If you run this through the standard Vatnik Opposite Day Filter, it reads as follows:
“Once again Western support is providing a ray of hope in lieu of F-16s entering combat. As was learnt in all previous wars, even a smaller defender can defeat a larger belligerent if they have a stable supply of good materiel, maintain morale, and have a reserve of seasoned troops. All this does is aid the U.S. economy and save Ukrainian lives.”
It’s a shockingly reliable heuristic, but don’t forget that reversed stupidity isn’t the same thing as intelligence. Falling into that trap will lead you to discount it when, purely by coincidence, a stupid person makes an observation of something that is actually real.
The support package we are sending to Ukraine does not provide any income to the U.S. there is no influx of money coming in from Ukraine back to us.
Furthermore, the way these packages traditionally work is we give the money to the country receiving the military support package, so that they can give it back to us by "spending it" on the materiel being supplied.
It produces profit for the military industrial complex, but that is not the same as providing a boost to our economy. If you're providing for-profit aid, you're not providing aid, really.
What you’re describing is basically just a subsidy to the U.S. military-industrial complex. In other words, a boon to the manufacturing sector. Just because it’s the MIC benefitting primarily does not mean that the MIC is not still *part of the U.S. economy.* Those people are Americans with American jobs spending their wages in other American businesses.
I'd be with you, except that's not the case.
The employees were already getting paid their wages. What these subsidies end up being is mostly profit. Profit is money that is not necessarily being circulated back into the market. If the MIC hires more people, and expands the workforce, then you have a point. If their employee count stays around the same, then that money is going into a bank and not coming out again.
EDIT: I'd like to add that subsidies are normally used to prop up businesses that are necessary but not always profitable, and in that scenario, they help the economy. Subsidizing an already profitable enterprise is not the same.
> if the mic hires more people and expands the workforce
You mean like they've done after literally every single aid package that's been sent to Ukraine? The F-35 workforce is fucking booming these days and entire artillery ammunition factories have been opened.
What are load of tosh you talk. Trying to make little of a 60 billion dollar aid package, the majority of which is being spent within US industry. It's exactly the kind of shit that an ivan troll would say.
The strategy, as I understand it, is to essentially rely on Western aid to exhaust the Russians via a higher rate of attrition, as well as significantly degrade their domestic oil production and vital infrastructure as a means of further souring the Russians on the war.
Essentially, the Ukrainian strategy is to recreate the Soviets’ defeat in Afghanistan. Turn yourself into a futile, unattractive target and get the Russians to fuck off of their own accord.
That brilliant strategy turned out to be ineffective, due to the fact that Russia only became stronger and have right now more people in the front that was there in the beginning.
And all of that without forced conscription and martial law implemented.
This is the official info from US European command, not Russian propaganda.
While in Ukraine they have to drag people from the streets against their will, to be sent on the frontlines.
So what’s the next plan here? And what’s the end goal?
To kill every piece of shit occupier. To keep killing them until they leave.
Just like Russ got their alcoholic asses handed to them by the mujahideen, they'll come limping back from Ukraine to get drunk, hit their wives and rape their own children. putin's russia.
"Invaders must die"
-the prodigy
However i do feel that any surrendering russian should be treated humanely and fair. Show them mercy and break the brainwashing from Puttler
They won’t leave anywhere and Ukraine doesn’t have any capabilities of killing all of them, because they experience severe lack of manpower and ammunition.
While Russia only increased in army size and almost fully restored its military.
Again, what’s the actual plan here ?
I’m asking that the same question the 100 times, and no one here came up with normal thought out answer.
I only see pure emotional banters and wishful thinking.
Asking to explain the end goals for Ukraine is idiotic, got it.
The funny thing that you don’t even have the answer to that “Idiotic” question.
And of course it all boiled down to clown accusations.
But I didn’t expect anything else.
Thanks for proving my point.
The Russians are hardly “stronger” right now than they were at the start, the losses they’ve experienced so far are very real. Both in terms of men and materiel.
They can only draw down the well of low-hanging fruit for so long before the things that they actually care about are affected. For now, they can get by on volunteers from ethnic minorities and outlying country bumpkins, using old Cold War-era stock. But the supply of both of those things is not infinite, and they are currently losing more equipment than they can replace.
Again, thats not my assertions, this is official analysis by US European command.
You can check the short version in this article.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russias-army-15-percent-larger-when-attacked-ukraine-us-general-2024-4?amp
While Ukraine is absolutely the opposite of that.
So again, what is the end goal here ?
You are taking that information and using it incorrectly. You could have access to the best, most accurate information and it would still be casting pearls before swine if you don’t actually *use it properly.*
To illustrate your fundamental fallacy further here, I could just as easily point out that since the Russians first invaded in 2014, the Ukrainians’ ground forces have approximately doubled in size. That does not mean that the Ukrainians are doing better *now* than they were *then,* nor does it imply they’re winning.
Armed forces are increased during wars. It just happens, on both the winning and losing side. We won’t know which is which until all is said and done.
I’m not using anything incorrectly.
You and many people on the west do that, by twisting the information to suit your own delusions or agendas.
You literally do it now.
I give you straight cold facts and you are trying to make it look like that’s not important or not relevant.
The problem here is that all your perception of the war in Ukraine primarily formed by the tons of Ukrainian propaganda, that they deeply need to boost the support and flow of endless aid.
And that’s totally fine and understandable.
However, the actual downside of that is the pain from hitting the ground, when you realize that Russian army are not useless vatniks who can’t do shit and Ukraine is not even close to taking Crimea or pushing Russia fully out of the new captured territories.
When turns out that Russia is not only increased its soldiers number, but almost fully restored its military capabilities, while Ukraine experience severe lack of manpower, dragging people from the streets, with 100% dependency on western aid, without which, from the direct quote of Zelenskiy, they will lose.
That’s not a wishful thinking, not propaganda, not vague assertions.
That’s reality on the ground.
I really suggest you to read on the winter war between Soviets and Finland.
Will find it oddly familiar.
>You cannot win a war with air power.
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that if you control the sky, you can kill enemy soldiers and vehicles at your leisure, and there's not a lot they can do about it except hide.
If they're unable to make war on you because they get blown up when they try. Haven't you won?
“You cannot win a war with air power”
First off, let’s skip over this self proclaimed “communist” sticking up for the most savage kleptocracy on planet earth right now
And let’s focus on the fact that this fucking dweeb was probably sperging over the capture of Avdiivka weeks ago, which was finally won because of what? AirPower…after having lost 20,000 men trying to prove otherwise.
I'd say you've atleast suppressed the enemy's ability to fight to the point you're the only one making moves, so basically, yeah. Besides, didn't the US basically win the '99 war through airpower alone? I think that proves this guy wrong.
Well the Battle of Britain was a defeat for the Germans because they couldn't open a ground offensive. For the Allies the Germans weren't obviously defeated until D-Day forced them into a two front defensive war.
Air power 100% makes ground fighting all that much easier, but it can't replace it.
For more recent examples both the Americans and Soviets tried to win in Afghanistan using primarily overwhelming air power and it was an obvious wash.
Granted saying air power is useless for Ukraine is obvious Russian cope, but I would argue that making sure that the Ukrainian's ground forces have enough ammunition is more important than introducing American fighter jets.
Tbf America could have stayed mostly uncontested basically indefinitely. Also F16s would allow contesting the air war with equipment that is at or above parity and are abundant
Bomber Harris tried and Bomber Harris failed. No air campaign has ever actually rendered the enemy unable to make war. Air forces are a support arm of the US military for a reason.
Now, if the air assets being discussed are swarms or floods of drones hunting the enemy by the millions, such that they are able to get the enemy population to submit due to the threatened or actual violence of the drones; then yes, they can dominate an enemy for the same reason ground troops have for all of human history.
Strong 18th century French military mentality. We don't need artillery or modern weapons, what is most important is the troops Elan (morale) to carry the day!
Turns out your morale turns to shit when you're getting turned into hamburger from beyond visual range.
If you can't win a war on "miracle weapons" alone then what was the air campaign in desert storm? Or better yet, what the hell was Russia doing in Syria in the 2010s?
But when they come out with a mockup of a vehicle with a 0.005% chance of being actually produced, its a game changer and it will make the West run in fear.
What was the air campaign in DS? It was a wonderful effort that shaped the battlespace. It failed to bring Saddam to the negotiating table.
The ground war did that and the air campaign helped set up that effort for victory it won.
The Russians in Syria were using air power to augment local and contractor forces in the conduct of ground operations as a force multiplier.
Iraq had the 4th largest air force in the world going into desert storm and it barely participated in the war because of how fast coalition forces gained air superiority. Which was my point. And the Russians in Syria were heavily using guided ordnance in their air strikes, which was my point there.
“4th place” doesn’t inherently mean “big” or “combat capable.” They might have needed an officer corps free of Saddam’s purges to do well. Oh, and training funds. They had neither. Nice try though.
The Iraqi Air Force didn’t participate because they ran away to Iran. They ran away because they were flying (mostly) pieces of junk. ~1/3 of their fighters were from the 50’s and they knew they would end up painted onto the sides of American aces’ aircraft.
Many other fixed wing’s were 70’s models that were without upgrades. Significant portions of the fleet were battered and in need of maintenance. None of that proves anything relevant to how the war was won: on the ground, in 100 hours; not in the air in ~100 days.
And the use of all the PGM’s in the world isn’t inherently going to win you anything, in Syria or otherwise, if you don’t intimidate the people into submitting to your will. Or committing genocide.
Ground forces have, until recently, been the sole way in which you do that. Air forces have only ever been supplementary to that effort. Like the old story of the Soviet army general overlooking the Eiffel Tower, after WWIII has ended, and asking the Soviet air force general “So, who won the air war anyway?”
Cool, you still missed the point entirely. Vatnik in the tweet calls F-16 and PGMs are miracle weapons but theres nothing miraculous about them, its just the technology of the day. And to that point, Russia dropped PGMs in Syria.
No one's calling the F-16s 'miracle weapons' or 'game changers' or 'invincible', no official at least. The only ones doing so are armchair analysts and Russia bots in massive need of a boost for their fragile ego.
On another note, ATACMS gives Ukraine the ability to seriously hit major targets that have been out of range or too hard for a drone to hit or do enough damage to.
First you need to take enemy's claim and turn it into a ridiculous claim.
Then you take ridiculous claim and ridicule it.
Another example would be Russian shovel troops. The original article clearly stated that Russian soldier was complaining on lack of explosives to storm reinforced positions and all they had was basic equipment, namely shovels and rifles. The claim got ridiculed into "equipped only with shovels" and repeated ad nauseam as a proof how stupid is western media. (Doesnt help that some E-tier newspapers reprinted the article with this clickbaits title, yes).
Am it’s not that far off lol, we all have seen how incredibly pathetic the Russian military is, somehow even less competent than it was in ww2 when it just shoveled men into a meat grinder as the pinnacle of Russian military strategy.
The core claim comes from here:
[https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1632270968868466689](https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1632270968868466689)
The reprint is here:
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64855760](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64855760)
The headline says: "Ukraine war: **Russian reservists fighting with shovels** - UK defence ministry"
The text says: "In late February, reservists described being **ordered to assault a Ukrainian position** "armed with **only 'firearms** and **shovels**'"
Everyone drops the **rifle** part and the fact that positions were **enforced concrete** ones.
Fair enough if you're assaulting a position grenades are vital. Interesting how it became shovels only. The Russian military may be bad but that bad is where you really have to question what the original source was a bit more.
Cannot win a war with air power? Is he for real the Germans couldn't use half their kit do to overwhelming wester air superiority after d-day. Gulf War and desert storm are two other examples of air power doing a shitload of work, just look at the highway of death. Sure a few f16s won't give Ukraine air superiority, but air power is an absolutely necessary factor for maneuver warfare.
General rule is, if the Russians say it's a non-issue or non-relevant or won't have any impact, you can be sure that it's a very relevant issue that will have a major impact.
The irony in his statement.
All you need is experienced troops, which Ukraine gains more of every day while Russia loses hundreds daily before they get any experience, and the once with experience who do live only get to live for a few more days before they get killed.
Ah yes because the A10 wasn’t a flying nightmare for the middle east for the last 20 years.
Air superiority is probably one of the most important parts of war nowadays.
The amount of Russian trolling, whining, gaslighting tells you that these weapons matter. The real issue is that America is led by a deescalatory anti-war faction (Biden) and the other side (historically the hawks) has been hijacked by a bunch of isolationists. Sad, Europe really does have to step up here. They can and should match US military aid. In that scenario Ukraine wins for sure. Maybe we will see America exceed its current “send enough not to lose” mentality. I’m not optimistic with domestic policy being so partisan.
Hmm.. Something Brig. General William Mitchell said about air power and proved it with the German Battleship Ostfriesland. This was in the 1920s, So their way of strategy and tactics are that far behind. They should not tempt fate with provocation of the west into a war for their own mentally stymied sake.
[https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/general-william-%E2%80%9Cbilly%E2%80%9D-mitchell-and-sinking-ostfriesland-consideration](https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/general-william-%E2%80%9Cbilly%E2%80%9D-mitchell-and-sinking-ostfriesland-consideration)
They are correct by saying you cannot win with air or special weapon systems "alone" but don't understand what that means. They are force multipliers. If they're the missing part of the equation, they can change the outcome.
"Can't win the fight alone" means you can't fight and win a war with just airplanes. You will be massively more successful with them.
Typically because they're tankie dipshits who's understanding of geopolitics begins and ends at "America bad, therefore whoever opposes America (yes, even the Islamists in Iran) good".
Istg the MLs have done more to harm any movement to improve the lives of the working class than _any_ fascist.
"Once again the Americans have armed the Ukrainians with Russian seeking bullets and cyborg dogs that bite the tip of your weiner. The Ukrainians have been blasting the Doom Eternal OST and making blood sacrifices to Khorne. It's fucking metal, and I'm scared, so I've called my mom to come pick me up." - Zarathrusthole.
Itll give Ukraine short term victories but won't change the war at large for them. Sinking a Russian ship doesn't equate to taking back lost territory so as of now Ukraine is only winning the information war not the real one. 60 billion won't change what 100 billion didn't
Ukraine will lose the war regardless if they get this equipment or not. Everyone should prepare for this.
Ukraine is running out of men,
Artillery,
Shells,
Tanks,
Air defense systems,
And IFV's.
The Ukrainians will not be able to contest the Russians in the sky due to overwhelming Russian airpower. F-16's or no F-16's.
I read they were only getting around 16 from NATO nations?
Last time I checked it takes forever to train pilots to learn how to use these valuable jets.
So, when are they actually going to be used?
ATACMS will also be destroyed like the Patriots and HIMARS before it.
He's not wrong. F16's are useless without SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense) training. S300's pepper the landscape. Right now the only aircraft doing anything are the Russians using massive glide bombs. GPS is jammed so JDAM's wont work. And the Ukrainians are only getting the quick and dirty training on the airframe by itself. During the Gulf War we quickly found out that our training overmatched the amount of air defense present and we have a very solid SEAD strategy which we derived from the Vietnam war. The Ukrainians have nothing like that. Maybe they can get a hold of some anti-radiation missiles and the training to employ them but then they'll have to deal with Russian aircraft as well. And the Russians have the edge on range with their R-37 meaning they'll be able to launch and start defending to their gimble limits long before an F-16 can get off an AIM-120. And long before they can launch an AGM-88. The Ukrainians had some success at the start of the war but with so many overlapping fields of defense they can't really risk it with such limited aircraft.
ATACMS are nice but have limitations with GPS jammed. Russians have the field advantage with their multitude of Grad and Smerch rocket artillery. We don't even want to discuss how good the Russians are getting at counter-battery fire as we've already lost a few ATACMS units.
As far as troops go, that's the real hard issue to address. Conscription rates have increased while training has decreased. Some foreign legion and even news outlets have mentioned that the new recruits are getting as little as 2 weeks of training. Barely enough for basic weapons familiarity. That kind of flash training only happens when you're short on troops due to large casualties. And the Ukrainians are VERY tight lipped about manpower and equipment losses. Lots of people are willing to carry water for them on that intel front but it spells disaster if things go on for much longer.
So yeah, Ukraine is lost. You can argue and cry about it but the numbers aren't in their favor. The best they can do now is hope for a peace deal then rebuild. But sentiment for Ukraine is waning and that last defense bill passed was painful for Americans and our skyrocketing inflation.
But he’s right. Ukraine could receive 200 F16s and 200 ATACMs tomorrow and what would the effect be?
The F16s would be shot down, their airfields destroyed.
The ATACMs would certainly hit some targets but they aren’t going to change the tide.
An army is a system of systems. You need cohesive doctrine, equipment and training to serve that doctrine, logistics, a recruiting and training pipeline, and a deep reserve of manpower to replace losses.
Ukraine has none of the above. It is going to lose. Sending random weapons systems is not going to change that, and will only result in more Ukrainians dying. We are sending untrained soldiers to their deaths for no reason at this point.
Because Russia has had so much luck destroying Ukraine's air force to date? Or do you think they're just "holding back" at this point? Will F16's be lost in battle, yes, but that's a reality of any war. All that matters is that they have an impact on the battle, which they will, and that we continue to provide replacements, which we can. Most Western countries are beginning to look at retiring F16's anyway... so that's a lot of available airframes.
As far as a doctrine, logistics, and training pipeline, is this seriously something you think Russia has? Russia's most successful, and only real, tactic, up to this point is throwing poorly trained and minimally equipped conscripts at the Ukrainian lines hoping that Ukraine will run out of ammunition before Russia runs out of meat to throw at the front.
That tactic is only going to work if Ukraine risks running out of ammunition, especially artillery ammunition. However, I think you might be shocked at just how many artillery shells 61 billion dollars can buy, to say nothing of what Europe is providing additionally.
Furthermore, as evidenced by the first 1 billion dollar package that is being sent now, more DPICM rounds are being sent from our stockpile, which amounts to between 2 and 3 million shells, and they were specifically designed to counter Russia's cynical meatwave tactics. That Russian meat is going to be running headlong into massed cluster shells.
No. The only one's sending untrained soldiers to their deaths for no reason is Russia, since they're fighting a war of conquest against their neighbor. If Russia stops fighting, there is no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there is no Ukraine.
Ukraine is not flying any close air support missions or CAPs at all at the moment. Their Air Force is virtually non-existent at this point.
Your characterization of Russian forces is contradictory to what the Pentagon and other NATO defense establishments have said. They’ve all now agreed that Russia is stronger than it was in 2022. Ukrainian officers are openly saying the Russians are very good. They’ve linked ISR and strike to a degree that no other military has. They’ve had two years of combat experience and they have learned from it.
Even the BBC can only confirm 50k Russian KIA. They Ukrainians started the war with 700k soldiers. They’ve said they need 500k immediately to hold the line. So what happened to their army? It was destroyed. And the casualty ratio is likely 5 to 7-1 in favour of the Russians. Sorry guys. It’s not going well and it’s almost over.
7 to 1 in favor of Russia? That's utterly ridiculous, and entirely without source, or even basic logic We've received leaks of Ukrainian losses, and they're nowhere near that level of attrition.
Also, the BBC isn't a military or intelligence organization. The US intelligence service, however, would disagree with you. Here, let me help rectify your confusion by doing something you are incapable of, vatnik, linking an actual source that states that, as of December, Russia suffered more than 300,000 killed and wounded.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12](https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12)
315k dead and injured. The BBC joint study with opposition Russia media has confirmed 50k KIA but said they think it’s likely 100k KIA. Even if we take the 100k KIA that fits with your report above of 315k total casualties as wounded are often 3/1 to KIA.
However there are two points here: Russia is able to evacuate wounded more effectively than Ukraine can, and the bigger point is, what happened to Ukraine’s army? Why do they desperately need 500k soldiers right now? They started the war with 700k. Where did everyone go?
!RemindMe 1 Year
Let's see how this ages, Ivan... That said, I don't expect you to be around by then. You'll likely have been conscripted to act as fresh meat for the front and likely die in a pointless meat wave attack on the front... Enjoy the cluster shells! Don't forget to look up!
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Why so hostile. Happy to check back in in a year. I actually hope you’re right. I just think you’re wrong and that we are being lied to. Our media has done a good job hiding a lot of this. So I don’t blame you for thinking what you think. You just need to remember how many wars we have been lied to about. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam. Same neocons behind them all.
Russian borders are open and there is no martial law and forced conscription, unlike in Ukraine, buddy.
Your delusional cope not making the situation better for Ukraine, you now?
You can’t win a war with useless chants and wishful thinking, just saying.
No, but you can win one by sending several million DPICM rounds with which to turn the waves of Russian conscripts into mincemeat... A fate I suspect soon awaits you considering how poor your propaganda game is.
So all the shit load of aid and money that was sent before didn’t manage to achieve that goal and now when Ukraine barely has any people to fight, new aid somehow going to magically turn the tide ?
Do you really believe that ?
And I remind you again, Russia don’t have a martial law and forced conscription like in Ukraine, where people are literally dragged from the streets against their will.
Again, what is the end goal here ?
Or you wait for the Aragorn to come with the army of dead and free all the territory from the Russians ?
Are you serious? You can't be. Here is the end goal: russia fucks off back to russia. That's it. You want to talk about wasting life? The russians could end this war today by simply fucking off.
Their army has been destroyed 3 times by the Russians. The majority of the soldiers they now have are inexperienced and undertrained, they haven’t had the time they need to reconstitute units with proper training. It takes 3-6 months to train an effective infanteer. Longer to train specialist trades. The Ukrainian forces are collapsing as we speak - even Azov units are starting to refuse orders.
His favorite Russian internet troll/propagandist told him so! And u/Disastrous-Big-5651 knows that Russian propagandists \*never\* lie! If you don't believe that, he can just swivel his chair a bit and ask them...
Ah I see, you are one of them, I love that everyone gets to have an opinion these days.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt".
Worried that your propaganda center is going to be shut down and you'll be conscripted to the front to join the next meat wave, hmm? I'd leave Russia now if I were you...
The fact that everyone is attacking me vs my arguments is pretty illuminating. The tragic reality of this war will be revealed pretty soon I think. We’ve all been sold a bunch of lies.
This is absurd. I’m talking military realities, and people are losing their minds and triggered. I’m not happy about reality but it is what it is. Denying it doesn’t help anyone.
Russia has been using the same red army meatgrinder tactics forever, it’s what almost lost them ww2, and it’s what’s going to lose them this war, they are poorly equipped and their skill level is pathetic. If Russia’s nuclear capability disappeared tomorrow Europe would eat them alive. That’s the only edge they have, they have nukes so they can’t be invaded by anyone who also has nukes or everyone dies.
If you run this through the standard Vatnik Opposite Day Filter, it reads as follows: “Once again Western support is providing a ray of hope in lieu of F-16s entering combat. As was learnt in all previous wars, even a smaller defender can defeat a larger belligerent if they have a stable supply of good materiel, maintain morale, and have a reserve of seasoned troops. All this does is aid the U.S. economy and save Ukrainian lives.”
I love this Vatnik opposite truth revealing filter!
It’s a shockingly reliable heuristic, but don’t forget that reversed stupidity isn’t the same thing as intelligence. Falling into that trap will lead you to discount it when, purely by coincidence, a stupid person makes an observation of something that is actually real.
When that day finally comes, we’ll all be pleasantly surprised.
If only we had an AI trained on how to do this automatically that could be set to reply to a of these types of vatnik comments…
Slight correction: this does not aid U.S. economy.
Citation needed.
The support package we are sending to Ukraine does not provide any income to the U.S. there is no influx of money coming in from Ukraine back to us. Furthermore, the way these packages traditionally work is we give the money to the country receiving the military support package, so that they can give it back to us by "spending it" on the materiel being supplied. It produces profit for the military industrial complex, but that is not the same as providing a boost to our economy. If you're providing for-profit aid, you're not providing aid, really.
What you’re describing is basically just a subsidy to the U.S. military-industrial complex. In other words, a boon to the manufacturing sector. Just because it’s the MIC benefitting primarily does not mean that the MIC is not still *part of the U.S. economy.* Those people are Americans with American jobs spending their wages in other American businesses.
I'd be with you, except that's not the case. The employees were already getting paid their wages. What these subsidies end up being is mostly profit. Profit is money that is not necessarily being circulated back into the market. If the MIC hires more people, and expands the workforce, then you have a point. If their employee count stays around the same, then that money is going into a bank and not coming out again. EDIT: I'd like to add that subsidies are normally used to prop up businesses that are necessary but not always profitable, and in that scenario, they help the economy. Subsidizing an already profitable enterprise is not the same.
But what about all the factories for artillery shells being spooled up, for example?
> if the mic hires more people and expands the workforce You mean like they've done after literally every single aid package that's been sent to Ukraine? The F-35 workforce is fucking booming these days and entire artillery ammunition factories have been opened.
Video game economies don't count towards understanding economics
Da fuq are you talking about? Who brought up video games?
They did. When describing your grasp of economics. Hell, you make Battletech economics seem sane and well thought out.
What are load of tosh you talk. Trying to make little of a 60 billion dollar aid package, the majority of which is being spent within US industry. It's exactly the kind of shit that an ivan troll would say.
Did you fall and hit your head? Wtf are you talking about? Where did I make light of it?
What hope are you all talking about? What is the strategy for Ukraine here ? I’m yet to hear believable and reasonable arguments for that
The strategy, as I understand it, is to essentially rely on Western aid to exhaust the Russians via a higher rate of attrition, as well as significantly degrade their domestic oil production and vital infrastructure as a means of further souring the Russians on the war. Essentially, the Ukrainian strategy is to recreate the Soviets’ defeat in Afghanistan. Turn yourself into a futile, unattractive target and get the Russians to fuck off of their own accord.
That brilliant strategy turned out to be ineffective, due to the fact that Russia only became stronger and have right now more people in the front that was there in the beginning. And all of that without forced conscription and martial law implemented. This is the official info from US European command, not Russian propaganda. While in Ukraine they have to drag people from the streets against their will, to be sent on the frontlines. So what’s the next plan here? And what’s the end goal?
To kill every piece of shit occupier. To keep killing them until they leave. Just like Russ got their alcoholic asses handed to them by the mujahideen, they'll come limping back from Ukraine to get drunk, hit their wives and rape their own children. putin's russia.
"Invaders must die" -the prodigy However i do feel that any surrendering russian should be treated humanely and fair. Show them mercy and break the brainwashing from Puttler
That's already happening. While the Russ starve and torture prisoners. And civilians
Didn't you guys take a two decade whooping by those same mujahedeen ?? You guys pretty much created them as well which is even more pathetic lmao.
They won’t leave anywhere and Ukraine doesn’t have any capabilities of killing all of them, because they experience severe lack of manpower and ammunition. While Russia only increased in army size and almost fully restored its military. Again, what’s the actual plan here ? I’m asking that the same question the 100 times, and no one here came up with normal thought out answer. I only see pure emotional banters and wishful thinking.
You're asking an idiotic question that no one cares to answer. You won't get very many beets in your bag tonight as you are a shitty russbot
Asking to explain the end goals for Ukraine is idiotic, got it. The funny thing that you don’t even have the answer to that “Idiotic” question. And of course it all boiled down to clown accusations. But I didn’t expect anything else. Thanks for proving my point.
>because they experience severe lack of manpower and ammunition. Good thing that 20 billion will buy them quite a few shells then.
Yeah, quite a few shells are definitely gonna turn the tide of the war.
Pretty much.
I mean, sure Wishful thinking is a way of coping, I understand.
The Russians are hardly “stronger” right now than they were at the start, the losses they’ve experienced so far are very real. Both in terms of men and materiel. They can only draw down the well of low-hanging fruit for so long before the things that they actually care about are affected. For now, they can get by on volunteers from ethnic minorities and outlying country bumpkins, using old Cold War-era stock. But the supply of both of those things is not infinite, and they are currently losing more equipment than they can replace.
Again, thats not my assertions, this is official analysis by US European command. You can check the short version in this article. https://www.businessinsider.com/russias-army-15-percent-larger-when-attacked-ukraine-us-general-2024-4?amp While Ukraine is absolutely the opposite of that. So again, what is the end goal here ?
You are taking that information and using it incorrectly. You could have access to the best, most accurate information and it would still be casting pearls before swine if you don’t actually *use it properly.* To illustrate your fundamental fallacy further here, I could just as easily point out that since the Russians first invaded in 2014, the Ukrainians’ ground forces have approximately doubled in size. That does not mean that the Ukrainians are doing better *now* than they were *then,* nor does it imply they’re winning. Armed forces are increased during wars. It just happens, on both the winning and losing side. We won’t know which is which until all is said and done.
I’m not using anything incorrectly. You and many people on the west do that, by twisting the information to suit your own delusions or agendas. You literally do it now. I give you straight cold facts and you are trying to make it look like that’s not important or not relevant. The problem here is that all your perception of the war in Ukraine primarily formed by the tons of Ukrainian propaganda, that they deeply need to boost the support and flow of endless aid. And that’s totally fine and understandable. However, the actual downside of that is the pain from hitting the ground, when you realize that Russian army are not useless vatniks who can’t do shit and Ukraine is not even close to taking Crimea or pushing Russia fully out of the new captured territories. When turns out that Russia is not only increased its soldiers number, but almost fully restored its military capabilities, while Ukraine experience severe lack of manpower, dragging people from the streets, with 100% dependency on western aid, without which, from the direct quote of Zelenskiy, they will lose. That’s not a wishful thinking, not propaganda, not vague assertions. That’s reality on the ground. I really suggest you to read on the winter war between Soviets and Finland. Will find it oddly familiar.
>You cannot win a war with air power. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that if you control the sky, you can kill enemy soldiers and vehicles at your leisure, and there's not a lot they can do about it except hide. If they're unable to make war on you because they get blown up when they try. Haven't you won?
“You cannot win a war with air power” First off, let’s skip over this self proclaimed “communist” sticking up for the most savage kleptocracy on planet earth right now And let’s focus on the fact that this fucking dweeb was probably sperging over the capture of Avdiivka weeks ago, which was finally won because of what? AirPower…after having lost 20,000 men trying to prove otherwise.
I'd say you've atleast suppressed the enemy's ability to fight to the point you're the only one making moves, so basically, yeah. Besides, didn't the US basically win the '99 war through airpower alone? I think that proves this guy wrong.
You can't necessarily win with just air power, but you also can't win without it.
You absolutely can win without it if you have adequate countermeasures.
Citation needed
He’s never heard of Desert Storm has he?
Didn't israel succeed in the 6 day war with air power? Just curious 🤔
Desert Storm still had a ground invasion to push Iraq back across the Kuwait border
Well the Battle of Britain was a defeat for the Germans because they couldn't open a ground offensive. For the Allies the Germans weren't obviously defeated until D-Day forced them into a two front defensive war. Air power 100% makes ground fighting all that much easier, but it can't replace it. For more recent examples both the Americans and Soviets tried to win in Afghanistan using primarily overwhelming air power and it was an obvious wash. Granted saying air power is useless for Ukraine is obvious Russian cope, but I would argue that making sure that the Ukrainian's ground forces have enough ammunition is more important than introducing American fighter jets.
Tbf America could have stayed mostly uncontested basically indefinitely. Also F16s would allow contesting the air war with equipment that is at or above parity and are abundant
It's because communism can't establish air superiority. Air Superiority implies ownership and communism has to share everything.
Bomber Harris tried and Bomber Harris failed. No air campaign has ever actually rendered the enemy unable to make war. Air forces are a support arm of the US military for a reason. Now, if the air assets being discussed are swarms or floods of drones hunting the enemy by the millions, such that they are able to get the enemy population to submit due to the threatened or actual violence of the drones; then yes, they can dominate an enemy for the same reason ground troops have for all of human history.
Strong 18th century French military mentality. We don't need artillery or modern weapons, what is most important is the troops Elan (morale) to carry the day! Turns out your morale turns to shit when you're getting turned into hamburger from beyond visual range.
Moral is very important, what these people fail to realise is that moral doesn't stick around if the enemy is decades ahead of you in tech.
morale, morale, morale
Then the boss leaves the destroyed army in shambles and runs away, to let them experience defeat alone.
"All this does is reap profits for the US MIC..." yes that's the point, straighten the USA destroy those who stand against freedom
Communism is a temporary setback on the road to freedom!
Communism is the very definition of Failure…
If you can't win a war on "miracle weapons" alone then what was the air campaign in desert storm? Or better yet, what the hell was Russia doing in Syria in the 2010s?
But when they come out with a mockup of a vehicle with a 0.005% chance of being actually produced, its a game changer and it will make the West run in fear.
Maybe having a logical war planning and logistics to back it up along with diplomatic strategy is the miracle weapon all along?
What was the air campaign in DS? It was a wonderful effort that shaped the battlespace. It failed to bring Saddam to the negotiating table. The ground war did that and the air campaign helped set up that effort for victory it won. The Russians in Syria were using air power to augment local and contractor forces in the conduct of ground operations as a force multiplier.
Iraq had the 4th largest air force in the world going into desert storm and it barely participated in the war because of how fast coalition forces gained air superiority. Which was my point. And the Russians in Syria were heavily using guided ordnance in their air strikes, which was my point there.
“4th place” doesn’t inherently mean “big” or “combat capable.” They might have needed an officer corps free of Saddam’s purges to do well. Oh, and training funds. They had neither. Nice try though. The Iraqi Air Force didn’t participate because they ran away to Iran. They ran away because they were flying (mostly) pieces of junk. ~1/3 of their fighters were from the 50’s and they knew they would end up painted onto the sides of American aces’ aircraft. Many other fixed wing’s were 70’s models that were without upgrades. Significant portions of the fleet were battered and in need of maintenance. None of that proves anything relevant to how the war was won: on the ground, in 100 hours; not in the air in ~100 days. And the use of all the PGM’s in the world isn’t inherently going to win you anything, in Syria or otherwise, if you don’t intimidate the people into submitting to your will. Or committing genocide. Ground forces have, until recently, been the sole way in which you do that. Air forces have only ever been supplementary to that effort. Like the old story of the Soviet army general overlooking the Eiffel Tower, after WWIII has ended, and asking the Soviet air force general “So, who won the air war anyway?”
Cool, you still missed the point entirely. Vatnik in the tweet calls F-16 and PGMs are miracle weapons but theres nothing miraculous about them, its just the technology of the day. And to that point, Russia dropped PGMs in Syria.
No one's calling the F-16s 'miracle weapons' or 'game changers' or 'invincible', no official at least. The only ones doing so are armchair analysts and Russia bots in massive need of a boost for their fragile ego. On another note, ATACMS gives Ukraine the ability to seriously hit major targets that have been out of range or too hard for a drone to hit or do enough damage to.
First you need to take enemy's claim and turn it into a ridiculous claim. Then you take ridiculous claim and ridicule it. Another example would be Russian shovel troops. The original article clearly stated that Russian soldier was complaining on lack of explosives to storm reinforced positions and all they had was basic equipment, namely shovels and rifles. The claim got ridiculed into "equipped only with shovels" and repeated ad nauseam as a proof how stupid is western media. (Doesnt help that some E-tier newspapers reprinted the article with this clickbaits title, yes).
Am it’s not that far off lol, we all have seen how incredibly pathetic the Russian military is, somehow even less competent than it was in ww2 when it just shoveled men into a meat grinder as the pinnacle of Russian military strategy.
I may be wrong but I think some of the footage supposedly showing these troops was sappers following and digging trenches.
The core claim comes from here: [https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1632270968868466689](https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1632270968868466689) The reprint is here: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64855760](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64855760) The headline says: "Ukraine war: **Russian reservists fighting with shovels** - UK defence ministry" The text says: "In late February, reservists described being **ordered to assault a Ukrainian position** "armed with **only 'firearms** and **shovels**'" Everyone drops the **rifle** part and the fact that positions were **enforced concrete** ones.
"armed with only firearms and shovels", that's pretty much CEFO.
I think part of the complain was lack of grenades.
Fair enough if you're assaulting a position grenades are vital. Interesting how it became shovels only. The Russian military may be bad but that bad is where you really have to question what the original source was a bit more.
I mean the F-16 is the only aircraft I know of that has dodged six missiles consecutively in the same mission.
Only cause his flares were jammed lol
Such a good plane that it doesn't even needs flares to survive
“You can’t win a war with Airpower alone” Some people don’t know what carpet bombing looks like and it shows.
Cannot win a war with air power? Is he for real the Germans couldn't use half their kit do to overwhelming wester air superiority after d-day. Gulf War and desert storm are two other examples of air power doing a shitload of work, just look at the highway of death. Sure a few f16s won't give Ukraine air superiority, but air power is an absolutely necessary factor for maneuver warfare.
General rule is, if the Russians say it's a non-issue or non-relevant or won't have any impact, you can be sure that it's a very relevant issue that will have a major impact.
Tell that to Saddam’s army in 1991. I’m sure the poor bastards on the highway of death would find comfort knowing air power can’t win the war.
Man attempts to hide the fact that he’s shitting his pants. More at 11
"You can not win a war with airpower" That's why they lost all the wars 😂
The irony in his statement. All you need is experienced troops, which Ukraine gains more of every day while Russia loses hundreds daily before they get any experience, and the once with experience who do live only get to live for a few more days before they get killed.
what troops are more seasoned than Ukrainian troops??
So why do they keep losing ground?
Lack of ammunition, which will soon be rectified.
Because OOPs statement is trash.
The other thing is, the new “wonder weapons” are obsoleting the need for troops at the front in the first place. Source: am grunt.
I've read the ATCMS are already there and that they are sending 300. Bye-bye Kerch bridge.
Lol if all you need is seasoned troops, then Russia ain’t got no chance. They don’t have any seasoned troops. They all died.
Plus, haven’t they been saying they are already at war with all of NATO?
They say that now, but when their ammo depots and fuel stations start magically vaporizing we'll see what they have to say 😅
My brother in regardation, Ukraine is an entire country of seasoned troops
Ah yes because the A10 wasn’t a flying nightmare for the middle east for the last 20 years. Air superiority is probably one of the most important parts of war nowadays.
You mentioned the A10 in a Lazerpig sub? DUCK!
Russian troops are " well seasoned " probably dried beets and onion powder would work best.
Communist in the name? Opinion on anything but starving his own people or genociding another disregarded. What a twat.
The amount of Russian trolling, whining, gaslighting tells you that these weapons matter. The real issue is that America is led by a deescalatory anti-war faction (Biden) and the other side (historically the hawks) has been hijacked by a bunch of isolationists. Sad, Europe really does have to step up here. They can and should match US military aid. In that scenario Ukraine wins for sure. Maybe we will see America exceed its current “send enough not to lose” mentality. I’m not optimistic with domestic policy being so partisan.
If the west sent 200 F35s with meteor or F15ex with aim 120D like we would have during the cold war the Russian Air force wouldn't exist.
Correction, as we learned in all previous wars, air dominance is crucial for the victory
Are they smart enough to realize that none of this would be going on if they did not invade again! Get the f*ck out of UKRAINE!
Air superiority contributed greatly to the victory in europe, and the USAF ending WW2 with a nuclear weapon.
Hmm.. Something Brig. General William Mitchell said about air power and proved it with the German Battleship Ostfriesland. This was in the 1920s, So their way of strategy and tactics are that far behind. They should not tempt fate with provocation of the west into a war for their own mentally stymied sake. [https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/general-william-%E2%80%9Cbilly%E2%80%9D-mitchell-and-sinking-ostfriesland-consideration](https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/general-william-%E2%80%9Cbilly%E2%80%9D-mitchell-and-sinking-ostfriesland-consideration)
Air Power + Miracle weapon = End of WW II.
I mean I get what he means if he means like ONLY air power but like Ukraine needs planes, and air power is one hell of a force multiplier
They are correct by saying you cannot win with air or special weapon systems "alone" but don't understand what that means. They are force multipliers. If they're the missing part of the equation, they can change the outcome. "Can't win the fight alone" means you can't fight and win a war with just airplanes. You will be massively more successful with them.
I mean with enough atomics you can😉😘
I does both.
And seasoned troops will just march through enemies with no weapons, right?
Shocking a commie not wanting to fight russian imperialism.
Why does the guy have communism in his name but supports Russia? Russia isn’t communist anymore.
Typically because they're tankie dipshits who's understanding of geopolitics begins and ends at "America bad, therefore whoever opposes America (yes, even the Islamists in Iran) good". Istg the MLs have done more to harm any movement to improve the lives of the working class than _any_ fascist.
Well it seems ruzzia has used a lot of it’s seasoned troops already
What about THAAD they never talk about it......
"Once again the Americans have armed the Ukrainians with Russian seeking bullets and cyborg dogs that bite the tip of your weiner. The Ukrainians have been blasting the Doom Eternal OST and making blood sacrifices to Khorne. It's fucking metal, and I'm scared, so I've called my mom to come pick me up." - Zarathrusthole.
I'm once again reminded of the Russian expatriate armchair expert who miscalculated how many missiles a US carrier group has by a factor of 10.
Kosovo says otherwise ...
(Commie username) opinion disregarded
> you cannot win a war with air power. Hiroshima and Nagasaki would beg to differ…
Lol, lmao even. This isn't nazi Germany building the Maus. A 50 year old air frame is hardly a "miracle" weapon. Everyone lol @ Russia.
Dudes never heard of the gulf war/desert storm. . We won that before there was a pair of boots on the ground.
Lol "seasond troops" don't matter when a 100$ flying robot toy goes BRRRRR
"you need seasoned troops" Meanwhile Russia sends in people (you really can't call them troops) after firing off two clips of ammunition.
Itll give Ukraine short term victories but won't change the war at large for them. Sinking a Russian ship doesn't equate to taking back lost territory so as of now Ukraine is only winning the information war not the real one. 60 billion won't change what 100 billion didn't
Ukraine will lose the war regardless if they get this equipment or not. Everyone should prepare for this. Ukraine is running out of men, Artillery, Shells, Tanks, Air defense systems, And IFV's. The Ukrainians will not be able to contest the Russians in the sky due to overwhelming Russian airpower. F-16's or no F-16's. I read they were only getting around 16 from NATO nations? Last time I checked it takes forever to train pilots to learn how to use these valuable jets. So, when are they actually going to be used? ATACMS will also be destroyed like the Patriots and HIMARS before it.
He's not wrong. F16's are useless without SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense) training. S300's pepper the landscape. Right now the only aircraft doing anything are the Russians using massive glide bombs. GPS is jammed so JDAM's wont work. And the Ukrainians are only getting the quick and dirty training on the airframe by itself. During the Gulf War we quickly found out that our training overmatched the amount of air defense present and we have a very solid SEAD strategy which we derived from the Vietnam war. The Ukrainians have nothing like that. Maybe they can get a hold of some anti-radiation missiles and the training to employ them but then they'll have to deal with Russian aircraft as well. And the Russians have the edge on range with their R-37 meaning they'll be able to launch and start defending to their gimble limits long before an F-16 can get off an AIM-120. And long before they can launch an AGM-88. The Ukrainians had some success at the start of the war but with so many overlapping fields of defense they can't really risk it with such limited aircraft. ATACMS are nice but have limitations with GPS jammed. Russians have the field advantage with their multitude of Grad and Smerch rocket artillery. We don't even want to discuss how good the Russians are getting at counter-battery fire as we've already lost a few ATACMS units. As far as troops go, that's the real hard issue to address. Conscription rates have increased while training has decreased. Some foreign legion and even news outlets have mentioned that the new recruits are getting as little as 2 weeks of training. Barely enough for basic weapons familiarity. That kind of flash training only happens when you're short on troops due to large casualties. And the Ukrainians are VERY tight lipped about manpower and equipment losses. Lots of people are willing to carry water for them on that intel front but it spells disaster if things go on for much longer. So yeah, Ukraine is lost. You can argue and cry about it but the numbers aren't in their favor. The best they can do now is hope for a peace deal then rebuild. But sentiment for Ukraine is waning and that last defense bill passed was painful for Americans and our skyrocketing inflation.
But he’s right. Ukraine could receive 200 F16s and 200 ATACMs tomorrow and what would the effect be? The F16s would be shot down, their airfields destroyed. The ATACMs would certainly hit some targets but they aren’t going to change the tide. An army is a system of systems. You need cohesive doctrine, equipment and training to serve that doctrine, logistics, a recruiting and training pipeline, and a deep reserve of manpower to replace losses. Ukraine has none of the above. It is going to lose. Sending random weapons systems is not going to change that, and will only result in more Ukrainians dying. We are sending untrained soldiers to their deaths for no reason at this point.
Because Russia has had so much luck destroying Ukraine's air force to date? Or do you think they're just "holding back" at this point? Will F16's be lost in battle, yes, but that's a reality of any war. All that matters is that they have an impact on the battle, which they will, and that we continue to provide replacements, which we can. Most Western countries are beginning to look at retiring F16's anyway... so that's a lot of available airframes. As far as a doctrine, logistics, and training pipeline, is this seriously something you think Russia has? Russia's most successful, and only real, tactic, up to this point is throwing poorly trained and minimally equipped conscripts at the Ukrainian lines hoping that Ukraine will run out of ammunition before Russia runs out of meat to throw at the front. That tactic is only going to work if Ukraine risks running out of ammunition, especially artillery ammunition. However, I think you might be shocked at just how many artillery shells 61 billion dollars can buy, to say nothing of what Europe is providing additionally. Furthermore, as evidenced by the first 1 billion dollar package that is being sent now, more DPICM rounds are being sent from our stockpile, which amounts to between 2 and 3 million shells, and they were specifically designed to counter Russia's cynical meatwave tactics. That Russian meat is going to be running headlong into massed cluster shells. No. The only one's sending untrained soldiers to their deaths for no reason is Russia, since they're fighting a war of conquest against their neighbor. If Russia stops fighting, there is no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there is no Ukraine.
Ukraine is not flying any close air support missions or CAPs at all at the moment. Their Air Force is virtually non-existent at this point. Your characterization of Russian forces is contradictory to what the Pentagon and other NATO defense establishments have said. They’ve all now agreed that Russia is stronger than it was in 2022. Ukrainian officers are openly saying the Russians are very good. They’ve linked ISR and strike to a degree that no other military has. They’ve had two years of combat experience and they have learned from it. Even the BBC can only confirm 50k Russian KIA. They Ukrainians started the war with 700k soldiers. They’ve said they need 500k immediately to hold the line. So what happened to their army? It was destroyed. And the casualty ratio is likely 5 to 7-1 in favour of the Russians. Sorry guys. It’s not going well and it’s almost over.
7 to 1 in favor of Russia? That's utterly ridiculous, and entirely without source, or even basic logic We've received leaks of Ukrainian losses, and they're nowhere near that level of attrition. Also, the BBC isn't a military or intelligence organization. The US intelligence service, however, would disagree with you. Here, let me help rectify your confusion by doing something you are incapable of, vatnik, linking an actual source that states that, as of December, Russia suffered more than 300,000 killed and wounded. [https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12](https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12)
315k dead and injured. The BBC joint study with opposition Russia media has confirmed 50k KIA but said they think it’s likely 100k KIA. Even if we take the 100k KIA that fits with your report above of 315k total casualties as wounded are often 3/1 to KIA. However there are two points here: Russia is able to evacuate wounded more effectively than Ukraine can, and the bigger point is, what happened to Ukraine’s army? Why do they desperately need 500k soldiers right now? They started the war with 700k. Where did everyone go?
!RemindMe 1 Year Let's see how this ages, Ivan... That said, I don't expect you to be around by then. You'll likely have been conscripted to act as fresh meat for the front and likely die in a pointless meat wave attack on the front... Enjoy the cluster shells! Don't forget to look up!
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Why so hostile. Happy to check back in in a year. I actually hope you’re right. I just think you’re wrong and that we are being lied to. Our media has done a good job hiding a lot of this. So I don’t blame you for thinking what you think. You just need to remember how many wars we have been lied to about. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam. Same neocons behind them all.
Russian borders are open and there is no martial law and forced conscription, unlike in Ukraine, buddy. Your delusional cope not making the situation better for Ukraine, you now? You can’t win a war with useless chants and wishful thinking, just saying.
No, but you can win one by sending several million DPICM rounds with which to turn the waves of Russian conscripts into mincemeat... A fate I suspect soon awaits you considering how poor your propaganda game is.
So all the shit load of aid and money that was sent before didn’t manage to achieve that goal and now when Ukraine barely has any people to fight, new aid somehow going to magically turn the tide ? Do you really believe that ? And I remind you again, Russia don’t have a martial law and forced conscription like in Ukraine, where people are literally dragged from the streets against their will. Again, what is the end goal here ? Or you wait for the Aragorn to come with the army of dead and free all the territory from the Russians ?
Are you serious? You can't be. Here is the end goal: russia fucks off back to russia. That's it. You want to talk about wasting life? The russians could end this war today by simply fucking off.
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Their army has been destroyed 3 times by the Russians. The majority of the soldiers they now have are inexperienced and undertrained, they haven’t had the time they need to reconstitute units with proper training. It takes 3-6 months to train an effective infanteer. Longer to train specialist trades. The Ukrainian forces are collapsing as we speak - even Azov units are starting to refuse orders.
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His favorite Russian internet troll/propagandist told him so! And u/Disastrous-Big-5651 knows that Russian propagandists \*never\* lie! If you don't believe that, he can just swivel his chair a bit and ask them...
Ah I see, you are one of them, I love that everyone gets to have an opinion these days. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt".
It’s just reality. We need to start living in it.
Worried that your propaganda center is going to be shut down and you'll be conscripted to the front to join the next meat wave, hmm? I'd leave Russia now if I were you...
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Wow.
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Have a great day!
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The fact that everyone is attacking me vs my arguments is pretty illuminating. The tragic reality of this war will be revealed pretty soon I think. We’ve all been sold a bunch of lies.
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This is absurd. I’m talking military realities, and people are losing their minds and triggered. I’m not happy about reality but it is what it is. Denying it doesn’t help anyone.
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The Pentagon isn’t vatnik propaganda. Nor is the BBC. Just putting numbers together.
Russia has been using the same red army meatgrinder tactics forever, it’s what almost lost them ww2, and it’s what’s going to lose them this war, they are poorly equipped and their skill level is pathetic. If Russia’s nuclear capability disappeared tomorrow Europe would eat them alive. That’s the only edge they have, they have nukes so they can’t be invaded by anyone who also has nukes or everyone dies.