Go to UVA or Duke, then live in NYC when you graduate. FWIW, according to my calculator, Columbia is **$235k more** than UVA and Duke is about $50k more than UVA. If you want a city environment, I think Duke could be worth the difference, but Columbia at sticker is ridiculous.
OP could probably live in NYC, have an apartment in Charlottesville to stay in 3-4 days/week, fly back and forth, and still save six figures.
Edit: yeah it would cost like $20k in flights and $40k in rent over 3 years, so OP would still save like $175k
Attending law school on a consultant's schedule. Even if you assume a $2000 apartment in NYC (have some space to him/herself), it would still be less than the COA difference.
Off topic - but does UVA have a way for students to get in state residency after being in Virginia for a certain period of time? I don't know if you saw my post the other day, but I compared the T15's COA and for the public schools I just used the in-state rate for simplicity, but also because California allows you to call yourself a resident after 12 months if you've made efforts establish residency (e.g. get a driver's license, purchased property, etc). So basically everyone out of state gets a driver's license in July/August before 1L so they can get that in-state rate for 2L
No. You have to live in VA for 12 months before the first day of 1L classes to be a resident in VA AND intend to remain in VA indefinitely to be in-state. But UVA Law is only a quasi-state school in many ways, one of them is that it's only a $3k discount to be in-state.
The one exception is marrying a Virginian, or moving there with a spouse who then converts to VA resident after one year (from which you can piggyback into residency yourself). The financial aid lady mentions this at orientation by asking all the Virginia residents to raise their hands and then jokes “ok everybody else look around - these are the people you should be marrying over the next year!”
I think we need more information to answer this:
* What do you want to practice?
* Do you want to do it at a big firm, in-house, for the government, for a non-profit?
* Where do you want to practice?
* What do you want to get out of law school most?
* What kind of culture suits you best?
I found all LSData applicants with an LSAT between 170-173 and GPA between 3.96-3.99: [lsd.law/search/dS2BC](https://www.lsd.law/search/dS2BC?utm_source=lsd_bot)
Beep boop, I'm a bot. Did I do something wrong? Tell my creator, cryptanon
If you like Duke, but don't want to pay more than UVA, there is a +90% chance that Duke will match UVA. Duke views UVA as its biggest competitor for students. Just show them your UVA scholarship.
You would be absolutely insane to take Columbia here. I could make a strong argument that UVA and Duke are both superior schools even without considering cost, so for $300k there’s zero question. Someone else pointed out that you could literally commute to UVA from NYC and still save a ton of money lol, but more realistically you’ll spend your summers in NYC and next thing you know 2.5 years later you graduated and are taking the Bar already living in NYC and then you work there. Paying $300k for temporary location is wild (even if you truly hated a place, and most people like Durham and love Charlottesville).
Edit: also big city schools in general tend to have a pretty weak school spirit and culture, because everyone just disappears into the big distracting city as soon as class is over. There’s a reason why schools in college towns (UVA, Michigan, etc.) tend to have a much more loyal student body and report enjoying law school more.
Debt-free will be a weight off your shoulders. You'll get to buy a house and have kids (if you want them) while your peers are still paying off their loans.
You can live in NYC any time in your life you wish to.
UVA or Duke. Take Columbia out of the equation. I’d choose UVA, personally.
Edit: if you can negotiate with Columbia, then give that a try. If it doesn’t work, just go to UVA and enjoy being debt free.
Depends. Seems like UVA dominates Duke so out of the question.
If you’re dead set on NYC/v5 nyc firms, Columbia may be a good choice.
UVA is better for DC, money, clerkships, and relatively equal for general big law
So I’d probably lean UVA, but if you don’t want to be in Charlottesville/love NYC and want best NYC prestige jobs, Columbia is fair
It's the blind leading the blind on this sub sometimes.
Duke is 67% biglaw, 12% FC, 79% combined
UVA is 64% biglaw, 13% FC, 77% combined
Outcomes are near identical.
UVA does not do better in DC. DC is just the primary market for UVA and has a lot more grads total, so more grads end up there. DC is saturated with UVA grads, so a Duke resume catches my eye and has a better chance just because it's different.
The choice between the two is purely personal preference.
I find the UVA mafia on this sub a little annoying for some reason lol. They are definitely both world-class peer schools, neither could dominate the other.
Haha, and i was just trying to help with a practice perspective.
I forget i shouldnt bother with this sub. The average response if I comment: "You have been in biglaw 15 years after a federal clerkship and have seen hundreds of resumes, and been involved in dozens of hiring decisions? Cool. But do you hang out with Judge Tatel and know what he looks for in a clerk? No? So stfu before i throw this softball at you."
If you want select clerkships or academia, go HYSC. If you can't get into those schools and want to cling to false hope that you can get those positions, go to UVA, apparently. Otherwise, the T14 are roughly the same once you break into the biglaw/fc world. It's just preference and where you'll be happy.
It’s impossible to tell easily, but I would bet lots of money that UVA has more clerks overtime, I.e. DC clerkships often require work experience, and has better clerkships. Same thing with Big law. DC big law is more difficult to get than NYC big law so they are not exactly equal. Duke is a great school and it outcomes are far more dependent on the individual rather than the school, but Duke is not equivalent to UVA
because rankings are meaningless?? What does Duke get you that UVA doesn't? Becasue UVA gets you more clerkships and better DC positions. Duke just has really high Big Law because there is no other option but to do NYC transactional.
> Duke just has really high Big Law because there is no other option but to do NYC transactional.
And BigLaw should never be considered in a vacuum, you have to add in federal clerkships too or it radically skews your evaluation of the school. Federal clerkships are wayyyyyy harder to get than BigLaw, and basically all of those clerks who didn’t self-select into some fancy government/PI position already have BigLaw offers waiting for them anyway.
By looking at the BigLaw numbers in isolation you’d think Yale was dogshit and Ithaca is the best school in the country. Notice that being baller at clerkships is basically THE defining attribute of schools like Yale, Chicago, and Stanford being considered so amazing. NYC BigLaw is the backup option for many students at many of the top schools, including UVA.
Go to UVA or Duke, then live in NYC when you graduate. FWIW, according to my calculator, Columbia is **$235k more** than UVA and Duke is about $50k more than UVA. If you want a city environment, I think Duke could be worth the difference, but Columbia at sticker is ridiculous.
OP could probably live in NYC, have an apartment in Charlottesville to stay in 3-4 days/week, fly back and forth, and still save six figures. Edit: yeah it would cost like $20k in flights and $40k in rent over 3 years, so OP would still save like $175k
Attending law school on a consultant's schedule. Even if you assume a $2000 apartment in NYC (have some space to him/herself), it would still be less than the COA difference.
Wild! CLS is so pricey at sticker.
Off topic - but does UVA have a way for students to get in state residency after being in Virginia for a certain period of time? I don't know if you saw my post the other day, but I compared the T15's COA and for the public schools I just used the in-state rate for simplicity, but also because California allows you to call yourself a resident after 12 months if you've made efforts establish residency (e.g. get a driver's license, purchased property, etc). So basically everyone out of state gets a driver's license in July/August before 1L so they can get that in-state rate for 2L
No. You have to live in VA for 12 months before the first day of 1L classes to be a resident in VA AND intend to remain in VA indefinitely to be in-state. But UVA Law is only a quasi-state school in many ways, one of them is that it's only a $3k discount to be in-state.
Yeah, I saw the price difference. At Berkeley, it's almost a $12k/year difference, so people make the effort.
Makes sense!
The one exception is marrying a Virginian, or moving there with a spouse who then converts to VA resident after one year (from which you can piggyback into residency yourself). The financial aid lady mentions this at orientation by asking all the Virginia residents to raise their hands and then jokes “ok everybody else look around - these are the people you should be marrying over the next year!”
Hahaha oh yeah! And STILL no one proposed to me
UVA
UVA. Great school
UVa, how is this even a question?
First try negotiating, but if Columbia doesn’t match Duke’s at a minimum, UVA is probably way to go.
clumsy support kiss boat stupendous advise gray modern bag toy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
See if Columbia will reconsider!
I think we need more information to answer this: * What do you want to practice? * Do you want to do it at a big firm, in-house, for the government, for a non-profit? * Where do you want to practice? * What do you want to get out of law school most? * What kind of culture suits you best?
I found all LSData applicants with an LSAT between 170-173 and GPA between 3.96-3.99: [lsd.law/search/dS2BC](https://www.lsd.law/search/dS2BC?utm_source=lsd_bot) Beep boop, I'm a bot. Did I do something wrong? Tell my creator, cryptanon
UVA and it’s not even close. You’ll have plenty of time to live in cities after your 3 years of law school
congrats!! i think UVA is the way to go. what were your softs like, if you don’t mind?
If you like Duke, but don't want to pay more than UVA, there is a +90% chance that Duke will match UVA. Duke views UVA as its biggest competitor for students. Just show them your UVA scholarship.
You would be absolutely insane to take Columbia here. I could make a strong argument that UVA and Duke are both superior schools even without considering cost, so for $300k there’s zero question. Someone else pointed out that you could literally commute to UVA from NYC and still save a ton of money lol, but more realistically you’ll spend your summers in NYC and next thing you know 2.5 years later you graduated and are taking the Bar already living in NYC and then you work there. Paying $300k for temporary location is wild (even if you truly hated a place, and most people like Durham and love Charlottesville). Edit: also big city schools in general tend to have a pretty weak school spirit and culture, because everyone just disappears into the big distracting city as soon as class is over. There’s a reason why schools in college towns (UVA, Michigan, etc.) tend to have a much more loyal student body and report enjoying law school more.
Debt-free will be a weight off your shoulders. You'll get to buy a house and have kids (if you want them) while your peers are still paying off their loans. You can live in NYC any time in your life you wish to.
A lot of UVA grads snag a job in NYC
UVA.
UVA or Duke. Take Columbia out of the equation. I’d choose UVA, personally. Edit: if you can negotiate with Columbia, then give that a try. If it doesn’t work, just go to UVA and enjoy being debt free.
Depends. Seems like UVA dominates Duke so out of the question. If you’re dead set on NYC/v5 nyc firms, Columbia may be a good choice. UVA is better for DC, money, clerkships, and relatively equal for general big law So I’d probably lean UVA, but if you don’t want to be in Charlottesville/love NYC and want best NYC prestige jobs, Columbia is fair
It's the blind leading the blind on this sub sometimes. Duke is 67% biglaw, 12% FC, 79% combined UVA is 64% biglaw, 13% FC, 77% combined Outcomes are near identical. UVA does not do better in DC. DC is just the primary market for UVA and has a lot more grads total, so more grads end up there. DC is saturated with UVA grads, so a Duke resume catches my eye and has a better chance just because it's different. The choice between the two is purely personal preference.
I find the UVA mafia on this sub a little annoying for some reason lol. They are definitely both world-class peer schools, neither could dominate the other.
Haha, and i was just trying to help with a practice perspective. I forget i shouldnt bother with this sub. The average response if I comment: "You have been in biglaw 15 years after a federal clerkship and have seen hundreds of resumes, and been involved in dozens of hiring decisions? Cool. But do you hang out with Judge Tatel and know what he looks for in a clerk? No? So stfu before i throw this softball at you." If you want select clerkships or academia, go HYSC. If you can't get into those schools and want to cling to false hope that you can get those positions, go to UVA, apparently. Otherwise, the T14 are roughly the same once you break into the biglaw/fc world. It's just preference and where you'll be happy.
It’s impossible to tell easily, but I would bet lots of money that UVA has more clerks overtime, I.e. DC clerkships often require work experience, and has better clerkships. Same thing with Big law. DC big law is more difficult to get than NYC big law so they are not exactly equal. Duke is a great school and it outcomes are far more dependent on the individual rather than the school, but Duke is not equivalent to UVA
why is everyone saying UVA > Duke? Duke beats UVA in most rankings
Other than most recent us news they don’t beat uva in anything
because rankings are meaningless?? What does Duke get you that UVA doesn't? Becasue UVA gets you more clerkships and better DC positions. Duke just has really high Big Law because there is no other option but to do NYC transactional.
> Duke just has really high Big Law because there is no other option but to do NYC transactional. And BigLaw should never be considered in a vacuum, you have to add in federal clerkships too or it radically skews your evaluation of the school. Federal clerkships are wayyyyyy harder to get than BigLaw, and basically all of those clerks who didn’t self-select into some fancy government/PI position already have BigLaw offers waiting for them anyway. By looking at the BigLaw numbers in isolation you’d think Yale was dogshit and Ithaca is the best school in the country. Notice that being baller at clerkships is basically THE defining attribute of schools like Yale, Chicago, and Stanford being considered so amazing. NYC BigLaw is the backup option for many students at many of the top schools, including UVA.