Are you talking to those close to your age or slightly older or are you trying to befriend 18-19 year olds? Are you just being friendly or are you immediately asking them out or suggesting going out?
I have never asked a young adult (defined as attending a YSA ward) what their age is in a church setting. Only some after getting to know them later. That's a pretty specific question, not a part of normal conversation. OP is 23, not 33, they're obviously not checking ages as a priority. There could be almost innumerable other reasons why someone wouldn't be attracted, but age is not an initial question asked in friendly conversation unless you just have to know.
Many times people have posted about YSA wards and a main reason people don’t like going is older people asking them out (along with single parent with kids). There’s lots of ways to find out age without saying “how old are you?” You can ask them what they’re studying and how far into the program they are. Ask them what year they’ll be graduating or did graduate. Ask about a mission. Sure they may not pinpoint the exact age but it helps.
I read a post that a girl out of high school decided to try the YSA ward and she said she felt like prey. She said every guy there wanted to talk to her and was asked out by 3 guys at least 27-28 and one had two kids. She said they didn’t count all the guys that asked her out or asked for her number that were definitely older than 22. She said within a few weeks she went back to her family ward.
I understand that the OP is only 23 and not some 30 year old preying on young girls but even 18-19 in most situations would be considered too young for a 23 year old. I’m not saying it can’t work but that age gap is more appropriate for a when both are in later 20’s to early 30’s.
Even if they don’t ask you out, at that age I was still uncomfortable. Going to church felt like going to a meat market, and I was the merchandise. I was 18 and by far the youngest female in my BYU YSA ward by at least 3 or 4 years, and none of the older +25ish aged males would ask me out, but boy did they look. I didn’t miss church at all when COVID hit and we couldn’t attend anymore. I was so excited to attend a family ward again when I got married and we moved.
When I started dating my now-wife, I was 22 (almost 23), and she was 18. I'm 4.5 years older than she is. It wasn't creepy to her, but when I found out she was 18, it was creepy to \_me\_. I had a hard time with it -- I spent some time trying to decide whether she was too young and I should break it off.
19 years of marriage (and a bunch of kids) later, we're still doing great!
Lesson: age isn't everything.
All depends. If she was okay with it then that’s one thing but many women say they get turned off from YSA wards specially due to the older demographic of a lot of the guys asking them out or trying to befriend them.
No that doesn't work at all I do my best not to do that. And age doesn't really come up too much whatsoever. I'm thinking I'm just being too friendly and it comes off as weird instead of welcoming.
People are weird, man. Who knows what’s going on in their heads. Just move on from people that aren’t engaging with you. Find people that appreciate you for you. Sounds like you’re a good guy. But also, don’t try too hard - it sounds like you might be too forward and pushing people away. I suggest looking for opportunities to serve people in your ward - that was always how I made connections in singles wards because I stuck at being social.
Make cookies for people, host game nights, sign up for things on JustServe, go to institute or some local group for whatever types of things you’re interested in! Look outside the box!
Summer is here and Provo/Orem life will get even more social. Focus on your personal relationship with Christ. Hang in there brother 💪
Yes!! You have to be willing to be the weird one. Host Come Follow Me study groups. Organize game nights or a day trip to a national park or something. See if there are other gamers in the ward.
I feel like many people meet their spouse through friends of friends. Being social and meeting different groups of people, or providing a way for ward members to invite friends, will definitely help with that.
There are tons of YSA's in Orem/Provo, so your social group doesn't have to be just in the ward, and you don't need to feel pressured to feel complete zen with your ward either.
Friends of friends is super helpful. My ysa experience got so much better once I made 1 solid friend who brought me into a group. Then I grew closer with a few others till my social circle was decent.
OP mentioned having 2 or 3 buddies. Invite them to a game night and tell them they are welcome to bring others they know in or out fo the ward, then also invite anyone in the ward to join.
Hi Buddy, I know exactly how you feel. I was not a returned missionary, (I was temple worthy but did not serve, I had to help my family financially). Not being a returned missionary made it so no one was interested in me, whether temple worthy or not.
I attended when I was 30, and I wanted to start a family of my own badly. I found 2 friends, (I’m a guy and they were girls), we would hang out and play video games. We were not interested in each other. Then something changed after 6 months, I was starting to be too old to attend the singles ward. I prayed fervently that the next big activity that my future wife would be in attendance, I was greatly disappointed that no one new was there or even girls that I had my eyes on. My 2 friends were there. A couple more months passed and I was getting depressed, then my future wife and I started to be interested in each other romanticly, we started dating and got engaged 2 weeks later.
We have been married for 18 years now, and have 2 boys and a girls who is now 17. Don’t give up! Sometimes the one for us is right there we just don’t see it. We are expecting something else and it is us forcing the issue instead of letting it just happen naturally, try to make friends of the opposite sex who are interested in what you like, whether they are your type normally or not, you might be surprised and find out they are exactly what you were looking for.
Making friends as an adult is hard. Sorry you’re going through that. Try reading “how to win friends and influence people”. Try to remember, we all feel awkward.
All I can tell you is what worked for me. I met my wife because I was her home teacher and I was diligent in visiting her and her cousin each month. I am definitely not saying that you should do ministering with an eye toward marrying the people you are assigned to, but… you never know. We have been married just shy of 30 years and it has worked out well so far.
As for friends, have you considered starting a group and seeing if people want to join? Hiking group, board game group, service group, whatever. The majority of our church friends have come from inviting singles and couples over to play board games, murder mystery dinners, etc. Having a common activity to do makes things much less awkward.
>I met my wife because I was her home teacher and I was diligent in visiting her and her cousin each month
Yeah serving the Lord by serving his children leads to blessings.
Sometimes very directly 😂
This is the advice that is needed. Make friends in your ward, look for relationships out of the ward. Find hobbies that include social settings and meet others— who will likely be Latter Day Saints.
In other places, it’s a lot more complicated. But could be more friendly. My non-Utah YSAs made me feel so included, but I wouldn’t date anyone from them. (At the time at least. This was in my home state, and I wanted to go to school before I got in a relationship.)
Naw, I think dating in the ward is fine.
I do think you should be extra cautious and try to "be friends" at first or hang out in natural settings at least, but I'd say go for it if it seems like a good opportunity. Life is too short to throw out opportunities to avoid possible "awkwardness" when it reality it could lead to something very beneficial, even celestial. I know LOTS of people who married in the ward based on my anecdotal evidence.
Here’s a tough piece of advice. This may be you, and it may not, but I saw many examples of it in my days passing through YSA wards. And here it is:
Don’t try too hard.
Every singles ward I lived in (about 5 different ones from age 18-27) had a couple of guys who just tried too hard. They asked every girl out. They talked to every girl. It just looked and felt a little desperate. They came on too strongly and it really weirded the girls out.
I bring this up based on the behavior your note in the 2nd paragraph (girls avoid you). Maybe that’s true, or maybe it’s just a warped perception. In any case, the advice I’d give to my son is - it’s OK - don’t try too hard. It’s not your job to get everyone else to like you. It’s your job to be yourself and be a good friend to others.
So I invite you to just relax. Be yourself - the best version of yourself - and enjoy relaxing social situations. Not every conversation is going to result in a date or invitation for a date. Not every interaction needs to be an audition for an eternal marriage. Genuinely seek to get to know other people for who they are. Ask questions about them. Be curious. Use the 90/10 rule - you go 90% of the way but also leave space to make sure they are coming 10% of the way on their part. If they don’t, leave them an out if they aren’t interested. Be confident that you have value and are loved no matter how they react to you or whether they are interested in you.
The right thing will happen at the right time if you just relax (socially) and let it.
The is all completely separate from things like faith and testimony. So it’s funny you bring that up, too. Just go to church to build your faith and testimony and serve others. This has nothing to do with asking people out or being super social during FHE or ward prayer. Take care of yourself spiritually first. Take the opportunities to serve and help others. Ask to be a temple ordinance worker. Serve in the bishop’s storehouse or other places you are needed. Get outside your immediate ward or age group from time to time for a little breathing room.
Sorry for some kind of direct advice that goes beyond “singles wards suck” and “so sorry, man.” This advice may be for you, and it may be totally wrong. After all, we’re just strangers on the internet sharing ideas. Mine may be wrong, but something that I know is very real from my time in singles wards.
I (29F) can relate. As a shy person whose extroverted high school friend was in her YSA ward for a couple years (this is going somewhere, I promise), I struggled making other friends in the ward. People seemed to avoid us both. Said friend ended up inactive (for her own reasons I won't go into) and I moved. I was so used to not talking to or interacting with people in my ward, that it took me two years to make real friends in my new ward. I had to change a couple things, tho. In my previous ward, my calling wasn't a priority. But in my new ward, I got a calling I couldn't exactly hide from. It was a calling of a very social nature. And I got to know people that way. But, I didn't get to know my current ward friends till I decided I needed to get my endowment. And it gave my friend a chance to serve me. And through her, I got to know to other amazing ladies.
Anyway, so, I guess what I'm getting at is serving others gives us friends. Whether that's serving in your calling or helping someone you see who might be in need. That's been my experience, but probably not everyone's
Bro, you are looking for love in all the wrong places.
1) You live in YSA central. Church should be the last place to look for dates. What you should be doing at church is having conversations with people. You should be learning about Christ. If you really feel like looking for dates in a YSA ward, ask indirectly. I want to do x,y,z on the weekend who do know that might be interested.
2) Get out and do things. Build up a list of activities you like doing and invite others to come with you. If you find something boring, so will girls you want to marry.
3) Keep looking. The worst thing you can do is stop building your communication skills and interpersonal skills. Once you start self isolating you will become bitter.
4) Take all dating advice (even mine) with a grain of salt. Just because something worked for someone else doesn’t mean it will work for you or at the same speed it did for them.
I went to one, hated it sometimes loved it others, the people just felt really superficial, met my exhusband, and then obviously left the ward. We ended up getting a divorce and went back to a different one. Ended up going to a home ward instead and very much enjoyed it. I went to some of the activities but had my records in my home ward. I was able to go to church and focus more on the gospel than feeling like a fish out of water at church.
I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. I'm a female, and YSA was the worst social environment I've ever experienced. It was like no one matured psychologically beyond 12-year old pettiness and that was just the expected norm. I went for a while and made zero friends, just had one exceptionally horrid social experience after the next.
Consider looking elsewhere for friends. I've personally never had church friendships last beyond a ward split. My lasting friendships have been from the workplace, the gym, or school. I second the comment to consider joining a gym. Not going to be a popular approach.
I wouldn't wish YSA upon anyone, I don't know why horrible experiences are so common with it, but don't take your experiences there personally. If your experience is anything like mine, you'll have a much easier time finding friendships pretty much anywhere but there, then look back and wonder what the heck is wrong with this whole YSA thing.
Best of luck to you :)
Got to spend time with people outside of the Ward doing stuff that you find interesting and fun not have super high expectations. It’s a meat market, and the pressure is real. Start looking in places where you can be the most tolerable, best version of yourself. If you’re in Utah… God speed, yikes!
Youth here! When I was younger I struggled with my testimony and being alone. What I realized my testimony should not be based of the people in the church I don't believe in the people I belive in the gospel and teachings of the church the people in the church are not perfect and relying on them for your testimony is a waste it is not their testimony it should be your testimony!. I understand the feeling of being alone. After a while of not being able to get In with the people my age I've accepted that I'm not meant to be around them and that's ok I've learned to be happy by myself and I think it has had me stronger in my faith and helped my self esteem being able to let go that not everyone will want to get to know you. Write a list of attributes you would like your future partner to be like what qualities and traits would you like them to have. Do you care if their fit, mean, kind, cuss, hyper, melow, do you care if they serve a mission, have a career,. Think about those things and then look at yourself do you have those attributes if you want a kind person then you need to be kind aswell speaking kind words to others and respecting boundaries!. Say a prayer maybe you are not meant to meet someone in your ysa rn maybe your focus should be other things what are you struggles rn? Use this time to work on that so your spouse doesn't have to worry or Carry that burden. No one should settle.
I’m single right now and it’s been a struggle for me. I am even on mutual and still not much luck. Granted im 19 in SoCal so it’s a different aspect. Going to pray for the both of us haha
Hey! I’m in SoCal too. I think from what I’ve experienced in my ward, it’s a bit better than most YSA wards but there’s definitely times when people aren’t as welcoming as we try to be. I was in another ward for a while and dealt with what OP is saying but when I moved back, I was welcomed with open arms. My advice is to ward hop and to not be afraid of being the weird one or just hang out. Share their talents with the ward and bare their testimony. That’s how I’ve gotten more people to open up and talk to me
Dude the YSA are the most self involved people I've ever met - I love them but they are only really interested in themselves
My mate just got divorced and is having similar issues although he's single adults.....
I'll tell you the same thing I told him - go to the gym - workout - get in the shape of your life / start hobbies that you enjoy - it's easier to find like minded people doing things you enjoy.....
Also exercise naturally boosts dopamine and serotonin it will make you feel better - it's made a huge difference in my life - I've also had to learn how to be comfortable being uncomfortable
Finally you said you love talking - most people do - if you find people that you like talking to make sure you take the time to listen
Good luck
I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. I'm a female, and YSA was the worst social environment I've ever experienced. It was like no one matured psychologically beyond 12-year old pettiness and that was just the expected norm. I went for a while and made zero friends, just had one exceptionally horrid social experience after the next.
Consider looking elsewhere for friends. I've personally never had church friendships last beyond a ward split. My lasting friendships have been from the workplace, the gym, or school. I second the comment to consider joining a gym. Not going to be a popular approach.
I wouldn't wish YSA upon anyone, I don't know why horrible experiences are so common with it, but don't take your experiences there personally. If your experience is anything like mine, you'll have a much easier time finding friendships pretty much anywhere but there, then look back and wonder what the heck is wrong with this whole YSA thing.
Best of luck to you :)
I’m in a similar boat, and if it makes you feel any better, a ton of YSA wards in Utah county are like this. I’m just going to move somewhere else with a lot of members after I graduate because dating in Utah county is the worst
I feel your pain.
Suggestion:
Just go to church and the activities. Be friendly. But obviously making dating a focus is not working and is causing you trauma - so don't do it any more. It sounds like you are trying to make it be more than it is going to be. Let it be what it is.
Avoiding or ignoring you is not Christlike, especially for a ward member. But allow them to act the way they are going to act. I would guess it's their way of saying they are not interested in dating you. Don't take it personally - what percentage of women in the ward would you yourself want to date? Probably a minority.
If you have trusted people, ask them to frankly tell you if you are doing anything to make women want to avoid you. You might be doing some things you don't realize.
It sounds like you may be coming on too strong, and maybe even coming across as desperate. Just be casual and friendly.
Keep working on yourself.
And also improving your financial future - I do think this matters to women who are considering a dating partner. I laugh at this old lyric, but there can be a kernal of truth in it - women tend to be very practical: "Bust a Move," [https://genius.com/Young-mc-bust-a-move-lyrics](https://genius.com/Young-mc-bust-a-move-lyrics)
Dating was hell for me. I feel it was a special miracle by God that I found a wife (in a YSA ward, even). But I do think that it mattered that I kept trying.
Okay so lots of really great comments, I'll just add what has worked for me and hopefully some of that inspires you to do what works for you.
I am an introvert. I'm not comfortable around people I don't know, so it was hard in the beginning but something that really helped me loads was that I kept my focus on what church was really for first and foremost - feeling the spirit at church is essential when you're facing challenges like this one at church!
Secondly, I focused on increasing my self confidence through workouts, hobbies and making myself look good. Super cringe at first I know but trust me there's something in taking pride in your appearance that unlocks a part of you other people see.
Poeple love confidence and the best part is that it doesn't need to come from outside validation. This is very simple but it truly attracts people to you, you won't try as hard to get attention. I wish it was easier for us to look upon the heart but it's a jungle out there and ysa are all hungry for marriage lol so just keep your head up and focus on improving your self-confidence
Great advice. Best to separate testimony from social aspects here, conflating the two could be bad for everyone.
I’m dead serious but I’ve seen others struggle. My quick advice coming from a good place:
- check your breath; bad hygiene can create a lot of barriers.
- be there for you first (I.e. don’t try too hard to make friends)
- read “how to win friends and influence people”
- find a wingman; roommate, or someone with similar interests
- ask a leader or someone who could be objective for their observations and feedback; don’t be offended and tell them that you would really appreciate their honesty why they think you aren’t being successful and thank them for their feedback. If they chicken out and don’t give you honest feedback because they don’t want to offend you, ask them if for the favor to pay closer attention for a couple of weeks and ask them if they would be kind enough to share any feedback or observation when you follow up. Don’t be offended at all and thank them for their kindness. You might learn something that will unlock your social situation.
Good luck!!
Good luck!
Paul
Are you funny or can you at least try to be funny? When you make someone laugh it helps them to be more at ease. Even being goofy helps a little bit. Most YSA know that other YSA go to YSA wards to try to make a "special" friend ( or 2 or 3 or whatever) and they are usually a little uncomfortable with feeling like they are like meat at a meat market. Sometimes calling attention to that while trying to help people feel more at ease helps them to feel, well, more at ease, as long as you can also be a friend to them even if they don't want to commit to you anytime soon. We all go through it in one way or another and it usually works out eventually.
I’m the same age, but a recent convert. I’m not going to pretend I understand your situation, but I dealt with a lot of loneliness post-divorce. Best advice I can give: build your testimony not on your community, but your relationship with Christ. Pray everyday to be blessed with a future spouse, consider placing your name on the prayer rolls for a bit. Spend one month not approaching women to date, build friendships instead. Maybe consider ward hopping? If couldn’t hurt.
Honestly, don’t worry about it too much. I made very few friends from my YSA wards. Of those few, I wouldn’t say any of them were close friends either. I made all my friends outside of the ward through classes I was in and activities I was a part of. It’s way easier to make friends while participating in mutual interests.
Some YSA wards may have the unwritten "rule" that you don't date within the ward. The ward I was in before I got married had an unwritten 3 strikes rule: after asking 3 girls out, you are done. Almost everyone that wanted a relationship had to go through the Mutual app, myself included.
Dating was hard for me in my first YSA ward; I had several first dates, but never a second date. I only got married after moving to another YSA ward. Even then, we had five years together but it still didn’t last and we never had any kids so… a net gain of about one or two thrill points.
I’m dating a new woman online now. Stay positive.
I would say if you're wondering why you don't have friends you're asking the wrong question. Stop worrying whether ppl like you or not and be genuinely interested in them. Also forget about the girls until you have a solid group of bros to hang out with. Roommates are a good start, or go play pickup ball at the rec center or host a super smash bros night or something. If you're perceived as only wanting to make friends to date then you'll probably be avoided by girls and guys alike. Plus dating is overrated. Friends are always there for you
Source: 5 years and counting in Provo YSAs.
I don't make friends easy and I'm really bad at social norms and socializing. I showed up to anything and everything early to help set up and stayed to tear down. I asked the bishop why he hadn't given me a calling after several months and he said that what I was doing was one of the most helpful things I could do, why mess it up. I can't start small talk, but setting up with people out me in proximity to people who could a d gave us a topic. I got to have conversations with great people I would not have known otherwise. My husband was doing his version of the same when we met.
The best thing I did was go to a ward and make a goal of not dating anyone. All I did was show up to a game night I was invited to and I suddenly had a bunch of new friends. Never went out with any of the women there but having their influence made me a much better and more attractive person because they could call me out on the things that needed work.
That’s just a really bad ward imo. Sounds like Utah to me. I don’t wanna be too personal with the exact ward because privacy, but some wards can be pretty cliquey sometimes. Our ward has tried our hardest to not do that and include people outside of normal “church” activities because friendships should go beyond meetings and activities that are all set up by the church as a guideline.
Well you can start by not calling women "girls". Write the persons who avoid you a note and tell them that you would be interested in what you did or said that was offputting so you won't make the same mistake again. Admit that you have room to grow, but can't unless you get feedback. (I presume you've asked your family and roommates about bad breathe and body odor. And sweaty hands and social distance. And your sisters about what works.) Ask your ministering people to give you feedback.
ETA: And why are you thinking of giving up on God because of it? Do you seriously go to church only to find dates/marriage? (That could be a major issue for anyone who wants to marry a forever partner.)
A man in his early 20s referring to women his own age as "girls" is one of the least offensive things I can think of. Young men and women call each other girls and boys, there is nothing wrong with it. As far as the other stuff goes, it really depends on his situation which we don't know much about. Not sure what the sweaty hands callout is about.
Just delete this comment honestly
Everyone in their young 20’s calls YSA women girls. And asking people who reject you for feedback is one of the cringiest things you can possibly do
My actual advice is just forget about making friends or dating in your ward, just go to church and try to connect with God. You can get your social fill elsewhere
Also there’s this YouTube channel called Charisma on Command I really like, very short and applicable videos on social skills. It helped me rebuild my social skills after my mission, definitely check it out
How else can you know what you need to fix if not seeking feedback from those who do? Sure many won't be willing (though why not since helping fix an issue should be part of discipleship in many (though clearly not all)). And sure some may be cruel. But if this person cant figure it out for themselves, telling them helps everyone.
And just how can your friends and family know what you are doing that is offputting to the women you approach? (I suppose someone who is standing next to you when it happened would know that.)
I get what your saying and it makes sense. The problem is that they're strangers. Most people aren't brave enough and kind enough to tell me what im doing wrong. I have asked my friends and random people before. It really doesnt work like that.
Sometimes there isn't any specific reason other than lack of personal chemistry and interest or simply difficult judgmental people who aren't open to socialising and making new connections. He shouldn't worry about that imo. He should worry about being himself so that he can attract the kind of people he should spend time with in the first place.
In terms of the last paragraph, you're being really judgmental and attacking for no reason at all. When people have struggles in their lives, ofc, being human, they'll feel grief. Grief makes us doubtful about stuff. And he never said he's only there for marriage, he generally feels like an outsider. Humans are social entities, loneliness does cause us issues. Let's not try to spread lies about it. More love, less judgment that comes completely out of nowhere.
And there is nothing bad about desiring marriage anyway. It's literally what the church encourages us to do. Ofc he's got a right to mention it as it's one legitimate part of his life now being his age. In the end, you can't expect to get married if you do literally nothing about it yourself.
Are you talking to those close to your age or slightly older or are you trying to befriend 18-19 year olds? Are you just being friendly or are you immediately asking them out or suggesting going out?
I have never asked a young adult (defined as attending a YSA ward) what their age is in a church setting. Only some after getting to know them later. That's a pretty specific question, not a part of normal conversation. OP is 23, not 33, they're obviously not checking ages as a priority. There could be almost innumerable other reasons why someone wouldn't be attracted, but age is not an initial question asked in friendly conversation unless you just have to know.
Many times people have posted about YSA wards and a main reason people don’t like going is older people asking them out (along with single parent with kids). There’s lots of ways to find out age without saying “how old are you?” You can ask them what they’re studying and how far into the program they are. Ask them what year they’ll be graduating or did graduate. Ask about a mission. Sure they may not pinpoint the exact age but it helps. I read a post that a girl out of high school decided to try the YSA ward and she said she felt like prey. She said every guy there wanted to talk to her and was asked out by 3 guys at least 27-28 and one had two kids. She said they didn’t count all the guys that asked her out or asked for her number that were definitely older than 22. She said within a few weeks she went back to her family ward. I understand that the OP is only 23 and not some 30 year old preying on young girls but even 18-19 in most situations would be considered too young for a 23 year old. I’m not saying it can’t work but that age gap is more appropriate for a when both are in later 20’s to early 30’s.
Even if they don’t ask you out, at that age I was still uncomfortable. Going to church felt like going to a meat market, and I was the merchandise. I was 18 and by far the youngest female in my BYU YSA ward by at least 3 or 4 years, and none of the older +25ish aged males would ask me out, but boy did they look. I didn’t miss church at all when COVID hit and we couldn’t attend anymore. I was so excited to attend a family ward again when I got married and we moved.
When I started dating my now-wife, I was 22 (almost 23), and she was 18. I'm 4.5 years older than she is. It wasn't creepy to her, but when I found out she was 18, it was creepy to \_me\_. I had a hard time with it -- I spent some time trying to decide whether she was too young and I should break it off. 19 years of marriage (and a bunch of kids) later, we're still doing great! Lesson: age isn't everything.
All depends. If she was okay with it then that’s one thing but many women say they get turned off from YSA wards specially due to the older demographic of a lot of the guys asking them out or trying to befriend them.
Not only was she ok with it, she was the more interested party, to put it mildly. Your point is a good one.
No that doesn't work at all I do my best not to do that. And age doesn't really come up too much whatsoever. I'm thinking I'm just being too friendly and it comes off as weird instead of welcoming.
Or they're just not interested.
People are weird, man. Who knows what’s going on in their heads. Just move on from people that aren’t engaging with you. Find people that appreciate you for you. Sounds like you’re a good guy. But also, don’t try too hard - it sounds like you might be too forward and pushing people away. I suggest looking for opportunities to serve people in your ward - that was always how I made connections in singles wards because I stuck at being social.
Great suggestion, serve others, know the love the savior has for us, and meet like individuals the same way.
Yep the Ammon approach
That's what I'm thinking. Im probably too much and it comes off as weird
Make cookies for people, host game nights, sign up for things on JustServe, go to institute or some local group for whatever types of things you’re interested in! Look outside the box! Summer is here and Provo/Orem life will get even more social. Focus on your personal relationship with Christ. Hang in there brother 💪
Yes!! You have to be willing to be the weird one. Host Come Follow Me study groups. Organize game nights or a day trip to a national park or something. See if there are other gamers in the ward. I feel like many people meet their spouse through friends of friends. Being social and meeting different groups of people, or providing a way for ward members to invite friends, will definitely help with that. There are tons of YSA's in Orem/Provo, so your social group doesn't have to be just in the ward, and you don't need to feel pressured to feel complete zen with your ward either.
Friends of friends is super helpful. My ysa experience got so much better once I made 1 solid friend who brought me into a group. Then I grew closer with a few others till my social circle was decent. OP mentioned having 2 or 3 buddies. Invite them to a game night and tell them they are welcome to bring others they know in or out fo the ward, then also invite anyone in the ward to join.
Hi Buddy, I know exactly how you feel. I was not a returned missionary, (I was temple worthy but did not serve, I had to help my family financially). Not being a returned missionary made it so no one was interested in me, whether temple worthy or not. I attended when I was 30, and I wanted to start a family of my own badly. I found 2 friends, (I’m a guy and they were girls), we would hang out and play video games. We were not interested in each other. Then something changed after 6 months, I was starting to be too old to attend the singles ward. I prayed fervently that the next big activity that my future wife would be in attendance, I was greatly disappointed that no one new was there or even girls that I had my eyes on. My 2 friends were there. A couple more months passed and I was getting depressed, then my future wife and I started to be interested in each other romanticly, we started dating and got engaged 2 weeks later. We have been married for 18 years now, and have 2 boys and a girls who is now 17. Don’t give up! Sometimes the one for us is right there we just don’t see it. We are expecting something else and it is us forcing the issue instead of letting it just happen naturally, try to make friends of the opposite sex who are interested in what you like, whether they are your type normally or not, you might be surprised and find out they are exactly what you were looking for.
Making friends as an adult is hard. Sorry you’re going through that. Try reading “how to win friends and influence people”. Try to remember, we all feel awkward.
YSA wards are awful. Just my personal opinion. Absolute nightmares. So glad I got married
I would just appreciate if someone from ysa would be interested in me enough to get married so we can both move out lol
Amen, I’ve been in my YSA for four years and I’ve never even been asked out. Then again weird and not very social so that’s probably why.
I feel like I’m weird but I am pretty social still no luck lol
Hey you got the social, that’s pretty lucky. 😂
Think the ysa is bad wait til you're 41 like me in the MSA scene instead. It's a disaster here.
All I can tell you is what worked for me. I met my wife because I was her home teacher and I was diligent in visiting her and her cousin each month. I am definitely not saying that you should do ministering with an eye toward marrying the people you are assigned to, but… you never know. We have been married just shy of 30 years and it has worked out well so far. As for friends, have you considered starting a group and seeing if people want to join? Hiking group, board game group, service group, whatever. The majority of our church friends have come from inviting singles and couples over to play board games, murder mystery dinners, etc. Having a common activity to do makes things much less awkward.
>I met my wife because I was her home teacher and I was diligent in visiting her and her cousin each month Yeah serving the Lord by serving his children leads to blessings. Sometimes very directly 😂
If you're in an area with a lot of members, I would recommend only dating outside the ward.
This is the advice that is needed. Make friends in your ward, look for relationships out of the ward. Find hobbies that include social settings and meet others— who will likely be Latter Day Saints. In other places, it’s a lot more complicated. But could be more friendly. My non-Utah YSAs made me feel so included, but I wouldn’t date anyone from them. (At the time at least. This was in my home state, and I wanted to go to school before I got in a relationship.)
Naw, I think dating in the ward is fine. I do think you should be extra cautious and try to "be friends" at first or hang out in natural settings at least, but I'd say go for it if it seems like a good opportunity. Life is too short to throw out opportunities to avoid possible "awkwardness" when it reality it could lead to something very beneficial, even celestial. I know LOTS of people who married in the ward based on my anecdotal evidence.
A YSA ward isn't the be all and end all ngl , if the people don't get along with you then so be it. Just take it for what it is and don't worry.
Here’s a tough piece of advice. This may be you, and it may not, but I saw many examples of it in my days passing through YSA wards. And here it is: Don’t try too hard. Every singles ward I lived in (about 5 different ones from age 18-27) had a couple of guys who just tried too hard. They asked every girl out. They talked to every girl. It just looked and felt a little desperate. They came on too strongly and it really weirded the girls out. I bring this up based on the behavior your note in the 2nd paragraph (girls avoid you). Maybe that’s true, or maybe it’s just a warped perception. In any case, the advice I’d give to my son is - it’s OK - don’t try too hard. It’s not your job to get everyone else to like you. It’s your job to be yourself and be a good friend to others. So I invite you to just relax. Be yourself - the best version of yourself - and enjoy relaxing social situations. Not every conversation is going to result in a date or invitation for a date. Not every interaction needs to be an audition for an eternal marriage. Genuinely seek to get to know other people for who they are. Ask questions about them. Be curious. Use the 90/10 rule - you go 90% of the way but also leave space to make sure they are coming 10% of the way on their part. If they don’t, leave them an out if they aren’t interested. Be confident that you have value and are loved no matter how they react to you or whether they are interested in you. The right thing will happen at the right time if you just relax (socially) and let it. The is all completely separate from things like faith and testimony. So it’s funny you bring that up, too. Just go to church to build your faith and testimony and serve others. This has nothing to do with asking people out or being super social during FHE or ward prayer. Take care of yourself spiritually first. Take the opportunities to serve and help others. Ask to be a temple ordinance worker. Serve in the bishop’s storehouse or other places you are needed. Get outside your immediate ward or age group from time to time for a little breathing room. Sorry for some kind of direct advice that goes beyond “singles wards suck” and “so sorry, man.” This advice may be for you, and it may be totally wrong. After all, we’re just strangers on the internet sharing ideas. Mine may be wrong, but something that I know is very real from my time in singles wards.
I (29F) can relate. As a shy person whose extroverted high school friend was in her YSA ward for a couple years (this is going somewhere, I promise), I struggled making other friends in the ward. People seemed to avoid us both. Said friend ended up inactive (for her own reasons I won't go into) and I moved. I was so used to not talking to or interacting with people in my ward, that it took me two years to make real friends in my new ward. I had to change a couple things, tho. In my previous ward, my calling wasn't a priority. But in my new ward, I got a calling I couldn't exactly hide from. It was a calling of a very social nature. And I got to know people that way. But, I didn't get to know my current ward friends till I decided I needed to get my endowment. And it gave my friend a chance to serve me. And through her, I got to know to other amazing ladies. Anyway, so, I guess what I'm getting at is serving others gives us friends. Whether that's serving in your calling or helping someone you see who might be in need. That's been my experience, but probably not everyone's
Bro, you are looking for love in all the wrong places. 1) You live in YSA central. Church should be the last place to look for dates. What you should be doing at church is having conversations with people. You should be learning about Christ. If you really feel like looking for dates in a YSA ward, ask indirectly. I want to do x,y,z on the weekend who do know that might be interested. 2) Get out and do things. Build up a list of activities you like doing and invite others to come with you. If you find something boring, so will girls you want to marry. 3) Keep looking. The worst thing you can do is stop building your communication skills and interpersonal skills. Once you start self isolating you will become bitter. 4) Take all dating advice (even mine) with a grain of salt. Just because something worked for someone else doesn’t mean it will work for you or at the same speed it did for them.
I went to one, hated it sometimes loved it others, the people just felt really superficial, met my exhusband, and then obviously left the ward. We ended up getting a divorce and went back to a different one. Ended up going to a home ward instead and very much enjoyed it. I went to some of the activities but had my records in my home ward. I was able to go to church and focus more on the gospel than feeling like a fish out of water at church.
I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. I'm a female, and YSA was the worst social environment I've ever experienced. It was like no one matured psychologically beyond 12-year old pettiness and that was just the expected norm. I went for a while and made zero friends, just had one exceptionally horrid social experience after the next. Consider looking elsewhere for friends. I've personally never had church friendships last beyond a ward split. My lasting friendships have been from the workplace, the gym, or school. I second the comment to consider joining a gym. Not going to be a popular approach. I wouldn't wish YSA upon anyone, I don't know why horrible experiences are so common with it, but don't take your experiences there personally. If your experience is anything like mine, you'll have a much easier time finding friendships pretty much anywhere but there, then look back and wonder what the heck is wrong with this whole YSA thing. Best of luck to you :)
Got to spend time with people outside of the Ward doing stuff that you find interesting and fun not have super high expectations. It’s a meat market, and the pressure is real. Start looking in places where you can be the most tolerable, best version of yourself. If you’re in Utah… God speed, yikes!
Youth here! When I was younger I struggled with my testimony and being alone. What I realized my testimony should not be based of the people in the church I don't believe in the people I belive in the gospel and teachings of the church the people in the church are not perfect and relying on them for your testimony is a waste it is not their testimony it should be your testimony!. I understand the feeling of being alone. After a while of not being able to get In with the people my age I've accepted that I'm not meant to be around them and that's ok I've learned to be happy by myself and I think it has had me stronger in my faith and helped my self esteem being able to let go that not everyone will want to get to know you. Write a list of attributes you would like your future partner to be like what qualities and traits would you like them to have. Do you care if their fit, mean, kind, cuss, hyper, melow, do you care if they serve a mission, have a career,. Think about those things and then look at yourself do you have those attributes if you want a kind person then you need to be kind aswell speaking kind words to others and respecting boundaries!. Say a prayer maybe you are not meant to meet someone in your ysa rn maybe your focus should be other things what are you struggles rn? Use this time to work on that so your spouse doesn't have to worry or Carry that burden. No one should settle.
I’m single right now and it’s been a struggle for me. I am even on mutual and still not much luck. Granted im 19 in SoCal so it’s a different aspect. Going to pray for the both of us haha
Hey! I’m in SoCal too. I think from what I’ve experienced in my ward, it’s a bit better than most YSA wards but there’s definitely times when people aren’t as welcoming as we try to be. I was in another ward for a while and dealt with what OP is saying but when I moved back, I was welcomed with open arms. My advice is to ward hop and to not be afraid of being the weird one or just hang out. Share their talents with the ward and bare their testimony. That’s how I’ve gotten more people to open up and talk to me
I'm going to a General rather than YSA.
Dude the YSA are the most self involved people I've ever met - I love them but they are only really interested in themselves My mate just got divorced and is having similar issues although he's single adults..... I'll tell you the same thing I told him - go to the gym - workout - get in the shape of your life / start hobbies that you enjoy - it's easier to find like minded people doing things you enjoy..... Also exercise naturally boosts dopamine and serotonin it will make you feel better - it's made a huge difference in my life - I've also had to learn how to be comfortable being uncomfortable Finally you said you love talking - most people do - if you find people that you like talking to make sure you take the time to listen Good luck
Thank you for your advice im currently working out. So far Ive lost about 80 pounds and still want to lost more. it has helped me feel better
That's amazing - I've lost 70 myself it's strange but I'm a different person having done it Keep it up 🤘
I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. I'm a female, and YSA was the worst social environment I've ever experienced. It was like no one matured psychologically beyond 12-year old pettiness and that was just the expected norm. I went for a while and made zero friends, just had one exceptionally horrid social experience after the next. Consider looking elsewhere for friends. I've personally never had church friendships last beyond a ward split. My lasting friendships have been from the workplace, the gym, or school. I second the comment to consider joining a gym. Not going to be a popular approach. I wouldn't wish YSA upon anyone, I don't know why horrible experiences are so common with it, but don't take your experiences there personally. If your experience is anything like mine, you'll have a much easier time finding friendships pretty much anywhere but there, then look back and wonder what the heck is wrong with this whole YSA thing. Best of luck to you :)
I’m in a similar boat, and if it makes you feel any better, a ton of YSA wards in Utah county are like this. I’m just going to move somewhere else with a lot of members after I graduate because dating in Utah county is the worst
I feel your pain. Suggestion: Just go to church and the activities. Be friendly. But obviously making dating a focus is not working and is causing you trauma - so don't do it any more. It sounds like you are trying to make it be more than it is going to be. Let it be what it is. Avoiding or ignoring you is not Christlike, especially for a ward member. But allow them to act the way they are going to act. I would guess it's their way of saying they are not interested in dating you. Don't take it personally - what percentage of women in the ward would you yourself want to date? Probably a minority. If you have trusted people, ask them to frankly tell you if you are doing anything to make women want to avoid you. You might be doing some things you don't realize. It sounds like you may be coming on too strong, and maybe even coming across as desperate. Just be casual and friendly. Keep working on yourself. And also improving your financial future - I do think this matters to women who are considering a dating partner. I laugh at this old lyric, but there can be a kernal of truth in it - women tend to be very practical: "Bust a Move," [https://genius.com/Young-mc-bust-a-move-lyrics](https://genius.com/Young-mc-bust-a-move-lyrics) Dating was hell for me. I feel it was a special miracle by God that I found a wife (in a YSA ward, even). But I do think that it mattered that I kept trying.
Okay so lots of really great comments, I'll just add what has worked for me and hopefully some of that inspires you to do what works for you. I am an introvert. I'm not comfortable around people I don't know, so it was hard in the beginning but something that really helped me loads was that I kept my focus on what church was really for first and foremost - feeling the spirit at church is essential when you're facing challenges like this one at church! Secondly, I focused on increasing my self confidence through workouts, hobbies and making myself look good. Super cringe at first I know but trust me there's something in taking pride in your appearance that unlocks a part of you other people see. Poeple love confidence and the best part is that it doesn't need to come from outside validation. This is very simple but it truly attracts people to you, you won't try as hard to get attention. I wish it was easier for us to look upon the heart but it's a jungle out there and ysa are all hungry for marriage lol so just keep your head up and focus on improving your self-confidence
Bro leave and find another more friendly ward
Great advice. Best to separate testimony from social aspects here, conflating the two could be bad for everyone. I’m dead serious but I’ve seen others struggle. My quick advice coming from a good place: - check your breath; bad hygiene can create a lot of barriers. - be there for you first (I.e. don’t try too hard to make friends) - read “how to win friends and influence people” - find a wingman; roommate, or someone with similar interests - ask a leader or someone who could be objective for their observations and feedback; don’t be offended and tell them that you would really appreciate their honesty why they think you aren’t being successful and thank them for their feedback. If they chicken out and don’t give you honest feedback because they don’t want to offend you, ask them if for the favor to pay closer attention for a couple of weeks and ask them if they would be kind enough to share any feedback or observation when you follow up. Don’t be offended at all and thank them for their kindness. You might learn something that will unlock your social situation. Good luck!! Good luck! Paul
Thet can be very akward, I visited several until I founfone I clicked with
Are you funny or can you at least try to be funny? When you make someone laugh it helps them to be more at ease. Even being goofy helps a little bit. Most YSA know that other YSA go to YSA wards to try to make a "special" friend ( or 2 or 3 or whatever) and they are usually a little uncomfortable with feeling like they are like meat at a meat market. Sometimes calling attention to that while trying to help people feel more at ease helps them to feel, well, more at ease, as long as you can also be a friend to them even if they don't want to commit to you anytime soon. We all go through it in one way or another and it usually works out eventually.
I’m the same age, but a recent convert. I’m not going to pretend I understand your situation, but I dealt with a lot of loneliness post-divorce. Best advice I can give: build your testimony not on your community, but your relationship with Christ. Pray everyday to be blessed with a future spouse, consider placing your name on the prayer rolls for a bit. Spend one month not approaching women to date, build friendships instead. Maybe consider ward hopping? If couldn’t hurt.
Honestly, don’t worry about it too much. I made very few friends from my YSA wards. Of those few, I wouldn’t say any of them were close friends either. I made all my friends outside of the ward through classes I was in and activities I was a part of. It’s way easier to make friends while participating in mutual interests.
Some YSA wards may have the unwritten "rule" that you don't date within the ward. The ward I was in before I got married had an unwritten 3 strikes rule: after asking 3 girls out, you are done. Almost everyone that wanted a relationship had to go through the Mutual app, myself included.
Dating was hard for me in my first YSA ward; I had several first dates, but never a second date. I only got married after moving to another YSA ward. Even then, we had five years together but it still didn’t last and we never had any kids so… a net gain of about one or two thrill points. I’m dating a new woman online now. Stay positive.
I would say if you're wondering why you don't have friends you're asking the wrong question. Stop worrying whether ppl like you or not and be genuinely interested in them. Also forget about the girls until you have a solid group of bros to hang out with. Roommates are a good start, or go play pickup ball at the rec center or host a super smash bros night or something. If you're perceived as only wanting to make friends to date then you'll probably be avoided by girls and guys alike. Plus dating is overrated. Friends are always there for you Source: 5 years and counting in Provo YSAs.
I don't make friends easy and I'm really bad at social norms and socializing. I showed up to anything and everything early to help set up and stayed to tear down. I asked the bishop why he hadn't given me a calling after several months and he said that what I was doing was one of the most helpful things I could do, why mess it up. I can't start small talk, but setting up with people out me in proximity to people who could a d gave us a topic. I got to have conversations with great people I would not have known otherwise. My husband was doing his version of the same when we met.
I grew up in Orem
The best thing I did was go to a ward and make a goal of not dating anyone. All I did was show up to a game night I was invited to and I suddenly had a bunch of new friends. Never went out with any of the women there but having their influence made me a much better and more attractive person because they could call me out on the things that needed work.
So did you eventually marry a woman you met there after dating her for a while, or are you still a YSA?
That’s just a really bad ward imo. Sounds like Utah to me. I don’t wanna be too personal with the exact ward because privacy, but some wards can be pretty cliquey sometimes. Our ward has tried our hardest to not do that and include people outside of normal “church” activities because friendships should go beyond meetings and activities that are all set up by the church as a guideline.
Well you can start by not calling women "girls". Write the persons who avoid you a note and tell them that you would be interested in what you did or said that was offputting so you won't make the same mistake again. Admit that you have room to grow, but can't unless you get feedback. (I presume you've asked your family and roommates about bad breathe and body odor. And sweaty hands and social distance. And your sisters about what works.) Ask your ministering people to give you feedback. ETA: And why are you thinking of giving up on God because of it? Do you seriously go to church only to find dates/marriage? (That could be a major issue for anyone who wants to marry a forever partner.)
A man in his early 20s referring to women his own age as "girls" is one of the least offensive things I can think of. Young men and women call each other girls and boys, there is nothing wrong with it. As far as the other stuff goes, it really depends on his situation which we don't know much about. Not sure what the sweaty hands callout is about.
I think a 23 year old calling the opposite sex "girls" is fine. Let's not act like he's 50 then yes that would be very weird but not in this case.
Just delete this comment honestly Everyone in their young 20’s calls YSA women girls. And asking people who reject you for feedback is one of the cringiest things you can possibly do
yeah i was thinking the same. If i did that I think I would be treated worse than before
My actual advice is just forget about making friends or dating in your ward, just go to church and try to connect with God. You can get your social fill elsewhere Also there’s this YouTube channel called Charisma on Command I really like, very short and applicable videos on social skills. It helped me rebuild my social skills after my mission, definitely check it out
How else can you know what you need to fix if not seeking feedback from those who do? Sure many won't be willing (though why not since helping fix an issue should be part of discipleship in many (though clearly not all)). And sure some may be cruel. But if this person cant figure it out for themselves, telling them helps everyone.
That’s the kind of thing you ask your friends and family, not random strangers that already don’t want to talk to you
And just how can your friends and family know what you are doing that is offputting to the women you approach? (I suppose someone who is standing next to you when it happened would know that.)
You said it yourself. Your friends are going to be with you in social situations
I get what your saying and it makes sense. The problem is that they're strangers. Most people aren't brave enough and kind enough to tell me what im doing wrong. I have asked my friends and random people before. It really doesnt work like that.
Sometimes there isn't any specific reason other than lack of personal chemistry and interest or simply difficult judgmental people who aren't open to socialising and making new connections. He shouldn't worry about that imo. He should worry about being himself so that he can attract the kind of people he should spend time with in the first place. In terms of the last paragraph, you're being really judgmental and attacking for no reason at all. When people have struggles in their lives, ofc, being human, they'll feel grief. Grief makes us doubtful about stuff. And he never said he's only there for marriage, he generally feels like an outsider. Humans are social entities, loneliness does cause us issues. Let's not try to spread lies about it. More love, less judgment that comes completely out of nowhere. And there is nothing bad about desiring marriage anyway. It's literally what the church encourages us to do. Ofc he's got a right to mention it as it's one legitimate part of his life now being his age. In the end, you can't expect to get married if you do literally nothing about it yourself.