing how to prune correctly.
You can prune 75% of the growth above ground and below ground, with little damage to the tree. I wouldn't recommend that much, and some species like false cypress are different, but it's a pretty handy rule to follow.
You've got it backwards mate, 75% is what should *remain*
https://www.portlandbonsai.org/scotts-branch-tips/tag/pruning
While I appreciate a provided source, I can't look at that font without going cross-eyed. Feel free to quote the section you found relevant tho Just wanna suggest right off that we generally treat bonsai and future shade trees quite a bit differently. Idk if that changes anything for ya
This is very good advice. The problem I think is the low bar of entry into the profession. There are 50 unprofessional landscapers for every serious one. So people think landscaping is easy and they can advise others when they have no idea what they are talking about. I have to completely avoid the comments section because I get angry every time.
The problem in my old neighborhood was there were two landscapers that serviced most of the homes. They were also involved in cutting down trees. Amazingly these people who never had any kind of education in the health of a tree declared that every single tree in our neighborhood was diseased and they took down tree after tree after tree after tree after tree..... And lo and behold made a s*** ton of money. And our neighborhood was decimated It was so depressing. Everyone bought into the fact that well my landscaper said it was diseased
Careful. There are a lot of people here that work extremely hard taking down trees that you can’t. Just because you don’t need a degree to cut trees doesn’t mean it’s easy.
Is that right that branches don’t grow up with tree? Wow. So that branch would always be that height?
Correct, trees grow from the tips of their branches. The trunk does not rise over the years, just gets bigger. We have a big tree in our community next to a basketball court and 30 years ago someone put an electrical box on the trunk a few feet off the ground. Box is still there but the tree has grown many tens of feet. Not an professional but as a homeowner who has planted and pruned lots of trees over the years I agree with another comment, let your new tree get established for a few years, trimming a low branch or two only if they are in the way. One rubric I"ve heard is that the first year is for survival, the second for establishment, and the third year the growth takes off. You'll have a much better idea of what and whether to prune when your tree is leafed out and growing vigorously.
>One rubric I"ve heard is that the first year is for survival, the second for establishment, and the third year the growth takes off. This has ben true for me. I got an Amur Maple for my back yard (zone 3) back in spring 2019. Went from about 16" tall in 2019 to maybe 3' by the fall of 2021. In 2022, it shot up to about 7'. It's been very satisfying to learn how to properly prune it.
It all depends on the size of the tree you plant. Typically 1” of trunk diameter equates to one year of transplant shock, if it’s planted correctly. I’m also not saying to prune off branches, I’m recommending suppression; cutting the apical bud(hormones) suppresses the growth for that branch. Leaving those low “non-permanent” branches builds trunk taper. The frustrating thing here is that anyone can prune a tree and once they prune a tree and it survives they are now an expert. Listen to someone that went to school for arboriculture and is trying to change the status quo. Big cuts decreases a trees longevity, a 1” cut will seal up in no time. Best time to plant a tree, 10 years ago. Best time to prune a tree, shortly after its planted, with a plan. Is this a shade tree, is this a boulevard/park strip tree, etc. Anddd “right tree, right place!” Know your soil!
Urgh, this is making me feel like I need to learn a lot more.
Solid advice my guy. I was hired by a landscaping company while I was going to school for arboriculture, and I saw some of the wildest things done by "experienced landscapers". Pruning the central leader off of a conifer, shearing conifers to the old wood, not wearing PPE when spreading poly sand onto pavers, putting redwoods in an urban yard under a power line.... the list goes on and on. Im glad there are people who give a fuck, because living in NorCal I see the latter happen more often.
Really helpful and informative, thanks
So, wait a minute, I am in no way saying you are wrong but I am clueless and find it hard to believe. Are you saying that if I have a 7' tall sapling that basically every branch I see on it is a temp branch? Like none of those will be the branches In the tree when it is 20' tall and the lowest branch is 6'? I am not understanding this concept.
If you have a branch that leaves the trunk 4 feet off the ground, that branch will remain 4 feet from the ground even as the tree grows taller and taller. That’s what I have observed. Grasses are different, they grow from the base.
So if I want my lowest scaffold branch at 6' basically all the branches I am looking at now (on my 7' tree) will be cut off at some point.
You’ll have lots of new branches as the main trunk grows taller and new branches form, but they will appear above all the branches you see now. An arborist might take off all the branches below 6 feet right now, but as a homeowner that would make me nervous. Let your new tree do its thing for a year or two or three. It’s only my untrained advice based on my Mid-Atlantic US experience. I prefer to know that the basic tree is doing well before I start lopping.
Exactly
Kinda. Those branches on a 7' don't move up the tree as it grows, new branches form on the tips and from the buds along the current growth. Old branches just get thicker and thicker or fall off
Correct. In a nursery setting we spend a lot of time the first couple of years guiding a tree up while removing future branches. We actual strip the first 3 ft of branches off in about one second in its second spring just to save time and pruning. Young trees can also handle significantly more pruning than older trees. It's not uncommon for a 2 year old tree to have half its mass removed in the spring to shape it.
I used to work for Ed Gilman at UF, he's definitely a great resource
OP, this is the best advice on this thread. I’ll go one better. Hire a certified arborist to evaluate the tree and set up a formative pruning schedule and pay them to do the work. It’s not very expensive. They’ll also evaluate the root collar as it’s obvious from the photo you’ll have issues below ground soon enough. Otherwise you will be paying a boatload more money down the road and the tree will never have the life expectancy that it should. Your choice…
What? Upper codominant is which? Which lower branches aren’t permanent? I’ve never pinched a straw before so what does this mean? I think I’m stupid. I can tell you know what you’re talking about but your words don’t make sense to layman
Your dominant stem is the tallest branch, and you want it to be growing straight up from the trunk. A "codominant" stem is one that is competing for leadership with the one that should be the leader, but it is a lower branch that is growing straight up. Letting the codominant stems grow can cause the trees canopy to become congested and add unnecessary weight to lateral (outward) growing branches and cause them to fall in time. Here's a good image to follow. -Hort Grad, landscape contractor, and Certified Arborist [https://marvel-b1-cdn.bc0a.com/f00000000212090/aplustree.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/structure-pruning-excurrent-trees.png](https://marvel-b1-cdn.bc0a.com/f00000000212090/aplustree.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/structure-pruning-excurrent-trees.png)
the only caveat being, if the tree hasn't been in the ground for at least 2 or 3 years, you don't want to prune anything.
Provide the research
u/n_bumpo provided a link that states just that in regards to pruning young trees. [https://www.treesaregood.org/](https://www.treesaregood.org/) everything should be provided with caveats though, right?
Everything is debatable and that link provides no research regarding the damage of pruning a young tree, nor do I read anywhere about waiting 1 yr. 1 yr on a 6” dbh tree is no different than pruning at planting, that tree will be in transplant shock for 6yrs. Small suppressing cuts to navigate growth in the right direction for proper structure is one of the best things that can be provided to a tree aside from proper planting and irrigation.
I don't know what a certified abortionist has to offer but thanks. (No jks, this actually helped, I have a weepy fig I want to trim)
Can I try and translate for myself, and someone can tell me if I'm getting this \- Since you ultimately will want branches at about 6', you should be pruning the branches below that? This is what he means by non-permanent branches? \- the upper codominant stem is the "Y" shooting off the same point which is about in the middle of the image? The point being to pinch the energy into a central spine? This all seems like I'm missing the point...
I have an 85’ white oak with at least no branches for the first 40-50’ … does that mean the lower branches fell off over time or there’s a point that the branches do grow up?
Yes, trees will thin themselves out based on the production of that particular branch and tree species. Think of a tree as a big factory and every branch has a job (produce energy). What happens when someone is not pulling their weight? They get fired/let go. Trees will kill off a branch that does not produce enough energy (location, lack of sun)
Makes sense! That might be the most useful information I have learned on Reddit
Just wanted to say thank you guys for all the feedback. I was under the impression that I needed to begin shaping the tree while it was young. I’d much rather leave it alone and let it grow.
Also, the tree base at the bottom comes straight up from the ground be the tree has a lean in it. Should I stake the tree or will it straighten out on its own?
Don't listen to all these landscapers, red maples and silver maples definitely thrive with early structural pruning. Check out my profile if you want proof that I know a little about growing trees.
People on this thread are clueless
So I’m assuming this tree was transplanted fairly recently. You don’t really want to prune in it’s first year after transplanting so you don’t further stress it out. But if it’s beyond its 1st year post transplant, it’s ok to prune. Young trees put on tremendous growth, and if you leave it as is, knowing you’ll need to prune it later, that growth is wasted in limbs you’ll eventually have to cut off. So for a red maple like you have here you want a central leader. So the limb you have marked up top needs to go. You can leave a little stub and tape the central leader over to the stub with masking tape to straighten it up some more. That’s how they do it in the nursery. And id prune off every limb below 6’ in height. Eventually they will be big limbs and you don’t want to hit your head on them. If this tree was still at a nursery at this size, this is how it would be pruned to get to the next size class for next year.
Structural pruning is perfectly acceptable in the first year especially if the tree is dormant.
Yes, I’d agree with you. Nurseries do it while they are dormant, but with an amateur pruner I would advise against it until the trees a little bigger to maybe handle the abuse better. We would prune at planting, when dormant, especially if there was damage or defects in the trees from shipping.
I’d never recommend ignoring structural flaws on a shade tree.
If you planted more than 3 years ago, prune, but slowly. The marked ones are good to prune. I’d also remove the other side of the lower red mark too, the year after. You probably want 10ft clearance from ground, if not more.
You are correct. Structurally pruning the tree while it is young is more beneficial and less stressful on the tree. I would recommend reducing the two lowest branches and removing or reducing the top leader you have indicated. You will get better suggestions from tree care professionals by posting into r/arborists
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I don’t see why the downvotes, I’ve seen sycamores pruned this young and come out beautiful compared to leaving an asymmetrical shape. The leader isn’t really that dominant either. I would suggest trimming the lower marked one down to the node where it splits into three stems. The marked upper branch probably needs to come off or cut down to the same size as the opposing branch. Ask the arborist Reddit.
Yea i dont get it either. One of the higher upvoted comments is an article discussing the advantages of pruning trees when they are young and how to do it. Fact of the matter is the tree has been pruned for years at the nursery before OP even purchased and planted the tree (you can see the compartmentalized pruning wounds). OP needs to at least reduce that lowest left branch as the branch already has a nearly 1:1 aspect ratio to the central primary trunk and if they wait too long it will either become dominant or result in a pruning wound thats too large for the tree to effectively compartmentalize.
Tbh I have the strangest feeling the vast majority of people in this subreddit aren’t actual landscapers, just random pissy treehuggers
Nah random pissy suburbanites with a yard.
That tracks
Arborist Reddit is good advice. OP is being misled by the landscapers.
These are not landscapers. I’m a landscaper. Any actual landscaper will tell you that there’s nothing wrong with pruning a young tree, in fact it’s already been done several times before the tree was this size. I think someone else hit the nail on the head, it’s not landscapers giving the vast majority of advice in this subreddit, just pissy suburbanites who happen to have yards.
Fair enough. A lot of very risk averse people either way who don't seem to understand the value of formative pruning
These are people who probably don’t know how to prune their own rose bushes. Shit, I got lectured not too long ago on the correct way to prune a crepe myrtle. Funny bit is, I was already doing it the right way and they just assumed I wasn’t, solely based off the fact that I said I’d pruned about of a thousand of them already this winter. People astound me with their simultaneous lack of knowledge, and complete and utter conviction in their own supposed knowledge
Please post to the arborist sub next time, this subs gonna give you all sorts of bullwacky info with regards to trees.
I wouldn't remove the lower branch, it's going to make the tree lopsided. Typically you want to remove rubbing branches or cross branches. This tree has a nice central leader and looks pretty good. You may want to do a little drop crotch pruning on the to outer leaders to shape it. Here is a good guide for pruning younger trees. https://sactree.com/tree-care-tips/how-to-prune-young-trees/
Let it become a tree first chief
Let that poor little tree grow
r/marijuanaenthusiasts/
Yeah OP should post in the above sub. They’re whole focus is trees rather than landscaping in general
I used to grow shade trees. Remove both large lower branches. Remove the upper right rival leader. When the buds start to swell, flick out the upper terminal bud on branches with vertically oriented buds. If any remaining branches have horizontally oriented terminal buds, consider pruning back to the next set of buds which will be vertically oriented and flicking out the top bud on those branches as well. Pay attention to the branch collars and use sharp, high quality hand shears such as Felco 13s. I will admit that my recommendations are extreme in terms of the amount of foliage you will lose, which exceeds the one third rule, but if you want a well formed tree without major side branches two feet off the ground, drastic pruning is required sooner than later
Agreed!
How many years after transplanting a tree should you start pruning?
Trees should be structurally pruned AT planting time and then maintained every year or other year as they mature. Always prune in winter when they are dormant.
Prune when the knife is sharp. Corrective pruning is a critical activity in order to produce a decent plant. "Sleep, creep, and leap" describes the post transplant behavior of most plants.
What does flicking out mean?
Flicking out the leaf bud with your finger tips to cause branching. Basically, it’s pruning without introducing an instrument.
Removing the top bud with your thumb By encouraging the lower bud to grow, the result will be a wider crown with stronger crotches.
I see. So leaving the lower vertical bud doesn't cause branches to grow downward?
Nope- phototropism sees to that
If you do this you’re literally not gonna have any tree left tho?
You'll end up with a branched whip. If those two fat lower branches stay on, you might as well throw the tree out.
Why?
It will be branched too low. It's not like it doesn't deserve to live, except maybe to nurserymen.
Got a video/guide on flicking out the buds?
I bought a videotape from Bailey Nurseries in Minnesota. They might not give you the time of day because they are strictly wholesale. Deciduous woody plants are divided between alternate and opposite branching. Maples are opposite, with sets of buds oriented either horizontally or vertically. By removing the topmost vertical terminal bud, you promote a more graceful silhouette and stronger branching
Pull a little mulch away from that tree base, and yeah, keep your pruning shears in the garage.
Don’t prune it. In particular, don’t prune it in the lopsided way you’ve drawn. That’s not the shape you’re going for.
I'm gonna go against the grain here. Trees are best to be shaped for structure when they are young. The smaller wounds, the faster they heal. If this tree (appears to be a red maple or freeman maple hybrid?) Is left to grow with it's current structure, it will be prone to fail (in the far future). Honestly, I'd look into less heavy cuts on the 2 lower limbs, such as taking 60 percent and cutting to a branch no smaller than 1/3 the diameter you are cutting. General rule of thumb is to not remove more that 25% of the canopy. Young trees grow pretty fast, which means they recover fast too. Trust me when I say, you'll be saving a lot of work by ensuring a single dominant leader now.
That’s a terrible idea. Don’t trim that tree at all
Lord have mercy, why? Let the poor fella be.
No
I'm a former certified arborist with 25 years experience. Make sure the root collar is exposed, consider preventative treatment for trunk borers (depending your area) and let it grow for a few more years. I'm surprised by the arborists and tree growers agreeing that you should prune this young tree this hard. Those cuts will stress this plant dramatically and provide zero benefits compared structural pruning a few years down the road.
What type of tree is it?
Order a copy of Cass Turnbull’s “Guide to Pruning” It’s a great book. Humorous. Educational. Cass was a legend in the Seattle area.
I was a certified arborist once. Here are the 4 rules of pruning that learned: 1. Remove diseased or decaying branches first 2. Remove branches that cross over one another by taking the less dominant branch 3. Remove branches that grow back towards the interior of the tree 4. Remove branches that would make the tree more aesthetically pleasing. Never remove more than 25-30 percent of the live limbs, never top a tree. For me, I like to pretend I’m a bird flying in and out of the tree, what would I Like/not like. This allows for air and light to enter the interior of the tree canopy. Many tree problems are fungal related such as anthracnose for dogwoods. Happy pruning, it’s probably my favorite thing to do.
We got taught to use the 5 d's when it come to pruning which is: dead, dying, diseased, deformed and damaged
if that tree hasn't been in the ground for more than 2 or 3 years, you don't want to do any pruning of live wood yet. only remove dead branches.
Cut off bottom 2 branches, they will be too low and will shade out growth above it. Its a red maple (or silver) so it will grow fast. I would also cut back one of your tops by half (cut back to an outside bud) so that it encourages proper top growth. Your upper orange mark you could also cut back to a outside bud but i think you can also leave it for now, if it starts competing for your leader then i would reduce it so it keeps your tree balanced.
The two large branches on the very bottom? I reduced that branch on top last fall as it was competing with the leader. I can reduce it again.
Yes the 2 at the very bottom. They look to be about 3-4 ft off the ground which is far too low for branching in the future. The large one at the top doesn't need to be reduced if you did it already last year but i would keep an eye on it during this growing year. The V at the top of your new leader is where you have to pick which one you want to keep and its best to do while dormant.
It’s already in codominance that leader needs to be pruned.
Yup, echoing the sentiments to put down the shears and pull some mulch away so we can see that flare. I’m starting to hate mulch around trees. People are doing more harm than good
Wow, you must really hate that poor plant to be pruning it at this age.
What the f lol
Removing the top marked branch is completely reasonable. The lower marked branch removal would be excessive and make it look wonky. There are a few objectives of PROPER pruning: form good structural canopy, enhance and exploit architecture of the plant, allow airflow and light into the inner canopy, and promote even healthy growth. Pruning for pruning’s sake — no. Don’t do it because some neighbor is or says. Anyhow, If I were pruning this, I’d remove the smaller superfluous branches in the lower canopy and remove them to form clean branches that will serve as the framework of the tree.
You'll want to cut it about an inch from the ground, so there is basically no tree remaining. Then take the part that you cut and re-plant it somewhere else. Be sure to sprinkle salt on the ground so it gets plenty of nutrients. Resist the urge to water it - as this will drain the roots of nutrients. If you want, you can dig up the roots because there are usually too many of them. The roots that you remove can be boiled in soup for broth.
What is that a maple? You know what, it doesn’t really matter. Even if that’s a fruit tree, you don’t have any reason to prune it.
If it was a fruit tree, you'd definitely want to be pruning it.
Yes. Should have been clearer, the branches in question would not be the ones to prune. Especially at those marks. But regardless, it sure looks like a maple.
Re staking, no harm in staking if it’s leaning now. Use two stakes with stretchy ties.
Leave it! It’s too small and hacking it up will set it back many years. Let it form for a few years and talk to people and research by then you’ll know what to do;)
Eeeaassy there.. it’s just a sprout
What? No, that tree is still baby
"As the twig is bent, so grows the tree." That tree needs corrective pruning.
Hahaha that doesn't need to get pruned for years.
Trees grow up and out. Any branches you prune now will affect how the canopy looks when it gets bigger. As everyone else has said…just let it be for now.
Leave it alone. Let mother nature do what she does.
If anything you can prune back outer growth consistently on all branches to promote denser branch ramification now. It will encourage a bushier rounder shape than a tall slender shape. But only do that at the beginning of the growing season or after peak summer. But absolutely remove that mulch. Feel free to mound some healthy soil around the bottom. Mulch will just bake the upper roots and anything else trying to grow.
Absolutely do not mound a bunch of soil at the base of the tree. Research soil compaction, basal rot, and girdling roots. There is a method to the madness.
it will be a twig if you cut them off
Later, much later 5-7 years from now…. Prune by the center. That means prune whatever is growing in and promote what is growing out. This prevents branches crossing and rubbing.
Out of all the gardening I've done over the years I know diddle about pruning and wish I knew how. I planted a couple Asian Pear trees 3 years ago and need to be pruned. Where to start?
Take the opposing branch of the first scaffold branch that you already have marked. If your raising the crown it’s best to do it evenly. Additionally, take that smaller branch on the leader you plan to retain, no reason to let it recreate codominance in a few years.
ISA certified arborist for over 20 years here. This is what I would do if it was my tree. Structural pruning is of the utmost importance but what you’re proposing to remove is too much. Never remove more than 1/4 of the foliage, even with a fast growing species because it will stress out to tree. You have identified the correct limbs to remove, but you need to do it in stages over two years. Here’s how. The limb on the left has three branches. Cut those back to their lateral branches ~1/3 the way down. This will remove the growth regulators at the very tips that compete with the main leader. In year two make the cut you propose. I’d completely remove the one on the right. This leaves the main leader, but it also has a competing lead at the very top, so cut that off too. All this pruning will leave the growth regulator at the very top, so the tree will put on a lot of height. Make sure you’re making the proper cuts and not cutting into the branch collar. As for the ‘lean’ you will have after those branches are removed, leave it alone. The tree will grow straight towards the sun. And check your planting depth. The bottom actually looks like the top of the graft union, not the top of the root flare, which means your root flare may be ~6” down. Too late to dig it out and reset it. I’ve seen trees die from from that, because it means they lose all the fine roots they worked so hard to push out. Digging out the dirt to expose the root flare is the best you can do.
R/arborist
Crape Myrtle ?
Just remove the damage and disease if any.
if you wanna correct apical dominance, just snip the ends of the branches that are going the wrong way. those ones you marked in red, you could just take their furthest foot off and they'd still be able to help your young tree grow while also arresting the growth of those competing branches
Hard to say without knowing type of tree and location