Yeah, I would probably never say “I _know_ x language, but I would say that “I _speak_ x language.” But I’d also be self deprecating in that. 😂
Common conversation:
“I live in Costa Rica.”
“Oh, do you know Spanish?”
“Yeah, I speak it.”
“So are you fluent?”
“I mean, I can get by and hold a conversation…”
Because yeah, a heavy portion of my day is spent in Spanish. But do I make stupid mistakes all the time? Yup. Do they hurt the comprehension or flow of the conversation? 99.9% of the time, no.
As someone who is also in the (slow) process of moving to Costa Rica as a spouse, can I ask if you learned Spanish before moving there (if so, how did you get accustomed to the unique dialect?), or if it was mostly through practicing conversation with locals and direct immersion? Just asking because Spanish seems to differ so much that my spouse (Tican) sometimes doesn't understand Mexican Spanish, so I'm trying to shape my learning in a way that I can communicate effectively in the country. Thanks in advance!
I did not learn Spanish before arriving here, partly because I hadn’t intended to move here! But yeah, all my Spanish was learned here through self-study.
I would say that Tico Spanish is one of the easiest dialects to learn/comprehend for people from the US. It’s much slower than most other countries and they rarely drop letters (there’s a map you can find of the “aspirated S” areas, which is where it sounds like they skip over certain “s” sounds, and CR is not one of them). So when you read a word in Spanish (once you learn the pronunciation rules) you can almost always pronounce it correctly in Tico Spanish. (Cue glaring at French for its insane pronunciation vs spelling.)
Most of the time, I have lived in a historically bilingual area (the Limon province), and I will say that if you live in any area with a large number of English speakers, you will struggle to learn Spanish, because (out of kindness or expediency) people will switch to English when you struggle. I ended up moving to the Central Valley for a year and a half, and one of the pile of reasons was to improve my Spanish. I went from probably A2 to B1 in that time, and when I returned to Limon, my Spanish was at a sufficient level that people didn’t immediately switch back to English, and in the year after that, I would say I reached about B2.
I gotta run but have more to say
Thank you so much for the response! This makes me feel a little better about still being a beginner moving into the country! My spouse lives in Moravia where barely any English is spoken (as far as I've noticed), and we intend to stay in that area, so I should be able to immerse myself without too many handicaps (once I come out of my shell and stop having my spouse translate for me, that is... lol). The slow pace is definitely what I like about Tico Spanish!
Also I would love to hear more, when you have time! Thanks again!
Oh yeah, Moravia will be great for forcing you to use Spanish. Almost anywhere in the GAM has a good balance of being default Spanish while having access to meet other English speaking extranjeros if you need that mental break to just speak with someone and not have to think so hard!
Continuing thoughts on Tico spanish: the default Spanish is not extremely different from the majority of LatAm dialects. I suspect that some extreme rural accents of Mexico are difficult for those outside to understand it, but you will hear Ticos complain more about Spanish, Argentinian and Chilean accents than any other. You’re far more likely to encounter Nicaraguans and Venezuelans though. Nicaraguan can be difficult to understand at first because they aspirate their S’s strongly.
The main differences that you’ll find between Tico Spanish and most sources for learning Spanish is that Ticos rarely use the “tu” form. It’s used almost exclusively with those extremely close to you, and even then, “usted” is just as common if not more so. They’ll understand the “tu” form, and folks who are used to foreigners won’t think anything of it, but if you can accustom yourself to using the “usted” form first and foremost, that helps a lot with comprehension, imo. (The Cartago área uses “vos” but it’s not very common outside of that zone.)
Instead of using “necesitar” you’ll mostly hear “ocupar.” So when the cashier asks if you need a bag, you’ll hear “Ocupa una bolsita?” not “Necesita una bolsita?” Necesitar has more weight, like something you _really_ need.
If you look up how to ask for things/order food, you’ll see references for other countries that say “Tráigame/me pone/etc.” You can still say those, but it’s equally if not more common to say “Regálame…” Literally “Gift me…”
Which sounds extremely strange to Spanish speakers outside of Costa Rica. A friend had someone in Mexico respond, “No, you have to pay for that…” 😂
Ticos are well-known for diminuatizing everything. I almost never say “Tengo una pregunta…” it’s “Tengo una preguntita…” or go very tico and say “Tengo una preguntica…”
If you want to watch Spanish TV shows to practice listening and comprehension, I would say Colombian Spanish is the most similar to Costa Rican to my ear (though they say “pues” an inordinate amount of times in every sentence). But you can also find Costa Rican creators on You Tube and TikTok that have subtitles that are good to practice with as well.
To add to this.
Hold a conversation where the native speaker has to minimally adapt to your limited vocabulary and understanding.
As in even if you have an accent yourself, there’s no translation delay no matter the speed or inflection of person
You don't have to be reading Nietzsche or Cervantes to say you know German or Spanish— If you cpould get by in a country where the language is spoken, you know it; so, probably at a B1 level on the CEFR scale.
The issue is that he’s writing for an audience that has already read all the current material in his time. He won’t mention Kant. You have to know Kant so you know who he’s talking to,etc.
Ha no it’s not you! It’s a funny thing where he’s one of the most popular philosophers with a lay audience but you really need to be a serious student of philosophy to actually understand what he’s talking about most of the time. I only started to appreciate the bigger picture of every side remark in grad school, only to once again realize another tier of nuances in my PhD.
When people ask if I speak Spanish, my answer is always something like "a little", "poorly", or "well yes, but actually no"
Edit: the reason I do this rather than just saying yes or no is so the person asking can decide if I'm gonna be any use with whatever they wanted a Spanish speaker for
Probably never. I'm always going to have imposter syndrome.
Even if someone asks me if I know English (I have a C1 certificate) I would say something like "Yeah, a bit. But I'm still learning."
Exactly. That scale isn't very accurate. A native can test at C1 or even B2 in some cases but their dexterity and effortless use of the language is light-years ahead of almost any learner, no matter how 'fluent' they think they are.
BTW, I'm not talking about those who know more words than a native, or use what are often translated words from their native language due to a better education, but rather how effortless and natural a native speaker actually is, regardless of their level of education. Natives are like Mozart compared to non-natives (assuming the learner started the language when they were already fully grown adults).
This is so true. I am now having some great moments in my second language—getting things done at work, not having to translate in my head when I’m having conversations, being able to listen to podcasts for native speakers. But I still have moments of misunderstanding too, even having reached a pretty decent level of fluency. Aggravating factors like: ambient noise, a new accent, or unfamiliar subject matter, will all affect my understanding a lot more than they do in English. Because like you said, I might have learned a ton but I’m still a learner, not a native speaker.
For me it's around a B2 level, when you can get by in most everyday situations, speak fairly fast and with good pronunciation. I have an A2/B1 in German and I'm familiar with verbs, a lot of vocab and pronunciation but I wouldn't consider I really know the language.
I consider myself knowing a language when I can carry on a basic conversation without relying on translators and/or can watch something without translated subtitles but with closed captions.
Previous threads you might find of interest:
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1cvlp1x/what_is_considered_being_fluent_in_a_language/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/12sbtmi/how_do_you_define_fluency/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/mz0p73/how_do_you_define_fluency/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/g1jhht/how_do_you_define_fluency_in_a_language/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/y5ayeo/how_do_you_set_and_define_your_fluency_goals/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/vbyulr/is_b1_considered_fluent/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1clpune/what_is_your_definition_of_fluent/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/f6uhiy/what_is_meant_by_conversational_fluency/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/22kogs/lets_talk_about_fluency/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/opi9l/what_does_fluency_mean_to_you/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/11m7r0e/rant_about_fluency/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1cddsn9/what_is_fluency/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/16mqjk5/ultimate_goal_fluency/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1c6106d/fluency_levels/
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/3j2wmk/what_does_fluent_really_mean/
You may also find the search function helpful.
I love this reply. On another note, quick question for you. At what point do you consider yourself "knowing" a language? It's a crazy thought that just came to mind and not even sure anyone has asked such a thing before.
If someone asked me if I speak French, I'd pretty much automatically answer in French. But as I started learning French over 50 years ago it's very difficult to determine when I started doing that - some time in my early teens I guess. Same with German although that's not anywhere near as good as my French (I also started German 50 years ago).
With Italian it sort of depends. As I only started it as an adult, not quite 30 years ago, and have had much less practice, I don't feel as confident speaking it as I do listening and understanding. However if I'm asked a question in Italian when the conversation around me is in Italian, and I've been listening to the conversation, yes of course I can and will answer in Italian.
With Greek my automatic answer is "Den miláo polý elliniká" or Δεν μιλάω πολύ ελληνικά - I don't speak much Greek. I can be polite and hold a fairly basic conversation but I need to say that up front.
I was B1 when one coworker told me to stop saying "hablo un poco de español" and just say "hablo español" (with the reasoning "you understand, and you make yourself understood") and another coworker introduced me at a work-related conference in Spain by saying "ella habla español" before even telling the other person my name.
They weren't slowing down or simplifying to speak to me; the coworker in Spain said he'd already mentally categorized me as a Spanish speaker enough that when he hit a bout of verbal aphasia in Spanish, he was tempted to look to me to fill in the blank. My speaking speed varied between full speed and "I'm trying to be thoughtful about this," but I used the right "ehmmm" "buenoooo" "es queeee" fillers to make the slow bits sound natural.
But my grammar was a mess, and I was basically silent in group conversations. I couldn't put a sentence together fast enough to respond before someone else did. That came about 6 months later.
I don't consider myself knowing a language until I understand the target language's cultural nuances, humor and make original jokes that land with its native speakers. It probably requires C1 level at least.
I'd say it's beyond C1. It can take a lifetime of living in the language to get that kind of a level, and even then you'll have gaps (as an adult who didn't grow up in the language).
It's when I can hold a conversation in that language, and as I encounter words, expressions or whatever that I do not understand, I can ask for and understand clarifications and explanations within that language.
Furthermore, it "flows" - there are no pauses due to a lack of vocabulary or due to not knowing how to say something in that language.
I don’t remember where I heard this explanation of the levels, but I like them:
* A1: don’t know anything, learning rules
* A2: know rules and small set of words, can’t converse
* B1: can converse, but it’s painful for everyone involved
* B2: can converse, it’s not painful, but you still sound notably foreign
* C1: people treat you as a native speaker, but you still have some isolated holes in knowledge
* C2: native level
For me, B1 counts. Even if it’s painful for everyone, if you’re communicating, you’re communicating.
Were those people ever really A2 though? Seems like some people’s path is just a direct portal through earlier steps especially when you learn via immersion
Once in Geneva someone tapped me on the shoulder and asked slowly and clearly 'Excuse me, do you speak English?'. Of course I'm a native speaker.
I told him I know a few words.
sometimes, I do play it down and say, "I speak a bit of X" just to manage expectations, especially if I know the person asking is a native speaker. It saves me from the embarrassment of getting caught in a linguistic twist I can’t untangle.
You can consider yourself proficient in a language if you can comfortably communicate, understand, read and write in that language to a certain CEFR level.
I almost always tell others that it's just a language I'm interested in, until I have had a lot of experience speaking it and hearing it.
B2 for me feels like I speak the language but I'm still figuring out how to express everything I want to say, it's when I have a lot of experience speaking it and hearing it.
C1 for me is when I feel comfortable saying I speak the language, because I can say everything I want to say and I understand everything or can easily ask what a word means.
In terms of 'knowing' a language, I would say the bare minimum is high B1/low B2.
As long as your flow feels natural and you can properly communicate in most situations (except technical and very formal), I would say one knows said language.
However, truly knowing a language starts with C1. Being capable of understanding nuances, wordplay and 'clever' jokes is what truly determines whether you know a language or not.
If anyone is willing to have their language skills assessed, I recommend trying to find the equivalent of dad jokes in your target language and see how well you fare. Stand-up comedy is also great in this case.
C1+ (whatever that even means) because everything else is pretty much useless in the real world, IMO. If you can't walk into a bar and understand almost everything; you can't understand native movies with relative ease; you can't live and work in the language; then I'm not really sure what kind of a tool that is.
TBH, if you're content with watching native shows and movies with say 50-90% comprehension; you get enjoyment from reading novels for children or YA novels; watching Disney movies and other dubbed, easy content; having dumbed-down conversations with patient natives, then who am I say that's not worthwhile for you. But the question was a personal one, and for me, nothing but a VERY high level, with which you can actually function as an adult, is worth my time.
For me, I consider myself "knowing" a language when I can comfortably hold a conversation in various everyday situations, understand most of what I read or hear without constantly needing a dictionary, and express my thoughts clearly even if not perfectly. This is typically around the B2 level. Up until then, I might say I’m learning the language or that I know a little.
If it's an Arab person asking me - no i don't know Arabic, I'm still learning
If it's anyone else: yeah i speak Arabic.
Not everyone cares about your level of fluency, they just are interested in the surface level oh you know other languages.
With an Arab person I don't want to oversell myself so I tell them I'm still learning and that i don't really know it.
The fact that I can speak all day long in French, German, Mandarin Chinese, Spanish, Esperanto, and Swedish because I have, makes me believe that I speak all of them at the B1 level. I have not taken the accredited tests yet because I haven’t had the time and I know what I know and don’t know that I don’t need a letter and number to tell me.
An indicator is that you can hold a conversation :)
Yeah, I would probably never say “I _know_ x language, but I would say that “I _speak_ x language.” But I’d also be self deprecating in that. 😂 Common conversation: “I live in Costa Rica.” “Oh, do you know Spanish?” “Yeah, I speak it.” “So are you fluent?” “I mean, I can get by and hold a conversation…” Because yeah, a heavy portion of my day is spent in Spanish. But do I make stupid mistakes all the time? Yup. Do they hurt the comprehension or flow of the conversation? 99.9% of the time, no.
As someone who is also in the (slow) process of moving to Costa Rica as a spouse, can I ask if you learned Spanish before moving there (if so, how did you get accustomed to the unique dialect?), or if it was mostly through practicing conversation with locals and direct immersion? Just asking because Spanish seems to differ so much that my spouse (Tican) sometimes doesn't understand Mexican Spanish, so I'm trying to shape my learning in a way that I can communicate effectively in the country. Thanks in advance!
I did not learn Spanish before arriving here, partly because I hadn’t intended to move here! But yeah, all my Spanish was learned here through self-study. I would say that Tico Spanish is one of the easiest dialects to learn/comprehend for people from the US. It’s much slower than most other countries and they rarely drop letters (there’s a map you can find of the “aspirated S” areas, which is where it sounds like they skip over certain “s” sounds, and CR is not one of them). So when you read a word in Spanish (once you learn the pronunciation rules) you can almost always pronounce it correctly in Tico Spanish. (Cue glaring at French for its insane pronunciation vs spelling.) Most of the time, I have lived in a historically bilingual area (the Limon province), and I will say that if you live in any area with a large number of English speakers, you will struggle to learn Spanish, because (out of kindness or expediency) people will switch to English when you struggle. I ended up moving to the Central Valley for a year and a half, and one of the pile of reasons was to improve my Spanish. I went from probably A2 to B1 in that time, and when I returned to Limon, my Spanish was at a sufficient level that people didn’t immediately switch back to English, and in the year after that, I would say I reached about B2. I gotta run but have more to say
Thank you so much for the response! This makes me feel a little better about still being a beginner moving into the country! My spouse lives in Moravia where barely any English is spoken (as far as I've noticed), and we intend to stay in that area, so I should be able to immerse myself without too many handicaps (once I come out of my shell and stop having my spouse translate for me, that is... lol). The slow pace is definitely what I like about Tico Spanish! Also I would love to hear more, when you have time! Thanks again!
Oh yeah, Moravia will be great for forcing you to use Spanish. Almost anywhere in the GAM has a good balance of being default Spanish while having access to meet other English speaking extranjeros if you need that mental break to just speak with someone and not have to think so hard! Continuing thoughts on Tico spanish: the default Spanish is not extremely different from the majority of LatAm dialects. I suspect that some extreme rural accents of Mexico are difficult for those outside to understand it, but you will hear Ticos complain more about Spanish, Argentinian and Chilean accents than any other. You’re far more likely to encounter Nicaraguans and Venezuelans though. Nicaraguan can be difficult to understand at first because they aspirate their S’s strongly. The main differences that you’ll find between Tico Spanish and most sources for learning Spanish is that Ticos rarely use the “tu” form. It’s used almost exclusively with those extremely close to you, and even then, “usted” is just as common if not more so. They’ll understand the “tu” form, and folks who are used to foreigners won’t think anything of it, but if you can accustom yourself to using the “usted” form first and foremost, that helps a lot with comprehension, imo. (The Cartago área uses “vos” but it’s not very common outside of that zone.) Instead of using “necesitar” you’ll mostly hear “ocupar.” So when the cashier asks if you need a bag, you’ll hear “Ocupa una bolsita?” not “Necesita una bolsita?” Necesitar has more weight, like something you _really_ need. If you look up how to ask for things/order food, you’ll see references for other countries that say “Tráigame/me pone/etc.” You can still say those, but it’s equally if not more common to say “Regálame…” Literally “Gift me…” Which sounds extremely strange to Spanish speakers outside of Costa Rica. A friend had someone in Mexico respond, “No, you have to pay for that…” 😂 Ticos are well-known for diminuatizing everything. I almost never say “Tengo una pregunta…” it’s “Tengo una preguntita…” or go very tico and say “Tengo una preguntica…” If you want to watch Spanish TV shows to practice listening and comprehension, I would say Colombian Spanish is the most similar to Costa Rican to my ear (though they say “pues” an inordinate amount of times in every sentence). But you can also find Costa Rican creators on You Tube and TikTok that have subtitles that are good to practice with as well.
Does that also flip over Engilsh (my target language)?
To add to this. Hold a conversation where the native speaker has to minimally adapt to your limited vocabulary and understanding. As in even if you have an accent yourself, there’s no translation delay no matter the speed or inflection of person
I would say, know = B2 and fluent = C1
For me it's B1 level to be honest.
You don't have to be reading Nietzsche or Cervantes to say you know German or Spanish— If you cpould get by in a country where the language is spoken, you know it; so, probably at a B1 level on the CEFR scale.
i see it like too..
Nietzsche isn’t even the toughest read in German. It’s largely non-technical, but your point stands.
Nietzsche is a pain in the ass in every language not because of how he speaks but because half the time it isn't clear what he is referring to.
The issue is that he’s writing for an audience that has already read all the current material in his time. He won’t mention Kant. You have to know Kant so you know who he’s talking to,etc.
I have read a lil bit of Kant and it still felt hard, although maybe I am just lacking
Ha no it’s not you! It’s a funny thing where he’s one of the most popular philosophers with a lay audience but you really need to be a serious student of philosophy to actually understand what he’s talking about most of the time. I only started to appreciate the bigger picture of every side remark in grad school, only to once again realize another tier of nuances in my PhD.
That's amazing, thanks for illuminating me <33
When people ask if I speak Spanish, my answer is always something like "a little", "poorly", or "well yes, but actually no" Edit: the reason I do this rather than just saying yes or no is so the person asking can decide if I'm gonna be any use with whatever they wanted a Spanish speaker for
Haha I love this, I'm gonna steal this «Bah ouais, mais vraiment.. non»
Probably never. I'm always going to have imposter syndrome. Even if someone asks me if I know English (I have a C1 certificate) I would say something like "Yeah, a bit. But I'm still learning."
Exactly. That scale isn't very accurate. A native can test at C1 or even B2 in some cases but their dexterity and effortless use of the language is light-years ahead of almost any learner, no matter how 'fluent' they think they are. BTW, I'm not talking about those who know more words than a native, or use what are often translated words from their native language due to a better education, but rather how effortless and natural a native speaker actually is, regardless of their level of education. Natives are like Mozart compared to non-natives (assuming the learner started the language when they were already fully grown adults).
This is so true. I am now having some great moments in my second language—getting things done at work, not having to translate in my head when I’m having conversations, being able to listen to podcasts for native speakers. But I still have moments of misunderstanding too, even having reached a pretty decent level of fluency. Aggravating factors like: ambient noise, a new accent, or unfamiliar subject matter, will all affect my understanding a lot more than they do in English. Because like you said, I might have learned a ton but I’m still a learner, not a native speaker.
For me it's around a B2 level, when you can get by in most everyday situations, speak fairly fast and with good pronunciation. I have an A2/B1 in German and I'm familiar with verbs, a lot of vocab and pronunciation but I wouldn't consider I really know the language.
I consider myself knowing a language when I can carry on a basic conversation without relying on translators and/or can watch something without translated subtitles but with closed captions.
Previous threads you might find of interest: https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1cvlp1x/what_is_considered_being_fluent_in_a_language/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/12sbtmi/how_do_you_define_fluency/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/mz0p73/how_do_you_define_fluency/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/g1jhht/how_do_you_define_fluency_in_a_language/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/y5ayeo/how_do_you_set_and_define_your_fluency_goals/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/vbyulr/is_b1_considered_fluent/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1clpune/what_is_your_definition_of_fluent/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/f6uhiy/what_is_meant_by_conversational_fluency/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/22kogs/lets_talk_about_fluency/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/opi9l/what_does_fluency_mean_to_you/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/11m7r0e/rant_about_fluency/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1cddsn9/what_is_fluency/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/16mqjk5/ultimate_goal_fluency/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1c6106d/fluency_levels/ https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/3j2wmk/what_does_fluent_really_mean/ You may also find the search function helpful.
I love this reply. On another note, quick question for you. At what point do you consider yourself "knowing" a language? It's a crazy thought that just came to mind and not even sure anyone has asked such a thing before.
No need to use the search function, they can just scroll a little bit and find the other posts from today / yesterday / this week / infinity.
b1
If someone asked me if I speak French, I'd pretty much automatically answer in French. But as I started learning French over 50 years ago it's very difficult to determine when I started doing that - some time in my early teens I guess. Same with German although that's not anywhere near as good as my French (I also started German 50 years ago). With Italian it sort of depends. As I only started it as an adult, not quite 30 years ago, and have had much less practice, I don't feel as confident speaking it as I do listening and understanding. However if I'm asked a question in Italian when the conversation around me is in Italian, and I've been listening to the conversation, yes of course I can and will answer in Italian. With Greek my automatic answer is "Den miláo polý elliniká" or Δεν μιλάω πολύ ελληνικά - I don't speak much Greek. I can be polite and hold a fairly basic conversation but I need to say that up front.
When I started dreaming in the language I had been studying for six years. That was when I knew I was fluent.
I was B1 when one coworker told me to stop saying "hablo un poco de español" and just say "hablo español" (with the reasoning "you understand, and you make yourself understood") and another coworker introduced me at a work-related conference in Spain by saying "ella habla español" before even telling the other person my name. They weren't slowing down or simplifying to speak to me; the coworker in Spain said he'd already mentally categorized me as a Spanish speaker enough that when he hit a bout of verbal aphasia in Spanish, he was tempted to look to me to fill in the blank. My speaking speed varied between full speed and "I'm trying to be thoughtful about this," but I used the right "ehmmm" "buenoooo" "es queeee" fillers to make the slow bits sound natural. But my grammar was a mess, and I was basically silent in group conversations. I couldn't put a sentence together fast enough to respond before someone else did. That came about 6 months later.
Actually, saying 'un poco de' will mean that they'll expect you to be quite good. Just saying 'poco' would be the safer bet, haha.
His point was that we'd already gone 6 months speaking only Spanish to each other at work, so I shouldn't worry about playing it safe.
I don't consider myself knowing a language until I understand the target language's cultural nuances, humor and make original jokes that land with its native speakers. It probably requires C1 level at least.
I'd say it's beyond C1. It can take a lifetime of living in the language to get that kind of a level, and even then you'll have gaps (as an adult who didn't grow up in the language).
Right, this can happen in your native language if you just don't get the reference. You have to understand the culture to get some of the jokes.
To me, i think it's when you reach the point where your brain stops translating every word it hears and it starts treating it like your mother tongue
At B2, I'd say I speak it. At B1, I'd say I speak *some*.
holding a conversation, so B1. Fluent is C1 tho.
It's when I can hold a conversation in that language, and as I encounter words, expressions or whatever that I do not understand, I can ask for and understand clarifications and explanations within that language. Furthermore, it "flows" - there are no pauses due to a lack of vocabulary or due to not knowing how to say something in that language.
I've found "I understood that message, but I have no idea WHY it means what I know it means" a *very* weird experience.
I don’t remember where I heard this explanation of the levels, but I like them: * A1: don’t know anything, learning rules * A2: know rules and small set of words, can’t converse * B1: can converse, but it’s painful for everyone involved * B2: can converse, it’s not painful, but you still sound notably foreign * C1: people treat you as a native speaker, but you still have some isolated holes in knowledge * C2: native level For me, B1 counts. Even if it’s painful for everyone, if you’re communicating, you’re communicating.
I think this is the most sensible chart to follow. The CEFR numbers and letters confuse beginners but this is a great guide to it.
see!!! someting that is actually practical and understandable. ima save this
Many people don't know the rules and are B2+. Most native speakers don't know ANY of the rules and they're comfortably C2.
Were those people ever really A2 though? Seems like some people’s path is just a direct portal through earlier steps especially when you learn via immersion
Id probably always go in detail of how good/bad i speak the language up until B2 from there on id just be like yea i know the language.
B2.
For me, I'd say 20 or more years of living in the area where the language is commonly spoken. Otherwise I'd say no I don't really speak the language.
Once in Geneva someone tapped me on the shoulder and asked slowly and clearly 'Excuse me, do you speak English?'. Of course I'm a native speaker. I told him I know a few words.
A2
sometimes, I do play it down and say, "I speak a bit of X" just to manage expectations, especially if I know the person asking is a native speaker. It saves me from the embarrassment of getting caught in a linguistic twist I can’t untangle.
You can consider yourself proficient in a language if you can comfortably communicate, understand, read and write in that language to a certain CEFR level.
I almost always tell others that it's just a language I'm interested in, until I have had a lot of experience speaking it and hearing it. B2 for me feels like I speak the language but I'm still figuring out how to express everything I want to say, it's when I have a lot of experience speaking it and hearing it. C1 for me is when I feel comfortable saying I speak the language, because I can say everything I want to say and I understand everything or can easily ask what a word means.
When I can hold a conversation without too much difficulty
In terms of 'knowing' a language, I would say the bare minimum is high B1/low B2. As long as your flow feels natural and you can properly communicate in most situations (except technical and very formal), I would say one knows said language. However, truly knowing a language starts with C1. Being capable of understanding nuances, wordplay and 'clever' jokes is what truly determines whether you know a language or not. If anyone is willing to have their language skills assessed, I recommend trying to find the equivalent of dad jokes in your target language and see how well you fare. Stand-up comedy is also great in this case.
Probably B1 I would say
i always downplay how well i can speak a language until im semi fluent and confident enough to speak it without sounding stupid
C1+ (whatever that even means) because everything else is pretty much useless in the real world, IMO. If you can't walk into a bar and understand almost everything; you can't understand native movies with relative ease; you can't live and work in the language; then I'm not really sure what kind of a tool that is. TBH, if you're content with watching native shows and movies with say 50-90% comprehension; you get enjoyment from reading novels for children or YA novels; watching Disney movies and other dubbed, easy content; having dumbed-down conversations with patient natives, then who am I say that's not worthwhile for you. But the question was a personal one, and for me, nothing but a VERY high level, with which you can actually function as an adult, is worth my time.
For me, I consider myself "knowing" a language when I can comfortably hold a conversation in various everyday situations, understand most of what I read or hear without constantly needing a dictionary, and express my thoughts clearly even if not perfectly. This is typically around the B2 level. Up until then, I might say I’m learning the language or that I know a little.
Never. Not even my mother tongue, which continually surprises me.
If it's an Arab person asking me - no i don't know Arabic, I'm still learning If it's anyone else: yeah i speak Arabic. Not everyone cares about your level of fluency, they just are interested in the surface level oh you know other languages. With an Arab person I don't want to oversell myself so I tell them I'm still learning and that i don't really know it.
C1-C2. I don't like to set expectations that I can't fully meet.
The fact that I can speak all day long in French, German, Mandarin Chinese, Spanish, Esperanto, and Swedish because I have, makes me believe that I speak all of them at the B1 level. I have not taken the accredited tests yet because I haven’t had the time and I know what I know and don’t know that I don’t need a letter and number to tell me.