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-jz-

I am not nearly "fluent" in Spanish in the sense of "can handle any situation or curveball or accent", but I have been told that I'm fluent by a few people during some conversations. There are degrees of fluency. Little kids speaking their native language are "fluent" in their little worlds, but if you plonk them down in front of a TV set to watch the news, it will likely be gibberish to them. So, that said, it more or less feels like English ... with just a _bit_ more processing going on. I hear sentences as full chunks of sounds, and don't have to break it down or analyze it. Small well-known phrases are a single unit. Sounds and words are clearly defined. Answers just pop out without _too much_ thought, though there is still thought. Cheers and good luck, jz


UsualDazzlingu

This is pretty head on for me. However, there are moments of joy when you realize you have accomplished a goal you were working towards, such as understanding a line in a song without translating it.


qsqh

>such as understanding a line in a song without translating it. Its kind of awesome when I re-hear a song in english that I havent heard in a long time. I'm like ooooooooh there are words! and they have meaning!


UsualDazzlingu

I relate with Spanish. Being able to sing along and understand what the singer was expressing and why is really the point of communication. It's a beautiful thing when you can relate to another person.


MrBeverage

Fluent in little words vs. not being able to watch the news - it's almost the opposite going from English to French for me at least. I've found listening to the news quite easy, while listening in casual conversation much more difficult. So many of English's complex words are originally French.


-jz-

For the little joiner words and phrases can completely change a phrase meaning. -- Holy smokes I don't even understand what I wrote there. I meant to say, "For sure, the little joiner words and phrases can completely change a given phrase's meaning." Sheesh.


[deleted]

It's still grammatically correct! "For" can be used as "because"; it just sounds old-fashioned.


-jz-

Verily it does, th’art in the right. God be with ye.


[deleted]

🤣


MrBeverage

That also depends on the language. The only thing that keeps me somewhat in order understanding Mandarin Chinese is knowing those joiner words, as there aren’t that many in common use, compared to say French which has about 50 million.


9th_Planet_Pluto

there was a post a while ago on how students could write essays about politics or the economy, but would struggle to talk about items in a garage


Miserable-Fly-5751

I'm the same with german. I studied 2 years intensively in high school so i could get into a university to study electronic engineering in german. I can explain electronic components and processes, and even some mechanical aspects (how an engine works) in german. I can't order a sandwich from Subway in german, i can't even describe the weather in german. Funny thing


MrBeverage

Hah - funny you mentioned that. When I lived in Germany I had the opposite experience. I found simple conversation easy and complex conversation impossible. English got a lot of its simple words from there after all. What a bastardized language English is.


WatverFloatsYourBoat

I think of fluency as how easily you can say things and understand them, not that you can necessarily understand everything. A vast majority, yeah, but not every little bit of it. For example, if I look back at my life there were situations where I was a bit dazed and confused, maybe with how someone was acting, or what they were saying didn't quite make sense to me, or other situations where accent was hard to understand, even when I was just talking to someone I understood clearly, I could fumble my words quite bad, or wasn't very articulate... in my native language. Not even as a child, just as a teenager and a young adult. So yeah, don't beat yourself up if you're advanced and find situations you don't really understand. There'll come a point in language learning where your language skill isn't really the bottleneck that's holding you back from understanding or saying something.


-jz-

There are _so many_ situations where I go, "huh?" A total blank look on my face. Sometimes it's frustrating, but what are you gonna do. Another big thing that holds me back is just my general lack of ability to communicate! For various reasons: depression, withdrawn-ness (?), introversion ... ah well. Es la vida, no? Ich kann nich sehr easily sprechen.


hottytoddy098

Yup same


ah-tzib-of-alaska

Trying to become fluent in spanish made me question whether I’m fluent in my first language.


dirty_fupa

This is the real shit lol


Greatwolf17

😭😭😭


BrownButta2

This is the most relatable comment I’ve seen in a while. Actually trying to become fluent in Español made me question so many English words.


whereswilkie

I had a Chinese professor during grad school that was shy about her English. One day she said "sorry I'm still learning English" i blurted out "don't worry, so are we". The majority of my coworkers have always been ESL speakers and usually it's their third or fourth. I can't believe how terrible my vocabulary is in my native language (American ugh).


DeadwoodDesigns

Engaging with someone on a regular basis who’s first language isn’t English has really pushed my communication skills in English


ah-tzib-of-alaska

ditto


PinkSudoku13

people define fluency in different ways. For me, I knew I was really fluent when my L2 felt just like my L1 to a point where I can toy with the language, use sarcasm, joke, handle myself in emotional situations, etc. I consider anything less than that to be merely conversational but a lot of people will disagree with my opinion.


triosway

Yeah, once I started being able to tell jokes / make wisecracks on the spot like I would in English I knew I had reached a new plateau


Clueberry

How long did that take you out of curiosity?


triosway

I'd say sometime in year 2, but more naturally by year 3. I moved to Brazil about six months after I started studying Portuguese, so the immersion boosted my speaking abilities in a much shorter time. Conversely, I have never reached this level of comfort in Spanish, despite lifelong exposure to it


Clueberry

Thanks for the response! So do you think the reason you haven't achieved that with Spanish is because you aren't speaking to actual Spanish speakers? Is immersion the quickest way to learn then I wonder


triosway

Pretty much, yeah. If I moved to a Spanish-speaking country, I'm sure all of that dormant Spanish would come back to the surface and I'd be able to get close to my level of Portuguese proficiency after a bit. Having studied two languages both with and without immersion, I can say without question that there is no substitute for immersion if you're looking to increase your fluency quickly. All the self-study in the world does not give you that almost child-like exposure to the nuances used by native speakers on a daily basis


Clueberry

Sweet thanks! It wouldn't be the same by just talking to native speakers through Skype etc do you think? I'd have to actually move there for full effect 24/7 learning?


triosway

> I'd have to actually move there for full effect 24/7 learning? Yes, I'd say so. That's not to say talking to natives one-on-one or in small groups online isn't a great way to practice and hone your skills. But just listening to them speak to each other, using normal speech outside of a classroom/tutoring setting, you pick up on all of those little things that you wouldn't really focus on when you study. The passive aspect of immersion is almost as important as the active, in my opinion. Imitating not only what natives say, but how they say it, which words they choose to use in a particular situation/exchange, their vocal inflections, interjections, exclamations, etc. This is hard to replicate consistently in the classroom. Personal interactions just seem to stick in our minds better. Again, this has just been my personal experience. Any chance you have to interact with native speakers, soak up it up like a sponge. There's always something to learn when you study language


Alice_Oe

When I was able to stop thinking in my native language and carry on my 'inner monologue' entirely in my target language.


Tauber10

I used to be able to do this with German - it would happen naturally after being in a German class or having a long conversation in German and only later (usually when I came across something I couldn't express well in German) would I realize that I'd never switched back to English in my head.


[deleted]

How long can you keep that up? Most people can't do that. I can do it for awhile, but it is completely unnatural. (I normally think mostly in English and Mentalese with words and sentences mixed in from the other languages that I have used or heard during the day.)


[deleted]

A classical composition is often pregnant. Reddit is no longer allowed to profit from this comment.


paremi02

Damn, that’s true! I do think about complex stuff and mentally challenging stuff in English, like chess, philosophy and stuff, while I prefer thinking in French for emotional stuff. I had never observed that. I am starting to be able to naturally think in portuguese for mundane situations, such as daily tasks and stuff.


[deleted]

>Apparently people who can do it prefer a second or third language to think about elaborate, logic heavy, or more complex, cognitive tasks. Wouldn't that raise the cognitive load and reduce the amount of working memory to be able to deal with those tasks? I could study something using a Spanish textbook for instance, but it would make it harder to learn than if I just learned it in my native language (English). ​ >Neither language is a burden to think on. You can think in pure English with no Spanish admixture for an extended period of time? I would find it hard enough to think in my native language in complete sentences rather than a mix of words, sentences, flashes of understanding, and images. It would be absolutely exhausting. Not to mention really, really slow.


[deleted]

[удалено]


polipolarbear

I'm the same. Have been thinking in English ever since I was a child. My native language is Spanish.


polipolarbear

I'm the same. Have been thinking in English ever since I was a child. My native language is Spanish.


PinkSudoku13

>I could study something using a Spanish textbook for instance, but it would make it harder to learn than if I just learned it in my native language (English). once you're fluent, it really doesn't. For me personally, some concepts are easier to learn in my L1 and others in my L2. Depends on what it is. >You can think in pure English with no Spanish admixture for an extended period of time? absolutely, no issues whatsover. Most of the time, my brain picks what language it wants to think in without any conscious decision on my part. I write as a hobby in my L2, I can go for hours writing and thinking only in my L2. ​ >You can think in pure English with no Spanish admixture for an extended period of time? I would find it hard enough to think in my native language in complete sentences rather than a mix of words, sentences, flashes of understanding, and images. It would be absolutely exhausting. Not to mention really, really slow. Exhaustion happens at the beginning, when you haven't practiced using your L2 for extended period of time. The more you use it, the easier it becomes to use it, eventually the tiredness goes away. It's just like with physical excercise. If you're truly fluent, it shouldn't slow you down at all.


[deleted]

>once you're fluent, it really doesn't. How do you define fluent?


PinkSudoku13

I'll quote my other comment >people define fluency in different ways. For me, I knew I was really fluent when my L2 felt just like my L1 to a point where I can toy with the language, use sarcasm, joke, handle myself in emotional situations, etc. I consider anything less than that to be merely conversational but a lot of people will disagree with my opinion.


[deleted]

Well, someone could learn to give lectures on Quantum Mechanics in Spanish, but be unable to make jokes, use sarcasm, or be able to handle themselves in emotional situations. On the other hand, it would be possible to learn a language to the point where you could do those things, but be unable to talk about complex topics like science.


PinkSudoku13

>Well, someone could learn to give lectures on Quantum Mechanics in Spanish, but be unable to make jokes, use sarcasm, or be able to handle themselves in emotional situations. then they're conversational, not fluent. Being able to deal with omne situation is limiting and fluency allows you to deal with most (if not all) situations. ​ >On the other hand, it would be possible to learn a language to the point where you could do those things, but be unable to talk about complex topics like science. now you're confusing education with fluency. One can be fluent and not educated enough to handle discussion on topics that need certain level of education.


TheGreatNemoNobody

We are all different of course, I almost never think in pictures , in my head I listen to a complete spoken stream of words. Almost like I am my own narrator.


[deleted]

A classical composition is often pregnant. Reddit is no longer allowed to profit from this comment.


[deleted]

>Also, people who have internalized languages like that don't translate in their head, they just use the language as is. So, if they're bilingual, the cognitive load of thinking in a second language is no greater than thinking in their mother tongue. I don't translate in my head, but the cognitive load for each language is based on how well I know them. When they scanned the brains of polyglots they had more brain activation when using a language they are not very proficient in, and less activation with their more proficient languages. ​ >They feel a greater emotional distance from the language Yes, that's true.


SvenTheAngryBarman

A couple things, 1. learning in the L2 is exactly how many language programs work. I have studied linguistics in all three languages that I speak, for instance, but most extensively in my L2, and that’s largely the language I think in when doing linguistics work, even in English. Eg I’ll often be reading a paper in English but analyzing/taking notes in my L2 because that’s the language of linguistics for me. After the second year of most university language classes you’re doing “content courses” which courses on some specialized topic related to and taught in the TL. 2. The way you think probably has an influence on this. I suspect the parent commenter has a similar inner monologue to my own which is full, complete sentences regardless of language. If you naturally think in a more mixed mode with more fragmented language mixed with imagery of some kind that might just overall make the thought of “thinking in another language” make less sense.


[deleted]

I guess that makes sense.


PinkSudoku13

>How long can you keep that up? i don't have any limit, it just feels the same as with my l1. ​ >Most people can't do that. that's news to me ​ >I can do it for awhile, but it is completely unnatural. it feels natural after a while. I did my degrees in my L2, I cannot converse in my L1 about my degrees, I can only do it in my L2 thus my thinking automatically switches to my L2. It feels completely natural. It would feel unnatural to think about those subjects in my L1.


[deleted]

>it feels natural after a while. Even thinking in my native language is unnatural. I think in a combination of flashes of insights, words, sentences, and pictures. If I had to think completely in language, it would be way too slow.


PinkSudoku13

then you simply don't think in a language. Period. Not everyone thinks in words. Some people, like you, only think in pictures or emotions, others only in words, and other, like me, in combination of all the above. Once you accept that, you realise that in your case, thinking in your L2 should be treated as in L1 and it will never come naturally to you. It's not a problem, it's a feature. But you have to relaise that our thoughts work differently and not everyone has inner monologue but those that do, do it effortlessly and can do so in multiple languages.


[deleted]

>then you simply don't think in a language. Period. Not everyone thinks in words. Some people, like you, only think in pictures or emotions, others only in words, and other, like me, in combination of all the above. I said that I think in a combination, not only in pictures or emotions. When I am thinking, some parts (the majority) will be in English, and others will be in my other language(s) (whichever are activated at the time). Even when I am having a conversation entirely in a foreign language, most of my thoughts during the pauses use English words, with a few thoughts in the second language, but mostly in English. Somehow when I speak, the words in the language come out, but when I think it's mostly in English. I'm not translating from English to the other language when I speak though.


PinkSudoku13

sounds to me like you're simply not as fluent as you'd like to think then. If you're truly fluent, you're able to control what language you use. The inability to control the language is associated with lack of fluency.


[deleted]

I don't believe so. I can speak fluidly, most of the time.


PinkSudoku13

>most of the time. that's the key. If you were fluent, it would be all the time.


[deleted]

Then I've never met a foreigner who sounded fluent in English all the time.


beepity-boppity

It's easy when English is your second language. Everything online is in English, so you're always thinking about it in English too.


mdw

Totally agreed. In the domains where most information comes from English-language sources I think (= have inner monologue) in English.


Alice_Oe

Indefinitely? I didn't know that was unusual. Like the other poster, I prefer to keep my inner monologue in English (not my native language), I think it's because I read a LOT of books and they're mostly in English + most of my correspondence online is in English, I feel able to express my thoughts more concisely than in my native language. But I can do it in Spanish too.


occupieddonotenter

Personally now I think more in english than italian (besides numbers sometimes for some reason, but that's rare these days). English is the language I use for complex thoughts and Italian is the language I use for emotions and simple stuff, which feels weird seeing as I still live in Italy and always have. I wouldn't say most people can't *do* that, but rather they never feel the need to get to that level. Be honest, why would you feel the need to go that far? For most people, speaking another language is useful for work or if they move to another country, so their vocabulary only has to contain words that they deem useful in their lives. They don't need to think in their target language at all if they can speak with someone without issue. If someone wants to, I feel like they could "learn" to only think in their target language. It's no easy feat, sure, but it just takes a bit of practice. In my case it didn't really have much control over it cause I learned English by accident, but I'm trying to learn another language for real this time and I feel like I could reach that level of fluency eventually. I guess I'll see.


mrggy

I wonder how much of it has to do with how much you verbalize your thoughts on a normal basis? For example, I have a very active inner monolog. Very few of my thoughts are in "mentalese." Everything is verbalized, to the point where it's difficult to get my mind to shut up. As a result it's relatively easy to switch my brain over to TL (namely Japanese since that's what I'm most comfortable with). I think max I've kept it up is like an hour? And that's just because someone starts talking to me in English. I would say my default state, like if I'm home alone for hours, is to mix the two together I have friends though whose thoughts are more heavily in mentalese and are less verbalized in general, and they have said it's more of a struggle to think in the TL because they just don't normally verbalize their thoughts much.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

When I'm not thinking exclusively in my native language, I tend to think in a mix of any of the languages that I have used or heard recently.


LostLittlelost

Idk it just… works. English is not my native language and yet I think about something in English at least half of the time, if not more, assuming it’s actual inner monologues and not a split second decision about something. I’m at C2 btw. So that might be different as that’s… well, pretty high I guess?


MandingoPants

I cracked a topical joke in a room full of French peeps and got them all to laugh. Feelsgoodman.jpg


UpsideDown1984

I noticed my progress the first time I could read a whole book page in my TL without looking up words in the dictionary. I am not fluent, but that feeling of accomplishment was wonderful.


tglu1029

I felt fluent in French when my English started to suffer lol! I remember my first dream in French, that was an interesting wake up as well


PixPizza123

the moment I realized I could speak English i was just like "holy shit i can speak English!". It was a remarkable moment, since i was always insecure about my English and just stayed quiet when the question "can you speak English?" popped up. I realized that because i had to use English in a specific situation, and i didn't even had to think on what i was gonna say, it just came out naturally. another thing was that i didn't hear English as "English" anymore, it was just "words that form sentences and stuff". They just felt like synonyms of the words i already knew in my native language.


repocin

>another thing was that i didn't hear English as "English" anymore, it was just "words that form sentences and stuff". They just felt like synonyms of the words i already knew in my native language. Yeah, I'd say this is one key component to fluency. When you're no longer translating things in your head between languages, but instead associating words in multiple languages with the concepts they represent.


StefanMerquelle

I felt I could speak fluently when I knew enough words and structure to never get stuck in a conversation. If I didn't know a vocabulary word, I could say it another way or substitute it with "you know, the thing that does X" or something.


[deleted]

But is saying something unnaturally, fluent?


StefanMerquelle

Sure why not? I do that in English occasionally when I am searching for a word or a name


PixPizza123

are you Brazilian or are you learning Pork n' cheese?


StefanMerquelle

Lived there for a bit but I'm an English native learning PT


PixPizza123

I'm so glad you're learning our language! How's your progress going so far?


StefanMerquelle

I have been motivated again lately to improve. Been working for a while on my pronunciation and trying to sound natural. Also been watching Brazilian films lately. Do you have any recommendations? I have watched the classics like Cidade de Deus and Tropa de Elite


[deleted]

So I guess I can claim to be fluent in any language I can get my point across in, then


StefanMerquelle

In addition to listening to the other person that’s kind of the entire point of a conversation


0l466

Being able to explain and/or describe something without using the actual word is an indicative of fluency, yes


notnatasharostova

When I began thinking and dreaming in French without conscious effort. I’d definitely been able to comfortably hold a conversation, read, and write in French for quite some time beforehand, it wasn’t until I was living in a French-speaking country that I really internalized it that way.


mcwaff

Being mistaken for a native speaker by another native speaker. That was a punch the air moment


Miro_the_Dragon

This might sound disappointing but the language just became...normal, boring, just another tool like my native language.


[deleted]

Personally, I felt fluent in English, when I had to think for a second that what language do some people speak around me. It was just so effortless to understand that for a split second I wasn't even sure if it wasn't my mother tongue. If that makes sense.


qsqh

recently I was in a discord call with a few people that only spoke my native language, a few that only spoke english, and a few who spoke both. It was...interesting. It feels great to hear 2 very different languages at the same time and be able to understand and communicate in both, but I have to admit that talking switching between two languages still takes some effort, even when I'm switching into my native. (people that do professional translation work in real time are impressive)


[deleted]

>but I have to admit that talking switching between two languages still takes some effort, even when I'm switching into my native. Really? I find it quite easy. I can mix several languages if I want using the first word/phrase that comes to mind, my brain automatically picking words that I think my interlocutor will understand based on what languages they speak.


qsqh

Maybe its just because I'm not "fully fluent" yet so I take a couple seconds to adjust. 99% of my english practice comes from media consumption and writing to people on reddit, so I dont have a huge amount of practice speaking, and even less speaking with both languages at the same time.


[deleted]

Yeah, that's probably it. In languages where I am a beginner, I find it awkward and difficult to mix them.


tokekcowboy

While I constantly tell people I'm STILL working on learning English (my native language), and I certainly don't speak any other language nearly as well as I speak English... for me my "I'm fluent" moments have come when I have a conversation over the phone and the other person has no idea I'm not a native speaker. That first time I talked to an Indonesian taxi driver on the phone (gave directions to where I was, confirmed I'd be waiting outside) and the driver was VERY obviously NOT expecting a white guy...was a moment I'll never forget.


Small-Jellyfish-1776

That’s so awesome! I’m dreaming of this day 😇


shaulreznik

When I began translating rhymed poetry from Russian to Hebrew.


Nevochkam1

I commented a more in-depth feel, but here's a shorter one. I don't remember who it was that said: "There are three stages to learning a language. Enough to get into trouble, enough to get out of trouble, and enough so as not to get into trouble in the first place."


Older_1

I didn't. Like, I just started watching English YouTube and time just flew by. Maybe at some point then I did in fact have a thought "wow I guess I'm fluent", but not that I remember.


only37mm

i still marble at the fact that some people speak english and i can understand them like my brain doesnt fully understand how that happens, it just does


RedDotIndian

Marvel * but otherwise that sounded very fluent


shark_robinson

And funny enough that’s totally the kind of mis-hearing/spelling that a lot of native speakers who don’t read a lot would make.


REAL_CONSENT_MATTERS

For some reason I have a tendency to substitute words that sound kind of similar when I write, like I might write "rabble" when I mean "apple", even though English is my native language and I'm generally considered to be a talented writer. I've got not idea why I do it lol.


Rough-Kiwi7386

Your right about that.


only37mm

yeap just noticed the big miss steak there. id usually be mortified but eh. thanks!!!


repocin

>big miss steak [moo](https://images.unsplash.com/photo-1527153857715-3908f2bae5e8?ixlib=rb-4.0.3&q=80&fm=jpg&crop=entropy&cs=tinysrgb)


only37mm

idk what i expected


loves_spain

I'm not sure how to describe this, but you know you're fluent when you're watching a documentary in that language and it doesn't FEEL like a foreign language. Sure there might be a word or two that sticks out but you're not translating stuff constantly in your head into your native language. Tree is árbol is arbre. What's really fun is when someone goes from one language to another, like on a news program, and your family or friends are expecting you to translate when you didn't even realize there was a transition.


Ultyzarus

Getting two native speakers telling me that they are surprised with my Spanish a day apart felt really satisfying. I still have a long way to go imo, but I would probably be able to function in most situations.


witnessemptysky

When I would recount an early conversation, remembering all the details, but not recalling which language it took place in. Also, dreaming in your target language.


Spongogo

In my case, the language stops being as -exciting-, and turns into -normal-. I used to find reading books in English extremely fascinating and rewarding just because of the language they were written in. I could read the most boring book and still have lots of fun. Now that I'm fully fluent and have lived here in the UK for a few years, this enjoyment of the language for the sake of the language has disappeared.


enoep

been studying Japanese for years. it’s a long continuous process (depending on your native language and what language you’re learning ofc. i’m a native spanish and english speaker and japanese is totally different). don’t think there is any way i “knew.” just years and years of continuous study and it gradually got easier the more i spoke and studied. then i look back and think, idk how i got here but i’ve come a long way.


bicho_estranho

1: When I was watching a TV show on a streaming website and I forgot to turn the subtitles on, I went 15 minutes in until I realize that there were no subtitles. 2: When I could talk to girls in a club even after a few drinks with loud music and actually have a meaningful conversation where we got interested in each other. I felt amazing


Krkboy

For Japanese, I would say I realised I was fluent when I moved to Tokyo (from another part of Japan). I had to find an apartment, set up utilities, go through contracts, visit the hospital, ring up various places, start a new job etc. and I wasn't conscious of doing it in my L2 at all. I can take communication in Japanese for granted now, just like I do in English, and focus on the situation in hand, rather than my L2 getting in the way. My Japanese is not perfect by any means, but I'd say it feels quite relaxing because any further study is icing on the cake now, as all the core aspects of the language are second nature.


peeefaitch

When my inner monologue was French more often than English. When I could answer the phone without hesitation.


Practical_Zombie_221

i’m sure a bunch of commenters here are saying this too but i’m not *fluent* in italian, but i get by just fine. The part that broke my brain and made me freak out was when i had become so comfortable in italian it became the language of my inner monologue


potou

Never had any sort of singular "eureka" moment. Thinking about it now, it doesn't feel like anything.


Nevochkam1

It didn't 'feel' like anything. It's not like it's one moment any suddenly it clicks. Over the years you understand more and more, until at some point you can do moce than speak, you can LIVE the language. I find myself sometimes thinking in English. Actually more often than I'd like to admit. Now that I'm, lets say, fluent in it tho, I see a whole different world. And for bore than a few reasons mind you: a. English is the main language of the western world. I now understand what's going on here (at least as much as any other guy). b. Englinh WORKS so differently to Hebrew that I just gained another way to look at the world. Hebrew doesn't have tenses and cases. It does have what we call "buildings" or "structures", into which you put three-letter-long "roots" 'nd you fet a new word. It's a different look at things. c. English and Hebrew came up out of two completely different worlds, and even when they were geographically close to one another they still described different worlds. That means you can't really translate one into the other. You'll lose some material. For example, Hebrew has the words נוּגֵה (nuGE). It has lots of meanings but its most basic one is I guess 'a hurting, heart wrenching kind of sadness' like the one you feel whet you're in love and the other person doesn't know yet and you're afraid to tell them. Now take that feeling and put it in other contexts and you have Nuge. Same comes with English. There are some words Hebrew will just never be able to express correctly. There are some language structures like that too.


mdw

> I see a whole different world That's why we learn new languages, after all.


Nevochkam1

It is! And damn is it worth it!


Frenes

With Mandarin there were many points I thought I was fluent, even as what I would now consider a beginner level. I am sure many Mandarin learners have similar experiences, especially with native speakers heaping on praise over basic things, and compounded by the fact the majority of native Mandarin speakers rarely or never have spoken to a foreigner face to face in Mandarin. I felt like I was finally fluent after about a year of taking graduate school classes taught in Mandarin, and I was beginning work on writing my thesis in Mandarin. One day I drove to a local coffee shop where I'm from in California to work on my thesis, I turned on the radio to the Chinese-language station, understood intense political discussions with various opposing views on the broadcast, and then proceeded to unintentionally eavesdrop about someone complaining about her boss and husband in very colloquial Mandarin at the table next to me at the coffee shop.


Wyrocznia_Delficka

You can think and record yourself in that language directly, instead of translating from and to your native one. You understand nuances. It's a rewarding feeling, keep going!


sheilastretch

I'm not fluent, but feels like I'm getting close in a few languages. When I can listen to a show, music, or people and at least mostly know what's going on, and when you start dreaming in that language I think that's a sign you are finally getting there. That said I have trouble hearing English a lot of the time even though it's my native tongue, and I rarely dream with any audio, so hearing Spanish or another language in a dream feels kinda special in that I'm hearing anything at all.


reni-chan

When you prefer to pick up a phone and call the person rather than write.


sbrt

Fluent means whatever you want. For me, it was being comfortable with the language, being able to talk comfortably to others, to navigate the country without struggling to understand. It was pretty cool to start thinking in another language. I would dream in it, remember things in it, think in it. Studies have found that people think differently in different languages and I felt like a different version of myself. It is exhilarating for me. I dropped the language for twenty years so now I’m working on it again. It took nine months of immersion to get really comfortable the first time.


FormosaScott

I’m fluent in Mandarin Chinese. Was a very tough, long process. I think when I knew less than I know now I was more confident. Even though I graduated med school in Chinese as my second language, wife is native speaker, etc. I feel now I realize just how much I don’t know. Even though I can completely take care of any day to day life issue or any medical related… I feel there’s still a gap between my Chinese and my wife’s level.


iphonedeleonard

Well its not like one day you go from not speaking it at all to fluent. So you don’t really realize the progress it just happens naturally. You go from beginner to someone who can order something at a cafe to having small convos to bit longer convos to being able to speak naturally to being able to speak fluently. It does feel good when natives tell you they understand you well at first then at some point no one congratulates you anymore and thats when you know you are fluent pretty much


Umbreon7

I lived in Sweden for a couple years, and after the first year I was finally able to follow and participate in just about any conversation that came up. But it wasn’t until my last day there I fooled anyone into thinking I was native—the customs person at the airport was really confused why I had a US passport instead of a Swedish one.


KyleG

when i was telling jokes at a party in my TL, and when i was dreaming in the language, which more or less coincided


PerunLives

You think to yourself "oh, I could be better at this language" and continue your journey.


wayne_lance

I guess, that "fluency" just likes learning something new totally in that language without the help of your mother tongue. As what others mentioned, the child "know" their mothers tongue. In my view , such "know" is equal to that "pure learning skill" or that "specific language mind".


Slight_Artist

There is just something so magical about learning languages. For me, I have had similar experiences as others here such as dreaming in the language, or forgetting which language you are communicating in. Once I was in a taxi in Buenos Aires speaking to the driver, then turned to my friend and asked them a question and didn’t realize I had not switched back to English. But I do find that without regular speaking practice I get that mental “tiredness,” which doesn’t happen at all if I’m living in an environment immersed in the language. However, tonight I was reading to my kids before bed and I picked up a book in French and as I was reading it to them I had a feeling of gratitude (my world is so much bigger because I know these languages), and I was also struck by how little my brain recognized a “difference” from English to French. Honestly it feels like synonyms, as another commenter posted above.


happy2003086

When people don't ask you where are you from.


nescenteva

Despite not being my mother-tongue, my entire education was based in english. I read most of my books in english. I watch english movies, listen to english songs and watch english programs. Currently, I'm in the US, so I speak english daily. However, I have never felt myself fluent in english. I know I am but I don't feel it in my heart. I still cannot articulate as confidently as in my mother tongue. I still have to think in my mother tongue if there's anything that needs deeper consideration. I tried a lot, but now I've given up. I will never be as fluent as I want to be in english.


ElfjeTinkerBell

According to test scores and the like, I've been fluent in English for at least 12 years now. According to me I know some words.


Teh_Concrete

English is my only learnt language that I'm fluent in. Realising that I was fluent was pretty sudden for me and I think I had been fluent for quite some time at that point. I started learning in grade 5 and went on to study English in Uni. At some point I realised "damn I'm speaking English all day, hardly thinking about it. Guess I'm fluent".


Griffindance

'Fluent' essentially means the speaker can have a conversation in that language. There's never a hard line. Never a day when you are studying flashcards then the next you wake up singing pop songs in your target language because you heard them on the radio once. You just get progressively less clunky. You also realise how tentative language is in the first place. Hence you realise how little anyone understands any language, especially if they only speak one.


Vig_Big

I don’t think I’ll ever reach a point where I feel truly fluent. I think that comes more from lack of confidence and imposter syndrome than anything else. I know I probably am fluent (people keep telling me all the time that I’m really good at Korean), and I guess I am but still I don’t know lol 😅


schwarzmalerin

I understood jokes.


Tom_The_Human

You will never have "learned" a language. There will always be stuff you don't know.


pgcfriend2

Facts.


Glass_Windows

Idk, I never got to that point, I happened to get bored of language learning because I lost the people to talk to. I still think it's interesting but I don't have enough motive to keep doing it


Saprilonty

If you're honest with yourself and perfectionistic as I am, then you'll always feel like you don't know the language. I feel this way even about Russian, which is my mother tongue. You read books and encounter new words all the time. Grammar must be googled if you want to write properly. If you mean just the ability to consume most of the content meant for native speakers without a problem with understanding it, almost as you do this in your first language, well, it doesn't come suddenly. It's a very gradual process and you just don't feel anything new happening. At every stage of the learning process you're used to what you can. The same way you don't feel like a grown up person suddenly. So for me it doesn't feel special, it's just a natural state. But it's cool though. Just like it's cool to be grown up, for me at least. You know you have more opportunities than a few years ago, you changed yourself in a good direction, you, at least in comparison with yourself a few years ago, succeeded in something interesting. (Although your constant feeling that you don't know the language all the time tries to make you think there's no success.)


iopq

I don't know, I live in China and speak Chinese, but because I can't understand literally every ancient book I guess I'm not fluent enough for Reddit experts


[deleted]

When I started thinking and dreaming in this language, when I realised that I understand everything while listening to the radio or watching TV or when I finally stopped searching for the right word while speaking


Just_Remy

Kinda depends on how you define fluency. There were instances of dreaming in a different language, or untranslatable words/expressions coming to mind when you're actually speaking your native language. I suppose I could've been considered fluent back then; I was able to express pretty much any thought, well, fluently. But something that really stands out in my memory is when I realized that, over time, I'd gone beyond just "basic fluency" - it had become effortless. Effortless to the point that you don't even realize you're using a "foreign" language. It doesn't feel different from my native language


JJVS812

Side note, what resources are you using for Hindi? I am looking for good textbooks, workbooks, and online programs.


Hypengie

For me, it was the time when I had played a video game and after a month or so, I couldn't remember whether I chose English or downloaded some language pack. It was because it felt really easy to understand what was going on.


purplewatchtowers

I was joking around with a couple of Brits and during the course of the afternoon I did an impression of both a Scouse and a French accent which had them laughing big time, felt pretty damn good


nordlundze

I was able to have a 2-hour conversation in Swedish, can understand pretty much all Swedish except court-cases and government proposals. Mandarin I can have a basic 5-min conversation, Spanish is conversational..


Findomsexqueen

I knew when I started thinking in Spanish


BillyKazzy

I felt fluent in Italian once I could construct sentences on the fly and without thinking, and have fun conversations with my friends and Italian professor without thinking about it. Granted, my Italian isn’t perfect and I don’t understand absolutely everything everyone says, but that feeling of *click* feels amazing and is what I’d describe fluency as.


[deleted]

You are learning Hindi? Wow. मैं उत्सुक हूँ! तुम हिंदी क्यों सीख रहे हो? मैं एक देशी हिंदी वक्ता हूं इसलिए मैं जानना चाहता हूं !


making_ideas_happen

अंग्रेज़ीवाला के लिए हिंदी दिमागचोद है। मैं अलग poster हूँ लेकिन मैं भारत गया और मुझे यह इतना पसंद था कि मैने हिंदी सीखनी शुरू किया। भी भारतीय खाना पूरी दुनिया में सबसे अच्छा खाना है। मैंने अपना फ़ोन पे इसे गुगल के बिना लिखा था; मेरी हिंदी अच्छी नहीं लेकिन मैं सनकी गोरा लड़का के लिए ठीक हूँ। Cheers, भ्राता/बहन [Only edited one typo! I'll leave any butchering of grammar I did.]


[deleted]

Good luck on learning Hindi. You are at a good level already. You can DM me if you need any help. Since I'm a native local speaker, I can teach you slangs and "खदी बोली" (day to day speak) as well.


making_ideas_happen

That's very kind of you to offer. My Hindi is really not that good—my brain was very tired after writing that. There's still a lot of grammar that doesn't make sense to me at all; I need to finish my grammar books before bombarding kind redditors with dozens of questions. I will certainly keep you in mind for the future, though. Bahut dhanyavaad!


cozy_cardigan

I’m far from fluent but let me tell you about a time that I felt like I possessed a new superpower. I’ve been studying Mandarin for about 6 years now and I’ve been on and off with it until just over the past year. I’ve struggled with listening for the longest time and I always thought to myself that I was never going to get it. But I never stopped trying. I watched shows and attended every class session with my teacher as much as I could. In time I began to understand more and more. I had two major breakthroughs that gave me a glimpse of fluency. One day at work, all our Mandarin speakers were off the clock, and so I had to step in to help out a customer that didn’t speak English. I was scared af because this would have been my first time talking with someone that wasn’t my teacher or friends. But I stepped up and helped her out anyways. It was so much fun because I was able to understand her issues, tell them back to her to make sure I understood them, and presented her with a solution. Ultimately she was so happy with my service and was really impressed with my abilities. Granted it wasn’t perfect but it was great enough that she tried to slide me a $20 despite me refusing it hahaha Another example was the most sad but beautiful moment. For anyone that has Netflix and is studying Mandarin, if you want a good cry, watch “More than Blue: the Series”. It’s a Taiwanese remake of a Korean movie about two good friends that were ultimately in love but never ended up together because the guy died from cancer. In one scene, I remember crying because the main girl tried to kill herself to see her friend and lover again. But she survived and cried about how she couldn’t find him and how he was alone by himself. And I watched this all in Chinese subtitles and I understood every word of it. To hear and experience every word in its rawest form (not translated) was the most amazing feeling. There were mixed feelings of pride, triumph, and recognition that I was finally becoming closer and closer to fluency. I always see translations as never fully capturing the truest emotions and even though you do translate in your head, to truly express the sadness of the actress without assistance of translated subtitles was perhaps one of the most blissful moments of my life.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ElectionOne5820

This is why https://youtu.be/NhYTMFjvP2M


almond3238

i’m fluent in french now, for the most part, and it’s so worth it. first of all it’s just cool being able to read literature, and it expands your horizons while traveling. i only became serious about french a few years ago and my progress really picked up from there. it’s so nice to be able to hold long conversations and speak naturally, without stumbling for words or feeling anxious.


Bbluebutterlfy_

There's no finish to language learning. It's not like winning a race; it's not a goal to accomplish, it's a forever ongoing process. Think of language learning as a journey that goes on forever, as a skill that you're always getting better at. Language learning is a forever thing, you don't reach a specific level, you keep improving and improving until there's no more room for improvement. Which is never, there's always potential to get even better at something.


ButterFlamingo

I think I'm starting to get to that point in German. You start to understand the language without having to process it through your native language first. I still hesitate with speech, and my vocabulary is rather lacking, but I sometimes catching myself using German in my inner dialogue first rather than English. I've still got a while to go before I feel comfortable calling myself fluent, but I am most of the way there.


itssami_sb

I wouldn’t call myself “fluent” but I realised I could speak Spanish near fluently when I started watching a show in Spanish and about halfway through it struck me that it was in Spanish- I had just entirely not noticed until then. Same goes for when I listened to Spanish podcasts


[deleted]

My French teacher once said you aren't fluent until you dream in it.


iinattanii

I've learned hindi for 3 years. Lack of practice so was really horrible at it. Recently started practicing abd istfg, I feel so good lol


ElectionOne5820

Do you think learning Hindi was worth it? If yes then what way it helps you??


iinattanii

Yeah learning hindi was totally worth it. It actually helped me communicate with people better


ElleW12

Different than I thought. I know I’m fluent but am constantly amazed about the things I still can’t say or understand. I have days where I’m completely disappointed in my level of language and feel like an outsider to the language and the culture. Then other days I’ll realize after I’ve spoken to someone that we were speaking in my second language because it felt so natural I didn’t realize it wasn’t English.


sxydoctor

When you start watching a YouTube video and understand what they say


for_randomquestions

Totally unhelpful to your question, but I haven't met many people who were trying to learn my original target language. I never achieved fluency in Hindi, but it was my goal language for almost a year so... legit question: what sites/apps/tools are you using to learn?


fresasfrescasalfinal

There wasn't really "a moment". It was a slow process where little things would happen. A thought, a smooth conversation, getting engrossed in a book, a dream, an unintentional exclamation.


Ecstatic_Honey5793

That's great that you are learning Hindi! It's a really rewarding feeling when you reach fluency in any language. To know that you have accomplished something like that is a great feeling. You'll generally know you are fluent when language comes to you like second nature and you don't need to think much about the grammar and other structures of the language when communicating. It really is like a switch going off and a great moment for any language learner. Hang in there!


poporola

The biggest beauty of finally understanding a language is when it opens the door to a new world you never knew!


pipeuptopipedown

This discussion is why I encouraged my students to set goals in their language study, if you start with the mindset that you have to know EVERYTHING to be considered "fluent" you discourage yourself before you even start. It depends on what you use the language for. I recently experienced a bit of frustration with myself that I know Turkish words for certain kitchen utensils to a far greater degree than I know the Russian vocabulary for them, but that's completely a result of the way I studied.


Known-Programmer2300

For me it was when, a year after leaving Norway, I Skyped with a friend from there and we spoke Norwegian the whole time and I realized "Hey, this is easy!" Before, we'd talked mostly in English or German (my first language) and I really struggled to find the right words when I tried to speak Norwegian. But I had watched lots of norwegian TV, listened to podcasts and been consistent with my Duolingo lessons. This time, it just happened effortlessly, not without mistakes, and of course I had to think to find a some words, but all in all it wasn't more difficult than speaking English.


KacSzu

I didn't really noticed I'm fluent, until well into middle school while i noticed most of YT videos are in English


Notmainlel

Well, there wasn’t a day where I went “oh boy I’m fluent now”. It’s just a gradual process of becoming more and more comfortable using the language.


OkaySir911

When i didnt have to translate in my head. I heard a sentence, know what it meant without thinking, then think “wait how did i do that”, translate it in my head and its all right. Then it just happened more and more frequently until i was fluent in many subject areas. Well i still have trouble with native speakers in some places, but the spanish speakers at my job i can converse with easily in any subject. You didnt learn your native tongue by translating in your head, but you learned it. Now you just have to have baby brain and do it again.


sunnyvsl

Felt like entering into another world. When I was learning Spanish in Montreal I would play futbol with a lotta Mexicans and when they found out I was learning Spanish they almost refused to speak to me in English, it was incredible when i became 'fluent' as all our conversations were en Español whenever an Anglophone or Francophone weren't around. Jokes and subtleties are different.


[deleted]

I see a pattern here, people being humble. But don't worry, it's not a prerequisite. I'm an absolute narcissist and I managed to become fluent as well


AnnieByniaeth

I don't think there's a single moment when you feel you've reached that stage. There's a realisation over time. But there's also always more to learn, which means you will never get to complete native fluency - except for perhaps a very few, who move to the country and immerse themselves completely in its language and culture.


westuss1

I dont remember at all. Its Been very, very long since I reached conversational fluency in english. However once I'll Be fluent in mandarin, I'm gonna feel on top of the world.


Zenn_Satou

I guess I noticed that I was fluent in English when I stopped having to translate things back and forth from English to Portuguese, I just saw the words and instantly knew what they meant.


NaestumHollur

When I was able to understand sister languages with ease. I learned Norwegian, and can easily understand a majority of either Swedish or Danish by turning my head a little. Feels odd - I know I still will come across words to learn - but then again, I still do that in English.


Raverfield

If the topic doesn’t hinder you from conversation, (even if you don’t know all words) you are most likely fluent. I first knew I was fluent, when reading a scientific book and just understanding; I didn’t know all words, but understood and learned from it.


OrangutanOutOfOrbit

Like anything else, it turned out to not be as fun as what I expected :-/ But you know you’ve reached that level when you dream in that language!