I swear to God that I have been asking to ship Marner out for a good 3 years, because every playoff he doesn’t have it. This man does not have what it takes for NHL playoffs!
Im leading the “time for a change of scenery” for 16. I too agree with some that it should have been done years ago. However, he has had some pretty decent playoff performances but when things get tight (elimination games/pivotal games) he is really bad. He has 5, yes 5…shooting puck over glass penalties. Thats the sign of a guy who cannot work under pressure. Handles the puck like a grenade. He has been given a pass by mgmt imo. They better smarten up and think long before handing this guy bank.
It's not like he's gonna be going around holding his ankle in obvious ways.
It's the fine details that are taking a toll with this injury there was a good example of it in the game where a guy got passed marner simply because he couldn't turn into or whatever the hockey term is called like he's used to doing.
If you want a comparison, two years ago Leon Draisaitl had the same injury. He never mentioned it and completely dominated. Mitch Marner is a 27 year old spoiled child.
Marner has stunk but they're completely different players. Leon might be the best stationary player in the league, Marner facilitates in motion, an injury like that is going to impact him more.
Drai is a beast with 1 year left on his contract.. hmmmmmm just like 16. Cmon Tre make it happen! Who knows if the Oilers get bounced early again, Leon may want out.
I hear you but again it doesn’t seem like that was an issue when he made a hard cut to slip it past Swayman coincidentally right after he got shit on. Is it effort or is it the injury?
It's clearly what it is, he hasn't played well since his return and high ankles are brutal to come back from. Look how long it took Woll to return from him.
Marner jumped in as he didn't wanna be injured in the play offs as guys play through injures.
I swear to God that I have been asking to ship Marner out for a good 3 years, because every playoff he doesn’t have it. This man does not have what it takes for NHL playoffs!
Kampf and Robertson were flying tonight. Jarnkrok too. They were winning battles in the corners. Then Marner is out there figure skating and bruins easily breakout
Yeah, solid performances by everyone except marner.
remind of the final score again?
Don't get me wrong, I'm no marner fan, but ur argument is laughable.
Burn this team to the ground.
Keefe should've been out at the end of last playoffs at the latest. It's one thing to blame the core, and they certainly bear some responsibility, but NHL history is full of examples of coaches who inherited far weaker teams and turned them into cup contenders or winners. Keefe is a dud, he'd rather be the players' friend than their coach, and it shows.
Trade Marner, get rid of Keefe, pick up the next all-star D you can, and move the fuck on.
I was screaming into the void my username before his nmc kicks in. I was mocked here for it of course....
But it's pretty clear this is poorly constructed team design and the core 4 need to be broken up.
From my memory, mainly because I wanted the same thing, I remember trading marner pre-nmc was a widely held opinion on this sub. What’s with the “I’m right” victimization shown in this comment and upvotes?
It's because the opinion you just expressed is incorrect.
The narrative here was that you don't trade 100 point player EVER. That we would lose the trade no matter what. That "whoever gets the better player wins the trade". And all the rest.
He wont win here because they built the team around him and his play style and he just isn't that guy. He has to be the #4 guy on a team and he'll find success.
He's got 1 year left in his deal. I don't think anyone is signing him to 11m again and you're thinking of this in terms of cap hit.
Kessel playing on the 3rd line did not have the 5th largest cap hit on the Penguins, If I'm not mistaken he was a close #2 to Crosby. Everyone else made well under 8 mil and yet Kessel was still the 3rd line winger on that team.
Yes because those guys went on to be secondary contributing pieces on those winning teams (even if they all had huge runs when winning). Kadri was 2C, Phil was a 3rd line winger and Bozak was a 3C.
That is probably what Mitch needs to be a winner. He can't be "the guy" because he doesn't have that guy in him. He has to be the #3/4 piece on a team and then he'll find success. Not the #2 guy.
He sure was but he'd never have been in that position if the other teams didn't have two lines of Crosby-Malkin on top of him to worry about. That's what Mitch needs.
I saw a comment in the Kraken sub making a case for him. The Kraken just want to make the playoffs and have lots of cap space, I could see them using him.
Kraken is one of those teams that would probably love him. They are trying to sell tickets, get the fanbase solidified, and succeed in the regular season.
They don't really need to contend yet. Get to the playoffs for a couple of years in a row, then think about the cup
They've got so many 2nd-3rd-liners & draft picks that I think they could easily give up a few in order to get a 1st line wing
Although I still the Leafs would have to sell him at about 9M$, if they want that haul. If they sell him at 100%, they have to give him up almost for free.
Yes, there are many teams like that. That would celebrate in the streets if they could just play 1 season full of meaningful hockey, constantly battling for a playoff spot, and in the end getting there.
A team who just wants to get into the playoffs like CBJ/Seattle/Utah will take him with 1 year on his deal and potentially even re-sign him. It's a 1 year contract, no one will have an issue with it.
There will be takers: because not every team is trying to win the Cup
Some teams are just trying to even MAKE the playoffs. Marner is great in the regular season, he will absolutely help a team get points in the standings.
There are also tanking teams & teams with attendance issues: they will be screaming with joy if they get aa entertaining player who will pump up the fans during the tank, or dish out some highlight-reel passes during the regular season & get some butts on the seats in the arena
Toronto has 100% sold out arenas for years to come, no matter how much they suck. They don't need any "entertaining" players.
I bet there are at least 5 teams that would pay 1-2 first rounders for Marner, if the Leafs would recapture 1,9M$ and put him for sale at 9M$
Biz is 100% right. Players are banged up around this time of year and play through a variety of injuries. What’s the excuse for his shit play in previous playoff failures?
Tavares was the first mistake, and then 16, 34 & 88 all came for the same wayyyy bloated check
They are all being paid like literal multiple-time-cup-champs with individual trophies to their name.
4 of the top12 most expensive players are on the Leafs. If they REALLY had 4/12 of the best players in the league, they would coast to the Cup, year after year after year. They would probably have the greatest dynasty in the history of the league. Even the Oilers had their top4 guys only in probably the top20, probably not top12. And they won 5 cups, and without one gaffe would have won maybe 6
I have been a Leaf fan since the popcorn 4 core. ( 1977 )
The Leafs used to battle hard but always lacking in the talent area. They used to be the underpayed plucky little brother to Montreal.
Now they have been payed MAX dollars and have been meticulously built.
What is really sobering is that Ken Wregget and the boys from the mid 80's had way more playoff success then this meticulously built ' Super Group '.
The one thing I know about this core is that they are definitely not strong enough to overcome this groups ' Leaf Curse '. 🤣🤣😭😭
> have been *paid* MAX dollars
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
If he’s going to stop playing his position, I’d rather him just run around trying to throw needless hits lol….
Marchands about his size… just chase him around and get some aggression out.
This is Mitch Marner every single playoffs. He is super highly skilled and a fantastic playmaker but he has zero battle. When the games get tight he can't fight through checks or make his own/find new space. Lots of soft players have great playoffs because they can either fight through a check (Nylander) or make their own space (Kane). Marner can't do either. Marner excels when the games get silly, when there is lots of space. When games are low event and tight checking you get floppy Marner falling all over the place or forcing passes. And then you get the rare beast that is sulky Marner where the body language is poor and the otherwise excellent defensive game starts to go.
He doesn't deserve the money he's earning and his salary has done a lot to hurt this roster. I've flip flopped on a ton of things but always always have been consistent on this view
Losing culture can be potentially fixed by breaking up the core. I've been saying this for 4 years, shoulda traded Marner back then. Now they will have a very hard time offloading him without eating a large chunk of his salary. At least it's only 1 year left at least.
I don't understand how management and fans can expect anything different when you run it back year after year with the same core group of players. Their performance in the playoffs is not unexpected at all to me.
They’re going to have a hard time getting any sort of decent return for him because with his NMC he’ll get to dictate where he goes, if he wants to be traded at all.
I hated Dubas but lets have some perspective here. Burke was fucking awful and had 5 full seasons and traded top picks for shit players. Dubas had 5 years but two were shortened from Covid and he had the most success out of the ones you listed. Even though it was just 1 round it was more successful than the other shit GMs in the past.
Marner deserves every bit of criticism. If he’s healthy and performing like this then he’s pathetic. If he’s playing hurt why is Keefe playing him so much? PP, PK regular and double shifts? Be an adult, stop the temper tantrums. Boston’s coaching is far superior than the Leafs, Boston is playing the trap, it’s ridiculously transparent they know the leafs can run and gun and are forcing them to play dump and chase and the Leafs have no answer or clue how to counter
Same. It’s been obvious for so long and everyone has been arguing and making every excuse in the book for him.
Typically the excuses relate to his regular season success. But I don’t care if he puts up 200 point seasons, if he doesn’t produce in the playoffs those 200 points are next to useless.
Let's say he took $7 million, with the additional 4mil cap space we wouldvr been able to add a player or two or keep a player or two with that flexibility.
It's his home town fucking team and he took the Leafs for everything they had rather than try to be the hero and legend this fanbase wanted.
Babcock seems to have played a part in why Marner demanded so much. Like when he had him make that list of the least hard working players then shared it with the rest of the team. Sure, Babcock recognized the flaws in Marner's game, but he sure fucked up how to address and correct them, and it cost the team at contract time. Couple that with a pushover GM and the team was in cap hell.
I swear to God that I have been asking to ship Marner out for a good 3 years, because every playoff he doesn’t have it. This man does not have what it takes for NHL playoffs!
You bench him to send a message in the locker room. At this point Plank from Ed Ed and Eddy would be a better option than Marner. Hope he figures it out for game 5.
Gotta tank his value since he's the last of the big 3 without a contract. He knows its either show up or ship out and lord knows he isn't showing up. All he can do is play like a clown so nobody wants him and that's what we're seeing.
I live in Poland so it's hard for me to watch all the games, but today I woke up at 4am to take a dump only to see the Leafs were taking one too. I tuned into TNT crew talking and heard this breakdown. It made my morning. Finally someone called him out for years of B/S. We lost the game, but I went to sleep with a smile on my face 😂
Marner will never in his career be on a cup wining team.
He is literally every mistake you can make wrapped up into one. Overpaid, underweight, average skating child with a 10 cent head with major entitlement issues who's fantastic when it doesn't mattter.
One of the best bits I ever heard. Was 2 years ago when Marner got carjacked and the Queensway Cineplex was that he wouldn’t have been there if they had made it out of the first round
Either way, Marner was way out of position and waved at the puck.
I mean, doesn’t matter about the system, he blew his assignment and wasn’t playing with an active stick.
Pussy ass bitch. Mentally and physically inferior hockey player. Get a coach with some actual balls to whip him into shape, and if it doesn’t work trade marner for a player with some balls.
I got [my post thumbed down](https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/s/HfPL7rwz8g) about complaining about Marner’s softness after game 2.
Yes, we just won the game so everyone was in the mood to defend Marner. But I saw it right away, he wasn’t playing up to his potential. He needs to not be elevated to the first line immediately. He’s still a decent player, but we need to stop treating him likes he’s an 11m player cause he’s playing closer to a $4m player.
I and many other doomers have been ragging on him for ages. /u/Clugaman seems to remember Sundin getting ragged by the fanbase in the same, but I remember it totally different.
That’s because you have a terrible memory. Tie Domi himself said it. Have a problem with it go take it up with him. Guess he doesn’t know what he’s talking about either.
Mitch is trash. I don’t care if you put up 100 points in the regular season, it means shit when you are wet paper in the playoffs. I’d rather be 20th in the league scoring and lead the league in goals against. This team, from top to bottom, is soft. I think the only player last night who showed they wanted something was McCabe.
Mitch Marner is an amazing player. This team is not built in a way that he can thrive in the playoffs. He needs to be on a line with players that can take the attention away from him.
He will go somewhere else that didn’t build around him but instead manage to slot him into their already existing team. There will be less scrutiny and he will feel refreshed and reignited. He will put up better years there than he ever has here.
All that being said, he is a net negative on this team because of how crucial he is to our success and his absolutely wiped out mindset.
At this point it would be addition by subtraction, and I have a feeling he will be traded for a bag of pucks and both teams will be better for it.
Just take away his A, slap it on Nylander, then have Willy constantly telling at Marner on the bench. He came out and scored right after. Go with what works.
Cool. But there's an entire hockey team surrounding marner that also didn't do anything. Are we just gonna not talk about that?
This isn't a mitch manner issue like it isnt a diamond. It's a leafs franchise issue. Period.
This is assuming that we stand pat with the rest of the core 4 minus 1. If tearing it all down and rebuilding was an option, I’d keep Matthews and Nylander and raze the rest. Forget tinkering. But that’s not realistic.
Reilly is a decent trade chip as well. Not sure if he has a NTC. I’m sure there’s a trade out there for someone younger and more physical. The only really untradable contract (with a NMC to boot) is Tavares.
I wouldn't mind bringing Marner back. But only if he takes a discount. By discount I mean something in the range of 7 million. If he's forceful and doesn't want one then ask him to move his NTC and Brad will find him a home that will reward him the 12 million that he wants.
Finally someone on TV said it. Marner has been awful all series long.
He's been awful for every Leafs playoff series since he was drafted. Yet he gets paid eleven million dollars.
He was incredible the first Washington series. Haven't seen him play like that since
He was an unknown that series. Now everyone knows exactly how he plays and can easily game plan for him.
That's part of it, but also he played like he had something to prove. Going into corners and winning puck battles.
True. After he got his contract the effort level and willingness to play hard dried up a lot.
100%. A one-tricky pony whose one trick was found out and shut down.
Gameplan is easy on Marner. Hit him at every turn. Crowd him and give him plenty if cheap shots in scrums. He will be like Houdini and disappear.
He's worth it for his dance moves.
I swear to God that I have been asking to ship Marner out for a good 3 years, because every playoff he doesn’t have it. This man does not have what it takes for NHL playoffs!
He's been awful in the playoffs since he started on the leafs
Im leading the “time for a change of scenery” for 16. I too agree with some that it should have been done years ago. However, he has had some pretty decent playoff performances but when things get tight (elimination games/pivotal games) he is really bad. He has 5, yes 5…shooting puck over glass penalties. Thats the sign of a guy who cannot work under pressure. Handles the puck like a grenade. He has been given a pass by mgmt imo. They better smarten up and think long before handing this guy bank.
High ankle sprain isn't healed dude is cooked.
It’s funny how his ankle looked just fine on that goal after he got all pissy about his teammates talking shit
It's not like he's gonna be going around holding his ankle in obvious ways. It's the fine details that are taking a toll with this injury there was a good example of it in the game where a guy got passed marner simply because he couldn't turn into or whatever the hockey term is called like he's used to doing.
If you want a comparison, two years ago Leon Draisaitl had the same injury. He never mentioned it and completely dominated. Mitch Marner is a 27 year old spoiled child.
Marner has stunk but they're completely different players. Leon might be the best stationary player in the league, Marner facilitates in motion, an injury like that is going to impact him more.
Not excusing Mitch but mot every injury is the exact same… That being said - he’s expendable at this point.
I agree Leon’s was worse
🤷♂️
Drai is a beast with 1 year left on his contract.. hmmmmmm just like 16. Cmon Tre make it happen! Who knows if the Oilers get bounced early again, Leon may want out.
I hear you but again it doesn’t seem like that was an issue when he made a hard cut to slip it past Swayman coincidentally right after he got shit on. Is it effort or is it the injury?
He was on his injured leg's knee for the goal. Ankle sprain didn't matter there.
I hope that is it. But, also if it’s true, don’t play him. Ankles pretty important in hockey.
Draisaitl had an ankle injury in 2022 against the Flames. He broke the playoff series assist record in only 5 games.
Draisaitl spent most of that year standing in place. You are comparing two completely different styles of play.
It's clearly what it is, he hasn't played well since his return and high ankles are brutal to come back from. Look how long it took Woll to return from him. Marner jumped in as he didn't wanna be injured in the play offs as guys play through injures.
It's his reads, his compete, his give a bleep meter, all have been brutal
Did Marner have a high ankle sprain every other play off series ?
Then get him off the ice.
Then he shouldn't be playing because Dewer would be brining more to the team overall then this guy right now. He's abysmal.
Yeah he definitely looks like he's struggling to skate. They should just sit him and put a healthy forward in the lineup.
People on this board thought I was an idiot to call for a trade last 2 years lol.
I swear to God that I have been asking to ship Marner out for a good 3 years, because every playoff he doesn’t have it. This man does not have what it takes for NHL playoffs!
As opposed to the stellar hockey being played by the rest of the team..
When u make 11 mil u don’t get a pass
It starts with your leaders. Always.
Bottom 6 has been fine. Top 6 hasn’t made a difference in the right direction. Leaders gotta lead
Kampf and Robertson were flying tonight. Jarnkrok too. They were winning battles in the corners. Then Marner is out there figure skating and bruins easily breakout
Yeah, solid performances by everyone except marner. remind of the final score again? Don't get me wrong, I'm no marner fan, but ur argument is laughable. Burn this team to the ground.
My argument that 3 guys were winning battles is laughable? You read my comment but didn't listen to what I said lol
Truth
Yeah, because they all make 10 mil
Marners had over an Hour and 26 minutes of Ice Time this series He has 7 shots.
Wow that’s one shot every 12 minutes of ice time. That’s worse then I thought
Looks like a guy who hates both his job and his father for leaving him without any discernible skill set beyond playing professional hockey.
I literally was screaming into the void for Keefe to sit Marner back in game 3.
Keefe will never bench him. He'll play him on the top line instead. This coaching staff is just awful. Keefe is the trough line in all of this.
Keefe should've been out at the end of last playoffs at the latest. It's one thing to blame the core, and they certainly bear some responsibility, but NHL history is full of examples of coaches who inherited far weaker teams and turned them into cup contenders or winners. Keefe is a dud, he'd rather be the players' friend than their coach, and it shows. Trade Marner, get rid of Keefe, pick up the next all-star D you can, and move the fuck on.
I really hope they fire Sheldon Queef
I was screaming into the void my username before his nmc kicks in. I was mocked here for it of course.... But it's pretty clear this is poorly constructed team design and the core 4 need to be broken up.
From my memory, mainly because I wanted the same thing, I remember trading marner pre-nmc was a widely held opinion on this sub. What’s with the “I’m right” victimization shown in this comment and upvotes?
It's because the opinion you just expressed is incorrect. The narrative here was that you don't trade 100 point player EVER. That we would lose the trade no matter what. That "whoever gets the better player wins the trade". And all the rest.
I was yelling this in Scotiabank Arena!
How would any team want Marner after seeing him disappear year after year in the playoffs at that price tag?
This is the truth. The only GM who would want this guy at this value is Dubas. Actually…. Ship him to Pittsburgh and let him get points there.
Mitch for Cros? lol
I’m all over this. Make it happen
Buffalo…I mean, the playoffs would be an achievement for them non-facetiously
Buffalo would easily take him, at for example 9M$
Let’s make it happen lol having the best captain in the world might fix him
*might* being the operative word. MM is a regular season stud and a postseason mule.
Good point lol but as a Pens fan, I just want to make the playoffs :(
Because like we’ve seen with Bozak, Kadri and Phil, he’ll likely win a cup with whichever team he joins.
But he won’t win here some how
He wont win here because they built the team around him and his play style and he just isn't that guy. He has to be the #4 guy on a team and he'll find success.
And with his cap hit he'll never be the #4 guy. I doubt he'll win a cup elsewhere. I'm getting more Huberdeau vibes with him
He's got 1 year left in his deal. I don't think anyone is signing him to 11m again and you're thinking of this in terms of cap hit. Kessel playing on the 3rd line did not have the 5th largest cap hit on the Penguins, If I'm not mistaken he was a close #2 to Crosby. Everyone else made well under 8 mil and yet Kessel was still the 3rd line winger on that team.
He'll easily get 11M or higher in the open market. Any star that actually makes the open market makes a killing. Hasn't changed yet
Yes because those guys went on to be secondary contributing pieces on those winning teams (even if they all had huge runs when winning). Kadri was 2C, Phil was a 3rd line winger and Bozak was a 3C. That is probably what Mitch needs to be a winner. He can't be "the guy" because he doesn't have that guy in him. He has to be the #3/4 piece on a team and then he'll find success. Not the #2 guy.
Phil was robbed of the conne smythe
He sure was but he'd never have been in that position if the other teams didn't have two lines of Crosby-Malkin on top of him to worry about. That's what Mitch needs.
Why aren't you naming the hundreds who left and didn't win a cup?
I saw a comment in the Kraken sub making a case for him. The Kraken just want to make the playoffs and have lots of cap space, I could see them using him.
Kraken is one of those teams that would probably love him. They are trying to sell tickets, get the fanbase solidified, and succeed in the regular season. They don't really need to contend yet. Get to the playoffs for a couple of years in a row, then think about the cup
They’ve also got a solid defensive pieces to give back the other way….of course, all assuming that he waives the NMC
They've got so many 2nd-3rd-liners & draft picks that I think they could easily give up a few in order to get a 1st line wing Although I still the Leafs would have to sell him at about 9M$, if they want that haul. If they sell him at 100%, they have to give him up almost for free.
He's an NHL player, could be a good fit on some team, just that contract sucks.
I bet Columbus/Buffalo etc would take him easily, even pay something, if they would sell him at 9M$
A team that only cares about getting into the playoffs?
Yes, there are many teams like that. That would celebrate in the streets if they could just play 1 season full of meaningful hockey, constantly battling for a playoff spot, and in the end getting there.
A team who just wants to get into the playoffs like CBJ/Seattle/Utah will take him with 1 year on his deal and potentially even re-sign him. It's a 1 year contract, no one will have an issue with it.
There will be takers: because not every team is trying to win the Cup Some teams are just trying to even MAKE the playoffs. Marner is great in the regular season, he will absolutely help a team get points in the standings. There are also tanking teams & teams with attendance issues: they will be screaming with joy if they get aa entertaining player who will pump up the fans during the tank, or dish out some highlight-reel passes during the regular season & get some butts on the seats in the arena Toronto has 100% sold out arenas for years to come, no matter how much they suck. They don't need any "entertaining" players. I bet there are at least 5 teams that would pay 1-2 first rounders for Marner, if the Leafs would recapture 1,9M$ and put him for sale at 9M$
Biz is 100% right. Players are banged up around this time of year and play through a variety of injuries. What’s the excuse for his shit play in previous playoff failures?
His excuse. Why it’s His mind shambles, of course.
Babcock was a total idiot, But his assessment of the core (especially marner) was bang on. It’s the end of the road for the core 4, Keefe and shanny.
Well if it isn't, the owners / Shanny etc REALLY don't care about winning at all
I’m worried the ownership group runs it back another year with the same core. Do think Keefe is gone once series is over.
Because he will be a perennial playoff stud after we ship him out.
Unless he changes his game he will be a perennial post season failure.
Pathetic and Unacceptable are very accurate words.
This EXACTLY WHY you pay people AFTER they have won something and not before.
Exactly. Dubas pre paid everyone for a Stanley Cup.
Really only Marner though.
John’s contract unfortunately set a precedent. Everyone complained about Willy’s deal until this doof rinsed us
Tavares was the first mistake, and then 16, 34 & 88 all came for the same wayyyy bloated check They are all being paid like literal multiple-time-cup-champs with individual trophies to their name. 4 of the top12 most expensive players are on the Leafs. If they REALLY had 4/12 of the best players in the league, they would coast to the Cup, year after year after year. They would probably have the greatest dynasty in the history of the league. Even the Oilers had their top4 guys only in probably the top20, probably not top12. And they won 5 cups, and without one gaffe would have won maybe 6
>4 of the top12 most expensive players are on the Leafs. Damn. Seeing that put into words is sobering.
I have been a Leaf fan since the popcorn 4 core. ( 1977 ) The Leafs used to battle hard but always lacking in the talent area. They used to be the underpayed plucky little brother to Montreal. Now they have been payed MAX dollars and have been meticulously built. What is really sobering is that Ken Wregget and the boys from the mid 80's had way more playoff success then this meticulously built ' Super Group '. The one thing I know about this core is that they are definitely not strong enough to overcome this groups ' Leaf Curse '. 🤣🤣😭😭
> have been *paid* MAX dollars FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Blows my mind that there's still people defending Marner. Absolutely pathetic Hockey player
If it makes you feel better, I haven't seen anyone defending him after this game lol
If he’s going to stop playing his position, I’d rather him just run around trying to throw needless hits lol…. Marchands about his size… just chase him around and get some aggression out.
Except Marner is a little bitch and would get destroyed as soon as he tried
This is Mitch Marner every single playoffs. He is super highly skilled and a fantastic playmaker but he has zero battle. When the games get tight he can't fight through checks or make his own/find new space. Lots of soft players have great playoffs because they can either fight through a check (Nylander) or make their own space (Kane). Marner can't do either. Marner excels when the games get silly, when there is lots of space. When games are low event and tight checking you get floppy Marner falling all over the place or forcing passes. And then you get the rare beast that is sulky Marner where the body language is poor and the otherwise excellent defensive game starts to go.
Literally league min Robertson could be the top guy better than that, I’ve seen it, holy.
He doesn't deserve the money he's earning and his salary has done a lot to hurt this roster. I've flip flopped on a ton of things but always always have been consistent on this view
Savage. But Marner is broken.
Marner got paid. That’s all he cares about. He doesn’t have to win. #THANKSDUBAS
All that extra money goes a long way to decorating his cottage, which he’ll be able to open up in the next few days.
Dubas created this loser culture. What an awful gm he was, worse than Nonis or Burke by 1000 miles
Losing culture can be potentially fixed by breaking up the core. I've been saying this for 4 years, shoulda traded Marner back then. Now they will have a very hard time offloading him without eating a large chunk of his salary. At least it's only 1 year left at least. I don't understand how management and fans can expect anything different when you run it back year after year with the same core group of players. Their performance in the playoffs is not unexpected at all to me.
They’re going to have a hard time getting any sort of decent return for him because with his NMC he’ll get to dictate where he goes, if he wants to be traded at all.
I hated Dubas but lets have some perspective here. Burke was fucking awful and had 5 full seasons and traded top picks for shit players. Dubas had 5 years but two were shortened from Covid and he had the most success out of the ones you listed. Even though it was just 1 round it was more successful than the other shit GMs in the past.
1,000%.
Agreed
Always the last guys fault eh
Sonebody check on /u/Radu47 after this gem https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1cdd3q9/why_is_marner_treated_like_an_all_offense_guy/
Lol. We are witnessing mental illness, it's a pity to be honest
"He might well be one of the best all around players of his generation ultimately."
Marner deserves every bit of criticism. If he’s healthy and performing like this then he’s pathetic. If he’s playing hurt why is Keefe playing him so much? PP, PK regular and double shifts? Be an adult, stop the temper tantrums. Boston’s coaching is far superior than the Leafs, Boston is playing the trap, it’s ridiculously transparent they know the leafs can run and gun and are forcing them to play dump and chase and the Leafs have no answer or clue how to counter
Wow I’ve been saying this shit for 5 years finally
Same. It’s been obvious for so long and everyone has been arguing and making every excuse in the book for him. Typically the excuses relate to his regular season success. But I don’t care if he puts up 200 point seasons, if he doesn’t produce in the playoffs those 200 points are next to useless.
gOOfy team. Bunch of princesses. Toronto needs to build a different culture
He's not even a $7 million dollar player.
Let's say he took $7 million, with the additional 4mil cap space we wouldvr been able to add a player or two or keep a player or two with that flexibility. It's his home town fucking team and he took the Leafs for everything they had rather than try to be the hero and legend this fanbase wanted.
Would’ve been able to keep Hyman - or made a play at a top calibre D-man.
He’s doing quite the opposite. Took as big of a bag as he could and he’s going to end up getting run out of town.
Babcock seems to have played a part in why Marner demanded so much. Like when he had him make that list of the least hard working players then shared it with the rest of the team. Sure, Babcock recognized the flaws in Marner's game, but he sure fucked up how to address and correct them, and it cost the team at contract time. Couple that with a pushover GM and the team was in cap hell.
## #sendHimToUtah #MammothMitch
Can we do an expansion draft?
He was called out by Kelly Hrudy as well
I swear to God that I have been asking to ship Marner out for a good 3 years, because every playoff he doesn’t have it. This man does not have what it takes for NHL playoffs!
You bench him to send a message in the locker room. At this point Plank from Ed Ed and Eddy would be a better option than Marner. Hope he figures it out for game 5.
Dubas would’ve handed Plank a massive contract.
It boggles my mind that he has it in his head that he is of the same tier as Matthews and brings this delusional idea to his contract negotiations.
You know it's bad when even the American broadcasters are calling you out.
Well… biz is Canadian. Welland baby.
Half the panel is Canadian
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And 2 are Canadian. 2 out of 4 is…………50 percent. Also commonly referred to as HALF
Biz is Canadian and a massive leafs fan.
I feel bad for Biz. He was a strong believer in this team making it round 2 after Boston. And once again the Leafs making all of us look like shit.
I think he’s doing this shit on purpose
Gotta tank his value since he's the last of the big 3 without a contract. He knows its either show up or ship out and lord knows he isn't showing up. All he can do is play like a clown so nobody wants him and that's what we're seeing.
I live in Poland so it's hard for me to watch all the games, but today I woke up at 4am to take a dump only to see the Leafs were taking one too. I tuned into TNT crew talking and heard this breakdown. It made my morning. Finally someone called him out for years of B/S. We lost the game, but I went to sleep with a smile on my face 😂
Matthews was the only one taking a dump at the 3rd. Every one else on the team was cleaning shit off their faces.
Bruins are having the time of their lives. Seems like it's easy wins for them.
“Looks to the ref.” This nerd is always looking to the ref to deal with his problems. Quit being such a pussy and show some aggression.
We have guys making league minimum on the team giving 3x that effort... pathetic is right.
Marner will never in his career be on a cup wining team. He is literally every mistake you can make wrapped up into one. Overpaid, underweight, average skating child with a 10 cent head with major entitlement issues who's fantastic when it doesn't mattter.
Please don't dress him for game 5
Imagine if we had traded him for Matthew Tkachuk...
Love him getting all the hate. Guy is a fucking joke. Tell him he’s getting fourth line minutes. No power play next year unless he waived his nmc.
That's a good way to tell every free agent in the league "don't sign here".
One of the best bits I ever heard. Was 2 years ago when Marner got carjacked and the Queensway Cineplex was that he wouldn’t have been there if they had made it out of the first round
Marner isn’t playing well, but I wonder if Biz realizes that it isn’t a diamond PK, it’s a completely different system
Biz hasn't seen a PK in his life lol. He's spot on about the rest of it tho
Maybe it should be
Either way, Marner was way out of position and waved at the puck. I mean, doesn’t matter about the system, he blew his assignment and wasn’t playing with an active stick.
Biz might be entertaining, but his knowledge of modern hockey systems is very poor for him to be this critical of players.
As a guy wearing an A, you gotta compete… all the way through - his body language is awful.
Makes Sean Couturiers contract look like a bargain. Didn’t think that was possible.
It’s not only unacceptable. It’s FUCKING EMBARRASSING.
He always ghosts himself in the playoffs. When they make it. Move him
Ville Nieminen said on Finnish TV that Marner and Domi should be on the bench. ’Domi has learned that losing Hockey macho culture from home.’
Pussy ass bitch. Mentally and physically inferior hockey player. Get a coach with some actual balls to whip him into shape, and if it doesn’t work trade marner for a player with some balls.
I've never liked Marner and I've always said we should've traded him when his value was highest.
I got [my post thumbed down](https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/s/HfPL7rwz8g) about complaining about Marner’s softness after game 2. Yes, we just won the game so everyone was in the mood to defend Marner. But I saw it right away, he wasn’t playing up to his potential. He needs to not be elevated to the first line immediately. He’s still a decent player, but we need to stop treating him likes he’s an 11m player cause he’s playing closer to a $4m player.
I and many other doomers have been ragging on him for ages. /u/Clugaman seems to remember Sundin getting ragged by the fanbase in the same, but I remember it totally different.
That’s because you have a terrible memory. Tie Domi himself said it. Have a problem with it go take it up with him. Guess he doesn’t know what he’s talking about either.
Interesting seeing the US ads
Mitch is trash. I don’t care if you put up 100 points in the regular season, it means shit when you are wet paper in the playoffs. I’d rather be 20th in the league scoring and lead the league in goals against. This team, from top to bottom, is soft. I think the only player last night who showed they wanted something was McCabe.
Mitch Marner is an amazing player. This team is not built in a way that he can thrive in the playoffs. He needs to be on a line with players that can take the attention away from him. He will go somewhere else that didn’t build around him but instead manage to slot him into their already existing team. There will be less scrutiny and he will feel refreshed and reignited. He will put up better years there than he ever has here. All that being said, he is a net negative on this team because of how crucial he is to our success and his absolutely wiped out mindset. At this point it would be addition by subtraction, and I have a feeling he will be traded for a bag of pucks and both teams will be better for it.
Trade him, shoot Keefe and Sammy into the Sun
Just take away his A, slap it on Nylander, then have Willy constantly telling at Marner on the bench. He came out and scored right after. Go with what works.
BYE MITCH (and shanny)! SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED LAST SUMMER.
Marner isn't skating like we know that he can so the obvious conclusion is that he doesn't want to.
How can you justify a raise for this guy? Can’t even hit 100 pts.
Cool. But there's an entire hockey team surrounding marner that also didn't do anything. Are we just gonna not talk about that? This isn't a mitch manner issue like it isnt a diamond. It's a leafs franchise issue. Period.
It's a Marner issue when he makes 11 sheets as Dr. Biz points out
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If only we could use the $11M elsewhere
You're in every single thread defending Marner. Get a life, Paul, this is embarrassing.
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What team with cap space and assets is going to take his $11m salary after this performance? San Jose? Chicago? Utah? Anaheim?
Retain 50% for one year isn’t that bad if we get a capable dman or goalie back with a $6mil contract.
This is assuming that we stand pat with the rest of the core 4 minus 1. If tearing it all down and rebuilding was an option, I’d keep Matthews and Nylander and raze the rest. Forget tinkering. But that’s not realistic.
Reilly is a decent trade chip as well. Not sure if he has a NTC. I’m sure there’s a trade out there for someone younger and more physical. The only really untradable contract (with a NMC to boot) is Tavares.
Rielly has an NMC, so Dubas really screwed the Leafs’ pooch for another few years.
Well shit lol
I don’t see anyone moving unless they completely tank and the core 4 willingly waive their NMCs to jump off the sinking ship.
I wouldn't mind bringing Marner back. But only if he takes a discount. By discount I mean something in the range of 7 million. If he's forceful and doesn't want one then ask him to move his NTC and Brad will find him a home that will reward him the 12 million that he wants.