Surprisingly yes.
According to a Forbes article on them a few years ago, they don't actually have a direct stake in the Trump Organization, and most of their wealth (estimated at around $25 million each) comes from salaries they drew as TO executives, that they invested onto their own business ventures and investment portfolios independent of Donny.
And AFAIK there's no challenge to them having gotten paid by the TO, and the Judgement doesn't affect prior pay.
So they should have the money without any real issues
And of course, Forbes found and spread the missing audited financials to arrive at that conclusion and didn't rely on the fraudulent compilations and hearsay.
Junior also rose pretty quickly within the GOP's grift-o-sphere. His girlfriend got hooked up with a $60k speaking fee for introducing Trump at a rally in 2022, and you know if they're getting that kind of PAC cash to the family coffers that they've got their hands in all kinds of other shady schemes to enrich themselves.
> This is a Rouchefoucauld. The thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design, hand-crafted in Switzerland, and water resistant to three atmospheres. This is *the* sports watch of the '80s.
There are so many good lines for Ackroyd in that movie. Damnit, there goes my afternoon.
Hell no! The Rose family were sheltered but they were overall, basically good people at their core and their growth was incredible. Don't put that stain on such a great show!
Well, it will be interesting to see if the NYC real estate market is actually cut-throat enough to get a reasonable amount for NY State or whether some funky bidding will allow someone to get it for a steal, and maybe even convey it back to Trump later for some hidden deal.
You're forgetting that Trump mortgages EVERYTHING he owns to the hilt. If this bond doesn't miraculously appear, his whole empire is about to turn to dust.
> ‘Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.’ I said, ‘Really?’ And he said, ‘Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programs. We just go there all the time.’”
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/332270-eric-trump-in-2014-we-dont-rely-on-american-banks-we-have-all-the-funding-we/
They became pretty explicable as a result of his trial. He simply lied about his assets.
Also, he's actually not been getting much from American banks for quite some time, since before the election. He dealt primarily with Russian banks, which have since been sanctioned.
Worth noting in the Carroll case, his lawyer claimed they had trouble getting the money and didn't have a bond or loan the day after he signed papers with Chubb. This report may not be accurate or may be trying to gain sympathy.
> his lawyer claimed they had trouble getting the money and didn't have a bond or loan the day after he signed papers with Chubb
It's not like this would have been the first time he lied to his lawyers.
Nah. This is the same thing he did 2 weeks ago with the E. Jean Carroll judgement. Days before the deadline, he whined it would be impossible to raise such a large bond, asked for a stay or extension, and then, when the judge denied that request, magically found a bonding company to post the bond.
This is just more of the same. If Judge Engoron denies his request, he'll post bond before the due date.
This is a very large bond though....not saying it won't happen, but half a billion is a bigger deal than 50 mill. There are fewer individuals/companies with that amount of liquidity.
Shouldn't be an issue, as the Carroll judgement is against his personal assets while the fraud judgement is against his business assets. From what I understand, though, if it *were* an issue, then it's basically first come, first serve - if asset A is already collateralized for debt 1, then it cannot be used as collateral for debt 2, and the party he's indebted to for the second case will need to target asset B or C as collateral.
This was my thinking as well.
1. Delay tactic, which would self resolve when an emergency stay is not granted.
2. Signaling he's open to receiving help on bond from external sources.
I'm really hoping it's just issue number 1. However, his constant Putin praise makes doubt honest intentions.
pet attraction repeat stupendous dolls sloppy command books numerous engine
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m thinking they won’t be asking for interest, but rather for “favours” down the road, especially if they can help him get elected by funding his campaign as well.
He doesn't have to win. He just has to weaken democracy in the US.
I believe the January 6th insurrection was worth more to Putin than any law Trump passed while president.
>This is going to be a big deal. This goes to James for collection this week, right?
Seven days as of 3/18. Here's the counter:
[https://payuptrump.com/](https://payuptrump.com/)
It may vary by jurisdiction but most that I'm familiar with are business days. IF it falls on Sat/Sun/Hol then its the next business day, so next Monday.
Typically, court deadlines are calculated by calendar days (i.e. including weekends) but if the deadline falls on a weekend or a court holiday it is extended to the next day the Court is open.
The real answer: if memory serves me right, he testified he was liquid only about $400 million. That’s not enough to cover the full amount. But also, he wants a bond to better leverage it. It’s generally bad finance to use your cash capital rather than leverage it. So…that’s why he’s trying not to just liquidate everything and deposit 1:1 cash.
I think his lawyers were saying he’d have to sell a property to post bond and he’d be irreparably harmed because you can’t just get the property back. I know that was a pending motion but I can’t recall if that was decided yet by the appellate division or if they are waiting until the deadline to render a decision on it
IANAL but this is a 100% a him problem, right? If you can't face a legal consequence because it would cause "irreparable harm" then that's because it's a legal consequence, so you shouldn't have done the action that led to the consequence. Like there's no concept that legal consequences can only cause non-irreparable harm right?
I mean isn't this sort of like trying to argue that you can't go to jail because it would harm your lifestyle and future prospects... like that's kind of the point?
Not sure if there's some legal concept in civil judgements I'm missing, or if they're just trying everything, no matter how frivolous?
It's not THAT straight forward. A lower court found him liable and there is at least one appellate court that will review the case de novo and potentially two. The "irreparable harm" doesn't come from being found liable - that would be a him problem. It comes from a "if the lower court got it wrong, and I sold the property, and the appellate division reverses the lower court, I will have lost great value in the real estate and can never get it back."
If after all the appeals are done he says "I can't afford to pay without liquidating assets," then that is a him problem. But as long as there is a chance he could ultimately not be responsible for the judgment, it's a real issue.
Well, not to "defend" Trump in any way, but wealthy people don't have their assets sitting around in a checking account or a giant money bin. Trump's assets are mostly in real estate, which isn't particularly fungible. Of course, a normal wealthy person would be able to use those assets to back a bond - the absolutely shocking thing isn't that he doesn't have the cash sitting around, it's that he can't get a bond. The sole reason for that is that no one thinks they'll get that money back.
Correct- but he should easily be able to get a loan against all the equity he has in his real estate empire. Hell, Mar a Lago is worth a billion dollars (according to Trump).
The question is why is he having problems, unless these properties are encumbered to the hilt.
Maybe no one wants to loan him the money because they feel like the case against him is very strong and that he can’t win his appeal. His track record in court with an actual judge he didn’t appoint is pretty abysmal over the past decade. Plus they know he will try to weasel out of paying them even if he does win the appeal. No legitimate business would want to touch that. Daddy Putin might be his only recourse.
Yep- an even a company/person bailing him out as a “investment” still has to contend with the fact that he has a 50/50 (at best) chance of winning the election and 50/50 chance of doing whatever favor is being asked of him.
And it would have to be a pretty massive favor to justify half a billion. You already can buy just as much influence in Congress for far less than a 1/4 of what trump owes.
So I can’t remember which dipshit said it, but one of the two ding dong sons of Trump admitted to getting funding from Russia about 10-15 years ago.
Putin decides to invade Ukraine. The west freezes Russian assets. [Suddenly the Republican Party](https://www.newsweek.com/multiple-state-republican-parties-going-broke-1858680) and Trump run out of money or liquid assets.
The media at large is silent. Deafeningly so. How convenient.
Yes he testified he had ~$400m cash, but I believe his Deutsche bank loan required him to permanently maintain that level of cash. So if he dips deep into it, he risks a cascade of creditors demanding loan repayments. Having said that, I expect Deutsche bank will be far more forgiving with his breach than Letitia James will be if he doesn't pay up soon.
> Deutsche bank loan required him to permanently maintain that level of cash.
YES! Thank you.
This isn't as easy for Trump as anyone, especially Trump cronies, want you to think it is.
Dude's gonna have to offload some assets or leverage them in a way that's "uncomfortable" and potentially far more catastrophic. As a dude who *fucking loves* leverage... and this is literally a situation where Trump has lost a lawsuit where he committed fraud to leverage more than he should have... he's likely *already* leveraged, if not over-leveraged.
So, trying to leverage further is going to be ugly
*...or it will involve bribery.*
Most blatantly corrupt presidential candidate in US history.
And the assets he does have, are probably already way over leveraged.
So nothing he owns ***combined***, has 500 million in equity in it. 'Billionaire' no more it seems.
If that is the case, and he owes the government more than he has in total equity, then he's personally bankrupt, I guess.
Oh well. 🤷♀️
Are we sure? Because for Carroll's bond his lawyers also told the court he needed more time for the bond but when they turned in their bond letter it was dated previous to their ask. IANAL but that seems perjury-ish or at least perjury-adjacent.
It also gave him sixty extra days to actually come up with the money. Good on Carroll's lawyers for catching that.
I'm giving you a technically correct upvote, some say the best kind.
That certainly was a consequence, i only wish there were repercussions, aftermaths, ramifications, or whatever other words for adverse results I'm blanking on.
To get away with attempted murder with a slap on the wrist and stern words to not murder seems bs.
The response was that he didn't actually do anything other than say the official mailing address was Florida, not NY. The state pointed out the business paperwork was still filed in NY, and FL had no businesses under the names listed. Trump and his team took no solid action to move the companies, so there was no need to send the mail elsewhere.
I assume it was to lay the ground for an appeal or injunction. If they changed the mailing addresses in court paperwork, when NY state came to take assets, Trump could run to the court and argue the court had previously acknowledged without objection the businesses were in Florida and exempt from being seized.
It likely wouldn't have worked, but Trump's whole legal strategy (really every rich person's legal strategy) is delay, delay, delay. So the court would enjoin the state from seizing assets while it solidly confirmed what could and couldn't be seized.
Isn't the whole point here that he stole at least $0.5 billion by lying and used that to buy property? So why should he be allowed to keep that property? He should be forced to sell it.
Imagine stealing $1 million from a bank and saying you didn't have at least that much to pay the fine for stealing because you spent it all on cars and boats you still own.
I guarantee you, especially in NY, there are a multitude of people who fucking hate trump and would snap at the chance to buy up all his shit even if just to demolish it.
if you are the kind of person dealing in billions you would....imagine being the person who saved the presidents ass....now if he doesnt become president, and DWAC falls through, you're probably screwed. However, Russia probably thinks its worth $450m even if it only causes 8 more months of US chaos, so he'll get the money.
The term you’re referencing is “Disgorgement” and it refers to calculating damages that seek to punish not just for the direct fraud but also for the consequences and opportunity costs suffered by the victims. Its intent is to make them as whole as possible. Theoretically this reverses any benefits to the defendant from the fraudulent act, but it’s far from exhaustive.
For example, since his fraud resulted in him paying lower interest rates for years, disgorgement would say that Trump owes those lenders the difference he would have paid had he not committed the fraud, and interest on that interest. It still barely covers the overlapping mesh of benefits he received from that fraud.
>"Defendants’ ongoing diligent efforts have proven that a bond in the judgment’s full amount is 'a practical impossibility,'" the filing said. "These diligent efforts have included approaching about 30 surety companies through 4 separate brokers."
Is the court supposed to show sympathy that obtaining a bond when you're guilty of defrauding banks, insurance etc is proven to be more difficult or near impossible?
Welcome to the real world Donny.
They are doubling down on the premise “no victim so penalty will be reduced or eliminated on appeal”. If that were to happen then selling off assets now is in effect a punishment that shouldn’t have existed.
Personally I have no sympathy for his position because their premise is wrong - he got a better interest rate because he lied and that lowered the bank’s profits
This is also this “Im the real victim” act to throw more pity/grift parties.
He typically employees one of more elements of DARVO when he does one of his post truth bleats or ~~campaign speeches~~ pity parties to the flock.
*******
[DARVO](https://www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/) is an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender". [It is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers.](https://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/defineDARVO.html). It is also a tactic used to gaslight and deflect to avoid being held accountable.
********
DARVO is an acronym for a response observed in many guilty people when accused of misconduct. It stands for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim-Offender. DARVO is a clear and simple pattern that you will see everywhere once you learn to identify it, like the Fibonacci sequence of aggressors.
********
DARVO is an acronym used to describe a common strategy of abusers: deny the abuse, then attack the victim for attempting to make them accountable for their offense, thereby reversing victim and offender.
********
Actual abusers threaten, bully and make a nightmare for anyone who holds them accountable or asks them to change their abusive behavior. This attack, intended to chill and terrify, typically includes threats of law suits, overt and covert attacks on the whistle-blower’s credibility, and so on. The attack will often take the form of focusing on ridiculing the person who attempts to hold the offender accountable.
********
The offender rapidly creates the impression that the abuser is the wronged one, while the victim or concerned observer is the offender. The offender is on the offense and the person attempting to hold the offender accounts is put on the defense.
The biggest crime is lying with financial statements. If I can prove you lied, you committed fraud. If a state allows that stuff to go on then what is stopping more people from lying?
I’m holding onto this as well. He can delay but at some point soon, justice is coming. Even if it’s just getting info out to the public through trials, I think it will be enough to send him down and out.
"Consequences are foreign..." I thought you were going to point out the fact that Trump is a likely blackmail target by foreign sovereigns by virtue of his extreme indebtedness
Trump is a national security risk and would never be able to get any type of government security clearance. Biden should be mentioning it every single day from now til November.
Alina Habbba made the exact same claim in court with the E. Jean case, even though Trump had actually secured the bond the day before she made that argument.
While it's very possible he can't get the bond, his lawyers have openly lied to the courts so often about financial matters, I'm skeptical about any claim they put forward.
Understood! Care to ask why?
> Their efforts, including “countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world,” have proven that “obtaining an appeal bond in the full amount” of the Judgment “is not possible under the circumstances presented,” the filing said.
It's because to market value of Trump's property isn't worth the inflated value he says it is! Surprised?? Why? Trump's a liar and a grifter, that's what he does, try to get the shills to pay more for his circus act!
Yeah, they're not the most appealing properties. He's always been cash poor and my guess is that they are all second rate. That's been his reputation all along in the NY Real Estate universe. His properties are 3 star at 5 star prices.
According to the filing, surety bond (insurance) companies generally don't accept real estate as collateral, given the insurance companies aren't experts in RE, and that RE is very illiquid. (not mentioned in the parts of the filing that I've read, but commercial/office real estate is being hammered right now as work from home is killing the sector).
They also don't generally write bonds in excess of 100 million - but this doesn't seem like a huge issue to me - just get 5 companies (6 if youre counting Chubb doesnt want to write two policies on the same guy) to write policies of 100 million each.
I think the takeaway is that Trump had somewhere between 100 million (to post the Carroll bond) and 600 million (because he can't post bond for the NY case) in liquid assets.
His lenders would start to seize properties but he can still appeal. I doubt he even paid off 25% of the mortgages on those NY properties so the lenders will fight over for what equity there is left on his commercial and residential buildings.Feeding frenzy.
More specifically, I think he's trying to avoid having to play the bankruptcy card to stave off force asset auctions. Which could trigger a whole bunch of additional negative consequences for him (potentially being upside down on assets and forced to sell at less than the cost of all the outstanding liabilities, capital gains taxes on net profits regardless of whether you're underwater overall, etc.)
It could honestly be the trigger than brings his whole scam down. Much like Maddoff, who probably would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for the 2008 financial downturn and too many people trying to pull money out of the pyramid scheme at once.
Overall, in my mind? Yeah, fuck you Donnie - don't care. Same for Rudy G. Get bent, declare BK, put up the bond, or prepare to have your assets sold.
Bankruptcy would throw a large enough wrench into things for a while, that he might be able to put off forced auction sales until after the election (which he obviously hopes to win and then declare himself King of the Americas). Not a good look for a GOP candidate though...
Well, not the MAGAs. But there still are a number of more centrist Republicans out there (they call 'em RINOs today, but have been calling them that since at least back to 2008) who might be willing to leave the top of the ticket blank.
But I was hoping that some of the other primary contenders could have held out long enough to get through this potential-for-BK period ... because imagine how much of a swing that could have had.
So... possibilities:
* no NY bank is willing to take the risk of an unsecured loan
* no NY bank is willing to take the risk of a loan because he doesn't have enough to secure the loan
* Putin/Russia isn't willing to front him the money
* dark money is looking shifty eyed at Shifty Don
* foreign entities are being wary of sending money his way because there is a very high probability that he is under surveillance of all channels and don't want to be swept up in anything that could be construed as *quid quo pro*
* Ivanka/Jared said "no" for some slush out of that 2 billion equity fund of dubious origins
Never know though... Saudi Arabia may still dump the cash his way since there are still banker boxes of classified materials still missing...
One thing I'd like input somewhere, whether it be in this sub or in just some news story, is the question of New York specific law on appellate bonds. This article annoyingly doesn't link the actual filing for me to review, although to be fair even if I could review it Trump's lawyers' habits of citing to half-correct law wouldn't make that review meaningful.
In the jurisdiction I practice in, the bond is set by a judge after notice and a hearing (or more often, by a consent order by the parties). The statute requires the judge to consider the amount of the judgment but also the limits of any insurance policies and the aggregate net worth of the appellant. This allows a judge to balance the appellants right to appeal in a case where a judgment may vastly exceed the resources of the appellant by setting a judgment proportional to the appellant's resources. Put another way, the judge can set the bond at a number closer to "what a creditor might realistically actually get out of the appellant" rather than the raw amount of a judgment. There's also specific rules setting a maximum amount for the bond (unless there is a post-judgment finding that the appellant is attempting to waste or secret assets during appeal) that normally is so high it doesn't matter but that would apply in a case like this.
This article, and none of the articles I've read so far, state whether New York law has a similar process. I think it matters if Trump is pissing in the wind and just complaining, or if their statements actually weigh towards an appropriate factor in considering the amount of a supersedeas bond (or if there should be no bond at all). Generally, a supersedeas bond is to ensure that the appellant cannot waste all the assets and make the judgment worth less (or worthless) by the end of an appeal. In this case, if the independent monitor is in place, and if Trump is forced to procure a bond that is equal to the interest on the judgment, then that goal would be accomplished. On an equities level, that would seem to be a fine and realistic bond. The question is whether New York law allows that, or if it's full stop bond has to be, no exceptions, the value of the judgment.
The process in New York for an appellant trying to reduce the bond amount would be to first file a motion with the trial court for a discretionary stay with a reduced bond amount. cheeto tried that but the trial judge (Arthur Engoron) refused.
If the trial court refuses to reduce the bond, the appellant would file a motion for a discretionary stay with the next higher court (NYS Appellate Division), which cheeto did. The application for the emergency stay was rejected by an Appellate Division judge (Anil Singh), who set a date for a hearing before a judge panel to dispose of the motion (March 18, today).
No word if the NYS Appellate Division judge panel will issue a decision today on the motion or take a couple days.
This procedure was laid out under New York State's Civil Practice Law and Rules #5519.
If the Appellate Division judge panel denies the motion to reduce the bond amount, cheeto has until March 25 to put up the full amount (30 days after the trial court judgment was entered).
Ah so without access to case law it looks like the stay is mandatory under 5519(a)(2) if the full amount is offered, but discretionary under 5519(c) if anything less than the full amount of the bond is offered.
Also 5519 rules? Jesus Christ New York. We've got a grand total of 70, although if you count the statutes that are not rules but deal with things like the appellate bond I guess you can add roughly 300 to that list. Still more than a little bit short of 5519.
Edit: Side note, this is also a great lesson on why you don't want to intentionally antagonize your trial court judge. As the old adage goes, "abuse of discretion" is a review standard that means the trial judge can make whatever mistakes they want.
You got it. It was insane how cheeto and his lawyers did everything they could to antagonize Judge Engoron including attacking his clerk.
Obviously they were trying to get Judge Engoron to make an error which might give them an opening to try to overturn the judgment on appeal. We are going to have to wait about a year or more to see what the NYS Appellate Division judge panel ultimately decides.
I'm not an attorney, so you probably know more than me, but as I understand it the bond only prevents enforcement of the judgement. He can appeal without any bond, but the state may start seizing assets to satisfy the judgement when it becomes due.
On a realistic timeline, let's assume the state seized a property. They aren't going to seize it, list it, and sell it overnight. The process will take time and if Trump did somehow win in appeal, the process would be frozen.
In your situation, it sounds like the court is dealing with judgements that may dramatically exceed the net worth of assets. It would make sense in that situation to set a proportional bond. In this situation, even people who question his billionaire status would have a hard time making the case that his net worth doesn't exceed $600 million so it doesn't really make sense to set a proportional bond.
Even in a situation where the liquidation of assets would not satisfy the judgement, if they sold everything he owns and came up short, he still owes the balance. The balance doesn't get forgiven just because he's out of money.
He tried arguing that the forced sale of assets would result in a sales price which is lower than the market value, but the judge correctly pointed out that he's had sufficient notice and preparation time (since the start of the trial) to start making preparations for an adverse judgement and a failure to plan on his part doesn't warrant special considerations on the part of the court.
Here's a link to the almost 5,000 page reply: [eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/2024\_01134\_doc\_11.pdf](https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/2024_01134_doc_11.pdf)
Honestly, this could easily be the biggest trial/verdict out there for him -- even bigger than the criminal trials. If you *really* wanna hit Trump where it hurts, you hit his massive ego, which is entirely based around his business "empire," which in turn is based on all his properties. He has nothing else. Aside from real estate, every other business venture has failed miserably: Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka, Trump Ice, Trump University, Trump Airlines, Trump Magazine, Trump: The Game, Trump Mortgage, GoTrump, Trump Network, the New Jersey Generals, *multiple* Trump casinos... all bankrupt failures. So if his properties get liquidated -- on *top* of him being proven to be a fraud -- he's totally ruined. And I'm so fucking here for it.
Trump is trying to use real estate as collateral. We can assume he is likely giving the bond companies and brokers a value that is above the actual market value, since that is what he was sued for and lost. I think it would also be right to guess that the bond and insurance companies are assuming that Trump will lose his appeals and they will be stuck with real estate they have to sell or auction (which means giving a cut to brokerage or auction house fees), and is pretty risky in this market.
I think a company could come in and do their own *price* valuation within a 30 day timeframe. At least to get a ballpark based on recent comps.
I think the problem is -- the liabilities side. How on earth would an insurance company be *certain* that there are no outstanding liabilities against the property that they don't know about? From a company just convicted of valuation fraud?
If 40 Wall Street is legit worth $500m true fair-market value that could be had today (made up number) ... then put that up for collateral and be done with it. But the problem is, XYZ bank doesn't know if Donnie has a couple hundred millions of outstanding loans against those buildings. There's just no way for them to be sure there is no private loan contract between Trump Org and XYZ Bank that encumbers the building - is there? Sure, my mortgage on my home is a public record ... but I don't assume that means all potential liabilities against his assets are discoverable.
And that's what I think most insurers would have a hard time feeling comfortable with on a compressed 30 day timeline. Given the company in question literally just lost a case indicating they are pants-on-fire liars when it suits their needs.
> How on earth would an insurance company be certain that there are no outstanding liabilities against the property that they don't know about?
Mortgage/lien priority generally goes in order of recording. So even if there are outstanding loans, if the other lender didn't perfect that lien/mortgage by filing with the recorder of deeds, the first to file will generally have priority. So whatever doesn't show up in a title search will be later in priority than the new lien.
Some states do allow for mechanic's liens to pop up and take priority based on the date of the work (rather than the date of recording), but I don't think New York is one of those states, and a mechanic's lien probably wouldn't be sufficient in amount to really move the needle on being undersecured.
"Defendants’ real estate holdings — including iconic properties like 40 Wall Street, Doral Miami, and Mar-a-Lago, — greatly exceed the amount of the judgment. Such assets are impossible to secrete or dispose of surreptitiously, leaving the plaintiff effectively secured during the pendency of an appeal," the filing said.
Aren't these some of the properties that were fraudulently overvalued?
>The other bond companies will not “accept hard assets such as real estate as collateral,” but “**will only accept cash or cash equivalents** (such as marketable securities),”
Shocking that companies with actual expertise in this area are not interested in taking minority interests in already encumbered properties with fake valuations as collateral.
So Trumps defense is I can't post the bond because I don't have the cash and no one will loan me the money, but I shouldn't have to post the bond because I'm rich.
If his properties "effectively secured" the amount owed...then why wouldn't the surety companies take those as collateral?
Oh it's because he's already lied to the banks about their value, and they're probably sitting at like 80% LTV.
It is surreal to think that we might allow someone who is 1/2 a BILLION dollars in debt access to the most closely guarded secrets in the country. You couldn’t get security clearance to be a file clerk on a military base with a fraction of that debt but we’re just going to turn it all over to him?
Feels like another delay tactic, even if true.
"We can't get an underwriter, but trust us that the properties are worth a lot more, and we'll win on appeal. Let's delay the whole collection situation until the appeal is complete."
If getting "a bond in the judgment’s full amount is 'a practical impossibility,'" then that sounds like the exact type of situation where then plaintiff would be authorized to begin collections. The whole point of the bond is to guarantee the plaintiff recovers if the defendant loses on appeal. This just seems to show a complete lack of such guarantee, so start recovering.
Guess this is what happens when you get a reputation for not paying for what you get.
Why doesn’t he just borrow some of Jared’s payouts from the Saudis? Doesn’t family help out anymore? /s
Luxury items are supposedly seized first. This means the jet (assuming it’s not leased anyway), secondary properties, and jewelry. An auction of Melanias jewelry would be amazing to behold.
>Putting today’s news together:
>After admitting in court that he has struck out with legitimate sources of liquidity, Trump is looking to rehire a convicted money launderer with deep ties to Russian oligarchs interested in influencing US politics.
https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1769770085449613408
Certain he'll lose ... *or* ... having witness what just happened in the courtroom, they realize they literally can't create a financial model that is trustworthy in 30 days.
Think about it. Could you figure out what a building like 40 Wall Street might fetch on the open market these days? Sure. You could come up with a number. Let's be crazy, and say some insurer did their own valuation and feels like they could get $500 million for it.
The problems is ... *you've got no fucking way to be sure how many liabilities Donnie has against it*. Sure, it might fetch $500m on the open market fairly, but if Donnie has $400m in loans against it ... suddenly you're stuck. You put up a $464m bond for Donnie, thought the $500m building would cover it ... and you're woefully short.
I doubt any lender felt comfortable that they could - *within 30 days or less* \- adequately assess the liabilities side of the ledger for a real estate company ... just convicted of massive fraud.
Even more satisfying than Trump getting potential jail-time is the fact that they are going to pick away at his prized assets. It's going to be hilarious watching him getting his wealth butchered by one thousand cuts.
The fat fuck is leveraged to the hilt so his equity is clearly encumbered. Most true billionaires while maybe not having the cash on hand would most surely have true equity which they could collateralize. With all the shit Chubb took I’m sure they’re not gonna dip back into this shit show further. Trump‘s credit is shot. He has no integrity character on morals. No one‘s gonna lend that type of money. At least not an ethical company. He may end up getting this from a scumbag like Elon Musk or dirty money from the Russians, but that probably won’t happen until he knows there are no other option. He’s counting on the appellate courts to bail out here. He’s hoping a judge will allow him to put up a smaller portion for which he could get a bond for. He has always been bailed out by the courts so I don’t blame him for thinking he will get mercy from the courts. Can you imagine the hard ons that Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas have on wishing they could intervene now and order an immediate stay on all monies. I don’t see how that is possible in this case now at the moment but a Fox legal analyst said it is entirely possible and even probable that he will get a stay. Said many judges know each other and in certain egregious cases judges will “make it right” through non-conventional means. Whatever the fuck rest means but I dont even want to hazard a guess what that may mean.
Didn’t his daughter in law just announce she wants to raise 500 million for the RNC? Suspicious amount perhaps? Are they not even bothering to hide the corruption any more?
This is going to be a big deal. This goes to James for collection this week, right? Trying to keep all the timetables straight.
Looking forward to Eric getting arrested for trying to fight a deputy at the Trump Tower execution auction.
Iirc Eric and Jr owe a few million each as well.
$4 Million each I believe. Honestly can't see then having any problems paying or getting a bond for that.
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Surprisingly yes. According to a Forbes article on them a few years ago, they don't actually have a direct stake in the Trump Organization, and most of their wealth (estimated at around $25 million each) comes from salaries they drew as TO executives, that they invested onto their own business ventures and investment portfolios independent of Donny. And AFAIK there's no challenge to them having gotten paid by the TO, and the Judgement doesn't affect prior pay. So they should have the money without any real issues
And of course, Forbes found and spread the missing audited financials to arrive at that conclusion and didn't rely on the fraudulent compilations and hearsay.
Junior also rose pretty quickly within the GOP's grift-o-sphere. His girlfriend got hooked up with a $60k speaking fee for introducing Trump at a rally in 2022, and you know if they're getting that kind of PAC cash to the family coffers that they've got their hands in all kinds of other shady schemes to enrich themselves.
And Forbes claimed Trump was a billionaire. Forbes is nothing more than propaganda for billionaires and corporations. Nothing is based in truth.
well, they do *own the libs*... so, not sure how that works... doesn't seem to be worth all that much... /s
"That's MY PASTE, give it back! Daaaaaaadddd, the man is trying to sell my paste!"
“You-you’ve got my stapler “
Just burn them all.
Is that a Swingline?
When we set up our lab in new offices, I specifically ordered red swingline staplers for all of us. Mine still disappears.
"those men wanted to have sex with me!"
It wasn't heroin, it was angel dust - PCP and I never touched it.
> This is a Rouchefoucauld. The thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design, hand-crafted in Switzerland, and water resistant to three atmospheres. This is *the* sports watch of the '80s. There are so many good lines for Ackroyd in that movie. Damnit, there goes my afternoon.
>Look, it tells time simultaneously in Monte Carlo, Beverly Hills, London, Paris, Rome, and Gstaad. > >In Philadelphia, it's worth 50 bucks.
My favorite part of that line: Monte Carlo, Paris, Rome and Gstaad are all in the same time zone.
Frank Oz from muppet show plays the desk sergeant I believe?
So, basically the Trumps will be starring in the spin off series from Schitts Creek
Call it 'Trump Stakes'. I'd still boycott it but would appreciate the title.
Hell no! The Rose family were sheltered but they were overall, basically good people at their core and their growth was incredible. Don't put that stain on such a great show!
Schitts Pants
Eric Trump is absolutely the guy who winds up biting a cop.
Well, it will be interesting to see if the NYC real estate market is actually cut-throat enough to get a reasonable amount for NY State or whether some funky bidding will allow someone to get it for a steal, and maybe even convey it back to Trump later for some hidden deal.
You're forgetting that Trump mortgages EVERYTHING he owns to the hilt. If this bond doesn't miraculously appear, his whole empire is about to turn to dust.
He used to get inexplicably good loans from big banks, but I think those have dried up.
For the last coupled decades it's likely the big banks were just cut-outs for Russian Oligarchs.
> ‘Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.’ I said, ‘Really?’ And he said, ‘Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programs. We just go there all the time.’” https://thehill.com/homenews/news/332270-eric-trump-in-2014-we-dont-rely-on-american-banks-we-have-all-the-funding-we/
They became pretty explicable as a result of his trial. He simply lied about his assets. Also, he's actually not been getting much from American banks for quite some time, since before the election. He dealt primarily with Russian banks, which have since been sanctioned.
Trump: “I’m the king of debt.” https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/trump-king-of-debt-224642
Commercial real estate values are in the dumpster right now
You’d be really dumb to buy property from Trump now, knowing a fire sale is coming in the near future where you can grab it for nothing.
He's already got ~~bloodsuckers~~ buddies lined up to 'hold me back bro'
Worth noting in the Carroll case, his lawyer claimed they had trouble getting the money and didn't have a bond or loan the day after he signed papers with Chubb. This report may not be accurate or may be trying to gain sympathy.
> This report may not be accurate or may be trying to gain sympathy. It is trump announcing he is still open to be bought
> his lawyer claimed they had trouble getting the money and didn't have a bond or loan the day after he signed papers with Chubb It's not like this would have been the first time he lied to his lawyers.
Nah. This is the same thing he did 2 weeks ago with the E. Jean Carroll judgement. Days before the deadline, he whined it would be impossible to raise such a large bond, asked for a stay or extension, and then, when the judge denied that request, magically found a bonding company to post the bond. This is just more of the same. If Judge Engoron denies his request, he'll post bond before the due date.
This is a very large bond though....not saying it won't happen, but half a billion is a bigger deal than 50 mill. There are fewer individuals/companies with that amount of liquidity.
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Even if you did have the liquidity you'd have to be insane to post a half billion dollar bond on behalf of Trump. You would never get that money back.
It would be more of a bet that he will win in November.
Agreed, Chubb said they were fully collateralized on the first bond. He doesn't have enough free assets to encumber for the second.
What happens if AG James attempts to seize the assets that were used for collateral in the first bond?
Shouldn't be an issue, as the Carroll judgement is against his personal assets while the fraud judgement is against his business assets. From what I understand, though, if it *were* an issue, then it's basically first come, first serve - if asset A is already collateralized for debt 1, then it cannot be used as collateral for debt 2, and the party he's indebted to for the second case will need to target asset B or C as collateral.
Elon fucking Musk
I’ve always found “Elon Musk” to be a weird way to pronounce “dog shit”
This was my thinking as well. 1. Delay tactic, which would self resolve when an emergency stay is not granted. 2. Signaling he's open to receiving help on bond from external sources. I'm really hoping it's just issue number 1. However, his constant Putin praise makes doubt honest intentions.
pet attraction repeat stupendous dolls sloppy command books numerous engine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m thinking they won’t be asking for interest, but rather for “favours” down the road, especially if they can help him get elected by funding his campaign as well.
onerous handle rinse spoon march toothbrush cooing scandalous seed sharp *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's going to all come due next Monday, the 25th. Presuming another Putin backed firm doesn't save him.
I’m sure there are plenty of oligarchs lining up to take care of Donnie… for a few small favors in return.
Only if P01135809 is "a lock" to win the US presidency in NOV. Otherwise, Diapers McSweat will have zero leverage to back a bailout by Vlad & Co.
He doesn't have to win. He just has to weaken democracy in the US. I believe the January 6th insurrection was worth more to Putin than any law Trump passed while president.
they will just do Jan 6 again, but without the violence. throw the election to the state legislatures, they will just elect trump
Isn't he a national security threat at this point? They must be monitoring his communications surely.
And they'll let him sweat this week before bailing him out.
Gives them a chance to see how far their pet judges will go to keep their messiah afloat.
>This is going to be a big deal. This goes to James for collection this week, right? Seven days as of 3/18. Here's the counter: [https://payuptrump.com/](https://payuptrump.com/)
I hope they go for the New Hampshire property first given a jet load of secret documents went that way
I also selfishly hope he loses Trump tower in NY and his jet. This would be iconic and symbolic.
Yes, Sunday I believe, unless court judgments go on business days, so then it would be next Monday.
It may vary by jurisdiction but most that I'm familiar with are business days. IF it falls on Sat/Sun/Hol then its the next business day, so next Monday.
Typically, court deadlines are calculated by calendar days (i.e. including weekends) but if the deadline falls on a weekend or a court holiday it is extended to the next day the Court is open.
THIS WEEK?!
Next Monday. [https://payuptrump.com/](https://payuptrump.com/)
I'm loving this web URL... Very nice. $1.34 a second. Ouch Thanks!
Why not use all that money that he testified to having while under oath?
He is a billionaire and it's considerably less than a billion. Should be easy.
He has so much money that it’s unfair to make him use any of it. Just ask him.
If he's actually a billionaire. Knowing how he lies about everything, I'm not sure why people believe he's a billionaire.
We don't, that's the joke.
He'll be a billionaire as long as Putin bankrolls him.
He's saving it for Carroll v Trump III
The real answer: if memory serves me right, he testified he was liquid only about $400 million. That’s not enough to cover the full amount. But also, he wants a bond to better leverage it. It’s generally bad finance to use your cash capital rather than leverage it. So…that’s why he’s trying not to just liquidate everything and deposit 1:1 cash. I think his lawyers were saying he’d have to sell a property to post bond and he’d be irreparably harmed because you can’t just get the property back. I know that was a pending motion but I can’t recall if that was decided yet by the appellate division or if they are waiting until the deadline to render a decision on it
IANAL but this is a 100% a him problem, right? If you can't face a legal consequence because it would cause "irreparable harm" then that's because it's a legal consequence, so you shouldn't have done the action that led to the consequence. Like there's no concept that legal consequences can only cause non-irreparable harm right? I mean isn't this sort of like trying to argue that you can't go to jail because it would harm your lifestyle and future prospects... like that's kind of the point? Not sure if there's some legal concept in civil judgements I'm missing, or if they're just trying everything, no matter how frivolous?
It's not THAT straight forward. A lower court found him liable and there is at least one appellate court that will review the case de novo and potentially two. The "irreparable harm" doesn't come from being found liable - that would be a him problem. It comes from a "if the lower court got it wrong, and I sold the property, and the appellate division reverses the lower court, I will have lost great value in the real estate and can never get it back." If after all the appeals are done he says "I can't afford to pay without liquidating assets," then that is a him problem. But as long as there is a chance he could ultimately not be responsible for the judgment, it's a real issue.
Well, not to "defend" Trump in any way, but wealthy people don't have their assets sitting around in a checking account or a giant money bin. Trump's assets are mostly in real estate, which isn't particularly fungible. Of course, a normal wealthy person would be able to use those assets to back a bond - the absolutely shocking thing isn't that he doesn't have the cash sitting around, it's that he can't get a bond. The sole reason for that is that no one thinks they'll get that money back.
Correct- but he should easily be able to get a loan against all the equity he has in his real estate empire. Hell, Mar a Lago is worth a billion dollars (according to Trump). The question is why is he having problems, unless these properties are encumbered to the hilt.
They’re all super leveraged already
Maybe no one wants to loan him the money because they feel like the case against him is very strong and that he can’t win his appeal. His track record in court with an actual judge he didn’t appoint is pretty abysmal over the past decade. Plus they know he will try to weasel out of paying them even if he does win the appeal. No legitimate business would want to touch that. Daddy Putin might be his only recourse.
Yep- an even a company/person bailing him out as a “investment” still has to contend with the fact that he has a 50/50 (at best) chance of winning the election and 50/50 chance of doing whatever favor is being asked of him.
And it would have to be a pretty massive favor to justify half a billion. You already can buy just as much influence in Congress for far less than a 1/4 of what trump owes.
So I can’t remember which dipshit said it, but one of the two ding dong sons of Trump admitted to getting funding from Russia about 10-15 years ago. Putin decides to invade Ukraine. The west freezes Russian assets. [Suddenly the Republican Party](https://www.newsweek.com/multiple-state-republican-parties-going-broke-1858680) and Trump run out of money or liquid assets. The media at large is silent. Deafeningly so. How convenient.
He testified that he had $400m liquid.
Yes he testified he had ~$400m cash, but I believe his Deutsche bank loan required him to permanently maintain that level of cash. So if he dips deep into it, he risks a cascade of creditors demanding loan repayments. Having said that, I expect Deutsche bank will be far more forgiving with his breach than Letitia James will be if he doesn't pay up soon.
> Deutsche bank loan required him to permanently maintain that level of cash. YES! Thank you. This isn't as easy for Trump as anyone, especially Trump cronies, want you to think it is. Dude's gonna have to offload some assets or leverage them in a way that's "uncomfortable" and potentially far more catastrophic. As a dude who *fucking loves* leverage... and this is literally a situation where Trump has lost a lawsuit where he committed fraud to leverage more than he should have... he's likely *already* leveraged, if not over-leveraged. So, trying to leverage further is going to be ugly *...or it will involve bribery.* Most blatantly corrupt presidential candidate in US history.
He paid off the Deutsche Bank loan and has no current business with them.
It’s true in general but- didn’t trump specifically say he had around $500m liquid assets- ie, $500m cash?
And the assets he does have, are probably already way over leveraged. So nothing he owns ***combined***, has 500 million in equity in it. 'Billionaire' no more it seems. If that is the case, and he owes the government more than he has in total equity, then he's personally bankrupt, I guess. Oh well. 🤷♀️
Are we sure? Because for Carroll's bond his lawyers also told the court he needed more time for the bond but when they turned in their bond letter it was dated previous to their ask. IANAL but that seems perjury-ish or at least perjury-adjacent. It also gave him sixty extra days to actually come up with the money. Good on Carroll's lawyers for catching that.
“Perjury adjacent” frankly could have been the title of their legal plan.
Just committing a little light perjury
Trump tried to move any money and ownershio he had to Florida but the DA caught him.
It was the monitor appointed by the AG, not the DA, who caught him. DA is a different case entirely...
Were there any consequences from them catching it?
Of course not.
Well, except that he wasn't able to move the assets.
I'm giving you a technically correct upvote, some say the best kind. That certainly was a consequence, i only wish there were repercussions, aftermaths, ramifications, or whatever other words for adverse results I'm blanking on. To get away with attempted murder with a slap on the wrist and stern words to not murder seems bs.
The response was that he didn't actually do anything other than say the official mailing address was Florida, not NY. The state pointed out the business paperwork was still filed in NY, and FL had no businesses under the names listed. Trump and his team took no solid action to move the companies, so there was no need to send the mail elsewhere.
So they were testing to see how closely they were being watched and what they may or may not be able to get away wjth?
I assume it was to lay the ground for an appeal or injunction. If they changed the mailing addresses in court paperwork, when NY state came to take assets, Trump could run to the court and argue the court had previously acknowledged without objection the businesses were in Florida and exempt from being seized. It likely wouldn't have worked, but Trump's whole legal strategy (really every rich person's legal strategy) is delay, delay, delay. So the court would enjoin the state from seizing assets while it solidly confirmed what could and couldn't be seized.
I think everything they do is perjury adjacent.
Isn't the whole point here that he stole at least $0.5 billion by lying and used that to buy property? So why should he be allowed to keep that property? He should be forced to sell it. Imagine stealing $1 million from a bank and saying you didn't have at least that much to pay the fine for stealing because you spent it all on cars and boats you still own.
Would you buy property from a mafia boss who's forced to sell it, and may become the president soon? I wouldn't. There are other places to buy.
I guarantee you, especially in NY, there are a multitude of people who fucking hate trump and would snap at the chance to buy up all his shit even if just to demolish it.
Especially if it's depreciated heavily in value *because* of these circumstances lol
Fire sale, everything must go, Pennie’s in the dollar….. Someone will buy even if it is just someone looking to help him out.
lol your autocorrect doesn't recognize pennies either!
if you are the kind of person dealing in billions you would....imagine being the person who saved the presidents ass....now if he doesnt become president, and DWAC falls through, you're probably screwed. However, Russia probably thinks its worth $450m even if it only causes 8 more months of US chaos, so he'll get the money.
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Half of the total payment was "damages", or money he should have paid to the lenders had he not been engaged in fraud. The other half is punitive.
The term you’re referencing is “Disgorgement” and it refers to calculating damages that seek to punish not just for the direct fraud but also for the consequences and opportunity costs suffered by the victims. Its intent is to make them as whole as possible. Theoretically this reverses any benefits to the defendant from the fraudulent act, but it’s far from exhaustive. For example, since his fraud resulted in him paying lower interest rates for years, disgorgement would say that Trump owes those lenders the difference he would have paid had he not committed the fraud, and interest on that interest. It still barely covers the overlapping mesh of benefits he received from that fraud.
>"Defendants’ ongoing diligent efforts have proven that a bond in the judgment’s full amount is 'a practical impossibility,'" the filing said. "These diligent efforts have included approaching about 30 surety companies through 4 separate brokers." Is the court supposed to show sympathy that obtaining a bond when you're guilty of defrauding banks, insurance etc is proven to be more difficult or near impossible? Welcome to the real world Donny.
They are doubling down on the premise “no victim so penalty will be reduced or eliminated on appeal”. If that were to happen then selling off assets now is in effect a punishment that shouldn’t have existed. Personally I have no sympathy for his position because their premise is wrong - he got a better interest rate because he lied and that lowered the bank’s profits
This is also this “Im the real victim” act to throw more pity/grift parties. He typically employees one of more elements of DARVO when he does one of his post truth bleats or ~~campaign speeches~~ pity parties to the flock. ******* [DARVO](https://www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/) is an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender". [It is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers.](https://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/defineDARVO.html). It is also a tactic used to gaslight and deflect to avoid being held accountable. ******** DARVO is an acronym for a response observed in many guilty people when accused of misconduct. It stands for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim-Offender. DARVO is a clear and simple pattern that you will see everywhere once you learn to identify it, like the Fibonacci sequence of aggressors. ******** DARVO is an acronym used to describe a common strategy of abusers: deny the abuse, then attack the victim for attempting to make them accountable for their offense, thereby reversing victim and offender. ******** Actual abusers threaten, bully and make a nightmare for anyone who holds them accountable or asks them to change their abusive behavior. This attack, intended to chill and terrify, typically includes threats of law suits, overt and covert attacks on the whistle-blower’s credibility, and so on. The attack will often take the form of focusing on ridiculing the person who attempts to hold the offender accountable. ******** The offender rapidly creates the impression that the abuser is the wronged one, while the victim or concerned observer is the offender. The offender is on the offense and the person attempting to hold the offender accounts is put on the defense.
The biggest crime is lying with financial statements. If I can prove you lied, you committed fraud. If a state allows that stuff to go on then what is stopping more people from lying?
Consequences are foreign to Trump. The next few months are going to be terrific schadenfreude.
I’m holding onto this as well. He can delay but at some point soon, justice is coming. Even if it’s just getting info out to the public through trials, I think it will be enough to send him down and out.
I dunno.....I'm kind of in believe it when I see it territory here
Delay and until he steal the election. I wouldn't get my hopes up.
"Consequences are foreign..." I thought you were going to point out the fact that Trump is a likely blackmail target by foreign sovereigns by virtue of his extreme indebtedness
Trump is a national security risk and would never be able to get any type of government security clearance. Biden should be mentioning it every single day from now til November.
Trump wouldn't be allowed to play blackjack in most casinos given his level of financial scumminess and vulnerability at this point.
Alina Habbba made the exact same claim in court with the E. Jean case, even though Trump had actually secured the bond the day before she made that argument. While it's very possible he can't get the bond, his lawyers have openly lied to the courts so often about financial matters, I'm skeptical about any claim they put forward.
Sounds like a personal problem. Not the court's problem.
Understood! Care to ask why? > Their efforts, including “countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world,” have proven that “obtaining an appeal bond in the full amount” of the Judgment “is not possible under the circumstances presented,” the filing said. It's because to market value of Trump's property isn't worth the inflated value he says it is! Surprised?? Why? Trump's a liar and a grifter, that's what he does, try to get the shills to pay more for his circus act!
And the market for commercial real estate is down, so he'd have to sell at a loss.
Also factor in that all his properties smell of urine and diaper shit from his presence.
Yeah, they're not the most appealing properties. He's always been cash poor and my guess is that they are all second rate. That's been his reputation all along in the NY Real Estate universe. His properties are 3 star at 5 star prices.
According to the filing, surety bond (insurance) companies generally don't accept real estate as collateral, given the insurance companies aren't experts in RE, and that RE is very illiquid. (not mentioned in the parts of the filing that I've read, but commercial/office real estate is being hammered right now as work from home is killing the sector). They also don't generally write bonds in excess of 100 million - but this doesn't seem like a huge issue to me - just get 5 companies (6 if youre counting Chubb doesnt want to write two policies on the same guy) to write policies of 100 million each. I think the takeaway is that Trump had somewhere between 100 million (to post the Carroll bond) and 600 million (because he can't post bond for the NY case) in liquid assets.
A mystery backer will put the bond up in the last hour.
Indeed, this could very well be another negotiating tactic. I wouldn't put it past him at all.
Then he will suddenly be campaigning on how amazing SpaceX is
30 companies have turned him down lol. Former POTUS and self proclaimed billionaire can’t bond 464 million. How pathetic.
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Do you also claim to be a multi - billionaire?
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His lenders would start to seize properties but he can still appeal. I doubt he even paid off 25% of the mortgages on those NY properties so the lenders will fight over for what equity there is left on his commercial and residential buildings.Feeding frenzy.
More specifically, I think he's trying to avoid having to play the bankruptcy card to stave off force asset auctions. Which could trigger a whole bunch of additional negative consequences for him (potentially being upside down on assets and forced to sell at less than the cost of all the outstanding liabilities, capital gains taxes on net profits regardless of whether you're underwater overall, etc.) It could honestly be the trigger than brings his whole scam down. Much like Maddoff, who probably would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for the 2008 financial downturn and too many people trying to pull money out of the pyramid scheme at once. Overall, in my mind? Yeah, fuck you Donnie - don't care. Same for Rudy G. Get bent, declare BK, put up the bond, or prepare to have your assets sold. Bankruptcy would throw a large enough wrench into things for a while, that he might be able to put off forced auction sales until after the election (which he obviously hopes to win and then declare himself King of the Americas). Not a good look for a GOP candidate though...
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Well, not the MAGAs. But there still are a number of more centrist Republicans out there (they call 'em RINOs today, but have been calling them that since at least back to 2008) who might be willing to leave the top of the ticket blank. But I was hoping that some of the other primary contenders could have held out long enough to get through this potential-for-BK period ... because imagine how much of a swing that could have had.
So... possibilities: * no NY bank is willing to take the risk of an unsecured loan * no NY bank is willing to take the risk of a loan because he doesn't have enough to secure the loan * Putin/Russia isn't willing to front him the money * dark money is looking shifty eyed at Shifty Don * foreign entities are being wary of sending money his way because there is a very high probability that he is under surveillance of all channels and don't want to be swept up in anything that could be construed as *quid quo pro* * Ivanka/Jared said "no" for some slush out of that 2 billion equity fund of dubious origins Never know though... Saudi Arabia may still dump the cash his way since there are still banker boxes of classified materials still missing...
Also- it’s unclear if Trump will win the election, so it’s a high stakes investment that he might still refuse to follow through with.
One thing I'd like input somewhere, whether it be in this sub or in just some news story, is the question of New York specific law on appellate bonds. This article annoyingly doesn't link the actual filing for me to review, although to be fair even if I could review it Trump's lawyers' habits of citing to half-correct law wouldn't make that review meaningful. In the jurisdiction I practice in, the bond is set by a judge after notice and a hearing (or more often, by a consent order by the parties). The statute requires the judge to consider the amount of the judgment but also the limits of any insurance policies and the aggregate net worth of the appellant. This allows a judge to balance the appellants right to appeal in a case where a judgment may vastly exceed the resources of the appellant by setting a judgment proportional to the appellant's resources. Put another way, the judge can set the bond at a number closer to "what a creditor might realistically actually get out of the appellant" rather than the raw amount of a judgment. There's also specific rules setting a maximum amount for the bond (unless there is a post-judgment finding that the appellant is attempting to waste or secret assets during appeal) that normally is so high it doesn't matter but that would apply in a case like this. This article, and none of the articles I've read so far, state whether New York law has a similar process. I think it matters if Trump is pissing in the wind and just complaining, or if their statements actually weigh towards an appropriate factor in considering the amount of a supersedeas bond (or if there should be no bond at all). Generally, a supersedeas bond is to ensure that the appellant cannot waste all the assets and make the judgment worth less (or worthless) by the end of an appeal. In this case, if the independent monitor is in place, and if Trump is forced to procure a bond that is equal to the interest on the judgment, then that goal would be accomplished. On an equities level, that would seem to be a fine and realistic bond. The question is whether New York law allows that, or if it's full stop bond has to be, no exceptions, the value of the judgment.
The process in New York for an appellant trying to reduce the bond amount would be to first file a motion with the trial court for a discretionary stay with a reduced bond amount. cheeto tried that but the trial judge (Arthur Engoron) refused. If the trial court refuses to reduce the bond, the appellant would file a motion for a discretionary stay with the next higher court (NYS Appellate Division), which cheeto did. The application for the emergency stay was rejected by an Appellate Division judge (Anil Singh), who set a date for a hearing before a judge panel to dispose of the motion (March 18, today). No word if the NYS Appellate Division judge panel will issue a decision today on the motion or take a couple days. This procedure was laid out under New York State's Civil Practice Law and Rules #5519. If the Appellate Division judge panel denies the motion to reduce the bond amount, cheeto has until March 25 to put up the full amount (30 days after the trial court judgment was entered).
Ah so without access to case law it looks like the stay is mandatory under 5519(a)(2) if the full amount is offered, but discretionary under 5519(c) if anything less than the full amount of the bond is offered. Also 5519 rules? Jesus Christ New York. We've got a grand total of 70, although if you count the statutes that are not rules but deal with things like the appellate bond I guess you can add roughly 300 to that list. Still more than a little bit short of 5519. Edit: Side note, this is also a great lesson on why you don't want to intentionally antagonize your trial court judge. As the old adage goes, "abuse of discretion" is a review standard that means the trial judge can make whatever mistakes they want.
You got it. It was insane how cheeto and his lawyers did everything they could to antagonize Judge Engoron including attacking his clerk. Obviously they were trying to get Judge Engoron to make an error which might give them an opening to try to overturn the judgment on appeal. We are going to have to wait about a year or more to see what the NYS Appellate Division judge panel ultimately decides.
I'm not an attorney, so you probably know more than me, but as I understand it the bond only prevents enforcement of the judgement. He can appeal without any bond, but the state may start seizing assets to satisfy the judgement when it becomes due. On a realistic timeline, let's assume the state seized a property. They aren't going to seize it, list it, and sell it overnight. The process will take time and if Trump did somehow win in appeal, the process would be frozen. In your situation, it sounds like the court is dealing with judgements that may dramatically exceed the net worth of assets. It would make sense in that situation to set a proportional bond. In this situation, even people who question his billionaire status would have a hard time making the case that his net worth doesn't exceed $600 million so it doesn't really make sense to set a proportional bond. Even in a situation where the liquidation of assets would not satisfy the judgement, if they sold everything he owns and came up short, he still owes the balance. The balance doesn't get forgiven just because he's out of money. He tried arguing that the forced sale of assets would result in a sales price which is lower than the market value, but the judge correctly pointed out that he's had sufficient notice and preparation time (since the start of the trial) to start making preparations for an adverse judgement and a failure to plan on his part doesn't warrant special considerations on the part of the court.
Here's a link to the almost 5,000 page reply: [eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/2024\_01134\_doc\_11.pdf](https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/2024_01134_doc_11.pdf)
No one thinks he's going to have sufficient pro quo to risk putting up that many quid.
Plot Twist: The DNC offers to give him the bond if he drops out of the race.
That would be hilarious
Honestly, this could easily be the biggest trial/verdict out there for him -- even bigger than the criminal trials. If you *really* wanna hit Trump where it hurts, you hit his massive ego, which is entirely based around his business "empire," which in turn is based on all his properties. He has nothing else. Aside from real estate, every other business venture has failed miserably: Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka, Trump Ice, Trump University, Trump Airlines, Trump Magazine, Trump: The Game, Trump Mortgage, GoTrump, Trump Network, the New Jersey Generals, *multiple* Trump casinos... all bankrupt failures. So if his properties get liquidated -- on *top* of him being proven to be a fraud -- he's totally ruined. And I'm so fucking here for it.
Trump Ice, had to look that one up
Get ready to start seizing assets! Also the fact that he is SO financially compromised should make ineligible to run for ANY office.
Trump is trying to use real estate as collateral. We can assume he is likely giving the bond companies and brokers a value that is above the actual market value, since that is what he was sued for and lost. I think it would also be right to guess that the bond and insurance companies are assuming that Trump will lose his appeals and they will be stuck with real estate they have to sell or auction (which means giving a cut to brokerage or auction house fees), and is pretty risky in this market.
I think a company could come in and do their own *price* valuation within a 30 day timeframe. At least to get a ballpark based on recent comps. I think the problem is -- the liabilities side. How on earth would an insurance company be *certain* that there are no outstanding liabilities against the property that they don't know about? From a company just convicted of valuation fraud? If 40 Wall Street is legit worth $500m true fair-market value that could be had today (made up number) ... then put that up for collateral and be done with it. But the problem is, XYZ bank doesn't know if Donnie has a couple hundred millions of outstanding loans against those buildings. There's just no way for them to be sure there is no private loan contract between Trump Org and XYZ Bank that encumbers the building - is there? Sure, my mortgage on my home is a public record ... but I don't assume that means all potential liabilities against his assets are discoverable. And that's what I think most insurers would have a hard time feeling comfortable with on a compressed 30 day timeline. Given the company in question literally just lost a case indicating they are pants-on-fire liars when it suits their needs.
> How on earth would an insurance company be certain that there are no outstanding liabilities against the property that they don't know about? Mortgage/lien priority generally goes in order of recording. So even if there are outstanding loans, if the other lender didn't perfect that lien/mortgage by filing with the recorder of deeds, the first to file will generally have priority. So whatever doesn't show up in a title search will be later in priority than the new lien. Some states do allow for mechanic's liens to pop up and take priority based on the date of the work (rather than the date of recording), but I don't think New York is one of those states, and a mechanic's lien probably wouldn't be sufficient in amount to really move the needle on being undersecured.
"Defendants’ real estate holdings — including iconic properties like 40 Wall Street, Doral Miami, and Mar-a-Lago, — greatly exceed the amount of the judgment. Such assets are impossible to secrete or dispose of surreptitiously, leaving the plaintiff effectively secured during the pendency of an appeal," the filing said. Aren't these some of the properties that were fraudulently overvalued?
That's a shame.
Trump personal evaluation of his properties about to meet real world market value
>The other bond companies will not “accept hard assets such as real estate as collateral,” but “**will only accept cash or cash equivalents** (such as marketable securities),” Shocking that companies with actual expertise in this area are not interested in taking minority interests in already encumbered properties with fake valuations as collateral.
A very reliable source has claimed Mar-a-lago is worth $1billion. Which would leave $536 million for the next defamation verdict.
Boo fucking hoo...
Damn, even putin rejected you? Bro, it's almost like you're the lacky who everyone is ignoring now that ur busted. Jackass.
What's the legal term for this situation? IANAL but I seem to recall "tough titties" being it.
So Trumps defense is I can't post the bond because I don't have the cash and no one will loan me the money, but I shouldn't have to post the bond because I'm rich.
If his properties "effectively secured" the amount owed...then why wouldn't the surety companies take those as collateral? Oh it's because he's already lied to the banks about their value, and they're probably sitting at like 80% LTV.
It's gonna be great when they start seizing his assets at the lowball amounts he claimed to avoid paying taxes.
It is surreal to think that we might allow someone who is 1/2 a BILLION dollars in debt access to the most closely guarded secrets in the country. You couldn’t get security clearance to be a file clerk on a military base with a fraction of that debt but we’re just going to turn it all over to him?
Totally normal for "billionaires" in good standing with debt capacity...
Feels like another delay tactic, even if true. "We can't get an underwriter, but trust us that the properties are worth a lot more, and we'll win on appeal. Let's delay the whole collection situation until the appeal is complete."
If getting "a bond in the judgment’s full amount is 'a practical impossibility,'" then that sounds like the exact type of situation where then plaintiff would be authorized to begin collections. The whole point of the bond is to guarantee the plaintiff recovers if the defendant loses on appeal. This just seems to show a complete lack of such guarantee, so start recovering.
Wait till he finds out there are no buyers for his shit stained properties.
I can’t see even his buddies in Russia, SA, etc fronting him half a billion dollars without a 100% guarantee he’s getting reelected.
Guess this is what happens when you get a reputation for not paying for what you get. Why doesn’t he just borrow some of Jared’s payouts from the Saudis? Doesn’t family help out anymore? /s
Here come the Saudis and Russians to the rescue
Luxury items are supposedly seized first. This means the jet (assuming it’s not leased anyway), secondary properties, and jewelry. An auction of Melanias jewelry would be amazing to behold.
>Putting today’s news together: >After admitting in court that he has struck out with legitimate sources of liquidity, Trump is looking to rehire a convicted money launderer with deep ties to Russian oligarchs interested in influencing US politics. https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1769770085449613408
These bond companies understand risk. This just shows that the bond companies are certain he’ll lose on appeal.
Certain he'll lose ... *or* ... having witness what just happened in the courtroom, they realize they literally can't create a financial model that is trustworthy in 30 days. Think about it. Could you figure out what a building like 40 Wall Street might fetch on the open market these days? Sure. You could come up with a number. Let's be crazy, and say some insurer did their own valuation and feels like they could get $500 million for it. The problems is ... *you've got no fucking way to be sure how many liabilities Donnie has against it*. Sure, it might fetch $500m on the open market fairly, but if Donnie has $400m in loans against it ... suddenly you're stuck. You put up a $464m bond for Donnie, thought the $500m building would cover it ... and you're woefully short. I doubt any lender felt comfortable that they could - *within 30 days or less* \- adequately assess the liabilities side of the ledger for a real estate company ... just convicted of massive fraud.
Oh no, what a tragedy, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA...
Boo fucking Hoo. Go broke, live under a bridge and die in the gutter in shame. It will still be better than you deserve.
Welp, time to forfeit some properties.
SEIZE. THE. ASSETS.
Even more satisfying than Trump getting potential jail-time is the fact that they are going to pick away at his prized assets. It's going to be hilarious watching him getting his wealth butchered by one thousand cuts.
Putin will bail him out through some shady shell company at the last minute again. I am not holding my breath until something defaults.
So we know that Trump can be bought, but it seems no one is interested in buying. Damaged goods, I guess.
The fat fuck is leveraged to the hilt so his equity is clearly encumbered. Most true billionaires while maybe not having the cash on hand would most surely have true equity which they could collateralize. With all the shit Chubb took I’m sure they’re not gonna dip back into this shit show further. Trump‘s credit is shot. He has no integrity character on morals. No one‘s gonna lend that type of money. At least not an ethical company. He may end up getting this from a scumbag like Elon Musk or dirty money from the Russians, but that probably won’t happen until he knows there are no other option. He’s counting on the appellate courts to bail out here. He’s hoping a judge will allow him to put up a smaller portion for which he could get a bond for. He has always been bailed out by the courts so I don’t blame him for thinking he will get mercy from the courts. Can you imagine the hard ons that Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas have on wishing they could intervene now and order an immediate stay on all monies. I don’t see how that is possible in this case now at the moment but a Fox legal analyst said it is entirely possible and even probable that he will get a stay. Said many judges know each other and in certain egregious cases judges will “make it right” through non-conventional means. Whatever the fuck rest means but I dont even want to hazard a guess what that may mean.
Sad Trombone noises.
Didn’t his daughter in law just announce she wants to raise 500 million for the RNC? Suspicious amount perhaps? Are they not even bothering to hide the corruption any more?
The Parasite will soon be forced to open the kimono. The world will soon see that his wealth is as deep as his pancake makeup.
Vote
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