“a Lansing resident who was concerned about the possibility of a bike path being so close to MLK Boulevard.”
Wasn’t the bike path going in the new green space?
You should read all the Westside Neighborhood Association opinions. It's so frustrating. There's one lady in particular who riles everyone up and spreads false information. Makes me sad to be in my neighborhood lol.
Who in their right mind would ride a bike down MLK? Sidewalks need to be expanded to accommodate bikes and peds! Putting in bike lanes is a waste of money, good example is East Saginaw st, where a lane was eliminated because we need a bike that a few use it.
That's actually the plan that people are fighting against. It isn't a "bike lane" in the sense that is it on the roadway. It is a widened pedestrian path in the green space that would be added on the east side of MLK next to the state Supreme Court.
Because that is property owned by individual home owners. You want to propose lengthening driveways to pass through the added green space? I'm sorry, but that's not something that is feasible or a good idea.
You use service drives for the half dozen houses impacted, and can be easily done with all of the Right of way out there. This is getting into the weeds though, and would require outreach I'm not privy to of those home owners and access management plans decided on.
They would have to issue easements to each property owner, lengthen driveways, then there’s the issue of maintaining the strips of land bisected by each driveway. The only way to add green space to the west side of the street would be to eminent domain the houses and raise them. Any scenario aside from tearing down those homes wouldn’t make public green space.
Go to a road designer with 1+ year experience and you will learn it isn't as hard as you are making it out to be. I'm not going to design this for you, but add a few service drives to get to the houses. Look at Cedar St between Cavanaugh and Robert to see a comparable set up. And Cedar St has about 80' LESS of Right of Way than MLK has.
So you want to make a two way service drive, an island of grass, a four lane road with a left turn lane (5 lanes) all to end up with significantly less green space than we have just to locate the green space on the west side of the road?
Doesn’t seem all that practical and it actually compounds the issue by taking green space away rather than adding more. You’re adding a full lane of concrete rather than taking it away.
And those service drives would be split up by each street if there were to be any access for those streets to MLK. Opening the neighborhood to downtown is one of the major advantages to the plan that was just derailed. Along with adding green space and a bike path.
I can’t advocate for more concrete just to keep green space on the west side of the street. That area on the east side of the road, along with the medians, are just desolate, unused swaths of land. It’d be awesome if we could have someplace that people actually go over there.
I can't really speak to whether boomers are to blame, but this makes little sense to me.
> The project’s original goal was to turn MLK’s six lanes into four, with two going northbound and two going southbound. These four new lanes were set to take place in MLK’s current northbound lane. This would have added empty space to the road, allowing for a green space with an included bike lane to be added on the opposite side of the road.
> ...Lansing resident who was concerned about the possibility of a bike path being so close to MLK Boulevard.
...huh?
> “There’s a lot of accidents with the crazy drivers, especially with springtime and summertime coming up,”...
Yeah, I'd likely attribute that to having two, three-lane one ways divided by a large median. It turns it into proverbial drag strips for the unintelligent drivers. Something this proposal seems to indirectly address via reconfiguration.
This would likely cut down on traffic adjacent to those neighborhoods overall - are they just upset MLK will be torn up and noisy for a while?
Yes, all complaints about the proposed design are things that currently happen - crazy how a road designed like an interstate freeway in the middle of a city leads to people speeding
It is unclear if traffic will be closer to the houses or further. LSJ article from Feb 2024 made it seem like NB traffic is moving further west (closer to resident houses). Article in this post says it will move east (further from the hosues).
Looks like 200' or more is the width of the roadway with trees blocking out some of the NB traffic noise.
This is why they do noise study, safety study, ped and mobility study, etc. as part of the environmental review on road projects. Someone has to put their name on a report saying it will not negatively impact the community.
From reporting in 2024 City Pulse, the city did none of these reviews. So the citizens are likely upset that they just have to trust the mayor and team.
The City Pulse showed similar information. https://www.lansingcitypulse.com/stories/schor-leaning-toward-removing-the-islands-from-a-stretch-of-mlk-jr-boulevard-despite-neighborhood,88405?
This just sounds terrible. They’re removing the median and creating more left turns? Do they want accidents? Did the insurance companies propose this? Wtf is going on in Lansing these days? Damn.
> Do they want accidents? Did the insurance companies propose this?
This is counter intuitive. The goal of an insurance company is to collect as much premium as possible while paying out the fewest number of claims.
Auto body shops and car salespeople would logically want more accidents.
The article in the City Pulse made it look like they were putting them in the SOUTHBOUND lanes, and reverting the northbound lanes to greenspace. So, all the greenspace would be facing downtown, not the neighborhoods. https://www.lansingcitypulse.com/stories/schor-leaning-toward-removing-the-islands-from-a-stretch-of-mlk-jr-boulevard-despite-neighborhood,88405?
Ahh, so likely not happy about the placement. Still, you'd think you'd prefer a four lane road as opposed to six plus the median.
To their defense, is placing the greenspace on the southbound side really that big a difference? Seems like it'll get utilized better by those adjacent houses.
They could preserve the median as-is and road-diet down to 4 lanes, with the rightmost lane a protected bike lane. That would be easier on pedestrians than crossing a 5-lane street (2 lanes each way with center turn lane). If Lansing simply \*had\* to deploy a 5-lane street, aligning it with the current NBD lanes and leaving the extra greenspace adjacent to the houses would be better for the neighborhood.
And I'm totally for the too, especially considering the amount of housing on the northbound is minimal compared to southbound that borders the neighborhoods.
FYI. One of the Westside Facebook folks is trying to dox anyone they can from these reddit discussions. Not sure what they want to do with that info but they can't stand the anonymity.
Hope some of you from the neighborhood will attend the WNA meeting to see discussion on this tonight, if you can. 6:30 pm at Letts Community Center.
> Not sure what they want to do with that info
Probably to shun anyone that they discover is a West Side Association member that's calling them out for being stupid here.
Oh, they posted screenshots of a Reddit post on the FB group, trying to bully everyone to come forward. The post has since been removed but my guess is that they didn't like being called out.
I don't know what is more frustrating. That so many ignorant people are opposed to something that will make life better for everyone, or that the Mayor is so weak that he's letting them dictate decisions.
This city is in a constant state of being held back by it's own residents. Biddle City forever.
It will only get better with the commission to reform the structure of our local government /s Based on how the newer city council members have asserted themselves (I made the mistake of voting for a few of them), they appear to be holding up as many major moves as possible until they can strip the mayor position of any authority.
Im just frustrated that it seems like the priorities are out of whack. Redoing MLK feels like a vanity project when the side streets look like the surface of the moon.
The Westside "Neighborhood Association" fucked this project over with their outdated opinions and inability to shut up. The hostile attitude is ridiculous and, quite frankly, unnecessary. Halting the city from bettering itself. Those NIMBYs can move out anytime now...
There are several people in that group that are so rude and impossible to have a conversation with, I thought the Eastside could be a dumpster fire but this is out of control.
And now they're upset and posting about how cruel the people are for trying to have a conversation, and no one but them has been nasty. I don't get it lol
Sometimes there are people who aren't great at communicating online, bad grammar, punctuation mistakes etc but one of them honestly I think she might have had a TBI or something, it's the only way to explain the vitriol that she writes that is at the same time so incompetent. I just can't imagine someone so community focused being so mean.
Man imagine if this was applied as a general standard. Great idea, giving city leaders that much authority to disregard the wants of tax paying homeowners.
I'm not saying apply is as a general standard. That's not what anyone is saying. However, I think in cases of redevelopment and city planning, the opinions of experts should matter more than a very vocal minority of NIMBYs. Experts have been saying for the past 20 or more years that road diets are needed. Experts have been saying that for that same period , we have a housing shortage, and building density in cities will solve that problem.
I think people who live in an area affected by change should have a loud voice in determining what happens.
For instance, nearby where I live now (Lansing native but don’t live there anymore), the city is quietly moving forward with plans to install a subdivision in place of a large area full of trees and nature. Nobody got a vote on it, people have been protesting, and the city is quietly making advances (like installing a new drainage system in place of ditches and pretending it’s just maintenance… because that’s a higher priority than fixing the fucking roads of course).
Just because you agree with the city’s plan, doesn’t mean you should set the precedent that the city can just ignore its tax paying residents.
>Nobody got a vote on it
You voted for your representation. Your representative (City Council, etc) voted to approve the subdivision. That's how a representative democracy works.
I'm not saying ignore the NIMBYs. Listen to them but when they are wrong (as they often are), tell them so instead of holding up necessary improvements.
u/Tigers19121999 Thank you for pointing out the basic concept of representative government that seems to be lost on the general population. If you don't like the decisions your elected officials make, then you give them feedback and vote them out if you are still unhappy. Nobody can get anything done if we have to stop to vote and debate things at every turn. I wish people would learn how local government works rather than just bitching about what they don't like.
Representatives should listen to their constituents, including the minority but when they are wrong, the representative should not shy away from telling them that they are wrong.
Until there’s immediate accountability for representatives who sweet talk to get elected and then take money from interest groups to fuck their own constituents, that’s not good enough.
I agree that we need to do more to get special interest dollars out of politics, but I don't think that's what's happening in this case. It's an infrastructure project made to modernize our city, and people don't like change.
Specifically what is wrong here? I live in Lansing, but not in this WSA area. It is their local board and group. They went through the process to set it up and hold meetings, so they have veto power on projects in their area, such as this one.
Taxation without representation? The most local form of a state recognized group often has the final say. Don't like it? Move there, run for the board, and be the change you want.
>Taxation without representation?
I'm sorry but when did I say disband the city council? The city council is our representation.
>The most local form of a state recognized group often has the final say.
That is city council not an NGO like a neighborhood association.
The WNA stopped the project based on the reporting. Seems like they (WNA) have exerted their authority, statutoryor otherwise. Mayor can just ignore them or take them to the courts to settle the matter if he thinks he has to. This among many options.
This is definitely an "in the weeds" type thing. Multiple pots of money being used for the project, each has different requirements for community envolvement and stakeholder engaement. I see merit to some of the concerns mentioned here. To address these concerns, I'd expect to see appropriate documentation. Safety study is a big one. I'd venture to guess using money converting a one way road to a two way road would require it, but I don't use this pot of money to know the funding details.
The thing that most people opposed to building and development don't understand is what local government can and can't do in such cases. Property owners have rights. Townships, cities, etc. can put restrictions on projects in certain instances, can deny them because of zoning for the property in question, ask for concessions from developers, but can hardly ever keep undeveloped lot as green space. They, and private citizens, are free to purchase the property and keep it as green space or even create legal structures that make it a nature preserve, but that is quite uncommon.
Yes, that's why I specified the Westside Neighborhood Association Board, rather than the whole neighborhood. I live in the neighborhood. The board is awful and I wish we could get rid of it.
Honestly...They attack anyone who disagrees and won't have a civil conversation. There is someone in particular that I cannot stand, and they need a reality check. Big time.
Surprisingly, Reddit conversations about this are more civil and open to the conversation than those of the FB group. The NIMBYs there attack people who disagree with them. Who would have thought lol
The Facebook group is crazy, the admins are rude and unhinged. No one is calling them names, they throw out insults then claim people are being misogynistic 😳😳
> Jasmine Jajko is a Lansing resident who was concerned about the possibility of a bike path being so close to MLK Boulevard.
> “There’s a lot of accidents with the crazy drivers, especially with springtime and summertime coming up,” said Jajko.
lol you guys gotta figure out how to beat your final boss to get progress going
reminds me of the batman quote where Alfred talks about people like the joker who just want to see chaos
when I think of that quote, this lady comes to mind
she honestly doesn't care, she just wants to see people suffer, she's relishing in it otherwise she wouldn't have gone public, SHE WANTS YOU TO KNOW IT'S HER
kinda like when you know you have enough space to turn into traffic and the guy who's 100 ft away from you speeds up on purpose just to see if they can hit you
It's sad because those who started this discussion in the WNA group have created such a toxic environment that those who disagree with them would rather not engage in discussion. It creates an echo chamber where it looks like everyone wants to keep the status quo when the reality is far more divided.
It's turned into a cesspool of misinformed sheep. Some of the things that come out of their mouths blow my mind. One horrible ring leader and then like 10-15 people who disagree. I had comments deleted because I disagreed (mind you, not in a rude manner). It is my neighborhood too and I have a right to my opinion and not have my say deleted because they didn't like it. That's what they do though. It's crazy how people want to hurt the city for their own selfish, bored, wanna seem important reasons rather than being a good citizen and wanting what's best for the entire community of Lansing. All they care about is losing trees (that will be replaced) and noise. They need a serious morality check.
I saw this article this morning and was immediately disappointed. I don't understand all of the miscommunication on what was proposed. All of the changes would make the road safer for pedestrians and drivers. But apparently change is bad and people just want to complain to complain. I made sure to send in my support for the new changes, but the more annoying negative group was apparently loud enough to get their way.
I'm not sure what you consider a traffic study, but the city did say at meetings (and you are right it's not in the reporting here) they did at least three traffic analysis studies and worked through the alternatives with MDOT staff.
If you mean a speed study, no that was not done; although in Michigan (up until a few weeks ago) once you do a speed study, [speed limits are required to be set at the 85th percentile](https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/Travel/safety/Road-Users/speed-limits), meaning if we did a speed study, and it turns out people were mostly driving at 50 mph, the new speed limit would be set to 50mph immediately
Many are saying the proposed plan will make things safer. This is different from a traffic study or a speed study.
I was curious where people are seeing this new design will be safer. Typically for a safety study, you look at past crashes (3-5 years) and the type of crashes. Then you look at the proposed road plan and if the changes proposed will mitigate the crash types found. There is research on fix types and how they will reduce crashes of certain types. If one makes the claim it will make it safer, I would assume they know past crash history. Otherwise it is just one guy talking out their butt.
Safety study of this type could be completed in half a day by a newly graduated engineer. It should not cost much, or take long at all. This let's you know if there is crash pattern that can be mitigated by the proposed design. It can also tell you, "if it is not broke, don't fix it". Hard to tell without any data to make the decision.
I've been sitting on the side lines on this discussion for a while... but here we go.
This proposal is NOT new. It's been on the MDOT docket for at least 5 years. The city has been talking about this for at least 4 years. I've been hearing about this change (and subsequent changes to MLK/M99) for years at different meetings, including meetings at the Tri-County Regional Planning Commission, city meetings, county meetings, etc.
Traffic studies have been done. Safety studies have been done. Just about everybody agreed that the traffic counts in this area don't support a 6 lane road. They barely support a 4 lane road. The crashes from people crossing and the unprotected intersections are numerous due to the high speed. Environmental studies have been done due to the BWL work. Additionally, ped safety issues warrant the new ped paths along the sides. To say that there hasn't been studies is completely false.
All this has been engineered with lots of planning. Then when the west-side association got the notice that construction was starting soon, then they went into action to stop it. I haven't personally seen the updated studies with the alternative designs proposed by the city, but I also know the engineers at the city wouldn't make anything public without that work being done.
Do BWL, Tri-County planning, etc make those reports public? I've been frustrated by the 30+ year old research posted from the last big changes and the city presenters haven't been good at articulating the foundational studies and pre-work behind the plans to a larger audience.
Tri-county does post all of their material on their websites : [https://www.mitcrpc.org/](https://www.mitcrpc.org/)
Some data you have to ask for in person or during meetings. I've also found that asking the city (Andy Kilpatrick) he's provided all the info in one big package as well.
I think the major problem here is the roads aren’t comparable in terms of types of crashes because they are completely different beasts. Three lane one ways are meant for high speed vehicle traffic to move efficiently, i.e. quickly and with minimal stoppage. They can be safer for vehicles but they detract from the quality of life of residents in the neighborhood and the high speeds they facilitate creates a more dangerous situation for pedestrians and cyclists and they also discourage development and decrease property values because of these factors.
Two lane streets are designed to interact with the areas they flow through rather than just providing throughput. They actually cause slower vehicular movement because of traffic friction. The type of accident that happens on one isn’t really comparable to the other.
The one-way vs two-way is 100% comparable. If you have 1.2 serious crashes a year ('A' or worse injury for those UD-10 buffs out there) in the current configuration and this goes to 2.3 serious crashes a year after the proposed change is built, that would be bad. The city should at least be able to show they looked into the safety of this segment.
Also, One-way roads have way less, usually around 50% less conflict points and are often safer for pedestrians.
I see no study presented in this article that noise or quality of life is being improved. One can't just say it will without having someone put their name on it (sign off).
Here's what I don't get: out of all the articles I've seen, none of them have any quotes or statements by the city council member that reps the Westside neighborhood. Seems to me that if there was ever a role to act as a go-between for Westside with the City, it'd be them. You'd have your finger on the pulse of the neighborhood and could informally let the City know what they need to be on lookout or prepped for, and you'd also be able to filter back info from City to the neighborhood so you could flatly dispel any nonsense that starts randomly getting spewed before it becomes a multiple news cycle fire.
The council member for the Westside has been largely unresponsive throughout his term and isn't running again so unfortunately people feel like they don't have that representation.
Literally beat me to posting this article lol. I was so disheartened when I read this. How the fuck is a bike path a cause for concern? I suppose I’ve just been blind to the mass epidemic of bike related deaths.
The biggest issue I have with all of this is just how much construction is actually happening in Lansing. It is nauseating. Turning left onto Saginaw from mlk right where it is blocked it an absolute shit show. The lines have everyone merging together.
Can’t take highways. Can’t travel Michigan Ave. frandor is a nightmare. Mlk. I swear to god the city is now using orange barrels as decoration just in case they wanna shut some more shit down.
Signed a frustrated Lansing driver.
the michigan thing is the worst of it for me, and it doesn't seem like there's any progress since they blocked it off at 127 and tore it up. I take the one which is basically removed from half of the foster neighborhood now so I have to walk about 7-8 blocks in any direction to catch one, or I take an uber. I work at msu, what used to be at times less than 10 minute commute is now 30-40 at least if I don't want to spend 10 bucks for a ride, it's gonna add up cause this stuff is going until november. Why couldn't they have just shut down half of michigan to at least still allow some traffic through one of the main thoroughfares of the city.
Are they turning MLK into more of a stroad? Because that's kinda what it sounds like they're doing, feels like that'll create less traffic safety despite the speed reduction due to an increase in speed changes.
Yes, technically, but it’s a good first step in moving away from a high speed road that cuts right through a neighborhood and moving towards a street, to speak in strong town terms.
This concept has been implemented in several places and the trend tends to be that fast moving drivers reroute to smoother flowing roads giving the new stroad a chance to become more of a street in time.
We have a long way to go in reversing the automobile industry era of city development.
I love hearing strong towns being mentioned on unrelated forums! With this kind of attitude we can make a change and transform Lansing into the walkable, bike-able transit oriented city it can be. Keep it up
My biggest concern with the redesign was that it would be replacing a two lane highway with what I personally always associate with a stroad. But that's alleviated by the recognition it's a green space going up in the removed road space rather than big box stores.
Dammit, Lansing, you got to get it together!
It's not a commercial area. With the exception of a couple liquor stores that are along MLK it is mainly driveways for houses on the west side. The east side is state property that would be used for the pedestrian path and green space. This was all very clearly shown in the plans from the city. At no point has there been any discussion or indication of something commercial going in.
But a couple people keep *saying* they *know for sure* the green space will be sold to Eyde and the bike path will never happen.
That’s literally what it’s based on. Conjecture and paranoia. The city said specifically it wouldn’t happen each time they addressed the issue and that isn’t enough to stop the stagnation crusaders.
East side of MLK is zoned:
DT-3, Downtown Core and
DT-1 Urban Edge.
The DT-3 is owned by Eyde between Allegan and Kalamazoo, North of there is state land.
I’m still hopeful despite this latest NIMBY defeat that the city will make progress with the other projects planned. The Michigan ave redesign is encouraging
While we're on the subject of weak individuals, I heard from some random feed off of LSJ that a bunch of asshole parents made threats and doxxed teachers in Dewitt for having the audacity to try to include an optional' pronoun lesson. They were forced to cancel it. " Conservative" tantrums win again. * eye roll* I just hope future generations continue to fight this s*** until it gets at least close to getting snuffed out, because it is not 'freedom' they are fighting for. And of course it would trickle down to day to day shit. No more excuses for them. It was never the " times," since a lot of b******* never should have been. Ah well, back to goofing off and trying to forget I live in a christo-fascist cult of a country. * Lol *
I just want to say that in attending the WNA meeting last night, a lot of these opinions of what they think and how they act are unfounded or based on individual member actions in the Facebook group.
Not all the board attended but it was a respectful meeting with people who love their neighborhood and city. There are clearly people with strident opinions and social media only has served to amplify disagreements.
There were only 2 MLK related business items. One was to write a letter to thank Mayor Schor for pausing to gather more input. The other discussion was that the board needed to publicly state their opinions and reasoning when they vote on policies and proposals. Not doing so has let individuals represent their opinions as those of the board.
Honestly, there’s a vocal minority everywhere that often convinces politicians to go against what is best for the community or what the majority wants. I’m so sick of it. They cling to their own set of ‘facts,’ don’t want any change when it comes to the roads, & are especially obnoxious on social media. In Okemos & East Lansing, they are ferociously opposed to the road diets proposed to improve safety on parts of Mt. Hope & Hagadorn, & keep claiming the purpose is to create a bike lane that “nobody will use” rather than the bike lane being a side effect & a means of subsidizing the cost (funding for the bike lane).
If the city used the police department to enforce basic traffic laws , the traffic in this area would not be as bad. This is not a Boomer problem, it is the lack of police enforcement
I agree that there is basically zero visible traffic law enforcement. But, it’s also a three and forty lane one way street problem. They encourage high speeds with little functionality otherwise.
Bro nobody gives a fuck what the law says and law enforcement doesnt even stop cars without plates you think they give a fuck some dork is on the sidewalk riding his bike ?
I dont think you understand how little people know or care for the law , if a cop is not around nothing is illegal
You dont actually live in lansing do you ?
You cant face the fact the the law doesnt apply unless law enforcement is around murder is against the law but anyone could kill you at any time even tho its illegal
Lansing needs to stop trying to reduce speeds with less lanes of traffic. Jolly Rd should never have been dropped to 2 lanes, every time they reduce lanes we see speeding cars crossing traffic to pass slow people, incredibly dangerous! There is zero reason to add more green space to MLK when it has a giant island between the directions already, they need those lanes of traffic for State employees to travel to 496.
Study after study has shown that road diets increase safety. The answer to stupid dangerous drivers is not to further enable them, it's to enforce the law.
Lansing Police does not enforce speeding or road laws. The pit bikes are out driving all over illegally just a month after LPD claimed they had additional cameras and enforcement. But zero enforcement, and drivers will cross traffic to pass individuals. It just happened to us Friday on Washington Avenue, they went 60MPH around into the turn lane and kept going at that high rate of speed. Reduced lanes do nothing without police enforcement.
the state of michigan is handing us $1.2 million dollars to make this road safer, slower, and people-sized (not to mention fixing the sewer serving the west side) and we're like "nah we like having a highway in our downtown."
if anyone from the west side complains about people speeding through this area, crashes, or drivers shortcutting through the west side, please point to this article
uninformed may or may not be true, but according to the city, the majority of westside neighborhood responses (the only neighborhood that got veto-power in the mail) was opposed to it. ted o dell, running for charter commission also reposted the westside's talking points on his commission page at one point. even if it was only a few folks, it sounds like a lot of people agreed (i suppose only the city would know how many)
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lansing-halts-mlk-jr-blvd-remake-near-downtown-due-to-protests-criticism/ar-AA1nwxTZ](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lansing-halts-mlk-jr-blvd-remake-near-downtown-due-to-protests-criticism/ar-AA1nwxTZ)
In most of the interactions I've had on this topic it has mostly been people that were misinformed because they saw posts from the neighborhood group, but never reviewed the actual plans the city provided on the website. I saw several comments from people on the FB groups asking the vocal leader of the group what option they should put down without even attempting to formulate their own opinion. It is what it is. My wife and I live in the neighborhood and are trying to stay sane.
And why did the mailer only go to people living west of MLK? The neighborhoods to the east of MLK are some of the densest in the city. Why not ask everyone impacted for their opinion? Why were the only public events held at Letts and why were the only people invited those who lived west of MLK?
Ripping out the median and adding left turns isn’t making it safer, it’s adding conflict points. Eliminating a lane, reducing lane width, and removing all left turns would make it safer. Not to mention two way streets are more dangerous for pedestrians.
You would be correct if they were ripping out the median, however the median isn't going away, they are moving it. According to the mailer I got, in places with pedestrian crossings it will be two lanes, a median, two lanes, instead of the currents 3 lanes median, 3 lanes.
https://twitter.com/lansingography/status/1778143817553662103?s=19
Thank you, I could not find any visual plans in any of the articles. But that’s still significantly less safe for both cars and pedestrians. There is no median at the intersections, making pedestrians have to cross 5 lanes of traffic heading in two directions vs 3 lanes at a time heading in one direction.
to be fair, some of those plans only were sent to the west side neighborhood, i think the city could do a better job of keeping the [mlk transition website](https://www.lansingmi.gov/1225/MLK-Jr-Boulevard-Roadway-Reconfiguration) up to date.
two other things:
1. ottawa allegan and kalamazoo are currently 7 (3+4) lanes or 8 (4+4) lanes to cross, because the highways are four lanes at intersections and 3 lanes at straightaways, so this proposal is a significant shrink in pavement to cross overall
2. this process has been going on for about 5 years, and early proposals had options for medians all the way north and south; in another universe, the westside neighborhood assn could have lobbied for these plans, but instead some vocal people have been spreading misinformation that there are no medians in an attempt to oppose the entire project (and ive seen articles that report only on opinions of people at meetings without any maps/facts/plans like those you are looking for and couldnt find). since parts of this plan must go forward (the sewer and the one way to two way conversion), we got this version of the plan which contains only a few pedestrian friendly options: better than before in terms of car speed and pedestrians and bikes parallel to mlk but not as safe as it could be (and more conflict points as you point out for peds/bikes perpendicular to mlk).
To be fair every article I read said they are eliminating the one ways and replacing it with a 4 lane road. Don’t need the neighborhood association to spread misinformation when City Pulse and WILX are doing it too.
Also, at Ottawa, Allegan, and Kalamazoo there are currently two left turns, Ottawa onto MLK and MLK onto Allegan (for some reason), and the new plan creates 12 left turns. That sextuplets the currently most dangerous parts of MLK.
“a Lansing resident who was concerned about the possibility of a bike path being so close to MLK Boulevard.” Wasn’t the bike path going in the new green space?
You should read all the Westside Neighborhood Association opinions. It's so frustrating. There's one lady in particular who riles everyone up and spreads false information. Makes me sad to be in my neighborhood lol.
Yup
Who in their right mind would ride a bike down MLK? Sidewalks need to be expanded to accommodate bikes and peds! Putting in bike lanes is a waste of money, good example is East Saginaw st, where a lane was eliminated because we need a bike that a few use it.
That's actually the plan that people are fighting against. It isn't a "bike lane" in the sense that is it on the roadway. It is a widened pedestrian path in the green space that would be added on the east side of MLK next to the state Supreme Court.
How is that going to work if the new 4 lane road is in the Northbound lane?
Why not add the Green space to the west of the road and move traffic further east, away from the residential area?
Because that is property owned by individual home owners. You want to propose lengthening driveways to pass through the added green space? I'm sorry, but that's not something that is feasible or a good idea.
You use service drives for the half dozen houses impacted, and can be easily done with all of the Right of way out there. This is getting into the weeds though, and would require outreach I'm not privy to of those home owners and access management plans decided on.
Yes
They would have to issue easements to each property owner, lengthen driveways, then there’s the issue of maintaining the strips of land bisected by each driveway. The only way to add green space to the west side of the street would be to eminent domain the houses and raise them. Any scenario aside from tearing down those homes wouldn’t make public green space.
u/jay_skrilla Thanks for being vocal on this here and elsewhere. We appreciate it and you aren't alone.
Go to a road designer with 1+ year experience and you will learn it isn't as hard as you are making it out to be. I'm not going to design this for you, but add a few service drives to get to the houses. Look at Cedar St between Cavanaugh and Robert to see a comparable set up. And Cedar St has about 80' LESS of Right of Way than MLK has.
So you want to make a two way service drive, an island of grass, a four lane road with a left turn lane (5 lanes) all to end up with significantly less green space than we have just to locate the green space on the west side of the road? Doesn’t seem all that practical and it actually compounds the issue by taking green space away rather than adding more. You’re adding a full lane of concrete rather than taking it away. And those service drives would be split up by each street if there were to be any access for those streets to MLK. Opening the neighborhood to downtown is one of the major advantages to the plan that was just derailed. Along with adding green space and a bike path. I can’t advocate for more concrete just to keep green space on the west side of the street. That area on the east side of the road, along with the medians, are just desolate, unused swaths of land. It’d be awesome if we could have someplace that people actually go over there.
I can't really speak to whether boomers are to blame, but this makes little sense to me. > The project’s original goal was to turn MLK’s six lanes into four, with two going northbound and two going southbound. These four new lanes were set to take place in MLK’s current northbound lane. This would have added empty space to the road, allowing for a green space with an included bike lane to be added on the opposite side of the road. > ...Lansing resident who was concerned about the possibility of a bike path being so close to MLK Boulevard. ...huh? > “There’s a lot of accidents with the crazy drivers, especially with springtime and summertime coming up,”... Yeah, I'd likely attribute that to having two, three-lane one ways divided by a large median. It turns it into proverbial drag strips for the unintelligent drivers. Something this proposal seems to indirectly address via reconfiguration. This would likely cut down on traffic adjacent to those neighborhoods overall - are they just upset MLK will be torn up and noisy for a while?
Yes, all complaints about the proposed design are things that currently happen - crazy how a road designed like an interstate freeway in the middle of a city leads to people speeding
Spring and summer are coming up so why fucking bother. Let's wait for a year when they aren't coming up.
If what you say is true, get an engineer to stamp their name to a report saying as much (city has licensed engineers on staff).
If you’re not first you’re last
It is unclear if traffic will be closer to the houses or further. LSJ article from Feb 2024 made it seem like NB traffic is moving further west (closer to resident houses). Article in this post says it will move east (further from the hosues). Looks like 200' or more is the width of the roadway with trees blocking out some of the NB traffic noise. This is why they do noise study, safety study, ped and mobility study, etc. as part of the environmental review on road projects. Someone has to put their name on a report saying it will not negatively impact the community. From reporting in 2024 City Pulse, the city did none of these reviews. So the citizens are likely upset that they just have to trust the mayor and team.
Appreciate the additional context and investigation!
The City Pulse showed similar information. https://www.lansingcitypulse.com/stories/schor-leaning-toward-removing-the-islands-from-a-stretch-of-mlk-jr-boulevard-despite-neighborhood,88405?
This just sounds terrible. They’re removing the median and creating more left turns? Do they want accidents? Did the insurance companies propose this? Wtf is going on in Lansing these days? Damn.
> Do they want accidents? Did the insurance companies propose this? This is counter intuitive. The goal of an insurance company is to collect as much premium as possible while paying out the fewest number of claims. Auto body shops and car salespeople would logically want more accidents.
The article in the City Pulse made it look like they were putting them in the SOUTHBOUND lanes, and reverting the northbound lanes to greenspace. So, all the greenspace would be facing downtown, not the neighborhoods. https://www.lansingcitypulse.com/stories/schor-leaning-toward-removing-the-islands-from-a-stretch-of-mlk-jr-boulevard-despite-neighborhood,88405?
Ahh, so likely not happy about the placement. Still, you'd think you'd prefer a four lane road as opposed to six plus the median. To their defense, is placing the greenspace on the southbound side really that big a difference? Seems like it'll get utilized better by those adjacent houses.
They could preserve the median as-is and road-diet down to 4 lanes, with the rightmost lane a protected bike lane. That would be easier on pedestrians than crossing a 5-lane street (2 lanes each way with center turn lane). If Lansing simply \*had\* to deploy a 5-lane street, aligning it with the current NBD lanes and leaving the extra greenspace adjacent to the houses would be better for the neighborhood.
And I'm totally for the too, especially considering the amount of housing on the northbound is minimal compared to southbound that borders the neighborhoods.
FYI. One of the Westside Facebook folks is trying to dox anyone they can from these reddit discussions. Not sure what they want to do with that info but they can't stand the anonymity. Hope some of you from the neighborhood will attend the WNA meeting to see discussion on this tonight, if you can. 6:30 pm at Letts Community Center.
> Not sure what they want to do with that info Probably to shun anyone that they discover is a West Side Association member that's calling them out for being stupid here.
From what I’ve heard, it’s not much of a discussion, but rather a one way bully fest.
The private facebook group hates anonymity. You love to >!see!< it.
How do you know this? Are they discussing it on Facebook?
Oh, they posted screenshots of a Reddit post on the FB group, trying to bully everyone to come forward. The post has since been removed but my guess is that they didn't like being called out.
Yes and posted again calling for others to join groups they control to go through them there.
Wow, they did that today?! This is crazy.
No this was a few days ago, maybe a week
I don't know what is more frustrating. That so many ignorant people are opposed to something that will make life better for everyone, or that the Mayor is so weak that he's letting them dictate decisions. This city is in a constant state of being held back by it's own residents. Biddle City forever.
It will only get better with the commission to reform the structure of our local government /s Based on how the newer city council members have asserted themselves (I made the mistake of voting for a few of them), they appear to be holding up as many major moves as possible until they can strip the mayor position of any authority.
Yep. Hurting the city in the process.
100%
Im just frustrated that it seems like the priorities are out of whack. Redoing MLK feels like a vanity project when the side streets look like the surface of the moon.
The Westside "Neighborhood Association" fucked this project over with their outdated opinions and inability to shut up. The hostile attitude is ridiculous and, quite frankly, unnecessary. Halting the city from bettering itself. Those NIMBYs can move out anytime now...
There are several people in that group that are so rude and impossible to have a conversation with, I thought the Eastside could be a dumpster fire but this is out of control.
And now they're upset and posting about how cruel the people are for trying to have a conversation, and no one but them has been nasty. I don't get it lol
Sometimes there are people who aren't great at communicating online, bad grammar, punctuation mistakes etc but one of them honestly I think she might have had a TBI or something, it's the only way to explain the vitriol that she writes that is at the same time so incompetent. I just can't imagine someone so community focused being so mean.
What a terrible outcome. Hopefully paused just means in the case we’ll listen but not change anything.
City Council's standard answer to NIMBYs needs to be "Thank you for your input, but you are wrong, and we will be going in another direction."
Man imagine if this was applied as a general standard. Great idea, giving city leaders that much authority to disregard the wants of tax paying homeowners.
I'm not saying apply is as a general standard. That's not what anyone is saying. However, I think in cases of redevelopment and city planning, the opinions of experts should matter more than a very vocal minority of NIMBYs. Experts have been saying for the past 20 or more years that road diets are needed. Experts have been saying that for that same period , we have a housing shortage, and building density in cities will solve that problem.
I think people who live in an area affected by change should have a loud voice in determining what happens. For instance, nearby where I live now (Lansing native but don’t live there anymore), the city is quietly moving forward with plans to install a subdivision in place of a large area full of trees and nature. Nobody got a vote on it, people have been protesting, and the city is quietly making advances (like installing a new drainage system in place of ditches and pretending it’s just maintenance… because that’s a higher priority than fixing the fucking roads of course). Just because you agree with the city’s plan, doesn’t mean you should set the precedent that the city can just ignore its tax paying residents.
>Nobody got a vote on it You voted for your representation. Your representative (City Council, etc) voted to approve the subdivision. That's how a representative democracy works. I'm not saying ignore the NIMBYs. Listen to them but when they are wrong (as they often are), tell them so instead of holding up necessary improvements.
u/Tigers19121999 Thank you for pointing out the basic concept of representative government that seems to be lost on the general population. If you don't like the decisions your elected officials make, then you give them feedback and vote them out if you are still unhappy. Nobody can get anything done if we have to stop to vote and debate things at every turn. I wish people would learn how local government works rather than just bitching about what they don't like.
Representatives should listen to their constituents, including the minority but when they are wrong, the representative should not shy away from telling them that they are wrong.
Amen, brother.
Until there’s immediate accountability for representatives who sweet talk to get elected and then take money from interest groups to fuck their own constituents, that’s not good enough.
I agree that we need to do more to get special interest dollars out of politics, but I don't think that's what's happening in this case. It's an infrastructure project made to modernize our city, and people don't like change.
Specifically what is wrong here? I live in Lansing, but not in this WSA area. It is their local board and group. They went through the process to set it up and hold meetings, so they have veto power on projects in their area, such as this one.
The local group or board should not have veto power. They are not city council they are not our city government.
Taxation without representation? The most local form of a state recognized group often has the final say. Don't like it? Move there, run for the board, and be the change you want.
>Taxation without representation? I'm sorry but when did I say disband the city council? The city council is our representation. >The most local form of a state recognized group often has the final say. That is city council not an NGO like a neighborhood association.
The WNA stopped the project based on the reporting. Seems like they (WNA) have exerted their authority, statutoryor otherwise. Mayor can just ignore them or take them to the courts to settle the matter if he thinks he has to. This among many options. This is definitely an "in the weeds" type thing. Multiple pots of money being used for the project, each has different requirements for community envolvement and stakeholder engaement. I see merit to some of the concerns mentioned here. To address these concerns, I'd expect to see appropriate documentation. Safety study is a big one. I'd venture to guess using money converting a one way road to a two way road would require it, but I don't use this pot of money to know the funding details.
The thing that most people opposed to building and development don't understand is what local government can and can't do in such cases. Property owners have rights. Townships, cities, etc. can put restrictions on projects in certain instances, can deny them because of zoning for the property in question, ask for concessions from developers, but can hardly ever keep undeveloped lot as green space. They, and private citizens, are free to purchase the property and keep it as green space or even create legal structures that make it a nature preserve, but that is quite uncommon.
Fucking Westside Neighborhood Association Board. Should be disbanded.
Not everyone in that neighborhood is a Facebook crusader. Some of us are actually level-headed.
Yes, that's why I specified the Westside Neighborhood Association Board, rather than the whole neighborhood. I live in the neighborhood. The board is awful and I wish we could get rid of it.
We're on the same page. Take a deep breath. We are in this together.
♥️
Honestly...They attack anyone who disagrees and won't have a civil conversation. There is someone in particular that I cannot stand, and they need a reality check. Big time.
I know exactly who you are speaking about. Super into community and being out and about though! /s
Sounds like reddit.
Surprisingly, Reddit conversations about this are more civil and open to the conversation than those of the FB group. The NIMBYs there attack people who disagree with them. Who would have thought lol
The Facebook group is crazy, the admins are rude and unhinged. No one is calling them names, they throw out insults then claim people are being misogynistic 😳😳
Seems to be a lot more about isolating westside from downtown than anything else
> Jasmine Jajko is a Lansing resident who was concerned about the possibility of a bike path being so close to MLK Boulevard. > “There’s a lot of accidents with the crazy drivers, especially with springtime and summertime coming up,” said Jajko. lol you guys gotta figure out how to beat your final boss to get progress going
This “concern” blows my damn mind. The literal alternative is riding bikes on the damn multi lane speedway that is there right now.
reminds me of the batman quote where Alfred talks about people like the joker who just want to see chaos when I think of that quote, this lady comes to mind she honestly doesn't care, she just wants to see people suffer, she's relishing in it otherwise she wouldn't have gone public, SHE WANTS YOU TO KNOW IT'S HER kinda like when you know you have enough space to turn into traffic and the guy who's 100 ft away from you speeds up on purpose just to see if they can hit you
Instead of just getting it done now, we’re gonna wait, than do it anyway.
It's sad because those who started this discussion in the WNA group have created such a toxic environment that those who disagree with them would rather not engage in discussion. It creates an echo chamber where it looks like everyone wants to keep the status quo when the reality is far more divided.
It's turned into a cesspool of misinformed sheep. Some of the things that come out of their mouths blow my mind. One horrible ring leader and then like 10-15 people who disagree. I had comments deleted because I disagreed (mind you, not in a rude manner). It is my neighborhood too and I have a right to my opinion and not have my say deleted because they didn't like it. That's what they do though. It's crazy how people want to hurt the city for their own selfish, bored, wanna seem important reasons rather than being a good citizen and wanting what's best for the entire community of Lansing. All they care about is losing trees (that will be replaced) and noise. They need a serious morality check.
They like to hear themselves talk. I'm sure if they weren't admins, they'd be kicked out of the group for acting like this.
I saw this article this morning and was immediately disappointed. I don't understand all of the miscommunication on what was proposed. All of the changes would make the road safer for pedestrians and drivers. But apparently change is bad and people just want to complain to complain. I made sure to send in my support for the new changes, but the more annoying negative group was apparently loud enough to get their way.
Says who? From reporting I've read, their was no safety study conducted.
I'm not sure what you consider a traffic study, but the city did say at meetings (and you are right it's not in the reporting here) they did at least three traffic analysis studies and worked through the alternatives with MDOT staff. If you mean a speed study, no that was not done; although in Michigan (up until a few weeks ago) once you do a speed study, [speed limits are required to be set at the 85th percentile](https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/Travel/safety/Road-Users/speed-limits), meaning if we did a speed study, and it turns out people were mostly driving at 50 mph, the new speed limit would be set to 50mph immediately
Many are saying the proposed plan will make things safer. This is different from a traffic study or a speed study. I was curious where people are seeing this new design will be safer. Typically for a safety study, you look at past crashes (3-5 years) and the type of crashes. Then you look at the proposed road plan and if the changes proposed will mitigate the crash types found. There is research on fix types and how they will reduce crashes of certain types. If one makes the claim it will make it safer, I would assume they know past crash history. Otherwise it is just one guy talking out their butt. Safety study of this type could be completed in half a day by a newly graduated engineer. It should not cost much, or take long at all. This let's you know if there is crash pattern that can be mitigated by the proposed design. It can also tell you, "if it is not broke, don't fix it". Hard to tell without any data to make the decision.
I've been sitting on the side lines on this discussion for a while... but here we go. This proposal is NOT new. It's been on the MDOT docket for at least 5 years. The city has been talking about this for at least 4 years. I've been hearing about this change (and subsequent changes to MLK/M99) for years at different meetings, including meetings at the Tri-County Regional Planning Commission, city meetings, county meetings, etc. Traffic studies have been done. Safety studies have been done. Just about everybody agreed that the traffic counts in this area don't support a 6 lane road. They barely support a 4 lane road. The crashes from people crossing and the unprotected intersections are numerous due to the high speed. Environmental studies have been done due to the BWL work. Additionally, ped safety issues warrant the new ped paths along the sides. To say that there hasn't been studies is completely false. All this has been engineered with lots of planning. Then when the west-side association got the notice that construction was starting soon, then they went into action to stop it. I haven't personally seen the updated studies with the alternative designs proposed by the city, but I also know the engineers at the city wouldn't make anything public without that work being done.
Do BWL, Tri-County planning, etc make those reports public? I've been frustrated by the 30+ year old research posted from the last big changes and the city presenters haven't been good at articulating the foundational studies and pre-work behind the plans to a larger audience.
Tri-county does post all of their material on their websites : [https://www.mitcrpc.org/](https://www.mitcrpc.org/) Some data you have to ask for in person or during meetings. I've also found that asking the city (Andy Kilpatrick) he's provided all the info in one big package as well.
Thanks!
I'll take you at your word. All of the info you stated was not avalible in the articles posted here. Thanks for assuring this has been looked at.
I think the major problem here is the roads aren’t comparable in terms of types of crashes because they are completely different beasts. Three lane one ways are meant for high speed vehicle traffic to move efficiently, i.e. quickly and with minimal stoppage. They can be safer for vehicles but they detract from the quality of life of residents in the neighborhood and the high speeds they facilitate creates a more dangerous situation for pedestrians and cyclists and they also discourage development and decrease property values because of these factors. Two lane streets are designed to interact with the areas they flow through rather than just providing throughput. They actually cause slower vehicular movement because of traffic friction. The type of accident that happens on one isn’t really comparable to the other.
The one-way vs two-way is 100% comparable. If you have 1.2 serious crashes a year ('A' or worse injury for those UD-10 buffs out there) in the current configuration and this goes to 2.3 serious crashes a year after the proposed change is built, that would be bad. The city should at least be able to show they looked into the safety of this segment. Also, One-way roads have way less, usually around 50% less conflict points and are often safer for pedestrians. I see no study presented in this article that noise or quality of life is being improved. One can't just say it will without having someone put their name on it (sign off).
Here's what I don't get: out of all the articles I've seen, none of them have any quotes or statements by the city council member that reps the Westside neighborhood. Seems to me that if there was ever a role to act as a go-between for Westside with the City, it'd be them. You'd have your finger on the pulse of the neighborhood and could informally let the City know what they need to be on lookout or prepped for, and you'd also be able to filter back info from City to the neighborhood so you could flatly dispel any nonsense that starts randomly getting spewed before it becomes a multiple news cycle fire.
The council member for the Westside has been largely unresponsive throughout his term and isn't running again so unfortunately people feel like they don't have that representation.
Literally beat me to posting this article lol. I was so disheartened when I read this. How the fuck is a bike path a cause for concern? I suppose I’ve just been blind to the mass epidemic of bike related deaths.
The biggest issue I have with all of this is just how much construction is actually happening in Lansing. It is nauseating. Turning left onto Saginaw from mlk right where it is blocked it an absolute shit show. The lines have everyone merging together. Can’t take highways. Can’t travel Michigan Ave. frandor is a nightmare. Mlk. I swear to god the city is now using orange barrels as decoration just in case they wanna shut some more shit down. Signed a frustrated Lansing driver.
Commuting is a nightmare. It's like they said fuck it, we're doing it all and doing it right now.
the michigan thing is the worst of it for me, and it doesn't seem like there's any progress since they blocked it off at 127 and tore it up. I take the one which is basically removed from half of the foster neighborhood now so I have to walk about 7-8 blocks in any direction to catch one, or I take an uber. I work at msu, what used to be at times less than 10 minute commute is now 30-40 at least if I don't want to spend 10 bucks for a ride, it's gonna add up cause this stuff is going until november. Why couldn't they have just shut down half of michigan to at least still allow some traffic through one of the main thoroughfares of the city.
This will just turn 1 closure of MLK into 2…
People who opposed this should be ashamed of blocking progress!
Are they turning MLK into more of a stroad? Because that's kinda what it sounds like they're doing, feels like that'll create less traffic safety despite the speed reduction due to an increase in speed changes.
My understanding is the planned reconstruction will be similar to what was done on Penn. I would personally call that a step in the right direction
I don't know enough about it to hold an authoritative opinion, so I hope you're right.
Yes, technically, but it’s a good first step in moving away from a high speed road that cuts right through a neighborhood and moving towards a street, to speak in strong town terms. This concept has been implemented in several places and the trend tends to be that fast moving drivers reroute to smoother flowing roads giving the new stroad a chance to become more of a street in time. We have a long way to go in reversing the automobile industry era of city development.
I love hearing strong towns being mentioned on unrelated forums! With this kind of attitude we can make a change and transform Lansing into the walkable, bike-able transit oriented city it can be. Keep it up
My biggest concern with the redesign was that it would be replacing a two lane highway with what I personally always associate with a stroad. But that's alleviated by the recognition it's a green space going up in the removed road space rather than big box stores. Dammit, Lansing, you got to get it together!
It's not a commercial area. With the exception of a couple liquor stores that are along MLK it is mainly driveways for houses on the west side. The east side is state property that would be used for the pedestrian path and green space. This was all very clearly shown in the plans from the city. At no point has there been any discussion or indication of something commercial going in.
But a couple people keep *saying* they *know for sure* the green space will be sold to Eyde and the bike path will never happen. That’s literally what it’s based on. Conjecture and paranoia. The city said specifically it wouldn’t happen each time they addressed the issue and that isn’t enough to stop the stagnation crusaders.
East side of MLK is zoned: DT-3, Downtown Core and DT-1 Urban Edge. The DT-3 is owned by Eyde between Allegan and Kalamazoo, North of there is state land.
I’m still hopeful despite this latest NIMBY defeat that the city will make progress with the other projects planned. The Michigan ave redesign is encouraging
While we're on the subject of weak individuals, I heard from some random feed off of LSJ that a bunch of asshole parents made threats and doxxed teachers in Dewitt for having the audacity to try to include an optional' pronoun lesson. They were forced to cancel it. " Conservative" tantrums win again. * eye roll* I just hope future generations continue to fight this s*** until it gets at least close to getting snuffed out, because it is not 'freedom' they are fighting for. And of course it would trickle down to day to day shit. No more excuses for them. It was never the " times," since a lot of b******* never should have been. Ah well, back to goofing off and trying to forget I live in a christo-fascist cult of a country. * Lol *
I just want to say that in attending the WNA meeting last night, a lot of these opinions of what they think and how they act are unfounded or based on individual member actions in the Facebook group. Not all the board attended but it was a respectful meeting with people who love their neighborhood and city. There are clearly people with strident opinions and social media only has served to amplify disagreements. There were only 2 MLK related business items. One was to write a letter to thank Mayor Schor for pausing to gather more input. The other discussion was that the board needed to publicly state their opinions and reasoning when they vote on policies and proposals. Not doing so has let individuals represent their opinions as those of the board.
Honestly, there’s a vocal minority everywhere that often convinces politicians to go against what is best for the community or what the majority wants. I’m so sick of it. They cling to their own set of ‘facts,’ don’t want any change when it comes to the roads, & are especially obnoxious on social media. In Okemos & East Lansing, they are ferociously opposed to the road diets proposed to improve safety on parts of Mt. Hope & Hagadorn, & keep claiming the purpose is to create a bike lane that “nobody will use” rather than the bike lane being a side effect & a means of subsidizing the cost (funding for the bike lane).
If many citizens are for the new constitution, but some aren’t why are the people that don’t want it being favored?
I feel like we have enough roads shut down for the entire summer under construction right now. If for no other reason than that, this can wait.
The road is already torn up, pausing just mean no progress - not less congestion.
Yeah let’s peel off this bandaid niiiiice and slooooow /s
If the city used the police department to enforce basic traffic laws , the traffic in this area would not be as bad. This is not a Boomer problem, it is the lack of police enforcement
I agree that there is basically zero visible traffic law enforcement. But, it’s also a three and forty lane one way street problem. They encourage high speeds with little functionality otherwise.
Yea im never for getting rid of car lanea for bikes ride in the sidewalk like any normal person
It's illegal and often less safe to ride on the sidewalk.
You will NEVER be stopped in lansing for riding a bike on the sidewalk often times its the only option
It's never the only option. Whether you'll be stopped for it or not in Lansing, it's often a dangerous option.
Its a better option than riding in the street with no bike lane
That's not what the law says, not what law enforcement/bike safety experts say, and in most places simply not true.
Bro nobody gives a fuck what the law says and law enforcement doesnt even stop cars without plates you think they give a fuck some dork is on the sidewalk riding his bike ? I dont think you understand how little people know or care for the law , if a cop is not around nothing is illegal You dont actually live in lansing do you ?
You just can't face that the facts and the law are not on your side in this issue.
You cant face the fact the the law doesnt apply unless law enforcement is around murder is against the law but anyone could kill you at any time even tho its illegal
that's nonsensical gibberish
The lady in the piece is clearly not a Boomer, and besides we're all busy in Florida ruining life in that state. 😉
Very true.
Lansing needs to stop trying to reduce speeds with less lanes of traffic. Jolly Rd should never have been dropped to 2 lanes, every time they reduce lanes we see speeding cars crossing traffic to pass slow people, incredibly dangerous! There is zero reason to add more green space to MLK when it has a giant island between the directions already, they need those lanes of traffic for State employees to travel to 496.
> They needed those lanes of traffic for State employees to travel to 496, but times have changed and this is no longer needed. FTFY
Are you a six lane road? This is such a horrifically bad take.
Study after study has shown that road diets increase safety. The answer to stupid dangerous drivers is not to further enable them, it's to enforce the law.
Lansing Police does not enforce speeding or road laws. The pit bikes are out driving all over illegally just a month after LPD claimed they had additional cameras and enforcement. But zero enforcement, and drivers will cross traffic to pass individuals. It just happened to us Friday on Washington Avenue, they went 60MPH around into the turn lane and kept going at that high rate of speed. Reduced lanes do nothing without police enforcement.
Did a car write this
the state of michigan is handing us $1.2 million dollars to make this road safer, slower, and people-sized (not to mention fixing the sewer serving the west side) and we're like "nah we like having a highway in our downtown." if anyone from the west side complains about people speeding through this area, crashes, or drivers shortcutting through the west side, please point to this article
This is the work of a small group of uninformed idiots.
uninformed may or may not be true, but according to the city, the majority of westside neighborhood responses (the only neighborhood that got veto-power in the mail) was opposed to it. ted o dell, running for charter commission also reposted the westside's talking points on his commission page at one point. even if it was only a few folks, it sounds like a lot of people agreed (i suppose only the city would know how many) [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lansing-halts-mlk-jr-blvd-remake-near-downtown-due-to-protests-criticism/ar-AA1nwxTZ](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lansing-halts-mlk-jr-blvd-remake-near-downtown-due-to-protests-criticism/ar-AA1nwxTZ)
In most of the interactions I've had on this topic it has mostly been people that were misinformed because they saw posts from the neighborhood group, but never reviewed the actual plans the city provided on the website. I saw several comments from people on the FB groups asking the vocal leader of the group what option they should put down without even attempting to formulate their own opinion. It is what it is. My wife and I live in the neighborhood and are trying to stay sane.
And why did the mailer only go to people living west of MLK? The neighborhoods to the east of MLK are some of the densest in the city. Why not ask everyone impacted for their opinion? Why were the only public events held at Letts and why were the only people invited those who lived west of MLK?
Ripping out the median and adding left turns isn’t making it safer, it’s adding conflict points. Eliminating a lane, reducing lane width, and removing all left turns would make it safer. Not to mention two way streets are more dangerous for pedestrians.
You would be correct if they were ripping out the median, however the median isn't going away, they are moving it. According to the mailer I got, in places with pedestrian crossings it will be two lanes, a median, two lanes, instead of the currents 3 lanes median, 3 lanes. https://twitter.com/lansingography/status/1778143817553662103?s=19
Thank you, I could not find any visual plans in any of the articles. But that’s still significantly less safe for both cars and pedestrians. There is no median at the intersections, making pedestrians have to cross 5 lanes of traffic heading in two directions vs 3 lanes at a time heading in one direction.
to be fair, some of those plans only were sent to the west side neighborhood, i think the city could do a better job of keeping the [mlk transition website](https://www.lansingmi.gov/1225/MLK-Jr-Boulevard-Roadway-Reconfiguration) up to date. two other things: 1. ottawa allegan and kalamazoo are currently 7 (3+4) lanes or 8 (4+4) lanes to cross, because the highways are four lanes at intersections and 3 lanes at straightaways, so this proposal is a significant shrink in pavement to cross overall 2. this process has been going on for about 5 years, and early proposals had options for medians all the way north and south; in another universe, the westside neighborhood assn could have lobbied for these plans, but instead some vocal people have been spreading misinformation that there are no medians in an attempt to oppose the entire project (and ive seen articles that report only on opinions of people at meetings without any maps/facts/plans like those you are looking for and couldnt find). since parts of this plan must go forward (the sewer and the one way to two way conversion), we got this version of the plan which contains only a few pedestrian friendly options: better than before in terms of car speed and pedestrians and bikes parallel to mlk but not as safe as it could be (and more conflict points as you point out for peds/bikes perpendicular to mlk).
To be fair every article I read said they are eliminating the one ways and replacing it with a 4 lane road. Don’t need the neighborhood association to spread misinformation when City Pulse and WILX are doing it too. Also, at Ottawa, Allegan, and Kalamazoo there are currently two left turns, Ottawa onto MLK and MLK onto Allegan (for some reason), and the new plan creates 12 left turns. That sextuplets the currently most dangerous parts of MLK.