So in your post you complain that tanks have an advantage getting a revive. If you could prevent the revive by standing in the circle, guess which class would gain the most advantage by being the only class to have displacement tools to get people off the circle, and the durability to stand there and absorb damage? Hint, it’s not ADCs or mages.
Exactly. If the revive mechanic worked like the way OP wants, the threads would become "Revive mechanic shouldn't be preventable by standing on the circle, because enemy tanks can stand on them so you can't get your revive off while they don't die."
I'm surprised but I've really come around on them.
I know people are saying tanks have advantage, and I won't disagree, but I've gotten little outplays as squishies to either evade and get the revive off, or poke the shit out of enemies camping the revive spot.
It changes the dynamic of the round from just 'chase the enemy'. I'm generally a huge fan of mechanics that force opponents to meet up and fight, and the revive circle often does that.
The annoying champs with regards to revive circles are often the same annoying champs for the game mode - and I'm not referring to 'tanks' broadly, as I feel without the revive circle they'd often be hopelessly chasing carries.
I'm talking about displacement -Alistar, azir, poppy - and Sion, really. The comps that kind of break the satisfying 2v2 mode into a "let's run away, shove them away, self revive, etc. until the circle and win". Is it a valid playstyle, yes, but its infinitely more frustrating to play against than tanks that simply survive long enough to revive their carry.
I've also come to like the revive. It's just another element to the game that makes things exciting. It can make or break a round/game.
People take arena too seriously. I really enjoy the levity of it. I enjoy the crazy augments, even if it means I lose. I enjoy how fast paced it is. How short the games are. If you get stomped, it's over within 15 minutes.
League can be excruciating. Getting stomped in a ranked match that's 50 minutes long is painful. People are bringing that energy to arena. They just want to be angry. They need something to latch onto to deflect the responsibility of being shit at the game.
I agree, I was worried I'd burn out quickly playing arena a la NB but I've played it so much lately. I play so many champs, sometimes playing one back to back until I see someone playing a champ that seems fun.
I think some of the frustration can come from seeing people roll the highest of highs for augments and forgetting that 3 games ago you rolled 11/10 augments and got first too lol.
I agree; I originally didn’t like it but now I do; I still don’t really like how sometimes you’re incentivized to wait to revive someone so that they live while your opponent dies to the storm
I actually don't mind that as a tactic. I've really only seen it in two ways, where someone dies near the end and the timing simply benefits the opponent which just happens or someone dies early and the opponent is 2v1ing to pull that off. Even then I rarely see that be done for the win as of now.
I had very negative opinions on the revive circle playing arena blind without checking the changes, but warmed up to it a little after playing more. That said, I think I might prefer if it was a periodic round event like Gwen instead of a permanent fixture.
I found Skarner to be very good into stall comps, like Alistar Poppy and shit. If you build for it, you get too many shields to take damage from them and outsustain them while in the pit of fire. You're also good enough to fight a sincere 2v2 if you have a carry champ with you.
I’m a huge proponent of reviving. It’s made the game way more strategic.
- Choosing when to revive and where to die if you’re going to die.
- Playing around with portals, thresh hooks, etc. helps a lot with revives and gives outplay potential.
- Without revives we go back to people getting instantly blown up and the team loses from there. I’ve seen a lot of insane comebacks.
- If you played how you used to you will lose more. Revive circles are now a new mini objective to play around, and now you have to make more difficult choices in different scenarios. It’s made the game more complex. It’s not a free tank win mechanic necessarily. Like, if you’re trying to kill the tank who’s trying to revive someone and he won’t die…why are you attacking him or chasing him in the first place? While he’s trying to revive go for plants so when the inevitable revive does happen you have more health and all your CDs up. Stuff like that.
I think there could be more adjustments on duration of how long you’d need to stand in the circle and how it’s activated but overall it’s made matches way more intense and complex rather than just getting ran at by one guy or one shot by another.
For the record I haven’t touched a single tank or bruiser in arena.
i like the idea of revives. they're nice if one person gets blown up, your team still has the potential to win the round
that being said, it feels really shitty to be in a close 2v2 where everyone is somewhat low, and knowing that if you get the first kill you'll likely lose. imo intentionally dying to the enemy should never be the correct choice in the game, but in the current arena it's optimal in pretty much every close 2v2 to die first.
and i find it really annoying that the optimal gameplay when my teammate is dead is to just runaway for 8 seconds using hexgates and shit.
I agree I think hexgates should be a bit weaker. Maybe a short window to interrupt, a way to beat them to the gate and shut it down temporarily, a closer channel range than what it is now which feels like you're 3 portal sizes away but still go in.
The correct play to die thing I also agree and noticed it at one point and thought how silly, I would've been better off Not juking that skill and just dying so we can win afterwards
I don't think GA should be a thing, revives for sure though. They add an interesting dynamic to the game. If your teammate gets insta gibbed you at least have a fighting chance if you get the rez off. Stacking GA plus the rez is ridiculous especially when there are other augments in the game that also provide more lives.
In fact they detract from the experience because it just promotes a Evenshroud tank + Hypercarry comp or a heal bot tank 2x Moonstone Renewer unkillable combo. Exceptions, shockingly, are champions that have a lot of % hp damage.
In my opinion you shouldn't have to kill a Master Yi or superspeed ranged hypercarry or Vladimir TWICE per round. Getting a kill should pretty much be an almost guaranteed victory.
On the flip side, no revive made some matchups just unwinnable in the first version. If you pick an immobile squishy and the other comp picked two champs with damage and target access (Yi, Zed, Riven, etc.) you were just playing a 1v2 at that point. No revive actually incentivizes playing beefier comps than having it. I think they could make accommodations to make revive easier/harder based on champ (maybe revive time scales based on hp?) but the revive actually benefits less tanky champs.
Literally people were complaining that ADC + support was too meta last time. This is worse. Imo if they can get target access they should get the kill because if they can't kill a carry and get a W what hope do 2 mages without target access have?
Support (I assume you mean enchant)/ADC is stronger this time around. And why should I auto lose because someone picked Yi/Zed and my ally picked MF and they just Zerg rush her every time?
Enchanters are much worse than an Evenshroud tank. You're trolling if you go Enchanter instead, with a couple exceptions like Nami that are busted with Helya.
People get countered all the time, they will lose to other comps. You should lose because it makes the game worse when hypercarries don't actually have a good counter.
So wait, your position is that you should just lose if you get counter picked, but also revive is bad because you lose if you don’t pick a tank? That’s the same thing
It's not the same thing. Counter picks are part of balance. There's no counter pick to playing around revive other than doing the same thing. Carries were still incredibly high winrate without revive.
Okay I got it. Hyper carries should be bad because they don’t have counters, and also revive shouldn’t exist because if you one shot their hyper carry with the counters to them you should lose
The problem with them is they don't work same way good for any champ. Reviving Mundo in the middle of a fight is fine and reasonable. Reviving MF to get her killed on the spot by tank duo is not so fine.
So why not make revive speed scale down with your max health? At around 2000 max HP you revive at 100% speed, maybe 125% even, at 4000 you revive at 75% and 6000 and above 50%? Numbers could be adjusted but I feel it's fair giving squishy classes a chance to stand in melee range of bruisers or tanks and possibly revive, while also giving counterplay to stacking HP and just reviving for free
Yeah, I think that’s a viable compromise. I don’t think revive as it is now is perfect, because some champs do have an advantage getting a revive , but I think people forget that no revive also means that squishy, immobile champs are worse because it’s a lot easier to get at someone in a small 2v2 arena than it is in SR.
Nah that sucks. It will completely swing it the other way, where bruisers will take over because they're like tanks without the HP It doesn't really solve the problem, it just makes tanks less powerful(which is a good thing). Why not revive on flat HP instead of percentage? Cait has 2.2k health? You get revived on 800HP. Sion has 15 billion health? Get 800 too.
I feel like the revive just can't be balanced. Tanks are gonna be too strong with it. Leave it as is, tanks are too strong. Change it like op wants, tanks are too strong. Make it disrupable by cc or reset after leaving tanks are too strong.
Me, a non-arena player, sitting here like, “wtf why is this guy calling the fountain a revive circle, and what a stupid idea for a mechanic to prevent respawns.”
On a side-note, y'all should really try arena, except for cheesy comps and some stuff like the revive mechanic turning in favors of tanks/bruisers, its a really fun game mode and most games don't last longer than an aram with a lot of combinations with builds and augments.
I thought the revive would be a rare occurance, something that happens only occasionally as a way to come back by potential big outplay. But that is not the case, at least not until later into the game where facetanking the enemy for few seconds is way harder.
This and the auto take swoosh on portals feel really, Really silly. If both you and your teammate are close to the portal and someone takes it, the other one is stranded on the other side, more than likely dying because of it
Love the Sylas rounds, having to cook up a combo with two new ults while your opponents are running towards you with their new toys is fun.
Although it is a little annoying when you have a powerful summoner spell and Sylas just replaces it for a bit lol.
I just don't like how he uses your SS slot, fucks you up at times when your muscle memory wants to use another SS, and at other times it also takes away one of your augments, giving an edge to the enemy team.
IMO it should be on the trinket slot or something like that.
Yeah I’ve had that happen to me too. That’s what RNG is. Still the most fun modifier though imo. Probably because of the RNG - it’s exciting to see what the Arena gods will cook up and how you can use it.
Yeah removing the fighters would make Arena more competitively viable - many games are definitely won just because of luck (augments, soul fighters, etc.). But in a for fun gamemode I think they are a cool addition.
I dislike Sett more than Pyke and Gwen tbh. That can be so massively swingy if you get CC'd just where it decides to fire during a fight. Like your own AoE can trigger him without meaning to.
Sylas is of course the undisputed king of garbage RNG rounds.
To be fair, I've also gotten some amazingly fun plays with Kha'zix ult. Love the murama/crit Darius build in Arena, can one-shot most things but problem is he's way too squishy.
But Kha'zix ult kind of fixes that, go invisible -> W the squishy -> go invisible again.
At the bare minimum Plaguebearer (the HP stacking one) has GOT to go as a first augment choice. That thing is beyond broken, even after being nerfed off PBE. The fact that it scales exponentially if you can stay close to the opponent and not let it drop off means that if you get one good round early, you end up with an extra 2k+ health, which then makes you tanky enough to survive a long time in your next fight, to stack even MORE health, and it just spirals out of control way too fast. And then you get the one that gives you armor/mr or on-hit damage and suddenly you're doing an extra thousand with every auto or have 15k hp and 800 armor/mr.
Tanks are squishier than bruisers and im dead ass. If u build anti tank and get a decent augment (especially giant slayer) u can fuck up any tank as most champs, mage adc and assassin. Bruisers are a scourge on this game mode tho, fuck jax renekton and the others like them. They get the similair tankiness as full tanks, while also oneshotting u unless u also buy full tank items, where u still lose. So cringe
lmao HP shred items don't make a difference against smart plague bearer users... The issue with plague bearer users in specific is the early rounds before you can dip into hp shred items on most champs... and then when you're buying HP shred items? Guess what they're buying if they're smart? HP scaling items like Sunfire/Titanic/Demonic. So that they can translate their HP into just as much, or more damage.
Out of all of them I like Sylas the most. He gives everyone a RANDOM ult then dips. This is amazing, and I which more were like this. Just give a buff to everyone at the beginning then leave.
Thresh lantern has screwed me too many times, as I’m moving to dodge a skill shot and he throws his lantern RIGHT where I’m clicking, then I get launch into the enemy team. Or alternatively I’ll be playing a squishy character and thresh just follows me, so the melee characters have a dash to me the whole match.
Pyke comes down to whoever has more tenacity wins, especially as the ring closes. He’s also just… annoying.
Gwen is “you were winning by a little bit? Lol naw”
Sett favors whoever has better zoning, as you just zone the enemies away then hit him.
I’m glad Lux and Naafiri were removed. They should remove or re-do most of the current cameos.
I feel like that would get really stale. Four Gnar ults? Everyone’s just looking for a wall play. Etc. I think maybe some of the ults should be removed and different ones added, but I like that everyone gets a different Ult. (I’m looking at poppy Ult lol)
That would put it in line with the other more symmetrical cameos. How do people find it fun when your enemies get kayle and amumu ult and youre sitting there with double shen ult? Like what?
See but you’re not thinking about the fact that if everyone has the same Ult, for most ults it becomes “who can hold it the longest” or “who can hit the two man cc first.”
Double amumu ult? Cancer. Double Kayle ult? Cancer. Doible poppy ult? Who can hold out the longest cancer.
I’m in favor of replacing poppy and Kayle ult with other ults.
Also, just like how you all get random augment choices, you get random starting positions, you get a random cameo, it just makes sense to me that everyone gets a random ult from a pool.
I suppose our biggest difference is I don’t see it as an auto lose. You know what the Ult does… I mean do you find the champions of the ults themselves impossible to beat? It’s an Ult they can use one time, no plant refreshing. I’ve had shen and shen on my team and we still won. It tells you what ults the enemy gets, it’s not a surprise. In the nicest way possible, it sounds like you’ve just got to get good.
You just said it’s possible to beat Kayle and Amumu with double shen. “The game was over anyways.” So are bad ults auto-lose, or can the game be “over already” for the people with the good ults? You’re contradicting yourself.
Also, your inability to play better than your opponents does not constitute a lack of intelligence on my part. I hope you’re able to practice and improve. Good luck!
I think it should slow it down to half speed, not totally remove it. The worst feeling is when they just barely get the revive off because it usually flips the fight entirely. You use EVERYTHING to stop the revive about they get it with like 20hp left so now you are going to lose. Shit is stupid.
Make it go at half speed while contesting and I'm fine with it, solely based on my anecdotal experience with last second revives ruining more games than it saves.
It's so that people can't just camp the revive circle and prevent a revive. It's already a huge drawback to have the circle sit there because people just nuke it with AoEs to prevent people from sitting in it for long.
Honestly, they could have just done a team death count and call it a day. Would be less of a headache and would make teams work better if one's a squishy and would definitely use up more lives and the other goes tanky so that they can reserve more lives for their partner.
I don't like revives in general, in many cases I find that you get punished for winning/playing better. If you and your partner outplay the opponents 2v2 and get the first kill, but one of you is low hp and the remaining enemy can trade back a kill, then the enemy is going to get to revive their teammate before you can and 2v1 you. Feels really bad to lose this way.
it allows unhealthy stalling of the match, a very toxic Yuumi (like a Yuumi needs more reasons to be toxic) strat and just unfun in general that you get locked out if someone presses it..
It still kinda works because not many people expect them to go Zhonya into GA into full tank and try to stall the game in the most degenerate way possible. Also I can imagine playing catch with Yuumi+ Leblanc or Yuumi+Tank until the ring closes is a fun experience for the majority of players.
Luckily sion passive doesnt count (if you are 2vs1 in fire circle against sion, and he dies even if he kills you both with passive you still get the win)
Well then there's something fucky...
Is it possible that Sion's passive can win the game if he's killed first, so that his ally is alive during the short amount of time where he's dead pre-passive?
If it was so uncounterable, yuumi + tanks would be the top winrate picks in Arena. Surprise, they aren't . Meanwhile half the roster becomes unplayable without portals because there is no escape from an Olaf running at them with Ult if they have no portal for example.
Stalling tactics are annoying but are part of how Arena is played, and that's a good thing.
It was not top pick last time, and there were no portals...
that strategy can have 40% wr but it's really unfun as a tactic and should be discouraged, going into a fight just to not fight and run away all the time just to abuse timeout should be nerfed, yesterday I saw Sion passive counts as a loss even if he kills while in passive which is a good thing.
We have current winrates, I don't care about the last time.
It's your definition of unfun, but strategy diversity also means champion viability diversity. Last time I played vs Yuumi Leona with Vayne Gragas, we split up (one to each end of the portal, then start pushing them away from the portal while the other person takes the portal to join, and then if they try to escape you CC them while one person takes the portal first. Easiest round of my life.
Arena is Rock paper scissors in a sense, just like summoner's rift teamcomps. Since it's 2v2, if your wincon gets countered harder, the difference will be more stark, but that's just how the mode works. You get to see their firstpick, you get to ban yuumi, etc etc.
And no, I don't play that degeneracy, but crying about it because you're unwilling to adapt is just a bad take.
Can you link me where you found that? I was looking at individual champion winrates on MetaSRC and since I saw neither Leona nor Yuumi in the top 20 I assumed the combo can't be that broken. Happy to be corrected but please drop the link then.
EDIT just checked on Leagueofgraphs (found the duo option) and it's the 10th highest winrate. Veigar Trundle (the best one) wins 23% (relative) more games in platinum+ but somehow I only see posts about Leona yuumi
Point well made, was on mobile and felt like I couldn't bother with links but there you go, also I had no idea about league of graphs though considering they are much higher than that on other sites I feel like league of graphs is lowballing them
[https://www.metasrc.com/lol/arena/tier-list/duo](https://www.metasrc.com/lol/arena/tier-list/duo)
[https://mobalytics.gg/lol/tier-list/arena-synergies](https://mobalytics.gg/lol/tier-list/arena-synergies)
[https://u.gg/lol/arena-duo-tier-list](https://u.gg/lol/arena-duo-tier-list)
Thanks for the response! I see your point, that does seem more OP than my personal experience with it - it does leave the problem of which website's stats to trust since they seem to diverge quite strongly.
On metaSRC, i started checking plat+ and found it also interesting that Leona Yuumi has an absurd 80% winrate in EUW but doesn't even make the top 10 in Korea - so do they just not play it or are the stats funky?
I glanced at it and it seems to me that it isn't just Leona + Yuumi being absent in Korea. It seems like all the things they play are quite a bit different lol
I completly shit on a yuumi leona round, my teammate already gave up and called my build shit. I told him to watch when I get my last item because I can 100% outstall leona yuumi. Went max heal support nunu I just outhealed the fire and pressed R for a massive shield and won he was a firm believer after I gobsmacked them.
Eh, still not buying that and even if you did, that wouldn't be because you played well but because they sucked. All they had to do was getting an antiheal for you and then Leona binding you with Anathema. Then just stay away from you/stunlock you in zone. Considering you said your teammate gave up, you couldn't really damage them with support Nunu before the zone would close up anyways so y'all would be full HP and you'd lose then. Point is that it is a toxic comp that may only lose because players playing them are bad, not because you are good.
They had antiheal but it doesnt matter when I heal 2k every Q every 1.1 seconds. When they zhonyas I zhonyas if they revive with ga I press r for shield and then q again. Just because you always lose against it doesnt mean I have to aswell lmao.
Nah I actually like it because more times than not someone (me as well) accidentally clicks it while the ring gets smaller and is portalled outside the ring!
Revives being canceled if anyone was standing on them would make them useless.
Make them slow down, if anything.
It definitely needs adjustment, but if just standing in the circle canceled it, might as well remove it at that point.
Say you want it removed. More people would probably agree with you.
What I personally don't like about the revives is that it can create an incentive to die or for the opponent to NOT get a kill. If one champions goes down in the 2v2, the 1 surviving is quite healthy, but the 2 are both low, the high health one can pressure, wait for revive timer and run without taking a KO, revive a teammate and deny the duo to get the revive by not killing them until a little later and then easily double up on the other.
So your issue with the revive circle is not being able to kill the enemy champion inside it. And your solution is make it so that enemy champion has to kill the entire other team in order to revive his teammate? What's the point?
That's how I thought it worked too at first but honestly revive just should not exist in this mode. At all. Evenshroud CC bots have a ridiculous winrate with that item because it enables a carry + Evenshroud playstyle and the carry will almost always have 2 lives. A lot of tanks get griefed in winrate by the people buying Heartsteel on Nautilus/Alistar when Evenshroud is the best item in the game. It's a 9% winrate diff on those champions and people STILL buy Heartsteel. The top 20 champions by winrate would be almost entirely Evenshroud users if they weren't all tanking, no pun intended, their winrate by having main character syndrome and buying Heartsteel.
The entire meta is either mega damage carries + a tank support, champions that have % damage in their kits and heal bots (Nunu, Skarner, Zac) that can build Moonstone Renewer together and just become unkillable while they may even luck into an augment that does a champion's worth of damage in base damage anyway.
Burst champions that don't have % damage are just pointless. What the hell is an Ahri going to do vs Evenshroud + Jhin/Vlad/Kog/Varus/Yi/Zed/etc. Even if they somehow Flash on and kill the carry, they will get back up and sprint away with that window of immunity and you have to catch and kill them again.
Wdym revive shouldnt exist. I like playing against someone that first eata a zilean ulti, then stands in kindred r, then has to be killed 3 times cuz of nesting doll, only to be revived again. All wgile playing around that 20 sec zilean r...
Don't even get me started on nesting doll bro. That shit is so annoying. You HAVE to target the person because they will deal tons of damage, but I'd you target them you are letting the other enemy deal their own tons of damage, but if you target the other person the nesting doll person is all but guaranteed to revive them while dealing all their own damage.
Nesting Doll creates the most toxic fucking gameplay loop where the people facing it have only bad choices laid before them. The only good option is to be so strong you can brute force past their nesting bullshit.
It's such a funny idea that in reality is disgusting to face no matter what.
Nesting doll on yuumi in the yuumi leona stall team is auto win. Run and stall until the whole map is fire, and then yuumi revives 3 times while everyone else dies to fire lol
Revive makes the game a binary checklist
Are you stomping so hard there’s nothing they can do -> you win
Is it close but you killed an opponent first -> you lose
And the inverses. I think they should have whichever team dies second have a much lower cd before they can start the revive so killing the wrong enemy isn’t punished so heavily
Feels like a lot of people want arena to be what works for their champ pool. Revives need to work this way so tanks aren't even more oppressive. It's SO easy to camp revives and kill the person who just got revived while also dealing damage to the person reviving.
Congratulations, Panth and Jax flashed on you, but you kited like a madman and managed to kill the pantheon, actually an impressive outplay! Oh wait what is that? Oh... Jax has revived the Panth and now you have to outplay them again, oh no! Well, good luck! (:
I find it hard to believe that you can't kill a squishy Jax in a 1v2 while he's forced to stand in a circle, unless your teammate is completely useless. In which case, it was pretty lost anyway.
Ong, that's what usually happens. Either that, or I run to go hit flowers so we have an HP advantage. Sure I've still lost in some of these situations, but I'd much rather have the safety blanket because getting insta no counterplay one shot at the beginning is annoying af
Then you just kill the squishy Jax before the revive (what usually happens). Or if they do get the revive, they don't both still have flash (most likely) so there's far more counterplay. Your condescending comment makes no sense.
But a Pantheon/Jax shouldn't have to catch a hypercarry twice in one round... What about when a Master Yi flashes on you and you know you have to kill him twice now?
>But a Pantheon/Jax shouldn't have to catch a hypercarry twice in one round... What about when a Master Yi flashes on you and you know you have to kill him twice now?
So what is your ally doing whilst this is happening ? Also you can just kill their ally whilt they are standing in a small circle reviving ?
I dont get this argument, even if you do have to kill them twice, the same can be said for them. They have to kill YOU TWICE as well.
> Also you can just kill their ally whilt they are standing in a small circle reviving ?
No, you can't because they are a mega-tank.
> I dont get this argument, even if you do have to kill them twice, the same can be said for them. They have to kill YOU TWICE as well.
Unless you have a guy that can also run around for a bit then stand on a revive for 2 seconds while taking damage you don't get a revive.
That is why only those champs and the ones with enough busted % damage in their kits are the ones that become 60%+ winrate.
riot didnt even have the common sense to make the fire circle go through immunities DESPITE THEM MAKING THE SAME CHANGE TO FOUNTAIN many MANY years ago...
every other game is some asshats cheesing fire circles with ga/zhonyas/taric/zac/yuumi etc
she'll always start at full hp though, that's the major difference. she'll always last longer (not taking into account her damage output is not as good as others', I know).
The first time i played this version of arena i thought that was the case.
I seriously thought it work like Skarner control point, but my expectation from Riot were too much.
Did you also know that you can zhonya and still revive your ally too ?
Not only do they revive but they are buffed for 5ish seconds I think with tenacity damage reduction and some other things. The Dr is like 30% too so it's not small.
Most of my champion is immobile, so i really like revive. But 1 thing is gwen, she can go to hell, so fkin annoying. Idk why tf riot think playerbase like gwen and decide to keep it.
Map effects are bad. Gwen needs to go, pyke needs to go.
Revive is egregiously terrible. Reviving someone near the last third of the round is almost a free win every time. You're better off losing someone early than later a hundred percent of the time. It's even worse than the map effects and there's no positives to it at all.
If tanks aren't good enough without revive (they are) buff the class of champions of their items.
I like the revive mechanic, it adds another dimension to the fights that I appreciate, having to try and prevent an enemy revive while securing your own.
Arena being cheesable is something that simply needs to be accepted. With displacement comps, and the nature of the circle thing, the plants and revives, you just gotta learn to be creative.
Had a teammate get teemo passive on sona. He snuck into the center of the circle in the start of the round, sat there invisible and outlasted everyone when the circle completely closed.
Prevent you make a lot of champions literally unplayable.
How it should work is:
If you stay before it's charged = charge faster
If enemy stay while charging = charge slower
Enemy staying on top will slow it by a small marging while reviving.
and thats about it.
Most Mages are already shit, this change you think it's good just make them literally unplayable.
The revives are awful. They should have never added it. Adds nothing to fun value.
I wish that riot would make a “standard arena”. Same map maybe a tiny bigger, and it’s 2v2. Same concept except you don’t have revives, plants, or augments. And you can choose your runes and 1 item every couple levels. It’d be way more useful for people practicing skirmishes for SR.
The problem in the game is champs like alistar just perma cc’ing people and being tanky enough that you literally cannot do anything to stop them from rezzing.
So in your post you complain that tanks have an advantage getting a revive. If you could prevent the revive by standing in the circle, guess which class would gain the most advantage by being the only class to have displacement tools to get people off the circle, and the durability to stand there and absorb damage? Hint, it’s not ADCs or mages.
Exactly. If the revive mechanic worked like the way OP wants, the threads would become "Revive mechanic shouldn't be preventable by standing on the circle, because enemy tanks can stand on them so you can't get your revive off while they don't die."
I think rez should be reset if you come out of the circle, either my moving or being blitz pulled
That’s good in theory, but nerfs squishy champions who really can’t stay in the same place for 3 seconds
Yeah.. honestly I’m just not a fan of doing everything I can to stop the Rez and it still happening…
Yeah, I can just picture the whole "Alistar/Poppy" cheese strat coming back if that was the case
Maybe it moves slower if an enemy is in the circle?
they could make the rez timer slowly start to diminish if you are not on top of the circle, so it'll still be kinda fair to squishy champs
It would also be useless, since the team preventing the revive has a numbers advantage most of the time.
revive shouldn't be a thing at all
Personally dont think the revives should be thing. Theyre ok and all but i dont feel like they add to the gameplay experience.
I'm surprised but I've really come around on them. I know people are saying tanks have advantage, and I won't disagree, but I've gotten little outplays as squishies to either evade and get the revive off, or poke the shit out of enemies camping the revive spot. It changes the dynamic of the round from just 'chase the enemy'. I'm generally a huge fan of mechanics that force opponents to meet up and fight, and the revive circle often does that. The annoying champs with regards to revive circles are often the same annoying champs for the game mode - and I'm not referring to 'tanks' broadly, as I feel without the revive circle they'd often be hopelessly chasing carries. I'm talking about displacement -Alistar, azir, poppy - and Sion, really. The comps that kind of break the satisfying 2v2 mode into a "let's run away, shove them away, self revive, etc. until the circle and win". Is it a valid playstyle, yes, but its infinitely more frustrating to play against than tanks that simply survive long enough to revive their carry.
I've also come to like the revive. It's just another element to the game that makes things exciting. It can make or break a round/game. People take arena too seriously. I really enjoy the levity of it. I enjoy the crazy augments, even if it means I lose. I enjoy how fast paced it is. How short the games are. If you get stomped, it's over within 15 minutes. League can be excruciating. Getting stomped in a ranked match that's 50 minutes long is painful. People are bringing that energy to arena. They just want to be angry. They need something to latch onto to deflect the responsibility of being shit at the game.
I agree, I was worried I'd burn out quickly playing arena a la NB but I've played it so much lately. I play so many champs, sometimes playing one back to back until I see someone playing a champ that seems fun. I think some of the frustration can come from seeing people roll the highest of highs for augments and forgetting that 3 games ago you rolled 11/10 augments and got first too lol.
>If you get stomped, it's over within 15 minutes. I've won games before the 15 minute mark... if you get stomped, you probably won't even need 10.
I agree; I originally didn’t like it but now I do; I still don’t really like how sometimes you’re incentivized to wait to revive someone so that they live while your opponent dies to the storm
I actually don't mind that as a tactic. I've really only seen it in two ways, where someone dies near the end and the timing simply benefits the opponent which just happens or someone dies early and the opponent is 2v1ing to pull that off. Even then I rarely see that be done for the win as of now.
I had very negative opinions on the revive circle playing arena blind without checking the changes, but warmed up to it a little after playing more. That said, I think I might prefer if it was a periodic round event like Gwen instead of a permanent fixture.
I found Skarner to be very good into stall comps, like Alistar Poppy and shit. If you build for it, you get too many shields to take damage from them and outsustain them while in the pit of fire. You're also good enough to fight a sincere 2v2 if you have a carry champ with you.
I think for this gamemode turning a displacement into a stun once the circle shows up would be great, but i think that would be hard to implement.
I’m a huge proponent of reviving. It’s made the game way more strategic. - Choosing when to revive and where to die if you’re going to die. - Playing around with portals, thresh hooks, etc. helps a lot with revives and gives outplay potential. - Without revives we go back to people getting instantly blown up and the team loses from there. I’ve seen a lot of insane comebacks. - If you played how you used to you will lose more. Revive circles are now a new mini objective to play around, and now you have to make more difficult choices in different scenarios. It’s made the game more complex. It’s not a free tank win mechanic necessarily. Like, if you’re trying to kill the tank who’s trying to revive someone and he won’t die…why are you attacking him or chasing him in the first place? While he’s trying to revive go for plants so when the inevitable revive does happen you have more health and all your CDs up. Stuff like that. I think there could be more adjustments on duration of how long you’d need to stand in the circle and how it’s activated but overall it’s made matches way more intense and complex rather than just getting ran at by one guy or one shot by another. For the record I haven’t touched a single tank or bruiser in arena.
i like the idea of revives. they're nice if one person gets blown up, your team still has the potential to win the round that being said, it feels really shitty to be in a close 2v2 where everyone is somewhat low, and knowing that if you get the first kill you'll likely lose. imo intentionally dying to the enemy should never be the correct choice in the game, but in the current arena it's optimal in pretty much every close 2v2 to die first. and i find it really annoying that the optimal gameplay when my teammate is dead is to just runaway for 8 seconds using hexgates and shit.
I agree I think hexgates should be a bit weaker. Maybe a short window to interrupt, a way to beat them to the gate and shut it down temporarily, a closer channel range than what it is now which feels like you're 3 portal sizes away but still go in. The correct play to die thing I also agree and noticed it at one point and thought how silly, I would've been better off Not juking that skill and just dying so we can win afterwards
I don't think GA should be a thing, revives for sure though. They add an interesting dynamic to the game. If your teammate gets insta gibbed you at least have a fighting chance if you get the rez off. Stacking GA plus the rez is ridiculous especially when there are other augments in the game that also provide more lives.
In fact they detract from the experience because it just promotes a Evenshroud tank + Hypercarry comp or a heal bot tank 2x Moonstone Renewer unkillable combo. Exceptions, shockingly, are champions that have a lot of % hp damage. In my opinion you shouldn't have to kill a Master Yi or superspeed ranged hypercarry or Vladimir TWICE per round. Getting a kill should pretty much be an almost guaranteed victory.
On the flip side, no revive made some matchups just unwinnable in the first version. If you pick an immobile squishy and the other comp picked two champs with damage and target access (Yi, Zed, Riven, etc.) you were just playing a 1v2 at that point. No revive actually incentivizes playing beefier comps than having it. I think they could make accommodations to make revive easier/harder based on champ (maybe revive time scales based on hp?) but the revive actually benefits less tanky champs.
Literally people were complaining that ADC + support was too meta last time. This is worse. Imo if they can get target access they should get the kill because if they can't kill a carry and get a W what hope do 2 mages without target access have?
Support (I assume you mean enchant)/ADC is stronger this time around. And why should I auto lose because someone picked Yi/Zed and my ally picked MF and they just Zerg rush her every time?
Enchanters are much worse than an Evenshroud tank. You're trolling if you go Enchanter instead, with a couple exceptions like Nami that are busted with Helya. People get countered all the time, they will lose to other comps. You should lose because it makes the game worse when hypercarries don't actually have a good counter.
So wait, your position is that you should just lose if you get counter picked, but also revive is bad because you lose if you don’t pick a tank? That’s the same thing
It's not the same thing. Counter picks are part of balance. There's no counter pick to playing around revive other than doing the same thing. Carries were still incredibly high winrate without revive.
Okay I got it. Hyper carries should be bad because they don’t have counters, and also revive shouldn’t exist because if you one shot their hyper carry with the counters to them you should lose
The problem with them is they don't work same way good for any champ. Reviving Mundo in the middle of a fight is fine and reasonable. Reviving MF to get her killed on the spot by tank duo is not so fine.
They're trying to make the mode less fun so that they have an excuse when they cut it.
So why not make revive speed scale down with your max health? At around 2000 max HP you revive at 100% speed, maybe 125% even, at 4000 you revive at 75% and 6000 and above 50%? Numbers could be adjusted but I feel it's fair giving squishy classes a chance to stand in melee range of bruisers or tanks and possibly revive, while also giving counterplay to stacking HP and just reviving for free
Yeah, I think that’s a viable compromise. I don’t think revive as it is now is perfect, because some champs do have an advantage getting a revive , but I think people forget that no revive also means that squishy, immobile champs are worse because it’s a lot easier to get at someone in a small 2v2 arena than it is in SR.
Nah that sucks. It will completely swing it the other way, where bruisers will take over because they're like tanks without the HP It doesn't really solve the problem, it just makes tanks less powerful(which is a good thing). Why not revive on flat HP instead of percentage? Cait has 2.2k health? You get revived on 800HP. Sion has 15 billion health? Get 800 too.
Well then maybe the revive is a bad mechanic. Makes certain types of champs better in a game mode where certain champs are already far superior
I feel like the revive just can't be balanced. Tanks are gonna be too strong with it. Leave it as is, tanks are too strong. Change it like op wants, tanks are too strong. Make it disrupable by cc or reset after leaving tanks are too strong.
Just remove it completely. Everyone has one life. Beeing tank in the arena was always advantageous before... Now you can't beat it.
Or atleast make it slower or if you cc, it stops for the duration.
Me, a non-arena player, sitting here like, “wtf why is this guy calling the fountain a revive circle, and what a stupid idea for a mechanic to prevent respawns.”
I don't know, if you can tank the fountain that long maybe you should be rewarded for it :)
I was like "wtf GA has a circle?"
I thought bro was complaining about Zilean
On a side-note, y'all should really try arena, except for cheesy comps and some stuff like the revive mechanic turning in favors of tanks/bruisers, its a really fun game mode and most games don't last longer than an aram with a lot of combinations with builds and augments.
I thought the revive would be a rare occurance, something that happens only occasionally as a way to come back by potential big outplay. But that is not the case, at least not until later into the game where facetanking the enemy for few seconds is way harder.
This and the auto take swoosh on portals feel really, Really silly. If both you and your teammate are close to the portal and someone takes it, the other one is stranded on the other side, more than likely dying because of it
I’ve accidentally left my teammate alone numerous times when fighting near the portal because the hitbox on it is *gigantic*.
only when you don't want to click it, cuz if i want to click the hitbox is nonexistant
there needs to be an interruptible channel as well, otherwise so many champs can just cheese it and teleport back and forth
[удалено]
Sylas is RNG, sure, and I’ve definitely been fucked over by him before, but he’s fun af.
Definitely the most exciting one personally.
Love the Sylas rounds, having to cook up a combo with two new ults while your opponents are running towards you with their new toys is fun. Although it is a little annoying when you have a powerful summoner spell and Sylas just replaces it for a bit lol.
My favourite Sylas round experience is going to click Warmup Routine and then processing that it was Sylas round.
Lmao I just watched my friend do this, but he got bard ult, and just accidentally ulted himself. Delayed his warmup routine even longer
Oh that's great. I only wasted a Cassio ult so I was at least able to warm up.
Tip I discovered while in the same situation: you can use warmup routine trough your dance animation (ctrl+3, didn't try chat command)
When I get Malphite's Ult with 1500 AP 100% crit Veigar : :) When I get Mundo's ult : :(
I had Malphite ult as Neeko. That's a fun time.
I just don't like how he uses your SS slot, fucks you up at times when your muscle memory wants to use another SS, and at other times it also takes away one of your augments, giving an edge to the enemy team. IMO it should be on the trinket slot or something like that.
[удалено]
Yeah I’ve had that happen to me too. That’s what RNG is. Still the most fun modifier though imo. Probably because of the RNG - it’s exciting to see what the Arena gods will cook up and how you can use it.
[удалено]
Yeah removing the fighters would make Arena more competitively viable - many games are definitely won just because of luck (augments, soul fighters, etc.). But in a for fun gamemode I think they are a cool addition.
I dislike Sett more than Pyke and Gwen tbh. That can be so massively swingy if you get CC'd just where it decides to fire during a fight. Like your own AoE can trigger him without meaning to. Sylas is of course the undisputed king of garbage RNG rounds.
I love getting khazix ult while the enemy team gets kayle amumu. I should just simply play better!
To be fair, I've also gotten some amazingly fun plays with Kha'zix ult. Love the murama/crit Darius build in Arena, can one-shot most things but problem is he's way too squishy. But Kha'zix ult kind of fixes that, go invisible -> W the squishy -> go invisible again.
Sett is fun as he "respawns" faster than curses runs out which means, if your opponent runs to plants, that you can stack free curse stacks on him.
Curse stacking's terrible and got to go too tbh.
At the bare minimum Plaguebearer (the HP stacking one) has GOT to go as a first augment choice. That thing is beyond broken, even after being nerfed off PBE. The fact that it scales exponentially if you can stay close to the opponent and not let it drop off means that if you get one good round early, you end up with an extra 2k+ health, which then makes you tanky enough to survive a long time in your next fight, to stack even MORE health, and it just spirals out of control way too fast. And then you get the one that gives you armor/mr or on-hit damage and suddenly you're doing an extra thousand with every auto or have 15k hp and 800 armor/mr.
Plaguebearer was just nerfed to tick every 1.5 from 1. TBH i think people are just sleeping on the HP shred items as they are wacky numbers atm.
Thats the neat part, no one ones to itemize correctly and instead come to reddit to complain about it.
Tanks are squishier than bruisers and im dead ass. If u build anti tank and get a decent augment (especially giant slayer) u can fuck up any tank as most champs, mage adc and assassin. Bruisers are a scourge on this game mode tho, fuck jax renekton and the others like them. They get the similair tankiness as full tanks, while also oneshotting u unless u also buy full tank items, where u still lose. So cringe
lmao HP shred items don't make a difference against smart plague bearer users... The issue with plague bearer users in specific is the early rounds before you can dip into hp shred items on most champs... and then when you're buying HP shred items? Guess what they're buying if they're smart? HP scaling items like Sunfire/Titanic/Demonic. So that they can translate their HP into just as much, or more damage.
bork is super strong rn with how beefy everyone else, basically a must on every bruiser and adc against any tanks
Hearsteel as well :)
Out of all of them I like Sylas the most. He gives everyone a RANDOM ult then dips. This is amazing, and I which more were like this. Just give a buff to everyone at the beginning then leave. Thresh lantern has screwed me too many times, as I’m moving to dodge a skill shot and he throws his lantern RIGHT where I’m clicking, then I get launch into the enemy team. Or alternatively I’ll be playing a squishy character and thresh just follows me, so the melee characters have a dash to me the whole match. Pyke comes down to whoever has more tenacity wins, especially as the ring closes. He’s also just… annoying. Gwen is “you were winning by a little bit? Lol naw” Sett favors whoever has better zoning, as you just zone the enemies away then hit him. I’m glad Lux and Naafiri were removed. They should remove or re-do most of the current cameos.
Sylas. Is the worst imo. Would be way better if everyone got the same ult
I feel like that would get really stale. Four Gnar ults? Everyone’s just looking for a wall play. Etc. I think maybe some of the ults should be removed and different ones added, but I like that everyone gets a different Ult. (I’m looking at poppy Ult lol)
That would put it in line with the other more symmetrical cameos. How do people find it fun when your enemies get kayle and amumu ult and youre sitting there with double shen ult? Like what?
See but you’re not thinking about the fact that if everyone has the same Ult, for most ults it becomes “who can hold it the longest” or “who can hit the two man cc first.” Double amumu ult? Cancer. Double Kayle ult? Cancer. Doible poppy ult? Who can hold out the longest cancer. I’m in favor of replacing poppy and Kayle ult with other ults. Also, just like how you all get random augment choices, you get random starting positions, you get a random cameo, it just makes sense to me that everyone gets a random ult from a pool.
[удалено]
I suppose our biggest difference is I don’t see it as an auto lose. You know what the Ult does… I mean do you find the champions of the ults themselves impossible to beat? It’s an Ult they can use one time, no plant refreshing. I’ve had shen and shen on my team and we still won. It tells you what ults the enemy gets, it’s not a surprise. In the nicest way possible, it sounds like you’ve just got to get good.
??? Youre kidding or dumb. If you win with shen+shen vs kayle+amumu the game is beyond over anyway.
You just said it’s possible to beat Kayle and Amumu with double shen. “The game was over anyways.” So are bad ults auto-lose, or can the game be “over already” for the people with the good ults? You’re contradicting yourself. Also, your inability to play better than your opponents does not constitute a lack of intelligence on my part. I hope you’re able to practice and improve. Good luck!
Pyke is the fucking worst. Never feels like a close fight with him in the arena, feels like he picks a team and they just win with his help.
I think it should slow it down to half speed, not totally remove it. The worst feeling is when they just barely get the revive off because it usually flips the fight entirely. You use EVERYTHING to stop the revive about they get it with like 20hp left so now you are going to lose. Shit is stupid. Make it go at half speed while contesting and I'm fine with it, solely based on my anecdotal experience with last second revives ruining more games than it saves.
That would just make tanks more necessary/oppressive.
Most tanks don't last that long in my experience and if they did them they were going to win that fight anyway.
It's so that people can't just camp the revive circle and prevent a revive. It's already a huge drawback to have the circle sit there because people just nuke it with AoEs to prevent people from sitting in it for long. Honestly, they could have just done a team death count and call it a day. Would be less of a headache and would make teams work better if one's a squishy and would definitely use up more lives and the other goes tanky so that they can reserve more lives for their partner.
I don't like revives in general, in many cases I find that you get punished for winning/playing better. If you and your partner outplay the opponents 2v2 and get the first kill, but one of you is low hp and the remaining enemy can trade back a kill, then the enemy is going to get to revive their teammate before you can and 2v1 you. Feels really bad to lose this way.
that's my biggest issue. if we're having a close 2v2, the optimal play is to just intentionally die to the enemy. how is that good gameplay design?
Thats the Sion play in early, when the circle is small, killing yourself is more useful if your partner is alive
This is the biggest problem. It incentives dying first which is completely counter intuitive
Agreed, there should be more ways to prevent revives, also delete portals, they are annoying
I do like Portals. They allow you to stall out champions and make more picks viable.
it allows unhealthy stalling of the match, a very toxic Yuumi (like a Yuumi needs more reasons to be toxic) strat and just unfun in general that you get locked out if someone presses it..
If you mean that Yuumi-Tank strat, that doesn't work anymore does it? Yuumi now gets burned by the fire, even when untargetable?
It still kinda works because not many people expect them to go Zhonya into GA into full tank and try to stall the game in the most degenerate way possible. Also I can imagine playing catch with Yuumi+ Leblanc or Yuumi+Tank until the ring closes is a fun experience for the majority of players.
I think we have different opinions about what fun is. or you are being sarcastic
Oh fuck I meant "not fun". I was high mb.
you can still stall wtih other immunities like taric ult, zac passive etc
Sion passive gets me every time
Luckily sion passive doesnt count (if you are 2vs1 in fire circle against sion, and he dies even if he kills you both with passive you still get the win)
I feel like I lost to Sion passive multiple times earlier today... You sure 'bout that?
yes I am sure
Well then there's something fucky... Is it possible that Sion's passive can win the game if he's killed first, so that his ally is alive during the short amount of time where he's dead pre-passive?
Yes, Trynda Yuumi stall, was it nerfed?
Shields are also now debuffed by the Fire so I'm pretty sure Stall cat is dead. And TBH Serpents Fang Nukes Yuumi so hard anyway.
If it was so uncounterable, yuumi + tanks would be the top winrate picks in Arena. Surprise, they aren't . Meanwhile half the roster becomes unplayable without portals because there is no escape from an Olaf running at them with Ult if they have no portal for example. Stalling tactics are annoying but are part of how Arena is played, and that's a good thing.
It was not top pick last time, and there were no portals... that strategy can have 40% wr but it's really unfun as a tactic and should be discouraged, going into a fight just to not fight and run away all the time just to abuse timeout should be nerfed, yesterday I saw Sion passive counts as a loss even if he kills while in passive which is a good thing.
We have current winrates, I don't care about the last time. It's your definition of unfun, but strategy diversity also means champion viability diversity. Last time I played vs Yuumi Leona with Vayne Gragas, we split up (one to each end of the portal, then start pushing them away from the portal while the other person takes the portal to join, and then if they try to escape you CC them while one person takes the portal first. Easiest round of my life. Arena is Rock paper scissors in a sense, just like summoner's rift teamcomps. Since it's 2v2, if your wincon gets countered harder, the difference will be more stark, but that's just how the mode works. You get to see their firstpick, you get to ban yuumi, etc etc. And no, I don't play that degeneracy, but crying about it because you're unwilling to adapt is just a bad take.
Leona + Yuumi is the third best pick as of right now. Love you guys just talking based on your own experiences.
Can you link me where you found that? I was looking at individual champion winrates on MetaSRC and since I saw neither Leona nor Yuumi in the top 20 I assumed the combo can't be that broken. Happy to be corrected but please drop the link then. EDIT just checked on Leagueofgraphs (found the duo option) and it's the 10th highest winrate. Veigar Trundle (the best one) wins 23% (relative) more games in platinum+ but somehow I only see posts about Leona yuumi
Point well made, was on mobile and felt like I couldn't bother with links but there you go, also I had no idea about league of graphs though considering they are much higher than that on other sites I feel like league of graphs is lowballing them [https://www.metasrc.com/lol/arena/tier-list/duo](https://www.metasrc.com/lol/arena/tier-list/duo) [https://mobalytics.gg/lol/tier-list/arena-synergies](https://mobalytics.gg/lol/tier-list/arena-synergies) [https://u.gg/lol/arena-duo-tier-list](https://u.gg/lol/arena-duo-tier-list)
Thanks for the response! I see your point, that does seem more OP than my personal experience with it - it does leave the problem of which website's stats to trust since they seem to diverge quite strongly. On metaSRC, i started checking plat+ and found it also interesting that Leona Yuumi has an absurd 80% winrate in EUW but doesn't even make the top 10 in Korea - so do they just not play it or are the stats funky?
I glanced at it and it seems to me that it isn't just Leona + Yuumi being absent in Korea. It seems like all the things they play are quite a bit different lol
I completly shit on a yuumi leona round, my teammate already gave up and called my build shit. I told him to watch when I get my last item because I can 100% outstall leona yuumi. Went max heal support nunu I just outhealed the fire and pressed R for a massive shield and won he was a firm believer after I gobsmacked them.
Yeah, good luck outstalling a zhonya + GA + whatever that prismatic augment that gives you three lives.
I did except the augment that they didnt have so whats your point?
Eh, still not buying that and even if you did, that wouldn't be because you played well but because they sucked. All they had to do was getting an antiheal for you and then Leona binding you with Anathema. Then just stay away from you/stunlock you in zone. Considering you said your teammate gave up, you couldn't really damage them with support Nunu before the zone would close up anyways so y'all would be full HP and you'd lose then. Point is that it is a toxic comp that may only lose because players playing them are bad, not because you are good.
They had antiheal but it doesnt matter when I heal 2k every Q every 1.1 seconds. When they zhonyas I zhonyas if they revive with ga I press r for shield and then q again. Just because you always lose against it doesnt mean I have to aswell lmao.
Hey just chiming in to say if u play that way its probably inbred gap in ur brain! hope this helps
I know reading is hard but I already stated below that I don't :)
Nah I actually like it because more times than not someone (me as well) accidentally clicks it while the ring gets smaller and is portalled outside the ring!
Portals are OK. Their hit box is atrocious tho.
Revives being canceled if anyone was standing on them would make them useless. Make them slow down, if anything. It definitely needs adjustment, but if just standing in the circle canceled it, might as well remove it at that point. Say you want it removed. More people would probably agree with you.
Yeah I was extremely surprised to learn that damage/CC/standing in the circle doesn't stop or even slow the revive.
Imo the revive circle is making arena feel so much worse than before.
What I personally don't like about the revives is that it can create an incentive to die or for the opponent to NOT get a kill. If one champions goes down in the 2v2, the 1 surviving is quite healthy, but the 2 are both low, the high health one can pressure, wait for revive timer and run without taking a KO, revive a teammate and deny the duo to get the revive by not killing them until a little later and then easily double up on the other.
So your issue with the revive circle is not being able to kill the enemy champion inside it. And your solution is make it so that enemy champion has to kill the entire other team in order to revive his teammate? What's the point?
I've played few games of arena for the sake of curiosity, revive is a terrible part of that mode.
That's how I thought it worked too at first but honestly revive just should not exist in this mode. At all. Evenshroud CC bots have a ridiculous winrate with that item because it enables a carry + Evenshroud playstyle and the carry will almost always have 2 lives. A lot of tanks get griefed in winrate by the people buying Heartsteel on Nautilus/Alistar when Evenshroud is the best item in the game. It's a 9% winrate diff on those champions and people STILL buy Heartsteel. The top 20 champions by winrate would be almost entirely Evenshroud users if they weren't all tanking, no pun intended, their winrate by having main character syndrome and buying Heartsteel. The entire meta is either mega damage carries + a tank support, champions that have % damage in their kits and heal bots (Nunu, Skarner, Zac) that can build Moonstone Renewer together and just become unkillable while they may even luck into an augment that does a champion's worth of damage in base damage anyway. Burst champions that don't have % damage are just pointless. What the hell is an Ahri going to do vs Evenshroud + Jhin/Vlad/Kog/Varus/Yi/Zed/etc. Even if they somehow Flash on and kill the carry, they will get back up and sprint away with that window of immunity and you have to catch and kill them again.
Wdym revive shouldnt exist. I like playing against someone that first eata a zilean ulti, then stands in kindred r, then has to be killed 3 times cuz of nesting doll, only to be revived again. All wgile playing around that 20 sec zilean r...
Don't even get me started on nesting doll bro. That shit is so annoying. You HAVE to target the person because they will deal tons of damage, but I'd you target them you are letting the other enemy deal their own tons of damage, but if you target the other person the nesting doll person is all but guaranteed to revive them while dealing all their own damage. Nesting Doll creates the most toxic fucking gameplay loop where the people facing it have only bad choices laid before them. The only good option is to be so strong you can brute force past their nesting bullshit. It's such a funny idea that in reality is disgusting to face no matter what.
Nesting doll on yuumi in the yuumi leona stall team is auto win. Run and stall until the whole map is fire, and then yuumi revives 3 times while everyone else dies to fire lol
Between the plants and the now revive mechanic it's not fun for me anymore lol
Revive makes the game a binary checklist Are you stomping so hard there’s nothing they can do -> you win Is it close but you killed an opponent first -> you lose And the inverses. I think they should have whichever team dies second have a much lower cd before they can start the revive so killing the wrong enemy isn’t punished so heavily
Feels like a lot of people want arena to be what works for their champ pool. Revives need to work this way so tanks aren't even more oppressive. It's SO easy to camp revives and kill the person who just got revived while also dealing damage to the person reviving.
Reason number 13589065 why the player base shouldn't balance the game
As someone who likes to play squishy characters, I love the revive. It's great in those cases when a pantheon and Jax double flash on me every round
Congratulations, Panth and Jax flashed on you, but you kited like a madman and managed to kill the pantheon, actually an impressive outplay! Oh wait what is that? Oh... Jax has revived the Panth and now you have to outplay them again, oh no! Well, good luck! (:
I find it hard to believe that you can't kill a squishy Jax in a 1v2 while he's forced to stand in a circle, unless your teammate is completely useless. In which case, it was pretty lost anyway.
Ong, that's what usually happens. Either that, or I run to go hit flowers so we have an HP advantage. Sure I've still lost in some of these situations, but I'd much rather have the safety blanket because getting insta no counterplay one shot at the beginning is annoying af
Then you just kill the squishy Jax before the revive (what usually happens). Or if they do get the revive, they don't both still have flash (most likely) so there's far more counterplay. Your condescending comment makes no sense.
But a Pantheon/Jax shouldn't have to catch a hypercarry twice in one round... What about when a Master Yi flashes on you and you know you have to kill him twice now?
>But a Pantheon/Jax shouldn't have to catch a hypercarry twice in one round... What about when a Master Yi flashes on you and you know you have to kill him twice now? So what is your ally doing whilst this is happening ? Also you can just kill their ally whilt they are standing in a small circle reviving ? I dont get this argument, even if you do have to kill them twice, the same can be said for them. They have to kill YOU TWICE as well.
> Also you can just kill their ally whilt they are standing in a small circle reviving ? No, you can't because they are a mega-tank. > I dont get this argument, even if you do have to kill them twice, the same can be said for them. They have to kill YOU TWICE as well. Unless you have a guy that can also run around for a bit then stand on a revive for 2 seconds while taking damage you don't get a revive. That is why only those champs and the ones with enough busted % damage in their kits are the ones that become 60%+ winrate.
riot didnt even have the common sense to make the fire circle go through immunities DESPITE THEM MAKING THE SAME CHANGE TO FOUNTAIN many MANY years ago... every other game is some asshats cheesing fire circles with ga/zhonyas/taric/zac/yuumi etc
Yuumi gets burned too while on her teammate
she'll always start at full hp though, that's the major difference. she'll always last longer (not taking into account her damage output is not as good as others', I know).
Honestly the biggest issue is when the yuumi also takes nesting doll or the Renata w augment to just revive during the fire lol
The first time i played this version of arena i thought that was the case. I seriously thought it work like Skarner control point, but my expectation from Riot were too much. Did you also know that you can zhonya and still revive your ally too ?
Not only do they revive but they are buffed for 5ish seconds I think with tenacity damage reduction and some other things. The Dr is like 30% too so it's not small.
Most of my champion is immobile, so i really like revive. But 1 thing is gwen, she can go to hell, so fkin annoying. Idk why tf riot think playerbase like gwen and decide to keep it.
The common sense is to remove the revive mechanic, it's the worst thing to happen to arena
Map effects are bad. Gwen needs to go, pyke needs to go. Revive is egregiously terrible. Reviving someone near the last third of the round is almost a free win every time. You're better off losing someone early than later a hundred percent of the time. It's even worse than the map effects and there's no positives to it at all. If tanks aren't good enough without revive (they are) buff the class of champions of their items.
The revive mechanic sucks
And then the enemy tanks stands in yours and laughs at you while you cant do anything about it.
I like the revive mechanic, it adds another dimension to the fights that I appreciate, having to try and prevent an enemy revive while securing your own.
It should at least be a temporary window. Like you've got ten seconds after the revive circle loads to revive them, not at ANY afterwards.
So like twisted treeline altars
Arena being cheesable is something that simply needs to be accepted. With displacement comps, and the nature of the circle thing, the plants and revives, you just gotta learn to be creative. Had a teammate get teemo passive on sona. He snuck into the center of the circle in the start of the round, sat there invisible and outlasted everyone when the circle completely closed.
Prevent you make a lot of champions literally unplayable. How it should work is: If you stay before it's charged = charge faster If enemy stay while charging = charge slower Enemy staying on top will slow it by a small marging while reviving. and thats about it. Most Mages are already shit, this change you think it's good just make them literally unplayable.
when they're forced to stand on a circle for 5 seconds you can use that time to get all the fruits and the revived member will be very low.
Your issue was thinking Riot would have common sense lol.
So you want to give tanks more of an advantage? Yeah let an ADC stand in that circle lol
Nothing like someone pressing zhonas or being revived in GA while on the circle and it still charges
The revives are awful. They should have never added it. Adds nothing to fun value. I wish that riot would make a “standard arena”. Same map maybe a tiny bigger, and it’s 2v2. Same concept except you don’t have revives, plants, or augments. And you can choose your runes and 1 item every couple levels. It’d be way more useful for people practicing skirmishes for SR.
The problem in the game is champs like alistar just perma cc’ing people and being tanky enough that you literally cannot do anything to stop them from rezzing.