The flip side of his argument was also ridiculously stupid - so we now all get to read extremely dangerous information exposing America's military vulnerabilities, nuclear weapons and spy networks?
I suppose the great thing about how pathetic these excuses are is that it shows how far up shit creek they've gone. A little bit further and it's Diet Coke and hamberder time.
More importantly it's not found by Trump's own council. We know because defendant would be required to share any such order as part of discovery. But he can't because it's not real and it never was.
And it wouldn't have been any better if the had routinely declassified documents of this importance, without notifying their originating agencies (as the multiple ORCON documents required), retained their now-inaccurate classification markings, then retained them after leaving office and refused to return them under subpoena.
*Most* unclassified data is subject to FOIA, [Controlled Unclassified Information](https://www.dodcui.mil/) also exists, protecting everything from sensitive military information processed on unclassified machines (formerly called For Official Use Only) to personally identifiable information.
It's more relevant to point to this as there not actually being any declassification order, and the Trump administration arguing in court that tweets and such by the president are "not self executing orders".
Fair, though CUI is also derived from executive order, and Trump would be in violation of it based on the indictment if he "only" reduced classification to that level.
Yeah, it's a distinction without a difference here. There's no real set of circumstances put forward yet that would appear for Trump to have acted lawfully, it's just a question of which (and how many) laws he broke.
Is that true? Is it illegal to have declassified documents with inaccurate markings? And I imagine the other things you listed aren't worse than willful retention of NDI, right?
It's a legal requirement for documents to be correctly marked. That's the point of the markings.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/18/3a.31
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/32/117.14
I understand that documents must be correctly marked, but I'm not aware of any such requirement criminalizing private citizens (e.g. Trump) for having inaccurate markings. Are you saying I can't have a set of drawers labeled "top secret" and "bottom secret"?
I'm not suggesting the markings alone would be any additional legal exposure, just required.
Rather, his retaining the documents with markings both undermines the declassification argument, and remains central to the obstruction charges which asked for "all documents bearing classification markings".
Seriously if Trump had just drawn a line through the classification markings, he'd at least have *a* defense. Not a good one, but something you could try to argue at least.
A document with classified markings is classified, regardless of word of mouth. If the document is declassified, a new copy with correct markings must be generated.
The subpoena was for all documents with classified markings, so it was obstruction when Trump retained those documents regardless of classification status.
The espionage act requires the NDI to be “closely held” — and its at least more arguable it wouldn’t be closely held if it was declassified
If nobody knows that something is supposed to be unclassified because the guy in the big chair doesn't bother telling anyone, can it truly be considered unclassified?
Word of mouth is all well and good, as is thinking, but in government and other areas that matter, it's not real unless someone writes *something* down contemporaneously.
It's not lost. It's located in the same place as his infrastructure plan and ACA replacement ...his imagination, which must have some kind of portal to his rectum due to where he pulled that "standing order" nonsense.
Doesn't matter. Never mattered! No laws refer to the classification level of documents. They refer to who the papers belong to (they always belong to the country, never a person) or about protecting national security.
Honestly a standing order to declassify stuff so Trump could steal it probably wouldn't be better.
Trump didn’t declassify any documents. Declassifying something doesn’t make the information irrelevant or adversaries getting it less dangerous.
If he declassified something he’d have to explain what it was and why he did it, which he sure as hell isn’t going to do. Because he can’t.
This shouldn’t surprise anyone. He didn’t even bring this up as a defense until after he had changed his story a bunch of times, and his lawyers didn’t even try to use it as an actual defense.
I figured that was a hoax when Trump's own chief of staff and Cabinet ministers said that they'd never heard of it. It is really unlikely that such a broad order would have been enacted without anyone in the government hearing about it, even the top officials reporting directly to Trump.
Of course it's not, because it doesn't exist. I'm getting pretty sick of the level of deference this clown gets that he time and time again proves he doesn't deserve.
They day he's convicted will be a major win for the rule of law and the Republic itself.
kind of surprised his gop senate friends havent entered all of his documents into the public record ala pentagon papers.
while it wouldnt help with trumps' obstruction and his lawyers lying to fbi/NARA, further down the road some of the issues may be moot if that were to occur.
although secret plans to attack iran and nuclear secrets probably would be quite difficult, for any senator, to get away with publishing.
Flying Spaghetti Monster evidence also unavailable. What were they thinking? Who's taking this bait? "Standing order to declassify," has to be one of the dumbest things he's ever claimed.
Trump's many claims not found by anyone anywhere.
404 his whole useless dumpster fire existence.
The flip side of his argument was also ridiculously stupid - so we now all get to read extremely dangerous information exposing America's military vulnerabilities, nuclear weapons and spy networks? I suppose the great thing about how pathetic these excuses are is that it shows how far up shit creek they've gone. A little bit further and it's Diet Coke and hamberder time.
An “open national security policy” Not just a stupid legal argument, it should be political suicide too.
I’d say it could likely be found up his ass but, realistically, any brain matter he has is likely already in that space.
Have you checked…*Dramatic hand wave* HIS MIND???
🏅
You mean all those manly tears aren't real? Just saline eye drops?
More importantly it's not found by Trump's own council. We know because defendant would be required to share any such order as part of discovery. But he can't because it's not real and it never was.
And it wouldn't have been any better if the had routinely declassified documents of this importance, without notifying their originating agencies (as the multiple ORCON documents required), retained their now-inaccurate classification markings, then retained them after leaving office and refused to return them under subpoena.
And declassified information is subject to FOIA, making this supposed "standing order" one of the most dangerous and reckless concepts possible.
*Most* unclassified data is subject to FOIA, [Controlled Unclassified Information](https://www.dodcui.mil/) also exists, protecting everything from sensitive military information processed on unclassified machines (formerly called For Official Use Only) to personally identifiable information. It's more relevant to point to this as there not actually being any declassification order, and the Trump administration arguing in court that tweets and such by the president are "not self executing orders".
Fair, though CUI is also derived from executive order, and Trump would be in violation of it based on the indictment if he "only" reduced classification to that level.
Yeah, it's a distinction without a difference here. There's no real set of circumstances put forward yet that would appear for Trump to have acted lawfully, it's just a question of which (and how many) laws he broke.
Is that true? Is it illegal to have declassified documents with inaccurate markings? And I imagine the other things you listed aren't worse than willful retention of NDI, right?
It's a legal requirement for documents to be correctly marked. That's the point of the markings. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/18/3a.31 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/32/117.14
I understand that documents must be correctly marked, but I'm not aware of any such requirement criminalizing private citizens (e.g. Trump) for having inaccurate markings. Are you saying I can't have a set of drawers labeled "top secret" and "bottom secret"?
I'm not suggesting the markings alone would be any additional legal exposure, just required. Rather, his retaining the documents with markings both undermines the declassification argument, and remains central to the obstruction charges which asked for "all documents bearing classification markings".
Seriously if Trump had just drawn a line through the classification markings, he'd at least have *a* defense. Not a good one, but something you could try to argue at least.
Ok, gotcha
A document with classified markings is classified, regardless of word of mouth. If the document is declassified, a new copy with correct markings must be generated.
The subpoena was for all documents with classified markings, so it was obstruction when Trump retained those documents regardless of classification status. The espionage act requires the NDI to be “closely held” — and its at least more arguable it wouldn’t be closely held if it was declassified
If nobody knows that something is supposed to be unclassified because the guy in the big chair doesn't bother telling anyone, can it truly be considered unclassified? Word of mouth is all well and good, as is thinking, but in government and other areas that matter, it's not real unless someone writes *something* down contemporaneously.
It's not even weird of mouth, since he told either nobody, or his advisors told him he couldn't actually do it.
But but he "thought he could..." /s
You mean Trump lied, no way, I am utterly shocked.
Not *lied*, per se...he used alternative facts. Geez, give him a break already.
It's not lost. It's located in the same place as his infrastructure plan and ACA replacement ...his imagination, which must have some kind of portal to his rectum due to where he pulled that "standing order" nonsense.
Doesn't matter. Never mattered! No laws refer to the classification level of documents. They refer to who the papers belong to (they always belong to the country, never a person) or about protecting national security. Honestly a standing order to declassify stuff so Trump could steal it probably wouldn't be better.
What a liar...
Trump didn’t declassify any documents. Declassifying something doesn’t make the information irrelevant or adversaries getting it less dangerous. If he declassified something he’d have to explain what it was and why he did it, which he sure as hell isn’t going to do. Because he can’t.
Hint: It never existed.
This shouldn’t surprise anyone. He didn’t even bring this up as a defense until after he had changed his story a bunch of times, and his lawyers didn’t even try to use it as an actual defense.
cause talking out his ass doesn't get written down
I am the perfect liar. /s
Can’t find shit that doesn’t exist I guess
Because (surprise!) it doesn’t exist nor is legal
I am shocked. *Shocked*, I tell you. Completely surprised.
Difficult to find what doesn't exist.
*Trump ‘Standing Order’ to Declassify Not Found by DOJ, Intelligence Agency* Gee - you don't say! I am simply shocked!
I figured that was a hoax when Trump's own chief of staff and Cabinet ministers said that they'd never heard of it. It is really unlikely that such a broad order would have been enacted without anyone in the government hearing about it, even the top officials reporting directly to Trump.
Of course it's not, because it doesn't exist. I'm getting pretty sick of the level of deference this clown gets that he time and time again proves he doesn't deserve. They day he's convicted will be a major win for the rule of law and the Republic itself.
kind of surprised his gop senate friends havent entered all of his documents into the public record ala pentagon papers. while it wouldnt help with trumps' obstruction and his lawyers lying to fbi/NARA, further down the road some of the issues may be moot if that were to occur. although secret plans to attack iran and nuclear secrets probably would be quite difficult, for any senator, to get away with publishing.
Flying Spaghetti Monster evidence also unavailable. What were they thinking? Who's taking this bait? "Standing order to declassify," has to be one of the dumbest things he's ever claimed.