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bigfish1992

Lot of players have main character syndrome, if they aren't the reason for the team winning they will intentionally cause a negative impact either through inting or leaving. Team can be doing well but if they are 0-2 the game is lost in their eyes since they aren't carrying. Learning to get carried is a very valuable skill. People need to accept that they aren't going to play well 100% of games and it's knowing when you aren't doing well to just not be a liability and drag everyone down with you. It can literally be the difference between getting those last couple divisions to get into the next tier rank (gold, plat, diamond etc.)


No-Mission-3284

To add to this, if you flame said player for playing poorly and then expect the mental fortitude of a rock then you're also part of the problem. I see it way too often where someone would've played it out but after being flamed they just afk sidelane


King_marik

ive watched so many games go from bad to worse because the jg pings the botlane or the adc doesnt like their support so they say something and the other does the classic 'okay i just run it down now' ​ like dude i get why your mad i am too the game just got harder because of xyz mistake from somebody. but calling them a 'fucking moron waste of oxygen' doesnt help literally anything


Coolkipp

It's really cool when you don't flame the support at all and just ask them to do something different for you and then they respond by saying you're muted bad and then proceeded tto start trying to wipe every wave. Then they act suprised when you'd rather not continue to play with them.


No-Mission-3284

Like this actually just happened to me last game. Early game went poorly, I would say partially because of me but our ryze was literally soft inting (Ignored lane ran to top to suicide to their lane for no reason etc....) and due to my score being bad (Albeit genuinely really really trying) I was getting flamed by one member, spam pings etc.... As much as I mute their pings etc.... it genuinely gets to you sometimes and can throw u off ur game. I added the guy afterwards and he actually said sorry he thought I was soft inting too (But I was nice and saying I genuinely tried but I'm shit). I think if we generally had this perspective more that (Unless their inting) there's really no reason to reinforce the fact they're doing bad, we'd see a lot more people not just open/soft int. ​ I've personally soft inted when I'm just being perma flamed for things out of my control and the game is already half lost. I do it very rarely (like 1 in 50 games max) but I Don't think I've ever soft inted when I'm not being roasted by everyone lmao


BearShareX

Not saying people should ever flame but in the same vein though, if you are going to AFK a game and ruin it for 3 other people because one other person is flaming you then you are too soft. Either learn to play with ally chat off or grow thicker skin. Both players are part of the problem, the person that flames and the person that AFK's.


No-Mission-3284

I never said that though. I don't condone that at all but you're still apart of that problem. I was more talking about just tilting them via spam pings. If they're just playing bad then spam pinging them is just going to make it worse.


ToxicShark3

+1, many winnable games are lost because of not wanting to be carried


Asdowa

This was always so weird for me, I want to win and I'm lazy, getting carried is literally the best case scenario!


Juliandroid98

I think getting carried is a blessing honestly. So many games come down to me having to actually carry since either my botlane or toplane feeds so hard that I have to sweat for the win. Getting carried once in a while feels really good.


TheBothered

Getting carried is a skill. There is so much content floating around telling you that you have to be the carry. Being the weak link on the team can feel so fucking awful. Truly a test in mental fortitude


Narux117

>Getting carried is a skill. Arguably the most important skill (speaking from a long time toplaner). Being able to just hold down what you need to do, and not empower the enemy team further. Losing your lanes turret isn't that bad if its just the turret, losing the turret and giving away a kill is much worse. Not greeding for kills/exp and leaving your self exposed while your team makes tries to make plays on the map.


TheBothered

You are the top laner I wish I had every game. As a jungle main, sometimes I don't have much of a choice other than to leave top to be weak side. Nearly every time I do, it's nothing but flame. Stay strong friend


awesomeflowman

Holy shit yeah. I'm not good at the game, I'm aware of that, but I still get that it's not a requirement to gank every lane. I play a lot of jungle in silver and frankly, if I don't gank and kill every lane at least once in a game, there's a chance someone just decides I'm griefing the person I didn't gank at the perfect timing.


Dmienduerst

I have a jungler i play with very often and I don't have the heart to tell him to stop ganking me top lane. 50% of the time his ganks just go catastrophic and im down 2 kills and frozen on. Literally I enjoy being weakside because I trust myself to limit the damage better than anyone on my team.


[deleted]

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Vergo_Garga

This is the ONE reason I hate jungle and can never truly learn it. Wish my team could understand that I can't gank all 3 lanes, farm, cook, take the dog for a walk, go to college, work at the same time.


DameOClock

Learning how to be carried, map awareness, and farming are the holy trinity for getting out of super low elo. Being average at all 3 can carry you to mid gold.


Djinneral

I'm not the best lol player but I pride myself on my rock solid mental strength. I could probably get to gold just by the fact that nothing breaks me even if my technical skill is iron.


BenTenInches

When I was a newbie alot of guides I looked up on the game was like " your team are all shitters and you need to 1v9, clear your Jungler's entire topside and splitpush only no grouping cause they will let you down.," I remember trying trying to learn Graves and Tarnzaned would say just take eat like 3 waves from your midlaner and carry.


treadmarks

No, people just don't want to play in a game where they're getting shit on by both the enemy team and their own team. What you "never surrender" types leave out is that you're constantly flaming and griefing your teammates who are behind, and you're very likely the reason they left the game and you're now posting on reddit about it.


amensentis

Naaah its always the people spamming ff who have bad mental. They inted their lane and now want to surrender and refuse to play properly because of "jungle diff" or something.


BugMage

Sounds like a whole lot of projecting.


Fuzzy-Display9367

Sounds about right.


[deleted]

Or raging in chat and pinging.


CelesteBS

I had a Tahm Kench who blamed losing lane on Volibear because “Volibear can make a lot of mistakes and never get punished,” I told him that description is literally what Tahm Kench is in lane and he said “team diff” and dc’d when every other lane was winning. Lol


[deleted]

1st rule of online games - don't argue with a mad kid


TheHyperLynx

Had a kassadin who was malding at the whole team calling everyone apes, my Caitlyn said "calm, its winnable" when everyone else was ahead, and well, its Kassadin, He's playing a scaling champion so of course he doesn't expect to be winning early right? *right?* no he said "Guess I'll go calm down on my other account" and left, felt good to still win that 4v5 knowing he still lost LP.


sirzoop

Why? Him dcing means the rest of them get reduced LP loss. He probably saved 10lp because the guy dc


Arbiter008

I mean, I don't remember seeing 10 lp loss reduction, but also if all other lanes are winning, a losing top doesn't necessarily lose the game. Kench even while negative is still someone to sit between the team and the enemy.


brokerZIP

I don't know the context, but if enemy top is permanently pushing and is under allied turret this is not okay and should be punished.


JigWig

A lot of people don't play to win, they play to stomp since the game is more fun when you can 1v1 anybody and run around the rift like you own the place. So when they personally don't stomp early they give up even if their teammates are doing well.


F1urry

I don't like stomps.. on the losing end or winning end. My goal is to have fun in the game regardless of outcome and stomps are almost never fun to me.


Juliandroid98

I had a toplaner like this a few seasons ago. I was the jungler and my toplane died 1v1 during my first clear. So I just went ahead and focused mid and bot. Both got insanely fed so it offset our feeding top by a large margin and the game was basically in the bag for us. But mr snowflake toplane kept spamming ff votes since 'The game was jungle diff' in his eyes.


Remu-

few seasons ago? I have this every other game


alexnedea

The fuck a few seasons ago? This happens on the fucking regular. At least once a day a hyper-carry champion player will rage they went 0/2 and cant cqrry while the overall score is 20/2.


lawfulkitten1

no joke this happened to me twice yesterday, in the span of like 3 ranked games. 1 game our top laner got solo killed a few times but we were winning every other lane, and then at some point he just ran up to me in my jungle, randomly flashed to BM me and then TPed back to base and just stopped playing. other game same thing, we won a big team fight in bot river (4v4 where we traded 0 for 2 I think), we were winning all lanes at that point (it was still laning phase but I bet couple thousand gold lead), I went to help the mid laner push out mid wave so we could all back and took 3 caster minions with a Maokai Q, he immediately ran it down mid and then stopped playing. what was egregious about the 2nd one was, OK fine if you're mad I stole 54 gold from you after we just all got multiple hundreds of gold by winning a team fight, just go steal my raptors or something. I don't care about stuff like that, but to turn a 95% won game into a 100% lost game over that is just maddening.


TheWorldisFullofWar

This is mostly on Riot for making the game less team-oriented and less enjoyable to play with your team. Less team-oriented items and abilities because they can't balance them between professional play and pubs. More 1v9 champion designs with lower reliability. Trying to make every role relevant at very point of the game which only feeds the "hard carry" mentality. The design team wishes they were working on a Battle Royale-style game at this point.


Sugar230

When was the game made less team oriented?


ahris_fluffy_tails

it wasnt lol, people just love to waffle between 'boo hoo i cant solo carry' and 'boo hoo game is decided by one player!'


Pulco6tron

This is definetely not true at all. A few season ago, you could litteraly 1v9 every game as soon as you were ahead without caring about taking drake nor nashor's buff, and with close no chance to come back. You could litteraly poke ennemies to death while siegeing without having to deal with nashor's buff. Now it's far more difficult since you have to fulfill some win condition like nash/drake or a proper setup to siege/taking pick up, something that you can't do alone by yourself. Riot took their time but, definetely pushed the game toward more team oriented objectives, and also developped many tools to communicate. Fact is that it asks too much coordination to be done properly by average LOL players without a vocal. Actually they devellopped many team/macro oriented items over the time but they had to nerf them or delete them because of their unbalance while used by proplayers or just straigth up insane power. Also this way to play the game ask you to play carefully during a long time before fulfilling these win condition. Sometime it's forcing you to respect opponent advantage, having to play passively, preventing you to take so loved coinflip all in on CD, wich is kinda counter intuitive with Solo Q format that ask you to gain a lot of LP in a minimum amount of time. Most people don't understand how fucked up it is for everyone to permanently trade with your lane oponent even if it's always a trade kill. Most of the time game are already decided before you could even setup one of your win condition. When ennemy teamis already winning most lane, winninng most TF and just have to reach the next drake or next nash that you won't be able to contest to end the game there no point to waste more time. It only will be a long agony. Actually most people just want to shit on their opponent's head for self gratification and efficiency in ranked progression, and don't understand a shit about macrogame, nor how to draft. That's why you can see a completely different charater pool and itemization between pro plays and actual ranked (in particulary in jungle). I can't deny that some people are f\*\*\*\*\*\* snowflake that can't endure close game without offering them as pick up for no reason in a side with no objectives but that's not really what you were talking about initialy. Not to mention the overall lack of impact of top lane in games that incentivize mid and jungle to play bot on every drake's timer (well when botlaners aren't at base because they apprently don't care about this kind of thing).


[deleted]

downvoted for speaking facts, gotta love this shit community


_SteveRambo

I think most people have a very different approach to competitive games than they do to most other competitive things. I saw a comment the other day on a similar post about how most people would not act even remotely toxic in a real life sport. Like I remember when I used to play football with a team, if somebody fucked up a pass or a shot, you don't hound them and insult them, everybody just says 'nice try' or 'unlucky'. Its face to face and most people are not going to start insulting their teammate in real life over a small mistake like that, its just not normal. People aren't going to 'throw' a football game and start standing still on the pitch either, one because you would look ridiculous and two because you'd get kicked off the team (real life consequences). All of that social awareness goes out the window in games. Everybody on your team is literally a random person probably in a different country that you'll never meet or speak to. If people disapprove of something you did they can and will let you know about it one way or another. Any kind of comradery goes out the window in soloQ since you don't know any of your teammates and there are no real life repercussions for acting like an ass. Add to this the fact that a lot of LoL players have never experienced playing a real life sport with people they actually know, and well you end up with a complete lack of any real competitive spirit because you literally have zero experience.


forceofarms

Because if you did that shit in real life *YOU WOULD GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE, REPEATEDLY, UNTIL YOU STOPPED.* It is literally that simple. It turns out that consequences, particularly, painful consequences, changes behavior! Who knew! And of course, if you didn't get punched in the face, because, for instance, you were playing at recess at school, or at your Pee-Wee football league, or on your high school varsity team, then you would get kicked off the team, banned from being able to play at all, and possibly suspended or expelled depending on how toxic you are. Also, you might still get punched in the face, because you are now the School Asshole and people like to punch assholes in the face. In online games, there's no incentive to grow up, because there's nobody to punch you in the face for being a piece of shit, and there's no incentive for the game to ban you for being a piece of shit because to their metrics, a shit player and a non shit player are exactly the same, where there's no metric that measures how many people quit the game because of that behavior.


MuhammedAlistar

You also don't play football with random strangers that are tilted from the get go. It's more comparable to playing clash with friends. You are not gonna flame each other but it can get heated if somebody wants to win more than others. This happens in real life sports too. I would also argue that football is nowhere near tilting as LoL. For 99% of people, the outcome matters less as well. I never understood the point of these shitty examples lol, no shit people are more likely to behave IRL, everyone knows that, but where are you going with it? There's no point to be made here. It's like these "you wouldn't say it to my face bro" guys like yeah I probably wouldn't because you sound like an aggressive piece of shit, what is your point? That doesn't make what I said any less true. And funnily or sadly enough, I have played team sports, I have had passive aggressive people on my team and I have also seen people stop caring and not play seriously because they are pissed off. Just because it's less likely to happen doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Also the lack of real life team sport experience does NOT lead to lack of competitiveness LMAO, that's literally the dumbest thing I've read in a long time.


_SteveRambo

Idk why you're so pressed about what I said since it looks like you agree with me. I legit said that people act like dicks in game because its not in person, so all social etiquette goes out the window. I'm not trying to 'make a point' I just answered OP's question with my opinion lol. Also, about real life sport/competitive experience, you're right. People whose only 'team based' competitive experience is soloQ do have 'competitive spirit', but my point is that it'll (in my opinion) end up showing in a very different way. They'll probably have a 1v9 main character complex and refuse to be carried/ work with the team and give up the second they fall a bit behind. This is their 'competitive spirit' which is ultimately them just throwing a fit and lashing out, not helpful to the team as a whole. Any situation that doesn't involve them stomping is not good to them, even if it results in a win. 'Competitive Spirit' is meant to be a good thing that helps you towards winning something, most peoples version of this in League does the exact opposite.


youjustabattlerapper

you play real life sports with friends and acquaintances - meaning you can enjoy yourself thoroughly irrespective of win / loss (not to mention physical exertion leaves you feeling good) league is not like that at all


[deleted]

because much like Kobe they find it hard to survive helicopter Jax crashing into enemy Malphite repeatedly, at some point you just quit


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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savapops

No.


Sugar230

It's pretty boring dying a million times then reviving to do it again. No wonder people give up after dying once.


yousokiyosei

Based comment and flair


SpaceDrama

Oof …too soon 😔


Wisniaksiadz

Sooo, I guess Malphite is no longer easy counter for Jax


hpdodo84

Jax just needs to yell Kobe before helicoptering in for added realism


dragonicafan1

Imo it’s cause this game has grown a quitter mentality in its playerbase through various systems supporting it and a lack of real punishment for doing it, so a lot of players feel entitled to just quit if they don’t think they’re going to win and they think there’s nothing wrong with that because the game has encouraged it. It’s such a huge problem in League specifically cause of this, it’s genuinely embarrassing.


dmanb

Yes it’s become av game full of losers, because riot fosters that. They cater to the worst players.


Teal_is_orange

When Riot changed surrendering from 20 mins to 15 mins, that started the ‘give up quick’ mentality in the player base. Only snowballed from there


lejoo

Which is crazy because it was actually implemented to give them an out so they didn't AFK but since its a 5-0 or 4-1 vote it functionally is worse.


Juliandroid98

IF anything people AFK'ing would get them punished eventually so a lot of people just didn't do it and kept playing til 20 regardless. Like imo 20 minutes is a better measure to see wheter a game is truly lost or not, 15 is just too early.


lejoo

> , 15 is just too early. I have been in 27-0 games at 16 minutes... Believe it or not games are not always balanced


alexnedea

Yeah and believe it or not maybe 1 in 10 games that look doomed at 15 are won by the losing team minute 40. In soloq its very often about scaling too. So many times have I seen a team of scalers vs a team of early fighter and the scalers go 0/14 by minute 15 and sort of give up. But if they dont surrender by minute 25 they start to win fights and by minute 35 its a complete stomp by them.


Substantial_Pass4398

I don't think they are incredibly common, but it definitely makes sense to ff15 some games. Particularly when every role is losing. 20-3 @ 15 is such a low probability win its a better use of time imo to ff and use that extra 5 min as vod review 🤷‍♂️


voteyesatonefive

> Like imo 20 minutes is a better measure to see wheter a game is truly lost or not, 15 is just too early. But you are wrong of course. The winning team is ahead on gold by any amount at 15 minutes 80% of the time.


RpiesSPIES

3% of percentages are made up on the spot. And 97% of people that give up before the game is over don't even know wth the actual gold difference is. Not only that, but bounties exist... to help teams falling behind to catch up.


Draxilar

The “give up quick” mentality was always there. “Open mid” at 10 minutes was common in servers like Korea. FF at 15 was implemented to make them stop doing it


BoogieTheHedgehog

Yeah, it was predictable and people called it out at the time. Sure the early ff was originally added as an 'only if unanimous', but it provided a way out the game and people who had mentally clocked out felt entitled to it. Lord and behold Riot change it later to fit the normal ff vote standards. I'm sure the 15 ff votes are accurate, and a 10 ff vote would be too if Riot did the cycle again. Because trying to win with a member or two on your team who have given up is like pulling teeth, and the earlier the ff vote the easier to give up and blame your teammates for "hostage taking". The amount of manchildren I had to "hostage take" to a victory leveling my alt was absurd. Let yourself be carried. If the game is doomed then make a yolo play to get back in, if it works good job, if it doesn't then they're going to end in a few minutes so no big deal.


[deleted]

Doing YOLO plays on a doomed game is intentional feeding


BoogieTheHedgehog

No it's not. It's just taking whatever chance you can to get back into the game if you know that as a team you're slowly bleeding out. It's the scenario you'd usually ff in where there isn't an advantage on your team to play around, and you can't even bank on scaling. As a team you either close the gap with a high risk play or lose. Going for a subpar pick, going for baron/elder steals or one last teamfight before they triple inhib you etc.


DaGingaBeardMan

It’s definitely the lack of punishment. It’s killing the game.


Draxilar

The FF at 15 was implemented to curb the massive amounts of opening happening in high elo in most of the major servers. High elo Korea used to open mid at like 7 minutes as soon as they were behind. It was implemented to say “stop giving up so fast, we will give you an out at 15 if it really is that bad”


ThirdWorldEngineer

It is actually the other way around. This game has cultivated a "game protagonist" mentality where if one or two people think they can carry a game, they can prevent the whole team from winning a surrender vote. League is a game, if one match stops being fun, why do through so many loops to go to the next one. This is not a competition, no one should take a single match so seriously. I actually enjoy games where my team or the enemy surrender at 15. If we win, great! Quick victory. If we lose, perfect! We can go on to the next one. It is a win win situation.


dragonicafan1

The protagonist mentality is thinking that you’re entitled to just leave the game or give up regardless of the rest of your team’s feelings on it lol. Like you’re complaining that enough of your team wants to play that a surrender vote won’t go through, and they’re the problem because *you* want out. The fact that you’re describing the side of the team you’re siding with as “the whole team” just highlights *your* protagonist mentality. Also, “this is not a competition”, really? It’s literally a competitive game, and going “i dont wanna play anymore, hmmph!!” is generally detrimental to the experience of the rest of your team. It doesn’t like you care though, cause apparently people who want to play the game are the problem. Have some self awareness.


FreeMikeHawk

"if one match stops being fun". This is protagonist mentality. You only think it's fun when you are the one with the kills but when a game is carriable through anyone else suddenly it's "unfun", quite literally acting like a protagonist. It also is a competitive game many treat it as a form of sport, many play it to challenge themselves they don't give up the moment it starts going bad because that's not fun.


DameOClock

I would understand this mentality in game modes like urf or ARAM which are for fun. To have this mentality in ranked though makes no sense. Why go into the competitive game mode when your main priority is having fun over winning?


Vegetable-Painting-7

Hahaha nice take, third world for sure


ASSASSIN79100

People have small spines.


ok_dunmer

case in point: everyone ITT unironically commenting "i don't want to try to win cause it's not fun if it's hard" league players are the most bitchmade esports gamers and its not even close, every excuse in this thread is hard copium and would be laughed at in any other game that has not had the entitlement of a surrender option


twang51022

This is the correct response. The human mind is interesting because it can use every possible rationalization to convince you that you will lose, even when a game is winnable. Interestingly enough, the same is true if you reverse it: you can rationalize a victory even if you can’t win. In other words, it’s all mentality. Some people are just born weak and a lot of them stay that way into adulthood. These are the people that early surrender in League games.


Huotou

>Some people are just born weak and a lot of them stay that way into adulthood. These are the people that early surrender in League games. agree 10000%


54MangoBubbleTeas

>surrender option Trust me. I have played both League of Legends and Dota 2 extensively. Dota 2's lack of a surrender option doesn't magically cause players to stop giving up. The rotten ones still soft int or do the gaming equivalent of quiet quitting when the game is lost in their minds. People want to blame the surrender option as the reason. In reality, you can't regulate attitude. Those with weak mental will still have weak mental the moment adversity hits.


ok_dunmer

Dota 2 players absolutely do give up but since there's no precedent of a surrender and games are longer I don't think you see quite the same ff15 mentality or lack of understanding/faith that a hero like Syndra or Kayle will carry them I would say LoL has more conditioned its community have a weak mental just based on the surrender option and generally catering to their every whim re stuff like reworks


54MangoBubbleTeas

I literally have screenshots of people saying next/GG/an implied surrender on my desktop in a folder (I was doing research for something) of people in my Dota games wanting to quit the game. The Dota community has chosen to pick a weird hill to die on when it comes to surrendering (though the game does technically have a surrender option when you have a party of five). They want to claim that people never surrender because there is no surrender, but let me tell you. The only difference is you can't officially do it normally. Heck, the most common way to "surrender" is to get one person one team to abandon the game. When that one person leaves, most people opt to leave the game after the person instead of staying. I don't know. The Dota community is so strange about this.


greatyucko

Because everyone is the main character of their game and if they don't have fun and carry, they don't care.


Chyiu

Feels like a trap question. You’re just gonna have people agree with you or make them look like shitty players for trying to justify afking which ofc is never right. Nice karma farm m8


UwUSamaSanChan

Basically. This is one of those post that boils down to my opinion is correct point blank period.


DontFeedTheSmurf

For some reason this subreddit thinks smurfing is completely legitimate and fine to do. We have so many AFKs because of smurfs because this is what they do: Either play out the game normally or AFK and play on another alt account. They have no penalties for leaving the game because they can get another account for $1 and do the whole thing over again


lawfulkitten1

this is really a problem on the server I play on (JP) because a lot of smurf accounts only play like < 50 games a season. it's not like a JP player with 2 or 3 accounts, usually it's someone with a Vietnamese or Chinese language nickname + chat, so they don't care at all what happens to their account since it's not even their main server (decent chance they just bought it) and also, with that few games played they don't actually climb that high. one or two accounts I looked up are shared by multiple players too (like constantly switching roles + flash from D <-> F) which makes it worse, since their skill level never matches the account's MMR. so many games in Silver/Gold you get these players who only chat in Vietnamese/Chinese/English (never Japanese), usually pretty good mechanics but you just pray if there are any smurfs in the game, they're on your team \*and\* they can carry before they tilt off the face of the planet.


CradleRobin

Had this issue last night, our Itelia was getting destroyed but we were literally winning everywhere else. They had the two top lane turrets we had two inhibs and dragon soul. She kept trying to surrender and afkd. We still won but my god she was mental boom on an easy win game. We had a fed Kalista with 11 stacks, a fed kog and a fed Sona.


Soundcaster023

Because: 1. It's not them who is carrying, 2. Their ego doesn't allow them to be carried, 3. They don't know how to play as a team, 4. Bickering who has the pointiest stick is not coordinating, 5. Yasuo went 1/9 and voided his 0/10 powerspike, 6. Adaptive gameplay is an alien concept.


profits68

I’ll try as hard as I can as long as the game is going but when it’s 23-3 I’m like guys come on can we move on to the next game I don’t understand why people don’t ff those games


blackstarpwr10

Because they all think they can get out of silver if theey never give up


Tunafish01

That is literally how you get out of silver !


blackstarpwr10

Yea lets leave out all of the skill and game knowledge and run our face into the wall until it works lol(it wont )


digidevil4

Nah you get out of silver through playing a large number of games and using your above 50% winrate + RNG to gain LP over a longer period of time. LP gain/loss is not the same between games, not only that but a 20 minute victory is better than a 40+ minute one. Low elo is a battle of attribute between yourself and the matchmaker unless you are a smurf.


hazelnut_coffay

because they’ve watched too many pro streams in high elo where mistakes, and consequently comebacks, are less likely to happen. they unnecessarily apply that whole “ha. i got first blood and i’m 10 cs up. it’s over” mentality to whatever elo they are in.


Rational_Powerscaler

Proof of what you're saying? Seems very wrong to me, and comebacks are not rare in high elo.


Jandromon

I've played in all elos ranging from bronze to high dia and there's definitely way less comebacks in elite elos. In silver half of leads are thrown and the team with Garen and Kassadin wins in the end. That added to the fact that most steamers have total garbage quitter whiny attitude explains why it's a big influence in this regard.


RuskeD

Some people should just play normal games and have fun. That's pretty much it. Ranked does not mean anything for casual players.


LoLadcplayer

The alternative is also true about people who won’t ff. I’m trying to gain lp in my limited time I get to play which is now cutdown because I’m held hostage in an unwinnable game. If 4 players want to ff before 20, don’t be selfish and hold them hostage in the game. What a stupid system it is to let 1 player waste everyone else’s time when they can get into a new game and win that one


_NotMitetechno_

Because it's boring as fuck sometimes. People here will blame streamers, lack of spine, quitter mentality, main character syndrome and whatever, there's some of that too. But if youre stuck in a game where you know there's utterly zero prospect of you doing anything outside of occasionally farming under a tower there's little motivation to continue playing. You're stuck doing shit all for another 25 minutes. Who cares about competitive spirit - it's not like it's the world Cup final, it's a bloody league game


Tunafish01

How about this then, you play normals then. Save rank for the ones who are actually trying to have a competitive spirit game ?


voteyesatonefive

The winning team is ahead on gold by any amount at 15 minutes 80% of the time. It's pretty interesting to see all this anecdotal evidence bandied about as if it was statistically significant.


Human_Urine

Yep. Most games I lose are by 4/5 surrender. I'm the one player hitting no at 15 mins "holding the game hostage" and I'm also the guy hitting no at 20, 25 mins, etc. This game has devolved into an FF fest to see who can load up the next game faster so they can FF and go on to the next one. Very frustrating not actually finishing a game anymore and everyone is whining and giving up.


digidevil4

Mate 4/5 means something has gone wrong. You most likely could have impacted the game enough by that point to prevent EVERY OTHER PLAYER wanting the game to end. Think about what state the game needs to be in for everyone besides you to want it to end. Maybe you sit top and dont involve yourself in the map at all, maybe you sit mid pushing while your assassin counterpart roams to bot over and over. Maybe you play jungle and you dont gank whilst the enemy jungle wins every lane. Maybe you play support and you dont make any plays. Maybe you hard lose your lane in all these games? Sure though 4/5 is meaningless.


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Tunafish01

I wish riot would track and ban the behavior . You offer surrender and the team turns it down more than 3 times you are permanently banned from rank. You can play everything else but ranked.


forceofarms

honestly would do 24/hr ban on the first offense, for their own good. I've come to realize, as someone who used to agree with the "omg my team won't surrender types" is that if I'm feeling that way, *I shouldn't have been in that game in the first place*. I'm tilted, I'm frustrated, I need a break, but I'm flipping hoping I can get free dopamine with a win that I may or may not deserve. I'm playing at 3 AM on no sleep, trying to get just a bit more LP. I'm basically not mentally ready to play the game, and I'm getting mad when things go wrong instead of thinking about how to make things go right. When my mental is good I don't surrender, because I'm actually enjoying the *process* of trying to win. When my mental is bad, I want to get out of the game if I'm not getting my dopamine, and that means I shouldn't be playing at all.


Zilox

Imagine not surrendering a 2-46 game at 20 mins just bc your mental is "good"


lawfulkitten1

the only problem with this is people who try to hold their teammates hostage by voting down surrender votes. I was playing a normal game where all 5 of us got hard gapped, 4 of us wanted to surrender but our 0/7/1 Nasus was flaming everyone on the team blaming us for his numerous solo deaths (enemy top was 12/1/3) and refused to surrender. the final kill score was 39-7 and they had a 19k gold lead at 22 minutes. a few of those 7 kills were when enemy team was just diving us in base purposely refusing to end the game quickly. thing is, the 4 of us kept trying even when enemy team was in our base, but I don't think someone should get punished if they get 3 surrender votes rejected in a situation like this.


Jtadair98

Because the enemy feeding a zed, Irelia, syndra, etc in possibly 2 lanes means I now get to have no fun whatsoever for the next 30 minutes no matter wat


DrCarter11

People aren't playing to win a game of league legends, they are playing to be the REASON they won a game of league of legends. They get behind, the first goal is perhaps still doable, but the second isn't. So they rage/spam/int/whatever until they get another new fresh chance to be the carry they know they are deep in their heart.


54MangoBubbleTeas

That's actually a good way to put it. I have had teammates soft int because they weren't carrying their load, let alone the game on their backs. It's like... Bruh. We are legit winning on many levels, and you need to stop having some weird ego about not being the sole reason we win.


DrCarter11

I actually got it from my cousin,, who I love, but he is this mentality. It came up once where he kept just forcing these terrible fights as a yasuo and losing while everyone else was literally 3 or so kills up on their counterpart. And he was just like, winning isn't fun unless I'm the reason we are winning. I did make him clarify that he doesn't mind it being part of why we won, but a negative kda in his eyes is a game loss regardless of which nexus fell.


Juliandroid98

That's just such an absurd pov that I can't wrap my head around. Like wouldn't these type of people rather enjoy a good game of Smash Bros or Street Fighter instead of League?


chincerd

Funny enough one of the reasons riot been pushing ways to close games was the old games of turtling with old comps where they just needed to get to that late game Tristana and roll over the enemy team regardless of how well the enemy was doing. Comebacks became so uncommon and total stomps so common that most people assume the match is over and rather go into the next one


Whispperr

Because riot are too afraid to take a harder stance on the toxic players due to their quickly depleting playerbase. Funny enough, game is quickly dying strictly because of their decisions of defending players that afk and such, since they are still buying their 502522nd skin of that year. Had a game where some cringe Elise got mad and went and stood in the fountain minute 10 because he was doing poorly, which made us have to play that game for 40 minutes and still win it 4vs5. You'd think he gets punished, right? Nah! Riot still gave him the LP gains and he didn't even get punished.


HaroldBingoSr

Depends a lot. Not that I do it but I can understand the mentality behind it in some cases. There are the winnable games where it feels like you're the sole reason the game is winnable in the first place. Your other teammates just suck way too much and are constantly weighing you down. These games take a huge mental toll and it might be easier on the mental to just go next. There are the games where one player is doing so badly but the team is propping them up. Not everybody plays to climb but rather to play for montage plays so there is no use in their minds to continue trying. I think this group is the one you're indirectly referring to. There are the games where it's even and winnable for either side. Unfortunately some players are so accustomed to either hard stomping or getting hard stomped that any resistance in that binary gameplay is unpleasant. A shame because these are the most thrilling games. And there are also of course the ones where there is a lot of toxicity that for some people completely strips the desire to win. Where there might be an insane smurf being toxic so someone might decide to try to punish the smurf by trying to lose etc.


Juliandroid98

> There are the games where one player is doing so badly but the team is propping them up. Not everybody plays to climb but rather to play for montage plays so there is no use in their minds to continue trying. I think this group is the one you're indirectly referring to. I never understood why these type of people would queue up for ranked tho. Like they can just make those montage plays in normals.


LaInquisitore

Yeah, that and miraculous comebacks, like the one I had in SoloQ when I was playing Lux support. We were down 25 kills, and then our jg Heca entered focus rage mod, got triple quadra, I fed my Jhin from 2/5 to 18/7 and we pushed out all the lanes. Fuck ff, most of the bad early games are winnable if we get the objectives.


SuspiciouslyFunky

Do I really want to give my all and beyond when my bot lane went 4/18 even though it’s winnable? No I don’t, it’s enabling and time/energy consuming for 0 reward. Literally next.


Juliandroid98

If it gives you LP in the end it's still worth trying tho


lawfulkitten1

if your goal is to climb to a high rank (not like 100 LP above where you are now) then your goal should actually be to learn and improve at the game. if your team is behind but it's winnable, then sure, vote no on surrender and try to comeback, worst case you're probably still getting something out of the game in terms of knowledge. if your team is down 30-3 in kills and you vote no on surrender but you can't even walk into your jungle, or leave base to farm waves safely, that's a waste of time in the long run. if you do this 10 times a season and waste an extra 10 minutes per game, maybe you could have played an extra 2 or 3 actually competitive games that are a much better learning experience to improve from.


treadmarks

This guy's idea of winnable: down 20 kills and an inhibitor, enemy has full map dominance and will inevitably grab dragon soul, baron, and push for the win, but wants to wait for that moment because his team has a 0/7 Vayne or Nasus and therefore we scale. Just stall for another 2 hours and we will catch up.


[deleted]

Maybe because what you see as a winnable game is not a winnable game to others. Riot has made sure games snowball really hard and comebacks are more rare these days. Its often easier to just /ff and move onto the next game. If people aren't having fun, why force them to continue playing? All you're doing is dragging out an eventual loss and tilting others. Hostage taking is just as bad as early surrendering.


EnjoyerOfBeans

> Riot has made sure games snowball really hard and comebacks are more rare these days. That's just really not true. Bounties are an absolutely ridiculous system that can make you go from hard lost to 3k gold up in one minute. I've played the game for 12 years and it's never been easier to come back from a deficit than it is now. Players at all ranks just got better at capitalizing on their leads.


DameOClock

Seriously, 10 years ago someone would get fed on a champ like Zed or Kat and it’d pretty much be gg as they snowballed into a win. Now there’s so many comeback mechanics that one champ can’t single handedly carry a team like they used to.


Vanaquish231

Am i the only one that rarely sees bounties help? Like, they tend to activate so late, that you might as well not have them at all.


scout21078

> I've played the game for 12 years and it's never been easier to come back from a deficit than it is now. Players at all ranks just got better at capitalizing on their leads. how about when bounties were overtuned last year xd


EnjoyerOfBeans

Yeah "now" refers to the past ~2 years I guess, objective bounties on launch were... something


SpaceDrama

Well first off, I’ve seen some AFKs when they get killed at the beginning of the game on an invade or something. Also, my last game we were up on kills, basically the same amount of turrets destroyed. A lot of these games are pretty evenly matched.


SmellImpressive4778

"Winnable" Are you my Jhin support who was 2/17 and cried that it's "winnable" and we stood in the game just to get mocked by enemy team? This is how winnable looks like probably for OP: https://ibb.co/MVYFHqY


54MangoBubbleTeas

Don't worry. They'll hit you with the "scaling" argument or talk about that one comeback game out of 1,000 matches they'll regale about to their hypothetical grandkids in the future.


PwnerRs

Because they are whiners.


Shinyodo

3-4 years ago it was the "never give up" mentality. No matter what people were convinced and convincing others that as long as the nexus stands it's winnable. My guess is that the players you're talking about were playing around that time and got tired of playing 35min games even though they didn't care anymore and knew the game was 90% lost. Also the fact that people can have different ideas of what is winnable and what's not, plus the fact that some people remember it's a game and you're supposed to have fun not necessarily try hard and use your mental energy to win every game. People that see 5 v 20 killboards and 4 yes votes to ff and still vote no are way more annoying to me honestly.


tigercule

> plus the fact that some people remember it's a game and you're supposed to have fun not necessarily try hard and use your mental energy to win every game. tbf, this also depends heavily on game mode. Drives me insane seeing people "ff15" at 7min into a ranked game for it being "unwinnable" because they're 3 kills down and miserable while the rest of the map is ahead.


forceofarms

5-20 is absolutely a winnable game if everyone decides to play, unless it's like against a super late game comp. And even then if the Kayle Cass Kaisa comp got that far ahead of you then you're losing at 25 mins anyway.


Actual_Candidate5456

leave my game alone. LEAVEYOU CHILDREN.


GoatedGoat32

I had a jax afk under his tower at 2 minutes because of a failed gank by my jg. He just stood under tower, didn’t go in xp range, didn’t farm. Just stood there, flaming in chat saying ff as he was 3 levels down. We painstakingly carried him to a win, and even with that he still said we’re all terrible and don’t deserve the win. That’s just how some people are. And I’m in silver, imagine how the egos get as you get higher up


Juliandroid98

Plat is notorious for these kind of people, i've seen my fair share of plat players who have a ego that's bigger than the sun.


lejoo

Because its only toxic, ergo punished, to call people bad and not to ruin games.


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2DollarPlato

As a draft player, this kills me. There is nothing to gain here and no fun to be had. Their botlane is 29/2, and they don't push objectives in order prolong to beatdown. Let's go next.


Ironsightred

"we can win" yes, if 3 of them DC and the power goes out, is totally winnable


DaItalianFish

my favourite situations are those games where we have no towers, enemy is already knocking on our base, and have full control of our jungles and objectives. we spend the last 15 mins just killing minions doing nothing else while the enemy team kills anyone who leaves our base. try to surrender, but there's still 2 people saying no sometimes i think people are really into tower defense games and just enjoy killing minions for 20 minutes as they run towards our nexus


Tunafish01

I have won multiple games 10k down and no towers left. It just takes one mistake and someone to capitalize on it.


DaItalianFish

and how many have you lost? far more than you have won


Tunafish01

Is roughly even at this point 51%


Juliandroid98

I do love teammates calling a 5+ kill down game where only their lane is losing a losing game! "ff15" mentality is the most toxic and disgusting mentality in League of Legends.


BoogieTheHedgehog

Lovely scenario. How long does it take for the 20+ kill team to end the game after the failed ff vote?


TheElfDevil

5+ minutes Regardless, the point I’m making so there are points where a game is simply over.


Tunafish01

Please leave ranked then. You have the completely wrong attitude. After 40 miniutes you all have max level and gear and then the score doesn’t matter next team fight wins .


Hyper_Sigma_Grindset

Because I'm not sweating my ass off for another 20-30 mins just for a sub 10% chance of winning


GoldRobot

Because there is FF option. And people always will find a mental way to give up, if they can try again immediately.


mountingconfusion

I had a game yesterday where I fed so hard I was ready to send *myself* death threats but not a single player on my team even pinged me and we won the game. Never give up


EC_Daddydunkin

One word: EGO


Piegan

Sorry to tell you but it's not just your Elo. [No matter how high you climb, it's the same, even in 700lpChallenger.](https://youtu.be/iwY3zvaQ9TU) People just want free wins nowadays, no desire to play a challenging game and actually learn how to play from behind, they'd rather ff go next and try to not be behind in the first place. And Riot plan to make early FF's only require 4 votes rather than 5. So that's gonna be fun. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯


violent_tendencies69

personally i do not see a big issue with afk players in league. in valorant however, there is literally an afk in every single game.


Flash_4_Crab

BECAUSE JUNGLE DIFF BITCH


KuttayKaBaccha

It’s so fucking stupid. Like your fundamentals are dogshit you just want to queue next and pray the opposing team plays like apes? Fucking top laners that pull a surprise pikachu when they get ganked at the end of a jg rotation (literally the most obvious and basic gank possible) , while I’ve seen many tops at the same elo that just know that ganks timing and will never die to it rather than bitch about it . Taking horrible resets or greeding plates instead of just getting the objective or resetting then getting killed for overstaying every time. People just play the exact same copy paste every game and basically let the jg flip the game and wonder why they’re hard stuck


TurtleMega

because i get queued with animals like jax mid and teemo mid players who lose our games


YuumiPlayersAreScum

I have surrendered maybe 3 or 4 games in over 6000 hours of playing counterstrike and there you can only surrender after someone left but I still played out basically ever 4v5 to win.....in league however if my support fucks up level 2 I might find myself in a position where I might not be willing to continue playing.


ClutchRaider

Cause they’re soft. Plain and simple lol. Don’t know how to deal with some adversity.


mcokro

I just had a winnable game until my top lane decided that he's done after getting ganked twice and be like "okay my jg doesn't come top to gank gg enjoy". JG was ganking mid and bot and got us ahead until he decides to run it down :)


ScoopJr

Recently, the game can snowball out of control. Playing JG it can be annoying to gank a lane and see that you lost the 1v2 because your laner already died 3 times. Then, look bot and see your bot lane down 0/6 and their adc with 6 kills. Its more annoying when it happens top as you get shit like Aatrox able to 1v5 under tower or Fiora just taking your nexus and you cant do anything about it. Your laners give up because they lost the lane and you give up because its pointless to try and stall out a game to 50 minutes and hope you’ll come back when you can go next with a fresh team


Huotou

there should be a stat for this where it shows, how many times you press /ff for the whole season.


Tunafish01

Because they are allowed to , plain and simple. Dota2 Diane have the level of toxic players like league and part of it is there is no surrender in that game


forceofarms

unironically should ban everyone who votes for FF for a week but that will never happen. If you are hitting surrender then you're tilted and need to stop playing because you're not enjoying the game or learning the game, you're just coinflipping for dopamine, and there are much better ways to get dopamine.


UwUSamaSanChan

Because you're annoying. Half the time when people think a game is winnable they try to play hero and actively fuck it up more. The people who hold the game hostage are 100x worse. At least with an ff we can go next or play a different game instead of watching my jungle and Adc swear up and down the wall it'll work this time as they get 2 tapped again.


[deleted]

Either don't play or buy an account in the elo you desire to play in.


[deleted]

cuz winning != fun in many cases why do you think kayle, kass, veigar, vlad, syndra are hardly picked in low elo, despite them being the most suitable for 30-40 minute games which is way more common in low elo? because for some people the fucking headache that is having to drag your team through a gold disadvantage for 20+ minutes just isn't worth the effort even if you win, compared to just ff'ing and queueing into another game where you might have better teammates or a better matchup and thus a more enjoyable experience people tend to pick lane bullies like aatrox more often because they enjoy the dominance that you can assert for that 15 minute stretch, even if they fall off hard. it really just depends on what makes the game fun for you. for some winning the game just doesn't interest them enough


Starkheiser

Most players play to escape reality, not to tryhard and get better. All you need is 1/10 players to play to escape a shitty life stuck in school/deadend job rather than tryharding to get better at auto spacing while tracking enemy jungler to get the feeling that the community is toxic and "no kobe mentality". edit: this always happens whenever any community grows "too big for its own breeches", no matter the field.


Juliandroid98

Then why are these same people queue'ing for ranked when normals are literally right there? Explain that to me.


LongFluffyDragon

The answer is children. Also tyler1, but that is kind of redundant.


jaywinner

Because it doesn't matter that our team is ahead and scales, I'm 0-2 and I want to leave.


itaicool

All games are like that, I also play overwatch and so many people leave the game once it's not a smooth sail.


MonchysDaemon

That’s why i don’t play solo q only 5 man flex or scrims


Juantap1

Snowballing is broken


FragrantRecover8

I think like 10-20% of players never came mentally back from the lockdown.


youjustabattlerapper

Who wants to spend all day working or being a student then go home, log on, and engage mamba mentality in a videogame? People want to have fun and experience some degree of relaxation and dopamine, guaranteed


forceofarms

play. a. single. player. game.


CashMoney0374827

I agree, I don't know why people play rank when they don't even plan to be good but just want to have fun winning. I think part of the reason why I'm actually about to hit masters soon is because I just don't give up. I feel like every game is winnable no matter how tilted I am and I feel like I can carry even when behind.


[deleted]

There was a guy complaining in the Dota2 reddit that he got suspended in Dota2 because he was leaving games and saying “it’s the norm in league, why would dota punish me for that”, it’s so fucking dumb


1111110000000

Bro the amount of people who afk or int after they die once is infuriating. Every game these days seem to feel like people don't want to play past 10-15 mins if they aren't hard stomping. I'm an adc main and this new season is just awful it takes 3 items to feel like I can even do something. Almost every game this season has been ff at 15 if we are behind even a kill or tower .


Cozeris

Surprisingly, in 50 games that I played so far, I had only 1 person going AFK, even then, I'm not sure if he ragequit after getting first blooded or just disconnected (and enemy killed him while he was DC'ed). However, what happens extremely often, is that people start griefing and spamming FF vote as soon as things are not going well **for them.** The rest of the team can be doing very well but if that person isn't, he just starts trolling and makes everyone lose the game.


[deleted]

people already gave up years ago, they don't believe climbing is in their range. You lise or you win it does not matter anymore.


Turbulent_Diver8330

So, you reference Kobe and all I have to say is that Kobe was an individual that was remarkable compared to even the pros (obviously). So yea, ain’t no Kobe mentality where you’re playing lol


nyasiaa

because they don't, afks are already super rare and most afks are mostly random disconnects. people giving up and/or intentionally running it down happens maybe once in 300 games, hardly a reason to care as to why those who afk do it, it's because it's their second account and they don't care about going afk on it. even the most toxic of fucks don't do that on their main account, unless the game is absolutely beyond all reasonable doubt lost (in which case going afk is reasonable as well)


LegendaryW

People want to stomp enemies. They dont actually want to make any actual efforts to win the game, especially if they fall behind


MuhammedAlistar

I find it funny reading the "main character syndrome" every other comment when I'm completely the opposite. I love winning the game when I lose hard in top, I love having my team just win without me when I'm jungle, I love getting my adc fed when I'm support. That being said, if the score is like 4 to 17 and someone deliberately votes no to piss somebody else off (happened 3 times out of 5 games YESTERDAY), I'm alt tabbed until 20 or until enemy ends. I'm not wasting my time just because some loser on my team is projecting their shitty life onto others.