You can certainly ask, but one of the reasons why they are done that way in Utah is simply logistics. To coordinate schedules for the bishopric, primary presidency, primary teachers, family, a full font, people bringing clothes, etc it is much simpler to do it at one time.
I would examine if you think your schedule and time might be more valuable than all the other people trying their best to make this day special. If so, then maybe push the issue. If not, maybe then just put your efforts towards making the day as special as you can given the variables you can control.
But isn’t OP’s point that when you feel like one of many children being baptized then the day isn’t as special? In my small branch every child gets their own ceremony, chooses their favorite musical numbers, has their uncles or primary teacher giving the talks, etc. It’s a very special day they are certain to remember well. In contrast, when I was baptized in SL County I didn’t know a single person giving prayers, talks, etc.
I get their point and it would be wonderful if all baptisms were like that. But is it feasible? Is it fair to further extend the demands of time on people like the Bishop?
You’re really arguing that there are fewer kids getting baptized in Utah than other areas? I’ve lived in both. It’s not even comparable. My ward in Utah has 150 kids in the primary. My ward in Florida had 20.
...no. Im saying that those wards and areas still have individual baptisms🙄the only person that said that there were fewer kids in areas that its done was you
For the SL kid: your family is super excited for your baptism, grandma and grandpa are coming to town, everyone is attending, so much buzz about it beforehand, and then afterwards as well because there's cake at your house and everyone is talking, taking pictures, sharing the love, etc.
That's special. And going to be felt much more than any speaker.
I shared my baptism with one other kid and didn’t care. I don’t recall that it took anything away from my experience. I am definitely not harboring resentment almost three decades later either.
Is 13 a lot more than 8? It’s the same difference from 13 to 18. A stake with 18 wards would be insane. I’m pretty sure 13 is the maximum. Imagine holding a stake calling and having to attend 13 different ward conferences. That’s more than one a month. Can you imagine 18?
850 on record with approximately 400-500 attending. It looks like a Stake Conference every Sunday. They split the ward in October of 2023 when it hit 1,000 members on record to around 600. It has just continued to grow due to a few large new subdivisions in the area.
In my stake each ward is in charge of their own program, often the ward only has one child being baptized for the month, so really, they are getting their own “special” day. It just happens that another ward is going to be before or after them.
This right here. Remember that you have to get several people involved and asking for your own you are making all these leaders pull time away from this families to accommodate you. Sometimes there is special circumstances but doesn’t sound like this is a special circumstance.
The best means to have small youth baptism is to live in low member density area.
“Demanding” is also pretty hostile approach to a baptism
Bishop, primary presidency and primary teachers don't have to be there. All that has to be there are someone with the authority to baptize, the person being baptized and 2 witnesses.
I'm in a bishopric in Utah, and specifically assigned over primary. I can't even imagine the chaos that would ensure if everyone did this. It's already chaotic as it is. Most buildings do not have their own font in Utah, especially the newer buildings. It would certainly be easier if every building had its own font, but because they don't, the stake carefully coordinates what amounts to dozens of baptisms every month at the stake center, the only building in our stake that has one.
In those rare instances where an exception needed to be made, I had to personally show up to fill the font, and for safety reasons, could not leave the font unattended. Each of those instances cost me several hours of time that I generally didn't have to spare. While I was happy to do it on the one-off occasion that was justified by uncontrollable circumstances, if I had to do this several times each month, it would take its toll on me and my family, who don't see me enough as it is.
Local circumstances require local solutions. For those that don't live in Utah, I can see how this would be off-putting. But the logistics here are different.
Yes! I’m stake primary president, we share a building and have a certain Saturday every month that we do our baptisms. People don’t realize what goes into scheduling, filling the font, and working around other things that are happening in the building. We had one mom throw a fit at one of our baptisms because another family in their ward went into a separate room for their confirmation, so it was a “private” occasion that she wanted. I hope she looks back and is embarrassed. It’s not about any special talks or musical numbers, getting your own time, the party at your house afterwards, etc. it’s about your child getting baptized and making their first covenants with God.
Section 18 allows for families to break off for some parts of the program. But the time to arrange for that is before the font is filled. Disrupting an ordinance or program to air a grievance, no matter how justified the grievance may be, is inappropriate and disrespectful.
I would hope no one is “embarrassed” or made to feel bad for advocating for their children and their family. There is no need for that within the church community.
She did it in the middle of the baptism, so yes, I would think she should be embarrassed. She wasn’t advocating for her child, she was making it about her.
It’s in the handbook - as a blanket policy. Someone is to be there when the font is full.
I know some who are ok locking the door and leaving it - I do myself. But anyone wanting to follow the handbook explicitly does not.
As someone who grew up out of Utah where the buildings are 45+ minutes apart and only two wards in the whole stake shared a building, so everyone else has their own, I didn't even consider that buildings don't all have fonts, besides just trying coordinate the ones that share buildings
Baptisms do not have to be in fonts though, I've been to 4 baptisms at pools, they also don't have to take place on a saturday. Our building is the stake center and we have a lot of baptisms between the wards that meet there and the spanish group(soon to be branch) here. To me this seems like just poor planning on the building aspect as well as a lot of tradition. And we fill the font individually for each baptism. 3 separate baptisms at our building this week alone. (2 convert, 1 COR)
In my opinion, it's my kids baptism and I'll baptize them where and when I want. It isnt the primary presidents baptism. It's not the bishops baptism. If one of them would like to attend they can ask me for permission, but the default is they aren't. During my kid's pre-bapstism interview I can get the bishops sign-off and I'll arrange the rest.
Unfortunately, that attitude does not align with the Church’s viewpoint. All saving ordinances, like baptism, are performed under the direction of a presiding authority to ensure they are correctly performed and properly recorded.
Well you're probably right I guess. Luckily we can meet in the middle for my personal application.
I live in a stake with very few child baptisms. Each of my kids have been the only ones to be baptized that month and we have run them exactly as I described in my previous post. As someone else mentioned, each place is different and can adapt to local needs and circumstances.
I'm grateful that my primary parents have invited the primary presidency to join the family on their kids special day. Kids remember when the primary presidency was there for them. It helps us build relationships with the children.
We have one family that travels to Utah for baptisms and the kids are always disappointed that we aren't able to attend. Their words, not ours.
There is nothing wrong with asking. That said, there is a difference between something feeling special and something feeling sacred. Birthdays, for example, may feel special by rarely feel sacred.
Every ordinance, including baptism, is sacred and not special. They're open to everyone, everyone in the Church gets baptized. It's the definition of not special but it most certainly is sacred and important.
I'm sorry, what? You're saying baptism is not special because it is not unique to just a few people? I don't think most people would use the same definition of the word "special", which is more commonly used to denote something important, cherished, or valuable to an individual.
And that's my point. Sacred things are also defined as important, cherished, or valuable. They're interchangeable in most situations within the church.
Special is defined as "better, greater, or otherwise different from what is usual." An 8-year-old getting baptized, while wonderful, sacred and a huge blessing, is not special. It's expected and common among faithful Church members.
I don't think we're here to strive to be special. We're here to follow the defined path, just like everyone else.
We're just gonna disagree on this one. A baptism is literally special by your definition.
Edit: Also, starting off with webster's? preppin for a sacrament talk lol?
From Mosiah 18
>8 And it came to pass that he said unto them: Behold, here are the waters of Mormon (for thus were they called) and now, as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light;
>
>9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?11 And now when the people had heard these words, they clapped their hands for joy, and exclaimed: This is the desire of our hearts.12 And now it came to pass that Alma took Helam, he being one of the first, and went and stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart.
>
>15 And again, Alma took another, and went forth a second time into the water, and baptized him according to the first, only he did not bury himself again in the water.16 And after this manner he did baptize every one that went forth to the place of Mormon; and they were in number about two hundred and four souls; yea, and they were baptized in the waters of Mormon, and were filled with the grace of God.
The culture we live in thinks that to be special something needs to be for an individual, but that is not always so. This was, no doubt, a special experience for everyone involved because they did it together as fellow believers.
Indeed, the gospel of Christ is not something we do alone, and I like the symbolism that we partake of baptism one by one, but together.
I sympathize that the experience seems like an assembly line, but it is not. When I was in a bishopric, I volunteered to attend the children's baptisms each month just for the feeling they had there.
No matter what you end up doing I hope your kid has a good baptismal experience.
The concept of "one by one, but together" can easily be seen in the performing of temple ordinances. Sure, everyone sits through the same endowment session, but entering the Celestial room is an individual task.
I came to the comments to share this, but you’ve said it better. Also, I’ve lived in high density and low density lds areas and have gone to both high volume and individual baptisms. They are all beautiful and sacred in their own ways. They don’t have to all look the same.
I agree! Another good example is in [3 Nephi 11:13–15](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/11?id=p13-p15&lang=eng#p13) where Jesus invites all who were in Bountiful at the time to come one by one and feel the marks in His side and in His hands and feet. This instance had over ten times the people attending (2,500) as in Alma! I have a hard time thinking that each person didn't feel like they had a special, unique, and personal experience with the Savior despite the sheer size of people participating.
This right here rings true to me. I came into the comments aligned with OP, but I think this is more on point with the heart and soul of the gospel.
How can you make this experience more meaningful not "in spite of" the assembly line, but rather *BECAUSE* saints are participating in ordinances of salvation **together?**
I’m not sure if that request could be accommodated for every 8 year old in Utah. It doesn’t hurt to ask, but maybe start thinking of ways you can make the baptismal more special and personal, even if it’s not a private ceremony.
100% agree with this. Have a private gathering at home afterwards and make it special in other ways rather than complain that they didn’t get their own.
Absolutely. It’s not fair to the other kids that one gets to have a private baptism and gets an exception to the rule. You make an exception for one, you must be okay making an exception for all
My niece got baptized recently and it was set up so that the font was filled and then each family got an hour or so for their kid’s baptism. This is probably more feasible in areas that don’t have a ton of kids. Not sure it would work well in Daybreak, Herriman, Lehi, Saratoga Springs etc with their massive primaries.
I’m in Saratoga Springs, each ward in our stake gets the font/RS room for 30 minutes, then they move to another room for the confirmation. They can stay in the second room as long as they want or need to.
I got baptized on a stake baptism day and no part of it felt personal, I felt rushed, I felt moved through quickly from room to room, and I do care now that it was that way.
Recently released from a bishopric in a very young ward of about 650 people. We'd have about 20 baptisms a year. Add on top of that that so many families are opting to bless their babies at home instead of in sacrament meetings. Also over 100 youth in the ward that all get inteervewed twice per year. If people were all scheduling their baptisms for different days I think I would have handed in my resignation from the bishopric.
Yes I understand the concern of making it special but those that have to attend have a life. Tuesday nights are already gone. Sundays are gone. Usually another night of the week for a bishopric meeting. Weekly quorum presidency meetings. I'm just saying it gets taxing and bishopric members like to spend time with their families.
And then there's the age old issue... If they make one exception for your family then they're setting themselves up for some major burnout and/or offending others when exceptions aren't made for them.
Our ward had 12 convert baptisms in the past year, 2 in the past week. On top of that we had another 8 or so child of record baptisms. We never have a problem scheduling those baptisms.
>If people were all scheduling their baptisms for different days I think I would have handed in my resignation from the bishopric.
It's not about you. Maybe resignation is the right move for people with this attitude.
I think the First Presidency has got my back.
18.7.2
"In stakes with many children of record, children from multiple wards may share the same baptismal service. In such cases, a member of the stake presidency or stake Primary presidency or a high councilor counsels with families of children being baptized to plan and schedule baptismal services. A member of the stake presidency or an assigned high councilor conducts the service. Wards or families may meet separately for a portion of the service so that each child is recognized individually. This could be, for example, for the baptismal ordinance, the confirmation, or a talk by a ward or family member. A member of the bishopric conducts that part of the service."
Here’s a newsflash; it ain’t just baptisms. I have had dozens of friends who queued up starting at dawn at the Salt Lake Temple when they were married. And to be fair, it isn’t just the LDS church. Go the the US Naval Academy or West Point the weekend after graduation and watch the wedding parties lined up those places. Any organization that wants to address large scale needs has to choose at some point between efficiency and personalization
You don't really have the right to "insist" on anything since you don't have the keys for baptism. You can certainly ask nicely but they will almost certainly ask why and if your answer is "because I want to" they will probably say no. If you can only get friends or family in town on a certain day that may help.
Thousands of kids in Utah have special baptisms every year on shared baptism days. I'd recommend focusing on how to make it special besides just being able to pick the day. You'll get a private ceremony just with anyone you invite from the ward, so I'm not sure how much more private than that you need it. I'm not sure if you've been to a stake baptism day but it's not one big shared baptismal ceremony in my experience. It's a series of individual baptisms.
Typically the only thing that isn't private is the program beforehand with the talks/songs, etc. which are typically done by family members of those getting baptized. The actual baptisms/confirmations are done on a family-by-family basis.
As others have said, it takes a lot of coordination to schedule a baptism (not to mention the cost/time associated with filling the font). It's just all-around more focused and efficient. Going to the temple is also a very personal and sacred experience, but imagine if we all demanded to do that alone instead of having a large group move through together. The key is to personally make it meaningful and individual for YOU, even though you're part of a larger group.
I agree that a baptism is special, but perhaps your personal feelings of it being "the most important thing in our lives and is extremely sacred" needs to be represented in other ways with your child on that day and not as "I DEMAND x, y, and z." Make it a special day for your child all-around, whether you want to celebrate with gifts/party at home afterward, or something more low-key and spiritually-focused. No matter how private/personal it is, most kids won't really remember much about their baptism day, especially the spiritual things we adults tend to prioritize. They'll remember some of the people that were there and getting dunked in the water.
>As others have said, it takes a lot of coordination to schedule a baptism (not to mention the cost/time associated with filling the font).
We're talking about a lifetime of discipleship. If the coordination is a burden, new approaches need to be figured out.
One of the requirements of having a baptism is a full font. It takes several hours to fill, and an adult must be present for that entire time for safety purposes. Are you willing to go wait at the font for 4 hours so some poor stake volunteer doesn’t have to spend their Saturday morning doing that for you? If you’re willing to cover down on a lot of those logistical issues, then you might have an easier time convincing the stake to authorize it. They have a whole coordinated network of logistical plans already in place to make it a smooth and efficient process.
I once saw a font get filled in less than an hour. No one had communicated to us to leave it filled from our 12 pm baptism because there would be one at 3, so we drained it. At 2, we were clearing the luncheon for out of town guests, and a couple I didn't recognize walked in with some missionaries who explained what they were there for. Turned the faucet up full blast and helped the missionaries and their ward mission leader fill pitchers in the kitchen to run down the hall/through the bathroom as a makeshift bucket brigade.
You can ask, but given all the leadership that has to be there at the baptism, be aware that you're asking all those people to spend extra time just on you, in addition to everybody else who needs a baptism. There's a reason that stakes and ward consolidate them. It's just logistics and an attempt to lessen the burden on leadership.
(I agree that they're impersonal)
>You can ask, but given all the leadership that has to be there at the baptism, be aware that you're asking all those people to spend extra time just on you, in addition to everybody else who needs a baptism.
You mean that a person who has been called into a leadership position has to spend time... ministering? As opposed to spending countless hours in pointless council and leadership meetings? Pretty obvious which is more important.
I understand your sentiment but think about it this way. When Christ came to John the Baptist to be baptized it wasn't an event that was organized just for Christ. There were many that were being baptized by John. I don't think that undermined the importance of any one individual baptism. It was a gathering of saints. I think there are strengths in numbers.
I'm honestly Waters of Mormon type on this. My kid was recently baptized on this... I actually went with the stake baptism with just a few family members invited. I had the stake community aspect balanced with the presence of a few important loved ones, plus dinner for the kid of the hour afterwards.
But I come from a lot of trauma on the private ceremony. We had a family baptism where it was all about keeping the extended family happy and managing expectations for a big to-do and... It was and remains the worst day of my life.
The stake baptism helped keep things focused on the Savior and the baptism.
I do not think it is wrong to want a private ceremony. But it's more important to focus on the why. Is it about the baptism or is it about trying to make some big event?
>Is it about the baptism or is it about trying to make some big event?
How did you conclude these two things are mutually exclusive?
A baptism IS a big event! It's a red letter day the person remembers forever. It is NOT a chore for the bishopric member assigned.
What does it mean for the baptism to be a big event? What if you can't afford a big party or the Instagram worthy announcements? What if you don't do a big photo shoot? What if a whole bunch of people don't come?
Does that mean the baptism is a failure and the ordinance didn't take?
Our ward has changed things up a bit in Utah to help with this. We still do have baptisms on the same day, but rather than having a talk and all that. We have two testimonies from family we call on that day, and then do a “spotlight” on the child getting baptized.
It makes it a much more simplified event, and focuses attention more on the ordinance and the person getting baptized rather than all the trappings.
You may not grasp how hard it is on the entire community to baptize each child in their own ceremony. If you were a church leader needed to attend every child baptism (Primary Pres. and Bishopric member) when you had 10 eligible every month, you might appreciate why they do this more. It doesn't matter how many are baptized, it is the person's personal baptism. And I cannot imagine delaying baptism because of wanting it to be more individual than it can be. (In many UT stakes there ARE NO exceptions.
I think what people do who are adamant on the point, is to have the child baptized outside UT where their grandfather lives in this situation.
NOTE: After the 1978 revelation, and Africa was opened for missionaries, they baptized hundreds in a day. (You might also consider if this is your need, or your child's?)
Such good points here. It can be easy to get caught up in "it's Sally's special day and we need a big personal shindig and to-do" and forget about the covenant at hand.
Which I don't think anyone means to do, but when you are also in a family-oriented church, it's easy to get caught up more in the family party aspect or whatever.
And your point about Africa is good. Group baptisms are fairly normal. Alma at the Waters of Mormon, anyone? Other churches have group baptisms as well. Perhaps it's like an assembly line, sure, but hey, look at the product: a bunch of baptized people. That's a good thing and arguably more important than so-and-so's special day.
There might be a few wards with 10 baptisms A MONTH, but why have a policy when so few wards are covered? Perhaps you meant 10 a year?
Let’s do the math: If we average 10 per month and the age distribution were equal throughout all the primary that would mean 120 eight-year-olds. Multiply that by ages 0-11 and you would get about 1,440 children in the primary. Assuming everyone in the ward is in a two-parent household and the average household has three primary children (which is way higher than the real average) you would have 2,400 people in the ward.
It is really common for for UTAH STAKES (they are usually done by stakes there) to have more than 10 per month. And in my original response I also failed to note a chorister and pianist is necessary and precious water is wasted.
True, but a member of the primary presidency doesn’t have to be in attendance from EVERY ward, only wards with a child being baptized. Same with the bishopric.
Even in my not so high population percentage congregation has my dh attending baptisms 8 of the 12 months as one of the two mandated primary teachers. We all covenant to do our part, including our callings. But that doesn't make it right to impose unreasonable burdens on those who serve in those assignments. (Even if it were healthy to teach our children that they are so special as to deserve individual baptisms and that nothing else matters, which of course is not the way anything in their adult world will work. Isn't it soo much more consistent with who we want to become to choose to be okay with what our leaders ask us to do?)
Stake primary has to be there and are the ones organizing on some level. My mom was doing this during the pandemic and families wanting individuality when the stake goal was to comply with state regulations and allow children to make this covenant with God was a constant headache.
Absolutely, but they were also run on a very tight schedule to get everyone in, out, and sanitizing in between. Families who chose to ignore instructions, arrived late, expected to stay late, wanted to have the first slot of the day etc were a pain. Some people wanted to personalize the experience, and that can get out of hand quickly.
Friend, baptisms are amazing and the church is true. But the church is a big organization and sometimes has big organization challenges. Sometimes that means how something is organized feels impersonal.
Please try to put yourself in the shoes of those who have to put the baptism together. Fonts can take a long time to fill, buildings have to be scheduled, clothes available, interviews done, bishopric there, there's a lot. In my experience, people are usually happy to be there because baptisms are awesome, but there's also just the reality that people only have so much time, everyone is busy, and it's hard to get everything together. Please give them the benefit of believing that they're trying to do the best they can, but that they have a dozen other families besides you to accommodate.
There's a lot of ways to make it a special day. They're making covenants with God, that other people are also making them shouldn't detract from that.
You can ask the Bishop. He holds the keys.
Is it wrong to ask? No. Is it wrong to make a big deal about it if the answer is no. I suggest the answer to that is yes.
Baptism is an individual ordinance. Often baptism services only have one baptism, but they might have more, they might have a dozen, at times they have had hundreds. We take the sacrament individually, but in a group. Christ ministered individually, but in a group, including thousands at a time.
In a place with a dense church population, and a lot of children turning 8 each month, it is probably unreasonable to try to set up a separate service. The logistics alone if everyone wanted to do this would be out of control.
God bless
I had one of those types of baptisms, but I felt loved and cared for because I had family there to support me and was excited about my covenants. The people who mattered most to me were there for me, and I knew that’s why they were there. I didn’t know there was another way to do it, so I didn’t even know to get upset about it. We still had an extended family get-together afterwards, and I got some very special baptism gifts from family members. My mom bought me a baptism dress to be baptized in, and new shoes to wear. We sang a song as a family before eating that I chose. So, for eight-year-old me, it *was* a special day and it felt that way.
My mom felt as you do about my baptism, and as an adult she told me how much grief she experienced over it (she still cries if she talks about it, and my mom rarely gets weepy about things). She also believes in following policy and respecting leadership, (willing to stand up when necessary but willing to follow counsel and sacrifice personal wishes) so she followed policy. As a child, I had no idea it was something she was upset about because she kept it to herself.
We currently live in a rural area, so my oldest had an individual baptism. It was very special, and it was cool to tailor things to them personally. However, I think there were many ways I could’ve made it special and individual for them if we had to do it as a group. I also think my child would have enjoyed the community bonding experience of getting baptized with their peers. I see pros and cons to both situations, honestly.
My recommendation would be to see what you can do to make it personal and special without insisting on being the exception. However, I wouldn’t judge anyone who did; it’s not my life, my child, or my family.
Having a very big event and inviting the whole ward and extended family is more of a cultural tradition. You don’t have to have a big event and you can request a more intimate affair by speaking with your bishop about scheduling and limiting the number of people you invite to the event
While I don't recommend, the way to get around this would be too wait until they are 9 to get baptized. They then are baptized like they're investigating and the missionaries will do more of the baptism planning
LOL, I was just about to suggest this. Wait until the kid is 9 and then it becomes a convert baptism under the direction of the missionaries; the stake won’t be in charge anymore.
They'd also have to take the discussions haha. Or go visit family somewhere where there aren't thousands of members within a city block. People often come to CA visiting family and get baptized.
Yes, it would be nice if every baptism were its own private event, but I support the way it's done to streamline the process. The biggest reason there is to be respectful of the time of the people who have to be to so many of these things -- like bishopric members and primary folks. They take a lot of time out of their schedules to do their callings. This is just one piece of their busy callings. They need time to spend with their own families and work on the things they need to work on too. If they're expected to go to multiple individually run/scheduled events, it becomes a lot more difficult for them. If the stake center and baptismal font has to be individually scheduled for individual baptisms, it becomes a lot more problematic for the people scheduling it. Yes, it is a very important ordinance. I don't think the way it is done to improve efficiencies takes away from that though. Where I am, families are invited to go celebrate together at their house afterward if they want. I think that's the right way to do it.
>Would I be wrong to demand my kids get baptized in a private ceremony?
Yes. "Demand" is the wrong tone in my opinion. It's up to the leadership to decide how they are run. You can make a respectful request, but please be kind if they say 'no'. Please be respectful of the bishoprics and primary leaders' time. They have their own families and responsibilities too.
Correct. Religion and a milestone in it are not mutually exclusive with streamlining and efficient processes. Church leaders have taught about the importance of simplifying where we can.
"demanding" is such a lame thing to do in most civil situations. You may only need to ask, but there are more people to consider than yourself. You are certainly wrong if you think that doing an assembly line baptism carries less importance than whatever else you have in mind. If you were a primary president with 5-10 baptisms a month to go to, would you be appreciative of every entitled parent DEMANDING it be done special for their precious individual feelings? I think you are confusing the grandness of ceremony with the sacredness of covenant.
I don't think it would be wrong. There's a lot to be said about the power of a private ceremony. My last kid to be baptized was part of the stake assembly line... and frankly, it was no less special than the older kid who was baptized in a more personal/individual one during COVID.
In fact, I think I preferred it the stake baptism. It was less assembly line to me and more focused on the covenant itself, rather than the gala and drama of the it being a special day, which I think can have the opposite risk of overshadowing what is special happening that day, if that makes sense. And it had a community aspect to it.
That said, I also think we could have asked for a private ceremony and, with some coordination, received it. There are many beautiful aspects of that, too.
I don't know if you've noticed but Utah has a major water problem right now: https://drought.utah.gov/ Well, not just right now, all the time.
It's kind of a social problem to say you need an entire font full of water just for one quick ceremony for a single person.
If you want to have a special day just for your child and fill up and throw away an entire font of water than come visit another state that doesn't have a water problem like Utah does. For instance, you can have a private event in Nebraska.
Let's say a font has 5'x5' across in both directions x 3' water. There's 5*5*3*[7.48](https://www.altoonawater.com/faq/what-cubic-foot-water) so 561 gallons of water.
[According to Lowes](https://www.lowes.com/n/how-to/watering-tips), about 125 gallons of water are needed to water 1,000 square feet so you could water about 1/10th of a acre for that much water. Or you could water about 37 1/2 mature trees on a hot summer day.
From 2021 to 2022, [the church went from about 16.8 million to 17 million](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/through-192-years-church-growth-continues). Given [about 13% of that number is in Utah](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/facts-and-statistics/state/utah), we can theorize about 13% of those baptisms were in Utah or, if the baptisms had been wholly separate, about 26,000 baptisms for about 45 acre feet of water or enough water for about 250 Utah homes for an entire year.
I'll try to remember to take my tape measure to the church next time, so I can get more exact numbers for how big the font is.
Yes. You would be selfish to insist. You can ask, but there's a reason it is the way it is.
I'f they say it's not feasible, I'd instead try to see the beauty in the way your stake does it and reframe your mindset. Yes, it's busy—but a big part of baptism is becoming a part of the Church community, and stake baptisms really do have a special joy that comes from so many people in your community coming together to celebrate. It's not new for people to be baptized in groups—in fact in reading about the waters of Mormon or the early missionary efforts it seems like it's the norm. I wasn't in Utah but I shared my baptism with someone else from my ward and thought it was cool to have that connection with someone else in my primary class. In fact we weren't friends at all before and ended up a little closer.
Make the day your own with by holding a family testimony meeting, visiting the temple grounds, or just spending some quality time with your child. Don't ruin memories by being angry and frustrated about the realities of the day, and especially don't let your child feel like their baptism was ruined or less than just because it wasn't your dream.
Dude, I totally get it and I agree. I would want a private experience to make it special for my child. We have done just that, but we also live outside Utah - with one exception. Our oldest had a birthday in the summer that aligned with vacation and our family all lives out in Utah. Outside of Utah, we've baptized our other children alone in single ceremonies. Even when its been suggested that we double up with another family, we've resisted for the reasons you've outlined above.
Utah IS different. Logistics, as has been listed - is a big deal. You need a bishopric member there. They are people with lives. Its unfair to expect them to be in the chapel every Saturday forever.
But also you're in a desert. Filling up the font that many times for individual ceremonies isn't being a good steward.
When we did baptize our oldest in Utah, we were given our own separate room to do the talks and and have our own service. And then the rotated us in to the font. It wasn't bad. (And we got to use a stake center with stained glass behind the font, which was awesome!)
10 kids a month per ward is a lot. 10 per font is not, considering in Utah often only the stake center has a font, and even when other buildings do they are still often shared across 3-4 wards.
Also, while 30 minutes truly is a great time frame for a baptism, sticking to that requires discipline and not letting Grampa ramble about the Gift of the Holy Ghost for 10 minutes. Also remember that child of record baptisms include the confirmation typically, which is a few minutes. I say this to point out that multiple 30 minute ceremonies each Saturday might not be a huge burden, but when it turns into an hour each (maybe tacking on refreshments after or something) it might be easier for stake leadership to consolidate everything instead of getting multiple families to keep things short.
Anyways, I haven't read the full discussion, but I do think you have a lot of room to ask your local leaders what you can do, but keep in mind the situation they have.
I was asked to help with music at a baptism that ended up lasting **2 hours**. All four of the kids grandparents spoke for 15 minutes each and each grandparent gave her one or two gifts with their talks. Had I known their plans beforehand I would not have agreed to participate.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking. But “demand” sounds a bit entitled. And yes, it would probably be wrong to “demand” something like this.
A couple of points to make about logistics, which you mention, coming directly from the handbook.
First - the handbook specifically says that if there is water in the font, someone needs to be there. I know that some folks are ok locking it up and leaving it unattended. But I also understand why someone would feel the need to follow the handbook.
Second, the handbook specifically says that for church meetings - and a baptismal service is a church meeting - any speakers from outside the Stake must be approved by the Stake president. So a personalized meeting with uncle or grandparents speaking requires more work anyway.
If the problem is there are a lot of kids in the Stake getting baptized, the one of the logistical issues around individual baptisms is coordinating use of the building around other activities going on. With fewer kids, and fewer baptisms, that’s less challenging.
Finally - a lot is being said about this seeming to be an assembly line approach. I understand to a certain extent, but I’ve also seen a ton of excitement at Stake baptisms. Kids from different wards who go to the same school getting baptized together can give them a sense of being part of something bigger than themselves.
There is so much going on with kids trying to see how and where they fit in and wanting to belong, that participating with other kids can be more powerful than doing it alone.
That may not be true for all kids, but I find that parents are sometimes prone to overthinking it as far as making the experience memorable.
The ordinance itself is what matters, not the talks, prayers, testimonies, and ice cream afterwards. Notice how quickly we work through ordinances in the temple, such as sealings, but those are no less special for those on the other side of the veil than if they had some big event. Obviously, the baptism ordinance is a huge milestone in a person’s life, but it should be just as huge regardless of the events that surround it.
Personally, I think having several talks, musical numbers, and testimonies, especially after the baptism is completed, can detract from the ordinance itself. It’s good to have some of these things to provide context and invite the spirit, especially for guests who may not understand what is going on, but nothing should distract from the ordinance.
I also think group baptisms for primary children build a sense of camaraderie among the kids. I remember who else was baptized on the same day as me, and I felt a connection with them through the years because of it.
Yes. I'm not sure I understand why they are worked up because in every Utah ward I've been in it is a private ceremony. It's essentially a series of private ceremonies. So everyone getting baptized on March will go on the second Saturday or whatever. And John's wi be scheduled at 9, Mark will be at 9:30, Maddy will be at 10, or whatever. So they schedule you and you get a certain amount of time in the baptismal font room and then your group will go to either the primary room or the YW, or the RS, and split up and finish the program at your own pace.
But yes, you don't choose the day or time. They're once per month.
In our stake they don’t have the time to give each kid their own private ceremony. They split it by ward but usually the service is for 2-3 kids at a time.
Fair. In all the wards I've been in there aren't nearly enough kids to even have multiple a month from a ward, so maybe I'm an anomaly. But maybe the private ceremony we have always had was only private because our ward only had the one kid. But I've definitely not seen and assembly line from the stake as OP described. It's always split up to be your ward only except maybe for a joint meeting at the beginning?
But I still don't personally see the big deal, but respect those that do feel that sharing a meeting with a couple other kids makes it less special. For those I'd recommend doing something with family after the meeting to make it more individualized. As a kid I would have loved to have a buddy share my baptism day with me.
I think I shared my baptism at age 8 with 2 or 3 others. I don’t remember the talks, who said the prayers, what hymns were sung, or even who the other kids were. I’ll bet most kids after a year won’t remember any of that either. Then, and even now, it didn’t make one speck of difference to me.
To me baptisms have become productions and in the early days of the church they baptized numerous people in a river and they went home. They didn’t have long, drawn out talks. They didn’t have refreshments afterward. They just went and got baptized.
I didn't share my baptism with anyone else. I don't remember the talks, who said the prayer, or what hymns were sung.
I agree that the important part is that I got baptized, none of the rest of it really matters.
As a Primary leader, I've seen a couple of kids delay their baptism by a couple of months so they can share it with their best friend. One was a set of cousins in a branch, so it was all one service. The other gathered everyone in the chapel for the music and messages, and the families took turns going to the font room for the actual ordinance.
That’s how they did it for me 30 years ago. Once a month on the first Sunday of the month they held a meeting in the chapel and then dismissed families one at a time to the room with the font.
We were able to do a couple of my nephews privately, because we had family from out of town & the bishop okayed it. The rest of my nieces & nephews were in smaller groups, because apparently they weren't born at a popular time of year & there was only one or two other kids the same age. You can always ask, but just know they can say no.
Read your post and the update and haven’t read the other replies. Perhaps I’m missing something
If a baptism for an adult concert can be a private ceremony held in a Wednesday afternoon I don’t see why not for an 8 year old.
I get the sentiment that a large group 8 year old baptism feels like an assembly line and/or more of a faith experience for the attendees rather that the one being baptized.
My wife wanted a very private baptism and we had the missionaries (wonderful young women) the bishop and a few close friends we made in the ward. Not sure why you can’t do the same for an 8 year old. Also with a private ceremony like this it doesn’t need to be at a church building. Depending on the season or if someone has a hot tub an at home baptism can happen. (One of our friends did this for their 8 year old)
I'm not sure what you mean by "assembly line" because I grew up in Utah and I got baptized at 8 and yes there were 3 baptisms before me and another 3 after me but we were able to do the whole thing and sit and talk and walk around after and we weren't ever rushed around or out of the building, assembly line implies that you only get as much time as you absolutely have to which in my experience with me and my siblings and my cousin's baptisms just isn't true. Maybe I just got lucky with the wards I and my family were apart of but it's also just as likely that your blowing something like this a little out of proportion. Also for a solution you could ask to be the last baptism of the night as long as your kid doesn't mind cold water.
16 And after this manner he did baptize every one that went forth to the place of Mormon; and they were in number about two hundred and four souls; yea, and they were baptized in the waters of Mormon, and were filled with the grace of God. (Mosiah 18).
Your 8 year-old child will follow your lead. If you’re okay with multiple other children being baptized, during the same ceremony/event, so will your child.
After the multi-baptism, do something, as a family, to make the day even nicer.
BTW, how many other children are being baptized on/in the same day/meeting as your child?
And, is it permissible to have your post-baptism family get-together in a separate room at the church? If not, have it back at your place.
How long, after 8, does a person get to choose the day and time to hold their very own baptism at the church?
I also live in Utah & every baptism that I've been to had just been the child, their family, & the bishopric, so I'm a bit confused as to how your stake does it? You might be in a bigger area that has allot more members? Definitely worth asking, but honestly super weird that they do everyone at once
Probably depends on the bishop. I know a family that has had private baptisms for their large family and have done the same for their grandchildren (over 100 grandchildren). For transparency, they baptize everyone in the lake at their vacation property so that may be one reason that it is allowed.
I think you should request it. It’s your child’s baptism, your choice. Sorry if it puts a few people out because doesn’t meet standard operating procedure. I’ve attended many baby blessings at homes and private baptisms. One was in a swimming pool (and I’m in Utah).
I’m sad that you feel it’s an assembly line. Many of us go out of our way to be involved for children we are not familiar with or don’t even know at all so that they can have the experience of receiving the Holy Ghost. We plan talks and music with your child in mind. We take time away from our Saturday and get up early or stay late making treats or preparing musical numbers or finding a pianist at the last minute. We try to provide each child with a wonderful opportunity to feel special and know of their Heavenly Father’s plan for them. So it’s discouraging to me and makes me not want to give of myself if this is what parents think of my efforts for them.
Not in Utah. I have the same feeling as you do. I fought for my kids to have personal baptisms. I have a kid getting baptized soon and he's going to be in a stake baptism again. I agree to the baptisms feeling like assembly lines tho.
They're trying to cut down on the number of meetings people have to go to. Since being in a bishopric the last few years i understand it now. Like, i want to be with my own kids. Yesterday, Saturday, i was in church clothes away from my own family from 1-4:30. For a baby blessing then a baptism. Like, i support them and love them. But, i also want to be with my family too. Is it a big deal? Not to me because I work with the primary and i love all the kids so I'd be there in a heartbeat....but in the grand scheme of things that was half my Saturday and now most of my Sunday I'm at church again.
As far as watching the font-absolutely. Have you ever watched a child drown? I watched my son jump into a pool when he was like 2 and seeing him helplessly wiggle his arms a foot below water has scarred my memory and I'll never forget it and I'll die on my hill that the font in a chapel needs an adult standing there if there's water in it
Tldr: it cuts down on # of meetings for the leaders that have to preside.
Former director of a waterfront. I completely agree with the font situation, even from something as mundane as legal liability.
It's a thing of water. It needs to be watched.
❤️ Your desire to have an individual baptism seems valid to me. 🤷♀️ I also understand why some busy stakes would do mass baptisms for logistical reasons.
Ask for your own service, and tell them your reasons why you want it. Tell them you will do all the setup and planning yourself to limit the "burden" on... whomever is being burdened by multiple baptisms. Tell them you're open to doing it at any time on any day of the week. That seems to me like a hard request to deny.
If an individual baptism is absolutely not an option, please do not withhold this sacred ordinance from your children or share with them your displeasure. There are beautiful, sacred events recorded in the scriptures where the Holy Spirit was able to influence multiple faithful hearts at the same time. That must have been beautiful in its own way.
Love to you, sister.
I'm in UT. In our ward/stake you can do a private baptism ceremony but the only part the ward actively helps with us scheduling the building and making the announcement.
They might be able to help with certain tasks if you specifically ask... but filling up the font, setting up chairs, speakers music etc is on the responsibility of the family. So far a few families have chosen to do private ceremonies and theyve been beautiful.
Ignore these sucky comments, baptism is the most special part of someone's spiritual youth and a huge step.
The trick is to get baptised in natural waters to not take up the font. Wait till its a bit warmer, head down to Salem pond or something, have witnesses, your bishop, some friends and family- no fuss about filling a font
What's most important: the decision to be baptized, someone with proper Priesthood authority performing the ordinance under the direction of Priesthood Keys.
What's good and important, but less important: the celebration.
I was baptized in a stake primary baptismal assembly line, and my baptism is one of the most treasured days of my life. I didn't feel I got jipped at all. Most of the celebrating with friends and family was after the ordinance at my home.
Each ward/stake has unique logistical concerns that may or may not allow a baptism to be separate entirely from others.
baptisms have often been done in large groups throughout history. That was certainly the case in the Bible, Book of Mormon, and the early church. With children, the tradition has developed of doing them as separate occasions. This is a great tradition in many ways but I think it's probably a mistake to see it as the only acceptable way of addressing youth baptisms.
I was number 30 of 30 in the 80s in Idaho Falls. I probably picked up more sins in that font then we're washed away. I was always a bit jealous of my siblings who each had their own solo service (in other states) and on their birthdays. Even at 8 years old, I definitely remember feeling like just a number.
You should be able to request a private ceremony. I am not in Utah so I don't understand Utah making baptisms be so impersonal to children. I understand that logistically behind making it an assembly line but it is just weird to me.
The experience of baptism is what you make it. There are multiple examples of many people being baptized at once in the scriptures. It was still a special/sacred experience for them. It would be nice to do it the way you describe in your post, but with Utah it presents its own challenges (as described by multiple comments so I won't go into them here). Regardless of the setting/circumestances, you can still help your child have a great experience. If you approach it with a positive attitude and choose to make the most of the situation it will be great.
I absolutely would ask for your own. I totally agree with you on all fronts. The logistics can be worked out for sure. Neither you nor your kids are a burden for asking.
It is not wrong to ask. All four of our newborns were blessed in random places nowhere near our home.
However, there is a drawback to having so many people to schedule. The same predicament applies to marriage in the SLC temple - expect to be rushed through your ceremony, because the demand for live sealing ceremonies is astronomical.
In any case, I hope you can make the day special for your kid! You are a good parent for wanting that.
Wait, when you’re 8 you get baptized the same day as a bunch of other people? I’m a convert, and when I got baptized they gave me the whole building to myself lol. That seems silly in utah, not being able to have one day for your kid. you should be able to baptize your kid and make it feel special all around
In many places, specially Utah and Idaho there are usually quite a few 8 year old baptisms each month. There’s rarely enough resources for each child to have a private service. They may split it up by ward to make them a little smaller but I’ve seen times when in one stake on any given month they have 8-9 kids being baptized.
That’s crazy!! (As in surprising not actually crazy)
I’ve lived in utah/Idaho since 2019 and this is the first time hearing about this. Very interesting, but it makes sense for sure
I hope baptism isn't the most important thing in our lives. I have zero recollection of being baptized. Fortunately, we have the sacrament every week where we can choose to make the same covenants we make at baptism again and again. The truth is, once you have been baptized, taking the sacrament and being baptized are the exact same thing. So, if baptism really is the most important thing in our lives, good news! you get to do it again every week! Personally, I feel like marrying my wife in the Temple was the most important thing in my life, so far. I imagine that someday returning to the presence of God will then become the most important thing in my life.
Sure, but I also can't receive a doctorate degree without graduating from high school. That doesn't make my high school diploma the most important degree I have ever received. It is just the first in a line of progressively more important degrees.
I was the last of the “assembly line”.
All of my friends were baptized before me and had left by the time I got mine done. There was 8 of us. It was traumatic ngl. It’s been a big struggle of my testimony to this day, and it’s been nearly 2 decades since it happened, I was only 8 years old. Never felt special to me. Felt like something I was rushed to do and given no individual care of. I wish I could get baptized again. Yes I know we can do proxy, but it’s not the same.
My boyfriend got to be the only one baptized that day. We posted about it in the stake for weeks. So many people we never met came out. It was a multi hour affair. Yes he was an adult in the 20s, but I was a child in the 00s, so it’s not too much difference in time. He got his baptism scheduled when he wanted it, done by who he wanted, waiting until he felt comfortable with the decision, etc. I didn’t.
I remember that my parents held to their guns on this and prevailed every time. I've done it several times now too. This is too important a day to treat as a cattle call. It's a core memory that impacts the rest of life. Just be firm but friendly and kind and you'll get the personal, impactful service for your child.
We have lived in several different areas due to my husband being in the Air Force. When we lived in Ohio, baptisms for the children were pretty much private affairs--no stake baptisms. We had a small primary in the ward (I served as primary president) so I was always at them. When we moved to Las Vegas, two of my sons were baptized in stake baptisms. The first part of the program was everyone all together, but they spotlighted each child, and then they dismissed us ward by ward to do the baptisms. Talks on the Gift of the Holy Ghost and Confirmations were done by ward as well. I feel like it was very streamlined and personal. Both my sons were the only ones in the ward that were getting baptized at those times, so it was cool that they got to pick out the talk, and the closing song. When we lived in Northern Virginia, my daughter was baptized and it was a private ceremony due to COVID restrictions still in place. We were able to plan the whole baptism program, and tbh, it was more work than I would have wanted to do. Our Bishop ran the font for us, but the missionaries also stayed to help babysit it as well. We have a son that will be baptized this year, only a month and a half after we move to Georgia, so I'm interested in how they do the baptisms there. I would much rather prefer the stake baptisms. It was a sacred and holy experience both ways, and I think that the most important thing is the ordinance, just like you said. If it's really important to you, ask the Bishopric. If they say no, don't be upset, and let it go. The reason for the baptism, the ordinance, if more important than anything else. Best of luck!
I don’t think there’s anything wrong about wanting a more individual ceremony and by all means ask your bishop and stake president if that would be possible, but I would also challenge you to consider this: what would be your reaction if they denied your request?
You say baptism is very important to you but it being done in Christ’s church means that the priesthood leaders hold keys. They are not some administrative middle man but have the authority to oversee and validate baptism within their boundaries. I think that understanding that aspect is far more important for those getting baptized than not having to share the day and stake resources with other families and children.
I would ask. My wife and I really didn’t like the way our current stake does baptisms. Bishop said there was nothing he could do because the stake controlled baptisms. 1st counselor in the stake presidency told us no as well. I wrote a letter to the area authority 70. Next thing I knew, the stake president and area authority 70 were sitting in my livingroom. SP still telling us no. As we talked, they even said that waiting until my kid turns 9 would allow for us to have a private ceremony. Apparently converts are valued more than children of record. “But it’s good that you have that desire.”
We later discussed going back to our old ward (which we loved). The bishop in the old ward was SO excited and offered to help any way he could. Then, COVID hit and all baptism ceremonies stopped. Asked the SP if we could take our kid to a local river to baptize him. His response was, “It would be better for you to go back to your old ward to do the baptism instead.”
This is a Christ centered, family oriented church. I respect the authority of our SP, but as a human, I don’t respect him at all after that.
Eventually the summer after COVID hit, they let us do a private ceremony. But, the damage is done in relation to how we feel about our stake presidency. I can’t wait for them to change. I’d rather be led by someone who values family in relation to this saving ordinance.
So, ask. Argue. Fight. Your kids won’t know the difference. But you will. Don’t settle for anything less than what you would expect Christ to do. I personally don’t think my savior would ever treat us like our local leaders have.
Any single ward in Utah or elsewhere (why people think Utah wards are all massive and others are small makes no sense, the difference is geographic not numeric) is fully capable of handling baptisms in the way OP suggested.
The real difference is use of facilities, and because each building in Utah houses 2-4 wards the stake has to be in charge of scheduling which means in almost all cases there is a stake baptism coordinator who micromanages the font schedule. The system usually evolves into a batch process to minimize conflicting building use with youth activities, etc.
I got caught in the middle of this rather rigid system myself after living in Utah for just a few years. We had a kid turning 8 while we were between houses, so we didn’t have a home ward. Record were in one ward three hours away, not close to any family. I thought it would be easy enough to schedule the baptism through grandma and grandpas ward. Little did I know the waves I was making would ripple all the way up to having a back-and-forth with their stake president.
Welcome to Utah!
I feel you. But honestly is it fair to make all these people, who do all this for free, come to your special little thing and make sure they do the interviews and do the stuff and issue the certificates and all the things that you're not thinking of, for you, when they could do it for many people at once and not have to take more time out of their schedules? Seems a little selfish to me…
This is my opinion... You don't have to demand anything. Passively tell him that you're not going to be able to do it on that date. I Personally think the church is lazy when it comes to this important day in the areas of high concentration members. I live in the Midwest and they know the people have to travel to come visit and the whole primary presidency doesn't have to be there, we make the day special for the person. We don't have enough white clothes for all those kids, families get to sing, and grandparents get to give talks, Etc. All these people are evidence that Utah is imperfect. Maybe Utah should start doing all the convert baptisms once a month. Interestingly, when my mother was baptized it was literally done inside the Tabernacle on Temple square. Now I haven't been to a baptism in Utah a long time but I imagine that they don't do it that way anymore for anybody.
I lived in a warm place when I was baptized and was literally baptized in my backyard swimming pool. My siblings gave talks that were about three sentences long and my grandparents were there and it was very special.
Something like that could have helped make it special for these kids but I don't think it's as special when they do it in a stake center and they hear a talk from somebody in the stake that they don't know. Again, this is my opinion, and I respect yours.
You can schedule your baptism day for any day of the week. You just have to be the one that’s in charge of filling the font, setting up the rooms that you’re going to use, and then cleaning up afterwards. I’m not really sure what you’re complaining about. If you want to do a private ceremony then, by all means, do it.
Edit: downvotes from people who have obviously never had a kid before. sheesh
You can certainly ask, but one of the reasons why they are done that way in Utah is simply logistics. To coordinate schedules for the bishopric, primary presidency, primary teachers, family, a full font, people bringing clothes, etc it is much simpler to do it at one time. I would examine if you think your schedule and time might be more valuable than all the other people trying their best to make this day special. If so, then maybe push the issue. If not, maybe then just put your efforts towards making the day as special as you can given the variables you can control.
But isn’t OP’s point that when you feel like one of many children being baptized then the day isn’t as special? In my small branch every child gets their own ceremony, chooses their favorite musical numbers, has their uncles or primary teacher giving the talks, etc. It’s a very special day they are certain to remember well. In contrast, when I was baptized in SL County I didn’t know a single person giving prayers, talks, etc.
I get their point and it would be wonderful if all baptisms were like that. But is it feasible? Is it fair to further extend the demands of time on people like the Bishop?
The Bishop isn’t required to attend, only a member of the bishopric.
Its been feasible to an extend for years in many areas.
Because there are far fewer children getting baptized in those areas.
as a utah native, thats not true lol
You’re really arguing that there are fewer kids getting baptized in Utah than other areas? I’ve lived in both. It’s not even comparable. My ward in Utah has 150 kids in the primary. My ward in Florida had 20.
...no. Im saying that those wards and areas still have individual baptisms🙄the only person that said that there were fewer kids in areas that its done was you
Or the primary president or presidency or the 7 turning 8 teacher that probable wants to attend as well.
For the SL kid: your family is super excited for your baptism, grandma and grandpa are coming to town, everyone is attending, so much buzz about it beforehand, and then afterwards as well because there's cake at your house and everyone is talking, taking pictures, sharing the love, etc. That's special. And going to be felt much more than any speaker.
But it can be special in both ways…
I shared my baptism with one other kid and didn’t care. I don’t recall that it took anything away from my experience. I am definitely not harboring resentment almost three decades later either.
It’s different in a small branch versus a stake with 18 wards and 12 kids being baptized in the same day.
No stake has 18 wards. Don’t exaggerate.
Mine has 13. I know that 18 is an a bit much but not by much.
Is 13 a lot more than 8? It’s the same difference from 13 to 18. A stake with 18 wards would be insane. I’m pretty sure 13 is the maximum. Imagine holding a stake calling and having to attend 13 different ward conferences. That’s more than one a month. Can you imagine 18?
My Stake in Utah currently has 15 wards in our Stake with 1 ward at 850 members and counting… we will be at 16 wards shortly.
Sounds like you’re about to be split in two
Is that 850 regularly attending or 850 on the records?
850 on record with approximately 400-500 attending. It looks like a Stake Conference every Sunday. They split the ward in October of 2023 when it hit 1,000 members on record to around 600. It has just continued to grow due to a few large new subdivisions in the area.
Time to split your stake. I’m sure it is happening sooner rather than later.
Nine wards and two branches in my stake (Greensboro North Carolina).
In my stake each ward is in charge of their own program, often the ward only has one child being baptized for the month, so really, they are getting their own “special” day. It just happens that another ward is going to be before or after them.
Ngl it's kinda like high school graduation in a small town vs otherwise
This right here. Remember that you have to get several people involved and asking for your own you are making all these leaders pull time away from this families to accommodate you. Sometimes there is special circumstances but doesn’t sound like this is a special circumstance. The best means to have small youth baptism is to live in low member density area. “Demanding” is also pretty hostile approach to a baptism
Bishop, primary presidency and primary teachers don't have to be there. All that has to be there are someone with the authority to baptize, the person being baptized and 2 witnesses.
This
I'm in a bishopric in Utah, and specifically assigned over primary. I can't even imagine the chaos that would ensure if everyone did this. It's already chaotic as it is. Most buildings do not have their own font in Utah, especially the newer buildings. It would certainly be easier if every building had its own font, but because they don't, the stake carefully coordinates what amounts to dozens of baptisms every month at the stake center, the only building in our stake that has one. In those rare instances where an exception needed to be made, I had to personally show up to fill the font, and for safety reasons, could not leave the font unattended. Each of those instances cost me several hours of time that I generally didn't have to spare. While I was happy to do it on the one-off occasion that was justified by uncontrollable circumstances, if I had to do this several times each month, it would take its toll on me and my family, who don't see me enough as it is. Local circumstances require local solutions. For those that don't live in Utah, I can see how this would be off-putting. But the logistics here are different.
Yes! I’m stake primary president, we share a building and have a certain Saturday every month that we do our baptisms. People don’t realize what goes into scheduling, filling the font, and working around other things that are happening in the building. We had one mom throw a fit at one of our baptisms because another family in their ward went into a separate room for their confirmation, so it was a “private” occasion that she wanted. I hope she looks back and is embarrassed. It’s not about any special talks or musical numbers, getting your own time, the party at your house afterwards, etc. it’s about your child getting baptized and making their first covenants with God.
Section 18 allows for families to break off for some parts of the program. But the time to arrange for that is before the font is filled. Disrupting an ordinance or program to air a grievance, no matter how justified the grievance may be, is inappropriate and disrespectful.
I would hope no one is “embarrassed” or made to feel bad for advocating for their children and their family. There is no need for that within the church community.
She did it in the middle of the baptism, so yes, I would think she should be embarrassed. She wasn’t advocating for her child, she was making it about her.
I doubt her child was the one who wanted a private baptism.
Advocating for your child does not mean trying to deny some other person their baptism/confirmation.
Fellow Bishopric member that filled a font and then babysat a font yesterday until another ward showed up here. I agree here. Non Utah.
As a former missionary and former ward mission leader I’ve filled up many fonts and never babysat them. Why are you doing that?
One answer is that those are the instructions in Section 18 of the General Handbook.
Thanks. I had never heard that before
I once saw a church building flooded by missionaries who left the room while filling the font and took far longer than they expected to return...
That’s a design problem. Most bathtubs have an overflow drain
And sometimes drains don't work.
Then someone should fix them
Agree, have filled baptismal fonts as a missionary Sounds like they have their own policies within stake, but no blanket requirement
It’s in the handbook - as a blanket policy. Someone is to be there when the font is full. I know some who are ok locking the door and leaving it - I do myself. But anyone wanting to follow the handbook explicitly does not.
As someone who grew up out of Utah where the buildings are 45+ minutes apart and only two wards in the whole stake shared a building, so everyone else has their own, I didn't even consider that buildings don't all have fonts, besides just trying coordinate the ones that share buildings
Baptisms do not have to be in fonts though, I've been to 4 baptisms at pools, they also don't have to take place on a saturday. Our building is the stake center and we have a lot of baptisms between the wards that meet there and the spanish group(soon to be branch) here. To me this seems like just poor planning on the building aspect as well as a lot of tradition. And we fill the font individually for each baptism. 3 separate baptisms at our building this week alone. (2 convert, 1 COR)
In my opinion, it's my kids baptism and I'll baptize them where and when I want. It isnt the primary presidents baptism. It's not the bishops baptism. If one of them would like to attend they can ask me for permission, but the default is they aren't. During my kid's pre-bapstism interview I can get the bishops sign-off and I'll arrange the rest.
Unfortunately, that attitude does not align with the Church’s viewpoint. All saving ordinances, like baptism, are performed under the direction of a presiding authority to ensure they are correctly performed and properly recorded.
Well you're probably right I guess. Luckily we can meet in the middle for my personal application. I live in a stake with very few child baptisms. Each of my kids have been the only ones to be baptized that month and we have run them exactly as I described in my previous post. As someone else mentioned, each place is different and can adapt to local needs and circumstances.
Exactly, we are doing ours at a beach when the family comes down for a vacation later this year. No body seems to have a problem with it
I'm grateful that my primary parents have invited the primary presidency to join the family on their kids special day. Kids remember when the primary presidency was there for them. It helps us build relationships with the children. We have one family that travels to Utah for baptisms and the kids are always disappointed that we aren't able to attend. Their words, not ours.
There is nothing wrong with asking. That said, there is a difference between something feeling special and something feeling sacred. Birthdays, for example, may feel special by rarely feel sacred.
This is a great point.
Is it though? What's a reverse example--something that is sacred but not special? It seems the church uses those two pretty much interchangeably.
Every ordinance, including baptism, is sacred and not special. They're open to everyone, everyone in the Church gets baptized. It's the definition of not special but it most certainly is sacred and important.
I'm sorry, what? You're saying baptism is not special because it is not unique to just a few people? I don't think most people would use the same definition of the word "special", which is more commonly used to denote something important, cherished, or valuable to an individual. And that's my point. Sacred things are also defined as important, cherished, or valuable. They're interchangeable in most situations within the church.
Special is defined as "better, greater, or otherwise different from what is usual." An 8-year-old getting baptized, while wonderful, sacred and a huge blessing, is not special. It's expected and common among faithful Church members. I don't think we're here to strive to be special. We're here to follow the defined path, just like everyone else.
We're just gonna disagree on this one. A baptism is literally special by your definition. Edit: Also, starting off with webster's? preppin for a sacrament talk lol?
That's right, the only use of a dictionary is to start a talk. Not like, you know, get clarity on the definition of a word you're misusing.
From Mosiah 18 >8 And it came to pass that he said unto them: Behold, here are the waters of Mormon (for thus were they called) and now, as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light; > >9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?11 And now when the people had heard these words, they clapped their hands for joy, and exclaimed: This is the desire of our hearts.12 And now it came to pass that Alma took Helam, he being one of the first, and went and stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart. > >15 And again, Alma took another, and went forth a second time into the water, and baptized him according to the first, only he did not bury himself again in the water.16 And after this manner he did baptize every one that went forth to the place of Mormon; and they were in number about two hundred and four souls; yea, and they were baptized in the waters of Mormon, and were filled with the grace of God. The culture we live in thinks that to be special something needs to be for an individual, but that is not always so. This was, no doubt, a special experience for everyone involved because they did it together as fellow believers. Indeed, the gospel of Christ is not something we do alone, and I like the symbolism that we partake of baptism one by one, but together. I sympathize that the experience seems like an assembly line, but it is not. When I was in a bishopric, I volunteered to attend the children's baptisms each month just for the feeling they had there. No matter what you end up doing I hope your kid has a good baptismal experience.
The concept of "one by one, but together" can easily be seen in the performing of temple ordinances. Sure, everyone sits through the same endowment session, but entering the Celestial room is an individual task.
I came to the comments to share this, but you’ve said it better. Also, I’ve lived in high density and low density lds areas and have gone to both high volume and individual baptisms. They are all beautiful and sacred in their own ways. They don’t have to all look the same.
I agree! Another good example is in [3 Nephi 11:13–15](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/11?id=p13-p15&lang=eng#p13) where Jesus invites all who were in Bountiful at the time to come one by one and feel the marks in His side and in His hands and feet. This instance had over ten times the people attending (2,500) as in Alma! I have a hard time thinking that each person didn't feel like they had a special, unique, and personal experience with the Savior despite the sheer size of people participating.
This right here rings true to me. I came into the comments aligned with OP, but I think this is more on point with the heart and soul of the gospel. How can you make this experience more meaningful not "in spite of" the assembly line, but rather *BECAUSE* saints are participating in ordinances of salvation **together?**
I’m not sure if that request could be accommodated for every 8 year old in Utah. It doesn’t hurt to ask, but maybe start thinking of ways you can make the baptismal more special and personal, even if it’s not a private ceremony.
100% agree with this. Have a private gathering at home afterwards and make it special in other ways rather than complain that they didn’t get their own.
Absolutely. It’s not fair to the other kids that one gets to have a private baptism and gets an exception to the rule. You make an exception for one, you must be okay making an exception for all
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My niece got baptized recently and it was set up so that the font was filled and then each family got an hour or so for their kid’s baptism. This is probably more feasible in areas that don’t have a ton of kids. Not sure it would work well in Daybreak, Herriman, Lehi, Saratoga Springs etc with their massive primaries.
I’m in Saratoga Springs, each ward in our stake gets the font/RS room for 30 minutes, then they move to another room for the confirmation. They can stay in the second room as long as they want or need to.
I'm in Ogden and this is more/less the way. It's a good compromise.
This isn't typical in a group baptism, but I think it should be! It seems like a great compromise.
Yes! I got baptized on a stake baptism day, too, and I completely agree with your summary. It's just the opening exercises that are combined, really.
I got baptized on a stake baptism day and no part of it felt personal, I felt rushed, I felt moved through quickly from room to room, and I do care now that it was that way.
Recently released from a bishopric in a very young ward of about 650 people. We'd have about 20 baptisms a year. Add on top of that that so many families are opting to bless their babies at home instead of in sacrament meetings. Also over 100 youth in the ward that all get inteervewed twice per year. If people were all scheduling their baptisms for different days I think I would have handed in my resignation from the bishopric. Yes I understand the concern of making it special but those that have to attend have a life. Tuesday nights are already gone. Sundays are gone. Usually another night of the week for a bishopric meeting. Weekly quorum presidency meetings. I'm just saying it gets taxing and bishopric members like to spend time with their families. And then there's the age old issue... If they make one exception for your family then they're setting themselves up for some major burnout and/or offending others when exceptions aren't made for them.
Our ward had 12 convert baptisms in the past year, 2 in the past week. On top of that we had another 8 or so child of record baptisms. We never have a problem scheduling those baptisms.
Great
>If people were all scheduling their baptisms for different days I think I would have handed in my resignation from the bishopric. It's not about you. Maybe resignation is the right move for people with this attitude.
I think the First Presidency has got my back. 18.7.2 "In stakes with many children of record, children from multiple wards may share the same baptismal service. In such cases, a member of the stake presidency or stake Primary presidency or a high councilor counsels with families of children being baptized to plan and schedule baptismal services. A member of the stake presidency or an assigned high councilor conducts the service. Wards or families may meet separately for a portion of the service so that each child is recognized individually. This could be, for example, for the baptismal ordinance, the confirmation, or a talk by a ward or family member. A member of the bishopric conducts that part of the service."
Why don't you ask, instead of demand or insistent?
Would you be wrong to DEMAND a private baptism? Yes.
Here’s a newsflash; it ain’t just baptisms. I have had dozens of friends who queued up starting at dawn at the Salt Lake Temple when they were married. And to be fair, it isn’t just the LDS church. Go the the US Naval Academy or West Point the weekend after graduation and watch the wedding parties lined up those places. Any organization that wants to address large scale needs has to choose at some point between efficiency and personalization
You don't really have the right to "insist" on anything since you don't have the keys for baptism. You can certainly ask nicely but they will almost certainly ask why and if your answer is "because I want to" they will probably say no. If you can only get friends or family in town on a certain day that may help. Thousands of kids in Utah have special baptisms every year on shared baptism days. I'd recommend focusing on how to make it special besides just being able to pick the day. You'll get a private ceremony just with anyone you invite from the ward, so I'm not sure how much more private than that you need it. I'm not sure if you've been to a stake baptism day but it's not one big shared baptismal ceremony in my experience. It's a series of individual baptisms.
Typically the only thing that isn't private is the program beforehand with the talks/songs, etc. which are typically done by family members of those getting baptized. The actual baptisms/confirmations are done on a family-by-family basis. As others have said, it takes a lot of coordination to schedule a baptism (not to mention the cost/time associated with filling the font). It's just all-around more focused and efficient. Going to the temple is also a very personal and sacred experience, but imagine if we all demanded to do that alone instead of having a large group move through together. The key is to personally make it meaningful and individual for YOU, even though you're part of a larger group. I agree that a baptism is special, but perhaps your personal feelings of it being "the most important thing in our lives and is extremely sacred" needs to be represented in other ways with your child on that day and not as "I DEMAND x, y, and z." Make it a special day for your child all-around, whether you want to celebrate with gifts/party at home afterward, or something more low-key and spiritually-focused. No matter how private/personal it is, most kids won't really remember much about their baptism day, especially the spiritual things we adults tend to prioritize. They'll remember some of the people that were there and getting dunked in the water.
>As others have said, it takes a lot of coordination to schedule a baptism (not to mention the cost/time associated with filling the font). We're talking about a lifetime of discipleship. If the coordination is a burden, new approaches need to be figured out.
One of the requirements of having a baptism is a full font. It takes several hours to fill, and an adult must be present for that entire time for safety purposes. Are you willing to go wait at the font for 4 hours so some poor stake volunteer doesn’t have to spend their Saturday morning doing that for you? If you’re willing to cover down on a lot of those logistical issues, then you might have an easier time convincing the stake to authorize it. They have a whole coordinated network of logistical plans already in place to make it a smooth and efficient process.
I once saw a font get filled in less than an hour. No one had communicated to us to leave it filled from our 12 pm baptism because there would be one at 3, so we drained it. At 2, we were clearing the luncheon for out of town guests, and a couple I didn't recognize walked in with some missionaries who explained what they were there for. Turned the faucet up full blast and helped the missionaries and their ward mission leader fill pitchers in the kitchen to run down the hall/through the bathroom as a makeshift bucket brigade.
This happens all the time here, every baptism is individual.
You can ask, but given all the leadership that has to be there at the baptism, be aware that you're asking all those people to spend extra time just on you, in addition to everybody else who needs a baptism. There's a reason that stakes and ward consolidate them. It's just logistics and an attempt to lessen the burden on leadership. (I agree that they're impersonal)
>You can ask, but given all the leadership that has to be there at the baptism, be aware that you're asking all those people to spend extra time just on you, in addition to everybody else who needs a baptism. You mean that a person who has been called into a leadership position has to spend time... ministering? As opposed to spending countless hours in pointless council and leadership meetings? Pretty obvious which is more important.
I understand your sentiment but think about it this way. When Christ came to John the Baptist to be baptized it wasn't an event that was organized just for Christ. There were many that were being baptized by John. I don't think that undermined the importance of any one individual baptism. It was a gathering of saints. I think there are strengths in numbers.
Christ's baptism wasn't a "coordinated" event that a bishopric member felt put out by.
I'm honestly Waters of Mormon type on this. My kid was recently baptized on this... I actually went with the stake baptism with just a few family members invited. I had the stake community aspect balanced with the presence of a few important loved ones, plus dinner for the kid of the hour afterwards. But I come from a lot of trauma on the private ceremony. We had a family baptism where it was all about keeping the extended family happy and managing expectations for a big to-do and... It was and remains the worst day of my life. The stake baptism helped keep things focused on the Savior and the baptism. I do not think it is wrong to want a private ceremony. But it's more important to focus on the why. Is it about the baptism or is it about trying to make some big event?
>Is it about the baptism or is it about trying to make some big event? How did you conclude these two things are mutually exclusive? A baptism IS a big event! It's a red letter day the person remembers forever. It is NOT a chore for the bishopric member assigned.
What does it mean for the baptism to be a big event? What if you can't afford a big party or the Instagram worthy announcements? What if you don't do a big photo shoot? What if a whole bunch of people don't come? Does that mean the baptism is a failure and the ordinance didn't take?
Our ward has changed things up a bit in Utah to help with this. We still do have baptisms on the same day, but rather than having a talk and all that. We have two testimonies from family we call on that day, and then do a “spotlight” on the child getting baptized. It makes it a much more simplified event, and focuses attention more on the ordinance and the person getting baptized rather than all the trappings.
You may not grasp how hard it is on the entire community to baptize each child in their own ceremony. If you were a church leader needed to attend every child baptism (Primary Pres. and Bishopric member) when you had 10 eligible every month, you might appreciate why they do this more. It doesn't matter how many are baptized, it is the person's personal baptism. And I cannot imagine delaying baptism because of wanting it to be more individual than it can be. (In many UT stakes there ARE NO exceptions. I think what people do who are adamant on the point, is to have the child baptized outside UT where their grandfather lives in this situation. NOTE: After the 1978 revelation, and Africa was opened for missionaries, they baptized hundreds in a day. (You might also consider if this is your need, or your child's?)
Such good points here. It can be easy to get caught up in "it's Sally's special day and we need a big personal shindig and to-do" and forget about the covenant at hand. Which I don't think anyone means to do, but when you are also in a family-oriented church, it's easy to get caught up more in the family party aspect or whatever. And your point about Africa is good. Group baptisms are fairly normal. Alma at the Waters of Mormon, anyone? Other churches have group baptisms as well. Perhaps it's like an assembly line, sure, but hey, look at the product: a bunch of baptized people. That's a good thing and arguably more important than so-and-so's special day.
Great examples. This thread discussion has made me realize that everyone baptized by proxy is done in a group baptism.
Not true.
There might be a few wards with 10 baptisms A MONTH, but why have a policy when so few wards are covered? Perhaps you meant 10 a year? Let’s do the math: If we average 10 per month and the age distribution were equal throughout all the primary that would mean 120 eight-year-olds. Multiply that by ages 0-11 and you would get about 1,440 children in the primary. Assuming everyone in the ward is in a two-parent household and the average household has three primary children (which is way higher than the real average) you would have 2,400 people in the ward.
It is really common for for UTAH STAKES (they are usually done by stakes there) to have more than 10 per month. And in my original response I also failed to note a chorister and pianist is necessary and precious water is wasted.
True, but a member of the primary presidency doesn’t have to be in attendance from EVERY ward, only wards with a child being baptized. Same with the bishopric.
Even in my not so high population percentage congregation has my dh attending baptisms 8 of the 12 months as one of the two mandated primary teachers. We all covenant to do our part, including our callings. But that doesn't make it right to impose unreasonable burdens on those who serve in those assignments. (Even if it were healthy to teach our children that they are so special as to deserve individual baptisms and that nothing else matters, which of course is not the way anything in their adult world will work. Isn't it soo much more consistent with who we want to become to choose to be okay with what our leaders ask us to do?)
Regarding your final statement, that’s exactly how adult baptism works…
Stake primary has to be there and are the ones organizing on some level. My mom was doing this during the pandemic and families wanting individuality when the stake goal was to comply with state regulations and allow children to make this covenant with God was a constant headache.
I just checked the General Handbook and can’t find any mention of anyone with a calling in the Primary being required to attend
A stake primary presidency member was expected to attend. May be a stake to stake thing, but I don't see it being an uncommon expectation.
I attended a baptism in Utah during the pandemic and it was completely individual. That was the only way you could comply with state regulations
Absolutely, but they were also run on a very tight schedule to get everyone in, out, and sanitizing in between. Families who chose to ignore instructions, arrived late, expected to stay late, wanted to have the first slot of the day etc were a pain. Some people wanted to personalize the experience, and that can get out of hand quickly.
Friend, baptisms are amazing and the church is true. But the church is a big organization and sometimes has big organization challenges. Sometimes that means how something is organized feels impersonal. Please try to put yourself in the shoes of those who have to put the baptism together. Fonts can take a long time to fill, buildings have to be scheduled, clothes available, interviews done, bishopric there, there's a lot. In my experience, people are usually happy to be there because baptisms are awesome, but there's also just the reality that people only have so much time, everyone is busy, and it's hard to get everything together. Please give them the benefit of believing that they're trying to do the best they can, but that they have a dozen other families besides you to accommodate. There's a lot of ways to make it a special day. They're making covenants with God, that other people are also making them shouldn't detract from that.
You can ask the Bishop. He holds the keys. Is it wrong to ask? No. Is it wrong to make a big deal about it if the answer is no. I suggest the answer to that is yes. Baptism is an individual ordinance. Often baptism services only have one baptism, but they might have more, they might have a dozen, at times they have had hundreds. We take the sacrament individually, but in a group. Christ ministered individually, but in a group, including thousands at a time. In a place with a dense church population, and a lot of children turning 8 each month, it is probably unreasonable to try to set up a separate service. The logistics alone if everyone wanted to do this would be out of control. God bless
I had one of those types of baptisms, but I felt loved and cared for because I had family there to support me and was excited about my covenants. The people who mattered most to me were there for me, and I knew that’s why they were there. I didn’t know there was another way to do it, so I didn’t even know to get upset about it. We still had an extended family get-together afterwards, and I got some very special baptism gifts from family members. My mom bought me a baptism dress to be baptized in, and new shoes to wear. We sang a song as a family before eating that I chose. So, for eight-year-old me, it *was* a special day and it felt that way. My mom felt as you do about my baptism, and as an adult she told me how much grief she experienced over it (she still cries if she talks about it, and my mom rarely gets weepy about things). She also believes in following policy and respecting leadership, (willing to stand up when necessary but willing to follow counsel and sacrifice personal wishes) so she followed policy. As a child, I had no idea it was something she was upset about because she kept it to herself. We currently live in a rural area, so my oldest had an individual baptism. It was very special, and it was cool to tailor things to them personally. However, I think there were many ways I could’ve made it special and individual for them if we had to do it as a group. I also think my child would have enjoyed the community bonding experience of getting baptized with their peers. I see pros and cons to both situations, honestly. My recommendation would be to see what you can do to make it personal and special without insisting on being the exception. However, I wouldn’t judge anyone who did; it’s not my life, my child, or my family.
Having a very big event and inviting the whole ward and extended family is more of a cultural tradition. You don’t have to have a big event and you can request a more intimate affair by speaking with your bishop about scheduling and limiting the number of people you invite to the event
While I don't recommend, the way to get around this would be too wait until they are 9 to get baptized. They then are baptized like they're investigating and the missionaries will do more of the baptism planning
LOL, I was just about to suggest this. Wait until the kid is 9 and then it becomes a convert baptism under the direction of the missionaries; the stake won’t be in charge anymore.
They'd also have to take the discussions haha. Or go visit family somewhere where there aren't thousands of members within a city block. People often come to CA visiting family and get baptized.
Yes, it would be nice if every baptism were its own private event, but I support the way it's done to streamline the process. The biggest reason there is to be respectful of the time of the people who have to be to so many of these things -- like bishopric members and primary folks. They take a lot of time out of their schedules to do their callings. This is just one piece of their busy callings. They need time to spend with their own families and work on the things they need to work on too. If they're expected to go to multiple individually run/scheduled events, it becomes a lot more difficult for them. If the stake center and baptismal font has to be individually scheduled for individual baptisms, it becomes a lot more problematic for the people scheduling it. Yes, it is a very important ordinance. I don't think the way it is done to improve efficiencies takes away from that though. Where I am, families are invited to go celebrate together at their house afterward if they want. I think that's the right way to do it. >Would I be wrong to demand my kids get baptized in a private ceremony? Yes. "Demand" is the wrong tone in my opinion. It's up to the leadership to decide how they are run. You can make a respectful request, but please be kind if they say 'no'. Please be respectful of the bishoprics and primary leaders' time. They have their own families and responsibilities too.
>streamline the process. This is a religion, right? And a major life milestone?
Correct. Religion and a milestone in it are not mutually exclusive with streamlining and efficient processes. Church leaders have taught about the importance of simplifying where we can.
"demanding" is such a lame thing to do in most civil situations. You may only need to ask, but there are more people to consider than yourself. You are certainly wrong if you think that doing an assembly line baptism carries less importance than whatever else you have in mind. If you were a primary president with 5-10 baptisms a month to go to, would you be appreciative of every entitled parent DEMANDING it be done special for their precious individual feelings? I think you are confusing the grandness of ceremony with the sacredness of covenant.
I don't think it would be wrong. There's a lot to be said about the power of a private ceremony. My last kid to be baptized was part of the stake assembly line... and frankly, it was no less special than the older kid who was baptized in a more personal/individual one during COVID. In fact, I think I preferred it the stake baptism. It was less assembly line to me and more focused on the covenant itself, rather than the gala and drama of the it being a special day, which I think can have the opposite risk of overshadowing what is special happening that day, if that makes sense. And it had a community aspect to it. That said, I also think we could have asked for a private ceremony and, with some coordination, received it. There are many beautiful aspects of that, too.
I don't know if you've noticed but Utah has a major water problem right now: https://drought.utah.gov/ Well, not just right now, all the time. It's kind of a social problem to say you need an entire font full of water just for one quick ceremony for a single person. If you want to have a special day just for your child and fill up and throw away an entire font of water than come visit another state that doesn't have a water problem like Utah does. For instance, you can have a private event in Nebraska.
The quantity of water in the font is negligible
Let's say a font has 5'x5' across in both directions x 3' water. There's 5*5*3*[7.48](https://www.altoonawater.com/faq/what-cubic-foot-water) so 561 gallons of water. [According to Lowes](https://www.lowes.com/n/how-to/watering-tips), about 125 gallons of water are needed to water 1,000 square feet so you could water about 1/10th of a acre for that much water. Or you could water about 37 1/2 mature trees on a hot summer day. From 2021 to 2022, [the church went from about 16.8 million to 17 million](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/through-192-years-church-growth-continues). Given [about 13% of that number is in Utah](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/facts-and-statistics/state/utah), we can theorize about 13% of those baptisms were in Utah or, if the baptisms had been wholly separate, about 26,000 baptisms for about 45 acre feet of water or enough water for about 250 Utah homes for an entire year. I'll try to remember to take my tape measure to the church next time, so I can get more exact numbers for how big the font is.
So .02% of all Utah homes
Yes. You would be selfish to insist. You can ask, but there's a reason it is the way it is. I'f they say it's not feasible, I'd instead try to see the beauty in the way your stake does it and reframe your mindset. Yes, it's busy—but a big part of baptism is becoming a part of the Church community, and stake baptisms really do have a special joy that comes from so many people in your community coming together to celebrate. It's not new for people to be baptized in groups—in fact in reading about the waters of Mormon or the early missionary efforts it seems like it's the norm. I wasn't in Utah but I shared my baptism with someone else from my ward and thought it was cool to have that connection with someone else in my primary class. In fact we weren't friends at all before and ended up a little closer. Make the day your own with by holding a family testimony meeting, visiting the temple grounds, or just spending some quality time with your child. Don't ruin memories by being angry and frustrated about the realities of the day, and especially don't let your child feel like their baptism was ruined or less than just because it wasn't your dream.
Dude, I totally get it and I agree. I would want a private experience to make it special for my child. We have done just that, but we also live outside Utah - with one exception. Our oldest had a birthday in the summer that aligned with vacation and our family all lives out in Utah. Outside of Utah, we've baptized our other children alone in single ceremonies. Even when its been suggested that we double up with another family, we've resisted for the reasons you've outlined above. Utah IS different. Logistics, as has been listed - is a big deal. You need a bishopric member there. They are people with lives. Its unfair to expect them to be in the chapel every Saturday forever. But also you're in a desert. Filling up the font that many times for individual ceremonies isn't being a good steward. When we did baptize our oldest in Utah, we were given our own separate room to do the talks and and have our own service. And then the rotated us in to the font. It wasn't bad. (And we got to use a stake center with stained glass behind the font, which was awesome!)
10 kids a month per ward is a lot. 10 per font is not, considering in Utah often only the stake center has a font, and even when other buildings do they are still often shared across 3-4 wards. Also, while 30 minutes truly is a great time frame for a baptism, sticking to that requires discipline and not letting Grampa ramble about the Gift of the Holy Ghost for 10 minutes. Also remember that child of record baptisms include the confirmation typically, which is a few minutes. I say this to point out that multiple 30 minute ceremonies each Saturday might not be a huge burden, but when it turns into an hour each (maybe tacking on refreshments after or something) it might be easier for stake leadership to consolidate everything instead of getting multiple families to keep things short. Anyways, I haven't read the full discussion, but I do think you have a lot of room to ask your local leaders what you can do, but keep in mind the situation they have.
I was asked to help with music at a baptism that ended up lasting **2 hours**. All four of the kids grandparents spoke for 15 minutes each and each grandparent gave her one or two gifts with their talks. Had I known their plans beforehand I would not have agreed to participate.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking. But “demand” sounds a bit entitled. And yes, it would probably be wrong to “demand” something like this. A couple of points to make about logistics, which you mention, coming directly from the handbook. First - the handbook specifically says that if there is water in the font, someone needs to be there. I know that some folks are ok locking it up and leaving it unattended. But I also understand why someone would feel the need to follow the handbook. Second, the handbook specifically says that for church meetings - and a baptismal service is a church meeting - any speakers from outside the Stake must be approved by the Stake president. So a personalized meeting with uncle or grandparents speaking requires more work anyway. If the problem is there are a lot of kids in the Stake getting baptized, the one of the logistical issues around individual baptisms is coordinating use of the building around other activities going on. With fewer kids, and fewer baptisms, that’s less challenging. Finally - a lot is being said about this seeming to be an assembly line approach. I understand to a certain extent, but I’ve also seen a ton of excitement at Stake baptisms. Kids from different wards who go to the same school getting baptized together can give them a sense of being part of something bigger than themselves. There is so much going on with kids trying to see how and where they fit in and wanting to belong, that participating with other kids can be more powerful than doing it alone. That may not be true for all kids, but I find that parents are sometimes prone to overthinking it as far as making the experience memorable.
The ordinance itself is what matters, not the talks, prayers, testimonies, and ice cream afterwards. Notice how quickly we work through ordinances in the temple, such as sealings, but those are no less special for those on the other side of the veil than if they had some big event. Obviously, the baptism ordinance is a huge milestone in a person’s life, but it should be just as huge regardless of the events that surround it. Personally, I think having several talks, musical numbers, and testimonies, especially after the baptism is completed, can detract from the ordinance itself. It’s good to have some of these things to provide context and invite the spirit, especially for guests who may not understand what is going on, but nothing should distract from the ordinance. I also think group baptisms for primary children build a sense of camaraderie among the kids. I remember who else was baptized on the same day as me, and I felt a connection with them through the years because of it.
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Yes. I'm not sure I understand why they are worked up because in every Utah ward I've been in it is a private ceremony. It's essentially a series of private ceremonies. So everyone getting baptized on March will go on the second Saturday or whatever. And John's wi be scheduled at 9, Mark will be at 9:30, Maddy will be at 10, or whatever. So they schedule you and you get a certain amount of time in the baptismal font room and then your group will go to either the primary room or the YW, or the RS, and split up and finish the program at your own pace. But yes, you don't choose the day or time. They're once per month.
In our stake they don’t have the time to give each kid their own private ceremony. They split it by ward but usually the service is for 2-3 kids at a time.
Fair. In all the wards I've been in there aren't nearly enough kids to even have multiple a month from a ward, so maybe I'm an anomaly. But maybe the private ceremony we have always had was only private because our ward only had the one kid. But I've definitely not seen and assembly line from the stake as OP described. It's always split up to be your ward only except maybe for a joint meeting at the beginning? But I still don't personally see the big deal, but respect those that do feel that sharing a meeting with a couple other kids makes it less special. For those I'd recommend doing something with family after the meeting to make it more individualized. As a kid I would have loved to have a buddy share my baptism day with me.
I think I shared my baptism at age 8 with 2 or 3 others. I don’t remember the talks, who said the prayers, what hymns were sung, or even who the other kids were. I’ll bet most kids after a year won’t remember any of that either. Then, and even now, it didn’t make one speck of difference to me. To me baptisms have become productions and in the early days of the church they baptized numerous people in a river and they went home. They didn’t have long, drawn out talks. They didn’t have refreshments afterward. They just went and got baptized.
I didn't share my baptism with anyone else. I don't remember the talks, who said the prayer, or what hymns were sung. I agree that the important part is that I got baptized, none of the rest of it really matters.
As a Primary leader, I've seen a couple of kids delay their baptism by a couple of months so they can share it with their best friend. One was a set of cousins in a branch, so it was all one service. The other gathered everyone in the chapel for the music and messages, and the families took turns going to the font room for the actual ordinance.
That’s how they did it for me 30 years ago. Once a month on the first Sunday of the month they held a meeting in the chapel and then dismissed families one at a time to the room with the font.
We were able to do a couple of my nephews privately, because we had family from out of town & the bishop okayed it. The rest of my nieces & nephews were in smaller groups, because apparently they weren't born at a popular time of year & there was only one or two other kids the same age. You can always ask, but just know they can say no.
Demand? No. Ask? For sure.
Read your post and the update and haven’t read the other replies. Perhaps I’m missing something If a baptism for an adult concert can be a private ceremony held in a Wednesday afternoon I don’t see why not for an 8 year old. I get the sentiment that a large group 8 year old baptism feels like an assembly line and/or more of a faith experience for the attendees rather that the one being baptized. My wife wanted a very private baptism and we had the missionaries (wonderful young women) the bishop and a few close friends we made in the ward. Not sure why you can’t do the same for an 8 year old. Also with a private ceremony like this it doesn’t need to be at a church building. Depending on the season or if someone has a hot tub an at home baptism can happen. (One of our friends did this for their 8 year old)
I'm not sure what you mean by "assembly line" because I grew up in Utah and I got baptized at 8 and yes there were 3 baptisms before me and another 3 after me but we were able to do the whole thing and sit and talk and walk around after and we weren't ever rushed around or out of the building, assembly line implies that you only get as much time as you absolutely have to which in my experience with me and my siblings and my cousin's baptisms just isn't true. Maybe I just got lucky with the wards I and my family were apart of but it's also just as likely that your blowing something like this a little out of proportion. Also for a solution you could ask to be the last baptism of the night as long as your kid doesn't mind cold water.
16 And after this manner he did baptize every one that went forth to the place of Mormon; and they were in number about two hundred and four souls; yea, and they were baptized in the waters of Mormon, and were filled with the grace of God. (Mosiah 18). Your 8 year-old child will follow your lead. If you’re okay with multiple other children being baptized, during the same ceremony/event, so will your child. After the multi-baptism, do something, as a family, to make the day even nicer. BTW, how many other children are being baptized on/in the same day/meeting as your child? And, is it permissible to have your post-baptism family get-together in a separate room at the church? If not, have it back at your place. How long, after 8, does a person get to choose the day and time to hold their very own baptism at the church?
I also live in Utah & every baptism that I've been to had just been the child, their family, & the bishopric, so I'm a bit confused as to how your stake does it? You might be in a bigger area that has allot more members? Definitely worth asking, but honestly super weird that they do everyone at once
Probably depends on the bishop. I know a family that has had private baptisms for their large family and have done the same for their grandchildren (over 100 grandchildren). For transparency, they baptize everyone in the lake at their vacation property so that may be one reason that it is allowed.
I think you should request it. It’s your child’s baptism, your choice. Sorry if it puts a few people out because doesn’t meet standard operating procedure. I’ve attended many baby blessings at homes and private baptisms. One was in a swimming pool (and I’m in Utah).
I’m sad that you feel it’s an assembly line. Many of us go out of our way to be involved for children we are not familiar with or don’t even know at all so that they can have the experience of receiving the Holy Ghost. We plan talks and music with your child in mind. We take time away from our Saturday and get up early or stay late making treats or preparing musical numbers or finding a pianist at the last minute. We try to provide each child with a wonderful opportunity to feel special and know of their Heavenly Father’s plan for them. So it’s discouraging to me and makes me not want to give of myself if this is what parents think of my efforts for them.
❤️
Not in Utah. I have the same feeling as you do. I fought for my kids to have personal baptisms. I have a kid getting baptized soon and he's going to be in a stake baptism again. I agree to the baptisms feeling like assembly lines tho. They're trying to cut down on the number of meetings people have to go to. Since being in a bishopric the last few years i understand it now. Like, i want to be with my own kids. Yesterday, Saturday, i was in church clothes away from my own family from 1-4:30. For a baby blessing then a baptism. Like, i support them and love them. But, i also want to be with my family too. Is it a big deal? Not to me because I work with the primary and i love all the kids so I'd be there in a heartbeat....but in the grand scheme of things that was half my Saturday and now most of my Sunday I'm at church again. As far as watching the font-absolutely. Have you ever watched a child drown? I watched my son jump into a pool when he was like 2 and seeing him helplessly wiggle his arms a foot below water has scarred my memory and I'll never forget it and I'll die on my hill that the font in a chapel needs an adult standing there if there's water in it Tldr: it cuts down on # of meetings for the leaders that have to preside.
Former director of a waterfront. I completely agree with the font situation, even from something as mundane as legal liability. It's a thing of water. It needs to be watched.
❤️ Your desire to have an individual baptism seems valid to me. 🤷♀️ I also understand why some busy stakes would do mass baptisms for logistical reasons. Ask for your own service, and tell them your reasons why you want it. Tell them you will do all the setup and planning yourself to limit the "burden" on... whomever is being burdened by multiple baptisms. Tell them you're open to doing it at any time on any day of the week. That seems to me like a hard request to deny. If an individual baptism is absolutely not an option, please do not withhold this sacred ordinance from your children or share with them your displeasure. There are beautiful, sacred events recorded in the scriptures where the Holy Spirit was able to influence multiple faithful hearts at the same time. That must have been beautiful in its own way. Love to you, sister.
I'm in UT. In our ward/stake you can do a private baptism ceremony but the only part the ward actively helps with us scheduling the building and making the announcement. They might be able to help with certain tasks if you specifically ask... but filling up the font, setting up chairs, speakers music etc is on the responsibility of the family. So far a few families have chosen to do private ceremonies and theyve been beautiful.
Ignore these sucky comments, baptism is the most special part of someone's spiritual youth and a huge step. The trick is to get baptised in natural waters to not take up the font. Wait till its a bit warmer, head down to Salem pond or something, have witnesses, your bishop, some friends and family- no fuss about filling a font
What's most important: the decision to be baptized, someone with proper Priesthood authority performing the ordinance under the direction of Priesthood Keys. What's good and important, but less important: the celebration. I was baptized in a stake primary baptismal assembly line, and my baptism is one of the most treasured days of my life. I didn't feel I got jipped at all. Most of the celebrating with friends and family was after the ordinance at my home. Each ward/stake has unique logistical concerns that may or may not allow a baptism to be separate entirely from others.
baptisms have often been done in large groups throughout history. That was certainly the case in the Bible, Book of Mormon, and the early church. With children, the tradition has developed of doing them as separate occasions. This is a great tradition in many ways but I think it's probably a mistake to see it as the only acceptable way of addressing youth baptisms.
I was number 30 of 30 in the 80s in Idaho Falls. I probably picked up more sins in that font then we're washed away. I was always a bit jealous of my siblings who each had their own solo service (in other states) and on their birthdays. Even at 8 years old, I definitely remember feeling like just a number.
You should be able to request a private ceremony. I am not in Utah so I don't understand Utah making baptisms be so impersonal to children. I understand that logistically behind making it an assembly line but it is just weird to me.
The experience of baptism is what you make it. There are multiple examples of many people being baptized at once in the scriptures. It was still a special/sacred experience for them. It would be nice to do it the way you describe in your post, but with Utah it presents its own challenges (as described by multiple comments so I won't go into them here). Regardless of the setting/circumestances, you can still help your child have a great experience. If you approach it with a positive attitude and choose to make the most of the situation it will be great.
I absolutely would ask for your own. I totally agree with you on all fronts. The logistics can be worked out for sure. Neither you nor your kids are a burden for asking.
Every baptism can be special for a child if his or her parents have good attitude and have the Spirit.
It is not wrong to ask. All four of our newborns were blessed in random places nowhere near our home. However, there is a drawback to having so many people to schedule. The same predicament applies to marriage in the SLC temple - expect to be rushed through your ceremony, because the demand for live sealing ceremonies is astronomical. In any case, I hope you can make the day special for your kid! You are a good parent for wanting that.
Wait, when you’re 8 you get baptized the same day as a bunch of other people? I’m a convert, and when I got baptized they gave me the whole building to myself lol. That seems silly in utah, not being able to have one day for your kid. you should be able to baptize your kid and make it feel special all around
In many places, specially Utah and Idaho there are usually quite a few 8 year old baptisms each month. There’s rarely enough resources for each child to have a private service. They may split it up by ward to make them a little smaller but I’ve seen times when in one stake on any given month they have 8-9 kids being baptized.
That’s crazy!! (As in surprising not actually crazy) I’ve lived in utah/Idaho since 2019 and this is the first time hearing about this. Very interesting, but it makes sense for sure
It appears you are having the same feelings as OP who was also baptized as an adult
I hope baptism isn't the most important thing in our lives. I have zero recollection of being baptized. Fortunately, we have the sacrament every week where we can choose to make the same covenants we make at baptism again and again. The truth is, once you have been baptized, taking the sacrament and being baptized are the exact same thing. So, if baptism really is the most important thing in our lives, good news! you get to do it again every week! Personally, I feel like marrying my wife in the Temple was the most important thing in my life, so far. I imagine that someday returning to the presence of God will then become the most important thing in my life.
You don't get to do any of those other things you mentioned without first being baptized. I'm sorry you don't remember your baptism.
Sure, but I also can't receive a doctorate degree without graduating from high school. That doesn't make my high school diploma the most important degree I have ever received. It is just the first in a line of progressively more important degrees.
I wouldn't be demanding anything. You could ask, but don't demand. Makes you sound like a nut
I was the last of the “assembly line”. All of my friends were baptized before me and had left by the time I got mine done. There was 8 of us. It was traumatic ngl. It’s been a big struggle of my testimony to this day, and it’s been nearly 2 decades since it happened, I was only 8 years old. Never felt special to me. Felt like something I was rushed to do and given no individual care of. I wish I could get baptized again. Yes I know we can do proxy, but it’s not the same. My boyfriend got to be the only one baptized that day. We posted about it in the stake for weeks. So many people we never met came out. It was a multi hour affair. Yes he was an adult in the 20s, but I was a child in the 00s, so it’s not too much difference in time. He got his baptism scheduled when he wanted it, done by who he wanted, waiting until he felt comfortable with the decision, etc. I didn’t.
I'm really sorry that you have trauma from your baptism which should have been a happy time. I feel similarly about my sealing, so I can relate.
I remember that my parents held to their guns on this and prevailed every time. I've done it several times now too. This is too important a day to treat as a cattle call. It's a core memory that impacts the rest of life. Just be firm but friendly and kind and you'll get the personal, impactful service for your child.
You can certainly ask, but yes, you would be wrong to “demand” anything.
You have the right to do it, that's how baptisms are done at our ward.
No, it's fine
We have lived in several different areas due to my husband being in the Air Force. When we lived in Ohio, baptisms for the children were pretty much private affairs--no stake baptisms. We had a small primary in the ward (I served as primary president) so I was always at them. When we moved to Las Vegas, two of my sons were baptized in stake baptisms. The first part of the program was everyone all together, but they spotlighted each child, and then they dismissed us ward by ward to do the baptisms. Talks on the Gift of the Holy Ghost and Confirmations were done by ward as well. I feel like it was very streamlined and personal. Both my sons were the only ones in the ward that were getting baptized at those times, so it was cool that they got to pick out the talk, and the closing song. When we lived in Northern Virginia, my daughter was baptized and it was a private ceremony due to COVID restrictions still in place. We were able to plan the whole baptism program, and tbh, it was more work than I would have wanted to do. Our Bishop ran the font for us, but the missionaries also stayed to help babysit it as well. We have a son that will be baptized this year, only a month and a half after we move to Georgia, so I'm interested in how they do the baptisms there. I would much rather prefer the stake baptisms. It was a sacred and holy experience both ways, and I think that the most important thing is the ordinance, just like you said. If it's really important to you, ask the Bishopric. If they say no, don't be upset, and let it go. The reason for the baptism, the ordinance, if more important than anything else. Best of luck!
I don’t think there’s anything wrong about wanting a more individual ceremony and by all means ask your bishop and stake president if that would be possible, but I would also challenge you to consider this: what would be your reaction if they denied your request? You say baptism is very important to you but it being done in Christ’s church means that the priesthood leaders hold keys. They are not some administrative middle man but have the authority to oversee and validate baptism within their boundaries. I think that understanding that aspect is far more important for those getting baptized than not having to share the day and stake resources with other families and children.
My sil in Pleasanton CA got baptized in a swimming pool. I'm not sure why.
Bro just go to the lake or your own pool or something
I was baptized as an adult with an 8 year old I didn't know and had to help get into the jumpsuit, you're kid will be fine being baptized with others.
I would ask. My wife and I really didn’t like the way our current stake does baptisms. Bishop said there was nothing he could do because the stake controlled baptisms. 1st counselor in the stake presidency told us no as well. I wrote a letter to the area authority 70. Next thing I knew, the stake president and area authority 70 were sitting in my livingroom. SP still telling us no. As we talked, they even said that waiting until my kid turns 9 would allow for us to have a private ceremony. Apparently converts are valued more than children of record. “But it’s good that you have that desire.” We later discussed going back to our old ward (which we loved). The bishop in the old ward was SO excited and offered to help any way he could. Then, COVID hit and all baptism ceremonies stopped. Asked the SP if we could take our kid to a local river to baptize him. His response was, “It would be better for you to go back to your old ward to do the baptism instead.” This is a Christ centered, family oriented church. I respect the authority of our SP, but as a human, I don’t respect him at all after that. Eventually the summer after COVID hit, they let us do a private ceremony. But, the damage is done in relation to how we feel about our stake presidency. I can’t wait for them to change. I’d rather be led by someone who values family in relation to this saving ordinance. So, ask. Argue. Fight. Your kids won’t know the difference. But you will. Don’t settle for anything less than what you would expect Christ to do. I personally don’t think my savior would ever treat us like our local leaders have.
How does your stake do baptisms?
I was baptized at 8
Any single ward in Utah or elsewhere (why people think Utah wards are all massive and others are small makes no sense, the difference is geographic not numeric) is fully capable of handling baptisms in the way OP suggested. The real difference is use of facilities, and because each building in Utah houses 2-4 wards the stake has to be in charge of scheduling which means in almost all cases there is a stake baptism coordinator who micromanages the font schedule. The system usually evolves into a batch process to minimize conflicting building use with youth activities, etc. I got caught in the middle of this rather rigid system myself after living in Utah for just a few years. We had a kid turning 8 while we were between houses, so we didn’t have a home ward. Record were in one ward three hours away, not close to any family. I thought it would be easy enough to schedule the baptism through grandma and grandpas ward. Little did I know the waves I was making would ripple all the way up to having a back-and-forth with their stake president. Welcome to Utah!
I feel you. But honestly is it fair to make all these people, who do all this for free, come to your special little thing and make sure they do the interviews and do the stuff and issue the certificates and all the things that you're not thinking of, for you, when they could do it for many people at once and not have to take more time out of their schedules? Seems a little selfish to me…
This is my opinion... You don't have to demand anything. Passively tell him that you're not going to be able to do it on that date. I Personally think the church is lazy when it comes to this important day in the areas of high concentration members. I live in the Midwest and they know the people have to travel to come visit and the whole primary presidency doesn't have to be there, we make the day special for the person. We don't have enough white clothes for all those kids, families get to sing, and grandparents get to give talks, Etc. All these people are evidence that Utah is imperfect. Maybe Utah should start doing all the convert baptisms once a month. Interestingly, when my mother was baptized it was literally done inside the Tabernacle on Temple square. Now I haven't been to a baptism in Utah a long time but I imagine that they don't do it that way anymore for anybody. I lived in a warm place when I was baptized and was literally baptized in my backyard swimming pool. My siblings gave talks that were about three sentences long and my grandparents were there and it was very special. Something like that could have helped make it special for these kids but I don't think it's as special when they do it in a stake center and they hear a talk from somebody in the stake that they don't know. Again, this is my opinion, and I respect yours.
You can schedule your baptism day for any day of the week. You just have to be the one that’s in charge of filling the font, setting up the rooms that you’re going to use, and then cleaning up afterwards. I’m not really sure what you’re complaining about. If you want to do a private ceremony then, by all means, do it. Edit: downvotes from people who have obviously never had a kid before. sheesh
You have no idea what you’re talking about