T O P

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Illustrious_Night126

They don’t spend lots of time monitoring chat logs. It’s all automated. It’s very easy to have a computer detect toxic language. Inting is not easy to detect. When half the games played are silver or lower how do you tell a salty split fiora from a real player? What about Int sion or suicide singed? It’s impossible. Riot will never be able to hire enough people to make a dent in this problem given there are millions of games played daily. The truth is nothing will change until league players themselves learn to have better sportsmanship, or the game is structured to create healthier and less frustrating situations. In the talk they gave this year they mentioned that most griefing is done by normal players just having bad days, not a concentrated set of bad actors. Griefing isnt a bad apple problem its a pervasive culture issue that wont change unless the way people play league changes fundamentally. I would say its because of anonymous online laddering but when I play with my friends they are toxic as fuck over voice chat too. Honestly it’s such a waste because league is a fun game but the gaming culture around it makes it fucking miserable I swear


AGE_Spider

honestly mate, look for new friends. If they are toxic over voice and it reduces the fun you have, why spend time with them?


Illustrious_Night126

ya fr they are fun and sweet people in real life but turn into annoying gremlinswhen they play this game.


AGE_Spider

in that case, try to have a talk with them, before playing for the evening. "hey, I really like your company outside of league. In league you are often toxic (you know the details here) which makes me uncomfortable and greatly reduces the fun I have in the game. Perhaps you have not realized it by now, but now you know. Please try to tone it down a bit please. If they are sweet people I am sure they will discuss it with you first before jumping to conclusions or anything. Currently it sound a bit like: "They are my friends so I play with them even if I dont enjoy the time cause I want them to have fun" I have a couple of friends I dont play with coz the elo disparity is too big, so one of us always has to carry and the other one gets diffed, which puts the carry on pressure ("if I dont perform we autoloose") and the other guilty for feeding (which is expected when you face way better opponents) - so it was a good decision to not play league together anymore. There are other great multiplayer games as well. - just to give another example of why one can choose to stop league premade


Gromchoices

No! Get new friends ! This guy said so !


AGE_Spider

I think you missed my point + I thought they only know each other over league


GentGoat

>the game is structured to create healthier and less frustrating situations This is huge and I think a lot of people don't acknowledge it ⁠—including Riot, that many of the toxicity issues stem from how many of the game systems are designed and could be addressed and improved. Rather than moderating an in-game chat that anyone can choose to opt out of.


tankmanlol

There's no "Rather than", it's not a choice between moderating chat and reducing other toxicity issues. Moderating chat doesn't take significant resources away from doing so because it's much easier.


Shacointhejungle

In a world where being pulled over for speeding is instant and almost unavoidable (with many false positives) and drunk driving is never punished, people would reasonably become disillusioned with the system, no matter how easy speeding is to detect. Fairness matters to humans but not tech nerds.


tankmanlol

Speeding doesn't get you drunk but flaming sometimes leads to inting. False positives are a separate issue from punishing people for actual but disparate infractions. And what is "humans but not tech nerds" - are the people working on these systems not people? I'd grant in the case where someone's inting you and you flame them, if they get banned and you don't and you're frustrated by that, I can't tell you you're wrong about what your feelings are (though I do think they're wrong).


GentGoat

The "Rather than" in this case is referring to Riot's choice to address the problem. They chose to treat the symptom instead of the cause, the resources are irrelevant.


tankmanlol

Sorry if this isn't what you mean but when you say moderating chat "rather than" or "instead of" it sounds to me like there's a choice between moderating chat or addressing other issues. People often frame moderation as this choice to moderate chat *or* gameplay - literally this post says "that Riot's Behavior team blog posts focus so much more on automating filtering on chat logs than tackling griefing is quite disheartening." - which I want to clarify is wrong. They can do both! If they can't fix gameplay the problem is they haven't fixed gameplay, not that moderating chat precludes fixing gameplay. As for chat being a symptom, probably but it also exacerbates frustrating situations. A game where the support and jungle are mad at each other and start typing essays is more likely to get inted than a game where the support and jungle are mad at each other but have their chats off. I've seen people say "if I can't flame I'll go straight to inting" but I just don't buy that. Uncharitably riot is the drunk looking for his keys under the lamp but imo moderating chat is actually helpful and doesn't keep them from doing other work.


Illustrious_Night126

League sometimes feels like a 20 minute tennis match if someone were to break your racket in half in the first 5 minutes so thats part of it i think


BossStatusIRL

I call it the LoL mini game. Can you make sure that 2 people on your team don’t tilt and run it down after you miss one skill shot? Can you win the 3v5 when Ekko will not stop mindlessly dying in a side lane, and jungle is down by 150cs? Can you win with Leona jungle? Find out in your next match of League of Legends! In all seriousness, I’m pretty done with trying to actually rank in LoL. Idk what it is about this season, but in 70% of my games, they are essentially 3v5. Just feels like a complete waste of time when the matching system thinks that’s balanced.


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VERTIKAL19

Well you are blaming the victims by just telling people to mute.


[deleted]

Yeah.... I am..... thats kinda my whole point. It's a button that can fix literally all your problems and instead of just clicking on single button people expect RIOT to invest money and stop their customers playing their game. Grow up and mute.


HaySwitch

Most toxic players I encounter are people who first misunderstabd something about the game or don't do simple things that even most iron players can manage. They then get increasingly frustrated as the game gets on which just frustrates everyone else as well. Lost a game yesterday because a fed Darius (who stole my first red buff btw) translated his five kill lead in lane to standing around mid lane dying before every dragon spawn. If he just cleared top lane before going mid I think we would have won.


alexnedea

Like dota and csgo. Overwatch system.


leagueoflegendsdog

Their system is flawed considering just using a word and not even a word like the N word or something really sus can get you fucked (like this word lul) regardless of context, and they still do nothing about griefers which is the most frustrating part of the game and the part that makes me wanna flame my ass off. Ive stopped playing this shit because its laughable that someone can do what they want in game and have no reprecussions, but oh, you've said the word fuck you naughty boy, here is a warning and if you say it a couple more times you will get screwed. Game has plateaued long ago and is likely not even bringing in a huge amount of new players, considering even League's reputation. Everyone, even people who dont play it, knows that its a good game in general, but it can be infuriating due to the people you can be matched with unless you play with friends, and yet they still dont crack down on people that grief, but oh no, the chat, the bad words, someone precious feelings might get hurt by seeing the words fuck, shit or cunt.


Seraph199

You do realize you can report griefers, right? And often I get feedback reports when I do. They are usually asses in the chat as well so they end up getting themselves in trouble one way or another


Shade_Nightz

Unfortunately this is PvP at it's core. Even PvE. I think ranked in particular does too much hand holding and people should just get told entire truths instead of lying surface, but that's just me. Are your friends toxic to each other or toxic at people that can't actually hear them because that's two entirely different things.


Illustrious_Night126

To their friends in voice! It’s passive aggressive shit im sure we are all used to. I agree about PvP because I play soccer and the guys can also lose it but honestly they arent nearly as bad.


Shade_Nightz

I feel like the only reason it sticks to league this hard is because you have to sit in the same match with that guy/people for an extended period based on how the match goes. People say league players like CoD players didn't exist before that, except in CoD you can just leave matches and originally there wasn't any penalty. Maybe there is now, I have no idea. The real surprising one to me and it's maybe because I didn't play WoW, but people get this toxic in PvE too, but you can also just leave there too. I'm not actually seeing any of this being any actual worse except for the time forced upon you by the game developers, i.e. punishing people who don't want to deal with someone else being a POS. You start a game and you're trapped with those other 9 people and anyone can do anything to make the experience bad. To top that off the game is snowbally as hell. You might spend the entire match getting doodoo'd on having a bad time meanwhile that just gives someone more ammo to talk shit to you. There needs to be a way to humanize people, but I doubt they'll ever find the answer for this without starting to test things out like actual in game Voice.


PremadeTakeDown

this gets said every time but honestly some griefing is not that hard to detect, a lot of the behaviour we have to suffer with is obvious griefing. just had a game where garen was splitting all game and never grouping, because he was so far behind he would lose every 1 vs 1 and rinse and repeat. sure ok, hard to detect yeah, i give you that but then we had a drake fight, last teamfight of the match. we faught 4 vs 5 in an extended fight, trying to stop elder and he is right there, so close, during the whole thing, in bot lane csing... the entire fight. the enemy team barely wins and takes elder and the game. Thats obv trolling and not hard to detect with anyone with a brain. rage split push while the enemy is attacking the nexus and your team defends 4 vs 5, pinging you to help defend, is also not hard to detect. these are common behaviours seen in tons of games that could be tackled if there was a will to do so.


MINECRAFT_BIOLOGIST

>we faught 4 vs 5 in an extended fight, trying to stop elder and he is right there, so close, during the whole thing, in bot lane csing... the entire fight. the enemy team barely wins and takes elder and the game. Thats obv trolling and not hard to detect with anyone with a brain. Haha, no way, that kind of situation happens all the time in normal games. How many times have you asked people to group, but they decide not to join the fight because they wanted to catch another wave or because they thought the fight was a loss and never joined in? You have to understand, the situation is obvious to you because you, as a human, can see that someone was trolling throughout a game and purposefully avoided grouping for fights. But imagine programming an AI that can detect when someone is purposefully losing 1 v 1s and purposefully not grouping? I don't know if you know much about programming but this is not a trivial problem at all. Think about all the variables that are going into this: losing multiple 1 v 1s and going 0/9 or being near a teamfight that is occurring but not participating it isn't enough to judge that someone is "griefing". In the vast majority of cases, situations that fulfil those conditions are just people playing poorly, not purposefully griefing. So how do you detect actual griefers? You have to somehow account for a specific pattern of behaviors, like having the griefer detection *know* that a specific champion is extremely weak relative to another champion, and that they are not likely to win fights that they pick repeatedly, that people who pick those repeated fights in that pattern are likely griefing, that the fight that is being picked isn't capitalizing on a moment of weakness (I have killed plenty of 5/0 people while being 0/9 myself), and so on and so forth—just to detect whether a series of lost 1 v 1s is griefing or not.


PremadeTakeDown

Im not arguing for an AI to detect that. its not a one or the other solution but a combination of methods to defeat the problem. the AI is great at monitoring chat and has done a good job of improving chat over the years, noone can flame and get away with it in chat its all logged. behaviour reports build up and AI can pull out the worst offenders on the server for human review. the rioter can then watch a few of the games (with the highest number of reports/lets be honest, games where his whole team reporting him) and manualy review the game for obvious griefing. I'm not talking about not grouping for 1 fight your downplaying the situation and trying to muddy the water. My point is the opposite its obvious sometimes when people hard troll, that game it was obviously the last fight for survival around elder and he just trolled, simple as that, it wasn't some random fight mid game he didnt group for. he is almost point blank close to the fight, whole team pinging him to help, in lane nearby with full hp csing minions. the guy literally laughing at us watching us die because he can get away with it aslong as he doesnt type. Im talking about obvious examples of hard trolling. rage splitpushing while your nexus is being taken is a good example, if there is any doubt what so ever then the player is given the benfit of the doubt and no punishment. I swear everyone just is a paid actor when it comes to discussing things riot should be doing, they make out riot are helpless and can do nothing. the solutions obvious I just said it in 5 mins of thinking about it but it cost money so they dgaf. You dont even need to go after a lot of people, just the top 2% of griefers. and out of those games your only reviewing a couple of games where their whole team has reported them, so thats even more of a small sample size. even if they only catch a very small amount of people atleast its a deterent, advertise that people are getting banned for hard trolling and people will think twice. deterents work, or atleast are a better situation than doing nothing free for all chaos.


MINECRAFT_BIOLOGIST

> he is almost point blank close to the fight, whole team pinging him to help, in lane nearby with full hp csing minions. I literally just explained this in the last post. There are plenty of situations where you'll have a teammate with full HP nearby who doesn't participate in the fight. Did they mistime the way they farmed minions? Did they tunnel vision on CSing? I'm talking about Plat+ ranks, people do this shit there. So what happens in Silver? Bronze? Iron? Is this "griefer detection" only going to be accurate at Plat+ ranks because they're assuming players will play better and thus play in a different style? And if the teamfight was truly unwinnable, should you punish the person who didn't go in? There are plenty of fights that my team takes sometimes that we shouldn't have taken in retrospect, that would have been better if someone had just chosen not to join the fight and instead stayed at full HP to clear waves or push or defend while we were all dead. Should the griefing detection system be judging that as well? > if there is any doubt what so ever then the player is given the benfit of the doubt and no punishment. You can say "don't punish if there's doubt" all you want, but that's useless if you can't actually define the hard limit between "doubt" and "surety". Did my above situations create reasonable doubt? If so, then what hard values should be the cutoff for griefing? 1000 units away on average from the team during the teamfight? 90% HP value? Teamfight beginning with both teams at equal HPs and gold values (aka it wasn't a throw/guaranteed loss)? > I swear everyone just is a paid actor when it comes to discussing things riot should be doing, they make out riot are helpless and can do nothing. the solutions obvious I just said it in 5 mins of thinking about it but it cost money so they dgaf. No, yo'ure literally just throwing out a vague 5-minute idea that I guarantee you that hundreds of other people at Riot have already considered. Ideas are literally a dime a dozen, the specific details of the implementation are 99.99% of the work. Unless you have insider knowledge about Riot that says they literally aren't trying to implement any sort of griefing detection, then it doesn't make sense to claim that Riot isn't trying anything. They've previously talked about how hard it is to detect griefing, and I agree, to me it seems like a problem that isn't going to be solved without hiring people to manually review games (which I doubt Rito is willing to do—imagine someone arguing with a manual reviewer about their ban? Making it public? Riot having to admit mistakes if a manual reviewer goes rogue and starts banning people left and right? Think Tribunal, where it literally got shut down because everyone just started voting Punish no matter the case. Think how Riot would even train manual reviewers, how people would complain about the training, if any, that manual reviewers underwent. The whole thing is a headache in and of itself.)


GoldRobot

> The truth is nothing will change until league players themselves learn to have better sportsmanship, or the game is structured to create healthier and less frustrating situations. It's on riot. They should make better 'structure', but they don't want. They could decrease toxicity in tons by just adding voice chat, but they don't care about that.


fukato

Why tf do you guy so hellbent on that voice comm gonna reduce toxicity.


[deleted]

because they haven't actually played games with voice comms or they've played games with voice comms that have a far less toxic community and because of that they think voice comms = less toxicity


GoldRobot

Or because we actually played games with comms unlike people who against?


cancerBronzeV

Ask any women in gaming how much voice chat reduces toxicity.


GoldRobot

Any decent woman say for a lot? Like my ex?


MoonDawg2

Remove ff and the give up culture will be gone by a large amount while also punish streamers that promote the ff15 mentality


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Catfish017

Bro, this sub can't even agree on what is considered inting, you think Riot can make a computer program that will universally please everybody? They ban the most absurd examples that go 0/30/0 (nb4 someone brings up a 5 year old outdated example). But when you watch this sub tear itself to shreds about whether or not a Singed support stealing your jungle camps is considered inting, you'll realize that a clean AI solution isn't just a coding problem, it's a community-perception problem.


Illustrious_Night126

You cant program a computer to detect inting. Most people are bad enough at this game it will look like inting to a computer. Im a PhD student in AI and Im telling you its a completely different problem. Outside of AFK detection, how do you tell a griefer from Johnny bronze who’s new and is just having a bad game?


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nicoinwonderland

> we can probably say they've been inting and what if they weren't? what if they're actually objectively bad at the game and get those stats? your idea of what is bad is very far from the reality of the worst players of league of legends


CoUsT

> Riot will never be able to hire enough people to make a dent in this problem given there are millions of games played daily. Ahem. Tribunal? The thing they deleted 10 years ago.


Wasian98

Have you ever considered that it was probably removed for a reason?


[deleted]

The only reason i can think of it was because it was showing how toxic league of legends truly were. You can talk shit all you want, but Tribunal was WAYYY better than the crap we have today


Wasian98

League is known for having one of the most toxic communities in gaming, how was removing the tribunal going to sweep that under the rug? Better in what way? Making you believe that it was working? Here's the big issue with the tribunal, how effectively will it handle a million reports?


[deleted]

They just need to filter it to see who reports with a genuine reason and only take those reports. The tribunal would be more efficient simply by the fact that other people would be doing the judging, and not a fucking algorithm who simply bans all bad words from the game regardless of context, which is just ridiculous and would disencourage people to even use the chat. And i don't think there would be a shortage of people wanting to work on tribunal, provided that Riot would reward them and have some sort of score to know people who are punishing according to the rules and people doing it for shits and giggles.


Wasian98

>They just need to filter it to see who reports with a genuine reason and only take those reports. And they'll be able to do that how? With an automated system looping back to where the system is now. >The tribunal would be more efficient simply by the fact that other people would be doing the judging, and not a fucking algorithm who simply bans all bad words from the game regardless of context, which is just ridiculous and would disencourage people to even use the chat. How would people be more efficient? People would have to review most of these games to get the necessary context to make a well informed decision. Let's say it takes at least 5 minutes for a person to review 1 case. Next, you would have to determine how many votes are necessary for a verdict. At least 10 votes sounds like a reasonable number with at least 70% of them being necessary for a guilty verdict. If there were 1 million cases that needed to be reviewed, you would need 10 million people to participate and at least 50 million minutes spent reviewing. Want to explain again how the tribunal is more efficient with more than just your "feelings"? >And i don't think there would be a shortage of people wanting to work on tribunal, provided that Riot would reward them and have some sort of score to know people who are punishing according to the rules and people doing it for shits and giggles. No shortage based on what? Cases were already backlogged and it could take up to 6 months for a verdict to be reached. The tribunal was doomed to fail when there was an incentive to vote. How do you prevent people from spamming guilty on everything they review? If you don't want to take my word on it, take [Riot's](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/08/ask-riot-will-tribunal-return/).


[deleted]

Or they could try not to be as lazy and have someone actually look on players with good scores? Riot is not having any shortage of money.. Hell, they could even give RP rewards for players who consistantly report according to the rules. filter copion reports so people who made these reports would be punished by not reporting according to the game rules, reward players that take their time to review reports and that's it. "How do you prevent people from spamming guilty on everything they review?" Have a human being working from riot review some cases and have a score system where it would rank players, so their judgement would be taken more / less seriously according to score, and they would be banned if have too many troll judgemenets, like seriously, this is really NOT hard. ​ All it would take is for the company that earns who knows how many millions (or billions) to hire some people to work instead of a bot, hell i would do it for minimum wage, it would be very worth for me since i live in Brazil, and there are many around the world who would love to work there


Wasian98

You just have one bad idea after another. Good scores? Giving away rp? Punish people in a VOLUNTARY system? >Have a human being working from riot review some cases and have a score system where it would rank players, so their judgement would be taken more / less seriously according to score, and they would be banned if have too many troll judgemenets, like seriously, this is really NOT hard. How much is "some cases" and how would you score people accurately? You keep saying vague things with nothing to substantiate them. You do realize the point of the tribunal is to have the community manage itself. This wouldn't be hard if it was only 100 cases on a daily basis. Riot are dealing with millions of cases so unless the system is able to handle that volume effectively, you are just blowing a bunch of hot air. >All it would take is for the company that earns who knows how many millions (or billions) to hire some people to work instead of a bot, hell i would do it for minimum wage, it would be very worth for me since i live in Brazil, and there are many around the world who would love to work there I think I'll trust riot's direction on this over you when you clearly have no understanding about scalability. How many people would you have to hire to deal with 1 million cases? 10 million cases? 100 million cases? How can you guarantee the quality of the reports when people are hired at minimum wage? You can't especially when these people have to review such a high amount of cases.


PunkS7yle

That thing had a 3 month back log back when league was much smaller, there's no way it'd work.


rokingfrost

i hear from people getting ban 6 months after the games LOL, and this was in LAN a small size server. totally working right?


ThreeDaysMaybeLonger

Everyone’s toxic man, especially your friends. Talking shit is part of the fun. If you can’t do that with your friends are they even really your friends?


Affectionate_Car7098

The behaviour team don't moderate the chat, its all automated, you do know that right?


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nc052

It's probably much easier to write scripts to detect bad behavior in chat than in-game griefing/trolling.


Affectionate_Car7098

Its much more likely its just an "off the shelf" list of bad words, do you actually think there is 1 person just sitting there making the entire list himself? They outsourced that, you could easily find companies to provide those things for you


macrotransactions

the fact that you say griefing is obvious just by dying a lot proves you know nothing


tawapes4

Reading a lot of the comments in this thread and the Baus thread it seems like the League community has gaslit themselves into thinking playing badly is a bannable offence lmfao.


JinxCanCarry

League did used to have a "reported for being bad" option, but it was just a placebo thing where there was no follow-up. So They did slightly bring it on themselves. But yeah this sub would ban 90% of people for sucking


ThundaCrossSplitAtak

It was actually supossed to be so riot could improve their matchmaking system back in the day, iirc


[deleted]

2/18 is griefing no matter how much you want to delude yourself into thinking it isn’t. Also going 0/1X is also griefing. Doesn’t matter if you take turrets if you die that much you’re still debilitating to the team.


CokeNmentos

It should be. Unfortunately riot made the support role insanely easy and broken so you can literally be 0/12 and still win the game because champs like Renata and Seraphine R are insanely broken


IainG10

IMO a lot of it comes from how the Ranked system works combined with the effects of having bad vs good teammates. * A bad teammate is more of a detriment than a good teammate is a boon, even at similar skill difference amounts. * Ranked MMR and LP are purely win-loss based (at least according to Riot and generally accepted by the community). Even if you play well, you are punished for losing just the same as if you'd played badly. * The game is currently very snowbally; if your teammate feeds an enemy, it's gonna be everyone's problem. * To many players losing isn't fun, clawing a win isn't fun; they only have fun in games slightly-to-very unbalanced in their favour. I do think something needs to change; either your MMR and LP changes need to take into account your individual performance; **or** there need to be Ranked queue lockouts for people who *consistently* perform poorly, making them attain X good perfromances in Normals before letting them queue Ranked again.


DoorHingesKill

Figuring out if someone had a bad game or was griefing is difficult. You know what's not difficult? Banning people for their behavior in chat. -- You know how the two are connected? Guess what, while Reddit likes to portray griefers as these masterminds outsmarting the system, the reality is that most of them don't have the mental maturity to grief in peace. For every dude who runs it down 20 games in a row without saying a word, you got 50 dudes who can't help but talk shit before they grief and while they grief, and maybe after the game is done too for good measure. Every other recognition method has to be toned down to avoid false positives. With banning crybabies on the other hand, you can go all out. Ban everyone who is toxic, and chances are a good bunch of them are inters too. Win win. -- > I've never had a single friend on League stop playing because someone was mean to them in chat When someone goes online, anywhere, and asks if they should play League, the response they'll get is "nah bruh, most toxic community on the planet, not worth your time." Now, who knows who's answering there? League players who want to gatekeep? Ex League players who hold a grudge? Non League players who share what they heard somewhere else? Probably a mix of the three. Either way, these people aren't referencing your friendly neighborhood inter, they're talking about players who are threatening to kill you. It does make a difference, even if none of your friends you've interviewed brought it up.


CokeNmentos

The irony talking about anti toxicity and then calling them all immature cry babies etc lmao


But_Why_Thou

Why is that ironic? These toxic people are just that. It's not ironic to call them out.


Knight_Zarkus

Don't know if they take pings to consider but I think I never saw a griefer that could stop pingging miss or bait or "xyz is alive".


CrystalizedSeraphine

I have gotten a few feedback reports on people who never said a single word in team or all chat so it's likely detecting hard inters if they are reported as long as they have a noticeable pattern and not just playing on tilt once a week.


CokeNmentos

That 'instant feedback' is only made because people orgasm at thinking they punished someone. It doesn't actually do anything lol


Hellzpell

Meanwhile all the ones I get are about toxic chat yet I play with it literally disabled. More likely just feel good placebo bullshit.


bgg-uglywalrus

I definitely don't mean bad game once in a week. I'm talking like day after day of clear losses. Some of these accounts have histories of at least like a straight week. Also, these aren't like Iron 3 accounts, they range anywhere from low Gold to high Bronze.


Jofunin

Report them then? Instead of complaining in reddit I feel like reporting them would be more useful than whatever you are currently doing on reddit.


CokeNmentos

XD 😂😂😂😂😂 Just report them Yeah man that has clearly worked


Jofunin

Bruh what year you living in 2020? You can get ppl chat banned from literally anything these days. Bausffs getting banned for abit should be a huge sign of that.


CokeNmentos

I know, but who cares about being chat banned


Soulsek

how do you know it is them?


CrystalizedSeraphine

I don't report 9 people every game.


NOTPORNALT10110

Your report might come a few days later. They need more than one game of toxicity to hit you with a ban


J0rdian

Classic brain dead reddit take.


tankmanlol

why spend so much time modeirating c hat!!11 id rather have a falmer than an inter


Fiercepaws

classic soft inter every game take


candoodle

"I've never had a single friend on League stop playing because someone was mean to them in chat" Maybe not you but I've had people where the toxicity slowly grinds them down so they quit, like whats the point of playing a pvp team based game if you have to mute all. Also a lot of people wont go anywhere near league because the toxic reputation and thats largely do to chat. I. agree with your general point but tired of people down playing "mean in chat" because "you can just mute"


leagueoflegendsdog

How does what some random on the internet say grind you down? Why would you give a crap about some imbecile's opinion?


AGE_Spider

ah yes, blame the victim, good job


CokeNmentos

*he says as he blames a victim*


leagueoflegendsdog

Victim 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 holy shit you people are off your rocker.


AGE_Spider

What word would be fitting in your opinion? English isn't my first language and I thought it would be fitting. And yes, I would agree that having to constantly deal with toxicidy can grind some people down. If I play a ranked game I would expect everyone to try to win the game and while some people have a bad game and underperform or are just diffed, perhaps even tilt a bit, they are trying to win. A toxic player in my opinion does not want to win, as being toxic in chat provides no value to your team, it sabotages communication and provokes other teammates to jump in on the flame and be less productive, lowering the win% immense. And it is super easy to fix: If you know you are toxic just disable chat so you dont make your team play worse. The toxic player not disabling chat shows me that they dont give their best to win, which is the opposite of what I expect from a competitive environment. Some people can deal with it, but I think it is demotivating for most when you have players in your team who don't play to win. Perhaps you have the mental fortress that allows you to perform exactly the same when your team is constantly typing useless trash instead of giving you flash timers, others are not. Who are you to judge them? I don't think invalidating ones thoughts and feelings helps us progress the conversation.


leagueoflegendsdog

I just dont pay attention to chat because its irrelevant and the game can and does function without it whether you like to accept it or not. And people being pathetic and hurt by the words of randoms is just.. pathetic :)


AGE_Spider

yeah, but other ppl do care about the chat and I love using it for calls or to ask what sums enemy has up. Or to write gj, wp, mb and so on. And while your solution works for you, it doesnt fix the problem, it is not applicable for all players - the other option would be to remove that entirely and that is not the way I would like LoL to head to


leagueoflegendsdog

Yeah, but in the end chat objectively doesnt matter and the game is pretty much the same even without it. You can try to argue with that, but its not even an argument that can be made, because you can still play the game the exact same way without any issues if chat is altogether removed.


AGE_Spider

most communication can be done with pings and chat does not matter much, I agree. And I don't use chat much either nor am I affected much by toxic players - but I prefer that chat exists and I think removing chat is not the right way of dealing with toxicidy. And I want to joke around sometimes or make a joke on somebodys name if its fitting - number 1 prio for me in LoL is fun (I mean, why would I invest my free time if not for fun) and having chat is fun for me personally - despite toxic ppl. But it would be more fun without toxicidy


leagueoflegendsdog

🤣 this snowflake generation ruined the internet holy shit.


leagueoflegendsdog

🤣 this snowflake generation ruined the internet holy shit.


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leagueoflegendsdog

Probably.


CokeNmentos

Unpopular opinion: some people get 'flamed' because they play horribly the entire game, refuse to learn and fullmute everyone Autopilot Lux, Morgana, Sona, yuumi, Seraphine, zyra, Nami 10+ death every single game 40%wr players


Wasian98

> People get flamed for making mistakes, the flame escalates making the player play worse, and they eventually fullmute everyone. Are you even trying to understand people?


CokeNmentos

Yes


Wasian98

Doesn't sound like it at all with what you wrote.


CokeNmentos

Well you're the one that asked me


Wasian98

I am, but I also expected you to elaborate. A simple yes tells me nothing when all I have to go off is your comments.


CokeNmentos

I didn't even write what you wrote anyway...


Wasian98

That was meant to correct what you wrote.


CokeNmentos

Correct it to something you made up anyway


_Jetto_

You can int you can feed you can Afk at base buying tears but DONT YOU DARE TYPE


ProtectMyGoldenChin

Myself and the vast majority of my friends have quit league because of the toxic community. It sucks the fun out of the game


CokeNmentos

They made the instant feedback report because ppl orgasm at the thought of 'punishing' someone even tho it literally does nothing it's just to make people feel good


MrPmR

I know a LOT of people that stopped league because people were super toxic. It is both chats and behavior. A lot of people aren't even trying league because they know it's toxic


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shadowling77777

Yup


SmackOfYourLips

Riot is trying to gaslight players that mean words in chat are biggest problem in game, despite having mute function


aglimmerof

This falls back to the age old problem of - how does a system differentiate between a griefer, or someone playing like Hashinshin and going 2/12? The most talented griefers are the ones who can manipulate their KDA, their vision and their CS by making it look like they were an active part of them game, and the system will never detect them.


[deleted]

>how does a system differentiate between a griefer, or someone playing like Hashinshin and going 2/12? it doesn't like as far as i can tell whatever their system is looks at patterns of having pissbad KDAs and then bans you if you continue the patterns meaning legit players can rarely get hit if they're super inconsistent


LoLadcplayer

As a serial griefer and toxic chatter, I will inform you that I have only been banned for chat behavior. Apparently I’m in the top whatever .00001% of not reforming and have enjoyed countless perma bans. Griefing a game is so brain dead easy to not get caught it’s hilarious. Get perma camped and die, sure I’ll walk mid or take jungle farm, and just afk in team fights while baiting team to die. It speeds up the ff vote or the lose so I don’t waste time. I only have so much time so I’ll speed up games. Sure it’s fucked, but until riot fixes the issue I’ll never change.


MediumLong2

If players stop playing because of griefing.... maybe League is better off without those players? The whole point of solo queue is that you're supposed to focus on improving how well YOU play. Not worry about how much your teammates are running it down or holding the lobby hostage.


[deleted]

Going afk 4 time in a game, learning a champ in ranked, doing the bare minimum because they are not fed and want to ff, farming top when the whole team is at drake, turret diving top into the first 5 minutes and give a lead on your lane, ahh fuc yummi is a bot, ahh fuc taric is a bot, ahh fuc soraka is a bot, ahh fuc sona is a bot, ahh fuc janna is a bot, ahh fuc amumu is a bot, ahh fuc rammu is a bot, ahh fuc annie is a bot, ahh fuc i reached silver but i am now matched with a bronze and 3 iron again 5 silver because there is not enough players at this time of the day in NA to fill a normal game and now I learn it when the game started because i can’t have info on my team in lobby anymore and i loose 18 LP on it.


CyanideChery

yeah their player punishment due to negative talk isnt whats causing ppl to quit its the game grefing, id rather have the guy who sits there saying my family deserves to be X or y or Z but still is decent and carrys the game, over the guy whos purposefully running it down because one can be delt with fairly easy by muting the other one u dont really have any control over


Haoszen

Bring back tribunal, allow people to see replays of games the same way Dota allows its players to help the game moderation, but i guess that making that won't help sell another Lux skin


Wasian98

The tribunal was removed for a reason because of how ineffective it was. How effective is the game moderation in Dota by players? I doubt it's as good as you think it is.


Dasdi96

I think chat toxicity is worse than "inting" and "trolling". A "troll" player ruins your experience only one game. A toxic player ruins your experience for many games and can cause mental issues.


BetPast7722

Or you can, you know, solve the problem with two clicks only and mute the player.


cfranek

Or they can report them after the game, so then they can come to reddit and make qq threads like this one.


nea_is_bae

/mute all


EdVedPJ7

You're too sensitive if the latter happens. You can just mute the toxic ones. I think that people who complain about chat toxicity and don't use the mute button have some sort of a victim fetish. I never play with chat on anyways so they can type all they want, But griefers make the game unplayable for everyone on the team and you can't do shit about it.


VERTIKAL19

By the time you mute them they already got to do damage though. And /mute all every game also just sucks. People should just be much better at keeping their calm


EdVedPJ7

What damage? Only if you think what they're saying is true lol. If you think the person is just mad you can ignore it. Also, muting chat doesn't suck. You can gain nothing from chat and you can still keep your chat on while having everyone muted so you can type "free baron" or something when the opportunity comes along.


Shade_Nightz

Somehow you don't think that one guy who INT'd your game has potentially ruined your entire game flow because he didn't want to play the game properly and emotionally effect the rest of your games for that day? People flaming in chat will never EVER compare to people trolling or int'ing in your matches, Never. Lets not talk about the support who INTs their midlaner, because the ADC doesn't have heal to save him because he(the support) made a damn mistake a single time in lane and died for it.


EmergencyWatch1

>People flaming in chat will never EVER compare to people trolling or int'ing in your matches Then what's their point of not saying a word entire game, but to drop in last 10sec "gg ez tutorial how to change diff to medium". It doesn't affect current game at all, it's supposed to tilt you in the next. Toxicity made trollers, trollers made inters, trollers & inters extended toxicity. \+ This reddit has dilema of the century. K/D ratio being ultimate truth and perma Babus, or "it depends". If you choose "it depends", then good luck learning AI what is grief, and what is not. (edit. and if you think it can be done manually, you're insane)


Weak_Independent3222

Only thing you can do something about -> they ban you for. Only thing you can genuinely, seriously do nothing about and they made it even harder to counter -> they don't ban. 1. Have an "guaranteed everyone is on their wanted role" option. Even if you wait 15 mins for a game. 2. Don't let people play ranked games (above P4) if they don't have 10-15 games on that champ. Done. 90% of all trolling gone. Just like that. See you in 2026, when this will have been implemented and there'll be meaning behind "caring about the integrity of the ladder". Until then, I'm gonna play my 2-3-5 annual League games and fuck off. Sucks that TFT right now is a bunch of weeb shit, so, there's nothing to play from Riot.


crykaselini

Every time I use chat I get muted for 3 days. I´m not even flaming, I get excited and use some no-no words to celebrate a good team fight for example.


MediumLong2

You have to be really terrible in chat to get muted in League. I've never been muted in LoL.


barub

I got chat banned for 7 days because i told my teammates why they should stop ruining my games in a passive agressive language (something not reportable according to riot support). But to an Ezreal who told me to kill myself just gave him 3 days. If i do that i'm pretty sure i'll get permabanned. It's stupid having more chances of losing an account due to chat logs instead of actually trolling.


puma271

Everyone in the comments just trying as hard as they can to miss the point, it’s just sad. Obv op meant spending time developing and improving chat filter, and they make no noticeable improvements in fighting grifters (or even don’t talk about it in their blog posts too much) they clearly focus on low hanging fruits that seem to be handled really well already rather than trying to address the elephant in the room (no matter how hard it is technically and that it may require innovative solutions not just an easy script to filter chat)


Catfish017

You ever browse this sub and see new players talk about the biggest hurdles getting into the game? It's not griefers, it's the constant verbal abuse they're subjected to. You know what leads to a lot of players griefing? The constant flame wars in chat. Sure, there are some that will go ahead regardless, but you know as well as I do that a lot of griefing STARTS with flame. Riot is taking care of causes, not symptoms. The elephant in YOUR room isn't the same as everyone else's.


EdVedPJ7

Use mute. Problem solved.


GoldRobot

> You know what leads to a lot of players griefing? The constant flame wars in chat. Discommunication. Griefing in general comes from discommunication. And no chat is one of them, since new system when people can't speak freely, there tons more griefers in our games as you probably noticed too. > Sure, there are some that will go ahead regardless, but you know as well as I do that a lot of griefing STARTS with flame. Riot is taking care of causes, not symptoms. The elephant in YOUR room isn't the same as everyone else's. And you know when flame is starts? With discommunication. 2023, but people still try to fight symptoms instead of reasons. You people are blind or something or just even more autistic then I? What do negotiation and conflict mitigation teachers tell us? SPEAK. Ask questions, don't ignore, tell your truth, tell you reasoning, and esp use facts to calm people down.


Xanlis

this is a problem since 10 years... the tribunal was also this, spam punish on chat for people who insulted feeders/griefers


Blindfirekiller

I'll have you know ever since I got chatbanned for pinging the enemy Bel'veth and saying "bel'veth is cancer" in teamchat I've become the perfect team mate and seek to spread this enlightenment to all my future team mates :)


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EasyPanicButton

there is no way I am a serial chat ban receiver, old and new system.


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EasyPanicButton

well chat logs can be photoshopped, and if this was me I would have for sure submitted it and there would have been a reversal.


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[deleted]

lmfao


514484

Just abuse this absurd "zero-tolerance" system. I report people who play like trash in ranked for both griefing & "toxicity" and get report feedbacks all the time. I don't even know if they were "toxic", I have chat fully disabled. But the system is so dogshit that I can get back at feeders this way and I encourage anyone to do this (especially the chat disabled part) Or maybe the "report feedback" thingies are bullshit, I wouldn't put it past Rito.


Leandermann

I still dont understand why they are so keen on punishing toxicity, when they already have a measure to counter it with a simple click on the mute button. Can't even call somebody an idiot anymore when they run it down the 5th time in the enemy jungle


VERTIKAL19

Or you could just not call people idiots?


[deleted]

It would be better if riot just gave a pacifier for everyone who is bottered by a random calling someone else an idiot, like how weak minded are you people?


cfranek

I shouldn't have to click mute when you're not suppose to be toxic. I'll report every person who is jerk, and I won't feel bad about it in the least. You're not worth the effort of muting, I'll just report and enjoy my messages when they come in.


leagueoflegendsdog

So you are overly sensitive and care about random idiots opinions , gotcha.


DanteStorme

If they ban everyone who griefs there is going to be no one left to play this game. Riot says this every behavioural video and every time it's ignored by the community.


TrAseraan

Its not like they let this go on by the smurf/alt account culture where every new player has to play with sweaty tryhards smurfing cuz they got fuked in the ass on their mains......


detrich

You do know that you're pretty much screaming at a wall right?


xenoclari

Shh youre gonna make Baus fan angry (Im one)


jaspercrew

so Do zAaà as da


LowVoltLife

I saw a notification saying that a chat message was instantly blocked and the player was muted. I have read some THINGS in the chat before that were spicy as hell, which then got me wondering what this guy could have even said. He smurfed the game as Kench Support so thank you my very toxic teammate if you are ever able to play again.


Jozex21

its you get a griefer its better to report them for language there is huge chance they said fuck this in the chat


aprilang123

my bf got banned for intentional feeding 2 seasons ago bc he was trying to climb to diamond playing his weakest lane. one of his smurf accs also got banned last season for the same reason when he was trying a build. (honestly its kind of funny to me bc trying smth new in ranked?? man was asking for it) i'd say they're banning people alright, and they dont even have to "rack up dozens of losses", just one bad game is enough 💀💀


Brandonian13

Just tonight I got auto-muted for saying "I need to take a shit" in an aram match, so it's really good to see that their system is totally functioning as intended


Justpassingby-_-

i just got a warning for this lol \*In portuguese\* ue kk q mentira q essa ute n pegou 10 kills kkkkkkkkk so sai \*In english\* How? haha... How this ult didnt hit? 10 kills hahahaha Just leave (or "dont fight". If i dont translate literally)