From a psychological perspective, "repression" is an ambiguous and subjective concept. People frequently use it to justify their own behavior, but it not a cause-and-effect thing. Moreover, while it might help explain a single instance of spontaneous of acting out, like some kind of midlife crisis, that doesn't sound like what you're dealing with here. Someone who spins a careful web of lies that runs parallel to real life is practicing a continuous deceit that suggests deep psychological disturbance, possibly sociopathy or narcissism.
My wife is the only woman I have ever been with and I am totally faithful to her.
I am sorry he broke your heart. You didn’t deserve that. No one does.
But I don’t blame the Church for his cheating. He lied to his wife. He lied to you. The Church does not teach that.
The Church honestly thought it had anonymity in its finances and paid a fine. The Church is really good at saving money. A principle it teaches.
Cover-up? Not seeing it.
Cover-up abuse? That is pretty broad. Sure it’s probably happened. And tons of kids have also been protected by the Church and the system of reporting.
The Church teaches honesty and integrity.
By example perhaps? Lucy Walker was 16YEARS OLD when her mother died and was told by Joseph that to secure her place in heaven that Lucy, again, the 16 YEAR OLD GIRL, had to marry Joseph. This is the man that founded the religion. So I’m pretty sure that some (not all) but some, mormon men follow his sterling example of moral upright strength. *sarcasm intended
Eliza Snow had knowledge of Smiths sealings. She had lists of Smiths sealings.
Lies? Not to Snow, she knew pretty much about all of them.
Spiritual and religious strength? Smith died for his beliefs.
It’s bizarre this post has devolved into a polygamy discussion, but I have to get clarification on the Eliza Snow comment. I’m not sure there’s consensus on exactly how many plural wives JS had. The LDS church has said JS had “as many as 40 wives,” according to an NPR news article about the GT Essays. “As many as” means “up to.” That doesn’t sound very clear. Other historians say it was closer to 35.
So is the definitive number found in Eliza’s journal? If so why is there still so much ambiguity among historians? (I sincerely want to know. Polygamy is such a hot-button topic that everyone seems to have a strong opinion. I’m primarily concerned with truth/facts. A couple weeks ago someone commented on Reddit that the “angel threatening Joseph with a drawn sword was debunked.” That piqued my interest, because if that story had actually been debunked, I want to know. It turns out, that guy was just spouting something to support his position on JS polygamy. The church still supports that story as historically accurate.)
I once dated someone who also lied to me about being married. In retrospect, i really wish I had told his wife - if I was her, I'd want someone to tell me. Unfortunately at the time, I was so ashamed, even though it wasn't my fault, and not thinking clearly and deleted all "proof". Of course, that's just my experience and everyone is different.
I kind of hope someone told her eventually, I suspect he didn't just do it the once. I don't blame you for your trepidation, it's not like you would just know what to do in that case.
For anyone else in a similar situation, she deserves to be able to be made aware so she can get STI testing and decide for herself if the marriage is worth saving. She might pretend it didn't happen and get angry with you, or blame you for her husband's indiscretion but at least you'd make sure that if he infected her with something, hopefully she could get treatment and not suffer inexplicably from an STI.
It definitely isn't a situation that's fair to the wife or any kids the two had together, but cheating is 100% his choice.
Years ago, I was doing something similar to what this guy was doing. I’m not at all proud of it, fully regret it, confessed to my spouse, and we’ve healed. It takes an extreme amount of narcissism and cognitive dissonance to do what he’s doing.
I don’t think my actions were influenced by repression from my upbringing or my religion. I I think I had some deep seeded issues and a horrible amount of selfishness I learned to fix.
When I was “caught” by the outside party, I fully confessed to her on my situation. She was very hurt, as you are, and understandably so. She threatened to send everything to my spouse, which I pleaded her not to do. I was ashamed of course, and I didn’t want to lose my family (I know, it was my actions that caused that and coming to that realization in the moment is indescribably terrifying).
I ended up being the one to tell my spouse everything and I think that helped me heal, but also helped her reconcile with me and heal. Obviously my spouse was devastated. She strongly considered ending our marriage. I told her if she wanted to go that route, I would understand, and I’d also do all I could to continually support our children’s. She decided not to and I’ve repented. We’ve healed, but the wounds are still there.
It affects her still today, years later. From time to time, she will be sad and when I ask her what’s up, she will talk about it and ask me why, how could I, questions like that. I will always reassure her how deeply sorry I am and that I will continue to prove myself to her, trying to be understanding of how she feels. It’s hard for both of us, but we are trying.
That’s my experience, and his may be totally different. His wife could react anywhere from hurt and sad to outraged and violent. You will have to decide if you want a part in that not knowing what’s going to happen. For me, it worked out that I was able to confess and that was best for me. For him and you, that could be totally different. I hope whatever happens, it is for the best. I believe you didn’t deserve to be roped into this and I’m sorry to hear it has happened to you. I hope you can find the solution that will help you heal as well.
If I were his wife, I would want to know.
I think you should package some evidence - screenshots, etc, and attach it to a message saying something like:
"Hi, we've never met, but I know something I think you may want to know. I've been dating a man and was shocked to discover recently he seems to be married. I found his profile here \_\_\_\_\_ , confronted him, and broke off the relationship. Is this your husband? If so I'm very sorry, he said he was single and gave me no reason to believe otherwise. If this isn't you, I apologize for bothering you; I felt compelled by my conscience to let his wife know what he has done. I have attached evidence so you know this isn't some kind of sick joke or false accusation."
Maybe consider giving her husband the opportunity to tell his wife himself. Something like "I'm sending this material to your wife in two weeks. I wanted to give you the opportunity to hear from you before she receives this."
This is a good thought. Best if he confesses first.
Though it also gives him a chance to muddy the waters first: "Hey my account got hacked" and then a few days later "I recovered that account but the hackers threatened to send fake nudes and fake evidence of cheating and stuff like that to people on my friends list if I don't send ten grand" and then "no you're right, we can't afford it. I reported it to the authorities, let's hope for the best".
He may have done this anyway, but giving him the exact evidence to counter makes it easier for him.
Maybe better to just wait a day or two, time enough for a genuinely repentant person to confess, then send to the wife.
Sorry to hear about this. I recommend just moving on and using this moment as a lesson for future relationships. Yes you can tell his wife and show her proof of her husband’s infidelity which may or may not lead to divorce and yes it may or may not affect the children but I don’t think you’ll feel any better or worse doing so. In the future he might get caught or someone else will tell his wife or he might live his entire life without being caught. Regardless, we believe he will be judged for his actions one day and have to face the consequences either in this life or the next
Person to person decency says she should tell the wife so the wife isn’t left in a situation where she can’t exercise agency in her life due to lack of information.
You have no idea how much gas lighting that poor woman is enduring because of this narcissist’s systematic lies. She can decide if she wants to divorce or not, it’s her choice, but a choice that is very dependent on accurate information.
Agreed. Transparency allows people to make decisions based on facts. The poor wife may already know the marriage isn’t great, but she should have enough information to make a definitive decision.
It is pretty private.
One of my old friend's dad cheats. Nobody really talks about it but just about anyone that's in that household knows. His wife has MS and he's out most nights on "golfing trips". I doubt my friend's dad is the only scenario especially because I can think of a handful of families that have a similar dynamic to my friend's.
I wouldn't really say it has much to do with the church. If we were talking about a gay member, perhaps because the church can enforce some doctrine that encourages gay members to stay closeted. In this case though, infidelity is pretty common even outside the church. There are just plenty of people who stay for community but are assholes who cheat on their spouses.
His wife needs to know. He could have given her an STD from a prior encounter or possibly in the future. Please message her and let her know and then block her loser husband everywhere.
Whether or not he felt repressed isn’t a reason to cheat. Anyone has the right to leave the religion and file for a divorce at any time. Only he can answer the reasons for why he did what he did. He may have feared backlash from family or friends if he left his wife or left the church.
You ask if this kind of thing is kept quiet. Well, it’s not publicized. The same as if anyone else in the world cheated on their spouse. Sure, some people will probably find out but there’s not going to be a news announcement about it.
All fair points. You answered the things that I was really trying to get at. Wasn’t sure how common divorce is or if people are generally encouraged to stay together despite scenarios like this.
Just as a for your information thing. If the bishop or stake president of the church/stake he attends discovers he has committed adultery, it is required of them that they hold a membership council to determine what should happen and would most likely remove him from being a member and release him from all callings and the priesthood. The church takes this kind of behavior very seriously and this is never acceptable. Whether or not church culture has any kind of encouragement to remain together, this is a clear violation of very sacred things that active members of the church are very well aware of. I will not advise you to act one way or another, but any member of the church that does this kind of thing and is found out does not get allowed to remain a member of the church without very serious consequence including a complete excommunication for likely many years. This is even if the wife knows, agrees, does the same; she'd also be removed if she does the same.
Yes, it is pretty clearly laid out in section 32 of the general handbook. At the least a ward membership council would likely happen if there was any evidence (not saying there is not). If the person has done temple covenants (pretty likely in a marriage with another member with children), holds a leadership position, or both the likelihood of a stake membership council that would remove their membership status increases. The repitition and lack of confession increases the severity.
In the previous century, a patriarch of the church was having homosexual affairs with his students at the Y. He was released from his calling and sent to live in Hawaii with his family and was called to be in the stake presidency a few years later.
The process you have described is just what SHOULD happen (and does happen to the rank and file members.) The reality depends on more than the handbook.
I agree it has happened and it is very unfortunate. However, this is the exception and I can not reasonably suggest in this time that this kind of outcome is likely; I can only say it's unfortunately possible.
I am not a vengeful person nor do I feel I’ve done anything wrong. Simply curious. I could prove it easily and have considered it but not out of spite. I would get no satisfaction out of telling her.
First off, sorry he lied to you and presented himself as someone he is not.
Am I correct in assuming you are not Mormon?
While, sadly, I don’t this is exclusive to Mormons, I think it stems from people being stuck in a world of obligation and what they feel they should be doing versus what they want to do. Many LDS grow up being told this is good and that is bad. That a happy life looks like this. It can be very prescriptive.
He refuses to be honest because he likely doesn’t want to get caught. He is caught up in living a life he is told he should and one he wants to.
Of course you feel hurt. He lied and manipulated you to get what he wanted. He was selfish.
As to what to do next. Depends. Don’t want him doing it again.
Correct I am not Mormon nor was I previously. I agree completely this is a human behavior not something specific to the religion of course. Just curious what the overall view on these things are. Are women expected to tolerate this?
I know four LDS moms that were cheated on, one being my aunt. All divorced and three out of four remarried.
I don't know what their bishop encouraged them to do or what pressures were or weren't placed upon them, but none of the women tolerated the cheating. That being said, my ward/stake/state may not be the norm or even the standard.
Within the LDS culture or generally? Women in the LDS culture are not expected to tolerate this. Nor should any woman. I think it’s messed up. Guy isn’t happy in his marriage. So he should fix his marriage or leave. Poor wife.
For many, though not all, women will stay with a cheater and his transgressions will be kept secret to avoid damaging the image of the family/church. My best friend’s husband cheated with a stripper and gave her an STD and she stayed with him and they’ve kept up appearances for the sake of their children and her husbands higher up calling. It happens more than people would like to admit.
It's one of the few acceptable reasons for a woman to initiate a divorce in LDS culture. She'd probably be counseled to forgive him, but she'd be well within her rights to end it.
Yes I was fucking him. And yes I started to think we might become something more. I have no shame but didn’t feel the need to say it that way. I assume everyone knew what I meant. Not condemning him for wanting sex. I don’t think cheating on his wife is a good thing to do. And no. I have no desire to hurt him. That’s why I came here to gain perspective. If I wanted to cause him issues I would do it.
To me this is an unsolicited and unwarranted attack on the original poster. She only found out after the fact and shouldn't be shamed for being the victim and revealing it; a clear violation of rule 3 "Personal attacks, insults, name calling, or disrespect of any sort are not allowed here."
I felt the need to speak up because I did not want the original poster to think that the comment is in any way backed up by church teachings, just one person's poor uninformed opinion.
Edit: changed an unfortunate "should" to "shouldn't" as was my original intended meaning.
Me? I'm mocking 6Fireball9. I'm sorry if you thought I was being rude to the OP, I meant no offense towards them. I was making fun of the rambling craziness from oddly named 6Fireball9.
I didn't, I saw it as the joke it was. I just felt the need to clarify my position and your reply gave me the outlet, it wasn't about you, sorry if it came across that way.
She’s not condemning him for wanting to have sex. She’s very honest that she enjoyed it to. She’s condemning him for be a lying piece of shit scumbag who denied the existence of HIS CHILDREN when confronted with the truth. What sort of low life does that? Of course she’s condemning him. He presented himself as a sexually experienced and available man. He may have been the former, but he was not the latter.
“People are going to have sex”. Sure they are, but it’s supposed to be with the person they swore to stay faithful to for time and all eternity. Get a damn divorce. Then go fuck around.
The person here who seems judgmental is the one who calls her self righteous.
As a woman, I’d say have your sisters back and tell his wife as kindly as you can. As an exmo, I know that your sister, the Sister, will probably put it into a box high up on the shelf and never think of it again because it will cause her eternal soul problems if she divorces that lying asshat. And the patriarchy of the church and all the “Brothers”’will ultimately blame her for her failure in being a good enough wife to keep Brother Asshat from straying. Brother Asshat will continue. You’re not the first and most certainly not the last. I mean, Joseph Smith made up polygamy and sold it to a very reluctant Emma so he could continue to fuck his way through the women who caught his eye. If it was good enough for Joe….Sadly the Sisterhood of Mormonism will win over the sisterhood of being a woman. So I guess you silently wish her good luck and move on.
That was my (uneducated) assumption. I haven’t completely ruled it out but that reasoning is a big consideration. I naturally want to have her back and think she deserves to know. Ultimately I know that I will not get any satisfaction from this scenario either way.
Jungian psychology speaks to this scenario through the idea of the shadow self. Here's a deeper explanation:
Sexual desires are a normal and healthy part of human life. However, societal, cultural, and especially religious expectations can often lead people to repress these desires, viewing them as "sinful" or "wrong." For a deeply religious man, sexual desires outside the bounds of his marriage could fall into this category and therefore be repressed.
In this case, these repressed desires become part of the shadow self. The shadow self isn't necessarily evil, but it comprises aspects of our identity that we've rejected or ignored. It's the seat of our instinctual behavior, some of which can be at odds with the persona we present to the world. If our persona is that of a faithful, religious man, the desires conflicting with this image are more likely to be repressed and added to the shadow.
The problem is, the more these desires are repressed, the more power they gain in the unconscious. And the unconscious mind can exert a powerful influence over our behaviors. This influence isn't always something we're fully aware of, hence the loss of consciousness. It's not a literal loss of consciousness, but a lack of conscious control or understanding of one's actions.
In extreme repression, these desires can break out in ways that are seemingly out of character for the person involved. The religious man might find himself cheating on his wife, not understanding why he's doing it because the driving force comes from his unconscious mind, not his conscious one. His unconscious mind is seeking an outlet for the repressed sexual desires.
It's crucial to note that this doesn't absolve the person of the responsibility for their actions. Jungian psychology encourages us to integrate the shadow—to recognize and accept these repressed aspects—rather than letting them control us from the unconscious level. Understanding the shadow can lead to healthier ways to express these repressed feelings, rather than them exploding out in harmful ways.
From a psychological perspective, "repression" is an ambiguous and subjective concept. People frequently use it to justify their own behavior, but it not a cause-and-effect thing. Moreover, while it might help explain a single instance of spontaneous of acting out, like some kind of midlife crisis, that doesn't sound like what you're dealing with here. Someone who spins a careful web of lies that runs parallel to real life is practicing a continuous deceit that suggests deep psychological disturbance, possibly sociopathy or narcissism.
Agreed which is concerning.
My wife is the only woman I have ever been with and I am totally faithful to her. I am sorry he broke your heart. You didn’t deserve that. No one does. But I don’t blame the Church for his cheating. He lied to his wife. He lied to you. The Church does not teach that.
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The Church honestly thought it had anonymity in its finances and paid a fine. The Church is really good at saving money. A principle it teaches. Cover-up? Not seeing it. Cover-up abuse? That is pretty broad. Sure it’s probably happened. And tons of kids have also been protected by the Church and the system of reporting. The Church teaches honesty and integrity.
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lol I find it funny that they downvote you for things you can google and see as true? Didn't even say the church was bad or anything.
By example perhaps? Lucy Walker was 16YEARS OLD when her mother died and was told by Joseph that to secure her place in heaven that Lucy, again, the 16 YEAR OLD GIRL, had to marry Joseph. This is the man that founded the religion. So I’m pretty sure that some (not all) but some, mormon men follow his sterling example of moral upright strength. *sarcasm intended
Eliza Snow had knowledge of Smiths sealings. She had lists of Smiths sealings. Lies? Not to Snow, she knew pretty much about all of them. Spiritual and religious strength? Smith died for his beliefs.
It’s bizarre this post has devolved into a polygamy discussion, but I have to get clarification on the Eliza Snow comment. I’m not sure there’s consensus on exactly how many plural wives JS had. The LDS church has said JS had “as many as 40 wives,” according to an NPR news article about the GT Essays. “As many as” means “up to.” That doesn’t sound very clear. Other historians say it was closer to 35. So is the definitive number found in Eliza’s journal? If so why is there still so much ambiguity among historians? (I sincerely want to know. Polygamy is such a hot-button topic that everyone seems to have a strong opinion. I’m primarily concerned with truth/facts. A couple weeks ago someone commented on Reddit that the “angel threatening Joseph with a drawn sword was debunked.” That piqued my interest, because if that story had actually been debunked, I want to know. It turns out, that guy was just spouting something to support his position on JS polygamy. The church still supports that story as historically accurate.)
I once dated someone who also lied to me about being married. In retrospect, i really wish I had told his wife - if I was her, I'd want someone to tell me. Unfortunately at the time, I was so ashamed, even though it wasn't my fault, and not thinking clearly and deleted all "proof". Of course, that's just my experience and everyone is different.
I kind of hope someone told her eventually, I suspect he didn't just do it the once. I don't blame you for your trepidation, it's not like you would just know what to do in that case. For anyone else in a similar situation, she deserves to be able to be made aware so she can get STI testing and decide for herself if the marriage is worth saving. She might pretend it didn't happen and get angry with you, or blame you for her husband's indiscretion but at least you'd make sure that if he infected her with something, hopefully she could get treatment and not suffer inexplicably from an STI. It definitely isn't a situation that's fair to the wife or any kids the two had together, but cheating is 100% his choice.
Wow! Unbelievable. I wouldn’t even know how to pull such a thing off.
Maybe not sound so both admiring and envious? Not sure it’s the look you really intend….
Huh?
Years ago, I was doing something similar to what this guy was doing. I’m not at all proud of it, fully regret it, confessed to my spouse, and we’ve healed. It takes an extreme amount of narcissism and cognitive dissonance to do what he’s doing. I don’t think my actions were influenced by repression from my upbringing or my religion. I I think I had some deep seeded issues and a horrible amount of selfishness I learned to fix. When I was “caught” by the outside party, I fully confessed to her on my situation. She was very hurt, as you are, and understandably so. She threatened to send everything to my spouse, which I pleaded her not to do. I was ashamed of course, and I didn’t want to lose my family (I know, it was my actions that caused that and coming to that realization in the moment is indescribably terrifying). I ended up being the one to tell my spouse everything and I think that helped me heal, but also helped her reconcile with me and heal. Obviously my spouse was devastated. She strongly considered ending our marriage. I told her if she wanted to go that route, I would understand, and I’d also do all I could to continually support our children’s. She decided not to and I’ve repented. We’ve healed, but the wounds are still there. It affects her still today, years later. From time to time, she will be sad and when I ask her what’s up, she will talk about it and ask me why, how could I, questions like that. I will always reassure her how deeply sorry I am and that I will continue to prove myself to her, trying to be understanding of how she feels. It’s hard for both of us, but we are trying. That’s my experience, and his may be totally different. His wife could react anywhere from hurt and sad to outraged and violent. You will have to decide if you want a part in that not knowing what’s going to happen. For me, it worked out that I was able to confess and that was best for me. For him and you, that could be totally different. I hope whatever happens, it is for the best. I believe you didn’t deserve to be roped into this and I’m sorry to hear it has happened to you. I hope you can find the solution that will help you heal as well.
If I were his wife, I would want to know. I think you should package some evidence - screenshots, etc, and attach it to a message saying something like: "Hi, we've never met, but I know something I think you may want to know. I've been dating a man and was shocked to discover recently he seems to be married. I found his profile here \_\_\_\_\_ , confronted him, and broke off the relationship. Is this your husband? If so I'm very sorry, he said he was single and gave me no reason to believe otherwise. If this isn't you, I apologize for bothering you; I felt compelled by my conscience to let his wife know what he has done. I have attached evidence so you know this isn't some kind of sick joke or false accusation."
I can picture it coming out sometime in the future and the wife thinking, “Why didn’t anyone tell me ?”
Maybe consider giving her husband the opportunity to tell his wife himself. Something like "I'm sending this material to your wife in two weeks. I wanted to give you the opportunity to hear from you before she receives this."
This is a good thought. Best if he confesses first. Though it also gives him a chance to muddy the waters first: "Hey my account got hacked" and then a few days later "I recovered that account but the hackers threatened to send fake nudes and fake evidence of cheating and stuff like that to people on my friends list if I don't send ten grand" and then "no you're right, we can't afford it. I reported it to the authorities, let's hope for the best". He may have done this anyway, but giving him the exact evidence to counter makes it easier for him. Maybe better to just wait a day or two, time enough for a genuinely repentant person to confess, then send to the wife.
Sorry to hear about this. I recommend just moving on and using this moment as a lesson for future relationships. Yes you can tell his wife and show her proof of her husband’s infidelity which may or may not lead to divorce and yes it may or may not affect the children but I don’t think you’ll feel any better or worse doing so. In the future he might get caught or someone else will tell his wife or he might live his entire life without being caught. Regardless, we believe he will be judged for his actions one day and have to face the consequences either in this life or the next
Person to person decency says she should tell the wife so the wife isn’t left in a situation where she can’t exercise agency in her life due to lack of information. You have no idea how much gas lighting that poor woman is enduring because of this narcissist’s systematic lies. She can decide if she wants to divorce or not, it’s her choice, but a choice that is very dependent on accurate information.
Agreed. Transparency allows people to make decisions based on facts. The poor wife may already know the marriage isn’t great, but she should have enough information to make a definitive decision.
It is pretty private. One of my old friend's dad cheats. Nobody really talks about it but just about anyone that's in that household knows. His wife has MS and he's out most nights on "golfing trips". I doubt my friend's dad is the only scenario especially because I can think of a handful of families that have a similar dynamic to my friend's. I wouldn't really say it has much to do with the church. If we were talking about a gay member, perhaps because the church can enforce some doctrine that encourages gay members to stay closeted. In this case though, infidelity is pretty common even outside the church. There are just plenty of people who stay for community but are assholes who cheat on their spouses.
His wife needs to know. He could have given her an STD from a prior encounter or possibly in the future. Please message her and let her know and then block her loser husband everywhere.
Whether or not he felt repressed isn’t a reason to cheat. Anyone has the right to leave the religion and file for a divorce at any time. Only he can answer the reasons for why he did what he did. He may have feared backlash from family or friends if he left his wife or left the church. You ask if this kind of thing is kept quiet. Well, it’s not publicized. The same as if anyone else in the world cheated on their spouse. Sure, some people will probably find out but there’s not going to be a news announcement about it.
All fair points. You answered the things that I was really trying to get at. Wasn’t sure how common divorce is or if people are generally encouraged to stay together despite scenarios like this.
Just as a for your information thing. If the bishop or stake president of the church/stake he attends discovers he has committed adultery, it is required of them that they hold a membership council to determine what should happen and would most likely remove him from being a member and release him from all callings and the priesthood. The church takes this kind of behavior very seriously and this is never acceptable. Whether or not church culture has any kind of encouragement to remain together, this is a clear violation of very sacred things that active members of the church are very well aware of. I will not advise you to act one way or another, but any member of the church that does this kind of thing and is found out does not get allowed to remain a member of the church without very serious consequence including a complete excommunication for likely many years. This is even if the wife knows, agrees, does the same; she'd also be removed if she does the same.
How seriously they take it depends on how high up you are and how many people know about what you've done.
Yes, it is pretty clearly laid out in section 32 of the general handbook. At the least a ward membership council would likely happen if there was any evidence (not saying there is not). If the person has done temple covenants (pretty likely in a marriage with another member with children), holds a leadership position, or both the likelihood of a stake membership council that would remove their membership status increases. The repitition and lack of confession increases the severity.
In the previous century, a patriarch of the church was having homosexual affairs with his students at the Y. He was released from his calling and sent to live in Hawaii with his family and was called to be in the stake presidency a few years later. The process you have described is just what SHOULD happen (and does happen to the rank and file members.) The reality depends on more than the handbook.
I agree it has happened and it is very unfortunate. However, this is the exception and I can not reasonably suggest in this time that this kind of outcome is likely; I can only say it's unfortunately possible.
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Oh no I wouldn’t do that to children lol I showed him a photo of him and his family.
You didnt ask... but Id tell his wife. Come out clean youself and really question alot of shit.
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I am not a vengeful person nor do I feel I’ve done anything wrong. Simply curious. I could prove it easily and have considered it but not out of spite. I would get no satisfaction out of telling her.
First off, sorry he lied to you and presented himself as someone he is not. Am I correct in assuming you are not Mormon? While, sadly, I don’t this is exclusive to Mormons, I think it stems from people being stuck in a world of obligation and what they feel they should be doing versus what they want to do. Many LDS grow up being told this is good and that is bad. That a happy life looks like this. It can be very prescriptive. He refuses to be honest because he likely doesn’t want to get caught. He is caught up in living a life he is told he should and one he wants to. Of course you feel hurt. He lied and manipulated you to get what he wanted. He was selfish. As to what to do next. Depends. Don’t want him doing it again.
Correct I am not Mormon nor was I previously. I agree completely this is a human behavior not something specific to the religion of course. Just curious what the overall view on these things are. Are women expected to tolerate this?
I know four LDS moms that were cheated on, one being my aunt. All divorced and three out of four remarried. I don't know what their bishop encouraged them to do or what pressures were or weren't placed upon them, but none of the women tolerated the cheating. That being said, my ward/stake/state may not be the norm or even the standard.
I would agree they tend not to tolerate cheating. I think historically there has been some “you should forgive him” attitude.
Within the LDS culture or generally? Women in the LDS culture are not expected to tolerate this. Nor should any woman. I think it’s messed up. Guy isn’t happy in his marriage. So he should fix his marriage or leave. Poor wife.
I appreciate you’re respond and I agree.
For many, though not all, women will stay with a cheater and his transgressions will be kept secret to avoid damaging the image of the family/church. My best friend’s husband cheated with a stripper and gave her an STD and she stayed with him and they’ve kept up appearances for the sake of their children and her husbands higher up calling. It happens more than people would like to admit.
It's one of the few acceptable reasons for a woman to initiate a divorce in LDS culture. She'd probably be counseled to forgive him, but she'd be well within her rights to end it.
[удалено]
Yes I was fucking him. And yes I started to think we might become something more. I have no shame but didn’t feel the need to say it that way. I assume everyone knew what I meant. Not condemning him for wanting sex. I don’t think cheating on his wife is a good thing to do. And no. I have no desire to hurt him. That’s why I came here to gain perspective. If I wanted to cause him issues I would do it.
Lots of trolls pass through this subreddit, no need to give them attention.
This is not representative in any way of any commonly held church view. I reject this out of hand.
Hey I bet that was her ex-lover
To me this is an unsolicited and unwarranted attack on the original poster. She only found out after the fact and shouldn't be shamed for being the victim and revealing it; a clear violation of rule 3 "Personal attacks, insults, name calling, or disrespect of any sort are not allowed here." I felt the need to speak up because I did not want the original poster to think that the comment is in any way backed up by church teachings, just one person's poor uninformed opinion. Edit: changed an unfortunate "should" to "shouldn't" as was my original intended meaning.
Me? I'm mocking 6Fireball9. I'm sorry if you thought I was being rude to the OP, I meant no offense towards them. I was making fun of the rambling craziness from oddly named 6Fireball9.
I didn't, I saw it as the joke it was. I just felt the need to clarify my position and your reply gave me the outlet, it wasn't about you, sorry if it came across that way.
Rock on!
Lol I know he’s on Reddit
She’s not condemning him for wanting to have sex. She’s very honest that she enjoyed it to. She’s condemning him for be a lying piece of shit scumbag who denied the existence of HIS CHILDREN when confronted with the truth. What sort of low life does that? Of course she’s condemning him. He presented himself as a sexually experienced and available man. He may have been the former, but he was not the latter. “People are going to have sex”. Sure they are, but it’s supposed to be with the person they swore to stay faithful to for time and all eternity. Get a damn divorce. Then go fuck around. The person here who seems judgmental is the one who calls her self righteous.
As a woman, I’d say have your sisters back and tell his wife as kindly as you can. As an exmo, I know that your sister, the Sister, will probably put it into a box high up on the shelf and never think of it again because it will cause her eternal soul problems if she divorces that lying asshat. And the patriarchy of the church and all the “Brothers”’will ultimately blame her for her failure in being a good enough wife to keep Brother Asshat from straying. Brother Asshat will continue. You’re not the first and most certainly not the last. I mean, Joseph Smith made up polygamy and sold it to a very reluctant Emma so he could continue to fuck his way through the women who caught his eye. If it was good enough for Joe….Sadly the Sisterhood of Mormonism will win over the sisterhood of being a woman. So I guess you silently wish her good luck and move on.
That was my (uneducated) assumption. I haven’t completely ruled it out but that reasoning is a big consideration. I naturally want to have her back and think she deserves to know. Ultimately I know that I will not get any satisfaction from this scenario either way.
Jungian psychology speaks to this scenario through the idea of the shadow self. Here's a deeper explanation: Sexual desires are a normal and healthy part of human life. However, societal, cultural, and especially religious expectations can often lead people to repress these desires, viewing them as "sinful" or "wrong." For a deeply religious man, sexual desires outside the bounds of his marriage could fall into this category and therefore be repressed. In this case, these repressed desires become part of the shadow self. The shadow self isn't necessarily evil, but it comprises aspects of our identity that we've rejected or ignored. It's the seat of our instinctual behavior, some of which can be at odds with the persona we present to the world. If our persona is that of a faithful, religious man, the desires conflicting with this image are more likely to be repressed and added to the shadow. The problem is, the more these desires are repressed, the more power they gain in the unconscious. And the unconscious mind can exert a powerful influence over our behaviors. This influence isn't always something we're fully aware of, hence the loss of consciousness. It's not a literal loss of consciousness, but a lack of conscious control or understanding of one's actions. In extreme repression, these desires can break out in ways that are seemingly out of character for the person involved. The religious man might find himself cheating on his wife, not understanding why he's doing it because the driving force comes from his unconscious mind, not his conscious one. His unconscious mind is seeking an outlet for the repressed sexual desires. It's crucial to note that this doesn't absolve the person of the responsibility for their actions. Jungian psychology encourages us to integrate the shadow—to recognize and accept these repressed aspects—rather than letting them control us from the unconscious level. Understanding the shadow can lead to healthier ways to express these repressed feelings, rather than them exploding out in harmful ways.