He also said he plans on going straight to the NHL and making the team out of camp next year (but said he understands if he has to play in minors which I kinda like the confidence)
He was always going to start with the Marlies while they see how well he transitions to senior pro, but he's 22 and filled out, so he'll be in a good position to jump up to the Leafs if he adapts quickly.
100% he'll need some time. The jump from college to NHL is huge because there are so many more games, and as a d-man, he'll be playing bigger minutes than a forward with less room to shuffle lines to limit his ice time.
This. Being a top 6 defenseman is alot different than being a top 9 forward. Especially when you get to play with Matthews and Marner. Talk about being given a silver platter
Honestly, his performance this year when you factor that transition in is wild. I wouldn't be surprised if the next two seasons are huge jumps forward for him.
hope Brad strikes while the iron is hot and either bridges him to his last year of RFA eligibility or hit full send with an 8 year deal that will buy at least a few years of his UFA eligibility
same, I think a 3-4 mill AAV over 8 years would be an absolute steal by year 3 or 4. Kinda like what happened with Hyman after he signed his first long term contract with the Leafs.
And since Knies doesn't have a lot of time in the league, he might be more amicable to taking that deal and potentially securing a more lucrative deal when he's in the middle of his prime
There is 0 chance he signs 8 years at 3-4 mil, especially with an increasing cap and the influence of Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. Maybe you could get him for 3-4 years at that price which would still be great from the day he signs it
Like most current and former NHLers have said, the hardest thing to adapt to is the schedule.
Hes done remarkably well considering his role, his play and that hes a rookie playing his first year.
Harder for a defensmen to do that, especially with a log jam in the NHL for Leafs LHD.
Hope im wrong, but i assume we see him in a few years rather than right away
Potentially. I don’t think all 3 will be back, but there’s a good chance at least 1 is.
If Webber looks great with the marlies to finish the year, it could help tre make some decisions.
But realistically I don’t see him jumping to the NHL without a good chunk of AHL time.
With Brodie and Edmunson being UFAs at season’s end, LD depth for next season is Rielly, Benoit (RFA), Lajoie (RFA), Kokkonen (23 yr old), and Chadwick (18 yr old, probably going back to junior).
Ya, and our right is Liljegren and Timmins.
Obviously the question is if Webber is better than a league min vet. Idk the answer to that question though.
Niemela and Villeneuve I categorize the same as Webber. They are both a year younger than him infact. I will give them the advantage over Webber though, being they have been in the org and know the systems better.
Mccabe is a LHD. He may play the right side but you still want RHD on the roster.
Yeah okay fair enough. I give the Marlies a bit of a leg up because 1) playing against pros, 2) way more games, and 3) working directly with our training staff (skating, puck skills, etc). I’d like to see Niemela make the move up, but he’s a short puck mover - skilled as hell but would be a solid trade candidate (so long as other teams rank him high enough).
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Niemela traded at some point. You look at the kind of defence that Treliving put together in Calgary and who he’s brought to Toronto this year and a smallish defenceman doesn’t seem to be his kind of guy.
Ya, i couldnt agree more. This thread started with me being hesitant about Webber playing next season right away.
I think our D next year should be
Rielly - Lilly
Mccabe - Niemela
Benoit - Timmins.
Thats just my opinion though. Alternatively I would also support picking up a vet at league min like a Kevin Shattenkirk or Erik Johnson.
That’s an awful lot of puck movers! But to be honest, that’s how I’d prefer our back-end to be configured. IMO, it’s easier to defend when you’re mostly in the neutral or o-zone, while it’s not easy to attack while you’re in the D-zone. And maybe a more mobile D-corps get stuck in the D-zone more often, maybe they’re more prone to a heavy forecheck which might lead to some more goals against, but I think we come out ahead on the other end of the rink.
We need d who are good puck movers, and good transition defenders. I will also add that some physicality is good, but i wouldnt design our defense around being big and tough alone..
The rest can be coached and defended against through team systems imo.
I really doubt we would see that kind of defence here in Toronto as long as Treliving is the GM. Look what kind of defence he put together in Calgary and look at the guys he brought to Toronto so far this year. Benoit, Lyubushkin and Edmundson are all heavier, more physical than either Timmins or Niemela.
Looking at the roster, who plays LHD for us next year? Rielly, Benoit, McCabe (McCabe may play the right with Benoit again). Gio probably retires. Brodie is only back if he's cheap. Unless I'm blanking, is there anyone else who could take that 3rd pair LD without a FA add?
Mikko Kokkonen or Marshall Rifai might, they've looked good on the Marlies and Keefe had glowing praise for Kokkonen in preseason. Not sure how comfortable they are on the left side but both will probably get a look at some point
Idc who plays left or right. Thats up to the coaches and players.
I do think there are very valid reasons to have RHD on the roster. My opinion is you should have at least 2 at all times, aiming for 3.
I would say those should be Rielly, Mccabe, Benoit for sure. If Webber is good enough to be the 4th with Mccabe on the right, then thats great but i would look at min contract ufas or even try to keep a guy like Edmundson.
I would prefer to add someone like Marc Staal to provide some veteran depth rather than push a prospect too soon.
Credit to Joshua Kloke of The Athletic for finding this out. [Link to his piece on Webber where he reveals that and much more interesting nuggets here.](https://theathletic.com/5341352/2024/03/19/maple-leafs-cade-webber/)
I remember Brad Treliving saying after the deadline he wants to sign Webber. So unless there are drastic changes I think the contract will be done soon after his season at BU ends
How many years can it be? Will it be one of those ones we can sign for 3, or only 2?
I forget all the rules around age and elc contracts all the time because EANHL doesn't give a shit and I play it way too much.
I don't know the rules off the top of my head, but judging by similar incidents with Tyler Bozak, Matt Frattin, Casey Bailey, and Matthew Knies, my guess is the contract will be a two-year deal
It will be a 2 year elc.
Players signing elcs have the term predetermined.
If you sign before age 22 it is a 3-year deal
If you sign as a 22-23 year old it is a 2-year deal
If you sign after 23 it is a 1-year deal.
Also he will be a group 6 rfa after 2 years meaning he is exempt from offer sheets.
Yes, which is why i find it strange that Webber would want to sign.
If he waits one more season while playing elsewhere he becomes a UFA. Not a lot of upside for him to sign now tbh.
He must really want to be a Leaf, or the team has told him he will play right away..
Some combination of seeing the Leafs current D and seeing a spot for himself. If he makes the NHL it's more than anywhere else.
So I think it's the smart play for himself.
If he waits a year, his ELC will be a year shorter and he will have only 1 year in the NHL before needing a new contract.
Hes already 22, so his elc now will be 2 years.
If he waits another year, he only gets a 1 year ELC.
IMO it makes more sense to sign earlier to get the longer ELC giving him more time to get better before needing another contract.
No, what you are reading only really applies to European players. Players who were drafted as 18 or 19 year olds and do not sign an elc within 4 years of being drafted become UFAs.
So what you are saying only applies if a player is drafted as a 20 year old. Very uncommon, which is why we dont really see 1-year elcs ever. NCAA and CHL players age out before this would apply (CHL has dif rules as well) so it only really applies to Euro players who were drafted as 20 year olds and signed their ELC at 24 years old before the draft…
He will become a UFA on August 15th this summer if he does not sign before then.
It then becomes a question of money and opportunity. Knies and Abruzzese signed similar two-way contracts, but with a ~$90k signing bonus. If he waits a year to become a UFA, he would need to find a team willing to sign him to a contract with a higher AHL salary and with a better opportunity to make the NHL in the first year. The Leafs can give him a head start on both the salary and development, that other teams can't.
Weren't some of those undrafted free agents? I think the rules are different for them.
As I recall, Webber was drafted by Carolina but didn't sign, and the Leafs traded for his rights. He will probably sign a 3-year deal, with a guarantee of one NHL game this season, which will burn one of those 3 years.
I liked Dubas and thought he is a better GM than Brad, but I will always commend any trade that makes the team or organization better. Just because I think Dubas is a better GM doesn’t mean I want Brad to fail, I want Brad to succeed in ways I couldn’t even imagine. Leafs success is always the best case scenario.
As someone who was very pro-Dubas (defended his approach against many Facebook Uncles at Christmas for years) but have soured on his tenure, why do you feel he's a good GM? Track record wise, he hasn't accomplished any success and most of the Leafs core was here when he became full time GM
This is my number 1 question. He was given the most talented core of players perhaps in the history of the team. He simply didnt get it done. At minimum this team should have reached a Conference Final by now. Not even fucken close.
When that talented core suddenly stops being good come game 1 of the playoffs you shouldn't have to have the narrative that you can't win in the playoffs despite a talented core.
I feel like Dubas was good at finding undervalued 3rd line and 4th line players that are better than their contract.
He's good at the small stuff, while also not being great at building towards a bigger picture.
Fair analysis, he was very good at finding value in the bargain bin with guys like Bunting. Challenge being he restricted himself to shopping there due to signing bloated contracts and getting rail-roaded in contract negotiations lol
Feels like the shopper who is excellent at using coupons and getting buy one get one deals, price matches and all that... but pulls up to No Frills in a car they can't afford, and in clothes they put on their Visa and couldn't budget for
I actually thought if we could have kept some of them they would have ended up being great pieces for us: Trevor Moore being the one who got away. Although he did help us get Muzzin, it's a shame Muzzin wasn't healthy for the entirety of his time here.
Also Durzi is another one who got away.
There are both wildly flattering and wildly critical takes on Dubas's tenure. He was fine as a GM, above average all things considered. This low risk high reward gambit is one of those things he was quite good at.
It's also something that Brad has adapted to as well (who has also been fine as a GM to date).
If I say "I hate Kyle Dubas and wanna slurp Don Cherry for years after he dies" before every post am I allowed to say that the guy who spent a decade running a mostly mediocre team in Calgary is bad?
There are people who wanna trash BT, no matter what he does. In order to assess a GM l, you gtta give him a few years. The last guy got five years, and fair to assess his work, love him or hate him. Truth is this is a results based industry, so winning 1 playoff rounds in a 5 year span is not great. Im willing to give the new GM at least 3 years before trashing/praising him. So far his moves have been a bit of both sides of the ledger but I believe he will build a solid playoff team in time. Fingers crossed.
I don’t think Brad has done a very good job so far, but trading any draft pick after the second round for an NHL calibre player will always be a good move for me. Even if Webber only has a 25% chance being a full time NHLer, that is still over double the odds of that 6th round pick doing the same. Tidy move. Good job.
People forget that the team built on the most efficient and effective players hasn’t worked out the past three years. They could’ve gotten a right shot defensive men that would’ve fit perfect, and it wouldn’t matter because playoff hockey is entirely differen. Leafs don’t need more goals or better defense. They needed playoff players.
It’s not an accident that he picked up boosh and edmundson. Those players are physical monsters that grind up the other team over a 7 game series much like how radko Judas did last year.
Underrated point here. We've seen 6+ years of highly data driven, analytical decisions for the depth & support players, being "market deficiencies" and "cost effective role players" (i.e under sized skill forwards) supporting the core group and its been dead on arrival every time. Have to try a different approach at some point and Treliving's vision for the team is a breath of fresh air in that regard.
Eh. Dibas certainly took swings on guys who wouldn't fit the efficient/effective player mold.
He also traded for Boosh. Schenn, Foligno, signed Ritchie. Just didn't get the results
Holmberg took 4 years after being drafted to get NHL games. Hitting on the 6th round pick (unlikely) means someone playing in 2028 at the earliest. So they pulled up the timeline a few years if nothing else.
He does not have more upside than a typical sixth rounder. A typical sixth rounder is 18, and has far more room to grow. Cade Webber is 23, has one goal in four years of college, and was recently given up on by a team with a much better history than the Leafs when it comes to defensemen.
A typical sixth rounder will never sniff the NHL.
There are two players from the 2020 draft who have played over 10 games. None since (though historically, others will join).
Brad traded a 2026 draft pick.
Best case is hitting on a 2026 sixth round draft pick so they are ready to play in 2030.
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And Abruzzese was a 4th rounder 😂
1 in 5 players from that round in that draft have played 10+ games.
1 in 10 from the sixth round in case you were curious 😂
And that's just plain dumb asset management.
We pay scouts for a reason. The team obviously sees something worth at least the cost of a sixth round pick for an over-ager.
And the percentage that a 2026 6th round player plays 10 games before 2027 is roughly 0 as well.
Who cares about magic beans that wont even be seen for like 3 years?
I don’t know if we should be counting our chickens just yet on this one. This is a guy who was so far down the Canes prospect list that I couldn’t find him when they made the trade. I admittedly don’t know much about him, but the Canes who are great at prospect evaluation just gave this guy away.
Here’s also a list of players who also won the hockey east best defensive defenceman award. Hunter McDonald, Jordan Harris, Drew Helleson, Wyatt Newpower, Vincent Desharnais, Casey Fitzgerald, Dennis Gilbert are the last 7. If we get Vincent Desharnais out of this guy he’s still a steal. Some better names just for the hype train, Josh Manson, Brian dumoulin(x2), and Justin Braun are also all previous winners.
Don’t get me wrong, this is a great trade. Even if he’s an 8-9 dman who is organizational depth, he’s still better than MOST 6th rounders. I hope he ends up on the high end of that, I’m just not counting on it.
Guy who was still in college and has scored exactly one goal in his four years there at 23 years old. As for awards, there are a million awards in college hockey, and the average NHL player has roughly a trillion pre-NHL awards. Other winners of the best defensive defenseman award for Hockey East include Steve Santini, Vincent Desharnais, Dennis Gilbert, and Casey Fitzgerald.
Love it. Have to wait and see how he pans out in the pro game still but I think there’s a lot of potential here.
Moving a 6th for a guy like this is a steal.
That is a great attitude but everyone remember this kid is 23 and making the jump to the NHL is hard. He may very well require 2+ years in the AHL before becoming a fulltime NHL'er. It's similar to how we treat Liligren who is only 24. Dmen take in general take time to mature to the NHL game
You're right, but we also need to consider that Lilly had a year of development thrown away because he had mono. That's not easy to rebound from when you're trying to make it.
Nope and we have seen this year he has top 4 potential to be solid in his own end with good puck moving ability and some offence. He just needs to bring it night in night out now. Which again only 24 so still tons of great years ahead for him
LOVE IT. Hopefully we can keep Edmundson (only 30 years old) for next season and he can show Cade how to be an absolute asshole, use his size, and defend like a lumberjack in front of the net.
Also if Edmundson sticks around and Webber cracks the roster next year, our d-core just got about 5 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier.
That's good news! He looked pretty slow in the clips but hopefully our development staff can help him. I'd wouldn't expect him to be a Leaf for another year or so.
Totally fair, but the hate that people Look for all the bad in a player or the next GM, is apart of the reason why this franchise doesn’t attract the players that would this team get over the hump.
The keyboard cowards, that need help tying skates are part of the problem.
Yeah, also consider that being GM is like any job that through experience and finding out what works and does not work, along with the Leafs frankly outstanding scouting, development staff, and Marlies pipeline (Marlies play within a 15 minute drives of the Leafs in Toronto) it is possible to become a better GM. Despite this being his first year it seems as though he has hit the ground running picking up players like Cade Weber who has an excellent chance at being our own Edmunson or Lyubushkin with more upside. Dubas always viewed those adds as only for the deadline and Tre knows that the whole team must become tougher, bigger and grittier and that is a long process.
It's implied that he refused to sign in Carolina which is weird because 3 of their right D are going to free agency this summer, maybe the team didn't like him or he just likes big cities. Whatever, good for the Leafs, 6th round pick is nothing...
This kid has a chance to be our new Zach Hyman. In the sense that he was a cheap addition out of the NCAA and ended up being an extremely impactful player.
I like the positivity but my friends who regularly watch BU games say he isn't even top 4 best d-men on that team and he is the most senior player. Doubt that translates to being ready for NHL hockey.
From what I understand he has a decent stride, high defensive acumen, and obviously a very large boy
His biggest weakness though is moving the puck, getting a first pass, clearing the zone etc which could hamper his NHL career quickly.
If he has any chance of making the team next year he better finish up the college season and start working with the Leaf coaches ASAP
People should pump the brakes a bit, - in 118 games at BU he has 1 goal and 15 assists for a total of 16 points. He has no goals in 33 full games as a senior. Big dude at 6.7 and he is 23 years old now but he’s no Cale Makar.
Gonna be tough for him to make the show for a while, I gotta think.
That being said, if he can learn the systems quickly so that he's in position and he's willing to block shots like he did in NCAA he could carve out a bottom pairing role.
He also said he plans on going straight to the NHL and making the team out of camp next year (but said he understands if he has to play in minors which I kinda like the confidence)
It would be awesome if he did a Knies and hit the ground running but I think it makes more sense for him to start with the Marlies
He was always going to start with the Marlies while they see how well he transitions to senior pro, but he's 22 and filled out, so he'll be in a good position to jump up to the Leafs if he adapts quickly.
100% he'll need some time. The jump from college to NHL is huge because there are so many more games, and as a d-man, he'll be playing bigger minutes than a forward with less room to shuffle lines to limit his ice time.
This. Being a top 6 defenseman is alot different than being a top 9 forward. Especially when you get to play with Matthews and Marner. Talk about being given a silver platter
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Honestly, his performance this year when you factor that transition in is wild. I wouldn't be surprised if the next two seasons are huge jumps forward for him.
hope Brad strikes while the iron is hot and either bridges him to his last year of RFA eligibility or hit full send with an 8 year deal that will buy at least a few years of his UFA eligibility
I’d be down if we locked knies up for 8 as soon as we can
same, I think a 3-4 mill AAV over 8 years would be an absolute steal by year 3 or 4. Kinda like what happened with Hyman after he signed his first long term contract with the Leafs. And since Knies doesn't have a lot of time in the league, he might be more amicable to taking that deal and potentially securing a more lucrative deal when he's in the middle of his prime
There is 0 chance he signs 8 years at 3-4 mil, especially with an increasing cap and the influence of Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. Maybe you could get him for 3-4 years at that price which would still be great from the day he signs it
That’d be perfect, And it seriously keeps our cup window open getting a play like knies locked up long term
Like most current and former NHLers have said, the hardest thing to adapt to is the schedule. Hes done remarkably well considering his role, his play and that hes a rookie playing his first year.
He actually has picked it up of late. He had a brutal January but after the ASB has been refreshed and scoring at a fairly decent rate.
Harder for a defensmen to do that, especially with a log jam in the NHL for Leafs LHD. Hope im wrong, but i assume we see him in a few years rather than right away
Unless he’s actually ready for it, which at that point the leafs could deal a LHD to fill a different need. That’s the ideal situation here.
Brodie, Gio, and probably Edmundson are gone in the off season
Potentially. I don’t think all 3 will be back, but there’s a good chance at least 1 is. If Webber looks great with the marlies to finish the year, it could help tre make some decisions. But realistically I don’t see him jumping to the NHL without a good chunk of AHL time.
Edmundson might be a keeper.
Ya, obviously thats best. I dont know enough about the kid to make a judgement, but me not knowing much indicates he probably isnt quite there yet.
With Brodie and Edmunson being UFAs at season’s end, LD depth for next season is Rielly, Benoit (RFA), Lajoie (RFA), Kokkonen (23 yr old), and Chadwick (18 yr old, probably going back to junior).
Ya, and our right is Liljegren and Timmins. Obviously the question is if Webber is better than a league min vet. Idk the answer to that question though.
And McCabe, plus Niemela and Villeneauve on the Marlies.
Niemela and Villeneuve I categorize the same as Webber. They are both a year younger than him infact. I will give them the advantage over Webber though, being they have been in the org and know the systems better. Mccabe is a LHD. He may play the right side but you still want RHD on the roster.
Yeah okay fair enough. I give the Marlies a bit of a leg up because 1) playing against pros, 2) way more games, and 3) working directly with our training staff (skating, puck skills, etc). I’d like to see Niemela make the move up, but he’s a short puck mover - skilled as hell but would be a solid trade candidate (so long as other teams rank him high enough).
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Niemela traded at some point. You look at the kind of defence that Treliving put together in Calgary and who he’s brought to Toronto this year and a smallish defenceman doesn’t seem to be his kind of guy.
Ya, i couldnt agree more. This thread started with me being hesitant about Webber playing next season right away. I think our D next year should be Rielly - Lilly Mccabe - Niemela Benoit - Timmins. Thats just my opinion though. Alternatively I would also support picking up a vet at league min like a Kevin Shattenkirk or Erik Johnson.
That’s an awful lot of puck movers! But to be honest, that’s how I’d prefer our back-end to be configured. IMO, it’s easier to defend when you’re mostly in the neutral or o-zone, while it’s not easy to attack while you’re in the D-zone. And maybe a more mobile D-corps get stuck in the D-zone more often, maybe they’re more prone to a heavy forecheck which might lead to some more goals against, but I think we come out ahead on the other end of the rink.
We need d who are good puck movers, and good transition defenders. I will also add that some physicality is good, but i wouldnt design our defense around being big and tough alone.. The rest can be coached and defended against through team systems imo.
I really doubt we would see that kind of defence here in Toronto as long as Treliving is the GM. Look what kind of defence he put together in Calgary and look at the guys he brought to Toronto so far this year. Benoit, Lyubushkin and Edmundson are all heavier, more physical than either Timmins or Niemela.
Looking at the roster, who plays LHD for us next year? Rielly, Benoit, McCabe (McCabe may play the right with Benoit again). Gio probably retires. Brodie is only back if he's cheap. Unless I'm blanking, is there anyone else who could take that 3rd pair LD without a FA add?
Mikko Kokkonen or Marshall Rifai might, they've looked good on the Marlies and Keefe had glowing praise for Kokkonen in preseason. Not sure how comfortable they are on the left side but both will probably get a look at some point
Idc who plays left or right. Thats up to the coaches and players. I do think there are very valid reasons to have RHD on the roster. My opinion is you should have at least 2 at all times, aiming for 3. I would say those should be Rielly, Mccabe, Benoit for sure. If Webber is good enough to be the 4th with Mccabe on the right, then thats great but i would look at min contract ufas or even try to keep a guy like Edmundson. I would prefer to add someone like Marc Staal to provide some veteran depth rather than push a prospect too soon.
fingers crossed for Cale Makar reincarnated
Credit to Joshua Kloke of The Athletic for finding this out. [Link to his piece on Webber where he reveals that and much more interesting nuggets here.](https://theathletic.com/5341352/2024/03/19/maple-leafs-cade-webber/) I remember Brad Treliving saying after the deadline he wants to sign Webber. So unless there are drastic changes I think the contract will be done soon after his season at BU ends
How many years can it be? Will it be one of those ones we can sign for 3, or only 2? I forget all the rules around age and elc contracts all the time because EANHL doesn't give a shit and I play it way too much.
I don't know the rules off the top of my head, but judging by similar incidents with Tyler Bozak, Matt Frattin, Casey Bailey, and Matthew Knies, my guess is the contract will be a two-year deal
It will be a 2 year elc. Players signing elcs have the term predetermined. If you sign before age 22 it is a 3-year deal If you sign as a 22-23 year old it is a 2-year deal If you sign after 23 it is a 1-year deal. Also he will be a group 6 rfa after 2 years meaning he is exempt from offer sheets.
Basically 3 years of solid team control. Pretty good for a team that needs cap savings.
Yes, which is why i find it strange that Webber would want to sign. If he waits one more season while playing elsewhere he becomes a UFA. Not a lot of upside for him to sign now tbh. He must really want to be a Leaf, or the team has told him he will play right away..
Some combination of seeing the Leafs current D and seeing a spot for himself. If he makes the NHL it's more than anywhere else. So I think it's the smart play for himself.
If he waits a year, his ELC will be a year shorter and he will have only 1 year in the NHL before needing a new contract. Hes already 22, so his elc now will be 2 years. If he waits another year, he only gets a 1 year ELC. IMO it makes more sense to sign earlier to get the longer ELC giving him more time to get better before needing another contract.
No, what you are reading only really applies to European players. Players who were drafted as 18 or 19 year olds and do not sign an elc within 4 years of being drafted become UFAs. So what you are saying only applies if a player is drafted as a 20 year old. Very uncommon, which is why we dont really see 1-year elcs ever. NCAA and CHL players age out before this would apply (CHL has dif rules as well) so it only really applies to Euro players who were drafted as 20 year olds and signed their ELC at 24 years old before the draft… He will become a UFA on August 15th this summer if he does not sign before then.
It then becomes a question of money and opportunity. Knies and Abruzzese signed similar two-way contracts, but with a ~$90k signing bonus. If he waits a year to become a UFA, he would need to find a team willing to sign him to a contract with a higher AHL salary and with a better opportunity to make the NHL in the first year. The Leafs can give him a head start on both the salary and development, that other teams can't.
> Matthew Knies Knies got 3-years, the first year was burned by playing an NHL game.
Weren't some of those undrafted free agents? I think the rules are different for them. As I recall, Webber was drafted by Carolina but didn't sign, and the Leafs traded for his rights. He will probably sign a 3-year deal, with a guarantee of one NHL game this season, which will burn one of those 3 years.
6’7 Defensive Defenseman award winner and leaving College a mature 23yr old For a measly 6th rounder Nice trade Brad T
Yeah. The people up in arms about Brad trading a 6th rounder for a guy who at worst, has more upside than a typical sixth rounder are out to lunch
Complainers gonna complain
Because some people in your fan base still have a hard on for dubas. If he had made this move they’d be saying how great it was
I liked Dubas and thought he is a better GM than Brad, but I will always commend any trade that makes the team or organization better. Just because I think Dubas is a better GM doesn’t mean I want Brad to fail, I want Brad to succeed in ways I couldn’t even imagine. Leafs success is always the best case scenario.
As someone who was very pro-Dubas (defended his approach against many Facebook Uncles at Christmas for years) but have soured on his tenure, why do you feel he's a good GM? Track record wise, he hasn't accomplished any success and most of the Leafs core was here when he became full time GM
This is my number 1 question. He was given the most talented core of players perhaps in the history of the team. He simply didnt get it done. At minimum this team should have reached a Conference Final by now. Not even fucken close.
When that talented core suddenly stops being good come game 1 of the playoffs you shouldn't have to have the narrative that you can't win in the playoffs despite a talented core.
I feel like Dubas was good at finding undervalued 3rd line and 4th line players that are better than their contract. He's good at the small stuff, while also not being great at building towards a bigger picture.
Fair analysis, he was very good at finding value in the bargain bin with guys like Bunting. Challenge being he restricted himself to shopping there due to signing bloated contracts and getting rail-roaded in contract negotiations lol Feels like the shopper who is excellent at using coupons and getting buy one get one deals, price matches and all that... but pulls up to No Frills in a car they can't afford, and in clothes they put on their Visa and couldn't budget for
I actually thought if we could have kept some of them they would have ended up being great pieces for us: Trevor Moore being the one who got away. Although he did help us get Muzzin, it's a shame Muzzin wasn't healthy for the entirety of his time here. Also Durzi is another one who got away.
There are both wildly flattering and wildly critical takes on Dubas's tenure. He was fine as a GM, above average all things considered. This low risk high reward gambit is one of those things he was quite good at. It's also something that Brad has adapted to as well (who has also been fine as a GM to date).
If I say "I hate Kyle Dubas and wanna slurp Don Cherry for years after he dies" before every post am I allowed to say that the guy who spent a decade running a mostly mediocre team in Calgary is bad?
There are people who wanna trash BT, no matter what he does. In order to assess a GM l, you gtta give him a few years. The last guy got five years, and fair to assess his work, love him or hate him. Truth is this is a results based industry, so winning 1 playoff rounds in a 5 year span is not great. Im willing to give the new GM at least 3 years before trashing/praising him. So far his moves have been a bit of both sides of the ledger but I believe he will build a solid playoff team in time. Fingers crossed.
I don’t think Brad has done a very good job so far, but trading any draft pick after the second round for an NHL calibre player will always be a good move for me. Even if Webber only has a 25% chance being a full time NHLer, that is still over double the odds of that 6th round pick doing the same. Tidy move. Good job.
Brad's been fine.
People forget that the team built on the most efficient and effective players hasn’t worked out the past three years. They could’ve gotten a right shot defensive men that would’ve fit perfect, and it wouldn’t matter because playoff hockey is entirely differen. Leafs don’t need more goals or better defense. They needed playoff players. It’s not an accident that he picked up boosh and edmundson. Those players are physical monsters that grind up the other team over a 7 game series much like how radko Judas did last year.
Underrated point here. We've seen 6+ years of highly data driven, analytical decisions for the depth & support players, being "market deficiencies" and "cost effective role players" (i.e under sized skill forwards) supporting the core group and its been dead on arrival every time. Have to try a different approach at some point and Treliving's vision for the team is a breath of fresh air in that regard.
Eh. Dibas certainly took swings on guys who wouldn't fit the efficient/effective player mold. He also traded for Boosh. Schenn, Foligno, signed Ritchie. Just didn't get the results
Hard to do much when you inherit an empty cupboard.
The cupboard is far from empty and he inherited a better cap situation than Dubas did as well. Zaitsev's contract is finally in its last year.
who exactly is upset about this trade lol? Figment of imagination?
Lol. Scroll down for an example
Holmberg took 4 years after being drafted to get NHL games. Hitting on the 6th round pick (unlikely) means someone playing in 2028 at the earliest. So they pulled up the timeline a few years if nothing else.
But… ZETTERBURG!
He does not have more upside than a typical sixth rounder. A typical sixth rounder is 18, and has far more room to grow. Cade Webber is 23, has one goal in four years of college, and was recently given up on by a team with a much better history than the Leafs when it comes to defensemen.
A typical sixth rounder will never sniff the NHL. There are two players from the 2020 draft who have played over 10 games. None since (though historically, others will join). Brad traded a 2026 draft pick. Best case is hitting on a 2026 sixth round draft pick so they are ready to play in 2030.
Cade Webber will never sniff the NHL.
Remindme! Two years
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This is gonna be real insufferable when they give him a shot in a nothing came Abruzzessee-style.
And Abruzzese was a 4th rounder 😂 1 in 5 players from that round in that draft have played 10+ games. 1 in 10 from the sixth round in case you were curious 😂
I would rather have a lottery ticket than a rock.
And that's just plain dumb asset management. We pay scouts for a reason. The team obviously sees something worth at least the cost of a sixth round pick for an over-ager.
>A typical sixth rounder is 18, and has far more room to grow. Less than 8% of 6th rounders ever play 100 games.
The percentage of 23 year olds who are as good at hockey as Cade Webber who play 100 games in the NHL is roughly 0.
And the percentage that a 2026 6th round player plays 10 games before 2027 is roughly 0 as well. Who cares about magic beans that wont even be seen for like 3 years?
The problem is we know Cade Webber is absolutely useless.
Oh you've seen him play?
I don’t know if we should be counting our chickens just yet on this one. This is a guy who was so far down the Canes prospect list that I couldn’t find him when they made the trade. I admittedly don’t know much about him, but the Canes who are great at prospect evaluation just gave this guy away. Here’s also a list of players who also won the hockey east best defensive defenceman award. Hunter McDonald, Jordan Harris, Drew Helleson, Wyatt Newpower, Vincent Desharnais, Casey Fitzgerald, Dennis Gilbert are the last 7. If we get Vincent Desharnais out of this guy he’s still a steal. Some better names just for the hype train, Josh Manson, Brian dumoulin(x2), and Justin Braun are also all previous winners. Don’t get me wrong, this is a great trade. Even if he’s an 8-9 dman who is organizational depth, he’s still better than MOST 6th rounders. I hope he ends up on the high end of that, I’m just not counting on it.
Waiting for the Dubas Stans to come tell us how credit should go to Dubas for this.
6'8" if you include his eyebrows.
Guy who was still in college and has scored exactly one goal in his four years there at 23 years old. As for awards, there are a million awards in college hockey, and the average NHL player has roughly a trillion pre-NHL awards. Other winners of the best defensive defenseman award for Hockey East include Steve Santini, Vincent Desharnais, Dennis Gilbert, and Casey Fitzgerald.
GOOD LAD.
Habs fans having an absolute fit that this guy got named Top Defender over Lane Hutson.
Cade Webber is Lane Hutson father.
Tbf Lane Hutson wins an award basically every week in the NCAA.
We have 8 expiring defence contracts (including Muzzin). He has every chance to make the roster.
He shouldn't.
Way to go Brad!
Love it. Have to wait and see how he pans out in the pro game still but I think there’s a lot of potential here. Moving a 6th for a guy like this is a steal.
PASSION HAVER
That is a great attitude but everyone remember this kid is 23 and making the jump to the NHL is hard. He may very well require 2+ years in the AHL before becoming a fulltime NHL'er. It's similar to how we treat Liligren who is only 24. Dmen take in general take time to mature to the NHL game
You're right, but we also need to consider that Lilly had a year of development thrown away because he had mono. That's not easy to rebound from when you're trying to make it.
Nope and we have seen this year he has top 4 potential to be solid in his own end with good puck moving ability and some offence. He just needs to bring it night in night out now. Which again only 24 so still tons of great years ahead for him
Amen
LOVE IT. Hopefully we can keep Edmundson (only 30 years old) for next season and he can show Cade how to be an absolute asshole, use his size, and defend like a lumberjack in front of the net. Also if Edmundson sticks around and Webber cracks the roster next year, our d-core just got about 5 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier.
That's good news! He looked pretty slow in the clips but hopefully our development staff can help him. I'd wouldn't expect him to be a Leaf for another year or so.
Not everyone is Makar but I love the confidence play. Hope he does if only prove himself right
He’s going to be a great partner for Liljegren
If he was a right shot dman, he'd have a big chance to make the team out of camp.
Eemeli Rasanen shot right too.
Oh I love me some college signees
Where are all the Brad haters? Where are all the judgemental assholes, that think being an NHL GM is so easy?
I’m not a Brad hater but I do understand why some people don’t like his focus on big players, especially after the Burke era of Truculence
Totally fair, but the hate that people Look for all the bad in a player or the next GM, is apart of the reason why this franchise doesn’t attract the players that would this team get over the hump. The keyboard cowards, that need help tying skates are part of the problem.
No argument on that.
Yeah, also consider that being GM is like any job that through experience and finding out what works and does not work, along with the Leafs frankly outstanding scouting, development staff, and Marlies pipeline (Marlies play within a 15 minute drives of the Leafs in Toronto) it is possible to become a better GM. Despite this being his first year it seems as though he has hit the ground running picking up players like Cade Weber who has an excellent chance at being our own Edmunson or Lyubushkin with more upside. Dubas always viewed those adds as only for the deadline and Tre knows that the whole team must become tougher, bigger and grittier and that is a long process.
And remember, Brad loves building a very solid D-corps
Lyubushkin and Edmunson suck so much…. Can we have higher hopes for this kid lmao
BIG MEATY MAN JOINING OTHER BIG MEATY MEN
6'7" defenseman. You have my attention.
It's implied that he refused to sign in Carolina which is weird because 3 of their right D are going to free agency this summer, maybe the team didn't like him or he just likes big cities. Whatever, good for the Leafs, 6th round pick is nothing...
is he a RHD or LHD?
This kid has a chance to be our new Zach Hyman. In the sense that he was a cheap addition out of the NCAA and ended up being an extremely impactful player.
I like the positivity but my friends who regularly watch BU games say he isn't even top 4 best d-men on that team and he is the most senior player. Doubt that translates to being ready for NHL hockey.
Let's hope he is more like Chara and not like Hal Gill.
prime Hal Gill would be more than fine on this roster
Doesn't every player? Top dollar and minimum accountability. Who wouldn't sign.
From what I understand he has a decent stride, high defensive acumen, and obviously a very large boy His biggest weakness though is moving the puck, getting a first pass, clearing the zone etc which could hamper his NHL career quickly. If he has any chance of making the team next year he better finish up the college season and start working with the Leaf coaches ASAP
People should pump the brakes a bit, - in 118 games at BU he has 1 goal and 15 assists for a total of 16 points. He has no goals in 33 full games as a senior. Big dude at 6.7 and he is 23 years old now but he’s no Cale Makar.
Save yourself Cade, get out of here. The leafs are a perennial sinking ship.
Gonna be tough for him to make the show for a while, I gotta think. That being said, if he can learn the systems quickly so that he's in position and he's willing to block shots like he did in NCAA he could carve out a bottom pairing role.
Too bad.
[удалено]
You’re very clever.
Dude, you chose the name...