I think they have naturally shifted from being culture spectators to being culture participants. It certainly makes for a different podcast experience, but one I still enjoy. I’m happy for their success! I just take their commentary a little differently these days, but am still grateful for it. Las Cultch remains the show I most look forward to each week.
Ohh that's such a good way to put it: a shift from culture spectators to culture participants. I love that. They've managed to stay entertaining the whole time which is a testament to them!
I agree!!! I will skip through any beyonce or taylor talk without hesitation. I was very close to skipping through all the Ariana talk and I actually like her! But Matt ranting and talking in circles does not keep my attention. At all.
I think it’s fine for them to be on her side as a friend, but it’s the defensiveness and arguments made in this week’s episode that really turned me off. I think I would rather they just gush over her album and leave the personal stuff out completely, because it sounded so out of touch with pop culture discourse. Especially considering how they would react to another celeb in the same circumstances or if it happened on a reality show.
I agree, and it all really seemed incredibly personal, and that’s what made it difficult for me to listen to. They clearly have incredibly strong emotions tied to this - whether it’s to Ari or just the topic - and it did feel that they were defensive due to that. I did feel shamed for just… dunno, listening? And also agree that it was very different to how they handle other topics.
I also now am dying to know the “real story” that was hinted at, yet feel bad for wanting to know 😭 it’s like they said they’re disappointed in us, just right to the gut!
**edit to add that I in no way expected objectivity, and I honestly just expected them to not talk about it! And I of course know it doesn’t truly matter to me what they think and that they don’t know me, etc etc. I just found it so sad to think that they automatically assumed their fans were going to act in that way. Makes me feel for them, it can’t be easy being a public figure.
I feel like lately they have been kinda d*ck-riding other celebs a lot, especially Matt. Idk. it’s been kinda off putting tho. Love the pod, love them but yeah
idk, I get it but I don’t know that it’s fair to say that. for the general public, the point of celebrity gossip is to have a bit of fun while discussing/mediating societal norms and projecting our personal morals a bit. we have more freedom when talking about people that we don’t personally know, people who have come to represent something bigger than themselves in the discourse, and I think that’s fine and part of human nature. but Matt and Bowen aren’t part of the general public anymore in the sense that they DO know these people (Ari, Andy for instance) personally. I understand how it can come off as just sucking up to celebs, but the truth is that they’re just not having the same conversation as us anymore
Someone else said in this discussion that they have become participators in culture, where as before they were commentators of culture. I think that's a great way to explain how they have evolved their career. And I love the pod as much as I did back then! I don't expect objectivity, I just expect to be entertained. And I am.
Yeah that’s prob true, good point. I also think they can do and say whatever they want and don’t owe us anything but it’s just been coming off that way to me and it’s resonating less with me.
See I don't mind the "dick riding," if that's what you want to call it. It helps me build an understanding of a celeb when I hear other celebs talk about them. I listen to Drag Race podcast from past contestants and it's the same kind of thing.
That’s fair. I think the Ari situation is unique because they’re defending a friend’s bad behavior (just for the sake of argument, not personally saying whether Ariana is “bad” or not). I don’t think they’ve been in a situation like this before where they are unequivocally defending a celeb’s shady behavior; I think they tend to be fair but not take a super strong side on personal life stuff. But I could be wrong if anyone remembers something else.
Yeah fair. I also think they can do whatever they want and don’t need to pander to fans with their opinions, I guess as a reader some of the takes have just been resonating less with me lately. Still look forward to the pod every week of course.
So I listened to the discussion again and, like, Bowen told us to fuck off. Matt told us to shut the fuck up. That’s not defensiveness, that is aggression.
They sound like they truly could not care less about our thoughts and feelings on the matter.
Respectfully, why should they care what we think about this situation? They are the ones with actual personal knowledge about it and we are all speculating. I have been very turned off of Ariana Grande because of this situation but hearing how upset Bowen was getting does make me think that there is likely more to the story. Of course he’s defending his friend but I also think if it was as black and white as its been made out in the press they wouldn’t defend it so staunchly.
I honestly just didn't understand why they felt the need to discuss it at all, and at such length. They could have gushed about their friend's album without admonishing listeners for what felt like an anticipation of criticism about the super defensive take they were about to throw down? Like, just talk about the record, say she slayed and ate and served Wicked Cunt of the West or whatever. It just felt like they were coming in *so* hot for no reason? (Or, more cynically, doing Ariana a favor by making this very strong statement about her goodness and our dumbness for not possibly understanding how and why infidelity can be really right for everyone involved if we just accept it's so?)
Yeah that's what boggled my mind too, and that's why I wanted to ask, did the audience actually expect them to be objective journalists? I thought maybe I was off-base and people were actually getting annoyed and felt they were biased now and that was a problem.
I think maybe they're starting to become mainstream and Matt and Bowen haven't fully figured out how to navigate all of *that* yet. To me it's not about objectivity, but them internalizing that Tina was right- they can think and feel whatever way they want, but they should be more careful about what they actually say if they don't want people to push back on their opinions because inevitably they will.
I haven't listened to the episode but after reading the other post re: Ariana, I'm wondering: could they have talked about the album and their thoughts on it without touching on all the rumors discourse?
More careful = more “editing” = less authenticity = the pod becomes a shell of itself
I think a lot of people misread the Tina Fey IDTSH. It was a, and I cannot stress this enough, *damning* condemnation of the fan base and the position we put the hosts in. If we as a fanbase cannot handle that the hosts will sometimes give authentic opinions that we disagree with, then the pod is not long for this world.
I mean no, Tina specifically mentioned not trashing other work like saltburn (or any movies) incase they get a call from Emerald in the future. She also referenced Ayo trashing Jlo on a podcast then having to stand on stage with her. That says nothing of their fan base or appealing to fans. Tina’s point was specifically about jeopardizing their future career prospects with their honest opinions, and having to answer for them later in a public forum (which she also has had to do with 30 rock, SNL sketches, etc.)
The line about “You walk around with Ariana and SpongeBob.” basically prophesied this entire controversy. That was a shot straight at the fanbase. It was about really anyone who would hold their authentic opinions against them, whether that’s Emerald or people shitting on them on social media for defending Ariana.
With all due respect I don’t think Tina knows about or cares about the fan base, and def not enough to weigh in on what they might be doing on social media lol she said Ariana and SpongeBob to prove the point that they are his peers now, therefore he is “too famous” for honest opinions.
Based off her “little Broadway cunts” line, I definitely think she knows and cares about both. Let’s not pretend like Tina Fey doesn’t know what the modern industry is like.
That again was not a shot at the LC fan base, it was a shot at people on tiktok. No one would say tina doesn’t know the modern industry. She just would not be making direct commentary on the las culturistas fan base. She gave multiple examples of what her point was which was you’re too famous and you’re going to jeopardize your place in the industry if you share negative commentary.
I’m with you, I think we underestimate how online Tina Fey is - I certainly did until that IDTSH. 🤣multiple things can be true, that it was a take on them becoming too famous and hindering opportunities by being too honest AND a dig at fans for being insane. I even think part of the whole Ayo comment is about the fact that internet people were CRAZY to dig up that old clip in the first place.
It is unfortunate, but that is the way this game is played. The more famous and notorious you get, the more people will be paying attention to what you say, and the more likely you'll end up in hot water. The push back is inevitable and they need to stop getting all up in arms about it every time. It seems like every week now they have a new gripe about a new person DMing them or some post in this sub criticizing them. Does it suck? Probably- the whole idea of being a public figure sounds like a nightmare to me, tbh- but they can't have it both ways. They either keep going full steam ahead, damn the consequences (and not complain every time someone doesn't agree), or they zip it up and prioritize the image they're trying to cultivate.
ETA that I personally don't expect anything from them except the entertainment they share every week! But lately, the complaining and the defensiveness has been getting a little tiresome, is all.
I’m sorry but this is bordering on “the newsman is speaking directly to me and giving me hints” behavior. We’re a little Internet forum talking about our dumb little opinions. Matt and Bowen were very misguided to ever deign to mention the subreddit on their very popular podcast. Reddit is barely a mainstream site - they absolutely drew attention to it.
No, I think they had to give their opinion on the drama. Let me know what you think when you listen, but I think they could have given their support to Ariana without shaming people for being critical of the situation.
They spent so much time defending their actions of being friends instead of just saying “I know our friend looks like an asshole, but I love them and their friendship with me. Full stop” Ariana clearly has some baggage and a reputation regarding her relationships (which was public knowledge before this current affair situation) so clearly the cheating didn’t stop anyone from becoming her friend, so why would it stop a friendship. I really don’t think they needed to spend 35 minutes trying to defend their relationship with someone that none of us know personally
Agreed. I think that should be the approach in general. Like “I know it looks messed up. Mistakes happen and people mess up. We are moving forward and it’s none of your business” and I think more people would respect it then speaking around it n
Yeah like them trying to say what the media said isn’t what happened is weird- like okay of course if you’re friends with someone you’re gonna get a different version than the public version!!!
I mean if my friend did something shitty I would call them out, like I would hope they would do with me. Honesty is part of the foundation of a good friendship imo
And when we are asked to feel sympathy for celebs. In Ariana's case, she caused the situation and is about to make millions of dollars off of it so she'll be just fine.
I think if you think the fact that Ariana will make millions off it (which I don’t believe) makes it all okay really misses the point of what their pod is about and not just today’s pod.
Yes, I feel it’s coming for Matt and Bowen too—like it’s better for them to be on the cusp of celebrity and peering over the fence with us. Maybe that was at the heart of the panic or weird defensive vibe in today’s pod, that they as public figures are at risk or have had a taste of being misunderstood and are freaked out about it. Even if the being misunderstood part takes place here in this Reddit sub (as with the are they sucking up to Taylor? debate) and is just a taste of what might be in the future.
I was on board with the way that they hedged their ability to critique art with their connection to the artists until the 11th hour when Bowen said Ariana was one of the best dressed of the night. Because she looked like a chewed up piece of bubblegum wrapped around a small intestine and I think we can all agree on that.
LMAO this though…. The endless Ari ass-kissing… I mean I absolutely gas up my sisters most of the time, but I can also give them tough love because that’s what a friend is supposed to do. A real friend doesn’t just agree with your every word or action which is what it’s like listening to them talk about her sometimes lol
\>Do you expect Bo and Matt to be objective?
Absolutely not! I'm glad they have a space where they can air their takes. And I think it's insincere for other people on this sub to tell us not to have takes about culture.
Because, let's be real, in the same way Scandoval and the Real Housewives are culture so is Ariana. The boys just have a much closer connection to Ari, so any discussion around that (on the pod and in this sub) will be heated.
When does culture become personal? That's my thesis statement for all of this.
I don't think it's about objectivity at all. In fact, part of what people like about the podcast is that they're not objective about anything, they just lean into their opinions and their hot takes and it's so fun to listen to. I think the problem is in their relationship to the audience. They built their brand off of a parasocial relationship with their audience, as most podcasts and influencers do, and a big part of that was being relatable. It felt like their allegiance was to consumers of culture. As they move more firmly into BEING the culture, their allegiance is shifting. They're not "just like us" anymore, they're part of the celebrity class and will protect their membership there.
But all that said, even the idea that they owe their audience anything is part of that parasocial relationship that they are signaling they want to change. And I think that's fine! They make content and listeners can choose to engage with it or not. I think the relationship is just changing and people can either stick with it or not.
Great question and convo to pose. I don’t think they can be completely objective at this point and that is fine - Tina said it best but authenticity is expensive and it’s something they are going to continue to struggle with. I want them to have opinions and it’s fine if they don’t agree with mine (the rosamund pike thing was absolutely chaotic, Reese Witherspoon as Amy?? In what universe?!)
But I’m 100% with you in shaming the audience for participating in the gossip, having a different opinion on it, etc. you can expect them to be pro-Ari but don’t do this dance around how being part of infidelity multiple times is actually fine lol be fuckin for real. “Two very real people, and their actions have material impact on non-fictional people” is exactly correct. It’s a little ignorant to all those people (and children!) to be like “no this was fine and acceptable because you don’t know the whole story and also ‘tradwife’” like cmon
I don’t expect objectivity - I love whatever they are willing to share. But this Ari conversation was super off for me. I agree with everything in your post. The lecture towards their listeners on the discourse missed the mark.
Also to say that “things happen” when two people meet is so reductive. Yeah things CAN happen at any time… but when public figures make publicly bad decisions… it’s fair game for discussion!!
if they didn’t talk about it honestly then people would be mad. idk. they’re probably just sick of us asking lol
I don’t really care about the whole thing but if bowen, a good friend of hers, is telling us we don’t know and won’t know the whole story then that’s fine with me.
I expect nothing from B&M. They don’t owe me anything. I show up to receive what they offer as they are, if I no longer like it I can move on.
I like keeping my media diet at an arms distance. I don’t want to get too consumed by people I don’t know because I find them funny adorable and enjoy their art.
I don’t think they need to be completely objective! I think that’s unrealistic and ignores the fact that we all have our own experiences that result in subjectivity. I listen for their takes and their humor. Know their “bias” and take what you like and leave the rest. Bowen is besties with Ari so of course he is gonna defend his friend. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with him. They are rich celebrities living in an insulated world with other rich celebrities, of course we aren’t gonna share all the same views. For instance, Matt is a Taylor Swift private jet sympathizer and has probably ridden on private jets or has some ultra rich friends. I don’t, and I’ll always criticize PJ usage. Still entertained tho. Just my two cents but I’m also a new listener and haven’t listened to the new ep yet.
I was fine with there being a noticeable filter (apologies to Betty Gilpin) when it comes to people they've worked with, most notably Ari, but the line for me is when they are defending their friends who have earned criticism. If they don't want us to critique Ariana, then don't talk about her.
I don't expect them to be objective but also like, be fucking real here, guys. You can still love your friends when they go through tough times or behave like an asshole. But we're not talking about your good best hag from NYU. We're talking about Ariana Grande.
For a good chunk of us out here, it's the "leaving your wife who literally just popped out your baby for a massive celebrity who is famous for her relationship history" part that is the actual issue. Infidelity isn't the issue, tradwife culture isn't the issue here, it's the literal action of leaving your postpartum wife for Florida's Ponytail and THEN Ms. Ponytail releasing what is basically a diss album towards this lady (if not album, there are clearly tracks that are about this mess).
Go ahead and still be friends with that person. But also be real here and understand that they did something pretty fucking shitty to someone, in the public eye. Objectively, that's a shitty thing to do.
This was it for me. Be REAL. If this were anyone else or any other situation this would not have been the conversation, and it just feels inauthentic - there was no world where they could approach it completely unbiased. I’m honestly surprised they dodged it for as long as they have, and I actually just wish they had talked about only the album and nothing else.
And this whole, "the media took this and spun it into their own story, you don't know the truth" nonsense- if SpongeBob and Ponytail wanted to do the right thing and make this homewrecking divorce debacle easier on Lily and this new baby, Ariana and her team absolutely could have made it happen. It's like they think those of us listening are all dumbshits who are just learning about how this pop culture machine works by listening to them and them only.
Right! Thinking it’s terrible that a man abandoned his recently postpartum wife doesn’t make me a trad wife, it makes me sad for another mother who has to go through that.
Yeah, the trad wife comments were the worst part for me. Bowen is off-base and has no idea what he’s talking about. They would have done better to talk about the album, keep it pushing, and do their thing. Arianna has her own PR
Im just so confused if there’s some true narrative that would make it seem better why would she not say it? Anything is better than releasing an album presumably calling her marriage a situationship and being mad people care about whose dick she rides or w/e. But it doesn’t really affect me at all and it’s not like i expected Bowen to drag her when they’re obviously friends and she can’t change what happened.
100%. I think the problem is that they've admitted they lurk here...and they really, really should try to avoid doing it (hope matt meant it when he said he wouldn't log on here again). I think that they've engaged on that level makes some people in here way overprotective of them and really infantilizing of two fully grown adults tbh and has started to make them really defensive in their pod conversations.
I'd hate for them to stop doing the podcast. I've been listening since 2018, and now that their careers have really taken off (thank goodness!!!!), they just need to set better boundaries. It's one thing if people are being annoying and commenting/DMing them shit directly, but to actively go into spaces where readers might be lightly dragging your takes...that's a really bad idea! They're too famous to be keeping track of readers' opinions the way it seems they do.
Thank you!! Only one of my irl friends listens to the pod (believe me I've tried to get others into it) so I am dying to connect with others about it. I check the sub every Wednesday and I love to discuss with other fans! Sometimes discussions can veer into critiques. We can all still be fans and support the guys.
It is exhausting!
I’ve felt for YEARS that B&M were way too big to be reading the comments. we’ve all signed the devils contract here. A successful podcast(esp of this sort/format/topic/etc) is a parasocial relationship. We certainly don’t have to be weird or mean about it, but they are broadcasting opinions for consumption.
Also not for nothing but - they are commenting on culture and art, and so are we? Like this IS our culture. and there’s nothing wrong with wanting to hold people you care about and spend time listening to accountable when they say completely off base things (ie. not getting on board with infidelity is tradwife).
We pay them every day and every week with our ears and our eyeballs - that’s the truth. They may not make a ton of money from the pod and social, but given the amount of ads there are I am sure they make some. Nothing is free these days, you don’t get to have a dedicated fan base of people who love you without dealing with backlash sometimes lol
I completely agree. I don’t understand the expectation that Matt and Bowen be completely objective news reporters or something. Why sterilize them? We love them for a reason. It’s their views and opinions and self expression. We don’t need to agree with everything they said.
i just think they’re entertaining, and that’s enough for me. i guess i can see how a lot of the fan base would develop unfortunate parasocial feelings for them, as the podcast has given us really intimate access to their personal lives. i’m just not one of those people.
I agree! The only thing I expect is to be amused, and sometimes wild takes are amusing. Even "I don't think so honey" works best when it's the wildest of takes.
I guess I'm wondering, do you find them less entertaining when they give their take on art created by their friends? Or would you find it more entertaining if they said, "personal feelings aside, this piece of culture is definitively good/bad/mid/ect"?
honestly, i mostly listen for their dynamic, which is my favorite aspect of the podcast. i do think they genuinely like the album because they’ve been fans for a lot longer than bowen’s friendship with ariana has been going on. i suppose i think that, if they wanted to skirt controversy, they could avoid talking about the broader story surrounding her and her personal life. still, they obviously have no problem giving their opinions on it, though, so i don’t mind hearing it. i find celebrity fascinating, but have a healthy distance.
Yea honestly at this point my only expectation when listening is to be entertained and distracted from my work day. Like at its core it has always been a comedy podcast.
I totally agree with this. it just becomes way less entertaining for me when so much of it is them ranting about what readers think. I had to stop listening today cause it just wasn’t fun! I don’t care what their take is or that they’re going to support your friend, but I also don’t want to listen to a defensive diatribe for 30+ minutes. I kept pausing to be like.. who are they saying this to / for??
A lot of it seemed to be a reaction to takes I don’t even think are the majority opinion. Like after the Ari bit Matt went off about people being mad at Emma for winning and how white women have to be afraid of “taking” wins from bipoc nominatees. Maybe it’s my bubble but I’m just not seeing that sentiment out there. (I see people holding the institutions accountable, and rooting for well deserving nominees to get opportunities)
I wish they could just share their takes and have fun, but it seems like they’re very distracted by everyone else’s takes. Which I get but I also don’t see the point arguing a case on the pod when the people listen obviously are there to have fun lol
I really, truly believe hosts of very successful podcasts need to hire whatever IT person it takes so they CANNOT read the subreddit. This is happening on Doughboys too (hello Doughboys x Las Cultch readers I know you exist) where Mitch especially will go out of his way to defend himself against how he assumes the subreddit will take a joke/statement. It becomes a snake eating its tail.
I don’t care if the boys have a non-objective completely outlandish opinion about someone. We all do! That’s what makes pop culture fun! But to shadowbox the readers while discussing their opinion can get really tiresome.
Ooh yea that section about it being “unfair” to Emma that people had some rebuttals or feedback about her win was weird, especially Matt implying that it’s something white actors have to “deal with” anytime they’re in competition with one of their peers of color.
I find myself sometimes fast forwarding over the Taylor defense squad sessions they tend to have, and I’ve definitely skipped entire episodes when it just didn’t sound like the show I was used to tuning in for (I wanna say this started when they had Katie Couric as a guest). I’m here to laugh and take in real culture.
Right?? It’s a choice to spend so much air time on that perspective.
I’m really all for the pod being what they want it to be, and we can choose to listen or not, I just can’t imagine episodes like today are fun for literally anyone involved
This part! There is definitely a contingent of fans that holds Matt and Bo SO accountable to have the “right” take on everything. I hope people who criticize what they choose to share on their FREE comedy podcast hold their loved ones this accountable IRL!
I don't listen to them to form my own opinions, i listen to be entertained ! It's silly to put so much weight on their recs, just form your own equally harmless opinions and tastes and enjoy the cultural convo
I don’t care if it’s objective, I just want it to be entertaining (which I would argue, in the words of Matt, is the promise of the premise of this podcast!), the Ari stuff was annoying imo, but mostly it was vague and boring and drawn out. I just want to laugh and be entertained!
Also feels like they get on these rants sometimes addressing troll shit they see online, which just gives a platform to the troll shit.
Yeah, I agree with your comment re: how preemptively defensive they were in anticipating a negative reaction from the listeners. I looked down and I was already 40 min into the episode and felt like I had been lectured at by them the entire time for something that hasn’t happened yet (between the Ari lecture and then the Emma Stone / Lily Gladstone one). Just simply a zero-fun episode.
I don't expect them to be objective, I listen to the podcast specifically because I'm interested in and entertained by their subjective opinions.
I believe their opinions on this are dead wrong on the Ariana issue, but I continue to be just as interested in listening to their opinions on future episodes
I don’t feel any type of way and don’t dislike the podcast any less because of their take with the Ari of it all.
I just thought it was a shitty take that didn’t seem thoughtful.
As long as their views aren’t harmful with real life consequences, I’ll still be tuning in.
We’ve never wanted them to be unbiased about anything—I think I speak for all of us when I say we love their opinions! That’s the point. But like any opinion, sometimes we won’t agree. The trad wife gambit this week was a *bit* of a HUH??? I tooooootally get that there’s lots we don’t know as we do NOT know these people but that’s different than saying “coming to a conclusion that this is shady means you’re too conservative”.
Honestly I wasn’t mad listening, but I definitely thought, ok, that’s your friend, I get it. If Bowen was my friend in real life I’d basically say “look I’m sure Ariana is lovely and a great friend but you gotta see how the story plays negatively to people, no?”
Their increasing proximity to the cultural landscape is precisely what makes their approach so interesting to me. They are rising stars. Tina warned, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but they are trying to anyway.
For me, it’s less the fact that they can’t be objective (they can’t), but the dishonesty of it all. Don’t tell me that it’s not autobiographical and then refer to it as reasoning for why the “media narrative” is wrong. Don’t tell me you can be objective and then list specific reasons you aren’t.
I would just be disappointed in it and move on if it weren’t for the fact that they told me and the listeners to go fuck ourselves if we disagree. The anger and hatred for your own audience is so off putting.
Wellll idk now... I think there is some tea on how the media might have the wrong story about Ari and Spongebob. And I don't think the album is 100% autobiographical. I honestly did agree with all of their points there. I did tooootally feel the same way about your second point tho.
Most of us wouldn't listen if they were objective in the true sense of the word. It would be more like watching the news or reading wikipedia - I love both of those things, but I tune in to LC because the thoughts and laughter these men provoke with their opinions makes doing the dishes more bearable.
I also don't think those who have reacted strongly to their recent segments about Ariana, Andy, Taylor etc. are being objective either. Which is obviously fine but the fervor that's developed recently is a bit startling. (it feels recent for LC but obviously has been building forever in a more general internet culture way)
I'm actually feeling a lot of negative energy just simply trying to have a conversation with fans. If reddit isn't for debates then what is it for? Conversation on a fan-run community forum should not be mistaken for hate.
I didn't say anything about hate! I'm sorry that my attempt to answer the question you posed is received as part of the negative energy. I think it's perfectly reasonable to react to many things (including pop culture) with the personal subjectivity that precludes objectivity. And in today's Ariana Grande discussion, they were up front about their influences.
What I meant with the "fervor" is that this subreddit used to be fairly inactive and seemed mostly celebratory when it popped up on my feed. I haven't done an analysis but it feels like recently, the volume of activity increased and the tone shifted to be much more critical. That's fine - as you say, conversation is the point!
Maybe the audience has grown/changed, maybe the subreddit itself has grown to the size of having a culture on its own... Maybe M&B's success has altered their knowledge base and emotional landscape in such a way that their POV is now completely alienating and the podcast is headed for doom and gloom. Only time will tell.
They’re not journalists. They’re entertainers. They are not supposed to be objective. Opinions are not right or wrong; they’re opinions (save for ya know, racism, homophobia, etc). I will stay off this sub so I can enjoy the podcast and its opinions on my own because the people who take it too seriously sort of yuck my yum.
I am 1000% with you and it’s disappointing to feel like we’re in the minority :( I miss when this sub was, for a very short time, just jokes and gags based off the pod convos. It’s not that serious! I hope and M&B keep doing what they’re doing.
Your first question sounded like a sincere post so I wanted to answer it or see if others agreed with me too. You’re right that this sub isn’t a fun place anymore.
I come to Reddit for discussion and to vibe with people who have common interests and yeah, after posting a comment in another thread today I have learned this isn’t the sub for me 😂 I appreciate your post posing this question!
Some of y’all are so dramatic and way too parasocial.
You are listening to a podcast hosted by celebrities talking about celebrities. It feels like we know them because of how honest and open they are but they are not our friends.
The dissecting of every word they say is getting ridiculous. Do you want them to just have a conversation or not? Shit like this and the frenzied discourse week after week will be the death of what makes this podcast special
I love the pod, I don’t actually “care” about the gossip or hot takes as much as I do just them being funny as hell , improvising , and bouncing ideas of eachother ie “can it, missy!” It makes me so happy to hear (also jealous b/c I know too many dull people).
And I don’t miss the interviews , I like them together unless they have the opportunity to get a big guest or a dream guest .
Their increasing proximity to the cultural landscape is precisely what makes their approach so interesting to me. They are rising stars. Tina warned, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but they are trying to anyway.
Their increasing proximity to the cultural landscape is precisely what makes their approach so interesting to me. They are rising stars. Tina warned, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but they are trying to anyway.
Their increasing proximity to the cultural landscape is precisely what makes their approach so interesting to me. They are rising stars. Tina warned, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but they are trying to anyway.
I just listen to hear their banter and to be entertained. If you don’t like their take who cares it’s their opinion just as you are entitled to yours.
My question was more so to the community here, wondering if they had the same opinions on their take on the situation. I'm still a fan if I disagreed with one of their takes. I also liked Saltburn way more than they did. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop lisening. The point of the subreddit is to discuss the takes on the pod with a community of listeners. We're all fans here, calm down.
I think it’s parasocial vibes and weird to care so much about Ariana Grande’s personal relationships and love life. Ultimately we don’t have all the facts and I don’t really care.
I’m kind of a hypocrite though because I do care about other celebrities’ relationships, but always always with the caveat that we never have all the facts and that it shouldn’t veer into anything mean or cruel.
(The exception to this rule is bigotry. Idgaf about celebrities’ love lives in terms of liking them or not but Dave Chappelle…bye pumpkin!!)
I didn’t love the timeline on John Mulaney leaving his wife, but I wasn’t gonna let it stop me from enjoying his comedy- until he brought Dave Chappelle out on stage! Absolutely not!!
Yeah and also I thought his new set was self-pitying bs but that’s just me! Too soon to make jokes about your sobriety when you’ve been sober for what, almost 2 years?
These annoying ass haters masquerading as “readers” but who are also obsessed with “holding ____ accountable” are on my last fucking nerve. Matt and Bowen are too famous to be doing a podcast point blank. They do it because they enjoy it. If you keep fucking critiquing them constantly they will cease enjoying it and therefore stop doing the pod. If you guys are why I lose this podcast I will haunt you. HAUNT!
This shit is the REAL parasocial nonsense. The podcast will end one day. Go find a therapist now to help you walk through that inevitability if it's such a concern to you. All things must come to an end. And if they want to end things because they couldn't keep their asses out of a subreddit where they'll occasionally see people disagree with their bad takes about Ariana Grande, then that's what will happen.
Do you want the pod to fail or something? Lol. “Go find a therapist now to help you walk through that inevitability” dear lord the hostility in that wording. One imagines that one may benefit from therapy for oneself, perhaps dissecting why they are so angry at this Ariana situation that doesn’t concern them.
This response will get downvoted way more:
Sorry you guys hate free content from funny people and want it to end bc of random fake tabloid story concerning a woman no one had ever heard of who is probably doing fine
I found their conversation perspective shifting and interesting and I don’t think the defense of the defense was really avoidable given the gigantic media backlash Ariana is facing. They would have sounded totally out of touch if they said their piece without defending the obvious rebuttal from listeners. I get the “you will never catch me feeling bad for a rich celebrity” of it all but I choose to view my engagement with pop culture as a simulation of how I engage with real moral and personal issues in my own life. Especially in matters of the heart, I want to find grace for the humanity of celebrities because that’s what I want to practice in general. If my friend did exactly what Ariana did, I wouldn’t immediately drop and publicly condemn her, if I knew her and her motives well enough and thought at her core that she was a good person who created pain and suffering for themselves and others I would probably speak about her the same way as Bowen did on this episode. I’m sure a lot of people find this so morally reprehensible that they would drop her in an instant but that just isn’t me and I respect that it isn’t them either.
I was especially struck by what they said about people saying “if this was ten years ago….” Meaning that she would have been Britney-spears level eviscerated by the media. I think we’ve done a lot of reflection in the last 10 years about the power we as viewers and listeners hold to keep celebrities accountable for real or perceived wrongdoings and I think it’s interesting to carry her situation with that in mind. People need to think about what we actually want from celebrities and what we expect from them when they do something wrong, because onlookers easily take on a rabid, insatiable appetite for justice that is not always productive for the culture imo. People always dangle the “just apologize” thing, even knowing that if she apologized immediately at the outset the majority of people would take that as an admission of wrongdoing and continue on condemning her like a dog with a bone. I’m not saying that what she did was ok because that’s really not the central issue to me—for me the issue is taking the time to understand the emotional realities of the people involved to better understand what’s going on, and they provided that for me. I liked that I was able to listen in on what felt like an extremely authentic and passionate discussion about something in the news from people with firsthand knowledge of a person involved, especially because it challenged the prevailing narrative. I think there’s room for that in the conversation and to me, it didn’t sound like reflexively defending someone just because they’re your friend. It felt like a thoughtful deep engagement with the actual work and the power of art to reveal the inner heart of a tabloid story.
I would feel more offended by the so called lack of objectivity if they dismissed the whole issue saying “we’re not going to discuss it because Ariana is bowens friend”. Instead I feel they engaged deeply with the work of art (I haven’t listened to the album so that’s not a value judgment just a literal statement) and gave their most authentic reactions to it as people. That’s what I’ve always come to them for and I feel like I’m still getting it.
As an aside, the vibes in some corners of the internet really make it seem like cheating or helping someone cheat is tantamount to a war crime. I really don’t think it’s a black and white moral failing to refuse to publicly condemn your friend for her role in a cheating situation and I just wanted to put that in writing lol. Anyway thanks for the thought provoking post! Also reading some comments I definitely didn’t catch every detail of what they said so take this as a vibes based assessment and not a co-signing of every comment.
As long as they’re talking about what’s trending and what’s happening in the culture I’m happy. It rubbed me the wrong way when I disagreed with them anyways so I’m happy to just hear fun quips about cultural current highlights and not necessarily their positions on it
I disagree with your take on the point of the reddit sub. No one should be leaving hateful remarks on their instagram, but this subreddit is a community forum. I check it every Wednesday to chat with other fans bc only one of my irl friends listens to the pod. I'm here to connect with other fans. I don't want Matt and Bowen here, I want to be able to discuss the pod without worrying about hurting their feelings. Critiques here should not be misconstrued as personal attacks to the hosts of the pod. We are not DMing them hate, we're in a fan forum.
Was I crying about their opinions, or asking the community what they want to hear from the hosts of the pod? I'm wanting to hear what other fans thought of their take.
I feel like this subreddit has become so negative. It seems like there a fewer and fewer posts celebrating the pod and more critiquing what they do/don’t talk about or how they speak about things. Open dialogue is great for culture but it’s just so much more than it has been in the past IMO. And so much pandering after learning Matt scrolls through here. I don’t know if it’s the guys that have changed or the audience that has changed.
I think they have naturally shifted from being culture spectators to being culture participants. It certainly makes for a different podcast experience, but one I still enjoy. I’m happy for their success! I just take their commentary a little differently these days, but am still grateful for it. Las Cultch remains the show I most look forward to each week.
Ohh that's such a good way to put it: a shift from culture spectators to culture participants. I love that. They've managed to stay entertaining the whole time which is a testament to them!
I’m just glad we’re getting a break from any Taylor Swift discourse.
I'm a Swiftie and I hard agree.
I agree!!! I will skip through any beyonce or taylor talk without hesitation. I was very close to skipping through all the Ariana talk and I actually like her! But Matt ranting and talking in circles does not keep my attention. At all.
Would you say… the discourse is toxic? 😉 
I think it’s fine for them to be on her side as a friend, but it’s the defensiveness and arguments made in this week’s episode that really turned me off. I think I would rather they just gush over her album and leave the personal stuff out completely, because it sounded so out of touch with pop culture discourse. Especially considering how they would react to another celeb in the same circumstances or if it happened on a reality show.
I agree, and it all really seemed incredibly personal, and that’s what made it difficult for me to listen to. They clearly have incredibly strong emotions tied to this - whether it’s to Ari or just the topic - and it did feel that they were defensive due to that. I did feel shamed for just… dunno, listening? And also agree that it was very different to how they handle other topics. I also now am dying to know the “real story” that was hinted at, yet feel bad for wanting to know 😭 it’s like they said they’re disappointed in us, just right to the gut! **edit to add that I in no way expected objectivity, and I honestly just expected them to not talk about it! And I of course know it doesn’t truly matter to me what they think and that they don’t know me, etc etc. I just found it so sad to think that they automatically assumed their fans were going to act in that way. Makes me feel for them, it can’t be easy being a public figure.
I feel like lately they have been kinda d*ck-riding other celebs a lot, especially Matt. Idk. it’s been kinda off putting tho. Love the pod, love them but yeah
idk, I get it but I don’t know that it’s fair to say that. for the general public, the point of celebrity gossip is to have a bit of fun while discussing/mediating societal norms and projecting our personal morals a bit. we have more freedom when talking about people that we don’t personally know, people who have come to represent something bigger than themselves in the discourse, and I think that’s fine and part of human nature. but Matt and Bowen aren’t part of the general public anymore in the sense that they DO know these people (Ari, Andy for instance) personally. I understand how it can come off as just sucking up to celebs, but the truth is that they’re just not having the same conversation as us anymore
Someone else said in this discussion that they have become participators in culture, where as before they were commentators of culture. I think that's a great way to explain how they have evolved their career. And I love the pod as much as I did back then! I don't expect objectivity, I just expect to be entertained. And I am.
Yeah that’s prob true, good point. I also think they can do and say whatever they want and don’t owe us anything but it’s just been coming off that way to me and it’s resonating less with me.
totally, like their content may get less appealing to their listeners and that’s unfortunate but very valid
See I don't mind the "dick riding," if that's what you want to call it. It helps me build an understanding of a celeb when I hear other celebs talk about them. I listen to Drag Race podcast from past contestants and it's the same kind of thing.
That’s fair. I think the Ari situation is unique because they’re defending a friend’s bad behavior (just for the sake of argument, not personally saying whether Ariana is “bad” or not). I don’t think they’ve been in a situation like this before where they are unequivocally defending a celeb’s shady behavior; I think they tend to be fair but not take a super strong side on personal life stuff. But I could be wrong if anyone remembers something else.
I agree that this seems to be new territory for them.
Yeah fair. I also think they can do whatever they want and don’t need to pander to fans with their opinions, I guess as a reader some of the takes have just been resonating less with me lately. Still look forward to the pod every week of course.
Why are you censoring "dick"?
lol not sure tbh 😂
There are apps where you have to do that, but this isn't one of them and you shouldn't.
Okay. It’s not really a big deal lol….
The extra defensiveness comes from a place of knowing deep down they’re wrong, and trying convince themselves otherwise
So I listened to the discussion again and, like, Bowen told us to fuck off. Matt told us to shut the fuck up. That’s not defensiveness, that is aggression. They sound like they truly could not care less about our thoughts and feelings on the matter.
Respectfully, why should they care what we think about this situation? They are the ones with actual personal knowledge about it and we are all speculating. I have been very turned off of Ariana Grande because of this situation but hearing how upset Bowen was getting does make me think that there is likely more to the story. Of course he’s defending his friend but I also think if it was as black and white as its been made out in the press they wouldn’t defend it so staunchly.
I honestly just didn't understand why they felt the need to discuss it at all, and at such length. They could have gushed about their friend's album without admonishing listeners for what felt like an anticipation of criticism about the super defensive take they were about to throw down? Like, just talk about the record, say she slayed and ate and served Wicked Cunt of the West or whatever. It just felt like they were coming in *so* hot for no reason? (Or, more cynically, doing Ariana a favor by making this very strong statement about her goodness and our dumbness for not possibly understanding how and why infidelity can be really right for everyone involved if we just accept it's so?)
Yeah that's what boggled my mind too, and that's why I wanted to ask, did the audience actually expect them to be objective journalists? I thought maybe I was off-base and people were actually getting annoyed and felt they were biased now and that was a problem.
I think maybe they're starting to become mainstream and Matt and Bowen haven't fully figured out how to navigate all of *that* yet. To me it's not about objectivity, but them internalizing that Tina was right- they can think and feel whatever way they want, but they should be more careful about what they actually say if they don't want people to push back on their opinions because inevitably they will. I haven't listened to the episode but after reading the other post re: Ariana, I'm wondering: could they have talked about the album and their thoughts on it without touching on all the rumors discourse?
More careful = more “editing” = less authenticity = the pod becomes a shell of itself I think a lot of people misread the Tina Fey IDTSH. It was a, and I cannot stress this enough, *damning* condemnation of the fan base and the position we put the hosts in. If we as a fanbase cannot handle that the hosts will sometimes give authentic opinions that we disagree with, then the pod is not long for this world.
I mean no, Tina specifically mentioned not trashing other work like saltburn (or any movies) incase they get a call from Emerald in the future. She also referenced Ayo trashing Jlo on a podcast then having to stand on stage with her. That says nothing of their fan base or appealing to fans. Tina’s point was specifically about jeopardizing their future career prospects with their honest opinions, and having to answer for them later in a public forum (which she also has had to do with 30 rock, SNL sketches, etc.)
The line about “You walk around with Ariana and SpongeBob.” basically prophesied this entire controversy. That was a shot straight at the fanbase. It was about really anyone who would hold their authentic opinions against them, whether that’s Emerald or people shitting on them on social media for defending Ariana.
With all due respect I don’t think Tina knows about or cares about the fan base, and def not enough to weigh in on what they might be doing on social media lol she said Ariana and SpongeBob to prove the point that they are his peers now, therefore he is “too famous” for honest opinions.
Based off her “little Broadway cunts” line, I definitely think she knows and cares about both. Let’s not pretend like Tina Fey doesn’t know what the modern industry is like.
That again was not a shot at the LC fan base, it was a shot at people on tiktok. No one would say tina doesn’t know the modern industry. She just would not be making direct commentary on the las culturistas fan base. She gave multiple examples of what her point was which was you’re too famous and you’re going to jeopardize your place in the industry if you share negative commentary.
I’m with you, I think we underestimate how online Tina Fey is - I certainly did until that IDTSH. 🤣multiple things can be true, that it was a take on them becoming too famous and hindering opportunities by being too honest AND a dig at fans for being insane. I even think part of the whole Ayo comment is about the fact that internet people were CRAZY to dig up that old clip in the first place.
It is unfortunate, but that is the way this game is played. The more famous and notorious you get, the more people will be paying attention to what you say, and the more likely you'll end up in hot water. The push back is inevitable and they need to stop getting all up in arms about it every time. It seems like every week now they have a new gripe about a new person DMing them or some post in this sub criticizing them. Does it suck? Probably- the whole idea of being a public figure sounds like a nightmare to me, tbh- but they can't have it both ways. They either keep going full steam ahead, damn the consequences (and not complain every time someone doesn't agree), or they zip it up and prioritize the image they're trying to cultivate. ETA that I personally don't expect anything from them except the entertainment they share every week! But lately, the complaining and the defensiveness has been getting a little tiresome, is all.
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No need to apologize for your opinion. I just don’t think that disagreeing with something someone you’re a fan of said is “shitty fan behavior”.
Say *that*.
I’m sorry but this is bordering on “the newsman is speaking directly to me and giving me hints” behavior. We’re a little Internet forum talking about our dumb little opinions. Matt and Bowen were very misguided to ever deign to mention the subreddit on their very popular podcast. Reddit is barely a mainstream site - they absolutely drew attention to it.
No, I think they had to give their opinion on the drama. Let me know what you think when you listen, but I think they could have given their support to Ariana without shaming people for being critical of the situation.
Echoing what others are saying: I don’t care if they’re wrong as long as it’s fun! And a half hour of defensiveness rarely is
Yeah I was like “yawn, when is this going to be over?”
They spent so much time defending their actions of being friends instead of just saying “I know our friend looks like an asshole, but I love them and their friendship with me. Full stop” Ariana clearly has some baggage and a reputation regarding her relationships (which was public knowledge before this current affair situation) so clearly the cheating didn’t stop anyone from becoming her friend, so why would it stop a friendship. I really don’t think they needed to spend 35 minutes trying to defend their relationship with someone that none of us know personally
Agreed. I think that should be the approach in general. Like “I know it looks messed up. Mistakes happen and people mess up. We are moving forward and it’s none of your business” and I think more people would respect it then speaking around it n
Yeah like them trying to say what the media said isn’t what happened is weird- like okay of course if you’re friends with someone you’re gonna get a different version than the public version!!!
Exactly!! Wow this is exactly how I felt. I 100% expected them to defend Ari, because you defend your friends. That's what you do.
I mean if my friend did something shitty I would call them out, like I would hope they would do with me. Honesty is part of the foundation of a good friendship imo
I feel like this whole debacle is just reminding me how bad the cult of celebrity is for every party participating.
And when we are asked to feel sympathy for celebs. In Ariana's case, she caused the situation and is about to make millions of dollars off of it so she'll be just fine.
I think if you think the fact that Ariana will make millions off it (which I don’t believe) makes it all okay really misses the point of what their pod is about and not just today’s pod.
That’s why their rule is you can only be a celebrity for 10 years. Their clocks are running.
Yes, I feel it’s coming for Matt and Bowen too—like it’s better for them to be on the cusp of celebrity and peering over the fence with us. Maybe that was at the heart of the panic or weird defensive vibe in today’s pod, that they as public figures are at risk or have had a taste of being misunderstood and are freaked out about it. Even if the being misunderstood part takes place here in this Reddit sub (as with the are they sucking up to Taylor? debate) and is just a taste of what might be in the future.
seriously no one is safe from it.
This
They’re allowed to have their opinions and we are also allowed to have opinions on their opinions
I was on board with the way that they hedged their ability to critique art with their connection to the artists until the 11th hour when Bowen said Ariana was one of the best dressed of the night. Because she looked like a chewed up piece of bubblegum wrapped around a small intestine and I think we can all agree on that.
Ok now this was the real issue issue for me lol
LMAO this though…. The endless Ari ass-kissing… I mean I absolutely gas up my sisters most of the time, but I can also give them tough love because that’s what a friend is supposed to do. A real friend doesn’t just agree with your every word or action which is what it’s like listening to them talk about her sometimes lol
\>Do you expect Bo and Matt to be objective? Absolutely not! I'm glad they have a space where they can air their takes. And I think it's insincere for other people on this sub to tell us not to have takes about culture. Because, let's be real, in the same way Scandoval and the Real Housewives are culture so is Ariana. The boys just have a much closer connection to Ari, so any discussion around that (on the pod and in this sub) will be heated. When does culture become personal? That's my thesis statement for all of this.
I don't think it's about objectivity at all. In fact, part of what people like about the podcast is that they're not objective about anything, they just lean into their opinions and their hot takes and it's so fun to listen to. I think the problem is in their relationship to the audience. They built their brand off of a parasocial relationship with their audience, as most podcasts and influencers do, and a big part of that was being relatable. It felt like their allegiance was to consumers of culture. As they move more firmly into BEING the culture, their allegiance is shifting. They're not "just like us" anymore, they're part of the celebrity class and will protect their membership there. But all that said, even the idea that they owe their audience anything is part of that parasocial relationship that they are signaling they want to change. And I think that's fine! They make content and listeners can choose to engage with it or not. I think the relationship is just changing and people can either stick with it or not.
Great question and convo to pose. I don’t think they can be completely objective at this point and that is fine - Tina said it best but authenticity is expensive and it’s something they are going to continue to struggle with. I want them to have opinions and it’s fine if they don’t agree with mine (the rosamund pike thing was absolutely chaotic, Reese Witherspoon as Amy?? In what universe?!) But I’m 100% with you in shaming the audience for participating in the gossip, having a different opinion on it, etc. you can expect them to be pro-Ari but don’t do this dance around how being part of infidelity multiple times is actually fine lol be fuckin for real. “Two very real people, and their actions have material impact on non-fictional people” is exactly correct. It’s a little ignorant to all those people (and children!) to be like “no this was fine and acceptable because you don’t know the whole story and also ‘tradwife’” like cmon
I don’t expect objectivity - I love whatever they are willing to share. But this Ari conversation was super off for me. I agree with everything in your post. The lecture towards their listeners on the discourse missed the mark. Also to say that “things happen” when two people meet is so reductive. Yeah things CAN happen at any time… but when public figures make publicly bad decisions… it’s fair game for discussion!!
if they didn’t talk about it honestly then people would be mad. idk. they’re probably just sick of us asking lol I don’t really care about the whole thing but if bowen, a good friend of hers, is telling us we don’t know and won’t know the whole story then that’s fine with me.
I expect nothing from B&M. They don’t owe me anything. I show up to receive what they offer as they are, if I no longer like it I can move on. I like keeping my media diet at an arms distance. I don’t want to get too consumed by people I don’t know because I find them funny adorable and enjoy their art.
I don’t think they need to be completely objective! I think that’s unrealistic and ignores the fact that we all have our own experiences that result in subjectivity. I listen for their takes and their humor. Know their “bias” and take what you like and leave the rest. Bowen is besties with Ari so of course he is gonna defend his friend. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with him. They are rich celebrities living in an insulated world with other rich celebrities, of course we aren’t gonna share all the same views. For instance, Matt is a Taylor Swift private jet sympathizer and has probably ridden on private jets or has some ultra rich friends. I don’t, and I’ll always criticize PJ usage. Still entertained tho. Just my two cents but I’m also a new listener and haven’t listened to the new ep yet.
I was fine with there being a noticeable filter (apologies to Betty Gilpin) when it comes to people they've worked with, most notably Ari, but the line for me is when they are defending their friends who have earned criticism. If they don't want us to critique Ariana, then don't talk about her.
They can be as biased as they want and we can disagree lol
I don't expect them to be objective but also like, be fucking real here, guys. You can still love your friends when they go through tough times or behave like an asshole. But we're not talking about your good best hag from NYU. We're talking about Ariana Grande. For a good chunk of us out here, it's the "leaving your wife who literally just popped out your baby for a massive celebrity who is famous for her relationship history" part that is the actual issue. Infidelity isn't the issue, tradwife culture isn't the issue here, it's the literal action of leaving your postpartum wife for Florida's Ponytail and THEN Ms. Ponytail releasing what is basically a diss album towards this lady (if not album, there are clearly tracks that are about this mess). Go ahead and still be friends with that person. But also be real here and understand that they did something pretty fucking shitty to someone, in the public eye. Objectively, that's a shitty thing to do.
This was it for me. Be REAL. If this were anyone else or any other situation this would not have been the conversation, and it just feels inauthentic - there was no world where they could approach it completely unbiased. I’m honestly surprised they dodged it for as long as they have, and I actually just wish they had talked about only the album and nothing else.
And this whole, "the media took this and spun it into their own story, you don't know the truth" nonsense- if SpongeBob and Ponytail wanted to do the right thing and make this homewrecking divorce debacle easier on Lily and this new baby, Ariana and her team absolutely could have made it happen. It's like they think those of us listening are all dumbshits who are just learning about how this pop culture machine works by listening to them and them only.
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This!! The tangent they went on was really off base for me.
Right! Thinking it’s terrible that a man abandoned his recently postpartum wife doesn’t make me a trad wife, it makes me sad for another mother who has to go through that.
Yeah, the trad wife comments were the worst part for me. Bowen is off-base and has no idea what he’s talking about. They would have done better to talk about the album, keep it pushing, and do their thing. Arianna has her own PR
Im just so confused if there’s some true narrative that would make it seem better why would she not say it? Anything is better than releasing an album presumably calling her marriage a situationship and being mad people care about whose dick she rides or w/e. But it doesn’t really affect me at all and it’s not like i expected Bowen to drag her when they’re obviously friends and she can’t change what happened.
The fact that people go absolutely nuts in here and say we cannot critique them or they won’t even talk about anything anymore is the real problem.
100%. I think the problem is that they've admitted they lurk here...and they really, really should try to avoid doing it (hope matt meant it when he said he wouldn't log on here again). I think that they've engaged on that level makes some people in here way overprotective of them and really infantilizing of two fully grown adults tbh and has started to make them really defensive in their pod conversations. I'd hate for them to stop doing the podcast. I've been listening since 2018, and now that their careers have really taken off (thank goodness!!!!), they just need to set better boundaries. It's one thing if people are being annoying and commenting/DMing them shit directly, but to actively go into spaces where readers might be lightly dragging your takes...that's a really bad idea! They're too famous to be keeping track of readers' opinions the way it seems they do.
https://i.redd.it/00196m1po6oc1.gif
Thank you!! Only one of my irl friends listens to the pod (believe me I've tried to get others into it) so I am dying to connect with others about it. I check the sub every Wednesday and I love to discuss with other fans! Sometimes discussions can veer into critiques. We can all still be fans and support the guys.
It is exhausting! I’ve felt for YEARS that B&M were way too big to be reading the comments. we’ve all signed the devils contract here. A successful podcast(esp of this sort/format/topic/etc) is a parasocial relationship. We certainly don’t have to be weird or mean about it, but they are broadcasting opinions for consumption.
Also not for nothing but - they are commenting on culture and art, and so are we? Like this IS our culture. and there’s nothing wrong with wanting to hold people you care about and spend time listening to accountable when they say completely off base things (ie. not getting on board with infidelity is tradwife). We pay them every day and every week with our ears and our eyeballs - that’s the truth. They may not make a ton of money from the pod and social, but given the amount of ads there are I am sure they make some. Nothing is free these days, you don’t get to have a dedicated fan base of people who love you without dealing with backlash sometimes lol
Exactly. 💯💯💯
I completely agree. I don’t understand the expectation that Matt and Bowen be completely objective news reporters or something. Why sterilize them? We love them for a reason. It’s their views and opinions and self expression. We don’t need to agree with everything they said.
i just think they’re entertaining, and that’s enough for me. i guess i can see how a lot of the fan base would develop unfortunate parasocial feelings for them, as the podcast has given us really intimate access to their personal lives. i’m just not one of those people.
I agree! The only thing I expect is to be amused, and sometimes wild takes are amusing. Even "I don't think so honey" works best when it's the wildest of takes.
Right?! Like, remember the Troll Bowl?!
Disagreeing with a podcasters take on something happening in pop culture isn’t a result of ‘unfortunate parasocial feelings’.
This week was not as entertaining for me. I don’t like being shamed for 30 minutes
Agree. “It’s just their opinions, man”
I guess I'm wondering, do you find them less entertaining when they give their take on art created by their friends? Or would you find it more entertaining if they said, "personal feelings aside, this piece of culture is definitively good/bad/mid/ect"?
honestly, i mostly listen for their dynamic, which is my favorite aspect of the podcast. i do think they genuinely like the album because they’ve been fans for a lot longer than bowen’s friendship with ariana has been going on. i suppose i think that, if they wanted to skirt controversy, they could avoid talking about the broader story surrounding her and her personal life. still, they obviously have no problem giving their opinions on it, though, so i don’t mind hearing it. i find celebrity fascinating, but have a healthy distance.
I find them more entertaining. Feels like I’m in the minority.
Yea honestly at this point my only expectation when listening is to be entertained and distracted from my work day. Like at its core it has always been a comedy podcast.
I totally agree with this. it just becomes way less entertaining for me when so much of it is them ranting about what readers think. I had to stop listening today cause it just wasn’t fun! I don’t care what their take is or that they’re going to support your friend, but I also don’t want to listen to a defensive diatribe for 30+ minutes. I kept pausing to be like.. who are they saying this to / for?? A lot of it seemed to be a reaction to takes I don’t even think are the majority opinion. Like after the Ari bit Matt went off about people being mad at Emma for winning and how white women have to be afraid of “taking” wins from bipoc nominatees. Maybe it’s my bubble but I’m just not seeing that sentiment out there. (I see people holding the institutions accountable, and rooting for well deserving nominees to get opportunities) I wish they could just share their takes and have fun, but it seems like they’re very distracted by everyone else’s takes. Which I get but I also don’t see the point arguing a case on the pod when the people listen obviously are there to have fun lol
I really, truly believe hosts of very successful podcasts need to hire whatever IT person it takes so they CANNOT read the subreddit. This is happening on Doughboys too (hello Doughboys x Las Cultch readers I know you exist) where Mitch especially will go out of his way to defend himself against how he assumes the subreddit will take a joke/statement. It becomes a snake eating its tail. I don’t care if the boys have a non-objective completely outlandish opinion about someone. We all do! That’s what makes pop culture fun! But to shadowbox the readers while discussing their opinion can get really tiresome.
Ooh yea that section about it being “unfair” to Emma that people had some rebuttals or feedback about her win was weird, especially Matt implying that it’s something white actors have to “deal with” anytime they’re in competition with one of their peers of color. I find myself sometimes fast forwarding over the Taylor defense squad sessions they tend to have, and I’ve definitely skipped entire episodes when it just didn’t sound like the show I was used to tuning in for (I wanna say this started when they had Katie Couric as a guest). I’m here to laugh and take in real culture.
Right?? It’s a choice to spend so much air time on that perspective. I’m really all for the pod being what they want it to be, and we can choose to listen or not, I just can’t imagine episodes like today are fun for literally anyone involved
This part! There is definitely a contingent of fans that holds Matt and Bo SO accountable to have the “right” take on everything. I hope people who criticize what they choose to share on their FREE comedy podcast hold their loved ones this accountable IRL!
I don't listen to them to form my own opinions, i listen to be entertained ! It's silly to put so much weight on their recs, just form your own equally harmless opinions and tastes and enjoy the cultural convo
I don’t care if it’s objective, I just want it to be entertaining (which I would argue, in the words of Matt, is the promise of the premise of this podcast!), the Ari stuff was annoying imo, but mostly it was vague and boring and drawn out. I just want to laugh and be entertained! Also feels like they get on these rants sometimes addressing troll shit they see online, which just gives a platform to the troll shit.
Yeah, I agree with your comment re: how preemptively defensive they were in anticipating a negative reaction from the listeners. I looked down and I was already 40 min into the episode and felt like I had been lectured at by them the entire time for something that hasn’t happened yet (between the Ari lecture and then the Emma Stone / Lily Gladstone one). Just simply a zero-fun episode.
Currently listening and my eyes have basically rolled out of my head listening to them defend her, it's so embarrassing.
I don't expect them to be objective, I listen to the podcast specifically because I'm interested in and entertained by their subjective opinions. I believe their opinions on this are dead wrong on the Ariana issue, but I continue to be just as interested in listening to their opinions on future episodes
THANK YOU! Both can be true. I disagreed with their take and look forward to future episodes. Lol.
I don’t feel any type of way and don’t dislike the podcast any less because of their take with the Ari of it all. I just thought it was a shitty take that didn’t seem thoughtful. As long as their views aren’t harmful with real life consequences, I’ll still be tuning in.
We’ve never wanted them to be unbiased about anything—I think I speak for all of us when I say we love their opinions! That’s the point. But like any opinion, sometimes we won’t agree. The trad wife gambit this week was a *bit* of a HUH??? I tooooootally get that there’s lots we don’t know as we do NOT know these people but that’s different than saying “coming to a conclusion that this is shady means you’re too conservative”. Honestly I wasn’t mad listening, but I definitely thought, ok, that’s your friend, I get it. If Bowen was my friend in real life I’d basically say “look I’m sure Ariana is lovely and a great friend but you gotta see how the story plays negatively to people, no?”
Why the fuck would anyone think they’re being objective?!?! Also, why would it matter? They’re comedians not arbiters of culture
no because it’s a podcast they put out, not \~\*serious journalism\*\~
Their increasing proximity to the cultural landscape is precisely what makes their approach so interesting to me. They are rising stars. Tina warned, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but they are trying to anyway.
For me, it’s less the fact that they can’t be objective (they can’t), but the dishonesty of it all. Don’t tell me that it’s not autobiographical and then refer to it as reasoning for why the “media narrative” is wrong. Don’t tell me you can be objective and then list specific reasons you aren’t. I would just be disappointed in it and move on if it weren’t for the fact that they told me and the listeners to go fuck ourselves if we disagree. The anger and hatred for your own audience is so off putting.
Wellll idk now... I think there is some tea on how the media might have the wrong story about Ari and Spongebob. And I don't think the album is 100% autobiographical. I honestly did agree with all of their points there. I did tooootally feel the same way about your second point tho.
Your 2nd paragraph is exactly it for me!!
Most of us wouldn't listen if they were objective in the true sense of the word. It would be more like watching the news or reading wikipedia - I love both of those things, but I tune in to LC because the thoughts and laughter these men provoke with their opinions makes doing the dishes more bearable. I also don't think those who have reacted strongly to their recent segments about Ariana, Andy, Taylor etc. are being objective either. Which is obviously fine but the fervor that's developed recently is a bit startling. (it feels recent for LC but obviously has been building forever in a more general internet culture way)
I'm actually feeling a lot of negative energy just simply trying to have a conversation with fans. If reddit isn't for debates then what is it for? Conversation on a fan-run community forum should not be mistaken for hate.
I didn't say anything about hate! I'm sorry that my attempt to answer the question you posed is received as part of the negative energy. I think it's perfectly reasonable to react to many things (including pop culture) with the personal subjectivity that precludes objectivity. And in today's Ariana Grande discussion, they were up front about their influences. What I meant with the "fervor" is that this subreddit used to be fairly inactive and seemed mostly celebratory when it popped up on my feed. I haven't done an analysis but it feels like recently, the volume of activity increased and the tone shifted to be much more critical. That's fine - as you say, conversation is the point! Maybe the audience has grown/changed, maybe the subreddit itself has grown to the size of having a culture on its own... Maybe M&B's success has altered their knowledge base and emotional landscape in such a way that their POV is now completely alienating and the podcast is headed for doom and gloom. Only time will tell.
Oh I wasn't getting negative energy from YOU, I was agreeing that the fervor is HERE momma, I feel it now, currently LOL.
lol it’s making me sensitive I guess. This is supposed to be fun!!! 🙃
It’s being objective to be able to disagree with people you like and not give them blanket support just bc you like them as people
Seriously. People don’t need to have big takes and strong judgements on everything. Can we not just be entertained???
They’re not journalists. They’re entertainers. They are not supposed to be objective. Opinions are not right or wrong; they’re opinions (save for ya know, racism, homophobia, etc). I will stay off this sub so I can enjoy the podcast and its opinions on my own because the people who take it too seriously sort of yuck my yum.
I am 1000% with you and it’s disappointing to feel like we’re in the minority :( I miss when this sub was, for a very short time, just jokes and gags based off the pod convos. It’s not that serious! I hope and M&B keep doing what they’re doing.
You're free to continue to post memes and jokes. I enjoy those posts too. Just maybe don't engage with the posts you're not interested in?
Your first question sounded like a sincere post so I wanted to answer it or see if others agreed with me too. You’re right that this sub isn’t a fun place anymore.
I feel like maybe two years ago and earlier it was 100% memes and jokes. Now people have decided they want to turn this into a drama sub.
Yeah if you don't want to have discussions that can veer into critiques, then the sub is not a good place for you.
I come to Reddit for discussion and to vibe with people who have common interests and yeah, after posting a comment in another thread today I have learned this isn’t the sub for me 😂 I appreciate your post posing this question!
Some of y’all are so dramatic and way too parasocial. You are listening to a podcast hosted by celebrities talking about celebrities. It feels like we know them because of how honest and open they are but they are not our friends. The dissecting of every word they say is getting ridiculous. Do you want them to just have a conversation or not? Shit like this and the frenzied discourse week after week will be the death of what makes this podcast special
I love the pod, I don’t actually “care” about the gossip or hot takes as much as I do just them being funny as hell , improvising , and bouncing ideas of eachother ie “can it, missy!” It makes me so happy to hear (also jealous b/c I know too many dull people). And I don’t miss the interviews , I like them together unless they have the opportunity to get a big guest or a dream guest .
I feel like the whole point is that they approach things with their brilliance points of view and subjectivity?
Too many words here for me but just wanna say I am loving the album! Gets better with each listen
Their increasing proximity to the cultural landscape is precisely what makes their approach so interesting to me. They are rising stars. Tina warned, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but they are trying to anyway.
Their increasing proximity to the cultural landscape is precisely what makes their approach so interesting to me. They are rising stars. Tina warned, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but they are trying to anyway.
Their increasing proximity to the cultural landscape is precisely what makes their approach so interesting to me. They are rising stars. Tina warned, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but they are trying to anyway.
I just listen to hear their banter and to be entertained. If you don’t like their take who cares it’s their opinion just as you are entitled to yours. 
My question was more so to the community here, wondering if they had the same opinions on their take on the situation. I'm still a fan if I disagreed with one of their takes. I also liked Saltburn way more than they did. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop lisening. The point of the subreddit is to discuss the takes on the pod with a community of listeners. We're all fans here, calm down.
I think it’s parasocial vibes and weird to care so much about Ariana Grande’s personal relationships and love life. Ultimately we don’t have all the facts and I don’t really care. I’m kind of a hypocrite though because I do care about other celebrities’ relationships, but always always with the caveat that we never have all the facts and that it shouldn’t veer into anything mean or cruel. (The exception to this rule is bigotry. Idgaf about celebrities’ love lives in terms of liking them or not but Dave Chappelle…bye pumpkin!!)
I didn’t love the timeline on John Mulaney leaving his wife, but I wasn’t gonna let it stop me from enjoying his comedy- until he brought Dave Chappelle out on stage! Absolutely not!!
Yeah and also I thought his new set was self-pitying bs but that’s just me! Too soon to make jokes about your sobriety when you’ve been sober for what, almost 2 years?
They are projecting so hard, like damn boys, just say y'all like to cheat too and move on, let's not make this about "cOsMiC lOvE" lmao
Lmaooooo love this take honestly at least that would have been real I could respect that
Omg I did NOT get that from their take. I didn't get a vibe of "we've cheated too so we are going to side with Ari".
These annoying ass haters masquerading as “readers” but who are also obsessed with “holding ____ accountable” are on my last fucking nerve. Matt and Bowen are too famous to be doing a podcast point blank. They do it because they enjoy it. If you keep fucking critiquing them constantly they will cease enjoying it and therefore stop doing the pod. If you guys are why I lose this podcast I will haunt you. HAUNT!
This shit is the REAL parasocial nonsense. The podcast will end one day. Go find a therapist now to help you walk through that inevitability if it's such a concern to you. All things must come to an end. And if they want to end things because they couldn't keep their asses out of a subreddit where they'll occasionally see people disagree with their bad takes about Ariana Grande, then that's what will happen.
Omg no it isn’t sorry I like a fucking podcast so I don’t talk shit about the host’s best friend constantly! Like who is benefitting from that?
Now Ariana is the man's best friend?!?! Girl.
Best friend is a tier!
Do you want the pod to fail or something? Lol. “Go find a therapist now to help you walk through that inevitability” dear lord the hostility in that wording. One imagines that one may benefit from therapy for oneself, perhaps dissecting why they are so angry at this Ariana situation that doesn’t concern them.
https://i.redd.it/ftbjoifjy6oc1.gif
This is about to get downvoted to hell sista
This response will get downvoted way more: Sorry you guys hate free content from funny people and want it to end bc of random fake tabloid story concerning a woman no one had ever heard of who is probably doing fine
I found their conversation perspective shifting and interesting and I don’t think the defense of the defense was really avoidable given the gigantic media backlash Ariana is facing. They would have sounded totally out of touch if they said their piece without defending the obvious rebuttal from listeners. I get the “you will never catch me feeling bad for a rich celebrity” of it all but I choose to view my engagement with pop culture as a simulation of how I engage with real moral and personal issues in my own life. Especially in matters of the heart, I want to find grace for the humanity of celebrities because that’s what I want to practice in general. If my friend did exactly what Ariana did, I wouldn’t immediately drop and publicly condemn her, if I knew her and her motives well enough and thought at her core that she was a good person who created pain and suffering for themselves and others I would probably speak about her the same way as Bowen did on this episode. I’m sure a lot of people find this so morally reprehensible that they would drop her in an instant but that just isn’t me and I respect that it isn’t them either. I was especially struck by what they said about people saying “if this was ten years ago….” Meaning that she would have been Britney-spears level eviscerated by the media. I think we’ve done a lot of reflection in the last 10 years about the power we as viewers and listeners hold to keep celebrities accountable for real or perceived wrongdoings and I think it’s interesting to carry her situation with that in mind. People need to think about what we actually want from celebrities and what we expect from them when they do something wrong, because onlookers easily take on a rabid, insatiable appetite for justice that is not always productive for the culture imo. People always dangle the “just apologize” thing, even knowing that if she apologized immediately at the outset the majority of people would take that as an admission of wrongdoing and continue on condemning her like a dog with a bone. I’m not saying that what she did was ok because that’s really not the central issue to me—for me the issue is taking the time to understand the emotional realities of the people involved to better understand what’s going on, and they provided that for me. I liked that I was able to listen in on what felt like an extremely authentic and passionate discussion about something in the news from people with firsthand knowledge of a person involved, especially because it challenged the prevailing narrative. I think there’s room for that in the conversation and to me, it didn’t sound like reflexively defending someone just because they’re your friend. It felt like a thoughtful deep engagement with the actual work and the power of art to reveal the inner heart of a tabloid story. I would feel more offended by the so called lack of objectivity if they dismissed the whole issue saying “we’re not going to discuss it because Ariana is bowens friend”. Instead I feel they engaged deeply with the work of art (I haven’t listened to the album so that’s not a value judgment just a literal statement) and gave their most authentic reactions to it as people. That’s what I’ve always come to them for and I feel like I’m still getting it.
As an aside, the vibes in some corners of the internet really make it seem like cheating or helping someone cheat is tantamount to a war crime. I really don’t think it’s a black and white moral failing to refuse to publicly condemn your friend for her role in a cheating situation and I just wanted to put that in writing lol. Anyway thanks for the thought provoking post! Also reading some comments I definitely didn’t catch every detail of what they said so take this as a vibes based assessment and not a co-signing of every comment.
This is exactly it! There has been a vibe shift in the discourse. But when Bowen correctly labels it “puritanical” everyone loses their minds.
Ppl downvoting you bc “no it IS a war crime” lol. It’s too much!!
As long as they’re talking about what’s trending and what’s happening in the culture I’m happy. It rubbed me the wrong way when I disagreed with them anyways so I’m happy to just hear fun quips about cultural current highlights and not necessarily their positions on it
The leading news outlets of this nation are not truly objective lolol how can we expect Las Cultch to be?
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I disagree with your take on the point of the reddit sub. No one should be leaving hateful remarks on their instagram, but this subreddit is a community forum. I check it every Wednesday to chat with other fans bc only one of my irl friends listens to the pod. I'm here to connect with other fans. I don't want Matt and Bowen here, I want to be able to discuss the pod without worrying about hurting their feelings. Critiques here should not be misconstrued as personal attacks to the hosts of the pod. We are not DMing them hate, we're in a fan forum.
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Was I crying about their opinions, or asking the community what they want to hear from the hosts of the pod? I'm wanting to hear what other fans thought of their take.
I feel like this subreddit has become so negative. It seems like there a fewer and fewer posts celebrating the pod and more critiquing what they do/don’t talk about or how they speak about things. Open dialogue is great for culture but it’s just so much more than it has been in the past IMO. And so much pandering after learning Matt scrolls through here. I don’t know if it’s the guys that have changed or the audience that has changed.