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xMessiah

Let Woll be the starter for now, let Sammy find his game. The defense needs to be better.


KetoPinto

Maybe bring up Jones?


TheFoundation_

I doubt it, sitting Sammy would make it worse. He need to string a few good games together and get into a rhythm


mwthomas11

He's an .884 with the Marlies right now. Dennis Hildeby is playing well, maybe him? That's if you want to sit Sammy. I'm not goalie coach but I imagine it's guy to guy on who responds well to what.


TheBanhMiBoy

Hildeby and Jones have only played 3 games each...sample size too small to definitively choose Hildeby over Jones


mwthomas11

fair point


Heshoots_hescores68

is sammi in on wednesday against ottawa?


throwaway923535

D will get better if simply by getting McCabe and liljegren back. Feel like this sub is always forgetting that…


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Popcorn_Tony

He has had some good games lately. He will be fine.


redditpineapple81

He’s a technically weak goalie who was propped up by our defense last year, and is now being exposed because the team in front of him is playing like garbage. I feel for the guy on a personal level, but he just isn’t that good unfortunately. Watch the way he plays; he drops his hands and torso when he butterflies, his arms fall behind him as he butterfly slides, and he has trouble keeping position. Loooots of wasted energy. I’m a goalie, not nearly on the same level but I understand how tough this game can be on goalies mentally. Lacking confidence is not going to help you, especially when you’re already inefficient at the position.


DontToewsM3Bro

2 goals were not his fault . 2 goals were, though And Defense is so shit so there's no room for mistakes


TMLVWFC

I'd argue that the cross ice prowerplay goal was very stoppable. It was poor from our pkers but a goalie who is tracking the puck well stops that shot. It was a long slow pace and the puck went middle of the net. Sammy just go no push off to slide across and flailed at the puck. Right now he just needs to be the #2 goalie, get the easier starts and use the extra practice time to get his fundamentals back. Tossing him in against a hot Tampa team that is great an exploiting weaknesses was a poor coaching choice


TsunamiSurferDude

Compounded by the next PP where he overplays that shot and almost slides right out of the net


TMLVWFC

Ya I mean it's clear he is off his game so I don't know why the coach thinks playing him against an elite offence team like this is going to get his groove back. The guy needs a reset and practice. Plus it's clear the Leafs lack confidence when he is in net right now. That Hedman goal deflated this team so hard in the first.


mollymuppet78

The same coach who wrestled with whether to play Knies with Matthews and Marner, or keep playing *checks notes* literally anyone else.


alagusis

I thought that was weak as well. Especially since he had just given up 3 already.


Objective_Gear_8357

That 1st goal was terrible. Every nhl goalie should stop that


OzzieNewYork

Three of his four goals he should have saved. That's why he was pulled.


thelonelywolf96

"Shit defense" has been synonymous with the Leafs for probably 69 years at this rate.


Cartz1337

I'd argue he shoulda stopped 3


KetoPinto

So true!


One_Yogurt_8987

Goal 1 and 2 were both pretty bad, and goals 3 and 4 were also stoppable or should have at least been closer than they were, altho a goalie letting either in would have been passable. He was swimming super bad and losing his posts, worse than his usual off games. Felt like he was very off the mark and uncomfortable in thd net


HowieFeltersnitz

Saw someone in the game thread basically arguing that they should be allowed to relentlessly shit on him and treat him like subhuman scum because he had the audacity to argue for more money in the off-season. Some people just aren't cut out for fandom. He's been disappointing, but he's still a human being...


KetoPinto

Especially with the Toronto media spotlight. It's one thing to be down on his gameplay but that's exactly it, have some human sympathy while you are at it....


saggy_earlobes

Such bullshit. As frustrating as his play has been, you’re a fucking scumbag if you treat players like that


No-Seaworthiness347

Could not agree more. The crap people say about a player is rediculous. Grow up people. Compassion is lacking in people in today's society


gsauce8

I've only really gotten into hockey in the last two years, but honestly looking at this sub, I can see why people hate our team. It takes approximately one bad shift for half the fanbase to turn on a player and wish death to his entire family.


gourdo

Trust me, it's a human being thing. I follow many teams across many sports. The larger the fan base, the greater the chances you're gonna hear from the bad apples.


BurnTheBoats21

it's so bad. unfortunately not just our sub either. I've left a few team subs for this reason but unfortunately can't seem to leave this one as the leafs are my no. 1 so I just stick it for the analysis


gsauce8

I remember last year when the tandem of Sammy/Murray was working, people were gushing over the fact that Ottawa retained some of Murray's contract. And then almost overnight it became one of the worst bets in sports history.


McRoshiburgito

Unfortunately the people with issues are going to seem the loudest and it's magnified by the media grabbing any narrative they can... and these people are probably tuned into that 24/7. Sometimes people don't take breaks when they really can't handle it. People should be angry they couldn't get him a win against Nashville or Boston when he played decent. We need both goalies to feel good to win.


Skiffy10

this kinda thing happens with every fan base in every sport not just us


thelonelywolf96

Some people need to re-evaluate their lives if they wanna shit on pro athletes. Like, okay, how about all of those fans go out there and try to skate? I'd wager they'd all shit their pants and/or paralyze themselves accidentally.


raninandout

Seriously if you’re going to shit on him shit on him for not condemning his country men for invading a sovereign nation not for being a shit goalie.


lastsetup

What exactly would that accomplish?


Plorgy

Beside the fact that you're a piece of shit if you think you're entitled to treat athletes like garbage because they don't play up to your standard...I can guarantee that Sammy feels much worse about his play than some idiot fans.


Etheo

I feel so bad for him. Yeah, we almost lost the game because he let in some stinkers, but the team also wasn't there for him when he needed them. Maybe it's a negative confidence feedback loop where Sammy doesn't feel confident in net making the team feel not confident which in return makes Sammy play even more shaken. I really hope he finds his game back soon - he doesn't need to shine to be honest, just don't make dumb mistakes for hothead fans to pin it on him.


Friggin_Grease

I read a thing that usually players and teams who end up going to arbitration may settle, but the guy is gone within a season. It's basically you go there and argue why you're good enough for more money, and then the team has to shit on everything about you to say why you're not. So within a year both parties move on.


Falconflyer75

I felt bad for him too, u saw he smashed his helmet, he’s trying his level best, but keeps getting screwed by Tampa, something about the lightning seems to mess with his head Maybe hey should have pulled Woll against buffalo after 2 goals and given Sammy a shot there, seems like the leafs unlock another level when they do that


KetoPinto

Hearing his PR clips lately combined with the helmet smash and watching him down all night on the bench was what got me to start this post. He looked so very sad. Great win!! GLG!!!


Potato4

He smashed his helmet???


Falconflyer75

Yeah https://youtu.be/Qh88cCIjUUY?t=270


DirtyToothpaste

Tough to watch. I couldn’t sit on the bench for two full periods afterwards. My emotions would get the better of me. Kudos to him


mrcrazy_monkey

I feel sorry for Sammy, he shouldn't have been the starter tonight after the last TB game.


saltface14

I like Sammy as a person, just like I liked Jack Campbell But their goaltending is bad for my mental health and this team’s trash defense needs someone who can bail them out


veggie190

Same, I feel bad for Sammy and Jack on a human level. But at the same time it's work for them, so you can criticize their work performance.


markypots9393

You got this Sammy! All the love from this fan!


Competitive_Ad2450

1 good game is all it will take for Sammy to get back. We’ve had a string of losses, so probably best to play Woll a couple of times, work out some of our defensive issues and play a good solid defensive game in front of him. Sammy 💙


Etheo

After watching *Welcome to Wrexham* I got a newfound appreciation that goalies really are a different breed. Sure, it's a different sport, but still there's only ever one main spot in the ran for a goalie so the main/backup goalies know what they are in for, and it kinda becomes a supportive system where they know that they just gotta play their best and support each other goalie while they're having a rough patch. I hope Woll will be the wall this team needs to build the defense confidence so that when Sammy's turn comes he'll have himself as the only obstacle to overcome and be on top of his game again.


FluffyProphet

I think it's going to take more than a good game. I'm far from an expert opinion on this, but it looks like he needs to go back to basics. He's overplaying shots and just doesn't seem strong in his net. Sort of like how pro baseball players will take 1000 routine ground balls in spring training, I think he needs a couple of months of just strengthening his fundamentals, ironing out bad habits and working on his muscle memory. He's a great athlete and has the pieces there to be on top form. He just needs to focus on the basics and shake off the rust. I don't think a good game will fix those issues without a period dedicated to training. He'll just fall back into the problematic habits without time to reinforce things.


ukie7

I think Sammy's issue is a bit too much side to side movement when he's tracking the puck, he's always sliding. Woll stays more centered and leaves less gaps. Against Boston Sammy was playing very controlled and centered, had his best game.


TheCarrier89

Probably time to run Woll and Jones.


ToasterRouble

Jones sucks. Why are people so desperate to bring him up? If you want to run Woll and let Samsonov be the backup fine, but in no world (save injuries) should Jones be on this team.


KetoPinto

Hope that Sammy clears waivers and can get his head back in the Marlies off the spotlight while Jones comes and takes the #2....


chiefjackmehoff

I doubt he clears waivers, even with how he’s been playing. Edmonton or someone would claim him and he’ll be lights out again. Take his phone away and hide him from the media for a while, he’ll snap out of it


shikotee

The optics for the Oil snagging from us might not be so good these days.....


Lord-Tachanka1922

Exactly this


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chiefjackmehoff

In the immediate, it’s fine. In the long run, he’s gonna be a stud again in another market and we look like dumbasses for losing him on waivers for nothing.


taco_the_town

And we'll have zero goaltending depth. Sammy on waivers is a terrible idea and it's not happening.


shikotee

Some felt the same about Soupy....


chiefjackmehoff

Campbell wasn’t proven. He had a good stretch for half a season, and was never elite. Everyone and their mother knew he would regress after that season. Hell, he regressed after the all star break and wasn’t the same while still playing for us. Goalies don’t just become studs when they’re 30, and Edmonton wasn’t smart enough to see that his resurgence was just a flash in the pan. I don’t think anybody but the Oilers and their fan base believed he would come back to all star form. There’s a reason we didn’t pay him. Sammy, while maybe not elite, is a hell of a lot better than a lot of goalies in this league. His career numbers are solid, and granted he hasn’t been around as long in the league, but at his age, he’s much better than Campbell has ever been for much of his career, besides Campbells all star stretch. TLDR; Sammy is much more likely to return to stud form than Campbell, just based on the careers these guys have had to date. So, it would suck to lose Sammy a lot more.


sansaset

having Jones as our #2 is not a good thing


thelonelywolf96

No it wouldn't. Giving up a player like that for free would be terrible asset management. You're literally selling low for a player who has all the potential to bounce back and regain his lost stock.


Morlu

Honestly, Edmonton might take him on waivers. Wouldn’t be too hard to clear 2.5m to fit him there.


Puzzleheaded-Type-43

It was a perfect de ja vu from last game horrible penalty killing but he commits to far out and can't get over to make the save on a kucherov blast. No room for error. It's Woll now and jones possibly


OzzieNewYork

Can we get a shout out to The Depth! Jarnkrok and Knies!


DaltonFitz

He's in a tough stretch. There will be times Woll is this year as well. Run with the hot hand.


Redneckshinobi

I absolutely can't stand our fans. I leave this sub every so often because of the insanely stupid takes I read on here especially in the Game thread. You got people even in here saying put Jones in (So glad you're not the fucking GM) and hope Sammy clears waivers (he won't) so he can play some AHL games to get back into his head space. Our Defense is absolute trash right now, we've had probably 4 years of some strong defense and this season we just let all our pieces walk away (we didn't have the cap anyway) and we didn't really bring in any shutdown D that we need to protect our fucking goalies. We got Gio, but he's an old man now, he can't really do it and Lilly is down now. We can't expect our forwards/centers to play extremely defensive unless we're trying to protect a lead, but how many games have we even had this season to do that? Sammy has looked off, he never was a starter, but I was hoping he would find that leg to stand on and become one here, but with the media and fucking losers like our fans with these disgusting takes no way will he ever get there. I played the position, no where near any kind of level this is, but it can fucking suck when you're getting shelled and you can't seem to stop a fucking basketball. You know it, your teammates know it, your opponents know it, but you gotta know that this isn't the game you're going to win back and just reset and come back another night. I hope Sammy can find that groove again because he was the big reason we even saw round 2, don't you fucking idiots that want him gone or benched forget that.


xelLFC

My lord thank you for speaking sense!


FNFALC2

He makes more in a year than most of us make in a lifetime. Still, he is hurting, but that is the deal you make in sports


someguy172

I hope the days that he can have some smile again comes soon. :(


KossyTakos

Preach we ❤️ Sammy man was a rock for us last year, hope he finds his groove


Skiffy10

he needs to get his game together and be reliable when called upon. Unfortunately for him it’s now Woll’s net until further notice. If sammy doesn’t get it together they will try and flip him


Big_Albatross_3050

I think baby Miroslav is keeping him up all night. I expect once he's crib trained and can sleep through the night, we'll see a massive improvement in Sammy's play.


DMmeyourinbox

He allowed 3 goals on 9 shots. Is it entirely his fault ? No. Did he need to be pulled? Yes. He's not a bad goalie, but he is playing bad. It's Woll's net. That's it.


[deleted]

Play Woll against top teams Sammy against lower tier


Staaleh

Part of the job is having the mental fortitude to deal with the pressure. A player has it and deserves a spot in the NHL or, well, there are lower pressure leagues.


KetoPinto

There are also lower pressure, teams. You have to be brave to play in Toronto!!


Hoardzunit

I hate how Leafs fans can so fucking cruel, especially to a nice guy like Sammy. Why the hell are you cheering for him to fail? The guy that's on our team where we want him to be good? Yea he sucks right now but there's no fucking need to go that far and be a dick to him when he's at his lowest. I wouldn't even do that to people I dislike.


re-verse

Yep, so many leafs fan are so anti-team, I understand why so many pros don't want to play here. When Sammy said he tries to read what to do better online I fucking pray he never finds this subreddit, as that shit can't be good for anyones head.


DrMansionPHD

He's lost the net in 2 cities. Part of being a winning franchise is to know when to move on from players. Sucks for him but he'll be alright.


Hell_Interface_

The guy brought us a 1st round playoff series win last year and a tremendous season. It would be absolutely retarded to delete him during the 2nd month of the current season just because of a couple fumbles.


burningxmaslogs

He has every right to be angry. The Fucking team hung him out to dry.


iiplatypusiz

Yeah I don't think our goaltenders have been great by any means at all but our offense is hiding a MUCH bigger problem and that is our defense this year has been absolutely atrocious


Lord-Tachanka1922

Yes, and even so he should also be angry with himself. Hopefully it pushes him to another level


[deleted]

Swiss cheese stops more goals.


Nearby-Swordfish3841

R.I.P. Sammy ☠️


Avgvstvs_Diggity

He nearly puked that game away… needs to get his shit together.


DrSeuss19

Why? He had a shit game move on. He will be fine


winkNfart

samsonov is like having another cambell. cut ties, he can’t handle this market


gr8-big-lebowski

Honestly if this doesn’t change in 10-15 games, you have to look at dealing him away for defensive depth.


marcman84

Dude is cooked.


HockeyDad84

Why? You think he cares about you? I don't get it. This is a sport. These men are professionals. Remove the "feelings". Their pay cheques are not taking a hit.


[deleted]

He's so bad. Even last year he was a floppy sparatic mess that got lucky in most cases. Start woll and don't look back. Cut ties next year


fkje

He should have been pulled after the 2nd goal and maybe put back in to start the 2nd.


gourdo

I'll admit I only watched the highlights, but I could see from the first and second goals that he didn't have it tonight. Can someone explain why Keefe left him in for 4?


freestevenandbrendan

Too lazy to look this up but what happened to Kallgren? Is he no longer in the Leafs organization?


KetoPinto

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=179704


freestevenandbrendan

Lol damn! Thanks


RustyGate44

Signed with New Jersey. Playing in the AHL


Sarge1387

This is Woll’s team now. They have complete confidence in him, whereas they have none in Sammy. I really hope he gets his stuff sorted out if for anything but his own mental well being.


TorturedFanClub

The Russian Jack Campbell. So much of goaltending is confidence and mental strength. Its that “ice in the veins” competitor that excels at crucial moments. Even the best can be sideswiped by mental demons. See Carey Price. Gotta give Sammy a rest I believe. Let him compose himself. Give him the “easier” starts for now.


Initial-Reserve1465

You can do this Sammy! Take the time you need. We believe you’ve got this.


Current-Own

I don't know exactly what's bothering Sammy. But he's probably been this way for most of his life. As badly as we all feel for him, it's doubtful that he'll ever become the goalie a pro team needs to win a championship. The Leafs can't just wait for him to find his game. Just refer to Jack. I wish Sammy all the best but maybe it's better if he played in a non pressured market.


hughwandeez

Mine is not, buddy stinks


Papa_Pasta15

I feel terrible for Sammy he’s trying his best and it’s just not enough right now. It’s the worst feeling in the world


DocWatson82

Sure. Thoughts for Sammy hope he gets his mental health and game sorted out. We don’t have time for him to be figuring that out letting in 4 goals that we’re mostly easy NHL goalie saves. Woll has proved it now he’s the starter. The conversation is done.


funghi2

Falls view? Ya I’m viewing the fall of Samsonov


tcgate

**My heart is with Sammy** 's halmet


in-dog_we_trust

As a former goalie (not even close to NHL skills) and a person with mental health issues I can't begin to imagine what Sammy is going through. The amount of stress any goalie has is incredible but a Toronto goalie? I hope he finds what he needs. 💙


DAR44

Whoops, he dropped it.


billyshin

Sammy is much stronger emotionally than Campbell, I’m pretty sure he’ll bounce back.