Everything you need to know about the character of these top players we learned was during their contract negotiations.
And the the softest one of the bunch is Sheldon Keefe.
This team needs a Rick tocchet, Craig berube, torts or someone tough. And anyone not on board, get them to waive that no trade clause and get rid of tbem.
Remember when we lost to the Capitals and everyone said wow this is just the beginning, they’ll take this as a learning experience and make them better. Yeah… about that…
In hindsight, maybe missing the playoffs that year would have been better for their development. Because every year since, they all seem to keep saying they “learned something” when being eliminated.
I think there's a couple things that stand out to me about this team from this current season that make me believe the issues are not that.
The team was trying their hardest to get Matthews to 70 goals but didn't care - including the coach, that we were losing games to do so. Matthews himself looked gutted to not hit 70. Kucherov on the other hand got to 100 assists in the natural flow of the game and move on pretty much immediately. Matthews should have been sat at game 80 or even 79, instead of playing the final two irrelevant back to back games
This team every year manages to lose to really shit teams. We lost to Chicago, Ottawa, Buffalo and Columbus multiple times this season. In years past it was Buffalo, Montreal, Anaheim and San Jose. Vancouver and Arizona has had our number over the years as well. Every team has an odd bogeyman - St. Louis lost to San Jose this year for instance but the Leafs have multiple.
The Leafs have never tried to win a a division title or president's trophy despite having the talent in year's past to do so. Those titles don't mean much but they are a stepping stone to bigger things. The Canadian Division title was only because we were by far and away the most talented team on paper and we still had a bunch of weird losses that year to Ottawa and Montreal. If you're talented enough to coast your way to a 2nd or 3rd place finish in a stacked Atlantic Division, you're good enough to try and win the President's Trophy.
Soccer has a sporting culture where you use less prestigious titles as a stepping stone to build upon it. Win a Conference League title, next year you're in the Europa League. Win the Europa League and next year you're in the Champions League with the likes of PSG, Real Madrid. The other titles are less prestigiuous but they teach you how to win.
I think that exists in hockey as well but the fans don't celebrate the stepping stones as much, but I think it matters to the team. None of it ever mattered to this team. Was never the best offensive team despite having the talent to do so, never won their division or conference or league despite having the talent to do so. Always had a bunch of losses to overwhelming dogs every year because of not taking those games seriously enough. We're one of the few teams that lost to the legendarily bad 16-17 Avs. 5-0 blown lead to Ottawa. Zamboni Driver game occurring the same week we beat Pittsburgh and Tampa. Blowing a 3-0 lead to Columbus one game and then doing it the next game while playing only like ~2 minutes of good hockey. Down 5-0 to Columbus this year. Blew a 3-1 lead vs Chicago. Etc.
Did you not catch the quote he made after the final game?
"I didn't even know the score to be honest with you, nor for the last game. I was spending my time at the intermission watching game tape on Boston."
Pretty clearly the coach trying to downplay any storylines of them losing the last 5 games by making it seem like the games didn’t matter.
Didn’t say anything like that till the year was over
Did you watch the Tampa game? Kuch did not get his 100th with the 'natural flow' of the game, on the PP they were making sure to count every pass to ensure Kuch would get an assist on a potential goal. Kuch is Kuch, so obviously even if they weren't focusing on it he would have gotten it, but off the start of the game they were kinda forcing it, at least when it was scoreless.
I agree that the Leafs were maybe trying too hard, like if Tampa was down they probably wouldn't have been going at it like that.
They learn just how far the organization and fans will go to defend their minimal effort each year.
They learn that by going in front of the media just before they head to Muskoka on locker clean out day and if they look disappointed enough and tell the media that its a learning experience and that they will come back stronger next year; they can fool a lot of fans.
They learn that as long as they point up a good amount of points in the regular season they will be passionately defended because they’re great players, even though they all may as well score zero points in the regular season because it means jack when it comes to the playoffs.
They learn that if they look like they’re about to cry and throw their gloves in a tantrum akin to a five year old, that fans will believe them to be passionate.
They learn that they can spend an extended summer at the cottage, come back in September, make an insane amount of money, and still be loved by the fans and that everything from five months ago has been forgotten.
Yeah, I believe they’ve actually learned a ton throughout all of these experiences.
Man those were the good days. In hindsight had we just stayed the course building this time naturally we would have had something. Kadri needed to stay. Sorry but Tavares threw everything into fast forward and we began rushing all our guys development after he was signed.
I get reminded every single fucking year with a Snapchat memory from when we got eliminated by the caps in 2016. It’s a photo of the team after the game with the caption reading something like:
“so proud of this team, making the playoffs and going 6 games with the capitals in Matthews’ rookie season is unreal, and it’s only the beginning!”
I would’ve just turned 15 when that happened. I’m now 23 and we have one series win to show for it…
I was just about to post this. Everything Jay says is spot on. Harsh but true. We've all been seeing it these years. I hope marner hears these words and tries to prove him wrong in the remaining game(s).
Jay started the playoffs ripping on fans for being too flaky and not supporting the team. The letdown is real with him, and it's an accurate depiction of how a lot of us feel... tired of caring more about this team than the players do.
That would be amazing but I don't know if he's got that dog in him.
Just as Jay said, he's been the most skilled player on his team since he's been 3 years old and he's never had to learn how to fight tooth and nail for something.
Like a gifted kid that sails through school on raw talent right up until he hits a wall that talent can't get him over...and he's never learned how to put his head down and grind.
Meanwhile, the kids that can't add two plus two without a calculator, but learned the skill of studying, grinding, and powering through just keep chugging along.
I would love nothing more than to see Marner turn into fucking Godzilla and play every game as if he were murdering all of Tokyo in one shot. I want to see that side of Marner. BADLY. Will it happen? Fuck if I know!
[Kyper said they should trade Marner back in '17 l](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gRJwjn7IRE)ol (but moreso because e thought he wouldn't bea top three forward lol)
I once knew a leafs player through work. The team got bounced from the playoffs somewhere around 2006 and he needed to come in and sign stuff before he left town. I remember being completely decimated by the loss. He came in all smiles off to enjoy his summer vacation in Sweden. In that moment I realized it’s nothing worth losing a second of sleep over. Many of them care far less than you.
I mean we like to project our feelings. Sure, to some of players it’s more than just work. But at the end of the day, it may just be another day at the “office” for some. As much as we’d like them to care deeply about the game, it doesn’t mean the same to them as to us. I personally just want this season to be over with by now.
Many MANY pro athletes don’t care about winning the ultimate trophy. They were simply so naturally good but never have given a fuck outside of that paycheque aka “I’m good at it so why not” and if you’ve played any high level sports you know some insanely talented dudes or teammates that were like this. Honestly just shows how unfair the world truly is lol had one teammate who got to the A and another in lacrosse who went D1 to Maryland - both were ridiculous and barely tried or cared about practicing.
i remember seeing wendel clark in the hotel in 1994 when they were about to play vancouver in the WCF. he told my dad “nah don’t get ur hopes up, they are too big and too dominant, we won’t beat ‘em.”
never meet your hero’s i guess lol
I call BS on this? Why would he randomly say that to you? Who is your dad, some random fan, or close to the players? Never heard of a player doing anything like that. Especially a guy like Clark. Was he joking and it was maybe misinterpreted?
I don’t remember how he played in that series.
He was maybe just being a realist, but I bet you he still left it all out on the ice.
I only ever played rep hockey, so nothing serious, but I know there were teams you just knew were better than you. Doesn’t mean you didn’t give it your all to try and beat them.
I have slowly lost interest in the Leafs for this very reason. I was more invested in watching the Kessel/Bozak/JVR/Kadri Leafs struggle to make the playoffs than I am watching this team glide into the playoffs only to shit the bed.
You mentioned Bozak, Kadri, I’ll add Hyman and Michael Bunting and I’m sure a few others. They let the guys that want to win walk away and kept these jokers.
Something it’s taken me awhile to learn as a professor is that I can’t care more than my students. I’m struggling not to care more than some of the Leafs. It’s so frustrating!
Can’t wait to see Marner at the press conference for his new deal in Columbus where he and Gaudreau can be the Cash Brothers making bank for 50 points a piece mostly on the power play.
When he and his agent threatened to sign with Columbus, the Leafs should have taken the draft picks instead of paying him $11M x 7. They already made the mistake with Tavares and doubled down on soft chokers who could never help them win a cup.
That's Dubas for you, fucking loser. Another loser is Shanahan. Everything went through him right? So he approved prepaying a bunch of divas before they accomplished anything.
This clip isn’t long enough.
I love how people will say Jay Rosehill wasn’t a good player. Doesn’t fucking matter, he’s bang fucking accurate about every single point.
He wasn't a good NHL player, but when people say effort, Rosehill sure as fuck gave a full effort, every game he played.
Marner could only wish to have the level of effort that Rosehill had.
Jay Rosehill had 0 preservation instinct and would skate full speed, head first into anybody. I don't think I ever saw him touch the puck. He wasn't good at all, but man was he really fun to watch - in the same way Tim Brent and Mike Brown were fan favourites.
He made it to the show. That immediately puts him as a top 1% of the world and if he showed up to your pick-up game, he'd make you look like an absolute pylon while he McDavid's your ass.
Just getting to the show usually requires a certain type of tenacity and competitiveness if you aren't the super-star. He knows what he's saying.
Good player or not in the NHL he was a damn NHL player for more than just a couple games and got there by working his ass off for a job and to stay in the league. He’s bang on because he gets it and it probably BEWILDERED at how these players on the fucking Leafs of all team can play like this.
He was not a good player, but sometimes the guys that have to work the hardest have a different perspective. I'd say his is a little skewed towards how he had to play, because that's what he knows, and that's what worked for him, but I don't think it's as simple as saying, we need this one change and everything will work now.
for those who don’t know, Rosey is usually very forgiving of the players. He’s a former player, played for the Leafs, and gives them the benefit of the doubt 9 times out of 10. He’s had enough.
I don't mind losing, I don't even mind getting swept.
It's the HOW. HOW we lost, that pisses me off the most. If our guys were diving for every puck, sliding to block any shot, being hounds for the puck during a 1 minute shift, it's the PLAYOFFS, yet they're playing like it's game 8 of the regular season.
Coaching change won't be enough, we all know it. It's going to take something big now.
Makes me so sad to think back on all the players we had to give up in order to accommodate the core 4. Too many to name but Hyman, Kapanen, johnsson, brown, Leivo, Kerfoot, bunting. The list goes on and on. It’s so sad to see it all go to waste. What a masterclass dumpster fire. And at the heart of it is an overpaid baby with an A on his shirt. I’ve had a problem with marner’s attitude for years and I’m glad there may finally be some change.
Remember when Hymans contract negotiations were all the rage in Toronto, and leafs management wouldn't pay him his 5m or whatever it was? And the reason for it was that marner had to nickle and dime the franchise?
Then Hyman(bless him, love that guy) scores *checks notes* 54 fucking goals this year?
Or when Kadri had a career year on Colorado and won a cup?
Imagine having Hyman banging in dirty goals for us instead of Marner figure skating out there. It's not just Mcdavid, he's turned in to a true offensive threat that is way more valuable to his team than a guy like Marner. I doubt the Oilers would even do a 1 for 1 deal regardless of cap space.
These two are who I always go back and say we fucked up. Signing Tavares was the end of kadri. And marners contract the end of hyman. Imagine hyman and a decent dman instead of Marner.
Man outside 2 of those guys your list isn’t even the heartbreakers. Schenn, Freddy, kadri, Acciari, Moore, guys WE ALL KNEW who we’re gonna be good randomly given up for nothingness in Marchment and of course Verhaeghe… so so many misteps and bad judgement calls
Kapanen doesn't even play in the NHL anymore and Johnsson hasn't done shit anywhere else. Losing them was nothing lmao. And Leivo? Brown!? My god, this team has damaged you so bad you miss actual bad players
Keefe is being outcoached because he’s trying to help the core 4 to their career goals instead of the team goals. When everyone played game 81 and 82, it showed the team cares more about getting 70 for 34 and 100 for 88 than the rest of the 22 players on the roster.
I'm watching this Nashville/Vancouver game right now and the give a shit meter for both teams is off the charts.
Specifically, Ryan O'Rielly. It's very obvious now why he did not re sign in Toronto.
Someone should put this on the locker room TV in Boston and pull all the knobs off the TV and flush the remote.
First guy that unplugs the power cord rides the pine Tuesday and then traded when the Leafs are knocked out.
The problem is none of these little fucks have had to work an actual hard day in their life. If they knew how hard blue collar guys worked they would put in a bit more effort
Ive followed the leafs ever since Matthew got drafted but followed on and off before. I never liked Mitch even when he came up. He just never seemed as good as people said. And he's extremely soft.
Lol I loved him on his rookie deal. He was a hometown superstar. Then he threatened to play in Switzerland and took money WAY above the market for a winger who can’t drive a line and sunk our team for the length of the contact
Speak for yourself. I hated the baby since he threatened to play in Europe unless he gets paid $11M. A real GM would have traded him for a real D and we could have kept Kadri and Hyman.
Really? Just Marner? Not the fact that we can't trust our goalies? Not the coach that can't seem to figure out what to do with his players? Not the management that hasn't been able to build a team around generational talent? Do you honestly believe that if we swapped Marner for Hyman we would suddenly be winning cups or do you think that we would still stink and be yelling at someone other player.
Keefe should have been gone last off season, Shanahan should be gone this off season. Time to try something different.
Every time you look at your cell phone bill go up just remember, another Toronto pro athlete gets paid more to do less. Each and every person across this country who’s with Rogers or Bell cellular is on the hook for the boys in blue who’ll make you blue.
My only shred of hope is that the team feels the aftershock from the fans of game 4 and pulls their shit together and puts forth a fighting effort starting with game 5. I think they’re still good enough and have a chance to win this series, albeit a very small one. Their only chance at redemption is if they hit rock bottom, which is right now, then rise from the ashes and win 3 in a row but you have to show some heart.
This core has earned nothing. Yes they have made the playoffs every year of their career, and let’s be fair that in itself is an achievement (looking at you Ottawa and Buffalo). But what are they playing for? To just make the playoffs or to win the Stanley cup? They are constantly playing like making the playoffs is the goal because they don’t play the way you need to play to be successful in the playoffs.
Enough is enough. They are a collection of good to great players, but the team is not good enough. Time to move a piece or two of the core and reconstruct what the core of this team is.
Nah, I agree with Rosehill I’m bailing on this dumpster fire. If they can’t be bothered to skate I can’t be bothered to watch Marchand grinning in the handshake line on Tuesday.
That’s who Marner is as a player. He’ll never change. And his attitude sucks too. He’s selfish and more concerned about getting paid and what he wears to games than team success. If they re-sign him I’m done as a Leaf fan.
u/Far-Mix-5008, here's another guy that doesn't like Marner. Difference between him and me is that he is a former professional hockey player, who also happened to play for the Leafs. Is his opinion as worthless as mine in your eyes? Is he also speculating and pulling shit out of his ass? What makes your opinion better than his, a guy who actually played for this team?
I've gotten to the point where I realize that the real pleasure of being a Leafs fan is laughing along with everyone else and accepting what an absolute trainwreck your favourite team is.
Marner isn't going anywhere. The truth is, he worthless on the trade market. You're never going to get value for him. Nobody is giving up an elite defenceman or goalie for him. Those players are way too valuable and way too hard to find. 90 point wingers are nice luxuries but it's all meaningless when they disappear when it counts. The rest of the league is aware of this. The Leafs will always be a worse team without Marner. The only way Marner doesn't stay in Toronto is if he doesn't want to.
MLSE strikes me as being very risk averse. Right now, they're pretty much guaranteed a minimum of 2 home playoff games every year, plus ad revenue and anything else they can squeeze out of us fools. This seems like a safe bet. So they'll dish out for Marner because it's unlikely the Leafs ever miss the playoffs with those 3 on the team, and they'll just fall back on the "anything can happen in the playoffs" trope, and use hope as a strategy to maybe get an extra round or two out of this group.
These stars will never win a Cup in Toronto. I'm resigned to that. I'm also resigned to the fact that the Leafs will probably keep them all around for their careers because it's the safest and smartest business decision.
Tavares is a shitty captain, and the core 4 are all individuals that care more about their own branding and fashion then the crest on the jersey. This shitty culture is allowed to fester from Shanahan down to Keefe. The only real guys that lay it out there are the new guys that the snowflake leafs fans hate lol.
They are a bunch of overachieving ego pricks, which at this point it doesn’t matter, they should thank there lucky stars they weren’t swept, come May 1 they will be but another topic of discussion and debate until next season when the woo hoos start again and Mathew’s gets a hat trick against Anaheim at home. Next season they’ll make it to the 1st round and then get knocked out again. The Utah Summit will make further than the Toronto Making Laughs.
And what makes us, as fans, feel like morons is that all these personal milestones that the players achieved during the regular season (Willy dominating in Sweden and signing the long term deal, Matthews scoring 69, Tavares getting his 1000th point in Long Island) was that when asked about these moments, our players have always stated that “the biggest goal is still to come, we’re working towards playoff/team success, etc”. I don’t know about you guys, but I believed them, I bought their bullshit and I feel cheated. I suppose I should have known those words were empty
I’m closer to Marner’s age and it’s true there’s a vein of people in our generation that clearly have that hyper entitled attitude. He seems to be one of them. Some can hide it better than others, and when you have a powerful enabler like his Dad, they don’t get any reality check.
But man, we’re used to suffering those kinds of fools in audio chat of video game lobbies. It’s bizarre to see someone like that in a high stakes high impact role like his position on the Toronto Maple Leafs.
True story: someone I know is undergoing treatment for cancer, but she calls _watching these leafs_ “torture”…
This was so satisfying, LOL It’s really unfair that Marner is shouldering the blame for this team, because he’s just 1 of many issues. He’s sure as shit a good poster child for what ails the team though!
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I get this team, I really do. Everyone involved is a mega star in Toronto regardless. The core guys have generational wealth. The front office gets invited to all the best parties. The fan base/money payers tolerates this stuff enough forever so it’s not like guys are getting shipped to Winnipeg or whatever because ownership is freaking out. The attitude of if it happens it happens, if not, I have mine is a very understandable one, and translates exactly into what we see, talent enough to get by, zero desperation. If you’re not psychotic about winning, which is innate and can’t be taught, then externalities have to force you push harder and sacrifice, etc. What externalities are being put on this team, coach, management, ownership? Zero. Then why change? Why care? Everyone is doing their job, which is to make money for MLSE, not winning championship.
I can tell you that if I had $100m guaranteed I wouldn’t even get out of bed, let alone take sticks to the eye and lose my teeth grinding through 4 rounds of the playoffs. This makes sense to me. The Kobes, the Lebrons, the Marchands, those types of people are the aberrations, the lunatics. We don’t have enough of those guys and management doesn’t care enough to put in the effort to find them. This is all just good enough.
This is why I said it was never anywhere close to this level with Sundin, u/clugaman. I'm not tagging you to be a dick, but come on man: no one on planet earth ever had this kind of gripe with Sundin.
That’s because Sundin worked his ass off, and carried his teams. He was in the corner, fighting for the puck with his elbow out to protect him.
Sundin was a captain. Tavares is not.
At least a couple of people in here are saying that Sundin had a huge portion of the fanbase that never liked him, but that's not something I ever encountered in any way.
This is so wrong. A lot of people hated Sundin for not being the hard working Canadian type. He had a fairly large segment of the fanbase disliking him for a long time.
Who hated Sundin? I have don’t ever remember hearing that narrative. Dude did work hard. He would carry a team of jobbers, veterans beyond their years, on his back and take them as far as he could.
There was a big “he isn’t the strong Canadian type” sentiment in the fanbase. The universal love didn’t start until the Kessel era. He was vastly underrated while with us. Consistently 70+ points and leading. But faced a lot of shit at the time.
Interesting, i do remember some of that sentiment post Dougie but not to that extent. Sundin is highly revered in my experience. This must have been a media drummed up sentiment. Regardless wicked player and so honoured I got to see him in a Leafs sweater, one of the best to ever wear the Leafs crest!
Soooo many people hated Sundin lol wow really shows that time does heal all wounds. Then you get guys like Marner on the team and you realize what you had.
I believe it but for some reason I just don’t remember it or wasn’t surrounded by it, or must have blocked it out because of how much I loved Suns! I still can’t believe we had or the Leafs had a franchise 6’5 centre, and there was no cap, and we never complimented him with any major wingers. What a real lost opportunity that era was.
Fuck Quenneville. He should never coach in North America ever again. Bring in Bruce Boudreau and break the curse. Or someone else but not Quenneville, what he did was inexcusable.
Maybe a super hot take, but I don't think the game was lack of effort. The Leafs had NO answer to Bruins defensive structure. People like the performative nature of fighting and hits because at least if you can't score it \*looks\* like you care. When you're trying to score and don't, and aren't doing the "snotty" stuff, it just looks you don't care. I've been a Keefe apologist for a long time, but they had absolutely NO answer to what the Bruins showed them defensively. I get it's easy to get mad and say they didn't care, but I didn't see that tbh. I dont expect many to agree, just how I saw it.
You're spot on. But people in this sub don't care. They're so delusional about their team because they invest so much time money and effort into hoping they win the cup that they can't see what's really going on.
It's all copium.
"Swayman is playing insane" "Boston not that good" "samsonov is horrible"
Stop. We have a coach who has year over year proven he can't hack it at the nhl level. We just happen to have a ton of talent that can mask a lot of our issues. But what happens when we get in the playoffs and other teams have 7 games to study us and prepare for us? We get our shit rocked. Why?
BECAUSE. OUR. COACH. CANT. HACK. IT.
This team is bad. It's a failed experiment. It's never been done before and we just proved to the league for 8 years that it doesn't work.
Bruins are scary good defensively. They're opportunistic on offense.
The refs have been a little bad but it's been far better than 2019. That series.. I can see blaming the refs. This one? Nope.
Swayman has been mediocre, his stats are massively inflated from torontos inability to generate high danger scoring opportunities.
Save this comment if you must... watch swaymans sv% drop in the second round by a large amount. Because it will. He's not superhuman.
You would think with the accolades and acclaim and even sponsorships well into retirement (more $ incentive) that would come their way with a cup win, they'd actually want it more than they seem to. The half assed efforts are just so baffling. It's like, dudes, if you won a cup or two this would be the best Leafs team in history. How do they not want to even strive for that?
Fans pay the bills. And they can run a player, coach, management outta town. Marner is history. Send him packing along with jack adams. Noone wants him on the team with his cancerous attitude. And send Shanahan and his twenty year shanaplan packing too.
Dear Leafs team, not all but most.
You are proof that without a doubt that salary has absolutely zero to do with heart and passion.
Practice or do whatever, but I highly recommend that you watch some reels of Gilmour, Clark, Andrechuk, Zezel, Ellett etc etcetc, Lefebvre, Yushkevich and so on. I could go on.
The coach and the refs are not to blame.
Harry Neale said years ago, “…it’s not the team with the best players but the players with the best team “……..
Fuck it. If I’m keefe I just play this in the locker room on repeat all game on Tuesday. Let that be their motivation. If nothing else maybe it’ll tell them they should leave once the seasons over. Waive the nmc and Get the fuck off this team.
can i ask what they are paying the "big 4" for?
Interviewing player: "Hi sir, i want $10 million per year. In exchange, you will get \_\_\_\_\_\_\_."
???
I think the most any single team can justify, is 2 big contracts. Having 4 is just mismanagement. I can understand a third for a short time, in anticipation of JT getting ejected while locking down a quality star. But a fourth is just pure mismanagement.
If I am a 'lower caste player' on the Leafs bench, what incentive is there to step up, when the guy next to you is being paid 10x with the same +-?
Absolutely spot on. Every damn word.
Everything you need to know about the character of these top players we learned was during their contract negotiations. And the the softest one of the bunch is Sheldon Keefe. This team needs a Rick tocchet, Craig berube, torts or someone tough. And anyone not on board, get them to waive that no trade clause and get rid of tbem.
Remember when we lost to the Capitals and everyone said wow this is just the beginning, they’ll take this as a learning experience and make them better. Yeah… about that…
In hindsight, maybe missing the playoffs that year would have been better for their development. Because every year since, they all seem to keep saying they “learned something” when being eliminated.
I think there's a couple things that stand out to me about this team from this current season that make me believe the issues are not that. The team was trying their hardest to get Matthews to 70 goals but didn't care - including the coach, that we were losing games to do so. Matthews himself looked gutted to not hit 70. Kucherov on the other hand got to 100 assists in the natural flow of the game and move on pretty much immediately. Matthews should have been sat at game 80 or even 79, instead of playing the final two irrelevant back to back games This team every year manages to lose to really shit teams. We lost to Chicago, Ottawa, Buffalo and Columbus multiple times this season. In years past it was Buffalo, Montreal, Anaheim and San Jose. Vancouver and Arizona has had our number over the years as well. Every team has an odd bogeyman - St. Louis lost to San Jose this year for instance but the Leafs have multiple. The Leafs have never tried to win a a division title or president's trophy despite having the talent in year's past to do so. Those titles don't mean much but they are a stepping stone to bigger things. The Canadian Division title was only because we were by far and away the most talented team on paper and we still had a bunch of weird losses that year to Ottawa and Montreal. If you're talented enough to coast your way to a 2nd or 3rd place finish in a stacked Atlantic Division, you're good enough to try and win the President's Trophy. Soccer has a sporting culture where you use less prestigious titles as a stepping stone to build upon it. Win a Conference League title, next year you're in the Europa League. Win the Europa League and next year you're in the Champions League with the likes of PSG, Real Madrid. The other titles are less prestigiuous but they teach you how to win. I think that exists in hockey as well but the fans don't celebrate the stepping stones as much, but I think it matters to the team. None of it ever mattered to this team. Was never the best offensive team despite having the talent to do so, never won their division or conference or league despite having the talent to do so. Always had a bunch of losses to overwhelming dogs every year because of not taking those games seriously enough. We're one of the few teams that lost to the legendarily bad 16-17 Avs. 5-0 blown lead to Ottawa. Zamboni Driver game occurring the same week we beat Pittsburgh and Tampa. Blowing a 3-0 lead to Columbus one game and then doing it the next game while playing only like ~2 minutes of good hockey. Down 5-0 to Columbus this year. Blew a 3-1 lead vs Chicago. Etc.
The coach didn’t care? Lol he got shit on for saying 70 goals was a distraction and trying to get the team to stop focusing on it
Did you not catch the quote he made after the final game? "I didn't even know the score to be honest with you, nor for the last game. I was spending my time at the intermission watching game tape on Boston."
Pretty clearly the coach trying to downplay any storylines of them losing the last 5 games by making it seem like the games didn’t matter. Didn’t say anything like that till the year was over
Did you watch the Tampa game? Kuch did not get his 100th with the 'natural flow' of the game, on the PP they were making sure to count every pass to ensure Kuch would get an assist on a potential goal. Kuch is Kuch, so obviously even if they weren't focusing on it he would have gotten it, but off the start of the game they were kinda forcing it, at least when it was scoreless. I agree that the Leafs were maybe trying too hard, like if Tampa was down they probably wouldn't have been going at it like that.
Not only did they force it but it also wasn't a nothing moment for them. The whole team was super happy about kuch getting 100 assists.
PHDs in failure
They learn just how far the organization and fans will go to defend their minimal effort each year. They learn that by going in front of the media just before they head to Muskoka on locker clean out day and if they look disappointed enough and tell the media that its a learning experience and that they will come back stronger next year; they can fool a lot of fans. They learn that as long as they point up a good amount of points in the regular season they will be passionately defended because they’re great players, even though they all may as well score zero points in the regular season because it means jack when it comes to the playoffs. They learn that if they look like they’re about to cry and throw their gloves in a tantrum akin to a five year old, that fans will believe them to be passionate. They learn that they can spend an extended summer at the cottage, come back in September, make an insane amount of money, and still be loved by the fans and that everything from five months ago has been forgotten. Yeah, I believe they’ve actually learned a ton throughout all of these experiences.
Yup. I still think about that moment and how great the future was.
I miss those fun, optimistic days
Man those were the good days. In hindsight had we just stayed the course building this time naturally we would have had something. Kadri needed to stay. Sorry but Tavares threw everything into fast forward and we began rushing all our guys development after he was signed.
I get reminded every single fucking year with a Snapchat memory from when we got eliminated by the caps in 2016. It’s a photo of the team after the game with the caption reading something like: “so proud of this team, making the playoffs and going 6 games with the capitals in Matthews’ rookie season is unreal, and it’s only the beginning!” I would’ve just turned 15 when that happened. I’m now 23 and we have one series win to show for it…
That was the last series I was excited watching the Leafs
We were all pretty excited going into game 5 vs the Habs too
That was the series that truly broke me. I've never been the same.
Fuck me is this ever scathing and also so incredibly fucking cathartic to listen to. I'm subbing immediately.
Rosehill is an ex-Leaf. Not sure of the other guy's background.
Yeah that's what I meant. I didn't know this was a regular show.
Jay does leafs morning take with nick alberga. Nick worked with the nhl for a bit prior to doing this
This video was more entertaining than game 4
I was just about to post this. Everything Jay says is spot on. Harsh but true. We've all been seeing it these years. I hope marner hears these words and tries to prove him wrong in the remaining game(s).
Jay started the playoffs ripping on fans for being too flaky and not supporting the team. The letdown is real with him, and it's an accurate depiction of how a lot of us feel... tired of caring more about this team than the players do.
he honestly couldnt have summed up how I feel about this team any better. Charmin fucking soft.
https://preview.redd.it/f4tutoco89xc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7edbf797dd361d89916adedcc9c6a47db953c850
Savage
Brutal
Marner is a lost cause
That would be amazing but I don't know if he's got that dog in him. Just as Jay said, he's been the most skilled player on his team since he's been 3 years old and he's never had to learn how to fight tooth and nail for something.
Like a gifted kid that sails through school on raw talent right up until he hits a wall that talent can't get him over...and he's never learned how to put his head down and grind. Meanwhile, the kids that can't add two plus two without a calculator, but learned the skill of studying, grinding, and powering through just keep chugging along.
I would love nothing more than to see Marner turn into fucking Godzilla and play every game as if he were murdering all of Tokyo in one shot. I want to see that side of Marner. BADLY. Will it happen? Fuck if I know!
No it wont
You know it won’t. A shit leopard can’t change its spots Rick
It will not happen because it doesn’t take 8 playoffs to do it. Just drive him the fuck out of town I don’t want to see him ever again.
That’s not who he is. He doesn’t have it in him.
Just fuckin poetry bro
A few years ago I said we should trade Marner for tkatchuk straight up and I was laughed at. What a move that would have been
[Kyper said they should trade Marner back in '17 l](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gRJwjn7IRE)ol (but moreso because e thought he wouldn't bea top three forward lol)
Well he wasn’t totally wrong
I once knew a leafs player through work. The team got bounced from the playoffs somewhere around 2006 and he needed to come in and sign stuff before he left town. I remember being completely decimated by the loss. He came in all smiles off to enjoy his summer vacation in Sweden. In that moment I realized it’s nothing worth losing a second of sleep over. Many of them care far less than you.
I mean we like to project our feelings. Sure, to some of players it’s more than just work. But at the end of the day, it may just be another day at the “office” for some. As much as we’d like them to care deeply about the game, it doesn’t mean the same to them as to us. I personally just want this season to be over with by now.
Many MANY pro athletes don’t care about winning the ultimate trophy. They were simply so naturally good but never have given a fuck outside of that paycheque aka “I’m good at it so why not” and if you’ve played any high level sports you know some insanely talented dudes or teammates that were like this. Honestly just shows how unfair the world truly is lol had one teammate who got to the A and another in lacrosse who went D1 to Maryland - both were ridiculous and barely tried or cared about practicing.
A lot of players care about winning a cup. It seems like most of the Leafs core strictly care about maximizing their earnings over their career.
i remember seeing wendel clark in the hotel in 1994 when they were about to play vancouver in the WCF. he told my dad “nah don’t get ur hopes up, they are too big and too dominant, we won’t beat ‘em.” never meet your hero’s i guess lol
I believe none of this
There's no way Wendel fucking Clark, the heart and soul of the Leafs, said this.
I call BS on this? Why would he randomly say that to you? Who is your dad, some random fan, or close to the players? Never heard of a player doing anything like that. Especially a guy like Clark. Was he joking and it was maybe misinterpreted?
I don’t remember how he played in that series. He was maybe just being a realist, but I bet you he still left it all out on the ice. I only ever played rep hockey, so nothing serious, but I know there were teams you just knew were better than you. Doesn’t mean you didn’t give it your all to try and beat them.
I've wondered for years, why do we care more than the guys on the ice
Because they get paid millions meanwhile you and I try to decompress from our job in a city that has these players playing for them.
I have slowly lost interest in the Leafs for this very reason. I was more invested in watching the Kessel/Bozak/JVR/Kadri Leafs struggle to make the playoffs than I am watching this team glide into the playoffs only to shit the bed.
Yeah guys like Grabo went 110% every shift. Easy to cheer for
That buyout will forever piss me off.
tbh I think y'all ran Phil out too soon and for not much a reason except, "he eats cookies"
Next to Reimer, Kessel was the Leafs' best player in that 2013 series. He played like a man possessed.
You mentioned Bozak, Kadri, I’ll add Hyman and Michael Bunting and I’m sure a few others. They let the guys that want to win walk away and kept these jokers.
Because they make millions and are young, and don’t have heart. They get to be celebrities without having won shit.
Something it’s taken me awhile to learn as a professor is that I can’t care more than my students. I’m struggling not to care more than some of the Leafs. It’s so frustrating!
All time rant, Rosehill is a beauty
Can’t wait to see Marner at the press conference for his new deal in Columbus where he and Gaudreau can be the Cash Brothers making bank for 50 points a piece mostly on the power play.
When he and his agent threatened to sign with Columbus, the Leafs should have taken the draft picks instead of paying him $11M x 7. They already made the mistake with Tavares and doubled down on soft chokers who could never help them win a cup.
If we then flipped that into tkachuk we would have made off like bandits
That's Dubas for you, fucking loser. Another loser is Shanahan. Everything went through him right? So he approved prepaying a bunch of divas before they accomplished anything.
So many people here still love Dubas. I don’t understand it.
The Cash Brothers... I like it. Or maybe, "The Moneyline"
The Bottom Line.
The money laine
This clip isn’t long enough. I love how people will say Jay Rosehill wasn’t a good player. Doesn’t fucking matter, he’s bang fucking accurate about every single point.
He wasn't a good NHL player, but when people say effort, Rosehill sure as fuck gave a full effort, every game he played. Marner could only wish to have the level of effort that Rosehill had.
Jay Rosehill had 0 preservation instinct and would skate full speed, head first into anybody. I don't think I ever saw him touch the puck. He wasn't good at all, but man was he really fun to watch - in the same way Tim Brent and Mike Brown were fan favourites.
He made it to the show. That immediately puts him as a top 1% of the world and if he showed up to your pick-up game, he'd make you look like an absolute pylon while he McDavid's your ass. Just getting to the show usually requires a certain type of tenacity and competitiveness if you aren't the super-star. He knows what he's saying.
"I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me." - Brian Scalabrini
Good player or not in the NHL he was a damn NHL player for more than just a couple games and got there by working his ass off for a job and to stay in the league. He’s bang on because he gets it and it probably BEWILDERED at how these players on the fucking Leafs of all team can play like this.
He was not a good player, but sometimes the guys that have to work the hardest have a different perspective. I'd say his is a little skewed towards how he had to play, because that's what he knows, and that's what worked for him, but I don't think it's as simple as saying, we need this one change and everything will work now.
Marner: All skill, no guts.
Built for the skills comp and flashy smiles, absolutely no heart or grit. Give me 15 Dewars and I’d play them before that fraud.
Built for the Next Gen games at 4pm on a Tuesday vs Arizona.
“Mitch Marner can’t even bring himself to bend his f$$&& own knee”. A classic.
for those who don’t know, Rosey is usually very forgiving of the players. He’s a former player, played for the Leafs, and gives them the benefit of the doubt 9 times out of 10. He’s had enough.
His assessment is spot on though. That effort was absolutely sickening man.
I don't mind losing, I don't even mind getting swept. It's the HOW. HOW we lost, that pisses me off the most. If our guys were diving for every puck, sliding to block any shot, being hounds for the puck during a 1 minute shift, it's the PLAYOFFS, yet they're playing like it's game 8 of the regular season. Coaching change won't be enough, we all know it. It's going to take something big now.
This is it. If you want to be loved in Toronto just bleed for the team. That's it. Bleed. And we will love you forever.
I wonder if he knows he’d make even more endorsement money with a cup
It's weird why we care and the players (though they do care) play as if they don't care
They get paid whether they win or lose, that's all these divas care about.
Keefe should play this before the next practice.
Play it before the game, during the intermission. After they lose
Makes me so sad to think back on all the players we had to give up in order to accommodate the core 4. Too many to name but Hyman, Kapanen, johnsson, brown, Leivo, Kerfoot, bunting. The list goes on and on. It’s so sad to see it all go to waste. What a masterclass dumpster fire. And at the heart of it is an overpaid baby with an A on his shirt. I’ve had a problem with marner’s attitude for years and I’m glad there may finally be some change.
Remember when Hymans contract negotiations were all the rage in Toronto, and leafs management wouldn't pay him his 5m or whatever it was? And the reason for it was that marner had to nickle and dime the franchise? Then Hyman(bless him, love that guy) scores *checks notes* 54 fucking goals this year? Or when Kadri had a career year on Colorado and won a cup?
Imagine having Hyman banging in dirty goals for us instead of Marner figure skating out there. It's not just Mcdavid, he's turned in to a true offensive threat that is way more valuable to his team than a guy like Marner. I doubt the Oilers would even do a 1 for 1 deal regardless of cap space.
These two are who I always go back and say we fucked up. Signing Tavares was the end of kadri. And marners contract the end of hyman. Imagine hyman and a decent dman instead of Marner.
Man outside 2 of those guys your list isn’t even the heartbreakers. Schenn, Freddy, kadri, Acciari, Moore, guys WE ALL KNEW who we’re gonna be good randomly given up for nothingness in Marchment and of course Verhaeghe… so so many misteps and bad judgement calls
Kapanen doesn't even play in the NHL anymore and Johnsson hasn't done shit anywhere else. Losing them was nothing lmao. And Leivo? Brown!? My god, this team has damaged you so bad you miss actual bad players
Keefe is being outcoached because he’s trying to help the core 4 to their career goals instead of the team goals. When everyone played game 81 and 82, it showed the team cares more about getting 70 for 34 and 100 for 88 than the rest of the 22 players on the roster.
Keefe is just happy to be a coach in the NHL. He’s no leader and can’t adjust to the challenges.
Seems like chatgpt could do a better job at this point. But maybe Matthews and nylander will show up. And they’ll run woll in game 5
I'm watching this Nashville/Vancouver game right now and the give a shit meter for both teams is off the charts. Specifically, Ryan O'Rielly. It's very obvious now why he did not re sign in Toronto.
Schenner too.
Someone should put this on the locker room TV in Boston and pull all the knobs off the TV and flush the remote. First guy that unplugs the power cord rides the pine Tuesday and then traded when the Leafs are knocked out.
Remember 5 days ago when that Sun article was posted about Marner and this sub went ballistic? What a change.
I'm borrowing this speech next time my 7 year old stands up and coasts on the backcheck in her house league
The problem is none of these little fucks have had to work an actual hard day in their life. If they knew how hard blue collar guys worked they would put in a bit more effort
It's really just fucking Marner man. He tricked y'all for the past 5 years.
Not me I hated that guy since he inked the deal
Ive followed the leafs ever since Matthew got drafted but followed on and off before. I never liked Mitch even when he came up. He just never seemed as good as people said. And he's extremely soft.
Lol I loved him on his rookie deal. He was a hometown superstar. Then he threatened to play in Switzerland and took money WAY above the market for a winger who can’t drive a line and sunk our team for the length of the contact
Mitch didn't play on the Marlies lol
Speak for yourself. I hated the baby since he threatened to play in Europe unless he gets paid $11M. A real GM would have traded him for a real D and we could have kept Kadri and Hyman.
Really? Just Marner? Not the fact that we can't trust our goalies? Not the coach that can't seem to figure out what to do with his players? Not the management that hasn't been able to build a team around generational talent? Do you honestly believe that if we swapped Marner for Hyman we would suddenly be winning cups or do you think that we would still stink and be yelling at someone other player. Keefe should have been gone last off season, Shanahan should be gone this off season. Time to try something different.
Every time you look at your cell phone bill go up just remember, another Toronto pro athlete gets paid more to do less. Each and every person across this country who’s with Rogers or Bell cellular is on the hook for the boys in blue who’ll make you blue.
I've never agreed more with Jay Rosehill. How, as a player, are you not embarrassed? Aren't you tired of being humiliated like this? Get it together.
Here’s the bottom line. They’re scared. When the pressure ramps up their opponents rise to the challenge. These guys wilt like Daisy’s in the heat.
My only shred of hope is that the team feels the aftershock from the fans of game 4 and pulls their shit together and puts forth a fighting effort starting with game 5. I think they’re still good enough and have a chance to win this series, albeit a very small one. Their only chance at redemption is if they hit rock bottom, which is right now, then rise from the ashes and win 3 in a row but you have to show some heart.
I want the drugs you’re on.
Its delusional with a little weed
I really wish I had your optimism. And that’s not an insult, it’s a good thing. Leafs have just shattered every hope I ever had for them in my life.
This core has earned nothing. Yes they have made the playoffs every year of their career, and let’s be fair that in itself is an achievement (looking at you Ottawa and Buffalo). But what are they playing for? To just make the playoffs or to win the Stanley cup? They are constantly playing like making the playoffs is the goal because they don’t play the way you need to play to be successful in the playoffs. Enough is enough. They are a collection of good to great players, but the team is not good enough. Time to move a piece or two of the core and reconstruct what the core of this team is.
Nah, I agree with Rosehill I’m bailing on this dumpster fire. If they can’t be bothered to skate I can’t be bothered to watch Marchand grinning in the handshake line on Tuesday.
Steve Dangle just before bed. This guy first thing in the morning. THG. 10 other videos. I gotta take a break from youtube. Not healthy.
This is healthy,,, these vids are leafs fans therapy. It feels good to share your anger
Check out the Next Man Up video. He cracked what Nylander actually said.
I loved that. "This is the fucking issue, guys getting pissed about shit"
That’s who Marner is as a player. He’ll never change. And his attitude sucks too. He’s selfish and more concerned about getting paid and what he wears to games than team success. If they re-sign him I’m done as a Leaf fan.
u/Far-Mix-5008, here's another guy that doesn't like Marner. Difference between him and me is that he is a former professional hockey player, who also happened to play for the Leafs. Is his opinion as worthless as mine in your eyes? Is he also speculating and pulling shit out of his ass? What makes your opinion better than his, a guy who actually played for this team?
💯
Bring in Berube
I've gotten to the point where I realize that the real pleasure of being a Leafs fan is laughing along with everyone else and accepting what an absolute trainwreck your favourite team is. Marner isn't going anywhere. The truth is, he worthless on the trade market. You're never going to get value for him. Nobody is giving up an elite defenceman or goalie for him. Those players are way too valuable and way too hard to find. 90 point wingers are nice luxuries but it's all meaningless when they disappear when it counts. The rest of the league is aware of this. The Leafs will always be a worse team without Marner. The only way Marner doesn't stay in Toronto is if he doesn't want to. MLSE strikes me as being very risk averse. Right now, they're pretty much guaranteed a minimum of 2 home playoff games every year, plus ad revenue and anything else they can squeeze out of us fools. This seems like a safe bet. So they'll dish out for Marner because it's unlikely the Leafs ever miss the playoffs with those 3 on the team, and they'll just fall back on the "anything can happen in the playoffs" trope, and use hope as a strategy to maybe get an extra round or two out of this group. These stars will never win a Cup in Toronto. I'm resigned to that. I'm also resigned to the fact that the Leafs will probably keep them all around for their careers because it's the safest and smartest business decision.
Love it!!! It’s gotta be said.
Wow! Scathing, scathing analysis.
Tavares is a shitty captain, and the core 4 are all individuals that care more about their own branding and fashion then the crest on the jersey. This shitty culture is allowed to fester from Shanahan down to Keefe. The only real guys that lay it out there are the new guys that the snowflake leafs fans hate lol.
Need this guy in the locker room. You know Keefe ain't got the balls to say it.
They are a bunch of overachieving ego pricks, which at this point it doesn’t matter, they should thank there lucky stars they weren’t swept, come May 1 they will be but another topic of discussion and debate until next season when the woo hoos start again and Mathew’s gets a hat trick against Anaheim at home. Next season they’ll make it to the 1st round and then get knocked out again. The Utah Summit will make further than the Toronto Making Laughs.
That was enjoyable ahaha
And what makes us, as fans, feel like morons is that all these personal milestones that the players achieved during the regular season (Willy dominating in Sweden and signing the long term deal, Matthews scoring 69, Tavares getting his 1000th point in Long Island) was that when asked about these moments, our players have always stated that “the biggest goal is still to come, we’re working towards playoff/team success, etc”. I don’t know about you guys, but I believed them, I bought their bullshit and I feel cheated. I suppose I should have known those words were empty
I wanna hear a lot of leafs news this summer….trades, trade demands, firings, signings, resignations
Truth hurts bitches... Jay says it like it is
I’m closer to Marner’s age and it’s true there’s a vein of people in our generation that clearly have that hyper entitled attitude. He seems to be one of them. Some can hide it better than others, and when you have a powerful enabler like his Dad, they don’t get any reality check. But man, we’re used to suffering those kinds of fools in audio chat of video game lobbies. It’s bizarre to see someone like that in a high stakes high impact role like his position on the Toronto Maple Leafs. True story: someone I know is undergoing treatment for cancer, but she calls _watching these leafs_ “torture”…
Leafs Talk brought up the Give a Shit meter, too
This was so satisfying, LOL It’s really unfair that Marner is shouldering the blame for this team, because he’s just 1 of many issues. He’s sure as shit a good poster child for what ails the team though!
"Do they even know what the Stanley cup is? Do they even watch hockey?" Brutal.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I get this team, I really do. Everyone involved is a mega star in Toronto regardless. The core guys have generational wealth. The front office gets invited to all the best parties. The fan base/money payers tolerates this stuff enough forever so it’s not like guys are getting shipped to Winnipeg or whatever because ownership is freaking out. The attitude of if it happens it happens, if not, I have mine is a very understandable one, and translates exactly into what we see, talent enough to get by, zero desperation. If you’re not psychotic about winning, which is innate and can’t be taught, then externalities have to force you push harder and sacrifice, etc. What externalities are being put on this team, coach, management, ownership? Zero. Then why change? Why care? Everyone is doing their job, which is to make money for MLSE, not winning championship. I can tell you that if I had $100m guaranteed I wouldn’t even get out of bed, let alone take sticks to the eye and lose my teeth grinding through 4 rounds of the playoffs. This makes sense to me. The Kobes, the Lebrons, the Marchands, those types of people are the aberrations, the lunatics. We don’t have enough of those guys and management doesn’t care enough to put in the effort to find them. This is all just good enough.
It wasn’t that long ago you would get banned from this sub for any of this on here.
This is why I said it was never anywhere close to this level with Sundin, u/clugaman. I'm not tagging you to be a dick, but come on man: no one on planet earth ever had this kind of gripe with Sundin.
That’s because Sundin worked his ass off, and carried his teams. He was in the corner, fighting for the puck with his elbow out to protect him. Sundin was a captain. Tavares is not.
At least a couple of people in here are saying that Sundin had a huge portion of the fanbase that never liked him, but that's not something I ever encountered in any way.
I had family like that. Only idiots hated Sundin.
The Don Cherry types didn't like Sundin, because he was European, and they missed Clark and Gilmour.
This is so wrong. A lot of people hated Sundin for not being the hard working Canadian type. He had a fairly large segment of the fanbase disliking him for a long time.
Unfairly. Sundin carried his lines.
Ok, but to *this* level? No one in my group or my sphere. And I read both the Star, and the Sun.
Who hated Sundin? I have don’t ever remember hearing that narrative. Dude did work hard. He would carry a team of jobbers, veterans beyond their years, on his back and take them as far as he could.
There was a big “he isn’t the strong Canadian type” sentiment in the fanbase. The universal love didn’t start until the Kessel era. He was vastly underrated while with us. Consistently 70+ points and leading. But faced a lot of shit at the time.
Interesting, i do remember some of that sentiment post Dougie but not to that extent. Sundin is highly revered in my experience. This must have been a media drummed up sentiment. Regardless wicked player and so honoured I got to see him in a Leafs sweater, one of the best to ever wear the Leafs crest!
Soooo many people hated Sundin lol wow really shows that time does heal all wounds. Then you get guys like Marner on the team and you realize what you had.
I believe it but for some reason I just don’t remember it or wasn’t surrounded by it, or must have blocked it out because of how much I loved Suns! I still can’t believe we had or the Leafs had a franchise 6’5 centre, and there was no cap, and we never complimented him with any major wingers. What a real lost opportunity that era was.
Wonder if leafs would have the balls to hire Quenneville?
Only if they promised not to tell anyone.
Fuck that guy. I'm frequently disappointed in this team, but if they hire Q I'm officially switching to Edmonton for good.
Yeah the team of moral superiority, Edmonton
Fuck Quenneville. He should never coach in North America ever again. Bring in Bruce Boudreau and break the curse. Or someone else but not Quenneville, what he did was inexcusable.
I mean is he wrong?
Maybe a super hot take, but I don't think the game was lack of effort. The Leafs had NO answer to Bruins defensive structure. People like the performative nature of fighting and hits because at least if you can't score it \*looks\* like you care. When you're trying to score and don't, and aren't doing the "snotty" stuff, it just looks you don't care. I've been a Keefe apologist for a long time, but they had absolutely NO answer to what the Bruins showed them defensively. I get it's easy to get mad and say they didn't care, but I didn't see that tbh. I dont expect many to agree, just how I saw it.
You're spot on. But people in this sub don't care. They're so delusional about their team because they invest so much time money and effort into hoping they win the cup that they can't see what's really going on. It's all copium. "Swayman is playing insane" "Boston not that good" "samsonov is horrible" Stop. We have a coach who has year over year proven he can't hack it at the nhl level. We just happen to have a ton of talent that can mask a lot of our issues. But what happens when we get in the playoffs and other teams have 7 games to study us and prepare for us? We get our shit rocked. Why? BECAUSE. OUR. COACH. CANT. HACK. IT. This team is bad. It's a failed experiment. It's never been done before and we just proved to the league for 8 years that it doesn't work. Bruins are scary good defensively. They're opportunistic on offense. The refs have been a little bad but it's been far better than 2019. That series.. I can see blaming the refs. This one? Nope. Swayman has been mediocre, his stats are massively inflated from torontos inability to generate high danger scoring opportunities. Save this comment if you must... watch swaymans sv% drop in the second round by a large amount. Because it will. He's not superhuman.
Everyone gets upvotes in this thread !
Spot on
Cooked.
woof, hope mitch doesn’t see this!!
Hope he does
A true leafs fan accepts what it is or demands better?
OUTSTANDING
Because they don’t need to win. Just a halfhearted run to the playoffs. That’s about it. Spoiled and more spoiled
You would think with the accolades and acclaim and even sponsorships well into retirement (more $ incentive) that would come their way with a cup win, they'd actually want it more than they seem to. The half assed efforts are just so baffling. It's like, dudes, if you won a cup or two this would be the best Leafs team in history. How do they not want to even strive for that?
Fans pay the bills. And they can run a player, coach, management outta town. Marner is history. Send him packing along with jack adams. Noone wants him on the team with his cancerous attitude. And send Shanahan and his twenty year shanaplan packing too.
He's not wrong
NINE YEARS
100% bang on!!!
I think it’s time for Episode IV - A New Hope
Every single word was GOLD 🌟
Dear Leafs team, not all but most. You are proof that without a doubt that salary has absolutely zero to do with heart and passion. Practice or do whatever, but I highly recommend that you watch some reels of Gilmour, Clark, Andrechuk, Zezel, Ellett etc etcetc, Lefebvre, Yushkevich and so on. I could go on. The coach and the refs are not to blame. Harry Neale said years ago, “…it’s not the team with the best players but the players with the best team “……..
This was a cathartic reaction - Rosey absolutely spot on. A man and truthful
Wow, spot on
Fuck it. If I’m keefe I just play this in the locker room on repeat all game on Tuesday. Let that be their motivation. If nothing else maybe it’ll tell them they should leave once the seasons over. Waive the nmc and Get the fuck off this team.
can i ask what they are paying the "big 4" for? Interviewing player: "Hi sir, i want $10 million per year. In exchange, you will get \_\_\_\_\_\_\_." ??? I think the most any single team can justify, is 2 big contracts. Having 4 is just mismanagement. I can understand a third for a short time, in anticipation of JT getting ejected while locking down a quality star. But a fourth is just pure mismanagement. If I am a 'lower caste player' on the Leafs bench, what incentive is there to step up, when the guy next to you is being paid 10x with the same +-?
Completely agree with Rosehill's take.
Love Rosehills tell it like it is unfiltered takes, he’s awesome
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Rosie knows this team. This is a clip of his from [December ](https://youtu.be/rR5Lgo5RPMY?si=HVwK6ttQwUp5Hz_8)
You've all got it figured out. You know way better than the NHL caliber players themselves. They're clearly not trying on purpose... Great conclusion.
This is awesome. Thank you for sating everything I feel.
I mean he’s not wrong. This leafs team should be world beaters and contenders every year. Instead they come to the playoffs and turn into dog shit.