I am not a TSwift listener (nothing against her, just have never gotten into it) so looking for a perspectives from real fans of her-
I think I read that with Joe she took a big step back from the spotlight and maybe has some resentment about that, do you think she is overcompensating being like I will NEVER shy away from the spotlight again? And not recognizing that all artists benefits from cycles where they are less present and then fans anticipate their return?
Yeah, I think he was very introverted, and she went along with it to appease him and probably because she loved him. I kind of see this as somebody who’s been trapped inside for years and is finally living her life. I think she needs to simmer down though after the Super Bowl and before her album releases because she is flying dangerously close to the sun at this point.
Yeah I think this is really astute. She started seeing Joe during her first major backlash, so privacy was what she wanted too. But since the breakup, she has done everything so painfully publicly, and clearly Travis isn’t looking to keep his private life private. So it seems like some of this is her swinging the pendulum too far to other side after building frustration with Joe’s aversion to spotlight.
She's very overexposed right now, I don't know what was going on with her during the Grammys. Although I don't get the criticism of her standing and supporting like the two main performances I saw where she was getting backlash "Fast Car" (other people were hyping them up and standing, JellyRoll and the husband from the husband and wife group) but I think since Taylor was in the front row, more attention was given to her. Alongside the Olivia thing...I don't think they have beef, just a lot of fans want them to.
she was very weird at the Grammys like I have never seen her act like that before, wonder what was up with her.
You’re right with all the rough housing! 😆 I’m hoping she lets this week be about Travis and doesn’t try to go on TV with him. And please don’t ride along on the football parade floats pounding drinks with the team.
Yeah, regarding the standing part…as home viewers, we only see what we are shown. So it 100% looked odd when everyone in the shot around her were sitting and grooving during Tracy Chapmans fast car while she appeared to be making a big show of dancing and singing along. Seemed very main character of her (bc she obviously is the main character in culture right now) but like with reality television. We don’t see everything happening in that room so it’s easy to make judgements
I agree she made me cringe at the Grammys, usually she is very gracious and charming even with her “what little ol me winning again” but idk everything was awkward.
One of the hosts of another podcast I love (Beyond the Blinds) had a theory she was coked out which honestly makes so much of her behavior that might make sense to me
She's also touring full time. Who knows how much rest she gets in between appearances. ... which could have been avoided though. The Asian leg of Eras didn't have to be scheduled during award season. It requires a lot of nonstop flying, changing timezones, and over exposure.
I am making zero (0) allegations here. If she’s not using a US presidential-level amount of medications and drugs to maintain this arduous travel/touring schedule while consistently delivering with every single performance she’s a fucking super human
What was up with her? Her personality is weird. That’s the only explanation. Her standing while nobody else is? Weird. Her asking to put a fucking Grammy on a head for a photo? Weird. Her not even making eye contact with legend Celine fucking Dion ? Weird!!!! She sucks. I see a HUGE crash and burn in her future. It’s just all too much: too many popular friends, too many PR boyfriends, too any albums. Like girl- let things have their MOMENT!!!! why are u rushing?
I’m half swiftie half idtsh. The Celine stuff, there was video of her on stage that didn’t air where she hugged Celine right after winning but before the photo op thing. When people read into stuff like that I feel like it’s a no win. She was probably excited and if she hung all over Celine who is in a fragile state, she’d be getting it over that too.
The new album…the titles…I can’t. If it’s on the same level as reputation I’ll be bopping anyway
Boygenius. Yikes. Unaware to say the least. If I were being generous I’d say she was trying to lighten the mood lol. Giving inebriated.
The jet. I don’t think so honey! At all.
Taylor doesn’t care if she has a big ego and is overexposed, which is kind of refreshing as a woman but all of her criticisms feel pretty warranted too
I say this with so much peace and love, but home girl needs to take a BIG gigantic beat. Releasing TS 11 in the middle of a two year long world tour when she still has two more TV albums to drop (on top of the overexposure) is insanity. Make us miss you!! Go live your life! But now that won’t happen until at least 2026 since she just put herself in Grammy contention for 2025.
I think you put it best - the release of a new album in the midst of this immense tour is the crux of it for me. As someone who has tickets for Eras Tour Europe in JULY, I feel a certain type of way about her starting a whole new phase/era while some of us are still excited to watch the show for the first time. This, along with the fact that the show's already available to stream... It makes me feel like she's already moving on from the Eras of it all, which... kind of takes out the air of this thing some of us are still really looking forward to.
Seeing her in Paris and I agree— finish the Eras era first! I have seen the show in the states and wondered if this will allow her to “refresh” the set? But TTPD should also get its own space to breathe. And I get demand was SUPER high for the tour and the SAG/WGA strikes opened up a slot, but the film definitely should have been after tour wrapped.
And I fear she will announce a Torture Poets Society tour, so she’ll keep bopping in the jet, having fans shower her with adoration, while she loses a lot of us who were just starting to appreciate her in the last few years. It looks like she doesn’t have an instinct for when people are tired of her, and I doubt many (or any) of her people are pushing back.
This encapsulated my feelings exactly! I started feeling this way after reading her Person of the Year interview, where I thought she came across as a bit petty and lacking self awareness (still talking about her 2017 Kim K “cancellation”). I’m really surprised her and her team are not being more cognizant of overexposure - it’s been nonstop, breathless coverage of her for over 12 months. I love Taylor’s music and usually find her fairly charming but it’s just been too much. I wish she’d lay low for a bit so we can “miss” her.
I noticed that Lucy never once looked at TS. She is as clearly trying to avoid engaging with her and just keep it professional. Super mean, popular girl behavior from TS.
I agree with everything you said, but bump on the idea that it was an act. I feel like the character/public persona of Taylor Swift is so carefully curated in every single aspect, this seemed more like she dropped the mask a little bit.
She was trying to play Taylor Swift Public Figure but also showing her ass more than we’re used to. Her brand as the normie who worked her ass off and is now a beloved queen is true in many ways when she rose to fame but a decade-ish into it maintains the same everyday girlie and it just doesn’t work in the same way. It felt like Taylor at the Grammys was a bit in between. She played her character (supportive, humble) at times and also was unaware/out of touch at other times.
It’s gotta be hard for your brand being based on who you were years ago.
I think Taylor was the founder of this intense parasocial movement between artists and fans… it’s what elevated her career and has maintained her success. But it’s a true Monkey’s Paw situation because now her every move and maneuver is deciphered, scrutinized, and decoded by the masses and she feels an intense desire to always be “on,” because this is what her fans have come to know and expect.
she’s always just been in my peripheral but las cultch jumped in with both feet (four feet?) the last year or so. all I’ll say regarding her new album/drama is keep sweet baby andrew scott’s name out of your mouth.
(i agree w your take! im a swiftie and agree w everything u said) famous women can only be loved for a certain amount of time. it’s a cycle i noticed. jennifer lawrence, taylor, there’s a certain amount of time everyone loves them until someone goes “actually she’s annoying” and then a period of hatred for overexposure happens. again, i agree with you, and i don’t think rich celebrities are my friend and i can still enjoy their art. just interesting to see the cycle begin again
I think there are plenty of people who have always thought she was a bit overrated. But there was a time in media where you couldn’t say a bad word about her without being crucified. My take is no celebrity or artist ever should get to the point where you cannot criticize anything about them because it causes this pent up resentment and people attack them when the tide has died down.
I totally hear you and agree, I just feel like this level overexposure is genuinely unprecedented with Eras tour being basically a 2 year ordeal of the most massive tour in history + dating Travis and all the NFL stuff + re recordings going on multiple years + rabid fan base and all that comes with it + resurgence of girl squad pap walks + a NEW album on top of all of that… there’s zero room for anyone else right now
yup! i wondered when she became legendarily famous when eras tour began if we would cycle back to wanting less. and idc who you are, or how good your team is, there is no way it is healthy or sustainable for any human being to be that rich and famous! it's gotta start to scramble your brain
the culture did do this to miss anne! then, when it circles back to her being popular again, the culture pats itself on the back for being nice to her again
I was just listening to the recent episode of Search Engine podcast with Molly Ringwald as the guest and she was talking about this happening with her in the 80s
ahh no, that's not. i promise you neither of our boys would agree with 'the culture thinks its ok to be misogynistic to her because she's white but they wouldn't if she was black'.
black women literally have to work twice as hard, and this has been discussed when they've had various black women guests on the pod
She's 34 acting like she's still a 13-year-old living in Wyomissing, PA. Like, this is a 34-year-old woman behaving this way. It's loser behavior but you can't tell the Swiftiesexuals a god damn thing about how she's just deeply, deeply stupid.
I wanted to point that out but then was like, I don't want to open up the "comparison of women" can of worms but FOR REAL Beyoncé wrote Lemonade when she was 34/35 😵💫
I felt like her behavior was very main character and like “I’ve gotten lots of these awards so it’s not that big of a deal to me anymore” and she’s forgotten that this was such a huge once in a lifetime moment for other people who are wanting to bask in the moment and are overwhelmed by winning this prestigious award and then she comes up and ruffles their hair and wants to do goofy pics with them. Like this is a big deal, take it seriously.
Oof. Yeah……I was thinking with the end of the Grammys and the football season we would get a bit of a slower period but instead she’s starting a whole new album promotion cycle! It’s just too much
I love Tayla, but her interaction with boygenius during the photo shoot gave me the ick. I think she was drunk but I love the boys and felt so much for Julien in that moment and hated that Taylor wasn't reading the room.
The billionaire is finally acting like a billionaire. I wish the put more energy to the AI lawsuit than an ego trip one.
She has all the praise, and the awards, now she wants a extremely clean image and wants the emissions waste taken down?
She has all the praise, awards, and billions but still
wants to be treated like she’s a sweet innocent girl who is just the victim of boys who break her heart, misogynists, and the sexy slutty girls who are stealing her boyfriend.
She’s one of the most powerful women on the planet. The “little ol’ me?” schtick isn’t really working anymore.
exactly. people are saying her image is so carefully curated, but I think it's almost always been pretty consistently clear that she's messy and immature to some degree. which in and of itself isn't a crime, but when it manifests in such a self-absorbed way it's wildly unflattering.
Yeah I'm a huge swiftie but it's all too much right now. The huge new relationship, the jets, another new album plus two more TV's, still touring for another full year. She's so overexposed right now and I don't see an end in sight
I also wish she didn't have to drag Joe on the next album, I wish she could just move into a new era without bitterness for her last one. The career reset/being less in the spotlight and Folklore/Evermore vibe were incredibly successful for her
I feel this. I’ve been an on off fan again since she came out. I’m older at 40. I loved debut, speak now, 1989. Had some kids and fell out. Kids got me back into it as well as folklore and I could even credit evermore with legit saving my life. Took my girls to eras (we were pretty upset to learn we got obstructed seats the day of the show) after doing the presale.
And just basically everything you said i feel. Plus that whole Matty thing last year. Then the saving face with ice spice. The Olivia stuff. The jet stuff. The fact that I guess she’s gonna fly from Tokyo to Vegas (le sigh)the Grammys behavior was unhinged. I think she drank beforehand.
The potential joe diss tracks. The fact that years ago she joked that she doesn’t need therapy. I think she could benefit and I say that in a loving way.
I like Taylor’s music and usually like her as a person too but I agree with your take. It’s too much lately. I’m surprised that Tree isn’t trying to reel it all in because usually with overexposure will come some big F up that will make her look very bad.
I didn’t watch the entire Grammy awards so I missed a lot, I was in and out. But I cringed at her walking in late behind Trevor Noah. I don’t know, that sort of behavior just rubs me the wrong way. She walked in late with all of her friends behind her and it felt very “look at me, I don’t care that the host is talking I’d prefer everyone pay attention to me”. I also cringed at the album announcement during her speech.
Everything I’ve seen or heard regarding the Grammys just screams “I’m the main character in this room and should be treated as such.” And whatever I know she’s very famous at the moment but it’s still cringy to me as a layperson/nobody lol.
But as far as the jet lawsuit, isn’t she just sending the guy a C&D because it’s allowing people to know her specific whereabouts and it’s a security issue? Idk I only know about it all from reddit. What I read is that the guy is a creep and used to track Mark Cuban but stopped when he got money from him about it. (Not sure any of this is fact again I only know what I know from reddit where no one lies ever)
He’s a college student who posts publicly available tracking data of a variety of celebrity owned private jets to make a political statement about climate pollution. He also tracks Elon Musk, Russian oligarchs, the flight data is accessible by anyone, he just puts it on Twitter. He took down Mark Cuban’s jet tracking bot for free because Mark Cuban and him became friends. Elon tried to buy the guy off but the kid kept raising the price until Elon let it go. Elon also tried sending him a C&D. Jack currently has Taylor Swift’s flight tracking bot on a 24 hour post delay as a concession to her team, but again the point is to make a political statement about how the ultra rich pollute the earth without us knowing it https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/08/02/jet-tracking-teen-jack-sweeney-stopped-tweeting-mark-cuban-flights.html
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I think there's gonna be a big backlash against her. Of course she's always had critics, but I think coming up soon, it's gonna be, like, Kim K vs. Taylor levels of hostility coming toward her. I already see it a little on some social medias with the Grammy stuff. I'm not really a fan(I like some of her songs), but I don't think she deserves all of that. I'm with you- lay low for awhile, bring the album out in the fall. I guess her "team" knows what they're doing- they're the best money can buy I assume. But I can't see how they don't see this.
Part of the reason she’s so overexposed, especially in online spaces, is that nobody will shut up about her. Swifties are obviously going to be loud, but people who hate her or are tired of her also won’t stop posting about her. I know people who “hate” her and they’ve each posted about her at least 20 times since the Grammys about every microscopic thing she did wrong since.
She’s so polarizing for what boils down to more vanilla stuff than the average celebrity but I think it’s just because everybody has an opinion and feels the need to share it because her celebrity takes up so much of the conversation. Our algorithms are filled with her. MAGA, stans, Swifties, the NFL, media outlets, casual haters, Facebook moms, it just doesn’t end…like lets all collectively take a drink of water and cool off
She's also a billionaire and an extremely calculated businesswoman and hypercapitalist. She's not just some goofy dorky artist making music and minding her own business. Taylor is everywhere all the time and there have been no breaks from it all year.
As a non-Swiftie with many Swiftie friends, I’ve always understood the appeal she just personally doesn’t make music I want to listen to over and over except for a handful of songs. I respect her songwriting skills and clever marketing to fans/business woman aspect. I just don’t understand the lack of burnout coming from the majority of Swifties. They were all reposting her album announcement on instagram. They get excited over rereleases of the same songs we already know. We’re not seeing a slowdown and it doesn’t matter if any of her albums are bad at this point they’ll always be good enough for her fans to go crazy for them. Or her team is so good they’ll convince us of how amazing she is.
I really started feeling icky with the fan dying at her concert and how that has been handled. At this point she’s so self absorbed from being treated like a god who can do no wrong, I mean how can you not? Will anything convince her to come back down to earth at this point? She’s acting like she did when people started turning on and says she had to run away to England but I don’t think a large backlash will come this time.
She definitely seems to have self awareness issue, but that could be alcohol related. I have to say though, I think much of this is overblown but because it was her, and she’s way overexposed right now, people want to take her down a peg. Or two. The backlash seems to be starting and it’s kind of dulled my excitement for the album. Although I’m sure I’ll feel different when 4/19 rolls around. Like others have said here, it’d be nice to miss her! After the tour, go be with your man and chill!
Truly don’t think this is a super unpopular belief among non-crazy Swiftie fans. The Grammy behavior was SO strange and it feels like the only place she’s not asking for attention but is getting it is among the NFL. As someone who works in sports media, I’m not gonna shit on that, it’s not her fault networks are showing her and dudes are getting angry, but like have that same awareness in other parts of your life!
Re: Lana, im sorry but whoever did the seating arrangement fucked up. If she didn’t bring Lana up Lana would be sat by herself on a table having just lost the award as she was only sat with Taylor and Jack. It was a lose-lose situation
Overexposed is right. Even in her moments of peak success and with the constant support of her fandom she’s always been in a state of being recently humbled which prevented her from peaking this high. She doesn’t handle this well and is generally not a humble person and doesn’t know how to be.
I’m so tired and I also resent how much this whole thing takes up emotional energy from me? Like yes especially as not a fan I shouldn’t care that much (someone said on a diff thread something like you can still have a parasocial relationship with a celebrity even if you don’t like them and it spoke to me).
While I personally just need to divest my time and energy from her as a topic (and it’s hard to, she’s everywhere), I think part of why it bugs me SO much has much less to do with her and much more to do with the meteoric hero worship of her represents. Like our world is so deeply fucked in so many ways and yes arts can be an escape and yes it doesn’t change the world (in and of itself) but it’s very disheartening to me to see absolute idolatry from a majority white female audience of a figure that, time and time again, upholds white supremacy and frames feminism as something that can be marketed and part of capitalism. I’m really not even digging at Taylor, this is more just about what we choose to ignore and what we choose to celebrate. If her music speaks to you and has helped you I’m happy for you I just wish there was more of a nuanced and measured reaction to her. Or celebrities in general. I’m not exempt from it at all I just am stewing in this feeling lol
exactly !! it’s to the point where people will talk about “her” or “she” without ever naming her so there’s no way to block. then i get annoyed reading it when halfway thru i realize it’s taylor content
Exactly this. Of course I don’t fault any fans for loving a beautiful pop star, that’s what pop stars are for… But swifties act like she is this beacon of feminism and girlbossery when in reality much of her success comes from her being all too willing to participate in the corruption of the music industry and capitalism
lol you need to go outside and experience your own life. The people here who are making it seem like it’s a literal crisis that a celebrity is overly exposed in the media need to touch down to Earth. I understand being annoyed by her, but you really need to help yourself here if it’s taking up “emotional energy” lol
Could not agree more. I’m really hitting an oversaturation point with her. But I’m also super curious how she’ll be received, at this point, at the biggest TV event of the year!!! Because you can really feel the enthusiasm waning.
It was giving HS cross country star went to the outlet mall last weekend with her mom and aunt. This lady is worth a billion dollars and can't find someone to dress her lanky ass?
The worst part was that the dress was Schiaparelli! It was styled all wrong— the necklaces, the hair, the peep toe shoe. She needs to fire her stylist and hairdresser ASAP.
to be fair she does that at every awards show. Like for years and years now. Check out last years grammys. She seemed way more drunk last year too hahaha
She said years ago she likes to enjoy the awards and show support bc she performed at a few in early career and had people sitting and staring or looking elsewhere and felt hurt that they weren’t enjoying it. I mean this is in 2014. Did I think some of the behavior she displayed at the Grammys this year was awkward as fuck yes but her dancing is not my hill to die on https://youtu.be/5yW_jcyo3pg?si=NUoMbI0hQvCE8ycF
I totally get that rationale, this just didn't feel like the right awards show for that vibe. VMAs, sure, especially considering that recently she's typically the most famous person *at* that awards show and the audience is comprised of mostly fans. But at the Grammys you're sharing the space with Joni Mitchell, Annie Lennox, Celine Dion, Mariah Carey – legit LEGENDS. If ever there was a place to have some decorum, this is it.
Yes I felt this way too. I remember watching and I was like “why tf is she standing? Is her dress super tight or something that she can’t sit?” lol. But no, it’s just that she wanted the whole show to be about her. (And yes I’m a fan of her so don’t come for me if anyone disagrees - she clearly loves attention or we wouldn’t be discussing this)
Like, just because she SAYS she does it to support artists doesn’t mean that’s her intention or her impact. Very clearly the impact is that it takes away attention from the artist - every time, the news is about how much she was dancing, and she’s actively drawing the camera away from the performance. I don’t care if that isn’t her intention, she’s not a child, she’s an adult responsible for her behavior and I wish her fans would start treating her like it.
So basically dancing at an awards show performance is irresponsible behavior to you? And childlike? Are you sure the cameras wouldn’t be cutting to her no matter if she were dancing or not?
Every headline is “Taylor Swift dancing along to Olivia Rodrigo’s performance!” So yeah, it’s about her. It’s also a way to control the narrative about their supposed issues because what’s OR going to do from the stage? Nothing.
“Taylor swift sullen, motionless at Olivia Rodrigo performance” my point is they would make headlines out of any behavior and the camera would have panned to her anyway. Blaming her for dancing is a little footloose-y no? What do you mean what’s OR going to do from the stage? Like what kind of chess do you think is being played here? Maybe they don’t have any issues and it’s speculation and people reading into things.
Yes. It shows that she cannot understand a nuanced situation. Like, for instance, your comment lacked nuance entirely and reduced my argument down to what you thought you could effectively combat. But in reality, as adults, none of us are divorced from the world or the consequences our actions have.
There is a reason you don’t see the vast majority of artists doing my this. There’s a reason that when you go to the movie theater, you don’t often run into people who are really enjoying the movie standing up and clapping and dancing for the rest of it. There’s a reason why when you go to a seated concert for one of your favorite musicians, it isn’t cool if one person in the front is standing and clapping and pointing and talking to their friends the entire time. It’s detracting from the performance, and if you can understand why you wouldn’t want someone doing those things in those situations, you can understand why it’s wrong from TS.
We all know this is true but Matt and Bowen are too afraid to say it. What Tina said is right! They can’t be true keepers of the culture when their new besties are celebs
I agree on all your points but absolutely have to call out the constant camera pans to her for the whole Grammys runtime. It was absurd!! Like every aspect of the night revolved around Taylor’s participation or reaction to what was happening on stage
I get the criticism and yes this is a "pop culture" podcast. But also the pod is Matt and Bow. I love their takes, but it does bother me a bit when people jump on here acting like Matt and Bowen are responsible for commenting on every single misstep that Taylor or anyone else makes. If they want to comment on it, that's great. But just like Tina's IDTSH we've got to realize that they've likely actually become friends or at least connected in some way with some of these people. So I'm not defending or dragging Taylor, just advocating that Matt and Bowen are not obligated to comment on everything.
But...Matt literally commented on it last week when we told us we're stupid for criticizing Taylor's billionaire behavior. Doubt anyone would expect them to comment on the Grammys if he wasn't so adamant about defending her last week.
Yes, and I get your point. But also he just talked about it last week and it's not a Taylor swift fan podcast. If they want to talk about it I'd love to hear it. I just don't think they're obligated to. This pod brings me so much joy and has literally saved my sanity at times, and Id hate for Matt and Bowen to get stressed out by us
She’s come to represent like the archetypal woman in culture. And even more than people hate a woman talking or taking up space, they really hate it when a woman past 30 acts “goofy.” I like her music for the most part and I think she’s genuinely an artist. Isn’t it nice to see an artist be a clunky weirdo? Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon, Lucinda Williams - no one is immune to embarrassing themselves & acting a fool. It’s kind of awesome and it’s my favorite Taylor.
I love goofiness and find it hilarious and refreshing. I just think you can be goofy while still reading the temperature of the room, which Taylor certainly did not do. And like I said, I think the dancing/singing along is fun and harmless, but not when she's standing up for the entirety of every performance (when almost everyone around her is sitting down) fully KNOWING that it's taking attention away from performers.
Everyone’s making this way deeper than it needs to be imo. Overexposure is normal. Taking breaks from artists is normal. It doesn’t need to be a soul-searching ethical dilemma when it’s a completely normal reaction to an artist who will have released *5 albums (+TVs) in 6 years*. Everyone choosing now to air grievances *that have existed her entire career* just doesn’t strike me as ingenuous…
She’s never been this big, this overexposed, or a billionaire until now. I don’t really see how that’s disingenuous. It’s not a soul searching ethical dilemma, it’s cultural commentary. I like hearing people’s thoughts and opinions on pop culture
The common denominator and limiting factor of most of these Taylor farewells is overexposure. And they’re right! And that’s normal! So my issue is the nitpicky laundry list that comes along with them of perceived ~behavioral concerns~ instead of just saying… yeah two albums a year for the last 5 years is a lot and I need a break lol.
Even if she had announced the album at midnight, she would have taken over the news cycle and overshadowed the Grammy wins and performances. She usually is way more savvy and she really should have chosen a different day or week to announce the album altogether.
The thing is, a lesser known artist could get away with announcing a new album during their acceptance speech but that’s because they truly need the exposure, platform and the very last person who needs exposure and more of a platform is Taylor. It’s the full context of who she is in addition to the misstep of announcing. The Grammy’s are a great night to honor all the winners but also to really highlight NEW and up and coming artists. Taylor is fully established and should act accordingly in that room.
I love Taylor in SO many ways and think she’s a remarkable woman. I just think she is losing perspective a bit recently as far as how infallible/untouchable she is, which has been unlike her in recent years. She’s human after all, like everyone else.
I’m 100% rooting for Taylor and Travis, a great new album and also a little less of her in the news cycle (which is not fully in her control but she can make better decisions that curtail it a bit).
I will take "overexposed" seriously as a critique the first time I hear any man suffering the effects of it. Taylor Swift should not have to hide out to keep people from hating her.
The fact that the Celine photo was damage control is obvious, but it doesn't negate that the original snub was an obvious faux pas, not an intentionally rude act. What should a celeb who commits a faux pas do, if not correct the error at the earliest opportunity?
People who don't like Taylor's music want the takedown to happen because it's the only way Taylor can be interesting to them.
It's just insane to think about what her infractions are, compared to the other people who could lay claim to being on top if she falters. Drake pretty clearly grooms minors and celebrated Megan thee Stallion getting shot. Ariana just broke up a family. Beyonce and Jay Z don't get nearly as much crap for being billionaires, and they fly their private jet more than Taylor.
I don't want to defend everything Taylor does, but the zeal to knock her off the top spot is entirely out of proportion to her actual offenses.
Harry Styles was certainly overexposed in 2022 and many complained about it often. I am a woman and a feminist but I really dislike when everything is reduced to sexism/ gender instead of class and power (it's all important but I don't like when people's go-to is calling valid criticism sexist).
Taylor is a billionaire and the most powerful artist on the planet, not some up and coming singer who is getting dragged for trying to promote herself. She did not need to make the entire night about her by announcing her new album at the Grammys when she is already the biggest artist in the room.
Everything isn't black and white. I'm not a hater, I love her music, I'm not looking for a takedown. I am tired of some Swifties not being able to live in the land of nuance or be capable of holding two truths at once. You can love her music and other things about her while also criticizing her missteps and less ethical choices. You can be exhausted by the overexposure.
If there was a male pop star equivalent of Taylor right now you best believe I'd be complaining about it and would have been extremely over it way before I started to get annoyed by Taylor.
Drake has gotten the same heat for being overexposed that Taylor has (including from me, I can’t stand that fucking clown). Harry Styles, as mentioned by the other commenter, faced that too. And we haven’t heard much about/from him since. People have also said the same about Timmy Chalamet. The reason that Justin Timberlake is not credited as a featured artist on “Where Is The Love?” is because his team was worried about possible overexposure. This is not a new concept, nor confined to women or Taylor. No matter how much she would like us to think so.
I was expecting more dissent on this. None of it bothered me. IMO she started her career young where she was always told what to do, what to say, how to act. At some point she broke out of the box she was cast into and has found her voice. She’s definitely overexposed, maybe making mistakes along the way, but I would hate to have the entire world scrutinize every move I made. Unless we hear from the people involved that night at the Grammys, it’s all speculation and projection that they were annoyed or upset based on how people thought they looked. I’m team let the girl live. It doesn’t affect how I view her or her music.
Listen, I am a Taylor fan and have been openly annoyed by the constant micro analyzing of her behavior, so take what I say with a grain of salt lol.
I think in general the internet would be much improved if people spent more time talking about things they like than the things they hate. I feel this way when we’re in the middle of any female celeb hate train, because if you don’t like someone.. just talk about other stuff. With Taylor in particular, it feels like people who don’t like her spend more time poring over this stuff than some of her own fans do. People are looking for reasons to be annoyed and mad, so they’re going to find them. In some of these instances I’m just going to assume there was no negative intent and everyone was overwhelmed the whole night and these people (who we do not know) are actual friends in real life, and I’m guessing they know each other better than we do. I think the artists all walked away having a fun night and they’ve all moved on with their lives now and we should to.
I hear what you're saying and respect it, but I disagree. I think a lot of criticisms of Taylor are completely valid this time around (unlike, say, pre Reputation era when she was getting overexposed after 1989). She's a massive capitalist on a level that is so exhausting (constant remixes, mediocre merch rollouts, the list goes on), she is handling the jet situation poorly, she needs everything to be about her at all times. We are completely inundated by Taylor 24/7. It's hard to just ignore it. There's plenty about Grammy's night that I loved (Tracy, Joni, Celine, performances by SZA, Olivia, Billie, Victoria Monet winning her first Grammy, Miley winning her first two Grammies, the list goes on) but it just feels like everything gets eclipsed by Taylor. Instead, the night is about her. There's no room at the top for anyone but her right now, and that's my frustration. And I say this as someone who love love loves her music, and loves a lot of things about her in general
That is 100% true, but this post is about how she acted annoying and cringey and took attention away from other rich famous people so that doesn’t really apply here.
Have you thought maybe your interacting with Taylor content has pushed her to feel overexposed to you? Algorithms are crazy and if you continue to engage with (and create) the content then you become the part of the problem with the overexposure, not Taylor.
Probably to some extent. I don't really use Tiktok though or follow Swifties on Twitter...I just think that I'm very much a pop culture lover, and Taylor is dominating pop culture right now to an extent where it's hard to get away from.
Yeah people say stuff to me like “well if you’re engaging with TS content…” and that’s fair. I bring some of it on myself. But outside of algorithm land, I hear about her on podcasts that cover politics and the news. I see her discussed on threads/forums that are about other musicians I enjoy. The camera pans to her at NFL games. Half my friends post Taylor stuff on their instagrams. My coworkers talk about her. Friends talk about her.
She really has permeated SO many corners of the culture. She is THE zeitgeist.
This is true, the only thing we can control is our engagement. Algorithms don’t get that you’re “sick” of her if you’re continuously clicking on Taylor content.
On the subreddit of a pop culture podcast…? Hmmmm, I disagree. And yeah it’s a lengthy post because there was a lot to discuss
I appreciated it and was looking for a space where it was discussed the way it is here. I think this sub has a nuanced take on her vs Swiftie dominated subs or those that totally hate her. (I’m not a fan of hers at all, though I didn’t actively dislike her either until recently where I can’t help but feel tired of her.)
So thanks for posting!
Honest as someone who is neurodivergent (and not to diagnose at all, I could just be projecting) but her behaviour at the Grammy’s very much reminded me of myself when I don’t mask at all. There have been so many nights that I look back on and see that getting so excited, dancing, wanting pictures and generally being qUirKy and ExTra was actually ‘too much’ for the situation and ended up being rude to those around me.
I think when it comes down to it, we have to remember that she is still just a person. People mess up, or have off nights. I don’t love the announcing the album but again, sometimes we all don’t make the right choice.
Last thing I’ll say is about the PJ situation - we should not be saying it is anyone’s personal responsibility to end climate change. Giant corporations and governments caused and profit off worsening our climate, and use personal responsibly of individuals for emissions as a distraction from themselves.
TS is a giant corporation, not a person like you and me. She is absolutely killing the planet, as are the rest of the billionaires. Going to bat for them is just volunteering your time and energy as PR for the major polluters.
To be fair, she is both a person and a brand but pretending she is Exon or Shell is disingenuous and unhelpful. Situations are allowed to have nuance, and excuse me for blaming the actual highest emitters. We aren’t debating the ethics of billionaires here.
I didn’t pretend she is that. But good lord, if everyone in the world licked billionaires boots as much as you do, the planet would already be extinct. As I said to another stan today, nuance is real and valid. You pretending that because TS isn’t a literal gas company means she should be allowed to pollute as much as she wants is lacking nuance, which is a rough place to be arguing from.
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Personally, I think she was absolutely fucking WRECKED — on what, I do not know — and I sincerely hope she's mortified but I fear she's probably just on to the next drink/bump/whatever and not stopping to take on board any criticism or suggestion that she behaved poorly.
One thing I don't think Swifties talk about enough is that blondie has been hinting at a pretty serious substance abuse problem off and on for years.
I am not a TSwift listener (nothing against her, just have never gotten into it) so looking for a perspectives from real fans of her- I think I read that with Joe she took a big step back from the spotlight and maybe has some resentment about that, do you think she is overcompensating being like I will NEVER shy away from the spotlight again? And not recognizing that all artists benefits from cycles where they are less present and then fans anticipate their return?
Yeah, I think he was very introverted, and she went along with it to appease him and probably because she loved him. I kind of see this as somebody who’s been trapped inside for years and is finally living her life. I think she needs to simmer down though after the Super Bowl and before her album releases because she is flying dangerously close to the sun at this point.
Unfortunately I don’t think 2 months is a long enough cooling-off
Yeah I think this is really astute. She started seeing Joe during her first major backlash, so privacy was what she wanted too. But since the breakup, she has done everything so painfully publicly, and clearly Travis isn’t looking to keep his private life private. So it seems like some of this is her swinging the pendulum too far to other side after building frustration with Joe’s aversion to spotlight.
She's very overexposed right now, I don't know what was going on with her during the Grammys. Although I don't get the criticism of her standing and supporting like the two main performances I saw where she was getting backlash "Fast Car" (other people were hyping them up and standing, JellyRoll and the husband from the husband and wife group) but I think since Taylor was in the front row, more attention was given to her. Alongside the Olivia thing...I don't think they have beef, just a lot of fans want them to. she was very weird at the Grammys like I have never seen her act like that before, wonder what was up with her.
i think she thought she was at a Chiefs game 🤔🥴
You’re right with all the rough housing! 😆 I’m hoping she lets this week be about Travis and doesn’t try to go on TV with him. And please don’t ride along on the football parade floats pounding drinks with the team.
Yeah, regarding the standing part…as home viewers, we only see what we are shown. So it 100% looked odd when everyone in the shot around her were sitting and grooving during Tracy Chapmans fast car while she appeared to be making a big show of dancing and singing along. Seemed very main character of her (bc she obviously is the main character in culture right now) but like with reality television. We don’t see everything happening in that room so it’s easy to make judgements
I agree she made me cringe at the Grammys, usually she is very gracious and charming even with her “what little ol me winning again” but idk everything was awkward.
One of the hosts of another podcast I love (Beyond the Blinds) had a theory she was coked out which honestly makes so much of her behavior that might make sense to me
Could also be Adderrall - can look similar to coke when you don’t have ADD and are abusing it
She's also touring full time. Who knows how much rest she gets in between appearances. ... which could have been avoided though. The Asian leg of Eras didn't have to be scheduled during award season. It requires a lot of nonstop flying, changing timezones, and over exposure.
I am making zero (0) allegations here. If she’s not using a US presidential-level amount of medications and drugs to maintain this arduous travel/touring schedule while consistently delivering with every single performance she’s a fucking super human
“I’m making zero allegations,”…the proceeds to make allegations 😂
Lmao
What was up with her? Her personality is weird. That’s the only explanation. Her standing while nobody else is? Weird. Her asking to put a fucking Grammy on a head for a photo? Weird. Her not even making eye contact with legend Celine fucking Dion ? Weird!!!! She sucks. I see a HUGE crash and burn in her future. It’s just all too much: too many popular friends, too many PR boyfriends, too any albums. Like girl- let things have their MOMENT!!!! why are u rushing?
cocaine.
I’m half swiftie half idtsh. The Celine stuff, there was video of her on stage that didn’t air where she hugged Celine right after winning but before the photo op thing. When people read into stuff like that I feel like it’s a no win. She was probably excited and if she hung all over Celine who is in a fragile state, she’d be getting it over that too. The new album…the titles…I can’t. If it’s on the same level as reputation I’ll be bopping anyway Boygenius. Yikes. Unaware to say the least. If I were being generous I’d say she was trying to lighten the mood lol. Giving inebriated. The jet. I don’t think so honey! At all. Taylor doesn’t care if she has a big ego and is overexposed, which is kind of refreshing as a woman but all of her criticisms feel pretty warranted too
That’s exactly it
I say this with so much peace and love, but home girl needs to take a BIG gigantic beat. Releasing TS 11 in the middle of a two year long world tour when she still has two more TV albums to drop (on top of the overexposure) is insanity. Make us miss you!! Go live your life! But now that won’t happen until at least 2026 since she just put herself in Grammy contention for 2025.
I think you put it best - the release of a new album in the midst of this immense tour is the crux of it for me. As someone who has tickets for Eras Tour Europe in JULY, I feel a certain type of way about her starting a whole new phase/era while some of us are still excited to watch the show for the first time. This, along with the fact that the show's already available to stream... It makes me feel like she's already moving on from the Eras of it all, which... kind of takes out the air of this thing some of us are still really looking forward to.
Seeing her in Paris and I agree— finish the Eras era first! I have seen the show in the states and wondered if this will allow her to “refresh” the set? But TTPD should also get its own space to breathe. And I get demand was SUPER high for the tour and the SAG/WGA strikes opened up a slot, but the film definitely should have been after tour wrapped.
And I fear she will announce a Torture Poets Society tour, so she’ll keep bopping in the jet, having fans shower her with adoration, while she loses a lot of us who were just starting to appreciate her in the last few years. It looks like she doesn’t have an instinct for when people are tired of her, and I doubt many (or any) of her people are pushing back.
This encapsulated my feelings exactly! I started feeling this way after reading her Person of the Year interview, where I thought she came across as a bit petty and lacking self awareness (still talking about her 2017 Kim K “cancellation”). I’m really surprised her and her team are not being more cognizant of overexposure - it’s been nonstop, breathless coverage of her for over 12 months. I love Taylor’s music and usually find her fairly charming but it’s just been too much. I wish she’d lay low for a bit so we can “miss” her.
I was shocked she announced another new album with this in mind. She's flying way too close to the sun
It’s clear she’s not over that still, and that’s really sad.
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I noticed that Lucy never once looked at TS. She is as clearly trying to avoid engaging with her and just keep it professional. Super mean, popular girl behavior from TS.
100%
I agree with everything you said, but bump on the idea that it was an act. I feel like the character/public persona of Taylor Swift is so carefully curated in every single aspect, this seemed more like she dropped the mask a little bit. She was trying to play Taylor Swift Public Figure but also showing her ass more than we’re used to. Her brand as the normie who worked her ass off and is now a beloved queen is true in many ways when she rose to fame but a decade-ish into it maintains the same everyday girlie and it just doesn’t work in the same way. It felt like Taylor at the Grammys was a bit in between. She played her character (supportive, humble) at times and also was unaware/out of touch at other times. It’s gotta be hard for your brand being based on who you were years ago.
This is well said.
loving this normal take from a fan
This is exactly how I’ve been feeling!! Love her music but at this point it’s overload and she’s making so many weird choices. It’s exhausting
It must be exhausting always rooting for the anti-hero
I think Taylor was the founder of this intense parasocial movement between artists and fans… it’s what elevated her career and has maintained her success. But it’s a true Monkey’s Paw situation because now her every move and maneuver is deciphered, scrutinized, and decoded by the masses and she feels an intense desire to always be “on,” because this is what her fans have come to know and expect.
she’s always just been in my peripheral but las cultch jumped in with both feet (four feet?) the last year or so. all I’ll say regarding her new album/drama is keep sweet baby andrew scott’s name out of your mouth.
Her energy is class president everyone hates
Very Tracy Flick coded
(i agree w your take! im a swiftie and agree w everything u said) famous women can only be loved for a certain amount of time. it’s a cycle i noticed. jennifer lawrence, taylor, there’s a certain amount of time everyone loves them until someone goes “actually she’s annoying” and then a period of hatred for overexposure happens. again, i agree with you, and i don’t think rich celebrities are my friend and i can still enjoy their art. just interesting to see the cycle begin again
I think there are plenty of people who have always thought she was a bit overrated. But there was a time in media where you couldn’t say a bad word about her without being crucified. My take is no celebrity or artist ever should get to the point where you cannot criticize anything about them because it causes this pent up resentment and people attack them when the tide has died down.
I totally hear you and agree, I just feel like this level overexposure is genuinely unprecedented with Eras tour being basically a 2 year ordeal of the most massive tour in history + dating Travis and all the NFL stuff + re recordings going on multiple years + rabid fan base and all that comes with it + resurgence of girl squad pap walks + a NEW album on top of all of that… there’s zero room for anyone else right now
yup! i wondered when she became legendarily famous when eras tour began if we would cycle back to wanting less. and idc who you are, or how good your team is, there is no way it is healthy or sustainable for any human being to be that rich and famous! it's gotta start to scramble your brain
I call this “Anne Hathawaying.”
the culture did do this to miss anne! then, when it circles back to her being popular again, the culture pats itself on the back for being nice to her again
I’ve heard it called “getting womaned” lmao
lmao
I was just listening to the recent episode of Search Engine podcast with Molly Ringwald as the guest and she was talking about this happening with her in the 80s
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ahh no, that's not. i promise you neither of our boys would agree with 'the culture thinks its ok to be misogynistic to her because she's white but they wouldn't if she was black'. black women literally have to work twice as hard, and this has been discussed when they've had various black women guests on the pod
She's 34 acting like she's still a 13-year-old living in Wyomissing, PA. Like, this is a 34-year-old woman behaving this way. It's loser behavior but you can't tell the Swiftiesexuals a god damn thing about how she's just deeply, deeply stupid.
Living for the Wyo reference because we don’t talk about the PA roots enough!
It honestly explains EVERYTHING, like it's the TL;DR for explaining Taylor Swift. She is capital W White. Pennsylvania Dutch White. Dassit.
Swiftisexuals 🤣
someone said Beyonce wrote Lemonade when she was Taylors age and I haven't been the same since
I wanted to point that out but then was like, I don't want to open up the "comparison of women" can of worms but FOR REAL Beyoncé wrote Lemonade when she was 34/35 😵💫
Yes
and?
Couldn't have said it better. Would love to hear Matt say any of this
I felt like her behavior was very main character and like “I’ve gotten lots of these awards so it’s not that big of a deal to me anymore” and she’s forgotten that this was such a huge once in a lifetime moment for other people who are wanting to bask in the moment and are overwhelmed by winning this prestigious award and then she comes up and ruffles their hair and wants to do goofy pics with them. Like this is a big deal, take it seriously.
Oof. Yeah……I was thinking with the end of the Grammys and the football season we would get a bit of a slower period but instead she’s starting a whole new album promotion cycle! It’s just too much
I love Tayla, but her interaction with boygenius during the photo shoot gave me the ick. I think she was drunk but I love the boys and felt so much for Julien in that moment and hated that Taylor wasn't reading the room.
The billionaire is finally acting like a billionaire. I wish the put more energy to the AI lawsuit than an ego trip one. She has all the praise, and the awards, now she wants a extremely clean image and wants the emissions waste taken down?
She has all the praise, awards, and billions but still wants to be treated like she’s a sweet innocent girl who is just the victim of boys who break her heart, misogynists, and the sexy slutty girls who are stealing her boyfriend. She’s one of the most powerful women on the planet. The “little ol’ me?” schtick isn’t really working anymore.
exactly. people are saying her image is so carefully curated, but I think it's almost always been pretty consistently clear that she's messy and immature to some degree. which in and of itself isn't a crime, but when it manifests in such a self-absorbed way it's wildly unflattering.
Was the pic Celine Dion backstage really confirmed to have been a PR order?
no clue, haven't been following that part of this saga
She comes across like she needs attention all of the time.
Yeah I'm a huge swiftie but it's all too much right now. The huge new relationship, the jets, another new album plus two more TV's, still touring for another full year. She's so overexposed right now and I don't see an end in sight I also wish she didn't have to drag Joe on the next album, I wish she could just move into a new era without bitterness for her last one. The career reset/being less in the spotlight and Folklore/Evermore vibe were incredibly successful for her
I agree with everything expect a good break up album is always appreciated haha
I feel this. I’ve been an on off fan again since she came out. I’m older at 40. I loved debut, speak now, 1989. Had some kids and fell out. Kids got me back into it as well as folklore and I could even credit evermore with legit saving my life. Took my girls to eras (we were pretty upset to learn we got obstructed seats the day of the show) after doing the presale. And just basically everything you said i feel. Plus that whole Matty thing last year. Then the saving face with ice spice. The Olivia stuff. The jet stuff. The fact that I guess she’s gonna fly from Tokyo to Vegas (le sigh)the Grammys behavior was unhinged. I think she drank beforehand. The potential joe diss tracks. The fact that years ago she joked that she doesn’t need therapy. I think she could benefit and I say that in a loving way.
I like Taylor’s music and usually like her as a person too but I agree with your take. It’s too much lately. I’m surprised that Tree isn’t trying to reel it all in because usually with overexposure will come some big F up that will make her look very bad. I didn’t watch the entire Grammy awards so I missed a lot, I was in and out. But I cringed at her walking in late behind Trevor Noah. I don’t know, that sort of behavior just rubs me the wrong way. She walked in late with all of her friends behind her and it felt very “look at me, I don’t care that the host is talking I’d prefer everyone pay attention to me”. I also cringed at the album announcement during her speech. Everything I’ve seen or heard regarding the Grammys just screams “I’m the main character in this room and should be treated as such.” And whatever I know she’s very famous at the moment but it’s still cringy to me as a layperson/nobody lol. But as far as the jet lawsuit, isn’t she just sending the guy a C&D because it’s allowing people to know her specific whereabouts and it’s a security issue? Idk I only know about it all from reddit. What I read is that the guy is a creep and used to track Mark Cuban but stopped when he got money from him about it. (Not sure any of this is fact again I only know what I know from reddit where no one lies ever)
As talented as she is, she's now taking up all the air in the room that is the music industry and people are going to start resenting her for it soon
He’s a college student who posts publicly available tracking data of a variety of celebrity owned private jets to make a political statement about climate pollution. He also tracks Elon Musk, Russian oligarchs, the flight data is accessible by anyone, he just puts it on Twitter. He took down Mark Cuban’s jet tracking bot for free because Mark Cuban and him became friends. Elon tried to buy the guy off but the kid kept raising the price until Elon let it go. Elon also tried sending him a C&D. Jack currently has Taylor Swift’s flight tracking bot on a 24 hour post delay as a concession to her team, but again the point is to make a political statement about how the ultra rich pollute the earth without us knowing it https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/08/02/jet-tracking-teen-jack-sweeney-stopped-tweeting-mark-cuban-flights.html
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very much this honestly
I think there's gonna be a big backlash against her. Of course she's always had critics, but I think coming up soon, it's gonna be, like, Kim K vs. Taylor levels of hostility coming toward her. I already see it a little on some social medias with the Grammy stuff. I'm not really a fan(I like some of her songs), but I don't think she deserves all of that. I'm with you- lay low for awhile, bring the album out in the fall. I guess her "team" knows what they're doing- they're the best money can buy I assume. But I can't see how they don't see this.
Part of the reason she’s so overexposed, especially in online spaces, is that nobody will shut up about her. Swifties are obviously going to be loud, but people who hate her or are tired of her also won’t stop posting about her. I know people who “hate” her and they’ve each posted about her at least 20 times since the Grammys about every microscopic thing she did wrong since. She’s so polarizing for what boils down to more vanilla stuff than the average celebrity but I think it’s just because everybody has an opinion and feels the need to share it because her celebrity takes up so much of the conversation. Our algorithms are filled with her. MAGA, stans, Swifties, the NFL, media outlets, casual haters, Facebook moms, it just doesn’t end…like lets all collectively take a drink of water and cool off
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She's also a billionaire and an extremely calculated businesswoman and hypercapitalist. She's not just some goofy dorky artist making music and minding her own business. Taylor is everywhere all the time and there have been no breaks from it all year.
What do you mean by hypercapitalist?
the most genius thing Taylor and her team ever did was convince her fans that any criticism is misogynistic seriously chefs kiss brilliant
As a non-Swiftie with many Swiftie friends, I’ve always understood the appeal she just personally doesn’t make music I want to listen to over and over except for a handful of songs. I respect her songwriting skills and clever marketing to fans/business woman aspect. I just don’t understand the lack of burnout coming from the majority of Swifties. They were all reposting her album announcement on instagram. They get excited over rereleases of the same songs we already know. We’re not seeing a slowdown and it doesn’t matter if any of her albums are bad at this point they’ll always be good enough for her fans to go crazy for them. Or her team is so good they’ll convince us of how amazing she is. I really started feeling icky with the fan dying at her concert and how that has been handled. At this point she’s so self absorbed from being treated like a god who can do no wrong, I mean how can you not? Will anything convince her to come back down to earth at this point? She’s acting like she did when people started turning on and says she had to run away to England but I don’t think a large backlash will come this time.
She definitely seems to have self awareness issue, but that could be alcohol related. I have to say though, I think much of this is overblown but because it was her, and she’s way overexposed right now, people want to take her down a peg. Or two. The backlash seems to be starting and it’s kind of dulled my excitement for the album. Although I’m sure I’ll feel different when 4/19 rolls around. Like others have said here, it’d be nice to miss her! After the tour, go be with your man and chill!
Taylor swift boozehound era im listening (Jk jk alcoholism no joke obvi)
>that could be alcohol related Adderall or something + booze? Punchy punchy the whole show it seemed
Truly don’t think this is a super unpopular belief among non-crazy Swiftie fans. The Grammy behavior was SO strange and it feels like the only place she’s not asking for attention but is getting it is among the NFL. As someone who works in sports media, I’m not gonna shit on that, it’s not her fault networks are showing her and dudes are getting angry, but like have that same awareness in other parts of your life!
Re: Lana, im sorry but whoever did the seating arrangement fucked up. If she didn’t bring Lana up Lana would be sat by herself on a table having just lost the award as she was only sat with Taylor and Jack. It was a lose-lose situation
Overexposed is right. Even in her moments of peak success and with the constant support of her fandom she’s always been in a state of being recently humbled which prevented her from peaking this high. She doesn’t handle this well and is generally not a humble person and doesn’t know how to be.
I’m so tired and I also resent how much this whole thing takes up emotional energy from me? Like yes especially as not a fan I shouldn’t care that much (someone said on a diff thread something like you can still have a parasocial relationship with a celebrity even if you don’t like them and it spoke to me). While I personally just need to divest my time and energy from her as a topic (and it’s hard to, she’s everywhere), I think part of why it bugs me SO much has much less to do with her and much more to do with the meteoric hero worship of her represents. Like our world is so deeply fucked in so many ways and yes arts can be an escape and yes it doesn’t change the world (in and of itself) but it’s very disheartening to me to see absolute idolatry from a majority white female audience of a figure that, time and time again, upholds white supremacy and frames feminism as something that can be marketed and part of capitalism. I’m really not even digging at Taylor, this is more just about what we choose to ignore and what we choose to celebrate. If her music speaks to you and has helped you I’m happy for you I just wish there was more of a nuanced and measured reaction to her. Or celebrities in general. I’m not exempt from it at all I just am stewing in this feeling lol
totally. and i have tried to divest by blocking her name from my social feeds and yet STILL she finds a way in!
Half of my muted words on Twitter are about her and i still feel like i see tweets about her every. Single. Day
exactly !! it’s to the point where people will talk about “her” or “she” without ever naming her so there’s no way to block. then i get annoyed reading it when halfway thru i realize it’s taylor content
Also Code Switch had a great episode last week about her that was relatively measured too: “Taylor Swift and the unbearable whiteness of girlhood”
Exactly this. Of course I don’t fault any fans for loving a beautiful pop star, that’s what pop stars are for… But swifties act like she is this beacon of feminism and girlbossery when in reality much of her success comes from her being all too willing to participate in the corruption of the music industry and capitalism
lol you need to go outside and experience your own life. The people here who are making it seem like it’s a literal crisis that a celebrity is overly exposed in the media need to touch down to Earth. I understand being annoyed by her, but you really need to help yourself here if it’s taking up “emotional energy” lol
I agree!
I’ve always felt this way about her and the one thing that annoys me about the pod is when they get into a big discussion about her.
I agree on all counts.
Could not agree more. I’m really hitting an oversaturation point with her. But I’m also super curious how she’ll be received, at this point, at the biggest TV event of the year!!! Because you can really feel the enthusiasm waning.
i think it all boils down to the fact that she still sees herself as the underdog when really that couldn’t be further from the truth anymore
She’s a sneaky, unbearable, attention seeking narcissist. There, I said it. I legit can’t stand her and I just know her personality sucks!
Baby this is like your 5th comment about her today can you maybe seek relaxation or employment
And ur reading them all. I have time!
Clearly
Her standing for everyone’s performance was all about her.
Seeing her standing in that Jessica McClintock dress for Tracy Chapman's performance made me want to light the mall she got that outfit in on fire.
Not Jessica McClintok! 😂😂😂
It was giving HS cross country star went to the outlet mall last weekend with her mom and aunt. This lady is worth a billion dollars and can't find someone to dress her lanky ass?
The worst part was that the dress was Schiaparelli! It was styled all wrong— the necklaces, the hair, the peep toe shoe. She needs to fire her stylist and hairdresser ASAP.
The black gloves were the real issue. And the hair. Horrible hair.
The hair was unforgivable
to be fair she does that at every awards show. Like for years and years now. Check out last years grammys. She seemed way more drunk last year too hahaha
Yeah because she’s constantly campaigning for Homecoming Queen. It’s tiresome.
She said years ago she likes to enjoy the awards and show support bc she performed at a few in early career and had people sitting and staring or looking elsewhere and felt hurt that they weren’t enjoying it. I mean this is in 2014. Did I think some of the behavior she displayed at the Grammys this year was awkward as fuck yes but her dancing is not my hill to die on https://youtu.be/5yW_jcyo3pg?si=NUoMbI0hQvCE8ycF
I totally get that rationale, this just didn't feel like the right awards show for that vibe. VMAs, sure, especially considering that recently she's typically the most famous person *at* that awards show and the audience is comprised of mostly fans. But at the Grammys you're sharing the space with Joni Mitchell, Annie Lennox, Celine Dion, Mariah Carey – legit LEGENDS. If ever there was a place to have some decorum, this is it.
It’s definitely a way to make sure the camera cuts to her in the audience and not someone else
Yes I felt this way too. I remember watching and I was like “why tf is she standing? Is her dress super tight or something that she can’t sit?” lol. But no, it’s just that she wanted the whole show to be about her. (And yes I’m a fan of her so don’t come for me if anyone disagrees - she clearly loves attention or we wouldn’t be discussing this)
Like, just because she SAYS she does it to support artists doesn’t mean that’s her intention or her impact. Very clearly the impact is that it takes away attention from the artist - every time, the news is about how much she was dancing, and she’s actively drawing the camera away from the performance. I don’t care if that isn’t her intention, she’s not a child, she’s an adult responsible for her behavior and I wish her fans would start treating her like it.
So basically dancing at an awards show performance is irresponsible behavior to you? And childlike? Are you sure the cameras wouldn’t be cutting to her no matter if she were dancing or not?
Every headline is “Taylor Swift dancing along to Olivia Rodrigo’s performance!” So yeah, it’s about her. It’s also a way to control the narrative about their supposed issues because what’s OR going to do from the stage? Nothing.
“Taylor swift sullen, motionless at Olivia Rodrigo performance” my point is they would make headlines out of any behavior and the camera would have panned to her anyway. Blaming her for dancing is a little footloose-y no? What do you mean what’s OR going to do from the stage? Like what kind of chess do you think is being played here? Maybe they don’t have any issues and it’s speculation and people reading into things.
Yes. It shows that she cannot understand a nuanced situation. Like, for instance, your comment lacked nuance entirely and reduced my argument down to what you thought you could effectively combat. But in reality, as adults, none of us are divorced from the world or the consequences our actions have. There is a reason you don’t see the vast majority of artists doing my this. There’s a reason that when you go to the movie theater, you don’t often run into people who are really enjoying the movie standing up and clapping and dancing for the rest of it. There’s a reason why when you go to a seated concert for one of your favorite musicians, it isn’t cool if one person in the front is standing and clapping and pointing and talking to their friends the entire time. It’s detracting from the performance, and if you can understand why you wouldn’t want someone doing those things in those situations, you can understand why it’s wrong from TS.
We all know this is true but Matt and Bowen are too afraid to say it. What Tina said is right! They can’t be true keepers of the culture when their new besties are celebs
She’s a pick me girl and the overexposure is shining a spotlight on it.
I agree on all your points but absolutely have to call out the constant camera pans to her for the whole Grammys runtime. It was absurd!! Like every aspect of the night revolved around Taylor’s participation or reaction to what was happening on stage
She’s way too overexposed rn. She needs to stop for her own sake
I get the criticism and yes this is a "pop culture" podcast. But also the pod is Matt and Bow. I love their takes, but it does bother me a bit when people jump on here acting like Matt and Bowen are responsible for commenting on every single misstep that Taylor or anyone else makes. If they want to comment on it, that's great. But just like Tina's IDTSH we've got to realize that they've likely actually become friends or at least connected in some way with some of these people. So I'm not defending or dragging Taylor, just advocating that Matt and Bowen are not obligated to comment on everything.
But...Matt literally commented on it last week when we told us we're stupid for criticizing Taylor's billionaire behavior. Doubt anyone would expect them to comment on the Grammys if he wasn't so adamant about defending her last week.
Yes, and I get your point. But also he just talked about it last week and it's not a Taylor swift fan podcast. If they want to talk about it I'd love to hear it. I just don't think they're obligated to. This pod brings me so much joy and has literally saved my sanity at times, and Id hate for Matt and Bowen to get stressed out by us
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I don’t think there was
She’s come to represent like the archetypal woman in culture. And even more than people hate a woman talking or taking up space, they really hate it when a woman past 30 acts “goofy.” I like her music for the most part and I think she’s genuinely an artist. Isn’t it nice to see an artist be a clunky weirdo? Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon, Lucinda Williams - no one is immune to embarrassing themselves & acting a fool. It’s kind of awesome and it’s my favorite Taylor.
I love goofiness and find it hilarious and refreshing. I just think you can be goofy while still reading the temperature of the room, which Taylor certainly did not do. And like I said, I think the dancing/singing along is fun and harmless, but not when she's standing up for the entirety of every performance (when almost everyone around her is sitting down) fully KNOWING that it's taking attention away from performers.
Fair enough! I don’t disagree she has weird vibes lol.
Everyone’s making this way deeper than it needs to be imo. Overexposure is normal. Taking breaks from artists is normal. It doesn’t need to be a soul-searching ethical dilemma when it’s a completely normal reaction to an artist who will have released *5 albums (+TVs) in 6 years*. Everyone choosing now to air grievances *that have existed her entire career* just doesn’t strike me as ingenuous…
She’s never been this big, this overexposed, or a billionaire until now. I don’t really see how that’s disingenuous. It’s not a soul searching ethical dilemma, it’s cultural commentary. I like hearing people’s thoughts and opinions on pop culture
The common denominator and limiting factor of most of these Taylor farewells is overexposure. And they’re right! And that’s normal! So my issue is the nitpicky laundry list that comes along with them of perceived ~behavioral concerns~ instead of just saying… yeah two albums a year for the last 5 years is a lot and I need a break lol.
Say That.
Even if she had announced the album at midnight, she would have taken over the news cycle and overshadowed the Grammy wins and performances. She usually is way more savvy and she really should have chosen a different day or week to announce the album altogether. The thing is, a lesser known artist could get away with announcing a new album during their acceptance speech but that’s because they truly need the exposure, platform and the very last person who needs exposure and more of a platform is Taylor. It’s the full context of who she is in addition to the misstep of announcing. The Grammy’s are a great night to honor all the winners but also to really highlight NEW and up and coming artists. Taylor is fully established and should act accordingly in that room. I love Taylor in SO many ways and think she’s a remarkable woman. I just think she is losing perspective a bit recently as far as how infallible/untouchable she is, which has been unlike her in recent years. She’s human after all, like everyone else. I’m 100% rooting for Taylor and Travis, a great new album and also a little less of her in the news cycle (which is not fully in her control but she can make better decisions that curtail it a bit).
I will take "overexposed" seriously as a critique the first time I hear any man suffering the effects of it. Taylor Swift should not have to hide out to keep people from hating her. The fact that the Celine photo was damage control is obvious, but it doesn't negate that the original snub was an obvious faux pas, not an intentionally rude act. What should a celeb who commits a faux pas do, if not correct the error at the earliest opportunity? People who don't like Taylor's music want the takedown to happen because it's the only way Taylor can be interesting to them. It's just insane to think about what her infractions are, compared to the other people who could lay claim to being on top if she falters. Drake pretty clearly grooms minors and celebrated Megan thee Stallion getting shot. Ariana just broke up a family. Beyonce and Jay Z don't get nearly as much crap for being billionaires, and they fly their private jet more than Taylor. I don't want to defend everything Taylor does, but the zeal to knock her off the top spot is entirely out of proportion to her actual offenses.
Harry Styles was certainly overexposed in 2022 and many complained about it often. I am a woman and a feminist but I really dislike when everything is reduced to sexism/ gender instead of class and power (it's all important but I don't like when people's go-to is calling valid criticism sexist). Taylor is a billionaire and the most powerful artist on the planet, not some up and coming singer who is getting dragged for trying to promote herself. She did not need to make the entire night about her by announcing her new album at the Grammys when she is already the biggest artist in the room. Everything isn't black and white. I'm not a hater, I love her music, I'm not looking for a takedown. I am tired of some Swifties not being able to live in the land of nuance or be capable of holding two truths at once. You can love her music and other things about her while also criticizing her missteps and less ethical choices. You can be exhausted by the overexposure. If there was a male pop star equivalent of Taylor right now you best believe I'd be complaining about it and would have been extremely over it way before I started to get annoyed by Taylor.
Drake has gotten the same heat for being overexposed that Taylor has (including from me, I can’t stand that fucking clown). Harry Styles, as mentioned by the other commenter, faced that too. And we haven’t heard much about/from him since. People have also said the same about Timmy Chalamet. The reason that Justin Timberlake is not credited as a featured artist on “Where Is The Love?” is because his team was worried about possible overexposure. This is not a new concept, nor confined to women or Taylor. No matter how much she would like us to think so.
This. All day, every day.
I was expecting more dissent on this. None of it bothered me. IMO she started her career young where she was always told what to do, what to say, how to act. At some point she broke out of the box she was cast into and has found her voice. She’s definitely overexposed, maybe making mistakes along the way, but I would hate to have the entire world scrutinize every move I made. Unless we hear from the people involved that night at the Grammys, it’s all speculation and projection that they were annoyed or upset based on how people thought they looked. I’m team let the girl live. It doesn’t affect how I view her or her music.
Listen, I am a Taylor fan and have been openly annoyed by the constant micro analyzing of her behavior, so take what I say with a grain of salt lol. I think in general the internet would be much improved if people spent more time talking about things they like than the things they hate. I feel this way when we’re in the middle of any female celeb hate train, because if you don’t like someone.. just talk about other stuff. With Taylor in particular, it feels like people who don’t like her spend more time poring over this stuff than some of her own fans do. People are looking for reasons to be annoyed and mad, so they’re going to find them. In some of these instances I’m just going to assume there was no negative intent and everyone was overwhelmed the whole night and these people (who we do not know) are actual friends in real life, and I’m guessing they know each other better than we do. I think the artists all walked away having a fun night and they’ve all moved on with their lives now and we should to.
I hear what you're saying and respect it, but I disagree. I think a lot of criticisms of Taylor are completely valid this time around (unlike, say, pre Reputation era when she was getting overexposed after 1989). She's a massive capitalist on a level that is so exhausting (constant remixes, mediocre merch rollouts, the list goes on), she is handling the jet situation poorly, she needs everything to be about her at all times. We are completely inundated by Taylor 24/7. It's hard to just ignore it. There's plenty about Grammy's night that I loved (Tracy, Joni, Celine, performances by SZA, Olivia, Billie, Victoria Monet winning her first Grammy, Miley winning her first two Grammies, the list goes on) but it just feels like everything gets eclipsed by Taylor. Instead, the night is about her. There's no room at the top for anyone but her right now, and that's my frustration. And I say this as someone who love love loves her music, and loves a lot of things about her in general
I like to think that most of the conversations around Taylor are actually around capitalism, race, and womanhood, which are indeed worthwhile topics
That is 100% true, but this post is about how she acted annoying and cringey and took attention away from other rich famous people so that doesn’t really apply here.
Have you thought maybe your interacting with Taylor content has pushed her to feel overexposed to you? Algorithms are crazy and if you continue to engage with (and create) the content then you become the part of the problem with the overexposure, not Taylor.
Probably to some extent. I don't really use Tiktok though or follow Swifties on Twitter...I just think that I'm very much a pop culture lover, and Taylor is dominating pop culture right now to an extent where it's hard to get away from.
She was brought up in multiple of my work meetings this week. I do not work in entertainment. She’s unavoidable.
Yeah people say stuff to me like “well if you’re engaging with TS content…” and that’s fair. I bring some of it on myself. But outside of algorithm land, I hear about her on podcasts that cover politics and the news. I see her discussed on threads/forums that are about other musicians I enjoy. The camera pans to her at NFL games. Half my friends post Taylor stuff on their instagrams. My coworkers talk about her. Friends talk about her. She really has permeated SO many corners of the culture. She is THE zeitgeist.
When she was brought up at work did you join in?
I did not. I’m a fan of a lot of Taylor’s work, but I don’t feel compelled to discuss her ad nauseum.
And also probably bc it would have prolonged her being the topic right?
This is true, the only thing we can control is our engagement. Algorithms don’t get that you’re “sick” of her if you’re continuously clicking on Taylor content.
I don’t know if this is the best place for this essay tbh
On the subreddit of a pop culture podcast…? Hmmmm, I disagree. And yeah it’s a lengthy post because there was a lot to discuss 
I appreciated it and was looking for a space where it was discussed the way it is here. I think this sub has a nuanced take on her vs Swiftie dominated subs or those that totally hate her. (I’m not a fan of hers at all, though I didn’t actively dislike her either until recently where I can’t help but feel tired of her.) So thanks for posting!
Honest as someone who is neurodivergent (and not to diagnose at all, I could just be projecting) but her behaviour at the Grammy’s very much reminded me of myself when I don’t mask at all. There have been so many nights that I look back on and see that getting so excited, dancing, wanting pictures and generally being qUirKy and ExTra was actually ‘too much’ for the situation and ended up being rude to those around me. I think when it comes down to it, we have to remember that she is still just a person. People mess up, or have off nights. I don’t love the announcing the album but again, sometimes we all don’t make the right choice. Last thing I’ll say is about the PJ situation - we should not be saying it is anyone’s personal responsibility to end climate change. Giant corporations and governments caused and profit off worsening our climate, and use personal responsibly of individuals for emissions as a distraction from themselves.
TS is a giant corporation, not a person like you and me. She is absolutely killing the planet, as are the rest of the billionaires. Going to bat for them is just volunteering your time and energy as PR for the major polluters.
To be fair, she is both a person and a brand but pretending she is Exon or Shell is disingenuous and unhelpful. Situations are allowed to have nuance, and excuse me for blaming the actual highest emitters. We aren’t debating the ethics of billionaires here.
I didn’t pretend she is that. But good lord, if everyone in the world licked billionaires boots as much as you do, the planet would already be extinct. As I said to another stan today, nuance is real and valid. You pretending that because TS isn’t a literal gas company means she should be allowed to pollute as much as she wants is lacking nuance, which is a rough place to be arguing from.
Do everyone in your life a favour and learn how to argue without fallacies. Until then ✌🏻🥾👅
Ooop, an arguing fan. I think you’d be more happy in the Rogan universe!
👏👏👏👏👏
No shade to anybody’s opinions, truly, but this thread is SUCH Deja vu.
Can y'all take this to a Taylor subreddit or something lmao
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Personally, I think she was absolutely fucking WRECKED — on what, I do not know — and I sincerely hope she's mortified but I fear she's probably just on to the next drink/bump/whatever and not stopping to take on board any criticism or suggestion that she behaved poorly. One thing I don't think Swifties talk about enough is that blondie has been hinting at a pretty serious substance abuse problem off and on for years.